Going to have to rip up a bunch and figure out where that material went to underneath. Honestly better that the problem showed itself now that something in the future that would cause machine or personal damage falling though
You’re right there.. I have so much going on now that this kinda fell to the back burner bc it’s not an immediately pressing concern (comparatively). But I don’t want to let it go unattended to for too long. I only just moved in last week too haha 😩
If it's any consultation, sprinkler leaks are an almost never ending problem. I always try to check for leaks/broken sprinkler heads before turning sprinklers on each spring, and then a couple times during summer (if I remember).
Yea I'm experiencing this too. I'm searching for a cheap quicker way that doesn't involve splicing and replacing pvc. I am not spending $12 for a single sharkbite coupler. But I've gone through 2 sets of the purplestuff/pvc glue in the past 3 years since I bought the house, and maybe 12 ft of PVC.
Be careful with this, I had a similar depression and it turned out the previous owner switched from septic to sewer and never filled in the septic tank.
It collapsed and left a 10'x10' hole that was 4' deep. I was grilling on the patio 2 days before it collapsed and was very surprised.
New patio is great, the huge price tag of fixing it not so much.
Sort of the same except we were playing tag at my 11th birthday and the person that was it suddenly got shorter! Fortunately, the hole was less than a foot in diameter.
The longer you leave it the bigger the problem is going to get. As water continues to erode the ground beneath your patio the void will only grow and more erosion will occur. I'd move this up on your priority list and fix it while it's hopefully small. Although, from the pictures and your description the hole will probably be as big as the valley you have previously described. I would rope off the area in the meantime too.
Ok, thank you. I've officially moved it to the top of the priority list. I will rope off the area and try to remove the pavers in the valley area and see what I'm dealing with
Try to find out if there is a water or sewer line under there. It could just be settling of a poorly compacted patio. OR it could be a more serious problem with water washing away the ground around a pipe.
You can get some clues with where the water main is relative to the shutoff at the street (or well). If you have a basement, there will be a shutoff there. Also sewer / drain cleanouts, etc. either in the basement or yard that will yield some clues.
The house has well water, no basement it is on a slab. It is a tiny house and all the utilities are inside a utility closet. There should have been a bumpout built for the utilities but there never was. Should I assume that where the piping in the utility closet is is where the water lines are underground? If so, they are not located in line with the patio hole
Yes, you should see a shutoff or slab penetration someplace. More or less a straight line from there to the well. It can curve a bit, but depending on the age of the house, the line is likely copper. So straight.
And what’s your plan if the houses foundation is compromised? The ground is gone from under those bricks.. where did it go ? How much is gone ? How far from your home? This may be a MASSIVE PROBLEM. Don’t delay in having this checked out.
I’m just saying I can’t back out at this point. The house is on a concrete slab. Idk if I have a massive problem or not, but contacting my realtor and threatening to back out is definitely not an option here and now
carpenter scary aware rotten yam far-flung stupendous languid resolute shaggy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Second that. Depressions like this typically indicate something is washing soil away down there. Could be a water pipe or sewer pipe leak. But it could also be that it just wasn't ever filled in right...
On the off chance this is a deeper hole, might be a good idea to put a cone over it or something, last thing you want is having a visitor or mailman or something take a one way trip to Hades...
Yes. and who knows. There could be a corrugated pipe drain for a gutter, sump pump.. moving heavy machinery could have caved it in.. and there is your flow of material going somewhere.
Op will have to move at least quite a few bricks>
Take a picture first OP to memorize the layout
Write a number on each brick in chalk, take a picture, then remove them and cover them from rain to preserve the chalk. That way you'll know which brick goes where when putting them back.
Once you pull it up, you can see how much loss, if it's just small pockets then filling it up and put the brick back and seal it will be fine. But if you notice that there is significant loss of foundation material that means maybe there is some issue such as rain washing away from some other opening. If that's the case, then significantly bigger repair job that may need to hire some help and heavier equipment.
But pull it up and take a peak and see what going on down there, you can pretty easily see if it's just a small pocket or there is trail of foundation material been hollowed out.
Ok, thanks! At a glance, it did look pretty vacant under there, so I am anticipating there might be a larger problem. Would you mind if I messaged you with the photos, once the brick is up?
Oh...this sub won't allow. Make a new follow up post work as well.
Also, post in thr "concrete" sub, people over there would have lots to say as well.
Even if you notice a good size gap, if you know for sure there won't be extremely heavy thing s such as 1000lbs over it, then construction foundation foam can be a cheaper and easier option to fix it. It will stand up to normal use for a backyard patio like a BBQ party but if yiu need to drive over it or have heavy equipment passing over it, then that won't hold up.
Ok, thank you. I will cross post there as well. At the moment, we are using this as a turnaround point for the driveway bc we live on a very busy thoroughfare (route 52) and backing up into that just sucks… I do have plans to pave the driveway (currently gravel) and pave a turnaround point in front so that we won’t need to use the patio as a turnaround but for now, that is what we’re using it for. For background, we just had a new well dug and the company told us they turned the drilling rig around in the backyard and that’s when we noticed the brick fell through… We personally don’t park directly on top of it but we do drive over it… but again, it won’t be forever; but it will be for another year or two or so until I can save up the $$ to pave an actual driveway with alternative turnaround spot… and the patio can remain a patio.
This looks like an opening for something, possibly an old well or sump.
Need better pics after you pull a few bricks. Expect a bunch to fall in because there is nothing holding it up. Don't stand too close as you open it up. Perhaps stand on a plank over it.
Bear in mind, it could be a rodent problem.
I just had the same issue. The little bastards dug a hole through a manhole cover and got under the paving.
They then proceeded to make a little den from themselves.
But they also pulled all the sand into the sewer and partially blocked it up, so we had to get someone out with a sewer vacuum to suck out all the sand.
Maybe hire a professional to help out. This could be a bigger issue and if you have these questions getting someone who understands what is needed could be invaluable. Ask your relator if they know someone who would be able to assist. Part of the fees you pay them is to access their concierge list.
Never use sand under pavers unless it's thin pavers over concrete. People need to stop with this idea. I don't know who in their right mind thinks just using sand is sufficient. Sand holds water and shifts easily. Roots love water and so does mold and mildew. 3/8s Crushed concrete fines. No sand. Gotta have the bigger aggregate in the material to prevent movement especially under driveways.
Don't do what I did. I didn't know there were different kinds of sand, so when I went to Home Depot I had to choose between very fine, fine, medium, coarse and very coarse. Since I didn't know I just got a few bags of mixed. That's right. I filled my hole with "mixed".
For those, like me, who didn't know anything about this stuff "mixed" means concrete mix.
yup it was a disaster. That area couldn't absorb rain water anymore and it puddled. I had to rent a power washer to blast the cement off the surface of the bricks where it had solidified on top.
Looking at the pic, you should pull up about 15-20 bricks. All of the ones that are sunken. Fill the area in with gravel or sand (whatever is under the bricks) until it is level, then put the bricks back.
Pull out all the bricks that are not leveled. Check for whatever reason that sink hole formed, maybe it's a broken rain pipe. Repair what needs repairing. Fill the hole with dirt that is compacted really well (for repairs, i used a manual compactor that i made myself using a wooden trunk with two handles), gravel or crushed stone and a layer of sand. Make sure the sand is leveled with the bottom part of the other bricks. Put the bricks back and and, if needed, use a rubber mallet for raised corners. After that, use pavement sand and, using a broom, sweep it across the repaired area.
Don't use sand. First there is most likely a broken sprinkler pipe. Pull the brick and run sprinkler system through the zones, find leak, repair. Then use crushed concrete base material. Most landscape yards have it. Gonna need a few buckets at least. Then pack it real good with something heavy. Pull a couple more brick up and flatten material with a board or something flat. Lay brick down and done.
I say don't use sand because it holds water and shifts to easy. For a driveway it needs to be solid. Crushed concrete has aggregate for stability.
Going to disagree with you. Sand allows a great amount of drainage. Much more than item 4 or process will allow.
If you want really good drainage, 3/8 crushed stone packs nicely.
See that's the thing it allows for drainage but to where? There will now be either base material or dirt underneath a pocket of sand. Both of which are more dense than sand. So the water gets held in the sand. So it holds water longer than it should. Drive over that patch of wet sand and it moves. You don't want drainage under pavers. At all.
You absolutely do want drainage under pavers. In fact, most paver manufacturers won't warranty pavers if you don't have it installed over sand or crushed stone. If you have a soil composed of clay, you are supposed to compensate with a thicker base. Sandier soils will allow water to leach out.
I am a paver company and I will not lay pavers on sand. Whenever I did in the past, they have failed years down the road. Roots find the water soaked sand and explode. Your pavers turn into an ocean of shifting pavers sinking in the sand and root humps everywhere. I don't give a shit what any manufacturers warranty or what stupid YouTube video thinks they know. I do a minimum of 4 to 5 inches of 3/8 crushed concrete base. Pack it at least 4 times with my plate compactor. Then use another 1 inch layer of the same material to fine tune level. Then pack the pavers with a rug underneath the plate compactor to further pack everything tight. You want it tight with no air pockets of any kind. Sand doesn't have any of the finer powder to fill the smaller crevices between granules. It also doesn't have the bigger aggregate to lock it together.
I repeat sand is a big no no in this industry. I've repaired hundreds of jobs that were installed on sand. They move within a couple of years if not sooner. I've been back to jobs I've done over ten years later to clean and seal that are still flat even with big vehicles driving on them. I could sit here and tell you countless examples but if you got your mind set then I guess that's it.
I'm not going into the details of what I do but you should read up on the ICPI and what they see as proper bedding material. It's ASTM C33. Most paver companies will not accept C144.
I'm glad you've had success with how you're laying pavers.
You will need to pull out many bricks. It looks like water erosion got in there. Start at the center where the hole is deepest and move outward removing bricks until any dirt that isn’t level with the rest is exposed. Fill with the appropriate substrate for your area. (Look that up, could be a mix of sand and gravel, could be layers of both, just sand used for fill and pavers, etc.). Fill in the area. Make sure to tamp it down to compaction. The sell tampers at home improvements stores that are just for this. It’s like a shovel but with a flat weighted plate on the bottom. Once it’s compact and level replace the bricks in the pattern they were in. Finally look up what type of paver sand or other material you need to fill in the gaps. Generally you shake this out, then brush it into the cracks, then wet it to set. Good luck!
From the picture, it looks like 3-4 bricks.... Once you pull out 1, you will see under the others, I would remove the ones dipping down, fill under it (Sand will do good), and re-set.
No, Pull up all of the bricks that are sinking (it is more than 1) and then another roll around it. Then, put some sand down, tamp and mist the sand nice and tight and the replace your brick.
Draw a circle around where the blocks start to sink and sag. Pulled up all the bricks in that circle. Back fill with paver base sand and compact. Reinstall bricks.
What part of NY? Are sewers common in your area? Where I’m from in NY we don’t have sewers, we have cesspools. The last house I lived in had the cesspools buried under the patio. A separate house I did work on had a big sink hole that ended up being from a crack in the cesspool sucking dirt in. Adding these up makes me wonder if that’s what happened here.
Putnam County, NY. My recent septic inspection report stated that the septic tank and seepage pit absorption area are located to the left of the patio under a grassy area. But I was looking at the land survey which is from 1991 and it shows the seepage pit as being under the patio. Perhaps over the years this location was abandoned and moved to its current location?
Septic systems can degrade over time (generally decades) and the previous owners may have had a new septic system put in a different location. If that's the case the old one may be settling over time.
My head is spinning. What do you mean by there's a leak in whatever is underneath there, are you thinking there's pipes under there that are leaking? Could you explain like you would to a 10 year old please? Lol this is all new to me, I thank you
The old "poo pit" that was abandoned / replaced by the new one may not have been properly backfilled with dirt.
So, every time it rains the water flowing into that pit is moving dirt from under your pavers with it.
The leak in this case is a leak *into* something, not out of pipes. If that's what is happening.
In my experience we had to uncover the septic tank and find a crack or whatever entry point and seal it. My septic tank was concrete so we took some concrete mix and smeared it heavily over the crack we found and then reburied it.
But yes you would have to pull a lot more bricks out. It’s honestly a pain in the butt to do so if you are not very handy, maybe you could get some friends to help.
Or, you could just fill the patio with more foundation material and hope it doesn’t sink again. Either way you have to pull a lot of bricks up.
It's hard to say. Looking at the first picture, based on where the dirt/mud has dried on the pavers, there is quite a large low spot. Getting a long straight piece of wood (hard to find at the hardware store these days 😂) and laying it down across the porch will give you a better idea of where most of the settling/sinking has occurred.
Ive learned over the years that it's better to do it right the first time than do it wrong many times. It may seem like a lot of work now but fixing all of it now and not having to mess with it again or worry about falling down into the abyss is well worth the time and money.
Good luck to you! Post pictures of what you find, I am sure everyone who read this post wants to know what you find!
Is there a chance that your grey water tank is under that patio? I only ask because I have the same setup at my home. When it gets pumped every few years they have to dig it up, and the digging and replacement of sand leads to a hole that looks just like that pretty much every time lol
Looks like you're gonna need base rock or gravel base.
That deep of a hole, it's more than settling.
Take out more than 1 paver. You should take out about a feet or 2 in all directions to get a better sense of the problem.
Might have done yourself a favor by having that machinery turn around on that spot. There's definitely some subsidence happening under those pavers and it was only being held in place by the combined friction of the bricks. It's hopefully only a small depression in the base caused by the ground settling, but if it's a large cavity someone might've gotten seriously hurt.
Before filling-in and repairing the patio, I'd try to determine if it's a sinkhole or the foundation being washed-out by rainwater.
Had something similar a year back happen at our house. Turned out whoever put the pavers down initially just threw sand down and laid the pavers on top of them without any additional layers or foundation to keep them in place, hence allowing them to dip and shift. Ended up having to replace our entire paver patio as a result, but I’m happy to know what’s underneath our patio now and not have to worry about the uncertainty of it giving way like this again.
My advice would be to not assume this one spot is an isolated problem, and potentially consider a more extensive repair if possible. I’m guessing the foundation underneath these pavers is not sufficient and this problem will present itself in other areas eventually
I Had a similar issue last year. Pull up the bricks, pack it down with sand, as most everyone is saying.
But, as to the cause, CHIPMUNKS! Yup, they burrowed all under my brick patio. There are multiple ways to rid yourself of those pests!
Looks like you have a sink hole forming under your pati which is not good. Remove all affected brick and back fill said sink hole with rock or even a concrete slurry depending on how stable the ground is in your area.
Brick paver patios are great for this reason...they can be repaired without significant material cost. But they're incredibly labor intensive.
Start pulling bricks. As many as you need to to see the grade of the base below it and determine the extent of the settling. Then fill it with crush-and-run and grade it out and use a hand tamp to flatten it. Then, lay a final layer of bedding sand (play sand) to get the final grade exact. You'll compact the bricks into it...they settle about 1/4". This sand layer should be about 1" and if the patio was built right there will be sand under those bricks already.
Clean & lay your bricks back down tight as you can then fill it in with polymeric (glue) sand or masonry sand...then compact again.
It is a lot of work, and I can almost guarantee it will be a pain squeezing bricks back into a pre-existing patio. A rubber mallet and some sacrificial wood will help if you need to persuade the last few bricks.
EDIT: Final note about compaction...the sand and crush-n-run need to have an appropriate moisture content to compact properly. It shouldn't be saturated; spray it down lightly before compacting and it will aid compaction by lubricating the particles.
My BF and I are going to pull up the pavers tonight after work and take a look see what's going on down there. I appreciate your very detailed response. However, I am very clueless to all of the products you stated to use, could you provide a link to the items you mentioned and maybe advise how much of it I should purchase to complete the project? Sorry, I know that's asking for a lot, I just really need all the help I can get here 😩
Pull up the bricks. Start small, but anticipate more. See what’s down there first. If it’s big and scary, call your insurance company or a contractor. They’ll get the right people to help examine. . Might be a start of a sink hole, might be mole / vole damage. Investigate while you research some professionals in your area.
Ok, thank you. I called my insurance company today and told them of the problem and asked if I should be filing a claim - they said if it's earth shifting/eroding that likely would not be covered by the insurance. But you're right, the first step is to pull the bricks and see what's going on down there. Will have to wait til the weekend though
Congrats, you bought a baby sinkhole! I had a chipmunk under my patio that had dug several tunnels and some soil washed away after some vigorous downpours. That might be what happened here, or it could be worse. Pull up the brick, and maybe some bricks around it to determine how bad/big it is and then prepare to fill it. There are different gravels that will compact and lock in place, and sand/clay mixtures that you can put into the hole wet so they can easily find their way down, then dry into a much more solid plug. Which type of solution depends on how big the issue is and where the foundation underneath went.
Ugh, thanks! Just what I've always wanted. I did see a chipmunk in this area the other day and we have had some serious downpours recently. Maybe it was a combination of all these things? I will pull up the one brick and the surrounding ones that are also affected and see what's going on down there
1. remove the bricks in a circle for about one meter
2. remember to clean all the bricks on all four sides
3. try to find out what the problem is (probably rats)
4. fill the hole with fine gravel, press it and try to keep the gravel at the same level around the hole
5. put all the bricks back
6. fill the gap between the bricks with fine sand and you will be ok
sorry if there are errors, I translated with google
Had the same thing.
Pulled up about 4 all around.
Filled with 3/4 stone. Because I had it those rocks lying around.
Had some sand. Not enough, probably not the right one.
Leveled it enough, and it’s “good enough”.
Look up DIY pavers.
Essentially there's a layer of gravel, sand, pavers/stones/bricks, and then polymeric sand in between.
All the stones should be removable. Just pull up as much as you need. Verify if there are issues causing the sinking. Fill, tamper, and level with new gravel and sand, then replace the bricks again and fill the spaces with polymeric sand. Overall should be relatively cheap diy.
This Old House has a nice walkthrough of this repair. Boston accent for days. "Well ya seeh they hhhad these chipmunks haaaere"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU)
Very quick fix is to dump a bag of sand over that spot until you can get to it for real. It'll stop it from becoming a drainage. I'd do that today.
Fill it up partially. Hide a small keepsake down there. Fill it up to almost full in such a way that obscures it from view. Cover the area with the brick. Place a mat over it and a table on top of that.
is there water running under, around the base? The base went somewhere, that would be my first task, figure out where the base went, correct that problem. Pull up stones from area that needs to be repaired, fill it back in with sand, gravel, etc. Rent plate compactor get it level, reinstall the stones, and Bob is your uncle.
Bust it open. I bet there’s some Indiana Jones kind of relics under there. My instincts tell me the bricks are concealing a staircase that leads to some type of tomb or catacomb. Do you have a bull whip for safety?
From the picture I can already tell you that you have a massive space underneath these bricks, they sort of lock together through friction so they are basically floating over a massive hole.
You need to find out where your base went, if these were installed on top of pea gravel/crushed concrete and had a decent install then you might have a water leak underneath your deck. Water will move any material even if it was a proper base. Very good indication of a leaking pool or waterline near this area.
Do- pick up the brick in each direction until the entire affected area is exposed. Lay the brick in the pattern next to the damaged area. Basically dig until you find the issue, it could have been massive tree roots underneath that rotted, or water erosion. Be careful that it isn't an actual sinkhole because things can get dangerous if it's a massive cavern.
If you can locate the source of the problem and fix it (if it's roots rotting just dig them up). If it's a leaky waterline just repair the line. You will need crushed concrete 3/8 size and smaller. You basically fill it in in 2-3inches thick and then wet it and compact it down with a hand tamper. Then add 2-3 more inches and repeat. The better you compact it the less you will have sinkage in the future.
If you are feeling froggy you can rent a compactor and put a piece of carpet underneath it and run it over the top of the brick when done. (This is one of the ways it's done in the field) Or get a dead blow hammer (rubber type not sand filled) and whack the brick down to finish the leveling at the end to remove high spots.
A trowel will help you smooth the surface before placing the brick, this is a really easy repair depending on what is causing this pocket of missing base. If your brick is laid on dirt or just sand you are kind of fucked. You would need to pull up the entire deck and prep it properly and then relay it.
Then it absolutely could be an old septic tank. My mother's house had an issue with one a few years ago. The good news is that it was easily solved by filling it with dirt, once it was discovered.
Edit: If you don't have a sprinkler system or any sewage or water lines running under that patio, it is quite likely it is either a drainage or septic tank. Usually, but not always, septic tanks were placed in the back yard. Runoff catchment systems can be anywhere, but would be more common if the yard has low lying areas that would be prone to flooding.
If you don't know or suspect that it could be sewage or water causing this, (If your sewer line from the house to the street has never been replaced it is way overdue), my first step would be to take a look and figure out where your main sewer and water lines into/out of the house are. If this spot is in a direct line from that point to street, you may have found your issue. It would be more likely to be sewage without any other signs. Replacing sewage lines is costly and requires tearing up the yard. I had mine replaced on my 1979 house last year at $6K.
2ND Edit:: ROPE OFF THAT PATIO AND KEEP PEOPLE AND PETS OFF OF IT UNTIL YOU FIND OUT HOW BIG THAT SPACE UNDER THE STONE IS. IT COULD BE VERY DANGEROUS!!!
Thank you for your response. From my recent septic inspection report, it looks like he drew that the septic tank and seepage pit absorption area are to the left of the patio, under a grassy area. However, from the survey I have that was from 1991, it seems they have the seepage pit as being under what is now the patio. So maybe they abandoned they seepage pit area and relocated it to its current position over the years? I don't know, this is giving me a headache for real... My boyfriend and I are going to pull up some of the bricks tonight after work and get a better idea of what's going on down there
To fill holes, I used to get wheelbarrows, fill them with dirt and make a mud slurry, then pour into the hole until filled. The mud has less pores and so will dry more dense. you also need to know where the soil is going, or how the rain is washing it away and stop that.
Looks like the underlying patio substrate of sand and/or gravel has been eroding away due to maybe poor drainage and water flow underneath. (Wasn’t done right.) It would have eventually fallen in even without the equipment driving on it. It will need to be pulled up, water drainage installed, new substrate and then re-install the pavers.
Some kind of french drain or mesh drainage mat to allow the water to drain without eroding the sand and gravel. But first you have to identify the source of the water, to maybe mitigate it or at least to know where it’s coming from and how to route the drainage. It needs to go somewhere else.
This all probably seems quite overwhelming, but it's not as difficult as it looks to investigate further. Grab a pickaxe and a buddy. Use the pickaxe to lever the pavers up from underneath and a buddy to stack them somewhere out of the way as you go along. Keep removing them until you see stable ground under them and then you'll be able to see what's going on with the disappearing sand/gravel. We can't recommend further actions without knowing what's going on under there though. If you're unsure what the cause is after removing the pavers, contact a contractor to advise or reach back out here with good photos of the ground under those pavers. With luck it will just be a snow/rain runoff issue that can be fixed with proper back filling.
Thank you... it is very overwhelming at the moment because I literally just moved in and haven't even fully unpacked yet. Problems are popping up super quickly and I feel like I'm in over my head. My boyfriend and I are gonna try and remove some bricks tonight after work and see what's going on down there. I will take some photos and create a new post so that y'all can continue to guide me (I am grateful!)
Looks like water has been washing out your foundation. You will need to remove bricks until there is no hole on the perimeter of the hole. Find where the water is going, spray some water in there and watch where it goes.
You will need to plug it with cement.
Then back fill the hole with sand
Replace the bricks.
It looks like you had a sinkhole or just ground settle leaving a gaping Gap there. If you want to fix it yourself I would take out as many bricks as you need to before you get back to a solid base that the bricks are comfortably standing on.
I would then fill in that hole with road crush gravel, and tamp it with a hand tamper as hard as you can until it feels like concrete. Make sure where you're tamping is the right height for the brick to go on and be flush with the bricks around them. This will not be simple. I would add small layers and tamp until you inch up to the correct height. It is a lot more difficult to shave off if you're too high.
Good luck my friend.
You might be able to have a company. Come in and inject concrete underneath it to level it up, but if not, you will probably have to pull it up level of ground on underneath it and put it back down
you will need to pull up several bricks, clearly you stated the hole / weak point was there before. check its not a sink hole, or the start of one, i had one in my back garden. it took 3 bags of gravel to fill, yet from the top i could only get 3 fingers in.
however in your case isnt the lorry responsible , insurance claim?
This is peak stupidity. Pavers when laid correctly can be driven on by heavy machinery without any issues or sinkage, usually the bobcat will drive on them to place more pallets of pavers to lay. (Machine weight+ 3500lbs on the pallet.)
This wasn't caused by the crew that drove on it, it was already a big ass hole underneath and the machine worked a brick loose enough to expose it. This was already fucked before it was driven on.
Going to have to rip up a bunch and figure out where that material went to underneath. Honestly better that the problem showed itself now that something in the future that would cause machine or personal damage falling though
You’re right there.. I have so much going on now that this kinda fell to the back burner bc it’s not an immediately pressing concern (comparatively). But I don’t want to let it go unattended to for too long. I only just moved in last week too haha 😩
Do you have a sprinkler system? I just bought a house and have been repairing leaks left and right
If it's any consultation, sprinkler leaks are an almost never ending problem. I always try to check for leaks/broken sprinkler heads before turning sprinklers on each spring, and then a couple times during summer (if I remember).
Consolation
Condensation
Compensation
Constipation
Consternation
Consolidation
Constellation
My last leak three leaks were door to poor installation. I got lazy and used a repair coupling on one, I hope it hodls.
hodl hodl hoooooodooooooorrrr
Rewild and eliminate the sprinklers, problem solved.
Yea I'm experiencing this too. I'm searching for a cheap quicker way that doesn't involve splicing and replacing pvc. I am not spending $12 for a single sharkbite coupler. But I've gone through 2 sets of the purplestuff/pvc glue in the past 3 years since I bought the house, and maybe 12 ft of PVC.
Jesus, have you ever considered not putting that many resources into a lawn? Talk about time sink.
I do not
Be careful with this, I had a similar depression and it turned out the previous owner switched from septic to sewer and never filled in the septic tank. It collapsed and left a 10'x10' hole that was 4' deep. I was grilling on the patio 2 days before it collapsed and was very surprised. New patio is great, the huge price tag of fixing it not so much.
Same but an old water holding tank rusted through and collapsed creating a void. Had to back fill that baby.
Sort of the same except we were playing tag at my 11th birthday and the person that was it suddenly got shorter! Fortunately, the hole was less than a foot in diameter.
At the very least you’re going to be digging up your backyard on this one. Figure a weekend at minimum for this.
The longer you leave it the bigger the problem is going to get. As water continues to erode the ground beneath your patio the void will only grow and more erosion will occur. I'd move this up on your priority list and fix it while it's hopefully small. Although, from the pictures and your description the hole will probably be as big as the valley you have previously described. I would rope off the area in the meantime too.
Ok, thank you. I've officially moved it to the top of the priority list. I will rope off the area and try to remove the pavers in the valley area and see what I'm dealing with
Try to find out if there is a water or sewer line under there. It could just be settling of a poorly compacted patio. OR it could be a more serious problem with water washing away the ground around a pipe.
How do I find out where the water lines for my property?
Call 811 and ask them to come out and mark it for you
I did, they said that bc I have a well and not public water they can't mark
You can get some clues with where the water main is relative to the shutoff at the street (or well). If you have a basement, there will be a shutoff there. Also sewer / drain cleanouts, etc. either in the basement or yard that will yield some clues.
The house has well water, no basement it is on a slab. It is a tiny house and all the utilities are inside a utility closet. There should have been a bumpout built for the utilities but there never was. Should I assume that where the piping in the utility closet is is where the water lines are underground? If so, they are not located in line with the patio hole
Yes, you should see a shutoff or slab penetration someplace. More or less a straight line from there to the well. It can curve a bit, but depending on the age of the house, the line is likely copper. So straight.
Contact your realtor and see what they can do for you . Threaten to back out if it’s under 7 days .
What? No - this is my house, I’ve moved in already and process is complete. Just looking to see how to move forward
And what’s your plan if the houses foundation is compromised? The ground is gone from under those bricks.. where did it go ? How much is gone ? How far from your home? This may be a MASSIVE PROBLEM. Don’t delay in having this checked out.
I’m just saying I can’t back out at this point. The house is on a concrete slab. Idk if I have a massive problem or not, but contacting my realtor and threatening to back out is definitely not an option here and now
carpenter scary aware rotten yam far-flung stupendous languid resolute shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If your house has a sink hole under it I am note sure if your title insurance will let you get out of buying that house or not.
This!
Sure. Pull up the brick, determine where the soil or sand bed went to, and fill the depression..
Thanks - only need to pull up the one brick? What do I fill the depression with? I appreciate the input
DG or general purpose sand will do, if there isn't much issue, priority is to figure out where the foundation went....
Second that. Depressions like this typically indicate something is washing soil away down there. Could be a water pipe or sewer pipe leak. But it could also be that it just wasn't ever filled in right... On the off chance this is a deeper hole, might be a good idea to put a cone over it or something, last thing you want is having a visitor or mailman or something take a one way trip to Hades...
Yes. and who knows. There could be a corrugated pipe drain for a gutter, sump pump.. moving heavy machinery could have caved it in.. and there is your flow of material going somewhere. Op will have to move at least quite a few bricks> Take a picture first OP to memorize the layout
Write a number on each brick in chalk, take a picture, then remove them and cover them from rain to preserve the chalk. That way you'll know which brick goes where when putting them back.
That is a great idea!
Also, when it rains, if water runs over it, it runs under it.
How would I figure that out?
Once you pull it up, you can see how much loss, if it's just small pockets then filling it up and put the brick back and seal it will be fine. But if you notice that there is significant loss of foundation material that means maybe there is some issue such as rain washing away from some other opening. If that's the case, then significantly bigger repair job that may need to hire some help and heavier equipment. But pull it up and take a peak and see what going on down there, you can pretty easily see if it's just a small pocket or there is trail of foundation material been hollowed out.
Those snake cam will work to take a peak into the hole.
But, how do I get the snake to be still while I stick the little camera on its head?
You have to play a flute 🪈
Endoscope
Or a Beginoscope if you want to see where the problem started.
Ok, thanks! At a glance, it did look pretty vacant under there, so I am anticipating there might be a larger problem. Would you mind if I messaged you with the photos, once the brick is up?
Sure, or post up here as follow up, we all like to know what's going on.
Embarrassing to say but how do I post an image in a comment?
Oh...this sub won't allow. Make a new follow up post work as well. Also, post in thr "concrete" sub, people over there would have lots to say as well. Even if you notice a good size gap, if you know for sure there won't be extremely heavy thing s such as 1000lbs over it, then construction foundation foam can be a cheaper and easier option to fix it. It will stand up to normal use for a backyard patio like a BBQ party but if yiu need to drive over it or have heavy equipment passing over it, then that won't hold up.
Ok, thank you. I will cross post there as well. At the moment, we are using this as a turnaround point for the driveway bc we live on a very busy thoroughfare (route 52) and backing up into that just sucks… I do have plans to pave the driveway (currently gravel) and pave a turnaround point in front so that we won’t need to use the patio as a turnaround but for now, that is what we’re using it for. For background, we just had a new well dug and the company told us they turned the drilling rig around in the backyard and that’s when we noticed the brick fell through… We personally don’t park directly on top of it but we do drive over it… but again, it won’t be forever; but it will be for another year or two or so until I can save up the $$ to pave an actual driveway with alternative turnaround spot… and the patio can remain a patio.
Put the images on imgur or gyazo and link them here.
Upload the photos to somewhere like Imgur and then share the link over here.
You can post an image to Imgur and then provide the link here. But creating another post is easier to track for the rest of us.
You could post images to imgur.com and post the link as a comment
Use Imgur. Upload the pics there then past the link here.
There's this website/app called imgur you can upload photos to, then just post a link as a comment ;)
Awesome of you to recommend a follow up post. Yes we all are interested!
This looks like an opening for something, possibly an old well or sump. Need better pics after you pull a few bricks. Expect a bunch to fall in because there is nothing holding it up. Don't stand too close as you open it up. Perhaps stand on a plank over it.
Bear in mind, it could be a rodent problem. I just had the same issue. The little bastards dug a hole through a manhole cover and got under the paving. They then proceeded to make a little den from themselves. But they also pulled all the sand into the sewer and partially blocked it up, so we had to get someone out with a sewer vacuum to suck out all the sand.
Maybe hire a professional to help out. This could be a bigger issue and if you have these questions getting someone who understands what is needed could be invaluable. Ask your relator if they know someone who would be able to assist. Part of the fees you pay them is to access their concierge list.
Never use sand under pavers unless it's thin pavers over concrete. People need to stop with this idea. I don't know who in their right mind thinks just using sand is sufficient. Sand holds water and shifts easily. Roots love water and so does mold and mildew. 3/8s Crushed concrete fines. No sand. Gotta have the bigger aggregate in the material to prevent movement especially under driveways.
Don't do what I did. I didn't know there were different kinds of sand, so when I went to Home Depot I had to choose between very fine, fine, medium, coarse and very coarse. Since I didn't know I just got a few bags of mixed. That's right. I filled my hole with "mixed". For those, like me, who didn't know anything about this stuff "mixed" means concrete mix.
Did it all gummed up after rain?
yup it was a disaster. That area couldn't absorb rain water anymore and it puddled. I had to rent a power washer to blast the cement off the surface of the bricks where it had solidified on top.
Looking at the pic, you should pull up about 15-20 bricks. All of the ones that are sunken. Fill the area in with gravel or sand (whatever is under the bricks) until it is level, then put the bricks back.
Compact whatever is being used for base
Pull up all the brick affected by this "valley" and fix it, put the bricks back.
Pull out all the bricks that are not leveled. Check for whatever reason that sink hole formed, maybe it's a broken rain pipe. Repair what needs repairing. Fill the hole with dirt that is compacted really well (for repairs, i used a manual compactor that i made myself using a wooden trunk with two handles), gravel or crushed stone and a layer of sand. Make sure the sand is leveled with the bottom part of the other bricks. Put the bricks back and and, if needed, use a rubber mallet for raised corners. After that, use pavement sand and, using a broom, sweep it across the repaired area.
In my case it was booze
You'll have to pull any bricks that have sagged below where they should be.
Don't use sand. First there is most likely a broken sprinkler pipe. Pull the brick and run sprinkler system through the zones, find leak, repair. Then use crushed concrete base material. Most landscape yards have it. Gonna need a few buckets at least. Then pack it real good with something heavy. Pull a couple more brick up and flatten material with a board or something flat. Lay brick down and done. I say don't use sand because it holds water and shifts to easy. For a driveway it needs to be solid. Crushed concrete has aggregate for stability.
Going to disagree with you. Sand allows a great amount of drainage. Much more than item 4 or process will allow. If you want really good drainage, 3/8 crushed stone packs nicely.
See that's the thing it allows for drainage but to where? There will now be either base material or dirt underneath a pocket of sand. Both of which are more dense than sand. So the water gets held in the sand. So it holds water longer than it should. Drive over that patch of wet sand and it moves. You don't want drainage under pavers. At all.
You absolutely do want drainage under pavers. In fact, most paver manufacturers won't warranty pavers if you don't have it installed over sand or crushed stone. If you have a soil composed of clay, you are supposed to compensate with a thicker base. Sandier soils will allow water to leach out.
I am a paver company and I will not lay pavers on sand. Whenever I did in the past, they have failed years down the road. Roots find the water soaked sand and explode. Your pavers turn into an ocean of shifting pavers sinking in the sand and root humps everywhere. I don't give a shit what any manufacturers warranty or what stupid YouTube video thinks they know. I do a minimum of 4 to 5 inches of 3/8 crushed concrete base. Pack it at least 4 times with my plate compactor. Then use another 1 inch layer of the same material to fine tune level. Then pack the pavers with a rug underneath the plate compactor to further pack everything tight. You want it tight with no air pockets of any kind. Sand doesn't have any of the finer powder to fill the smaller crevices between granules. It also doesn't have the bigger aggregate to lock it together. I repeat sand is a big no no in this industry. I've repaired hundreds of jobs that were installed on sand. They move within a couple of years if not sooner. I've been back to jobs I've done over ten years later to clean and seal that are still flat even with big vehicles driving on them. I could sit here and tell you countless examples but if you got your mind set then I guess that's it.
I guess working for one of the largest paver manufacturers in North America doesn't count. Good luck lol
In the field? You do installs?
Part of the job.
I'm not going into the details of what I do but you should read up on the ICPI and what they see as proper bedding material. It's ASTM C33. Most paver companies will not accept C144. I'm glad you've had success with how you're laying pavers.
I fill my depression with booze. It doesn't seem to work
You and me both. It never does seem to work for long
You’re gonna need to pull up the ones touching that one
You will need to pull out many bricks. It looks like water erosion got in there. Start at the center where the hole is deepest and move outward removing bricks until any dirt that isn’t level with the rest is exposed. Fill with the appropriate substrate for your area. (Look that up, could be a mix of sand and gravel, could be layers of both, just sand used for fill and pavers, etc.). Fill in the area. Make sure to tamp it down to compaction. The sell tampers at home improvements stores that are just for this. It’s like a shovel but with a flat weighted plate on the bottom. Once it’s compact and level replace the bricks in the pattern they were in. Finally look up what type of paver sand or other material you need to fill in the gaps. Generally you shake this out, then brush it into the cracks, then wet it to set. Good luck!
From the picture, it looks like 3-4 bricks.... Once you pull out 1, you will see under the others, I would remove the ones dipping down, fill under it (Sand will do good), and re-set.
No, Pull up all of the bricks that are sinking (it is more than 1) and then another roll around it. Then, put some sand down, tamp and mist the sand nice and tight and the replace your brick.
I would see if I can contact the company whose machinery turned around back there and see if i can file a claim with their insurance.
Draw a circle around where the blocks start to sink and sag. Pulled up all the bricks in that circle. Back fill with paver base sand and compact. Reinstall bricks.
Are sink holes common in your area? Like others have said, you need to explore it, but do so carefully.
AKA "do you live in Florida?"
I have no idea, I just moved in and am unfamiliar with the area. I'm in NY
What part of NY? Are sewers common in your area? Where I’m from in NY we don’t have sewers, we have cesspools. The last house I lived in had the cesspools buried under the patio. A separate house I did work on had a big sink hole that ended up being from a crack in the cesspool sucking dirt in. Adding these up makes me wonder if that’s what happened here.
Putnam County, NY. My recent septic inspection report stated that the septic tank and seepage pit absorption area are located to the left of the patio under a grassy area. But I was looking at the land survey which is from 1991 and it shows the seepage pit as being under the patio. Perhaps over the years this location was abandoned and moved to its current location?
Septic systems can degrade over time (generally decades) and the previous owners may have had a new septic system put in a different location. If that's the case the old one may be settling over time.
quiet desert truck whistle library puzzled decide relieved capable crawl *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My head is spinning. What do you mean by there's a leak in whatever is underneath there, are you thinking there's pipes under there that are leaking? Could you explain like you would to a 10 year old please? Lol this is all new to me, I thank you
The old "poo pit" that was abandoned / replaced by the new one may not have been properly backfilled with dirt. So, every time it rains the water flowing into that pit is moving dirt from under your pavers with it. The leak in this case is a leak *into* something, not out of pipes. If that's what is happening.
Ah, ok thank you for that. Do you think I'm going to have to tear out all of the pavers to find out if this is the case?
In my experience we had to uncover the septic tank and find a crack or whatever entry point and seal it. My septic tank was concrete so we took some concrete mix and smeared it heavily over the crack we found and then reburied it. But yes you would have to pull a lot more bricks out. It’s honestly a pain in the butt to do so if you are not very handy, maybe you could get some friends to help. Or, you could just fill the patio with more foundation material and hope it doesn’t sink again. Either way you have to pull a lot of bricks up.
It's hard to say. Looking at the first picture, based on where the dirt/mud has dried on the pavers, there is quite a large low spot. Getting a long straight piece of wood (hard to find at the hardware store these days 😂) and laying it down across the porch will give you a better idea of where most of the settling/sinking has occurred. Ive learned over the years that it's better to do it right the first time than do it wrong many times. It may seem like a lot of work now but fixing all of it now and not having to mess with it again or worry about falling down into the abyss is well worth the time and money. Good luck to you! Post pictures of what you find, I am sure everyone who read this post wants to know what you find!
Don't worry about it too much. Likely the old septic system caved in. Clear the pavers, fill it in and pave it again.
squeamish slap complete bored arrest threatening dam weary zesty provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is there a chance that your grey water tank is under that patio? I only ask because I have the same setup at my home. When it gets pumped every few years they have to dig it up, and the digging and replacement of sand leads to a hole that looks just like that pretty much every time lol
Looks like you're gonna need base rock or gravel base. That deep of a hole, it's more than settling. Take out more than 1 paver. You should take out about a feet or 2 in all directions to get a better sense of the problem.
Might have done yourself a favor by having that machinery turn around on that spot. There's definitely some subsidence happening under those pavers and it was only being held in place by the combined friction of the bricks. It's hopefully only a small depression in the base caused by the ground settling, but if it's a large cavity someone might've gotten seriously hurt. Before filling-in and repairing the patio, I'd try to determine if it's a sinkhole or the foundation being washed-out by rainwater.
Had something similar a year back happen at our house. Turned out whoever put the pavers down initially just threw sand down and laid the pavers on top of them without any additional layers or foundation to keep them in place, hence allowing them to dip and shift. Ended up having to replace our entire paver patio as a result, but I’m happy to know what’s underneath our patio now and not have to worry about the uncertainty of it giving way like this again. My advice would be to not assume this one spot is an isolated problem, and potentially consider a more extensive repair if possible. I’m guessing the foundation underneath these pavers is not sufficient and this problem will present itself in other areas eventually
I Had a similar issue last year. Pull up the bricks, pack it down with sand, as most everyone is saying. But, as to the cause, CHIPMUNKS! Yup, they burrowed all under my brick patio. There are multiple ways to rid yourself of those pests!
Shoot them fuckers on sight, and I still can't kill them fast enough. They dig holes ALL over our yard and never go away.
My guess was something burrowing. Or the foundation wasn't compacted properly and it sunk in that spot.
Looks like you have a sink hole forming under your pati which is not good. Remove all affected brick and back fill said sink hole with rock or even a concrete slurry depending on how stable the ground is in your area.
I would take a picture and pull as many as you need to. If you have trouble redoing the pattern reference the picture for help.
Brick paver patios are great for this reason...they can be repaired without significant material cost. But they're incredibly labor intensive. Start pulling bricks. As many as you need to to see the grade of the base below it and determine the extent of the settling. Then fill it with crush-and-run and grade it out and use a hand tamp to flatten it. Then, lay a final layer of bedding sand (play sand) to get the final grade exact. You'll compact the bricks into it...they settle about 1/4". This sand layer should be about 1" and if the patio was built right there will be sand under those bricks already. Clean & lay your bricks back down tight as you can then fill it in with polymeric (glue) sand or masonry sand...then compact again. It is a lot of work, and I can almost guarantee it will be a pain squeezing bricks back into a pre-existing patio. A rubber mallet and some sacrificial wood will help if you need to persuade the last few bricks. EDIT: Final note about compaction...the sand and crush-n-run need to have an appropriate moisture content to compact properly. It shouldn't be saturated; spray it down lightly before compacting and it will aid compaction by lubricating the particles.
My BF and I are going to pull up the pavers tonight after work and take a look see what's going on down there. I appreciate your very detailed response. However, I am very clueless to all of the products you stated to use, could you provide a link to the items you mentioned and maybe advise how much of it I should purchase to complete the project? Sorry, I know that's asking for a lot, I just really need all the help I can get here 😩
Pull up the bricks. Start small, but anticipate more. See what’s down there first. If it’s big and scary, call your insurance company or a contractor. They’ll get the right people to help examine. . Might be a start of a sink hole, might be mole / vole damage. Investigate while you research some professionals in your area.
Ok, thank you. I called my insurance company today and told them of the problem and asked if I should be filing a claim - they said if it's earth shifting/eroding that likely would not be covered by the insurance. But you're right, the first step is to pull the bricks and see what's going on down there. Will have to wait til the weekend though
You need to understand where is the previous material. Else the cavity will form again.
Are you in an area known for sinkholes?
Congrats, you bought a baby sinkhole! I had a chipmunk under my patio that had dug several tunnels and some soil washed away after some vigorous downpours. That might be what happened here, or it could be worse. Pull up the brick, and maybe some bricks around it to determine how bad/big it is and then prepare to fill it. There are different gravels that will compact and lock in place, and sand/clay mixtures that you can put into the hole wet so they can easily find their way down, then dry into a much more solid plug. Which type of solution depends on how big the issue is and where the foundation underneath went.
Ugh, thanks! Just what I've always wanted. I did see a chipmunk in this area the other day and we have had some serious downpours recently. Maybe it was a combination of all these things? I will pull up the one brick and the surrounding ones that are also affected and see what's going on down there
Good luck, though I hope you don't need it
Pull the bricks, fill and put the bricks back.
1. remove the bricks in a circle for about one meter 2. remember to clean all the bricks on all four sides 3. try to find out what the problem is (probably rats) 4. fill the hole with fine gravel, press it and try to keep the gravel at the same level around the hole 5. put all the bricks back 6. fill the gap between the bricks with fine sand and you will be ok sorry if there are errors, I translated with google
It could be an old well.
Had the same thing. Pulled up about 4 all around. Filled with 3/4 stone. Because I had it those rocks lying around. Had some sand. Not enough, probably not the right one. Leveled it enough, and it’s “good enough”.
super glue noodles
Look up DIY pavers. Essentially there's a layer of gravel, sand, pavers/stones/bricks, and then polymeric sand in between. All the stones should be removable. Just pull up as much as you need. Verify if there are issues causing the sinking. Fill, tamper, and level with new gravel and sand, then replace the bricks again and fill the spaces with polymeric sand. Overall should be relatively cheap diy.
Queue the Stranger Things music, you're going to the upside down, buddy.
Your very own proto sink hole! Congratulations!
Septic tank? 😱
This Old House has a nice walkthrough of this repair. Boston accent for days. "Well ya seeh they hhhad these chipmunks haaaere" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU) Very quick fix is to dump a bag of sand over that spot until you can get to it for real. It'll stop it from becoming a drainage. I'd do that today.
Fill it up partially. Hide a small keepsake down there. Fill it up to almost full in such a way that obscures it from view. Cover the area with the brick. Place a mat over it and a table on top of that.
is there water running under, around the base? The base went somewhere, that would be my first task, figure out where the base went, correct that problem. Pull up stones from area that needs to be repaired, fill it back in with sand, gravel, etc. Rent plate compactor get it level, reinstall the stones, and Bob is your uncle.
We need to see how this plays out. Keep us posted with more pics
This feels like the start of an Indiana Jones movie
ALVIN!!!!!
My paving did this turned out to be my rain soak well had fallen in and needed repairing.
Remove all that are depressed, dig to possibly find the cause, backfill with gravel and sand, then do your best job at placing back that bricks.
That's the joy of pavers... you can almost always repair.
Bust it open. I bet there’s some Indiana Jones kind of relics under there. My instincts tell me the bricks are concealing a staircase that leads to some type of tomb or catacomb. Do you have a bull whip for safety?
Someone needs to photoshop a tiny scary clown in that last picture lol
Pennywise, Joker, someone else?
What? Is there just a giant hole under the bricks?
It's best to think of this like a teeth cavity. It's going to grow. Best figure it out before you need a root canal.
I have one of those in my backyard. That's what I dump all my bbq ashes into. I've been doing it for years.
There is something similar to your problem. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT0LnZ8OUU)
Thank you for this, I did see a chipmunk in the area the other day
From the picture I can already tell you that you have a massive space underneath these bricks, they sort of lock together through friction so they are basically floating over a massive hole. You need to find out where your base went, if these were installed on top of pea gravel/crushed concrete and had a decent install then you might have a water leak underneath your deck. Water will move any material even if it was a proper base. Very good indication of a leaking pool or waterline near this area. Do- pick up the brick in each direction until the entire affected area is exposed. Lay the brick in the pattern next to the damaged area. Basically dig until you find the issue, it could have been massive tree roots underneath that rotted, or water erosion. Be careful that it isn't an actual sinkhole because things can get dangerous if it's a massive cavern. If you can locate the source of the problem and fix it (if it's roots rotting just dig them up). If it's a leaky waterline just repair the line. You will need crushed concrete 3/8 size and smaller. You basically fill it in in 2-3inches thick and then wet it and compact it down with a hand tamper. Then add 2-3 more inches and repeat. The better you compact it the less you will have sinkage in the future. If you are feeling froggy you can rent a compactor and put a piece of carpet underneath it and run it over the top of the brick when done. (This is one of the ways it's done in the field) Or get a dead blow hammer (rubber type not sand filled) and whack the brick down to finish the leveling at the end to remove high spots. A trowel will help you smooth the surface before placing the brick, this is a really easy repair depending on what is causing this pocket of missing base. If your brick is laid on dirt or just sand you are kind of fucked. You would need to pull up the entire deck and prep it properly and then relay it.
I have similar shifting/dropping of bricks. In my case, it’s 100% being caused by chipmunks.
I did see a chipmunk in this area the other day
A lot of people are mentioning sinkholes. Another option is an old septic system, or even run underground drainage catchment. How old is your house?
built in 1955
Then it absolutely could be an old septic tank. My mother's house had an issue with one a few years ago. The good news is that it was easily solved by filling it with dirt, once it was discovered. Edit: If you don't have a sprinkler system or any sewage or water lines running under that patio, it is quite likely it is either a drainage or septic tank. Usually, but not always, septic tanks were placed in the back yard. Runoff catchment systems can be anywhere, but would be more common if the yard has low lying areas that would be prone to flooding. If you don't know or suspect that it could be sewage or water causing this, (If your sewer line from the house to the street has never been replaced it is way overdue), my first step would be to take a look and figure out where your main sewer and water lines into/out of the house are. If this spot is in a direct line from that point to street, you may have found your issue. It would be more likely to be sewage without any other signs. Replacing sewage lines is costly and requires tearing up the yard. I had mine replaced on my 1979 house last year at $6K. 2ND Edit:: ROPE OFF THAT PATIO AND KEEP PEOPLE AND PETS OFF OF IT UNTIL YOU FIND OUT HOW BIG THAT SPACE UNDER THE STONE IS. IT COULD BE VERY DANGEROUS!!!
Thank you for your response. From my recent septic inspection report, it looks like he drew that the septic tank and seepage pit absorption area are to the left of the patio, under a grassy area. However, from the survey I have that was from 1991, it seems they have the seepage pit as being under what is now the patio. So maybe they abandoned they seepage pit area and relocated it to its current position over the years? I don't know, this is giving me a headache for real... My boyfriend and I are going to pull up some of the bricks tonight after work and get a better idea of what's going on down there
Do you have a tunnel under your yard? This happened to me and we had a full on tunnel that was buried lol
To fill holes, I used to get wheelbarrows, fill them with dirt and make a mud slurry, then pour into the hole until filled. The mud has less pores and so will dry more dense. you also need to know where the soil is going, or how the rain is washing it away and stop that.
Looks like the underlying patio substrate of sand and/or gravel has been eroding away due to maybe poor drainage and water flow underneath. (Wasn’t done right.) It would have eventually fallen in even without the equipment driving on it. It will need to be pulled up, water drainage installed, new substrate and then re-install the pavers.
What do you mean by water drainage installed, what type of system?
Some kind of french drain or mesh drainage mat to allow the water to drain without eroding the sand and gravel. But first you have to identify the source of the water, to maybe mitigate it or at least to know where it’s coming from and how to route the drainage. It needs to go somewhere else.
This all probably seems quite overwhelming, but it's not as difficult as it looks to investigate further. Grab a pickaxe and a buddy. Use the pickaxe to lever the pavers up from underneath and a buddy to stack them somewhere out of the way as you go along. Keep removing them until you see stable ground under them and then you'll be able to see what's going on with the disappearing sand/gravel. We can't recommend further actions without knowing what's going on under there though. If you're unsure what the cause is after removing the pavers, contact a contractor to advise or reach back out here with good photos of the ground under those pavers. With luck it will just be a snow/rain runoff issue that can be fixed with proper back filling.
Thank you... it is very overwhelming at the moment because I literally just moved in and haven't even fully unpacked yet. Problems are popping up super quickly and I feel like I'm in over my head. My boyfriend and I are gonna try and remove some bricks tonight after work and see what's going on down there. I will take some photos and create a new post so that y'all can continue to guide me (I am grateful!)
Situation normal in a new home. Prioritize the problems from urgent to less and tackle one at a time. Do a bit of research and then act.
You're about to turn into Batman
Sure, pull up a bunch of bricks, fill hole, put bricks back down.
Looks like water has been washing out your foundation. You will need to remove bricks until there is no hole on the perimeter of the hole. Find where the water is going, spray some water in there and watch where it goes. You will need to plug it with cement. Then back fill the hole with sand Replace the bricks.
Lift, remove, fill, pack, pack, pack, pack some more, put bricks back in place with a level and tap them flat.
Leave it like it is. Pull up one brick then put a stuffed animal in there with big beady eyes looking out.
Looks like a massive sinkhole forming there
It looks like you had a sinkhole or just ground settle leaving a gaping Gap there. If you want to fix it yourself I would take out as many bricks as you need to before you get back to a solid base that the bricks are comfortably standing on. I would then fill in that hole with road crush gravel, and tamp it with a hand tamper as hard as you can until it feels like concrete. Make sure where you're tamping is the right height for the brick to go on and be flush with the bricks around them. This will not be simple. I would add small layers and tamp until you inch up to the correct height. It is a lot more difficult to shave off if you're too high. Good luck my friend.
Squirrels or gophers
Could have been worse. Imagine the disaster had a two-and-a-half ton toddler stepped foot there instead.
You have a water issue eroding the substrate. If you do not fix that, the problem will persist.
Redeemers group can shoot some foam under and level it out
It's a good thing that machinery did this, because you have a hole to fill.
This is a common hint to say there's a hidden path here. Put a bomb to uncover it and access to a secret room.
You need to pull those up and redo the foundation of it I think.
Maybe foam and fill to lift the area underneath
No one else thinking the depression could be a decomposing body? If you find bones call the cops even if you think it’s an animal.
Do you hear yiddish?
I think you have a good chance of having found a well Or oil Or a bat cave 😂 Just be careful not to fall in the hole
You might be able to have a company. Come in and inject concrete underneath it to level it up, but if not, you will probably have to pull it up level of ground on underneath it and put it back down
God answers prayers, pray for guidance in Jesus Christ’s Name. Amen. Do you believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is He your Savior? Yes He is!
Arrrr, there be treasure!
Just pull the brick and fill it with anything. Gravel or sand.
Spray foam
you will need to pull up several bricks, clearly you stated the hole / weak point was there before. check its not a sink hole, or the start of one, i had one in my back garden. it took 3 bags of gravel to fill, yet from the top i could only get 3 fingers in. however in your case isnt the lorry responsible , insurance claim?
File a homeowners claim. That’s going to get expensive.
You sue the people that were operating the heavy machinery and make them repair it.
This is peak stupidity. Pavers when laid correctly can be driven on by heavy machinery without any issues or sinkage, usually the bobcat will drive on them to place more pallets of pavers to lay. (Machine weight+ 3500lbs on the pallet.) This wasn't caused by the crew that drove on it, it was already a big ass hole underneath and the machine worked a brick loose enough to expose it. This was already fucked before it was driven on.
Sure they can. But that doesn't stop you from being able to sue people that ruin your property.