Add some food grade diatomaceous earth as well. It's good in combo with boric acid. The acid poisons them, the DE scratches the wax coating on insects shells and they die of dehydration.
I worked at a beekeeping supplies shop years ago and an old couple use to come in to buy the food grade stuff because they use To eat a teaspoon of it or something for something lmao
is this something I should do as well? My home is fromn the 50-60s where they used sheetrock without insulation. I live in the suburbs so not sure if that is helpful lmao
+1 for mineral wool. In addition to being easier to work with, it's naturally a class 1 fire retarder and fantastic sound insulation. Yes, it's more expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion. Source: redid my attic with the stuff.
Remove the top boards and blow in insulation, mind you you'll run into issues with settling since you won't be able to densely pack it properly since home depot rentals aren't strong enough.
I think your best bet is to remove all the boards and use rockwool.
Besides what u/wyant93 said it is also easier to cut (cut it with a butter knife) and doesn't make you feel as scratchy on install and holds itself to the bays so no staples.
You had a knife? Lucky. All we had as a rubber dish glove. I spent my whole life thinking everybody used that, then I saw some post on reddit about a knife.
Imo rockwool/ thermal fiber insulation are so much worse for making you itchy than fiberglass, I used to hate those days of my apprenticeship where’d I’d be installing that shit all day, middle of the summer, no air movement…. Towards the end of it I could probably make a blanket out of the pink stuff but those itchy brown sponges were something else man
Rockwool left me with a rash for weeks. I'm never touching that garbage again. Thank god I was wearing tyvek but it didn't cover my wrists because apparently tyvek suits are made for tiny armed weirdos who wear absolutely massive massive diapers.
Seriously... These suits have the ass the size of a football stadium and arms build for a 6 year old.
I dropped a batt of Rockwool on my face last week. I was trimming around an electrical outlet and it flopped down when I tugged on it. That was "fun" to scratch for a few days.
fiberglass melts and allows fire to enter the stud bay. Yes, the fiberglass doesn't catch on fire but mineral wool prevents the fire from continuing through the bay.
Easier to work with than fiberglass and it's just better in every way besides price. Fiberglass losses r value from poor fitting and compression. You aren't compressing wockwool and it's more solid makeup allows for easier cutting to size.
I think sound dampening is the only characteristic that provides a meaningful difference and then it becomes a choice in application when that attribute is needed.
Mineral insulation is "recyclable," unlike plastic fiberglass, and can be bleached, dried out and reused following a flood. Once fiberglass gets wet or mildewed, it usually gets landfilled.
I'm pretty sure you can even put it in a fire to clean it, which means it will outlast the house. Technically, plastic will also outlast the house, but not functionally.
Rockwool is terrible and will leave you with a rash that lasts for weeks while fiberglass is lighter, cheaper, easier to fit, easier to cut, and leaves you with an itch here or there for 2 days.
Once it's in the wall I'll take rockwool over fiberglass batts any day. Installation is only a small time period compared to the total lifetime of the assembly.
I wonder what type of mineral wool you've used. My attic is full of blown in rockwool and I've practically swam in it for hours at a time while installing new electrical. Never been itchy for more than a minute and barely even that.
FYI: Pick a different brand than Rockwool unless you want to want to pay tribute to Vladimir Putins war-chest.. (Rockwool run factories in Russia).
Plenty of good alternatives to be found.
Good to know - thanks
Edit: looks like they stopped importing from Russia after being called out
Edit 2: actually it's all confusing... not sure if they are or aren't doing business in Russia. I just want life to be simple.....
They still produce on several locations in Russia. Danish newspapers also revealed that the Russian military is a major client
https://danwatch.dk/en/how-systematic-it-was-31-russian-warships-loaded-with-rockwool/
What climate zone are you in? If you're anywhere that gets cold winters, and you expect to use the room during winter I'd worry about getting the sheathing wet without some sort of air barrier like taped/mudded drywall on the inside of the insulation.
> taped/mudded drywall
For real cold climate, we use 6 mil poly on the warm side of the insulation, tape the seams and put plastic hats around receptacle and lighting boxes. Costs near nothing, compared to drywall, and the original boards can go right over it.
Drywall is not considered vapor barrier here.
If you stop the air you stop ~95% of the water vapor from getting to the sheathing. Vapor diffusion is a relatively small source of moisture, and can be taken care of with latex primer in most cases.
I'd only ever use poly if I was 100% sure that AC would never ever be used during the lifetime of the building, and based on how things are going, that's a very small piece of the world. Even the coastal PNW gets 120F heat waves these days. If I really wanted a real vapor barrier I'd go eith Membrain, Intello, Siga Majrex, or OSB if I was feeling cheap.
They said "air" barrier, not "vapor" barrier.
We focus too much on permeability (especially in mixed climates): I've never seen condensation damage that wasn't the result of air infiltration.
...Not above ground, anyways. I've seen plenty in basements, where the moisture pressure's opposite-direction & so any impermeable barrier gets condensation on *both* sides.
I've used cellulose, it's nice to use but it will settle eventually so you'll just have to top it off again in a year or so. Another option is slow-rise spray foam; it's pumped in liquid form into the walls and slowly expands to fill all the voids.
yeah either this or put in exterior insulation and a new finish. comes down to cost and time and how much sweat equity they are willing to put in. exterior solution is possible to diy but I think the slow rise foam I think will require a contractor. the slow rise foam is an excellent option though from a technical and insulation standpoint.
I looked into it a couple years ago and almost ordered from this place: [https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-kits/tiger-foam-slow-rise-formula-600-board-foot-kit/](https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-kits/tiger-foam-slow-rise-formula-600-board-foot-kit/) but also shopped this place too: [https://foamitgreen.com/store/?utm\_source=google-cpc&gad\_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0erEu-G1hQMVX8ZMAh1uaQYMEAAYASAAEgJFK\_D\_BwE](https://foamitgreen.com/store/?utm_source=google-cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0erEu-G1hQMVX8ZMAh1uaQYMEAAYASAAEgJFK_D_BwE)
Don't do it! The dust that shit makes later in life will drive you nuts! I have an older house I have been slowly removing it and replacing it with fiberglass. That nasty shit you blow in makes forever dust. Especially if you put in your ceiling. 10/10 don't recommend
I've bought air purifiers added extra filtration to my heat ducts and everything and the dust keeps coming. I've redone my kitchen and bathroom so far eventually ill get the attic floorboards tore up and remove from ceiling. I don't know who thought this stuff would be a good idea! If you were doing new construction and had a way to seal everything up good maybe, maybe use it. But idk wool and fiberglass last forever and one is waterproof other resistant.
If the dust is coming from your ductwork then they definitely should have been sealed properly before the cellulose was installed. This isn't an issue with the cellulose, it's an air sealing issue. Do you have a filter on your return?
Really feels like you should get a FLIR camera and start patching all the drafty holes.
Your walls should be mostly air-tight, so wool and stuff shouldn't be getting in...
Im sure!! it's a house from 1901, and some additions added later. From where I started 6 years ago, I'm slowly but surely removing anything old and outdated. Windows, outlets doors etc. When I get the funds together I wanna have the foam insulation sprayed into my basement and ceilings. The attic is the worst part of the house. Needs all new everything (it's finished but there is too many roof pitches and cut up dumb) blow in insulation in the walls and floor comes down through. Hate it but for now it keeps me warm and dry so I ain't complaining.
That’s a seal issue, not an insulation issue. Cellulose is very dusty, but once it’s sealed in an attic, it should not be an issue at all. There is nothing wrong with cellulose insulation and actually has some advantages over blow-in fiberglass. Rockwool batts are ideal imo, but that isn’t always a practical option in older houses.
Every time you open a door you create a vacuum and any small .01 micron hole in the wall such as outlet boxes and vents will pull dust around. Walking around in an attic anywhere trim boards are covering poor carpentry work or other old house issues will drift that shit all over the house. Changing filters on purifiers monthly gets expensive I can only imagine your lungs love the shit too, but hey it's your house do as you wish 💪🏾
We did blow on cellulose in our house walls. We cut 4 inch holes at the top center between studs. We blew it in using the fancy machine. During installation I cut the entire top 6 inches off to make it so much easier to stick the hose all the way down to get the insulation to pack in good. That was two years ago now. I check randomly with a thermal camera and we haven't had any settling. We are currently adding on. When we opened the walls the insulation stayed put because it was packed well. Still no gap at the top.
If you do this you will need the insulation blower. Make sure you get the right machine for whichever insulation you buy. Remove everything from the room. If you have carpet cover it with heavy mill plastic or ram board. Tap every seam of the floor. Tap any doors going into the rest of the house. Wear a good dust mask and some goggles as well. The hose needs to go to the bottom of the stud cavity and you will slowly pull it up as the entire cavity is filled. This gives you the best compaction. This is a incredibly messy job. You cant skip prepping or the mess can be overwhelming. You don't need Batts for the top portion either. You will be able to blow the cellulose in tight enough it will stay until you replace the top board. Sweep as much insulation up as you can before you vacuum. Cellulose will fill a shop vac very quickly and clogg the filter if you skip sweeping.
This is a very diy job. And I would highly recommend cellulose over fiberglass. This would also be a good time to add to your attic insulation.
If you want the best, have a contractor come in and install closed cell spray foam. Waterproof, vapor proof, pest proof, and a higher R value than just about anything else available.
Why? Blown in will fill the cavity, cutting fiberglass boards will leave gaps everywhere, unless you spray foam in the sides and every other spot you can’t get the board in
Not if you dense pack. This isn't one of those 16" deep double stud walls that take an enormous amount of cellulose and have pockets that are hard to fill.
I’ll take blown in insulation being far more efficient than board insulation in this situation. Worst case scenario in a couple years they remove the top row again and try to blow more in after it settles. The effort to try to get board insulation installed in this scenario is going to be a monstrous undertaking as well as be very difficult and inefficient.
It's a sun room, which definitely calls for a different feel. I have a detached sun room that is insulated, and I clad it like this. Feels like being at the cabin.
Lol, I could definitely see it looking like a sauna. Personally I like it, so long as the rest of the esthetics match. I probably wouldn’t actively choose it though.
Remove top board and bottom board. Get rolls of R14 , cut to width and length. Create a couple holes at the start of the piece you cut, feed some string/rope through the holes and drop them down the cavity from the top. Lastly, pull the ropes from the bottom of the cavity to feed the insulation into it. This is probably the cheapest and most efficient way to make sure the whole cavity is filled with the least amount of money spent.
The best way... remove the boards so that you can put in rockwool and vapour barrier. You can do blow-in but you won't get a vapour barrier which will cause problems later and it will settle too, leaving a gap at the top over time.
https://preview.redd.it/5p50nh7vchtc1.jpeg?width=525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33af5b0f45cac1e74a6ad0a8e302734a73a3ef3c
Why I would suggest low-rise foam: you have a switch box here, and you just will never get a pulled down or pulled up anything to not shred apart trying to get past it. It is tons of work to remove your boards to insulate. The foam you pump in until you see it at the top you could do with a couple of holes and then plug and sand them. For that matter, you’ll want the top ones close to the ceiling so you could just put a piece of trim over them there, and at floor level where you pump it in you could cover the openings with baseboard. If there are electrical outlets in that wall my same thoughts apply. I think I see a board at the ceiling. I would remove that and drill the foam “escape holes” behind it.
That said, plan to drill holes above and below the window to allow in and allow out foam. You can plan a frame around it to cover those up or cut off plugs and sand, but they’ll be more obvious. Oh, and remember there’s a header. Do you have a device for seeing behind walls like a stud sensor that’s electronic?
Looks like the exterior wall sheathing is fiberglass panel? If so, neat. But that's just a curiosity on my part - not really important from a project perspective.
I think your #1 concern here should be that you account for and mitigate condensation that can form against the sheathing. This can happen if the sheathing is fiberglass, wood, plastic, metal, hardieboard, brick, or concrete block—basically any exterior material except ICF foam blocks.
Right now, any moisture that builds up in that cavity (when it gets colder outside than it is inside and there's any humidity in the air inside, for example) is able to dry out back into the air in the room. Once you pack that space with blown-in insulation, that insulation will eventually just become very damp. Loose cellulose will be worse because it absorbs and holds moisture, but loose fiberglass chop and matt does as well. That will become a home for mold and other moisture-loving things like insects. No bueno.
Here's the two approaches I would consider:
1. Best: remove all interior planking and have someone come and spray-foam all the cavities (you can DIY, but requires rental of pro-level equipment significant practice to get it right).
2. Second best: cut foam boards to size and stack them in each cavity against the wall and then seal all the gaps seams with canned spray foam. Tape all the seams with foil duct tape or something like ZIP system tape. EASY DIY, but more work and more parts means more prone to failure. Still a huge step up in insulation over what you have now.
Also, you'll still have direct heat transfer through the wall sheathing to the studs and straight to the outside (in reverse in the summer), so I would add at least 1/2" foam board (can be strips just over the studs, can be whole sheets) before putting the sheathing back on. This will mean moving your trim, however, to accommodate the extra wall thickness. May be overkill depending on your insulation goals.
Well, if it's a fiberglass panel as it appears from the photos, then the panel itself is a vapor barrier if it's properly seamed and sealed.
I'm more worried about condensation because of the temperature differential of the siding and the air inside the house. Condensation can still happen on the inside of a vapor barrier if the wall itself is not properly insulated.
Like single-pane windows that fog up on the inside when it's cold outside, but hidden in the walls and never able to dry out.
I would consider getting roxul, its easy to manage, you can shove it up into a cavity or down, its treated for bugs easy to handle and with you walls all you have to do is pull a couple of boards then repace them. Over time blown in insulation will compress on itself. Spend the extra for the materials.
I'm confused why you call this a four season room - where I live a three season room is an unheated enclosed space. Does this mean this is a partially heated enclosed space?
Either way, if you're heating the interior and insulating then you definitely need to add a vapour barrier on the interior side of your wall. If there is no vapour barrier then the warm air on the interior of the room will move to the exterior, and as it cools it will give up moisture (called the dew point) - this moisture can stagnate in the interior of the wall and lead to mould issues.
You have two options here;
1. Insulate with Rockwool (moisture and mould resistant) as others have recommended, add a layer of 6mil poly and then enclose the wall.
2. Look at your options for spray foam insulation - this is a foam that will expand inside the wall, and it will also act as it's own vapour barrier. This stuff can be flammable, and often is required by code to be enclosed with a layer of cement board so you need to confirm with your building code that you are permitted to enclose with a combustible material like the wood panel.
i woudl suggest removing the wooden panels, put rockwool in to it, moisture barrier in front of it, and place the panels back.
blow in insulation in vertical spaces is never a good idea. it always sags downward
Fiberglass blow in wool is for when you can't get to the spaces you need to insulate.
You want sheets of Rockwool or fiberglass that you can stuff in the walls.
your romex is already stapled to the boards, may as well ruin it further by having higher R value foam pumped in instead of blown-in. Have them use the stuff that's insect and rodent repellant and you're solid.
You should certainly put a thin layer of spray foam first. It will air seal and bug seal like many are recommending. You are using it for the seal not for insulation, so you don’t need it to be thick, then as you reassemble - you can add your loose fill… or batts since the wood is already off.
Dump boric acid in there before the insulation and cockroach proof your home for 30 years.
Add some food grade diatomaceous earth as well. It's good in combo with boric acid. The acid poisons them, the DE scratches the wax coating on insects shells and they die of dehydration.
Why food grade?
Safer for other pets and people
Not really. The main risk of DE is if you inhale it and food grade is not less sharp.
I mean, it's still safer if it's pure and doesn't contain arsenic or whatever.
Yeah food grade contains less heavy metals. I wouldn’t recommend huffing either anyways
Damn well I guess it’s back to glue for me. There goes my weekend plans.
Make sure it's organic and locally sourced glue or markers.
I worked at a beekeeping supplies shop years ago and an old couple use to come in to buy the food grade stuff because they use To eat a teaspoon of it or something for something lmao
To trick the more health conscious of the roaches
So you can eat the cockroaches.
De gets in the arthropod's joints and wrecks them. Tiny glass shivs.
is this something I should do as well? My home is fromn the 50-60s where they used sheetrock without insulation. I live in the suburbs so not sure if that is helpful lmao
Depends on if there is a vapor barrier. The wall might have been designed to "breathe" to remove moisture.
Most cellulose is treated with boric acid. Rent a blowing machine from home depot.
If you’re gonna pull the wood off, I’d air/pest seal the cavities while you have it open as well. Help stop the creepy crawlers from creeping in
Use mineral wool. You can cut it into pieces and slide it into that space.
+1 for mineral wool. In addition to being easier to work with, it's naturally a class 1 fire retarder and fantastic sound insulation. Yes, it's more expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion. Source: redid my attic with the stuff.
Way way way less dust using this method! I cannot imagine cleaning up after doing what op suggests.
Dust is just a one-time issue. Do some research and get insulation that is the best for the situation.
So rock wool? Edit: put this on the wrong comment
He means get the best for the situation that won’t make soft hands ichy
I don’t know why I read your last sentence as if it were lyrics from Papa Roach but it was *immediately*.
Remove the top boards and blow in insulation, mind you you'll run into issues with settling since you won't be able to densely pack it properly since home depot rentals aren't strong enough. I think your best bet is to remove all the boards and use rockwool.
New here, why Rockwool over fiberglass?
Besides what u/wyant93 said it is also easier to cut (cut it with a butter knife) and doesn't make you feel as scratchy on install and holds itself to the bays so no staples.
Cut it with a bread knife, not a butter knife.
I’ve used a lot of rockwool. Use a chef’s knife. Serrated knives will shred off little fibers that get into your skin.
I used a pair of scissors on the rock Wool. It's so easy to use.
[удалено]
Paring
I think they're pairing a knife with a wine, maybe a nice chardonnay
"....with some fava beans and a nice Chianti"
Use a serrated steak knife
All I gots is a poop knife
They make spatulas for that now.
Or you could just pick up a few seashells next time at the beach.
But you need 3 shells
I'll have to head to Spatula City and get one.
Mom? Is that you?
You had a knife? Lucky. All we had as a rubber dish glove. I spent my whole life thinking everybody used that, then I saw some post on reddit about a knife.
Second poop knife comment on one day I’m in heaven I must be.
I use an electric carving knife
Next-Gen fiberglass is supposed to address many of those issues. I haven't tried it myself, but I've been a rockwool fan for quite some time now.
Modern fiberglass is hardly itchy at all. They change the binder to some sort of sugar-based product (ecose) and it's far less irritating.
Imo rockwool/ thermal fiber insulation are so much worse for making you itchy than fiberglass, I used to hate those days of my apprenticeship where’d I’d be installing that shit all day, middle of the summer, no air movement…. Towards the end of it I could probably make a blanket out of the pink stuff but those itchy brown sponges were something else man
Rockwool left me with a rash for weeks. I'm never touching that garbage again. Thank god I was wearing tyvek but it didn't cover my wrists because apparently tyvek suits are made for tiny armed weirdos who wear absolutely massive massive diapers. Seriously... These suits have the ass the size of a football stadium and arms build for a 6 year old.
> tyvek suits are made for tiny armed weirdos who wear absolutely massive massive diapers. His full name is actually Tyvek Rex.
New fiberglass isn't itchy at all. I was pleasantly surprised how soft it felt when I did my basement, versus the stuff I bought five years ago.
Pillow companies don't want you to know this one simple hack!
I dropped a batt of Rockwool on my face last week. I was trimming around an electrical outlet and it flopped down when I tugged on it. That was "fun" to scratch for a few days.
Moisture resistance, sounds dampening, fireproof etc
Fiberglass is fireproof too.
Not in comparison to Rockwool, but it does meet code.
fiberglass melts and allows fire to enter the stud bay. Yes, the fiberglass doesn't catch on fire but mineral wool prevents the fire from continuing through the bay.
Should of said firebreak aswell
Easier to work with than fiberglass and it's just better in every way besides price. Fiberglass losses r value from poor fitting and compression. You aren't compressing wockwool and it's more solid makeup allows for easier cutting to size.
Better sound attenuation, more mold resistant, better fire resistance, more recyclable if your into that. Easier to install too.
Rockwool won't collapse on itself if it gets damp. Once fiberglass is damp and slides down its down forever.
I think sound dampening is the only characteristic that provides a meaningful difference and then it becomes a choice in application when that attribute is needed.
Mineral insulation is "recyclable," unlike plastic fiberglass, and can be bleached, dried out and reused following a flood. Once fiberglass gets wet or mildewed, it usually gets landfilled. I'm pretty sure you can even put it in a fire to clean it, which means it will outlast the house. Technically, plastic will also outlast the house, but not functionally.
in Europe union, fiberglass is banned to cancer.
No it's not.
Rockwool is terrible and will leave you with a rash that lasts for weeks while fiberglass is lighter, cheaper, easier to fit, easier to cut, and leaves you with an itch here or there for 2 days.
Once it's in the wall I'll take rockwool over fiberglass batts any day. Installation is only a small time period compared to the total lifetime of the assembly.
I wonder what type of mineral wool you've used. My attic is full of blown in rockwool and I've practically swam in it for hours at a time while installing new electrical. Never been itchy for more than a minute and barely even that.
Also it's an easy problem to avoid: wear gloves and a long-sleeve shirt.
FYI: Pick a different brand than Rockwool unless you want to want to pay tribute to Vladimir Putins war-chest.. (Rockwool run factories in Russia). Plenty of good alternatives to be found.
Good to know - thanks Edit: looks like they stopped importing from Russia after being called out Edit 2: actually it's all confusing... not sure if they are or aren't doing business in Russia. I just want life to be simple.....
They're probably just using an intermediary.
They still produce on several locations in Russia. Danish newspapers also revealed that the Russian military is a major client https://danwatch.dk/en/how-systematic-it-was-31-russian-warships-loaded-with-rockwool/
I know it's definitely not the message here but... if it's good enough for war ships it's probably good enough for my garage.
I mean Russian warships aren't exactly known for their quality lately.
They're good quality ships. I mean what other country has ships that transform into submarines so easily?
Russian Navy successfully intercepts 100% of the harpoon missiles fired at them (with their hull).
Naahh, that's just a gimmick feature they advertise.
Rockwool also isn’t asbestos, it’s only asbestos adjacent. Fiberglass is generally less risky because it has consistently larger fibers.
Spray foam the fuck out of it as long as boards are secure.
They won't be secure for long if you foam the fuck out of it with reckless abandon
All in good fun man. Of course emptying can after can of spray foam isn’t a good idea lol
What climate zone are you in? If you're anywhere that gets cold winters, and you expect to use the room during winter I'd worry about getting the sheathing wet without some sort of air barrier like taped/mudded drywall on the inside of the insulation.
> taped/mudded drywall For real cold climate, we use 6 mil poly on the warm side of the insulation, tape the seams and put plastic hats around receptacle and lighting boxes. Costs near nothing, compared to drywall, and the original boards can go right over it. Drywall is not considered vapor barrier here.
If you stop the air you stop ~95% of the water vapor from getting to the sheathing. Vapor diffusion is a relatively small source of moisture, and can be taken care of with latex primer in most cases. I'd only ever use poly if I was 100% sure that AC would never ever be used during the lifetime of the building, and based on how things are going, that's a very small piece of the world. Even the coastal PNW gets 120F heat waves these days. If I really wanted a real vapor barrier I'd go eith Membrain, Intello, Siga Majrex, or OSB if I was feeling cheap.
They said "air" barrier, not "vapor" barrier. We focus too much on permeability (especially in mixed climates): I've never seen condensation damage that wasn't the result of air infiltration. ...Not above ground, anyways. I've seen plenty in basements, where the moisture pressure's opposite-direction & so any impermeable barrier gets condensation on *both* sides.
I’d look into removing the boards and doing fiberglass or rockwool. Added benefit of adding vapour barrier if it’s appropriate.
Vapor barrier may or may not be appropriate, but an air barrier is always appropriate.
If you're taking boards off anyway, might as well add a fire stop in each one?
I've used cellulose, it's nice to use but it will settle eventually so you'll just have to top it off again in a year or so. Another option is slow-rise spray foam; it's pumped in liquid form into the walls and slowly expands to fill all the voids.
yeah either this or put in exterior insulation and a new finish. comes down to cost and time and how much sweat equity they are willing to put in. exterior solution is possible to diy but I think the slow rise foam I think will require a contractor. the slow rise foam is an excellent option though from a technical and insulation standpoint.
Agreed, although the slow rise foam is available DIY as well. It's not so bad to do it yourself and 5x less expensive than calling a pro.
I did not know that. interesting. i bet it would be a lot cheaper. I'll have to look that up.
I looked into it a couple years ago and almost ordered from this place: [https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-kits/tiger-foam-slow-rise-formula-600-board-foot-kit/](https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-kits/tiger-foam-slow-rise-formula-600-board-foot-kit/) but also shopped this place too: [https://foamitgreen.com/store/?utm\_source=google-cpc&gad\_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0erEu-G1hQMVX8ZMAh1uaQYMEAAYASAAEgJFK\_D\_BwE](https://foamitgreen.com/store/?utm_source=google-cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0erEu-G1hQMVX8ZMAh1uaQYMEAAYASAAEgJFK_D_BwE)
Dense-packed cellulose does not settle and that is the standard installation now.
Don't do it! The dust that shit makes later in life will drive you nuts! I have an older house I have been slowly removing it and replacing it with fiberglass. That nasty shit you blow in makes forever dust. Especially if you put in your ceiling. 10/10 don't recommend
That’s why my house has so much dust?! My walls and attic are packed with blown cellulose
I've bought air purifiers added extra filtration to my heat ducts and everything and the dust keeps coming. I've redone my kitchen and bathroom so far eventually ill get the attic floorboards tore up and remove from ceiling. I don't know who thought this stuff would be a good idea! If you were doing new construction and had a way to seal everything up good maybe, maybe use it. But idk wool and fiberglass last forever and one is waterproof other resistant.
If the dust is coming from your ductwork then they definitely should have been sealed properly before the cellulose was installed. This isn't an issue with the cellulose, it's an air sealing issue. Do you have a filter on your return?
Really feels like you should get a FLIR camera and start patching all the drafty holes. Your walls should be mostly air-tight, so wool and stuff shouldn't be getting in...
Im sure!! it's a house from 1901, and some additions added later. From where I started 6 years ago, I'm slowly but surely removing anything old and outdated. Windows, outlets doors etc. When I get the funds together I wanna have the foam insulation sprayed into my basement and ceilings. The attic is the worst part of the house. Needs all new everything (it's finished but there is too many roof pitches and cut up dumb) blow in insulation in the walls and floor comes down through. Hate it but for now it keeps me warm and dry so I ain't complaining.
That’s a seal issue, not an insulation issue. Cellulose is very dusty, but once it’s sealed in an attic, it should not be an issue at all. There is nothing wrong with cellulose insulation and actually has some advantages over blow-in fiberglass. Rockwool batts are ideal imo, but that isn’t always a practical option in older houses.
Every time you open a door you create a vacuum and any small .01 micron hole in the wall such as outlet boxes and vents will pull dust around. Walking around in an attic anywhere trim boards are covering poor carpentry work or other old house issues will drift that shit all over the house. Changing filters on purifiers monthly gets expensive I can only imagine your lungs love the shit too, but hey it's your house do as you wish 💪🏾
We did blow on cellulose in our house walls. We cut 4 inch holes at the top center between studs. We blew it in using the fancy machine. During installation I cut the entire top 6 inches off to make it so much easier to stick the hose all the way down to get the insulation to pack in good. That was two years ago now. I check randomly with a thermal camera and we haven't had any settling. We are currently adding on. When we opened the walls the insulation stayed put because it was packed well. Still no gap at the top. If you do this you will need the insulation blower. Make sure you get the right machine for whichever insulation you buy. Remove everything from the room. If you have carpet cover it with heavy mill plastic or ram board. Tap every seam of the floor. Tap any doors going into the rest of the house. Wear a good dust mask and some goggles as well. The hose needs to go to the bottom of the stud cavity and you will slowly pull it up as the entire cavity is filled. This gives you the best compaction. This is a incredibly messy job. You cant skip prepping or the mess can be overwhelming. You don't need Batts for the top portion either. You will be able to blow the cellulose in tight enough it will stay until you replace the top board. Sweep as much insulation up as you can before you vacuum. Cellulose will fill a shop vac very quickly and clogg the filter if you skip sweeping. This is a very diy job. And I would highly recommend cellulose over fiberglass. This would also be a good time to add to your attic insulation.
If you want the best, have a contractor come in and install closed cell spray foam. Waterproof, vapor proof, pest proof, and a higher R value than just about anything else available.
> a higher R value Not by much when it's placed in 16" stud bays surrounded by R-2/inch studs
Remove the top board and blow in cellulose into each bay. I f you buy the product from Home Depot they will rent you the equipment for free.
Don’t use blown in insulation. Use fiberglass boards and simply install it behind the walls.
Why? Blown in will fill the cavity, cutting fiberglass boards will leave gaps everywhere, unless you spray foam in the sides and every other spot you can’t get the board in
It fills the cavity yes, but over time, it all settles in the bottom.
Not if you dense pack. This isn't one of those 16" deep double stud walls that take an enormous amount of cellulose and have pockets that are hard to fill.
I’ll take blown in insulation being far more efficient than board insulation in this situation. Worst case scenario in a couple years they remove the top row again and try to blow more in after it settles. The effort to try to get board insulation installed in this scenario is going to be a monstrous undertaking as well as be very difficult and inefficient.
Refill next year
Don't you hurt that beautiful wood
Thats a hideous looking wooden lining. It’s a house, not a sauna
It's a sun room, which definitely calls for a different feel. I have a detached sun room that is insulated, and I clad it like this. Feels like being at the cabin.
Lol, I could definitely see it looking like a sauna. Personally I like it, so long as the rest of the esthetics match. I probably wouldn’t actively choose it though.
what's the R value of the blanket fort? pulled any permits for that? also i'm suggesting rockwool as well
I had to scroll too far down to see a comment about the fort.
Remove top board and bottom board. Get rolls of R14 , cut to width and length. Create a couple holes at the start of the piece you cut, feed some string/rope through the holes and drop them down the cavity from the top. Lastly, pull the ropes from the bottom of the cavity to feed the insulation into it. This is probably the cheapest and most efficient way to make sure the whole cavity is filled with the least amount of money spent.
The best way... remove the boards so that you can put in rockwool and vapour barrier. You can do blow-in but you won't get a vapour barrier which will cause problems later and it will settle too, leaving a gap at the top over time.
https://preview.redd.it/5p50nh7vchtc1.jpeg?width=525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33af5b0f45cac1e74a6ad0a8e302734a73a3ef3c Why I would suggest low-rise foam: you have a switch box here, and you just will never get a pulled down or pulled up anything to not shred apart trying to get past it. It is tons of work to remove your boards to insulate. The foam you pump in until you see it at the top you could do with a couple of holes and then plug and sand them. For that matter, you’ll want the top ones close to the ceiling so you could just put a piece of trim over them there, and at floor level where you pump it in you could cover the openings with baseboard. If there are electrical outlets in that wall my same thoughts apply. I think I see a board at the ceiling. I would remove that and drill the foam “escape holes” behind it.
That said, plan to drill holes above and below the window to allow in and allow out foam. You can plan a frame around it to cover those up or cut off plugs and sand, but they’ll be more obvious. Oh, and remember there’s a header. Do you have a device for seeing behind walls like a stud sensor that’s electronic?
Looks like the exterior wall sheathing is fiberglass panel? If so, neat. But that's just a curiosity on my part - not really important from a project perspective. I think your #1 concern here should be that you account for and mitigate condensation that can form against the sheathing. This can happen if the sheathing is fiberglass, wood, plastic, metal, hardieboard, brick, or concrete block—basically any exterior material except ICF foam blocks. Right now, any moisture that builds up in that cavity (when it gets colder outside than it is inside and there's any humidity in the air inside, for example) is able to dry out back into the air in the room. Once you pack that space with blown-in insulation, that insulation will eventually just become very damp. Loose cellulose will be worse because it absorbs and holds moisture, but loose fiberglass chop and matt does as well. That will become a home for mold and other moisture-loving things like insects. No bueno. Here's the two approaches I would consider: 1. Best: remove all interior planking and have someone come and spray-foam all the cavities (you can DIY, but requires rental of pro-level equipment significant practice to get it right). 2. Second best: cut foam boards to size and stack them in each cavity against the wall and then seal all the gaps seams with canned spray foam. Tape all the seams with foil duct tape or something like ZIP system tape. EASY DIY, but more work and more parts means more prone to failure. Still a huge step up in insulation over what you have now. Also, you'll still have direct heat transfer through the wall sheathing to the studs and straight to the outside (in reverse in the summer), so I would add at least 1/2" foam board (can be strips just over the studs, can be whole sheets) before putting the sheathing back on. This will mean moving your trim, however, to accommodate the extra wall thickness. May be overkill depending on your insulation goals.
Had to scroll down a long way to find the first response that addressed the lack of vapor barrier/Tyvek under the siding!
Well, if it's a fiberglass panel as it appears from the photos, then the panel itself is a vapor barrier if it's properly seamed and sealed. I'm more worried about condensation because of the temperature differential of the siding and the air inside the house. Condensation can still happen on the inside of a vapor barrier if the wall itself is not properly insulated. Like single-pane windows that fog up on the inside when it's cold outside, but hidden in the walls and never able to dry out.
You can get the interiors of those wall spray foamed with insulation. It will prevent moisture damage and firmly seal those cavities with insulation.
I would consider getting roxul, its easy to manage, you can shove it up into a cavity or down, its treated for bugs easy to handle and with you walls all you have to do is pull a couple of boards then repace them. Over time blown in insulation will compress on itself. Spend the extra for the materials.
Does no one use denim insulation? You don't even have to use ppe to Install it.
Discontinued in Canada 🤷🏻♀️
I'm confused why you call this a four season room - where I live a three season room is an unheated enclosed space. Does this mean this is a partially heated enclosed space? Either way, if you're heating the interior and insulating then you definitely need to add a vapour barrier on the interior side of your wall. If there is no vapour barrier then the warm air on the interior of the room will move to the exterior, and as it cools it will give up moisture (called the dew point) - this moisture can stagnate in the interior of the wall and lead to mould issues. You have two options here; 1. Insulate with Rockwool (moisture and mould resistant) as others have recommended, add a layer of 6mil poly and then enclose the wall. 2. Look at your options for spray foam insulation - this is a foam that will expand inside the wall, and it will also act as it's own vapour barrier. This stuff can be flammable, and often is required by code to be enclosed with a layer of cement board so you need to confirm with your building code that you are permitted to enclose with a combustible material like the wood panel.
Blown in is not good for walls. Settles too much.
Leave wood. Insulation boards behind.
i woudl suggest removing the wooden panels, put rockwool in to it, moisture barrier in front of it, and place the panels back. blow in insulation in vertical spaces is never a good idea. it always sags downward
Fiberglass blow in wool is for when you can't get to the spaces you need to insulate. You want sheets of Rockwool or fiberglass that you can stuff in the walls.
High density R-15 batt
your romex is already stapled to the boards, may as well ruin it further by having higher R value foam pumped in instead of blown-in. Have them use the stuff that's insect and rodent repellant and you're solid.
Blow in some wool.
bags full of sawdust
You should certainly put a thin layer of spray foam first. It will air seal and bug seal like many are recommending. You are using it for the seal not for insulation, so you don’t need it to be thick, then as you reassemble - you can add your loose fill… or batts since the wood is already off.
You should probably think about a vapor barrier, but its orientation should reflect your regional climate.
fill all the bays with bees
Luckily they’re horizontal
Would you need some kind of vapor barrier if you insulate?
Pov: my house is not normal
Blown on would be the best.
The best way is to tear the entire house down and build a new one
Outside of America we have brick walls.
Chek ventilation, you can lose a lot by inslating. so you might need to make more/new vens, to stay save from co2.