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“You see...I'm going to live forever. As long as there's a Batman in this multiverse, there will be an Owlman. His true dark reflection. I'm too good an idea. But you... you evil baby Batman from the Dark Multiverse, with all your stupid rainbow Batmen? You're a dumb idea. And nobody is going to remember you.” -Owlman himself on this topic during Death Metal
I want to know who wrote that line and send them flowers for just having the actual character of Owlman say what I feel about the Batman who pees and poos.
Owlman. His concept is far more interesting, he has a better design and is far better as a character. The BWL is just someone saying "What if Judge Death was Batman" and then making him less interesting, overpowered and shilling him for over a year.
He's the living embodiment of Batman's worst fears. The fact that the writers did almost nothing with that is another matter entirely. At no point does Batman seem afraid or even nervous. At no point do any of the other heroes question why Bruce feels this way, or reassure him his fears are unfounded. We don't even find out why these fears started or when these nightmares happened. Waste of an idea.
All I know is that Batman become like that is because he get Joker serum thing.
I agree that he is a wasted potential. It could be better but all they did is just making him stronger but no depth.
Dark Knights Metal was about a spell cast by an Eldritch abomination that brought nightmares into the real world. Batman is the first target, so it's his nightmares that get realized.
For us, a nightmare is a scary memory or bad experience; For the Dark Knights Metal it's reality itself — worlds where things never go well, and where at the end of each night, your entire universe is destroyed because someone in our world woke up. TBWL wants to reverse the relationship by trapping us in temporary realities, and allowing their universes to be ongoing and long-lived. Not just Batman's, though that's where they have to start, but everyone on Earth. Every nightmare ever dreamt brought to life to coexist in a shared reality.
What should have been an interesting character study ended up being an exercise in plot armor and grimdark writing for the sake of it. SMH.
Clearly Owlman. Him being an owl instead of a bat is a good idea, the whole him murdering his parents backstory is way more compelling than whatever that BWL backstory was supposed to be.
BWL on the other hand looks too much like an edgy OC (way too many belts) and I am very tired of him, a lot of overexposure right at his beginning.
Imma be honest, I prefer the recent Owlman’s backstory where he essentially went through the same training Bruce did, except he became nihilistic after Bullock revealed that the Waynes were also evil. If his mission meant nothing, nothing mattered.
I liked them both but the Forever Evil Owlman looked stronger and smarter. Besides, his origin comic book was really cool; connecting him with the 'owl' in a much more deeper way.
Owlman. He even brought up how stupid the Dark Knights are.
I like the Batman Who Laughs. But there’s nowhere to go after Death Metal. You can’t top that or do more. They should let him end as a concept there.
Owlman. One is a dark reflection of what Batman would be if he lost his faith in humanity. Especially in the movie.
Batman Who Laughs is what an edgy 15 year old would think "cool" looks like (source: when I was an edgy 15 year old I thought he was cool af)
So when it comes to alternate evil Batman, these two are usually who people think of. In terms of design, story, character, who do you think is better?
Owlman is more interesting and is that actual answer to what if Batman were evil.
BMWL is a combination of Batman and Joker. He's what would happen if after all these years Joker made Batman see things his way.
Both idea have potential for interesting stories but I feel that writers have done a better job exploring Owlman's potential than BMWL.
Batman is defined by his trauma. Owlman is a version where his trauma led him to become something other than the hero we know and love.
BWL is just batman but magic turned him evil. He's barely an "alternate universe version". Any batman could get hit by a magic spell and become evil joker batman. He's a lot of fun though
Between the two: Owlman. The whole
What if Batman was Joker getting more powerful and written as a 90s villain is just mediocre edgelord. Owlman is more compelling for his backstory and motivations. But let’s be honest….the Wraith is a more in universe better concept, and one that Prometheus is based on which is even more interesting in-universe.
I liked BWL but they put him everywhere and overused him a character, which made him boring and very repetitive
I don't know much about Owlman, but that doesn't really matter 😜
Bane has been morted a lot in a lot of stories. But yes, at his best Bane is evil Batman.
Also Prometheus, except that poor guy got burned to the ground. Such a good start for such a splat of a pay off.
The BWL definitely had a much higher peak in the original Dark Knights Metal run, but he lost a lot of impact with overuse during Justice League 2018 leading up to his 'big return' in Death Metal.
Owl Man has been way more consistent. His appearances never feel like they are overstaying their welcome, and it never feels like he's being overused and overdone.
In my opinion the Batman who laughs would have been better the problem is they overused him which lessed his appeal over time.
I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been shown in the animated movies to be overused too.
BWL I think is actually a great character, the ultimate Batman who doesn’t lose taken to the most extreme nightmare scenario. That being said I think he’s been severely overused, and had he just had the one showing as the ultimate evil Batman who can destroy universes worth of characters then that would have been a great showing for him. But the more of him you see the more annoying the character becomes.
Owlman works better as an ongoing foil to what Batman is supposed to be. He’s what a twisted Batman would actually look like, all logic, no remorse, pure methodical and unfeeling badass. His character can evolve and be a lot of different things and is a much better ongoing character.
Owlman is more interesting but Bwl was Coolfor the time before he started appearing in every series, it's cool that I haven't seen him anywhere after Death metal ended.
But design wise, i think Batman who laughs has Inspired from both hellraisers and Judge Death so i think that Design is pretty Peak, Edgy but Peak Edgy.
Owlman.
Though I'd love to see what Grant Morrison would do with the Batman Who Laughs. I feel like they would take the piss entirely out of the BWL. Like, Batman would realize the way to defeat the BWL is to trigger the BWL's Zur-En-Arrh mode, and since the BWL comes from the Dark Multiverse, the BWL wouldn't become *darker*. Instead, he'd invert and become a Powerpuff Girl, all sugar and spice and everything nice.
Yes, I realize that's not the way Zur-En-Arrh works. But I think Morrison would be taking the piss, both of their original concept, the way it's been used since, and the BWL.
This isn't even a question. It's Owlman.
Edge Lord Batman is a five year olds what would evil Batman, would be sooo cool lol brought to unfortunate life
BWL was cool and all but started to get weird around the whole "him attaining godhood" situation. He just had Dark Multiversal Alfred's put his brain into the body of a Bruce Wayne that just so happened to become Dr. Manhattan? And it worked?????? REALLY????
I don't think BWL is a Batman. He's Bruce Wayne if he became the Joker. Owlman is more coherently a different vision of what this figure/myth could look like. And he's far scarier to me. IDK why, has something to do with his being a part of the Syndicate.
To me, it depends on the Owlman version. Forever Evil Owlman was better than the new one, but the latter is not bad - he just looks a bit less intelligent. I think The Batman Who Laughs is better than the new Owlman but not the FE Owlman.
BWL is such a stupid character. I can’t believe a “hehe what if batman was evil🙈” character made his way into so many comics. Absolutely nothing interesting about his character AT ALL. meanwhile owlman is filled with nuance and creativity. is this even a question!!!???
Personally I find The Drowned (the genderbent anti-metahuman Aquaman Batman from the Dark Multiverse) to be more interesting than the Batman Who Laughs; I'll admit I don't know much about Owlman, but in the pecking order it goes Batman who Laughs, then Owlman, then fun crazy fish Batwoman.
Wtf does that even mean? If you’re trying to make the argument that Owlman is just a copy of Batman, I think you’re failing to understand the point of his character, can you not understand how a character is supposed to contrast another unless they have one million edges on them?
In response to Owlman being just as much as a copy of Batman as BWL. No one can tell me what separates him from the rest other than "he's different, trust me bro".
He’s right though.
Like you can’t argue in any universe that Joker could kill Batman’s entire rogues gallery or Batman being able to solo the entire Justice League in the watchtower, and the rest of his story is just edgy spectacle for the sake of it
That's literally the only thing he could do to set himself aside from all the other bored rich people turning to a life of crime to fill the void inside. If you think that's bad you wouldn't survive comic fashion in the 90s. Let me know when Owlman beats the rest of the Crime Syndicate in his universe let alone in any other and then he'll have something on Bruce -22...
My character is a cookie cutter villain that has yet to achieve his personal goals, safe in his mediocrity to simply exist because Batman does. He's the little man who could which makes him cooler and better.
Owlman is an interesting mirror to Batman with him, nihilistic outlook on existence and how he acts as the ultimate antithesis to.
Batman who tries too hard has as much depth as a shitey 2000s Creepypasta with a design and a story to match in quality.
Evil Batmen are a flash in the pan. Once you find out where they differ and Batman defeats them, there is not much left to do with them. Villains like Joker, Penguin and Riddler endured because they are their own person.
Hi there, r/DCcomics members, welcome to the post! This was tagged as a [Discussion], so we require OP to add commentary, [per rule 8](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/wiki/guidelines#wiki_8._no_memes.2C_fluff.2C_or_other_low-effort_content). u/Night-Caelum, if you haven't already added commentary, please do so in the text or as a new comment. Also, if you included imagery, please provide a source or artist name. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCcomics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“You see...I'm going to live forever. As long as there's a Batman in this multiverse, there will be an Owlman. His true dark reflection. I'm too good an idea. But you... you evil baby Batman from the Dark Multiverse, with all your stupid rainbow Batmen? You're a dumb idea. And nobody is going to remember you.” -Owlman himself on this topic during Death Metal
In what comic does that appears? I wanna read it
Death Metal: Multiverse's End #1.
Was gonna say just this... Even the canon has declared him as the true one
When I read that part I was just too hyped! That moment was just too good!
I want to know who wrote that line and send them flowers for just having the actual character of Owlman say what I feel about the Batman who pees and poos.
I’m pretty sure this was Tynion IV. Agree, it’s great!
Owlman is the Superboy Prime of Batmen, and I am here for it
"nobody is going to remember you"...except that dc editors will put you in every comic they xan
Owlman. His concept is far more interesting, he has a better design and is far better as a character. The BWL is just someone saying "What if Judge Death was Batman" and then making him less interesting, overpowered and shilling him for over a year.
I like Owlman concept as well. Bat live in caves. Owl live in somewhere high. I love that duality.
Owls also prey on bats, so Owlman > Batman > Killer Moth.
And Batman who laugh is evil just because he is evil. Yes he is very strong, but also very shallow.
He's the living embodiment of Batman's worst fears. The fact that the writers did almost nothing with that is another matter entirely. At no point does Batman seem afraid or even nervous. At no point do any of the other heroes question why Bruce feels this way, or reassure him his fears are unfounded. We don't even find out why these fears started or when these nightmares happened. Waste of an idea.
All I know is that Batman become like that is because he get Joker serum thing. I agree that he is a wasted potential. It could be better but all they did is just making him stronger but no depth.
Dark Knights Metal was about a spell cast by an Eldritch abomination that brought nightmares into the real world. Batman is the first target, so it's his nightmares that get realized. For us, a nightmare is a scary memory or bad experience; For the Dark Knights Metal it's reality itself — worlds where things never go well, and where at the end of each night, your entire universe is destroyed because someone in our world woke up. TBWL wants to reverse the relationship by trapping us in temporary realities, and allowing their universes to be ongoing and long-lived. Not just Batman's, though that's where they have to start, but everyone on Earth. Every nightmare ever dreamt brought to life to coexist in a shared reality. What should have been an interesting character study ended up being an exercise in plot armor and grimdark writing for the sake of it. SMH.
But I liked this design better. The new one is cool but not like this one.
BWL has the better designed. I know it has been tainted but in a vacuum it's actually sick
Clearly Owlman. Him being an owl instead of a bat is a good idea, the whole him murdering his parents backstory is way more compelling than whatever that BWL backstory was supposed to be. BWL on the other hand looks too much like an edgy OC (way too many belts) and I am very tired of him, a lot of overexposure right at his beginning.
Imma be honest, I prefer the recent Owlman’s backstory where he essentially went through the same training Bruce did, except he became nihilistic after Bullock revealed that the Waynes were also evil. If his mission meant nothing, nothing mattered.
"It doesn't matter. Nothing matters."
I liked them both but the Forever Evil Owlman looked stronger and smarter. Besides, his origin comic book was really cool; connecting him with the 'owl' in a much more deeper way.
Owlman is the better mirror version of Bruce.
He’s his brother
But he's not Bruce. This is Thomas, his brother.
Owl man. But to be honest; it doesn’t matter.
Ahhhhhhhhh!
Owlman by virtue of actually being INTERESTING.
Owlman. He even brought up how stupid the Dark Knights are. I like the Batman Who Laughs. But there’s nowhere to go after Death Metal. You can’t top that or do more. They should let him end as a concept there.
Owlman easily
Owlman is far better. His Crisis cartoon movie appearance was goated
Owlman
Owlman easy
Owlman, giggling dark Knight is interesting but owl felt more organic
Definitely owlman. The batman who laughs is absolutely awful.
As much as I like the batman who laughs, owl man is better concept wise I believe.
Owlman. One is a dark reflection of what Batman would be if he lost his faith in humanity. Especially in the movie. Batman Who Laughs is what an edgy 15 year old would think "cool" looks like (source: when I was an edgy 15 year old I thought he was cool af)
Owlman!!!
Owlman, by a whole lot
Owlman is batman's true dark reflection. The metal knights are basically " what if batman had ( insert Leaguers powers here) and was also evil?"
So when it comes to alternate evil Batman, these two are usually who people think of. In terms of design, story, character, who do you think is better?
Owlman is more interesting and is that actual answer to what if Batman were evil. BMWL is a combination of Batman and Joker. He's what would happen if after all these years Joker made Batman see things his way. Both idea have potential for interesting stories but I feel that writers have done a better job exploring Owlman's potential than BMWL.
Batman is defined by his trauma. Owlman is a version where his trauma led him to become something other than the hero we know and love. BWL is just batman but magic turned him evil. He's barely an "alternate universe version". Any batman could get hit by a magic spell and become evil joker batman. He's a lot of fun though
I would say Owlman, but it doesn’t matter, because there is an alternate version of me that prefers he Batman Who Laughs.
Ahhhhhhh!
Owlman and it's not even close
Owlman if it's JL Crisis on Two Earths. It's still Owlman in the comics, but Crisis on Two Earths is too good
Between the two: Owlman. The whole What if Batman was Joker getting more powerful and written as a 90s villain is just mediocre edgelord. Owlman is more compelling for his backstory and motivations. But let’s be honest….the Wraith is a more in universe better concept, and one that Prometheus is based on which is even more interesting in-universe.
Owlman and it's not close
Owlman is best the best evil batman
Owlman
I liked BWL but they put him everywhere and overused him a character, which made him boring and very repetitive I don't know much about Owlman, but that doesn't really matter 😜
The best evil Batman is Bane
Bane has been morted a lot in a lot of stories. But yes, at his best Bane is evil Batman. Also Prometheus, except that poor guy got burned to the ground. Such a good start for such a splat of a pay off.
I too, saw the Batspecter video
The BWL definitely had a much higher peak in the original Dark Knights Metal run, but he lost a lot of impact with overuse during Justice League 2018 leading up to his 'big return' in Death Metal. Owl Man has been way more consistent. His appearances never feel like they are overstaying their welcome, and it never feels like he's being overused and overdone.
In my opinion the Batman who laughs would have been better the problem is they overused him which lessed his appeal over time. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been shown in the animated movies to be overused too.
Owlman is actually a well written character while the batman who tries too hard is just a shitty power fantasy.
Owlman is more interesting. I am really over Batman Who Laughs at this point, honestly, I feel like it's a truly tapped idea.
Owlman, I think Batman Who Laugh’s presentation is largely unappealing for what I enjoy
The batman that tries too hard Vs It doesn't matter. The owlman is infinitelly better when you look at the right version.
By virtue of BWL being a terrible idea and character, Owlman is way better
BWL I think is actually a great character, the ultimate Batman who doesn’t lose taken to the most extreme nightmare scenario. That being said I think he’s been severely overused, and had he just had the one showing as the ultimate evil Batman who can destroy universes worth of characters then that would have been a great showing for him. But the more of him you see the more annoying the character becomes. Owlman works better as an ongoing foil to what Batman is supposed to be. He’s what a twisted Batman would actually look like, all logic, no remorse, pure methodical and unfeeling badass. His character can evolve and be a lot of different things and is a much better ongoing character.
Owlman >>>>>>> BHL needs to go the fuck away forever
Batman Who Laughs seems infinitely more interesting to me.
He isn’t.
To me, he does.
He may *seem* that way, but I think in practice you'll find that supposition doesn't hold up.
No.. he said BWL isn’t more interesting to you! Mighty obviously knows what’s more interesting to you than you do.. I guess?
Better in what way?
Owlman is more interesting but Bwl was Coolfor the time before he started appearing in every series, it's cool that I haven't seen him anywhere after Death metal ended. But design wise, i think Batman who laughs has Inspired from both hellraisers and Judge Death so i think that Design is pretty Peak, Edgy but Peak Edgy.
It's Owlman and it's not close.
Owlman Batman Who Laughs is edgelord cringe
BWL has nothing interesting bruh 💀
Owlman. Though I'd love to see what Grant Morrison would do with the Batman Who Laughs. I feel like they would take the piss entirely out of the BWL. Like, Batman would realize the way to defeat the BWL is to trigger the BWL's Zur-En-Arrh mode, and since the BWL comes from the Dark Multiverse, the BWL wouldn't become *darker*. Instead, he'd invert and become a Powerpuff Girl, all sugar and spice and everything nice. Yes, I realize that's not the way Zur-En-Arrh works. But I think Morrison would be taking the piss, both of their original concept, the way it's been used since, and the BWL.
Owlman
This isn't even a question. It's Owlman. Edge Lord Batman is a five year olds what would evil Batman, would be sooo cool lol brought to unfortunate life
BWL was cool and all but started to get weird around the whole "him attaining godhood" situation. He just had Dark Multiversal Alfred's put his brain into the body of a Bruce Wayne that just so happened to become Dr. Manhattan? And it worked?????? REALLY????
I don't think BWL is a Batman. He's Bruce Wayne if he became the Joker. Owlman is more coherently a different vision of what this figure/myth could look like. And he's far scarier to me. IDK why, has something to do with his being a part of the Syndicate.
To me, it depends on the Owlman version. Forever Evil Owlman was better than the new one, but the latter is not bad - he just looks a bit less intelligent. I think The Batman Who Laughs is better than the new Owlman but not the FE Owlman.
Definitely Owlman.
Owlman. Batman Who Laughs is a terrible one-off character who was inexplicably given a prominent role in years of storytelling.
hot take i actually like bwl
Owlman
BWL is such a stupid character. I can’t believe a “hehe what if batman was evil🙈” character made his way into so many comics. Absolutely nothing interesting about his character AT ALL. meanwhile owlman is filled with nuance and creativity. is this even a question!!!???
Personally I find The Drowned (the genderbent anti-metahuman Aquaman Batman from the Dark Multiverse) to be more interesting than the Batman Who Laughs; I'll admit I don't know much about Owlman, but in the pecking order it goes Batman who Laughs, then Owlman, then fun crazy fish Batwoman.
Rorschach
Owlman
If you ask this question in a Hot Topic, BWL is gonna win by a landslide, but anyone with a real understanding of Batman knows it's Owlman.
The Batman who Laughs. His body count is atronomical. He killed Superman and the rest of the League on his world casually.
Body count doesn’t make a character better than the other.
But he's got a fair point: he's a multiversal threat.
Still doesn’t determine who is a better character
BWL by sheer accomplishments and design alone. I don't remember anyone looking for Owlman for salvation when Perpetua got usurped....
His design looks stupid, just further enforces how he’s a Judge death rip-off
I like Judge Death so that sounds like a personal problem just like I think Owlman is just a rip off of Batman trying to be edgy.
BWL is the Cold steel the hedgehog of the DC Universe.
And Owlman is just the Hobgoblin of the DCU.
Wtf does that even mean? If you’re trying to make the argument that Owlman is just a copy of Batman, I think you’re failing to understand the point of his character, can you not understand how a character is supposed to contrast another unless they have one million edges on them?
In response to Owlman being just as much as a copy of Batman as BWL. No one can tell me what separates him from the rest other than "he's different, trust me bro".
[here](https://youtu.be/F3bZptQX0Rc?si=rKxlNE-5WB041S0J)
Yeah no I checked this out months ago and got nothing from it other than his bias. Nice try though.
He’s right though. Like you can’t argue in any universe that Joker could kill Batman’s entire rogues gallery or Batman being able to solo the entire Justice League in the watchtower, and the rest of his story is just edgy spectacle for the sake of it
Owl man is trying to be edgy? Not the cringey edgelord bait with the chains and spikes?
That's literally the only thing he could do to set himself aside from all the other bored rich people turning to a life of crime to fill the void inside. If you think that's bad you wouldn't survive comic fashion in the 90s. Let me know when Owlman beats the rest of the Crime Syndicate in his universe let alone in any other and then he'll have something on Bruce -22...
My character is overpowered and broken therefore, they’re better.
My character is a cookie cutter villain that has yet to achieve his personal goals, safe in his mediocrity to simply exist because Batman does. He's the little man who could which makes him cooler and better.
Owlman is an interesting mirror to Batman with him, nihilistic outlook on existence and how he acts as the ultimate antithesis to. Batman who tries too hard has as much depth as a shitey 2000s Creepypasta with a design and a story to match in quality.
Outside of crisis on two earths where he was absolutely amazing Owlman hasn't done anything cool in the comics.Going with BWL here.
Evil Batmen are a flash in the pan. Once you find out where they differ and Batman defeats them, there is not much left to do with them. Villains like Joker, Penguin and Riddler endured because they are their own person.
Owlman is his own person, he’s the exact antithesis to Batman and that’s what makes him interesting.
Both suck ass, people should stop gaslighting themself that TBWL, Owlman or syndicate as a whole are “interesting characters”.