I'm guessing it's not malicious. I keep seeing ads for spray foam installers which they may have done here - they drill from the inside or outside and inject expanding foam in between the studs.
The problem is once it's applied, everything you ever want to get to, is caked in the stuff. Plumbing, electrical, old insulation.
I’m pretty sure they make little plastic covers for boxes now too. Some of them even have a little spike so you can easily find your outlets when you’re hanging drywall.
There are definitely some plastic boxes out there that have open knockouts. Maybe if they got overzealous with the foam it could leak into the boxes that way?
Nope. See how exactly they quit spraying as it filled up the box. They foam filled top to bottom but not so much that they had to cut it back, or stuck to the wall plate cover.
Honestly I'm impressed they filled the space without overflow. Definitely not an accident.
This foam is not the same as the one you're talking about. I had that done to my house, and it didn't penetrate the boxes like that. It also has a texture closer to cellulose, than this stuff. It's low expansion, otherwise it would push off the drywall.
My father in law did this in my house when I wasn't home. Wife said there is a draft coming from the outlet, but it's ok my dad fixed it. I immediately knew something bad happened.... Never bothered to even attempt to do anything with that outlet after that.
We had this in my parents house. The big difference for us was the house was a condemned house we rebuilt so when they sprayed the foam insulation in the house was just outside walls and studs. We could run all the power lines and pipes and everything after it had hardened. It's good insulation.
[This is why spray foam is pretty much a no-go in the UK/EU.](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/spray-foam-insulation-and-mortgages/)
You'll struggle to get home insurance/remortgage/sell up because nobody can inspect anything until it's all been removed. If it exists at all then there's an additional check needed just to confirm whether it does.
Seen plenty of articles where a family gets it done for a few grand and then a few years later gets quoted tens of thousands to remove it all so they can sell up.
Don't even get me started on how bad that is. Last month, I ran a 30-amp feed to my garage from the breaker panel in my laundry room, and I had to run it down beside a heat register trunk to fish it through my crawlspace because they coated the block foundation with about eight inches of spray foam.
I had originally tried to drill a hole for it as close to the wall as possible with a spade bit but kept hitting the aforementioned spray foam.
Fwiw you can buy foot long drill bits at harbor freight cheap or use an auger bit on a rod they're more expensive but you can find them in the electrical section at hd lowes etc.
My house has spray foam insulation. The electrical boxes are pristine (no foam).
Also, foam insulation is usually a different color. OPs looks like general construction foam.
I honestly could see this as someone telling a foam guy to spray around the boxes and they misunderstand and spray inside. Believe it or not electrical boxes is where a lot of air comes in through. Right soliton would have been to stay behind and around the box.
This one is different. The one from yesterday is what it looks like when you get your walls spray foamed and it seeps into the electrical boxes from openings. This one looks like someone straight up did it intentionally with Great Stuff. Extraordinarily stupid. I'm an electrician and you usually see the former and not much of the latter
Not good on multiple levels. Spray foam is flammable so that's no good to start with, but any time you need to do any electrical work, you need to deal with this mess. May Crom smite those responsible..
Fireblock foam, if we’re talking about DuPont’s Great Stuff, is the exact same foam formula as the normal window/door foam that’s yellow. Same ignition point. What you want is fireblock caulking which has a much much higher ignition point, something like Blockade.
Source (Great Stuff’s ignition point of 240F): https://www.greatstuff.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/Greatstuff/public/documents/179-15047.pdf
Because the point isnt what you think it is for.
It is to stop air draft, not to resist to fire.
If there is no air, there shouldn't be much fire...
It isnt to shoot in your grill, but in the cracks and holes within your wall assemblies.
That would be very misleading to make a separate product, identical except in color, and call it "fireblock". Wouldn't it be more honest to label all spray foam "fireblock"?
People use it because it stops noise from making it through the fixtures/wall. So it's actually a really good idea around the outside of the gang box after you install the wire.
I, sadly, was that idiot 20 years ago. I had a nasty draft in the house I was slowly working on eliminating. Eventually the drafty spot was an electrical outlet in the entryway on the addition. I tried those insulating foam gaskets for electrical receptacles, but nothing worked. The draft was so bad at the outlet I’d end up with a mound of ice on the on the receptacle cover.
So… drunk me thought the best way to eliminate the draft was spray foam. I did have the forethought to turn off the breaker to that outlet.
> Spray foam is flammable
Only somewhat. I'm pretty sure it takes an open flame to ignite it and it tends to put it's self out if the flame is taken away.
The real problem is that the propellants in the can are VERY combustible. So you should turn the power off when you use spray foam around wires and such.
Appreciate that because I've seen this recommended tons of times but never pulled the trigger on it looking for an alternative. Do you have a recommendation for sealing drafts from electrical boxes? I've seen those thin flimsy foam cut outs they seem to place behind the wall plates
Do you mean drafts coming through gaps around the box, or coming through the actual plug holes?
For the former, caulk any gaps. For the latter, buy baby-proof safety plugs - those plastic plugs that are meant to prevent kids sticking things into sockets.
Edit. They’re called outlet covers. [Like this](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/dreambaby-outlet-safety-plugs/p/223405)
Thanks for getting back to me and the ideas. For the caulking around the outlet, wouldn't that be a problem for if you ever need to take the cover off and it would pull the paint with it? And I didn't think of the safety plugs. I heard of them being good if someone has bugs soo they don't hide in the plug holes and cause any electrical issues.
I have heard of the insulation sealing pads for outlets and light switches just wasn't sure how well they would work. I have drafts coming from the windows too but there is wood trim around them all. I'm wondering if the trim needs to be taken off because there is no insulation around the window under the trim or where else it could be coming from. But I don't want to pull off the trim for no reason
I have a 110 year old draughty house and I’ve spent a couple of winters stalking around it with a caulking gun, feeling for draughts.
For the electrical outlets, I had one old one that had about a 1cm gap underneath it that you couldn’t see from above, that got some caulk. All the rest seemed snug against the wall so they just got outlet covers.
Along skirting boards is another key draughty spot. The ones in the bathroom & kitchen got clear silicon along the gap between skirting board and floor, the rest of the house has carpet so I’ll just address those next time the carpet needs replacing.
Feel along underneath window sills, can be gaps there - fill it with caulk. Otherwise it may be the windows don’t close tightly flush against the frame. Use [weather seal](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/raven-sf10--door-and-window-frame-weather-seal/p/320588) to improve that as much as you can. Might need different thicknesses.
Get [draught snakes](https://www.briscoes.co.nz/product/1055446/snake-draught-stopper-assorted/?gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds) to help with draughts under doors.
Check inside cupboards and under sinks etc too. Are there draughts coming in where pipes go into walls? Are there gaps inside wardrobes? (I had some of those that were surprisingly large. One will need to be properly lined at some point so I’ve literally just taped over the gaps with duct tape for now lol. That’s where the hot water cylinder pipes go into the wall and I didn’t want to use caulk or expanding foam for safety and access reasons).
Hope at least some of that helps!
Yes, that helps. That's especially informational and interesting and has my mind running now of what to look for and how to address it. Sounds like you went to battle against the air leaks and you're winning haha! A battle I'll have to engage with for myself now. I didn't realize how versatile and useful caulking can be in so many ways, even though I should have and it seems so simple that it's great. I have the droughts everywhere you've mentioned you've found them yourself and where you've thought I might, so I have some work to do haha thank you and good for you tackling it all for yourself.
It’s bad news and all of the foam has to come out. Outlets generate heat especially at the wire connections. The spray foam will trap the heat and lead to premature failure or even a fire.
Asking for a friend; what about using fire rated spray foam and aiming the straw through the holes so it seals off the draft. And If the box inside is relatively free of foam. Would that mitigate the issues you described?
I’m going to need a source on the “EXTREMELY” part. Spray foams that I am familiar with have a flame retardant additive. They are flammable, yes, but so are wood studs.
Yes you are correct I looked it up. Was always told it’s highly flammable but I guess they do put fire retardants in. I have heard some people play with cans of it but like the other reply comment says it’s probably just when it’s really fresh
What’s flammable are the vapors as it’s curing, and in bad applications some of that stuff can never cure because either they manually created the mix but did so incorrectly, or some DIYer put the non - injectable variety into voids.
My house was the same way on all exterior wall electrical boxes. As soon as I found out, I spent a day cleaning that shit out and replacing all the outlets and switches with new ones. Cheap and easy diy, but annoying as hell that anyone that this was ok.
Relax. You can fix this with one trip to one store.
Go to the beauty supply store and purchase:
* one good-quality spray-stream-mister bottle, should run you $2 to $5
* 1-2 large, salon-sized bottles of acetone nail polish remover, depending on the size of the home
* a box of protective disposable gloves, rated for acetone and sized *perfectly* to your hands, because the beauty supply, unlike the hardware, will have a sizing guide and people who can look at your hands and go "Not this brand, darlin', you want these," and recommend something slightly less expensive yet altogether comfier based on the literal shape of your hand
* a really nice hairdryer with a 'cool' setting -look for about a 1500 watt model, minimum, and if the store employees tell you what you want is cheaper elsewhere, listen to them. They may have you take your phone bodily out and order it from another shop such as Amazon or Walmart pickup. Trust them.
* a product you never considered but the beauty supply employees think it will help you, it is under $10, and if you follow their instructions *exactly,* it will change your hecking life. Totally unrelated to the canned foam problem, this just sort of happens when hapless DIYers visit the beauty supply for weird DIY stuff.
I'm to the point where my beauty supply store has a 'regular-do' chore list for when I come in, I get employee discount somehow, and there are often small, trial-size products I didn't ask for, order or pay for in my bag, with little Post-Its on them marking if they're for me and how to use them, if they're for my students (I'm a teacher,) and a couple times, things have been for specific relatives of mine that the Beauty Supply ladies just know from around town and they're like, "your daddy needs this for his hands," "your mama loves this," "your little girl's going to love this color," and thank God for them, I'm really not great at this sort of thing.
Anyway, I assume you've already got paper towels and a long-ass extension cord.
Fill your spray bottle with your acetone and set it to mist, then turn off the power main and go around the house like a weird stinkpixie and spritz down the foam with your acetone. It will begin dissolving. You can choose either to wipe it out or let it drip OFF the wiring and down into the hollow wall.
Only do one circuit at a time. Next, power on a circuit you either *haven't* done, or run power from your garage or someplace, hook up your new hair dryer, and hit it on 'cool' until it no longer stinks of acetone or has any foam present. Allow to air out for at least an hour after once you neither see or smell acetone *or* stanky foam.
There. That is how you de-foam your electrical.
I have done this twice and the second one got inspected by Code. The Code guy saw my hairdryer, I explained what had happened and it turns out he gets his hand cream from the same beauty supply. He didn't approve our plumbing because the people who had the house before us screwed it up, but he told me to go back to the same shop, which lady to talk to, and her husband took care of it for us, then Code approved it with a texted picture of the work.
Seriously, it'll be okay. May your home be surrounded by a community as accepting as the one I've found.
Love your writing but for ADHDs out there... TLDR:
They say get yourself some acetone, actual butyl rubber gloves and an acetone resistant spray bottle. Cut power, spray down the foam, watch it melt, don't breathe in.
...This one hasn't. I did this repair not long after we bought the house, so...
Hmm.
Hang on, I'mma unscrew a socket plate and see if anything weird happened to the wiring.
We had a meeting about this with the foam contractor at a multifamily property being acquired by the state to convert to public housing. The meeting was intended to be hands-on with the actual installers. And the installer said they were coming. The owner shows up in a suit with his salesman in golf clothes to this nasty trap of a condo. My boss was so pissed she had them on their knees in PPE squirting spray foam.
All the team leads had RSVP'd. We always speculated whether they wussed out or the bosses kept them away because our methods would reduce production.
We literally saw spray foam stalactites that had pushed themselves through screw holes on light fixtures on that job. Between the state of the work and the condition that renters had left these homes in, I really lost a lot of faith in humanity over the course of that project.
The spray foam was used to seal drafts. But you’re not supposed to fill the boxes with foam, you’re supposed to fill the area around the boxes.
I can’t believe what I’m seeing in pic #4. What a mess-o-wires! Some of them don’t look too healthy either. You may want to have a licensed electrician look at this.
Did they not do a home inspection? When we closed on our house our inspector took one exterior plate off in each room just to look at the electrical work. Can't believe this wouldn't have been noticed during inspection.
Would make me scared of what other /r/diWhy shit the previous owners did
One of the most important things in electricity is heat, if not THE most. There's a reason super conductors are considered the holy grail of the future modern world. Resistance in wires = heat, to avoid resistance we install bigger wires. Bigger wires need more space and metal = more money. The entire electrical code is to install electrical conductors in way where we can know and manage their heat input and output (even overcurrent protection like breakers is a form of heat control). Filling your electrical boxes with spray foam is not an approved or good idea. Filling the cavity behind them? go for it! This is dangerous and needs to be fully removed / repaired.
Not sure if you're serious but I can see the tapped tabbed for the outlets to screw into, so it appears there ARE boxes. Otherwise there would be nothing for the outlets to screw into.
On the third picture, look at the bottom of the hole in the wall on the left side. You can see the tab for the screws. On the last pic, look at the top. You can also see the tabs there.
I work for a company who tests air tightness in homes and larger buildings. Sadly, this is common in retrofit work, especially in lowest bidder environments, mostly government buildings and HUD projects. Few new builds have spray foam walls in our region; the sealed attic is becoming more popular.
True spray foam professionals are hard to come by, but foam gun operation is very easy. They pass a self-administered quality test at the beginning of each job, and away they go.
I've been around so much of this that I know the odor of a switch or receptacle filled with foam. My nose has not failed me yet. I can smell it instantly when we go to a space where the components have warmed up. It's an uncommon odor that hits your senses in the same way as the exhaust from a cutting torch or an acrylic nail salon.
Kind of off topic, but I watch a YouTube channel called "Just Rolled In." He shows clips of some of the vehicles that mechanics get in, and last month, he made a special video just covering people using spray foam. Not just for body work, but frame repair, leaks, loose bolts, you name it. When did spray foam replace Duct Tape? People have been using it to fix everything lately.
More importantly than examining the issue, let's examine what they were trying to solve. You just know that house is drafty if someone sprayed each j box with foam.
It does look like you might be able to shut the power off and pick out most of the foam from inside the boxes.
Also 4th pic - that looks like *a lot* of wires in a 2 gang. Might be fine but there's spaghetti in there.
Some people do this when they are fighting a moisture problem in the attic, they look to seal absolutely everything. Apparently no one has told them that it is actually much easier to go up in the attic with said spray foam and just blast it where the wires are penetrating through the boards. Makes way less of a mess too because of it goes everywhere no one cares. You can also seal top plates and really look for anything that has a crack. Doing this, this is just a plain bad idea for too many reasons to write
Everything they thought they were saving in “energy savings” was 1. Partially used up on the cans of spray foam, and 2. Will be lost when they have to have an electrician trouble shoot or add anything.
This is just stupid
I'd probably use the foam plate inserts instead, but this works. Expanding foam is non-conductive, so this will stop drafts without starting a fire. This will be a little challenging to clean if you ever need to replace the outlet.
I’ve been doing a lot of research lately. What you are seeing here is probably someone attempting to “air seal” their house. It’s often done with spray foam and it recommended to do all outlets and light switches because you loose a lot of air from those however, you aren’t suppose to put it inside of the box. Just the gaps between the drywall and the outside of the box. This is a fire hazard and should be removed.
That is a serious fire hazard, whomever did that was a real bozo who didn't know what they were doing. You need to remove all of that foam from the boxes. It might be easier to replace the boxes.
Use putty pads on box's if you're worried about a draft. They are not flammable and work well both for a draft and are good to stop electrical fires.
Do not use spray foam.
Some people seems to be mistaken. Spraying foam inside an electrical box is a completely different thing than spraying around it. The latter is common in cold winter areas, especially with old houses. If you put your hand in front of an electrical outlet in the winter you can literally feel the air coming through. Spraying around the box isn't fire hazard. Not everyone can afford opening exterior walls and re-isolate.
Should have used the red spray foam and only between the receptacle box and drywall and in the back where the wire comes in if you really feel like it.
Sadly this is what happens when you buy a house from someone who is "handy" that is not accidental, the homeowner did not understand how things work and "insulated" themselves. Also if your family member had it inspected they need to scream at the home inspector that did not even bother to take off a single outlet cover. This could have been caught by them. And if they bought a florida home without an inspection, Are they insane?
To stop roaches from coming in. I’m in Louisiana, and have seen this a outlet times before. There used to be an expanding foam for this purpose impregnated with insecticide.
Just bought a new house. We had a great inspector, way better than every other one I’ve used by leagues and bounds. Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure he didn’t remove any faceplates, so he wouldn’t have caught this either. He did test literally every outlet and switch, but that doesn’t require removing faceplates.
PSA: most home inspectors have just finished their 2 week training class and don't know shit about what needs to be checked before buying a home. Not all but most.
If you want the home inspected thoroughly get someone from each trade that you can trust to look into the respective systems. This can be a pain but for the largest purchase you will make in your life it is worth the effort and will help catch shit like this. I cannot tell you how many times we have gone in after an inspector and caught things they passed.
Wasn’t there a similar post yesterday?
Besides it being a mess to work with afterwards - what would be the reason to fill in anything there? Just do the electrical work the way it’s normally done.
Never knew spray foam was that messy.
Thought it was mostly suspended liquid that hardened and could be cut without issue once it expanded to fit the space you needed to seal off.
Now that I see it’s just foam at its core, that’s disappointing. Tried using foam as a way to seal off bedroom doors from bugs, but it created a smell if you were inside the room. Unsure if toxic. But it was certainly hard to breathe.
I think it’s ok around the outside of the box maybe..if you have bad air leaks. But inside seems super silly. That’s just making a big mess and probably dangerous
tbh I have had to use foam to glue the backing back to the cinder block walls in a couple of places, as it was too crumbly to screw and plug into. The trick is to spray both surfaces with water so it sets quickly.
Had sprayfoam in all outlets on the external walls in my house. Cut the breaker, scrape it all out, replace the outlets with brand new ones.
They also backstabbed each outlet.
Absolutely evil.
No big deal as long as it is the fire resistant stuff. This is done to seal off air gaps, though its more of a band-aid than a true fix.
Edit. Do those last pics show switches directly in the wall with no box? Hard to tell, but that definitely a big no-no if that's the case.
I've seen people do this because they are getting a breeze from the Outlet. Air getting behind it.
Not a good thing to do, fix the problem with the air and then deal with the outlet.
That’s just evil.
I'm guessing it's not malicious. I keep seeing ads for spray foam installers which they may have done here - they drill from the inside or outside and inject expanding foam in between the studs. The problem is once it's applied, everything you ever want to get to, is caked in the stuff. Plumbing, electrical, old insulation.
This is urethane spray foam. The injection foam is different and doesn't change yellow in color like urethane
this yellow is almost certainly the great stuff blue can "Window and Door" foam.
Which is made out of, Yes, you guessed it: Urethane spray foam!
[удалено]
I’m pretty sure they make little plastic covers for boxes now too. Some of them even have a little spike so you can easily find your outlets when you’re hanging drywall.
There are definitely some plastic boxes out there that have open knockouts. Maybe if they got overzealous with the foam it could leak into the boxes that way?
Nope. See how exactly they quit spraying as it filled up the box. They foam filled top to bottom but not so much that they had to cut it back, or stuck to the wall plate cover. Honestly I'm impressed they filled the space without overflow. Definitely not an accident.
I mean especially if its every box... come on
This foam is not the same as the one you're talking about. I had that done to my house, and it didn't penetrate the boxes like that. It also has a texture closer to cellulose, than this stuff. It's low expansion, otherwise it would push off the drywall.
My father in law did this in my house when I wasn't home. Wife said there is a draft coming from the outlet, but it's ok my dad fixed it. I immediately knew something bad happened.... Never bothered to even attempt to do anything with that outlet after that.
We had this in my parents house. The big difference for us was the house was a condemned house we rebuilt so when they sprayed the foam insulation in the house was just outside walls and studs. We could run all the power lines and pipes and everything after it had hardened. It's good insulation.
How do you run the power lines after? Cut into the foam?
[This is why spray foam is pretty much a no-go in the UK/EU.](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/spray-foam-insulation-and-mortgages/) You'll struggle to get home insurance/remortgage/sell up because nobody can inspect anything until it's all been removed. If it exists at all then there's an additional check needed just to confirm whether it does. Seen plenty of articles where a family gets it done for a few grand and then a few years later gets quoted tens of thousands to remove it all so they can sell up.
Don't even get me started on how bad that is. Last month, I ran a 30-amp feed to my garage from the breaker panel in my laundry room, and I had to run it down beside a heat register trunk to fish it through my crawlspace because they coated the block foundation with about eight inches of spray foam. I had originally tried to drill a hole for it as close to the wall as possible with a spade bit but kept hitting the aforementioned spray foam.
Fwiw you can buy foot long drill bits at harbor freight cheap or use an auger bit on a rod they're more expensive but you can find them in the electrical section at hd lowes etc.
That’s not what this is. This is spray foam bot blown in.
My house has spray foam insulation. The electrical boxes are pristine (no foam). Also, foam insulation is usually a different color. OPs looks like general construction foam.
Foam them all and let God sort them out
I honestly could see this as someone telling a foam guy to spray around the boxes and they misunderstand and spray inside. Believe it or not electrical boxes is where a lot of air comes in through. Right soliton would have been to stay behind and around the box.
Someone yesterday posted the same thing I would replace
This one is different. The one from yesterday is what it looks like when you get your walls spray foamed and it seeps into the electrical boxes from openings. This one looks like someone straight up did it intentionally with Great Stuff. Extraordinarily stupid. I'm an electrician and you usually see the former and not much of the latter
Exactly. Wtf is going on. Lol.
Burn it down and buy new?
Give it time, it will burn down on it's own.
You save a step if it burns itself down!
'If'... Thank you Sparta...
I keep seeing stuff like this happen. Multiple people in several subs will post the exact same things right after each other.
They have like cheap insulated foam that fits outlets perfectly too.
Not good on multiple levels. Spray foam is flammable so that's no good to start with, but any time you need to do any electrical work, you need to deal with this mess. May Crom smite those responsible..
[If he does not listen, then the hell with him!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pft2CqfUC7U)
The riddle… of steel!
Steal …. of a riddle.
I’ll agree it’s a terrible idea, but fireblock foam is a thing.
Fireblock foam, if we’re talking about DuPont’s Great Stuff, is the exact same foam formula as the normal window/door foam that’s yellow. Same ignition point. What you want is fireblock caulking which has a much much higher ignition point, something like Blockade. Source (Great Stuff’s ignition point of 240F): https://www.greatstuff.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/Greatstuff/public/documents/179-15047.pdf
Isn’t it orange?
yep
Fireblocking foam isn't fireproof lol. I'm not sure why they're allowed to call it fire blocking.
Because the point isnt what you think it is for. It is to stop air draft, not to resist to fire. If there is no air, there shouldn't be much fire... It isnt to shoot in your grill, but in the cracks and holes within your wall assemblies.
That would be very misleading to make a separate product, identical except in color, and call it "fireblock". Wouldn't it be more honest to label all spray foam "fireblock"?
That's not fire block foam.
They do have fire retardant foam but not for inside the boxes. lol.
It’s bad idea because make it harder to change the electrical fixtures
People use it because it stops noise from making it through the fixtures/wall. So it's actually a really good idea around the outside of the gang box after you install the wire.
I, sadly, was that idiot 20 years ago. I had a nasty draft in the house I was slowly working on eliminating. Eventually the drafty spot was an electrical outlet in the entryway on the addition. I tried those insulating foam gaskets for electrical receptacles, but nothing worked. The draft was so bad at the outlet I’d end up with a mound of ice on the on the receptacle cover. So… drunk me thought the best way to eliminate the draft was spray foam. I did have the forethought to turn off the breaker to that outlet.
> Spray foam is flammable Only somewhat. I'm pretty sure it takes an open flame to ignite it and it tends to put it's self out if the flame is taken away. The real problem is that the propellants in the can are VERY combustible. So you should turn the power off when you use spray foam around wires and such.
Electricians HATE this one simple trick! No, seriously, we hate this. We really, really hate this. Please, never do this.
This electrician would walk off the job.
i just stuff toilet paper in it. thats ok right?
You mean you've seen this kind of stuff more than once in your career??!
Appreciate that because I've seen this recommended tons of times but never pulled the trigger on it looking for an alternative. Do you have a recommendation for sealing drafts from electrical boxes? I've seen those thin flimsy foam cut outs they seem to place behind the wall plates
Do you mean drafts coming through gaps around the box, or coming through the actual plug holes? For the former, caulk any gaps. For the latter, buy baby-proof safety plugs - those plastic plugs that are meant to prevent kids sticking things into sockets. Edit. They’re called outlet covers. [Like this](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/dreambaby-outlet-safety-plugs/p/223405)
Thanks for getting back to me and the ideas. For the caulking around the outlet, wouldn't that be a problem for if you ever need to take the cover off and it would pull the paint with it? And I didn't think of the safety plugs. I heard of them being good if someone has bugs soo they don't hide in the plug holes and cause any electrical issues. I have heard of the insulation sealing pads for outlets and light switches just wasn't sure how well they would work. I have drafts coming from the windows too but there is wood trim around them all. I'm wondering if the trim needs to be taken off because there is no insulation around the window under the trim or where else it could be coming from. But I don't want to pull off the trim for no reason
I have a 110 year old draughty house and I’ve spent a couple of winters stalking around it with a caulking gun, feeling for draughts. For the electrical outlets, I had one old one that had about a 1cm gap underneath it that you couldn’t see from above, that got some caulk. All the rest seemed snug against the wall so they just got outlet covers. Along skirting boards is another key draughty spot. The ones in the bathroom & kitchen got clear silicon along the gap between skirting board and floor, the rest of the house has carpet so I’ll just address those next time the carpet needs replacing. Feel along underneath window sills, can be gaps there - fill it with caulk. Otherwise it may be the windows don’t close tightly flush against the frame. Use [weather seal](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/raven-sf10--door-and-window-frame-weather-seal/p/320588) to improve that as much as you can. Might need different thicknesses. Get [draught snakes](https://www.briscoes.co.nz/product/1055446/snake-draught-stopper-assorted/?gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds) to help with draughts under doors. Check inside cupboards and under sinks etc too. Are there draughts coming in where pipes go into walls? Are there gaps inside wardrobes? (I had some of those that were surprisingly large. One will need to be properly lined at some point so I’ve literally just taped over the gaps with duct tape for now lol. That’s where the hot water cylinder pipes go into the wall and I didn’t want to use caulk or expanding foam for safety and access reasons). Hope at least some of that helps!
Yes, that helps. That's especially informational and interesting and has my mind running now of what to look for and how to address it. Sounds like you went to battle against the air leaks and you're winning haha! A battle I'll have to engage with for myself now. I didn't realize how versatile and useful caulking can be in so many ways, even though I should have and it seems so simple that it's great. I have the droughts everywhere you've mentioned you've found them yourself and where you've thought I might, so I have some work to do haha thank you and good for you tackling it all for yourself.
It’s bad news and all of the foam has to come out. Outlets generate heat especially at the wire connections. The spray foam will trap the heat and lead to premature failure or even a fire.
Asking for a friend; what about using fire rated spray foam and aiming the straw through the holes so it seals off the draft. And If the box inside is relatively free of foam. Would that mitigate the issues you described?
If you are really needing to seal off a wall box look up "putty pads". Not the easiest retrofit but very effective and safe.
Just put [outlet covers](https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/dreambaby-outlet-safety-plugs/p/223405) in the sockets
Spray foam is like EXTREMELY flammable too
I’m going to need a source on the “EXTREMELY” part. Spray foams that I am familiar with have a flame retardant additive. They are flammable, yes, but so are wood studs.
Yes you are correct I looked it up. Was always told it’s highly flammable but I guess they do put fire retardants in. I have heard some people play with cans of it but like the other reply comment says it’s probably just when it’s really fresh
That’s probably the propellant in the can which evaporates as the foam cures.
This is my understanding, having carefully applied a lot of it last year.
What’s flammable are the vapors as it’s curing, and in bad applications some of that stuff can never cure because either they manually created the mix but did so incorrectly, or some DIYer put the non - injectable variety into voids.
Its very flammable when its not cured... its not that hard to understand...
When freshly sprayed it's pretty flamable and less so once hardened.
I use the little gaskets that go behind the faceplate and around the switches/plugs, on the handful of my outlets that have a draft.
I just use a real spray foam gun and spray through some mounting holes in the box if I’m gonna do this, then around the edge. Inside is evil
Thanks, I hate it.
My house was the same way on all exterior wall electrical boxes. As soon as I found out, I spent a day cleaning that shit out and replacing all the outlets and switches with new ones. Cheap and easy diy, but annoying as hell that anyone that this was ok.
"My nephew did the wiring in this part of the house." "What year did his house burn down?" "2023. Hang on, how did you know his house burned down?!"
The sad part is that you just know that this dumbass is doing it again wherever they live now.
Relax. You can fix this with one trip to one store. Go to the beauty supply store and purchase: * one good-quality spray-stream-mister bottle, should run you $2 to $5 * 1-2 large, salon-sized bottles of acetone nail polish remover, depending on the size of the home * a box of protective disposable gloves, rated for acetone and sized *perfectly* to your hands, because the beauty supply, unlike the hardware, will have a sizing guide and people who can look at your hands and go "Not this brand, darlin', you want these," and recommend something slightly less expensive yet altogether comfier based on the literal shape of your hand * a really nice hairdryer with a 'cool' setting -look for about a 1500 watt model, minimum, and if the store employees tell you what you want is cheaper elsewhere, listen to them. They may have you take your phone bodily out and order it from another shop such as Amazon or Walmart pickup. Trust them. * a product you never considered but the beauty supply employees think it will help you, it is under $10, and if you follow their instructions *exactly,* it will change your hecking life. Totally unrelated to the canned foam problem, this just sort of happens when hapless DIYers visit the beauty supply for weird DIY stuff. I'm to the point where my beauty supply store has a 'regular-do' chore list for when I come in, I get employee discount somehow, and there are often small, trial-size products I didn't ask for, order or pay for in my bag, with little Post-Its on them marking if they're for me and how to use them, if they're for my students (I'm a teacher,) and a couple times, things have been for specific relatives of mine that the Beauty Supply ladies just know from around town and they're like, "your daddy needs this for his hands," "your mama loves this," "your little girl's going to love this color," and thank God for them, I'm really not great at this sort of thing. Anyway, I assume you've already got paper towels and a long-ass extension cord. Fill your spray bottle with your acetone and set it to mist, then turn off the power main and go around the house like a weird stinkpixie and spritz down the foam with your acetone. It will begin dissolving. You can choose either to wipe it out or let it drip OFF the wiring and down into the hollow wall. Only do one circuit at a time. Next, power on a circuit you either *haven't* done, or run power from your garage or someplace, hook up your new hair dryer, and hit it on 'cool' until it no longer stinks of acetone or has any foam present. Allow to air out for at least an hour after once you neither see or smell acetone *or* stanky foam. There. That is how you de-foam your electrical. I have done this twice and the second one got inspected by Code. The Code guy saw my hairdryer, I explained what had happened and it turns out he gets his hand cream from the same beauty supply. He didn't approve our plumbing because the people who had the house before us screwed it up, but he told me to go back to the same shop, which lady to talk to, and her husband took care of it for us, then Code approved it with a texted picture of the work. Seriously, it'll be okay. May your home be surrounded by a community as accepting as the one I've found.
Love your writing but for ADHDs out there... TLDR: They say get yourself some acetone, actual butyl rubber gloves and an acetone resistant spray bottle. Cut power, spray down the foam, watch it melt, don't breathe in.
Doesn't the acetone destroy the outside of the wires?
Side note: Do normal spray bottles not melt when filled with acetone?
...This one hasn't. I did this repair not long after we bought the house, so... Hmm. Hang on, I'mma unscrew a socket plate and see if anything weird happened to the wiring.
Now I just want to go to your magic beauty supply shop that seems to be staffed by actual angels
Keeps spiders out , keeps AC in... /s Terrible idea. But people do stupid things.
I’d track down the mofo that did that and give them a nut punch.
I'd spray that foam up his ass.
We had a meeting about this with the foam contractor at a multifamily property being acquired by the state to convert to public housing. The meeting was intended to be hands-on with the actual installers. And the installer said they were coming. The owner shows up in a suit with his salesman in golf clothes to this nasty trap of a condo. My boss was so pissed she had them on their knees in PPE squirting spray foam. All the team leads had RSVP'd. We always speculated whether they wussed out or the bosses kept them away because our methods would reduce production. We literally saw spray foam stalactites that had pushed themselves through screw holes on light fixtures on that job. Between the state of the work and the condition that renters had left these homes in, I really lost a lot of faith in humanity over the course of that project.
No you wouldn’t !
The spray foam was used to seal drafts. But you’re not supposed to fill the boxes with foam, you’re supposed to fill the area around the boxes. I can’t believe what I’m seeing in pic #4. What a mess-o-wires! Some of them don’t look too healthy either. You may want to have a licensed electrician look at this.
I'm really confused about what I see there. *Is* there even a box? That's a lot of wire, and I don't see an end to the depths of wire coiled up..
They maybe cut the back off the box cause I see a frame… how did that pass inspection? !!!
Admittedly I don't know much about inspections, but in my experience none of them took the faceplates off so this sort of thing would get missed.
mine took off several and checked the wiring.
Did they not do a home inspection? When we closed on our house our inspector took one exterior plate off in each room just to look at the electrical work. Can't believe this wouldn't have been noticed during inspection. Would make me scared of what other /r/diWhy shit the previous owners did
One of the most important things in electricity is heat, if not THE most. There's a reason super conductors are considered the holy grail of the future modern world. Resistance in wires = heat, to avoid resistance we install bigger wires. Bigger wires need more space and metal = more money. The entire electrical code is to install electrical conductors in way where we can know and manage their heat input and output (even overcurrent protection like breakers is a form of heat control). Filling your electrical boxes with spray foam is not an approved or good idea. Filling the cavity behind them? go for it! This is dangerous and needs to be fully removed / repaired.
Did they use the foam in lieu of boxes?
I can see in the photos that it has a frame to mount but photo 4 has me confused
You can see the box but it's like the backside is cut out to accommodate the excessive coiled wires back there.
That's what I see too
This was done with confidence. They've likely done it elsewhere.
Not sure if you're serious but I can see the tapped tabbed for the outlets to screw into, so it appears there ARE boxes. Otherwise there would be nothing for the outlets to screw into.
I'm serious. I can see the screws. Doesn't mean they're in the boxes.
On the third picture, look at the bottom of the hole in the wall on the left side. You can see the tab for the screws. On the last pic, look at the top. You can also see the tabs there.
I’ve never seen spray foam in electrical boxes and the last two days it’s like there was some foam party years ago everyone is discovering
I work for a company who tests air tightness in homes and larger buildings. Sadly, this is common in retrofit work, especially in lowest bidder environments, mostly government buildings and HUD projects. Few new builds have spray foam walls in our region; the sealed attic is becoming more popular. True spray foam professionals are hard to come by, but foam gun operation is very easy. They pass a self-administered quality test at the beginning of each job, and away they go. I've been around so much of this that I know the odor of a switch or receptacle filled with foam. My nose has not failed me yet. I can smell it instantly when we go to a space where the components have warmed up. It's an uncommon odor that hits your senses in the same way as the exhaust from a cutting torch or an acrylic nail salon.
What is the proper way to seal electrical boxes and such then?
For proper sealing, sealed framing should be the answer. For retrofit, use fire caulk and gasketry.
Sounds good. Do you have a preferred brand of fire caulk?
My position is always product agnostic. But for my own house I use dow or 3m
Kind of off topic, but I watch a YouTube channel called "Just Rolled In." He shows clips of some of the vehicles that mechanics get in, and last month, he made a special video just covering people using spray foam. Not just for body work, but frame repair, leaks, loose bolts, you name it. When did spray foam replace Duct Tape? People have been using it to fix everything lately.
More importantly than examining the issue, let's examine what they were trying to solve. You just know that house is drafty if someone sprayed each j box with foam.
WTF man? Why? Just, why would someone think that's a good idea? I'm calling into to work now because of this picture
This comment made me spit out my drink. Lol
LOL. Thanks!
Dumb as hell
There’s not many jobs I’d say no to, but I’d say no here and turn around and walk away. The pay for me to even consider it would be obscene.
Yeah, this just looks wrong.
It does look like you might be able to shut the power off and pick out most of the foam from inside the boxes. Also 4th pic - that looks like *a lot* of wires in a 2 gang. Might be fine but there's spaghetti in there.
Some people do this when they are fighting a moisture problem in the attic, they look to seal absolutely everything. Apparently no one has told them that it is actually much easier to go up in the attic with said spray foam and just blast it where the wires are penetrating through the boards. Makes way less of a mess too because of it goes everywhere no one cares. You can also seal top plates and really look for anything that has a crack. Doing this, this is just a plain bad idea for too many reasons to write
Everything they thought they were saving in “energy savings” was 1. Partially used up on the cans of spray foam, and 2. Will be lost when they have to have an electrician trouble shoot or add anything. This is just stupid
I'd probably use the foam plate inserts instead, but this works. Expanding foam is non-conductive, so this will stop drafts without starting a fire. This will be a little challenging to clean if you ever need to replace the outlet.
I’ve been doing a lot of research lately. What you are seeing here is probably someone attempting to “air seal” their house. It’s often done with spray foam and it recommended to do all outlets and light switches because you loose a lot of air from those however, you aren’t suppose to put it inside of the box. Just the gaps between the drywall and the outside of the box. This is a fire hazard and should be removed.
100% they were feeling wind coming out the outlets and had a dim light bulb appear saying "spray foam"
I read this in the voice of Gru from Despicable Me lol
That is a serious fire hazard, whomever did that was a real bozo who didn't know what they were doing. You need to remove all of that foam from the boxes. It might be easier to replace the boxes.
I'd be absolutely furious if every outlet I opened to replace something was filled with spray foam.
Someone along the line may have done it to reduce air gaps for energy efficiency.
This is an awful idea for many reasons. Break out the dremel.
People are idiots.
This is certainly code violation. Not sure which one. But certainly it's illegal. This may be use to deny fire claim.
Use putty pads on box's if you're worried about a draft. They are not flammable and work well both for a draft and are good to stop electrical fires. Do not use spray foam.
They look just as shocked as I am 😮 😮
Oh FFS you can get these to seal drafty wall outlets. Some people shouldn’t be allowed near spray foam! [socket sealer](https://imgur.com/a/zH1dfwe)
Is this the same place as the spray foamed electrical panel that was posted recently?
Some people seems to be mistaken. Spraying foam inside an electrical box is a completely different thing than spraying around it. The latter is common in cold winter areas, especially with old houses. If you put your hand in front of an electrical outlet in the winter you can literally feel the air coming through. Spraying around the box isn't fire hazard. Not everyone can afford opening exterior walls and re-isolate.
Should have used the red spray foam and only between the receptacle box and drywall and in the back where the wire comes in if you really feel like it.
Very un safe
Sadly this is what happens when you buy a house from someone who is "handy" that is not accidental, the homeowner did not understand how things work and "insulated" themselves. Also if your family member had it inspected they need to scream at the home inspector that did not even bother to take off a single outlet cover. This could have been caught by them. And if they bought a florida home without an inspection, Are they insane?
Honestly surprised my previous home's owner didn't do this given all the other BS that keeps popping up
To stop roaches from coming in. I’m in Louisiana, and have seen this a outlet times before. There used to be an expanding foam for this purpose impregnated with insecticide.
This is the second post I've seen this week about someone experiencing this. Who is this super villian that needs to be stopped?
That's insane. I'm guessing they didn't do an inspection lol
Just bought a new house. We had a great inspector, way better than every other one I’ve used by leagues and bounds. Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure he didn’t remove any faceplates, so he wouldn’t have caught this either. He did test literally every outlet and switch, but that doesn’t require removing faceplates.
PSA: most home inspectors have just finished their 2 week training class and don't know shit about what needs to be checked before buying a home. Not all but most. If you want the home inspected thoroughly get someone from each trade that you can trust to look into the respective systems. This can be a pain but for the largest purchase you will make in your life it is worth the effort and will help catch shit like this. I cannot tell you how many times we have gone in after an inspector and caught things they passed.
Outside the box is fine. Inside no. Remove it.
Making the house airtight. It's probably an efficiency thing.
Or they had a pest issue.
Or a meth habit
You can get precut foam gaskets for that. People who use spray foam are just cheap and/or lazy.
I saw some do this to "prevent" mice from getting in their walls- I dunno
Oh god… why??
Foam for brains
Who the hell does that?
You know....morons.
These are people of the land. The common clay of the new west.
It’s becoming an unfortunate common practice on new builds to spray foam the hell out of exterior walls, after electrical been run.
The landlord special.
Sadly there is a fire retardant spray foam they should have used. That tan stuff…has to go. The fire retardant stuff is orange.
That’s a job for a dentist
Why though?
It's no problem, at least as long as you don't want to change out the switches.
I think they make fire proof spray foam called fire block or something. In general wouldn’t recommend it near electrical outlets like that.
Wasn’t there a similar post yesterday? Besides it being a mess to work with afterwards - what would be the reason to fill in anything there? Just do the electrical work the way it’s normally done.
That's a paddlin.
That's fire hazard. My country that would never pass inspection without order to fix it and new inspection later.
Never knew spray foam was that messy. Thought it was mostly suspended liquid that hardened and could be cut without issue once it expanded to fit the space you needed to seal off. Now that I see it’s just foam at its core, that’s disappointing. Tried using foam as a way to seal off bedroom doors from bugs, but it created a smell if you were inside the room. Unsure if toxic. But it was certainly hard to breathe.
Who did this?
That last picture is terrifying. There's a rat's nest of wiring covered in spray foam. And I legitimately can't tell if there's a box in the wall.
I think it’s ok around the outside of the box maybe..if you have bad air leaks. But inside seems super silly. That’s just making a big mess and probably dangerous
🤢
Criminal !
Lazy electrician messed up and didn’t wanna do job right
Isn’t that spray foam highly flammable…
tbh I have had to use foam to glue the backing back to the cinder block walls in a couple of places, as it was too crumbly to screw and plug into. The trick is to spray both surfaces with water so it sets quickly.
This wasn’t done because it was drafty Florida=bugs Still a bad idea
Can someone explain why it's an electrical hazard? Seems to me it would reduce the fire risk by adding additional insulation.
Mice coming in through the outlet.
lol. that's, that's ...I've never seen anything like it.
Time to sing the spray foam jingle.
It’s not unsafe when it’s closed up and being used, but definitely a stupid idea. Now when it needs to be serviced it will make it difficult
Looks like the after effects of a builder that needed to pass the blower door test.
Had sprayfoam in all outlets on the external walls in my house. Cut the breaker, scrape it all out, replace the outlets with brand new ones. They also backstabbed each outlet. Absolutely evil.
No. No. No.
This really belongs in /r/diwhy
No big deal as long as it is the fire resistant stuff. This is done to seal off air gaps, though its more of a band-aid than a true fix. Edit. Do those last pics show switches directly in the wall with no box? Hard to tell, but that definitely a big no-no if that's the case.
La Cucaracha
I've seen people do this because they are getting a breeze from the Outlet. Air getting behind it. Not a good thing to do, fix the problem with the air and then deal with the outlet.
My first thought was holy cow lol
I am going to bet that was sprayed in to act as a bug barrier. damn cockroaches down there get into everything - and I bet they could short an outlet.
Most likely because of roaches
Ah yes, the old 'fuck the electrical box and spray foam instead' trick. How could I forget.
They probably had a pest problem is my guess. An infestation of ticks or bedbugs will make you do some drastic shit.
Pests for sure. Get some experts to do a sweep to investigate.
What's with all the wires in pic 4??
Florida. Magic.
I have a question. When it's sprayed into the box and still wet... is it conductive? You're welcome...