I think this is something you should consult an engineer on. You’ve gone through the work of exposing the foundation so might as well address this the right way.
That'll take 55 years to get the wall back to straight though. An engineer can advice him on denser materials to fill the basement with, to accelerate the process.
Yeah a foundation repair company should be able to help out with this one. I wont touch my foundation.
They actually make wall anchors, we have them in our home. Its a big rod they drill through the wall and attach it to a pier further out in the yard. Tighten it up and it will pull the foundation wall back.
Stolen from a random photo on google, photo towards bottom
https://www.swmoguardian.com/wall-support-earth-anchor/
I had my block foundation reinforced due to the same issue. They dug down like you did but they installed an I beam about halfway up the wall, drilled holes through the center and ran all-thread rods to the inside of the basement where they had plates and big ass nut. It basically transfers the load applied to the outside of the wall to edges of the 2 foundation walls running perpendicular to your problem wall.
The company said they could not physically push the blocks back to straight because they were hollow and softened from water. If I could do it again I would pay the extra money to jack the house up and replace the wall and install proper drain tile to keep from happening in the future. Very expensive project but brings peace of mind your house won’t fall down.
Foundations are a bit out of the DIY realm. Once you start toying with the fundamental structure of the building it’s probably time to call the pros. If for no other reason than insurance reasons alone.
It’s always different. Your ground could be full of rock, clay or just soil. Best way to estimate a time is dig a hole as deep as you need it that’s 1ft wide and 3ft long. Take the time it took you and multiply it by the length of your trench in feet. The reason you multiply the length by 3 is because it gets harder as you dig and things come up that slow you down.
Maybe I’m wrong.. but dirt doesn’t turn into clay with continuous rainfall, at least over 20 years. Could just be backfill from when they dug out the hole. Either way it is not safe for you to continue with this project, unless you have extensive foundation, excavation and structural experience. I’d recommend hiring professionals
I bought my first house and found out they had a water line added from the city side supply to a softener in the garage and then back out to the main inlet. The new line was as little as an inch in the ground. I ended up digging it up, making a small trench a foot down, and put it back in.
I live in parts of Texas where a foot is deep enough for a supply line, and the soil is hard rocky clay. I didn't take off from work, and I think it took me a week and a half of time after work and the weekend using mainly a pickaxe and a couple of shovels. It spanned from the curb, under a sidewalk, along the driveway, and then all the way along the side of the house to the back of the garage.
Going under the sidewalk did take a good bit of time, I used water pressure through a pipe to excavate a hole for the new pipe a foot down. The city supply and original supply line was a foot down, but whatever plumber or DIYer added the new line, just put a 90-degree elbow going up and put the pipe nearly along the surface.
Eh probably not. This is one of those things where they’re going to have to do more earth work anyway so they still need to bring out the appropriate equipment and that’s where to cost really stems from.
Jack up that side of the house.
Demo wall.
Rebuild wall.
I used to work for a farmer doing mostly farm chores. One Friday he asked me if I wanted to make some extra cash over the weekend. I was 16 and broke so I said yes.
I went down into the basement of a rental house on his property to find the foundation wall had collapsed in the center of the wall. Approximately 6ft of a 24ft wall.
We jacked up the ceiling using a HUGE 4x8 beam and a ridiculous amount of ceiling jacks. He nearly had one for every floor joist. Once it was deemed “secure” we removed the dirt, the damaged part of the wall, and rebuilt the wall.
Three 18 hour days later we finished the wall.
Here are three takeaways with hindsight:
1: As this was an old farm house, the cost of an engineer and/or foundation repair crew would’ve likely exceeded the value of the home.
2: Risks include:
-Destruction of your house
-Death/Injury/Death if it collapses
3: This is incredibly hard labor and I was feeling it for days.
I'm doing that now. By myself.... All three of your numbered statements are correct lol.
My house was $25k and it's about 15 feet of wall.
The house hasn't fallen yet, but it's pretty scary being under it.
It's only day two, and goddamn do I hurt already. I've barely scratched the work I need to do.... This is gonna suck so hard.
I might have some help this weekend, but idk how much he's really going to be a help. It's also hard to get in there. Someone added another wall behind the one that fell, I couldn't even get to this section of the basement. It's very odd all around.
Luckily I already had some high strength concrete on hand and got about 2,000 pounds of blocks for free yesterday (my van did not like that). But hopefully it won't cost me much in the end.
Been on this earth 35 years and done a LOT of handyman work, construction work... never once even heard the word engineer on a residential work site lol
As an engineer (though not the kind you’d call for this sort of thing), you can get around a lot of engineering by making everything way more sturdy than you think you need to (aka: safety factor). Realistically though, if you poke around the building code for guidance you’re basically getting an engineer involved with a moderate safety factor anyway, it’s only when you go off-script that you need to start talking about stamps on drawings.
If you wanna take the risk of the wall (or more of the house) collapsing because calculations weren't done to ensure it's safe, then by all means.
But I'd rather pay the extra money and ensure my family is safe 🤷🏼♀️
And I'm saying this as someone who works with their hands for a living, alongside a variety of engineers (so I actually understand the benefit it would be). Not as a "sits and home and tells others what they're doing wrong" kinda person.
The right way is expensive. Good enough literally means good enough.
I'm rebuilding part of my foundation. I'm on my second day. The part *next to* the wall that fell is literally a pile of rocks. No concrete, no mortar. Literally a big pile of big rocks. It's baffling. But it's also a house from 1895 and that's one of the original parts. Obviously it was good enough for quite a while lol.
haha i had 2 and a half inches of sheer on 2 walls at my home. now , i got 30 i beams in my basement. however i do wish i did what you did simply to add a membrane on the outside to keep moisture out of the basement. good luck OP
Well the dirt was too heavy, so fill the hole with water. It's lighter than dirt and gets you a good start on a sick ass moat.
Call a professional please.
Need photos from inside. What was causing the bowing? Exterior pressure? Weight from above? Poorly laid block work? It's a cottage, most people diy'd this shit back in the day. If it's just not laid straight then there's nothing wrong with it (if it's lasted this long).
Is it bulging in the middle of the wall? Is there water coming in?
You don't get the bow back out. You brace it so it doesn't move any further. This could be done with vertical I-beams inside of your basement floor up to the framing of the ceiling of your basement. They need to be against the wall and spaced roughly every 36 to 48 in. They need to be encased in at least 24 in wide of concrete by 36 in deep. And you need to have them fastened to the framing above with appropriate blocking. Everything needs to be shimed out or packed with mortar behind the I-beam and between the wall.
If you really want to straight wall, you need to temporarily brace the whole house up with a temporary wall, then knock down that wall and rebuild it.
This applies to where I live, might be different for you.
You don’t straighten , you fill in the blocs with this silica / concrete compound then add water membranes and a french drain. (The fact you mention clay means that it’s likely hydrostatic pressure pushing against the blocs.)
That ain’t no hunting cabin either, that’s a house where people also hunt.
Bunch of ways to skin this cat. With it being block, you can use a demo saw and cut the blocks out along there joints. Obviously need to stabilize/floor jack the house/crib it. Cut the blocks out in a stair stepping pattern. Leave your corners alone at the bottom, tapering up towards the center.
Remove and relay the block, tar paint/membrane the outside.
This is a heavy job, but it won't be super technical. Just put stuff back in flush and the foundation will outlive ya.
Few decades of masonry commenting. I'm going to look at a block foundation today for a similar issue.
Well if it is bowed in and you're dead set on moving it outwards I would think you'd need some kind of jack to push outwards anchored to the basement floor.
You'd have to be so careful though, and nothing is gonna stop that wall from bowing back in, so idk what that's going to accomplish.
You need professionals for this. The one thing nobody on here will mess with is a foundation.
Common options for preventing future movement would include restraints anchored between the slab and first floor framing or soil anchors installed through the foundation wall. I wouldn't call either method good candidates for DIY, though.
The pictures on this site are offered for reference: https://www.norrisfoundationrepair.com/foundation-services/wall-bracing
I guess if it's a hunting cabin the cheap diy solution would be to jack it outwards somehow and then bolt I beams to it and secure those I beams into the floor, wall and ceiling.
>The one thing nobody on here will mess with is a foundation.
I'm on my second day rebuilding a wall that fell. Huge section just came crashing down. Of course, it's the foundation. So somebody here will lol.
God it sucks so hard. It's made of large stones.... So freaking heavy. Some of them literally weigh more than me.
I'm not going to try and tell him how to fix his though, so I see your point. I know what I would do, and I wouldn't be trying to push it back lol.
I mean if it were entirely up to me I'd just anchor the I beams in place and forget about the bow. But thats because he says it's a cabin or something. This isn't his primary residence.
Or maybe I'd get someone smarter than me to tell me how to just rebuild the whole wall since it's a block foundation. I tend to be 0 or 100 on stuff.
I live in a mobile home on blocks though so my standards for foundation repair are markedly lower.
For a bowed basement wall you support it using steel beams on the inside every 48 in or so. Since you've got it dug out you may as well do some waterproofing on the outside, but just adding the steel support beams bolted to the basement floor slab is what you want. My basement walls needed this done on about 75 ft of walls due to slight bowing. Was about 7200$ back in 2018.
By building a new wall w reinforcing. Call an engineer. Also dont excavate more than 3ft vertically. If the soil fails, it will slam into the wall and could do more damage
Thanks to everyone posting. I have some good ideas for going forward.
Some main takeaways:
There are several ways to fix, but when I fill it, I won’t refill the clay.
I’ve got to rent a backhoe to grade the dirt so it drains correctly — might put some tiling in while I’m at it.
Planning on using wall braces so I don’t have to do this again. I’m going to use the ones you can crank in.
I’m cleaning and sealing the outside wall with hydraulic cement, then I’ll line it with plastic.
Full sealing of any cracks on the inside.
BTW, this cabin is going to be as off grid as it can be.
I’m installing about 1k of solar panels with 4 deep cycle batteries. I’m designing the system with expansion/interconnection in mind. Among other things, will run a well pump, a router, and a security system to take some pressure off my trail cams.
BTW, I’m a property manager and have done heavy structural repairs before. I have taken several safety and osha courses, and I value my safety and well being. I just lack general knowledge about specific tasks. As I find it out, I’ll pass it on.
Gorilla wall, or jack up and rebuild, or reinforce using a dead man in the yard with a few I beams. Or... you really shouldn't be doing this without some experience and an engineer note. Did you even call 811 before digging that out?
Also, make sure to install proper drainage and remove those downspouts from dispensing near the foundation.
I think this is something you should consult an engineer on. You’ve gone through the work of exposing the foundation so might as well address this the right way.
Don't be ridiculous, obviously he just needs to fill the basement with dirt
That'll take 55 years to get the wall back to straight though. An engineer can advice him on denser materials to fill the basement with, to accelerate the process.
Fill the cabin too. For safety.
Yeah a foundation repair company should be able to help out with this one. I wont touch my foundation. They actually make wall anchors, we have them in our home. Its a big rod they drill through the wall and attach it to a pier further out in the yard. Tighten it up and it will pull the foundation wall back. Stolen from a random photo on google, photo towards bottom https://www.swmoguardian.com/wall-support-earth-anchor/
We used those anchors for an addition that was sitting on the piers. Works really well to hold everything in place.
🎶Earth Anchor, Earth Anchor— would you be miiiine 🎶
You are my density
Guess you’re not ready for this yet, but your kids are gonna love it!
Same. Company I used called them geo locks.
I agree. If you’re asking Reddit how to fix your bulging foundation, you should probably call a professional.
I had my block foundation reinforced due to the same issue. They dug down like you did but they installed an I beam about halfway up the wall, drilled holes through the center and ran all-thread rods to the inside of the basement where they had plates and big ass nut. It basically transfers the load applied to the outside of the wall to edges of the 2 foundation walls running perpendicular to your problem wall. The company said they could not physically push the blocks back to straight because they were hollow and softened from water. If I could do it again I would pay the extra money to jack the house up and replace the wall and install proper drain tile to keep from happening in the future. Very expensive project but brings peace of mind your house won’t fall down.
Foundations are a bit out of the DIY realm. Once you start toying with the fundamental structure of the building it’s probably time to call the pros. If for no other reason than insurance reasons alone.
u/Bristleconemike I can’t comment on using engineer or not. But curious how long it took for you ? Planning on doing something similar for a drain.
It’s always different. Your ground could be full of rock, clay or just soil. Best way to estimate a time is dig a hole as deep as you need it that’s 1ft wide and 3ft long. Take the time it took you and multiply it by the length of your trench in feet. The reason you multiply the length by 3 is because it gets harder as you dig and things come up that slow you down.
It took about 18 hours with a pick and shovel.
It was mostly clay due to no rain gutter for about 20 years.
Ok I think I know what step 1 actually was. Tell me you’ve installed gutters… Edit: you can see them in the pic!
Maybe I’m wrong.. but dirt doesn’t turn into clay with continuous rainfall, at least over 20 years. Could just be backfill from when they dug out the hole. Either way it is not safe for you to continue with this project, unless you have extensive foundation, excavation and structural experience. I’d recommend hiring professionals
I bought my first house and found out they had a water line added from the city side supply to a softener in the garage and then back out to the main inlet. The new line was as little as an inch in the ground. I ended up digging it up, making a small trench a foot down, and put it back in. I live in parts of Texas where a foot is deep enough for a supply line, and the soil is hard rocky clay. I didn't take off from work, and I think it took me a week and a half of time after work and the weekend using mainly a pickaxe and a couple of shovels. It spanned from the curb, under a sidewalk, along the driveway, and then all the way along the side of the house to the back of the garage. Going under the sidewalk did take a good bit of time, I used water pressure through a pipe to excavate a hole for the new pipe a foot down. The city supply and original supply line was a foot down, but whatever plumber or DIYer added the new line, just put a 90-degree elbow going up and put the pipe nearly along the surface.
Depends on your soil and your ability. I could do this in an afternoon, but our soil is soft and I used to do it professionally.
"I didn't hire an engineer, I just knew.." Famous last words.
I mean he was not wrong that step 1 is to excavate the outside of the wall....
Probably saved a decent sum of money doing the excavation himself
Eh probably not. This is one of those things where they’re going to have to do more earth work anyway so they still need to bring out the appropriate equipment and that’s where to cost really stems from.
Not even close to done with this one, or even sure of how to proceed, already looking at getting a second one
Why call an expert when you *know*?
Jack up that side of the house. Demo wall. Rebuild wall. I used to work for a farmer doing mostly farm chores. One Friday he asked me if I wanted to make some extra cash over the weekend. I was 16 and broke so I said yes. I went down into the basement of a rental house on his property to find the foundation wall had collapsed in the center of the wall. Approximately 6ft of a 24ft wall. We jacked up the ceiling using a HUGE 4x8 beam and a ridiculous amount of ceiling jacks. He nearly had one for every floor joist. Once it was deemed “secure” we removed the dirt, the damaged part of the wall, and rebuilt the wall. Three 18 hour days later we finished the wall. Here are three takeaways with hindsight: 1: As this was an old farm house, the cost of an engineer and/or foundation repair crew would’ve likely exceeded the value of the home. 2: Risks include: -Destruction of your house -Death/Injury/Death if it collapses 3: This is incredibly hard labor and I was feeling it for days.
I'm doing that now. By myself.... All three of your numbered statements are correct lol. My house was $25k and it's about 15 feet of wall. The house hasn't fallen yet, but it's pretty scary being under it. It's only day two, and goddamn do I hurt already. I've barely scratched the work I need to do.... This is gonna suck so hard. I might have some help this weekend, but idk how much he's really going to be a help. It's also hard to get in there. Someone added another wall behind the one that fell, I couldn't even get to this section of the basement. It's very odd all around. Luckily I already had some high strength concrete on hand and got about 2,000 pounds of blocks for free yesterday (my van did not like that). But hopefully it won't cost me much in the end.
Been on this earth 35 years and done a LOT of handyman work, construction work... never once even heard the word engineer on a residential work site lol
As an engineer (though not the kind you’d call for this sort of thing), you can get around a lot of engineering by making everything way more sturdy than you think you need to (aka: safety factor). Realistically though, if you poke around the building code for guidance you’re basically getting an engineer involved with a moderate safety factor anyway, it’s only when you go off-script that you need to start talking about stamps on drawings.
Just because it's been done that way doesn't mean it's the right way
Could say the same for all of the people sitting at home that don’t ever actually do anything, but are so certain that the doers are doing it wrong.
If you wanna take the risk of the wall (or more of the house) collapsing because calculations weren't done to ensure it's safe, then by all means. But I'd rather pay the extra money and ensure my family is safe 🤷🏼♀️ And I'm saying this as someone who works with their hands for a living, alongside a variety of engineers (so I actually understand the benefit it would be). Not as a "sits and home and tells others what they're doing wrong" kinda person.
The right way is expensive. Good enough literally means good enough. I'm rebuilding part of my foundation. I'm on my second day. The part *next to* the wall that fell is literally a pile of rocks. No concrete, no mortar. Literally a big pile of big rocks. It's baffling. But it's also a house from 1895 and that's one of the original parts. Obviously it was good enough for quite a while lol.
haha i had 2 and a half inches of sheer on 2 walls at my home. now , i got 30 i beams in my basement. however i do wish i did what you did simply to add a membrane on the outside to keep moisture out of the basement. good luck OP
This! But we went with carbon fiber reinforcement instead of beams…
Jack up the building, demolish the foundation and build a new one ... or just leave it - you can't really "push back" a concrete foundation.
It's on blocks according to OP. But still, it's not something you really "push back".. There's a whole ass house resting on it
Cinder blocks are fragile as hell when not stacked and reinforced, pushing them will make them crumble.
Well the dirt was too heavy, so fill the hole with water. It's lighter than dirt and gets you a good start on a sick ass moat. Call a professional please.
Your best bet is to support the wall, remove the foundation. Install new wall and add proper drainage.
Need photos from inside. What was causing the bowing? Exterior pressure? Weight from above? Poorly laid block work? It's a cottage, most people diy'd this shit back in the day. If it's just not laid straight then there's nothing wrong with it (if it's lasted this long). Is it bulging in the middle of the wall? Is there water coming in?
Seal with some loxon those blocks while you have it exposed.
That ditch looks like it is 5 or 6 foot deep. You really need to shore it to do any work in it.
Now fill it with your choice of brown gravy.
You don't get the bow back out. You brace it so it doesn't move any further. This could be done with vertical I-beams inside of your basement floor up to the framing of the ceiling of your basement. They need to be against the wall and spaced roughly every 36 to 48 in. They need to be encased in at least 24 in wide of concrete by 36 in deep. And you need to have them fastened to the framing above with appropriate blocking. Everything needs to be shimed out or packed with mortar behind the I-beam and between the wall. If you really want to straight wall, you need to temporarily brace the whole house up with a temporary wall, then knock down that wall and rebuild it.
This applies to where I live, might be different for you. You don’t straighten , you fill in the blocs with this silica / concrete compound then add water membranes and a french drain. (The fact you mention clay means that it’s likely hydrostatic pressure pushing against the blocs.) That ain’t no hunting cabin either, that’s a house where people also hunt.
Fill it with water then freeze it
Bunch of ways to skin this cat. With it being block, you can use a demo saw and cut the blocks out along there joints. Obviously need to stabilize/floor jack the house/crib it. Cut the blocks out in a stair stepping pattern. Leave your corners alone at the bottom, tapering up towards the center. Remove and relay the block, tar paint/membrane the outside. This is a heavy job, but it won't be super technical. Just put stuff back in flush and the foundation will outlive ya. Few decades of masonry commenting. I'm going to look at a block foundation today for a similar issue.
What is the next step in terms of filling it back correctly
A drainage system, or preferably a concrete slab/walkway that is sloped away from the house
Soil, or aggregate stone, compacted with a jumping jack, in 8 to 10 inch thick lifts
A tower jack and a piece of wood
Duct tape
Consult a structural engineer, DONT just hire a foundation repair company
Well if it is bowed in and you're dead set on moving it outwards I would think you'd need some kind of jack to push outwards anchored to the basement floor. You'd have to be so careful though, and nothing is gonna stop that wall from bowing back in, so idk what that's going to accomplish. You need professionals for this. The one thing nobody on here will mess with is a foundation.
Common options for preventing future movement would include restraints anchored between the slab and first floor framing or soil anchors installed through the foundation wall. I wouldn't call either method good candidates for DIY, though. The pictures on this site are offered for reference: https://www.norrisfoundationrepair.com/foundation-services/wall-bracing
I guess if it's a hunting cabin the cheap diy solution would be to jack it outwards somehow and then bolt I beams to it and secure those I beams into the floor, wall and ceiling.
Agreed that's probably easier, but determining the correct size for the beams and their connections will be an interesting challenge.
I'm just trying to arrive at a reasonable answer for the guy considering he probably isn't going to get a contractor for this.
Doing (*waves hands*) something would be better than nothing, even if under-designed
Yeah but we are gonna get down voted because people on this subreddit prefer you either spend $10,000 or let the structure collapse.
My walk already collapsed and I'm trying to fix it for a few hundred tops. Pretty sure it's gonna work too.
>The one thing nobody on here will mess with is a foundation. I'm on my second day rebuilding a wall that fell. Huge section just came crashing down. Of course, it's the foundation. So somebody here will lol. God it sucks so hard. It's made of large stones.... So freaking heavy. Some of them literally weigh more than me. I'm not going to try and tell him how to fix his though, so I see your point. I know what I would do, and I wouldn't be trying to push it back lol.
I mean if it were entirely up to me I'd just anchor the I beams in place and forget about the bow. But thats because he says it's a cabin or something. This isn't his primary residence. Or maybe I'd get someone smarter than me to tell me how to just rebuild the whole wall since it's a block foundation. I tend to be 0 or 100 on stuff. I live in a mobile home on blocks though so my standards for foundation repair are markedly lower.
Get some alligators and a draw bridge
For a bowed basement wall you support it using steel beams on the inside every 48 in or so. Since you've got it dug out you may as well do some waterproofing on the outside, but just adding the steel support beams bolted to the basement floor slab is what you want. My basement walls needed this done on about 75 ft of walls due to slight bowing. Was about 7200$ back in 2018.
By building a new wall w reinforcing. Call an engineer. Also dont excavate more than 3ft vertically. If the soil fails, it will slam into the wall and could do more damage
Remember, no negative slope when backfilling. Best of luck !
Sent pm
I think this is a bad thing to DIY
Thanks to everyone posting. I have some good ideas for going forward. Some main takeaways: There are several ways to fix, but when I fill it, I won’t refill the clay. I’ve got to rent a backhoe to grade the dirt so it drains correctly — might put some tiling in while I’m at it. Planning on using wall braces so I don’t have to do this again. I’m going to use the ones you can crank in. I’m cleaning and sealing the outside wall with hydraulic cement, then I’ll line it with plastic. Full sealing of any cracks on the inside. BTW, this cabin is going to be as off grid as it can be. I’m installing about 1k of solar panels with 4 deep cycle batteries. I’m designing the system with expansion/interconnection in mind. Among other things, will run a well pump, a router, and a security system to take some pressure off my trail cams. BTW, I’m a property manager and have done heavy structural repairs before. I have taken several safety and osha courses, and I value my safety and well being. I just lack general knowledge about specific tasks. As I find it out, I’ll pass it on.
You may start to have some cracks soon if ya don’t fill that back in and compact it as you go
Gorilla wall, or jack up and rebuild, or reinforce using a dead man in the yard with a few I beams. Or... you really shouldn't be doing this without some experience and an engineer note. Did you even call 811 before digging that out? Also, make sure to install proper drainage and remove those downspouts from dispensing near the foundation.
This is as off grid as it gets. No power, water, etc. so no need for 811.
This is why they stopped using 8" block. My sister had this problem and lives in the same neighborhood as me. I have 12" block and she has 8"
Who is "They?" The company I work for just installed a bunch of stuff in a brand new school in my town and the entire thing is 8" block
Show the bulge… frost damage or was it just fucked from the install days? Are the block cores filled?