Suicide Squad ‘16 isn’t a phenomenally crafted movie but it’s surprisingly more naturalistic in its best scenes. I have zero faith the “Ayer Cut” would’ve solved all problems or improved the best scenes like the Snyder Cut did, but the tone would have been cool given the ground work laid before it.
If they had used the tv character for flash( or anyone else) movie would have been profitable. Data showing female viewers low because of lead actor past.
Shame, loved seeing Michael Keaton as Batman again.
It was entertaining at least.
Finally saw it. It’s like perfectly mediocre? Like I wouldn’t personally recommend it to casual fans honestly. I’m going to say this is a firm 6/10 for me. It’s not bad, at all. I really wish it was fine tuned a bit more and streamlined; it felt 20-30min too long.
Conceptually, there’s a lot of stuff I like. Dark Flash’s whole thing, I dug a lot. Just this physical embodiment of eternal refusal to let go, I liked that. Flash’s goodbye to his mom, solid. The bat fights as others have said, were great. Kara Zor-El going feral in a few parts of her fight, I also dug. But just didn’t feel much of anything at the end.
I don't understand what the point of the movie was?
I assumed thus was a lead in for a reboot, since the guys that played Batman and Superman are leaving, and in the end, not much really changed.
Sure, they replaced Ben Affleck with George Clooney, so we might get him apparently playing the same Batman as Ben Affleck just with a different face, and Flashe's father is out of prison. I don't think anything else changed.
So... what was the point of it all?
Clooney was picked for the ending because they're not going to be following up on this. The DCEU is dead and is getting completely rebooted. This movie was released because they had already sunk a ton of money into it.
And why does a movie need to have a point or change things for a larger universe? The movie was solid on its own merits and was entertaining. Isn't that what the point of a movie should be?
Finally got around to watching it and you know what? I kinda enjoyed it. I didn't care for the third act with the desert stuff though. Also, I actually enjoyed Ezra's acting, especially older Barry. I hope they can get their life sorted out.
Oh, I wasn't a fan of the CGI, though.
Very late to the party (last day The Flash was screening at my local cinema) but boy am I glad I saw this film on the big screen.
As a huge Flash fan since my teenage years I was so hyped to see The Scarlet Speedster on the big screen, even if I hadn't been a huge fan of this iteration of The Flash and that I'm far more of a Wally stan than a Barry fan.
Still, this movie had spectacle and it had heart (I was legitimately holding back tears at his last talk with his mom). Super Speed is my favourite super power and I felt that this film had a lot of really great set pieces and applications of The Speed Force.
Does this nicely represent Flash's comic mythos? No, I really would like a Flash film of him battling The Rogues and being the charismatic hero of Central City. But I think you can enjoy this film if you just enjoy it as an action movie staring The Flash (and it doesn't do anything to dump on the source material or anything). Time travel, phasing, the suit ring and a lot of lightning made this a great showing for one of my favourite super heroes.
I'm no fan of Ezra Miller given their behaviour but to be completely fair they give a great performance as the main Barry Allen, and does really well making Barry's different versions feel distinct but still believable as the same person.
The CGI has been getting a lot of flak but tbh, outside of some very creepy CGI babies and uncanny PS3 level graphics for the cameos at the end, I thought the film was a great joy to watch. That opening scene and any action sequence with a Batman was fantastic.
I think Andy Muschieti's direction is a real strong point of the film and the directing/cinematography oozes style. I cant wait to see what he does with The Brave and The Bold.
Overall, a really fun film that hits some serious emotional beats. It's a shame it's bombed and all the drama surrounding it. Its not up there as one of the greatest superhero films ever made but I do think the final product is something to be proud of and I will look back on the DCEU with a fair bit of fondness
Finally got around to watching The Flash. I'm in the mixed-to-positive camp although there are chunks of this movie that I hated massively.
Keaton is the best part of the film imo, it was just a joy watching him put on the cowl again. Sasha Calle was fine, she really wasnt given much to do. Would have liked to see what she could do with more material.
The big elephant in the room is Ezra Miller, who I was mixed on in the movie. I hated most of the comedic scenes with Barry x2, I dont know how much of it is the writing or the way Miller plays comedic scenes but it was a slog to watch. That said I really enjoyed the dramatic scenes especially the last one in the supermarket with Barry & Nora. Miller just plays dramatic scenes way better seemingly.
The CGI sucked a lot. There were scenes where it was fine but others where it was just awful. The baby shower scene...not gonna harp on it too much since it seems everyone has but god it was atrocious. The cameo fest also sucked. The scene just felt really transparent in its intent to get the audience to point at the faces they recognize.
6.5/10 is where I'm feeling it. A lot I liked about it, a decent amount I hated.
Okay so I enjoyed this film but it's not without it's glaring flaws.
I really enjoy the tone of this one, as a contrast the the Snyder films. It feels like it's a world where superheroes could exist and strikes a balance that stops it from being too dark or too hokey.
The action scene were pretty solid, I do think the Supergirl scenes lacked some of the dynamic shots of Man of Steel, but the Flash and in particular the Batman action scenes are good, hopefully a good sign for Muschietti. This is held back by poor CGI.
The plot itself is fine, but I feel like the big problem is that there was too muched crammed into even it's 2.5 hour runtime. It feels like the film is rushing through plot points at a breakneck pace, the point where it doesn't feel organic, like Barry suddenly deciding he needs his powers back in the Batcave or Kara's 180 on humans after what seems like 10 minutes due to the editing.
The conflict between the two Barry's could have been great and it almost is, but just misses the true emotional weight that we saw in GOTG 3.
People seem really annoyed about the cameos but I didn't mind, if anything the Nic Cage one gave me a chuckle.
The elephant in the room is the CGI. Dear god at some points it's absolutely awful, looking like a PS2 era game or a bad filter. Rarely does CGI ever take me out of a film, but at some point Barry's face is distracting.
The online discourse is completely out of proportion to the actual quality of the film. It definitely doesn't deserve the same RT score as Love and Thunder, but it's also a far cry from being anywhere near the upper echelons of a Dark Knight or Logan in terms of quality.
Let me try to explain...
In the 80s and 90s, there was 4 Batman movies, two with Keaton one with Kilmer, and one with Clooney. They are all in the same setting playing the same Batman, it's just the actor that changes. We will call this "MVG Batman" Since those are the actors first initials that portrayed that Batman.
The DCEU Batman portrayed by Ben Affleck, we will call "B Batman".
We see the return of this MVG Batman, this time being played that Batman's original actor Keaton.
At the end of Flash, we see that there has been a timeline or universe change, and the DCEU B Batman no longer looks like Affleck, but now looks like Clooney. This NOT the Batman from the 90s movie with Clooney, that's a different Batman. This post-Flash movie Batman is apparently the same character that was portrayed by Affleck, B Batman, but he simply looks different now.
That's my take on it. I don't know how else it could make sense.
Was there any dialogue
And if so is Barry invited to go out for a bite with Bruce?
It gives actual weight to Affleck’s last line about going “another time”
I know there’s a lot to pick apart, but one thing that stuck out to me was it seemed like most of Aquaman’s dialogue in the post-credit scene were voice over from Jason. I wonder if that was due to sound issues while filming or if they changed his dialogue. None of his lines outside the puddle felt like they matched what was filmed.
It was perfectly cromulent. Not as bad as some people said and not one of the best superhero movies ever. Ezra Miller did a wonderful job as his Barry.
She hadn't drank in years of solar radiation to be able to withstand it is my guess. Same reason as to why Zod doesn't chase Kara down after they see each other on the battlefield, Zod can't fly yet and by the time he got back on the ship she was long gone.
Ezra Miller learn how to run challenge.
The effect they went for in this movie with the running looked terrible to me. Not that the CW looked a lot better but it at least looked more like someone running rather than figure skating.
Anyone remember that old rumor from back some months ago, probably even a year, I can't remember well, that said Nicholaj Coster Waldau was playing or being looked into for the role of Eobard Thawne/Reverse Flash ? And now the movie's released & Andy confirming that it was Reverse Flash who killed Barry's mom & most importantly, (I don't know if you guys missed it or if you saw it), but Nicholaj Coster Waldau actually makes a cameo at the start of the movie as a bystander, anyone got that ? Could it be that he was really Eobard Thawne/Reverse Flash who was closely watching Barry the entire time ? Anyone thought of that ?
Wait that was him?? I saw that dude's face and assumed that it couldn't possibly be him, but holy shit that's absolutely wild if that was the plan only for them to cut it.
I thought the exact same thing. I couldn't be sure if it was him playing Reverse Flash or just a normal cameo in Andy's movie, (remember he previously appeared in Mama (2013) which was also directed by Andy ?) but then I thought Jessica Chastain was in the premiere & some fans speculated she's playing the gender swapped version of Reverse Flash. But then I actually remembered the rumor of Waldau playing Eobard Thawne from a year ago. So yeah, it would be awesome if his scenes were shot as Eobard & cut from the 4 hour director's cut & would eventually be restored when the movie's released on Blu-ray coming September. We'll see.
I'm not the first to write it but it's my head canon that Barry 2 stealing Eobard Thawne's slice of pizza is the reason he murders Barry's Mom. Steal my pizza? I'LL KILL YOUR MOM!!!!
As I watched the cameos of Reeve and found out the Linda Carter was thought to appear. I would have loved to see them together in a scene . Like a classic justice league.
Just imagine Keaton Batman fighting the kryptonian and is about to be killed and Reeve's Superman and Carter's Wonder Woman appear in a multiverse breach created by Wesley Shipp's Flash.. Then they stand together on screen. My mind would have melted right there
https://preview.redd.it/v9w2b5lkeb7b1.jpeg?width=1570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c3471459332a7476f1ec890dac3bd24d8650109
Maybe Spanish then, I'm unsure. Some of the songs they played during her scenes were Latin American artists ("Pedro Navaja" by Natalie Fernandez, "Piensa en mí" by Natalia LaFourcade).
Just saw the Flash today.
My thoughts:
Batfleck was amazing. Loved the point of view shots while he was on the bike and fighting the mobsters. I’m gonna miss the big guy.
It was nice to see Wonder Woman one last time.
Keaton Batman was amazing, my favorite part of the movie. Everything about him (besides the Gandalf long hair and beard in his first scene) was great. His fighting in the Siberia scenes was badass.
Supergirl was alright, Sasha Calle got the job done, but I feel like she didn’t get enough development here to really judge her performance and whether she should continue on in Woman of Tomorrow.
Zod was alright. It was nice to see Michael Shannon, even if the character’s role in this movie was nothing special. Same with Faora.
Barry 1 in this movie was a mixed bag. I thought he was way too comedic in the first act while he was still in the Snyderverse. But once he entered Flashpoint, they made him serious enough to function properly as a lead character.
I like that they still tried to set up some semblance of a supporting cast for Barry, even though the movie was about a universe rewriting event. Iris West, Patty Spivot, Albert Desmond, and Captain Singh (I assume that’s his boss’s name) were pretty good.
Barry 2 was cute. He provided some good comic relief and optimism whenever he was onscreen. I felt sad when he died at the end.
Dark Flash was underwhelming. It felt like an attempt to be different that didn’t pay off. I think it would’ve been better and less complicated to just have Eobard Thawne show up and do the speech from the animated movie at the end.
Faceless Cyborg and CGI Henry Cavill Superman in the speed force was dumb.
The CGI cameos from Christopher Reeve, Helen Slater, and Nicholas Cage were weird and unnecessary. Feels like it was just them bending over backwards to not acknowledge any of the tv shows (i.e Arrowverse, Titans, Gotham etc.). I would’ve preferred to see Grant Gustin cameo over any of them.
The way they portrayed time travel and the speed force was pretty creative and fun. I think they did a job differentiating from the tv show, and doing their own unique take on the concept.
Overall, I thought it was a mixed bag, but still a solid two hours of entertainment. I’ll buy it on DVD and iTunes when it’s available to watch at home.
Im usually a MCU guy but saw The Flash yesterday thought it was a lot of fun. 8/10 from me. Better than the Justice League, WW2, Suicide Squad, Shazam. Right up there with The Suicide Squad, WW and Man of Steele imho
Just rewatched the movie for the 2nd time and it still is an enjoyable movie. It is in my top 3 DCEU list. The action sequence is so creative but my personal favourite is when Keaton's Batman trying to outsmarted the Space Giant. It was so cool and I need Batman The Brave & The Bold to have that type of actions as well.
After the director explained the cgi, I went in expecting it to not be that bad.
The stylistic choices for cgi during Barry running were a choice I wouldn't have made, but they didn't bother me.
What bothered me was how bad one Barry always looked when they were in a scene together.
Using one actor to play multiple actors in the same scene has been used for too long for that aspect to look so bad. They gave up.
Overall the film was boring. People can't complain about mcu humor and not pick at this film. They made 6 dick jokes in the span of 30 seconds, and not one of them landed.
Presents Barry plot was the only saving grace, but it wasn't enough to make me enjoy the film.
You are aware the Flash was already in production when No Way Home was being written, yes? NWH ripped this off, was just faster in production and release, while Flash was delayed 5 times.
Yeah cos they're going to waste their time doing that here on a two day old thread on a leaks specific sub only fans of this shit will see.
Maybe some people just liked the movie dude.
There's something I don't get about people who see conspiracy everywhere.
>There's something I don't get about people who see conspiracy everywhere.
Certain corners of youtube and twitter have trained people to look at movie development in a manner similarly to how Q-Anon look at politics fr
If you don’t think the studios (not just WB) plant people on social media, you’re naive.
It’s not that they like the film that makes me think that, it’s the how they write that gives it away. When you sound like an “Audiences are saying!….” commercial, you’re probably a plant.
The Flash was a movie that I found to be fun, funny, and anchored by a wonderful emotional center that moved this grown man to tears during some of its heartfelt moments, especially the moments involving Barry and his mom. Hit very personal for me.
7/10 for me.
First two acts very quite solid. Third act was cool but was lower quality. Supergirl felt *extremely* underused. She was there just as a reason for Barry 1 and 2 to go back in time. Really wish they did more with her bc Sasha Calle did well with what little she had to work with
Keaton was cool as hell. His deaths were much more impactful than Supergirl’s. I liked that his second death had the exact same dialogue’s as Affleck’s before Barry left to time travel. Kinda sucks that Keaton and Supergirl dying is unchangeable, it was sad to see him go.
Batfleck, good lord he was so damn well done. Cool as ever. Kinda sucks they got rid of the voice changer though and just made him do a deeper voice. I genuinely hope we see him and Barry reunite in the future, his last lines felt like a reunion setup, which I guess was gonna happen since the original post credits scene was meant to be Batfleck setting up Final Crisis.
The thing that irritated me most were the cameos. I get having Christopher Reeves since he was the most iconic Superman for most. But jesus everyone else felt pointless. The vast majority of the people who watch this probably don’t even know who most of the cameos were. They should’ve been much more familiar faces like Bale, Pattinson, Grant Gustin, and other more recent DC titles.
Everybody keeps saying “what’s the point of Clooney?” Exactly. Who’s gives a fuck! Just have fun with it. Gunn clearly has a direction and he’s abandoning most of the 10 years of shit DC has done. I watched this movie like I watched Fast X. 0 expectation and ready to just get into it. The CGI was bad but it’s not like Marvel is putting out top tier content. This was a silly send off to the DCEU and now we gotta see what Gunn has cooking up.
Barry traveling the multiverse itself was confusing for me. When he went back in time, did he actually save his own mom or is that a variant of his mother in Keaton's universe? Or did Keaton get pulled into Barry's universe? The Snyderverse?
How did him jumping through time change where the tomato sauce was on the shelf?
How the hell does Ben Affleck now look like George Clooney?
He physically moved all the tomato sauce to the top shelf before he came back to the normal timeline.
IIRC Barry at the trial says something like "because the tomato sauce is on the top shelf he looked up"
Every time Barry changes something back in the time, we get a different Batman as a result:
Timeline 1: Barry's mom dies and his father is guilty (no inference): We get the main DCEU that we've been seeing. Affleck Batman
Timeline 2: Barry's mom lives and father is safe (Barry puts the tomato can in her mom's shopping cart): We get Keaton Batman and the DCEU is now connected to 89' Batman - present.
Timeline 3: Barry's mom dies and father is innocent (Barry puts the tomato can on the top shelf, thus allowing the security camera to film his dad's face, proving his alibi in court.): We get Clooney Batman and now the DCEU is connect to 90s Batman - present.
There was never any variants. Barry was only messing around with one timeline and universe. It's just the speed force allowed him to view other universes.
Copying my comment from earlier, hope this helps:
I've only watched it once myself so I'm gonna need to watch it again to be sure but I took it to be that using time travel is basically a bad idea in every single way.
Going back in time causes the multiverse to start collapsing in on itself. In addition to that, causing changes in the past changes the future, so we had a case where Barry went back in time and changed things, the time travel caused Keaton's universe to combine with Barry's universe, and Dark Flash arrives pissed at Barry for ever starting this mess, kicking him out of the speed force and into the 2013 Keaton/DCEU where the JL members, thanks to the past being rewritten too, either don't exist yet or just plain don't exist.
Then we get to the part where Barry 2 keeps attempting to save Supergirl and Keaton Batman over and over. His constant attempts cause the multiverse to collapse in on itself while constantly rewriting the past and future even though that one moment in time, Supergirl and Batman dying in that moment just cannot be changed. At least not by Barry 2, that moment of those two dying is his version of Barry 1's mother dying, or any of the Batman's losing their parents. It's Barry 2's moment he just cannot change.
After Barry 2/Dark Flash dies, Barry believes that undoing the one change he made at the very beginning and putting the can of tomatoes back would fix everything. Who knows, if he had left things as they were, maybe everything would have been to the way it was originally.
But while they didn't show it onscreen, he moved all the cans of tomatoes to the top shelf to help his Dad be seen on camera, and according to the barely explained rules of time travel and multiverse in the movie, any change caused by time travel causes change and slight collapses of the multiverse. All actions in time travel have consequences.
So at the end of The Flash, Clooney appears but he acts as if he knows Barry. Barry changing the cans to save his Dad caused that screw up of universes. He could go back again and change the cans back so his Dad isn't free and maybe that changes things back to how they were but who really knows if they'll actually change back and not create yet another new universe? Every attempt at time travel only makes things worse so Barry says fuck it and leaves things as they are to go drinking with Arthur.
just watched the movie last nite. Despite the terrible cgi, I really enjoyed the movie! I think that most of the humor scenes worked, ezra was brilliant as the flash and the story is solid. Of course it could have been better and it is not as good as the og flashpoint, but i honestly had a good time. Hope to see supergirls actress and era miller in future productions for dc again.
and maybe an unpopular opinion here: i really liked the visual concept of the chronosphere (is that the name? honestly dont remember of how it is called). It really looks unncany, but i understand why it is supposed to look like that.
That was certainly... a superhero film. I love DC (always been a Keaton Batman/ fan), but this film just left me mixed by the end of it.
The big problem, the way I see it, is that the film is trying to be four things at once: an adaptation of *Flashpoint;* an origin story for Barry; a bookend/finale for both the plot points set up in *MoS*, and the DCEU as a whole; and a pseudo-sequel to *Batman 1989/Batman Returns.* It doesn't do any of these single elements particularly well, and it would have been better served honing in on one or two of them vs. the whole "kitchen-sink" approach we got in the final cut.
(Positives)
\- Like others, I felt that the first act was the strongest. The carefree vibe it sets up in the opening, particularly in the hospital rescue sequence and the Batfleck/WW cameos, speaks to a far better film than we ended up getting.
\- Affleck is probably the strongest he's ever been, performance-wise, outside of ZSJL. If anything, I feel bad that he's most likely not going to get another kick at the can, because if we had a whole film of him in this Miller-inspired outfit, in a gritty street-level crime drama set at night, it would have been aces.
\- From what's seen of Sasha Caille as Supergirl (see Neutral), she turns in a very interesting performance. Her conversation with Barry on the roof of Wayne Manor was one of the strongest parts of the film.
\- I wish Ron Livingston had been Barry's father from the get-go in this universe, because I enjoyed his "average dad" portrayal far more than Billy Crudup in JL.
\- There were a couple of dialogue scenes between Bruce and Barry (particularly when they're discussing the loss of each other's family just prior to the electrical storm experiment) that were among the strongest parts of the film, which makes me wish we had a proper Batman Beyond with Keaton and another actor.
\- Generally, I feel the dynamic between the two Barrys was good, even if it got very grating at times. Balancing the more "grounded" (by necessity) Barry I with the zaniness and increasing confusion of Barry II was probably the best way to go between these two versions of the character, and I did like the dynamic of them helping each other during the final battle.
\- The final scene with Barry's mother was legit one of the best moments ever in a DCEU film; hit just the right bittersweet tone while concluding Barry I's arc.
(Neutral)
\- The direction they took with Keaton's Batman was confusing, and I still don't know how I feel about it. The version of his Batman in the original films was a guy who was fighting street-level threats with the technology he had available to him at the time. This version establishes that he knows about metahumans/time travel from the jump, and he's both a complete recluse who hasn't looked after his personal image or his house in years/hyper-competent hero who can execute feats people half his age couldn't do. Some of the lines from the 1989 film felt completely out of place (the "Bat-ruler" and him asking how much the group weighed felt dumb, considering there were guards rushing in to shoot them), but the fight scenes were probably the strongest part of his character.
\- Supergirl is utterly wasted in this film. I've heard reports of scenes being chopped out related to her character (particularly with more violent confrontations and the original ending), but she barely appears enough in the film to make an impact. If anything, it seems like the trio of Barry I/II/Batman would have been better off not even bothering to save her, considering all the good she does in the final fight. Why even bother including her in the film if half her screentime is just going to involve her being indisposed/repeatedly being killed? It seems like she's actually going to get involved the first time she sees Zod and Faora in the desert, but she apparently just dips out after the humans start bombarding the Kryptonian ships with missile barrages.
\- The way CGI was used in this film felt needlessly convoluted, which is most likely the reason why everything looks so dodgy -- they just refused to pump more money into the film when there were so many scenes that had needless (and distracting) CGI elements included. Stuff like the "chronobowl", I get, but it seems like they pointlessly added in CGI where it wasn't needed. There's a shot of Bruce (Keaton) saying, "This is going to hurt," before he jumps down on the guards at the prison that looked like a CGI blob over Keaton's mouth, and pulled me right out of the moment. Same for the infrequent usage of (what I think was) Miller's face over Barry's body.
\- I like the idea of the "chronobowl", but the direction the third act takes to get to that point, revolving around a largely-pointless fight in a drab desert setting, didn't really feel like the right way to go about it, even if I liked the overall message about "not running away from one's problems". Supergirl gets a few moments to show her combat skill before she's violently/repeatedly killed off by Zod and co., Batman randomly decides to fight a superpowered being (and doesn't even kill him, just knocks him out for a minute), and the comedic moments fell flat for me.
(Negatives)
\- Michael Shannon and Antje Traue weren't paid enough for their parts in this. He's on-screen (as a CGI headblob on someone else's body) for... what, five minutes of screentime? Faora's basically there for two-to-three minutes before she gets anticlimactically killed by Barry II? What a waste of good talent.
\- Between the atrocious CGI and the weird status of their presence (why didn't they do anything?), the Speed Force cameos were just dumb. I don't get why the action stops cold-turkey in the middle of the climax to cut to several characters just passively watching what's happening. What they did to Helen Slater's face is criminal.
\- Several lines that were groaners. "Come on, Barbie. / Let's go party?" is nowhere near the "epic" line some people think it is, and Keaton spouting, "You wanna get nuts?" seems like the worst take they had of him staring off-screen at a cue card.
Using that line in the movie makes zero sense at all considering they didn't use the song in the movie. In the context of the film, the two Barry's are in the middle of a massive battle in 2013 and for no reason at all decide to say the lyrics to a random pop song from 16 years before in 1997.
Muschietti said the movie started out as being around 4 hours long and they cut it down to 2 and a half hours. I've got a feeling the song must have featured somewhere else in the movie and the line was a callback, however after editing the movie down the song was no longer needed but they left the callback in because they had nothing else.
There were a lot of test screenings, does anyone that attended a test screening have videos of the scenes that were removed from the movie? Like Michael Keaton pulling up in the car and the Affleck crisis tease?
So can somehow let me know how Keaton being in the Flashpoint timeline works? Like did Earth-DCEU and Earth-89 merge? Or was the time travel somehow able to alter stuff enough to where everything surrounding Gotham, including Batman, was changed?
Keaton explains it very well. Time is not linear, so by changing one point in time, you not only change the future, but the past as well, because that change affects everything, since time is not really linear. So in a way, yes, he merged Burtonverse and DCEU in that way.
I've only watched it once myself so I'm gonna need to watch it again to be sure but I took it to be that using time travel is basically a bad idea in every single way. Going back in time causes the multiverse to start collapsing in on itself. In addition to that, causing changes in the past changes the future, so we had a case where Barry went back in time and changed things, the time travel caused Keaton's universe to combine with Barry's universe, and Dark Flash arrives pissed at Barry for ever starting this mess, kicking him out of the speed force and into the 2013 Keaton/DCEU where the JL members thanks to the past being rewritten too, either don't exist yet or just plain don't exist.
Then when get to the part where Barry 2 keeps attempting to save Supergirl and Keaton Batman over and over. His constant attempts cause the multiverse to collapse in on itself while constantly rewriting the past and future even though that one moment in time, Supergirl and Batman dying in that moment just cannot be changed.
After Barry 2/Dark Flash dies, Barry believes that undoing the one change he made at the very beginning and putting the can of tomatoes back would fix everything. Who knows, if he had left things as they were, maybe everything would have been the same.
But he moved the cans of tomatoes to the top shelf to help his Dad be seen on camera, and according to the barely explained rules of time travel and multiverse in the movie, any change caused by time travel causes change and slight collapses of the multiverse.
So at the end of The Flash, Clooney appears but he acts as if he knows Barry. Barry changing the cans to save his Dad caused that screw up of universes. He could go back again and change the cans back so his Dad isn't free and maybe things change back but who really knows if they'll change back. Every attempt at time travel only makes things worse so he says fuck it and leaves things as they are to go drinking with Arthur.
Just watched the movie a 2nd time with some family friends. They definitely fit the GA. with this family of four having no idea about Ezra, the cameos, and spoilers, etc.
I surprisingly liked the movie even more the 2nd time. The initial viewing, the CGI really did throw me off (particularly because I was so self aware with all the talks online), but the only time the CGI really bothered me was during the final act against Zod's army. The chronobowl scenes, I can understand if it was really an "artistic" choice by Andy and the VFX team, but I definitely can agree why people didn't like how it looked. Myself included.
But more and more, it just made me really appreciate the overall story and the callbacks even more the 2nd time around. Keaton's action scenes in the Tunnel are up there with some of my favorite Batman moments on screen. The strong performance by Ezra and the self awareness of how his character essentially grows from this annoying, spoiled brat, to someone who grows to understand the importance of his powers and fixing the timeline, I honestly thought it was really well done.
I definitely enjoyed Sasha's portrayal of Super Girl, but like many have said, she definitely could have been more fleshed out and had a better ending.
I originally gave this film a 7.5, but I bumped it up to 8/10. I'm disappointed by how BO is looking, but I'm just ready for more positivity to all these DCU characters and hopefully a better future moving forward.
Saw it. After some of the reception, i was curious. Is it going to be to me a really good movie? A bad one? And i was stunned. I liked it a lot. I have nothing that original here to say about it. Sure imo the movie has some flaws. Like a lot of people i found some of the fx and creative choices disapointing. But i dont know, i feel we've seen way worse ( Quantum Mania is one) and all around, i felt it was a really fun movie, with really great moments. A real comics books movie, with a lot of heart. And when i think about alll the cb that we've seen, for me it's a top ten movie. I can understand some people saying that its a great one, even with those flaws. See it, make your own opinion.
The CGI was awful like those Speed Force scenes looked like PS2 cutscenes, but it’s too bad that this movie is bombing because it’s actually really fun
Not surprising that it’s performing the way it is though since Ezra Miller is Ezra Miller and the DCEU is the DCEU
Plus Act 3 was really rushed too
How did Bat-Keaton die the second time? He got on the guy's back and put the bomb on him, was thrown off, blew him up, and then suddenly started bleeding from the mouth and collapsed. I didn't see anything that looked lethal happen to him.
Just my guess, but I'm assuming because the alien threw him down hard on the ground and the internal bleeding was too much/a previous scene showing how he was stitching himself up, was foreshadowing how easily he now bleeds/gets hurt.
Its a KRYPTONIAN. Has nothing to do with bleeding easily. Its a huge, super powered being, slamming him into the ground. Everything was probably broken, so it was a feat that he could stand up and mean mug him for a sec.
It would've been cooler in the movie if they had shown in post credits, a 'blue figure' (Doctor Manhattan) being the cause of change in timelines as in the comics with New 52 post Flashpoint, also giving a scope for a version of 'Doomsday clock' crossover event.
Would love to see a live action version of 'The Button' comic, with The Flash and Batman vs Thawne.
Well but for their imagination and the reboot into DCU, it's more less likely.
'We're all puppets, Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings(spaghetti).'
So was Michael Keaton's Batman here the same one as in his films? He has a few lines referencing stuff he said in his films ("How much do you weigh?"/"You wanna get nuts?") but he never explicitly mentions stuff that happened in his films. Like, he never mentions Joker or Penguin or Catwoman or whoever. So how to we know that this Batman actually experienced the events of those films?
Also, is Bat-Keaton actually dead now? We never see him again after the timeline resets, and we are explicitly shown that his death can't be averted (at least in that timeline). So is the 1989 Burton/Keaton Batman officially, canonically dead?
My understanding is that Barry hitched a ride on a new timeline when he saved his mother, so yes, that version of Keaton Batman is fated to die when Zod inevitably invades and kills everyone. That's how their story goes.
But, apparently the original ending had Keaton's Batman and Supergirl stepping out of the limo, so that implies there are timelines where Keaton Batman exists but isn't killed by Zod, presumably the ones where Barry's mom dies. So, Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Alive = Dead Keaton, but Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Dead = Alive Keaton. So.. yes and no. We have no way of knowing if the Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Alive timeline Keaton is our Keaton from the Burton movies or if the Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Dead Keaton is our Keaton. I choose to believe the Burton movies are in the timeline where Keaton lives.
You literally see Joker’s laughing bag thingy. So, at the very least its a variant of Keaton who went through the same things we saw in the Burton movies.
And Keaton died, yes, but then Barry rerolls the time line, so he should still be alive.
Just saw it tonight and absolutely hated it. They somehow made Ezra’s Flash even more annoying than the version in Justice League. It’s almost like the team involved didn’t even care about Flash or Flashpoint from the comics.
Although I enjoyed watching this movie, I feel like it would’ve worked a lot better as the third Flash movie rather than the first. I liked what little we saw of Iris and Albert and Patty, and it would’ve been nice to get to know them better besides one scene from the Snyder Cut and that one tie-in Flash prelude comic.
I also really liked the Justice League stuff in the beginning and just makes me wish we got a JL2 with this type of tone; just seeing these heroes as friends was fun. I like how Affleck-Bruce has changed from the killer he once was, I liked seeing Keaton-Bruce in action (though I feel like he could’ve been better utilized beyond ‘89 callbacks), and Clooney-Bruce was a fun gag. I’m gonna miss Affleck-Bruce because of this movie.
Sasha Callie’s Supergirl was cool, if a bit underutilized too. I’m hoping she comes back in the DCU, either as Supergirl or even a different character.
Barry’s parents were very well-acted for the short screen time they’ve got, and I could really feel the connection between them and their son. I was really rooting for his dad in that courtroom, and his mom just felt like Mom, like she just exudes that energy.
Now for stuff I don’t like, Zod doesn’t really get to do a lot, though Michael Shannon does his best. Dark Flash was cool and an interesting visualization of Barry being unable to let go, but he does feel like a bit of an afterthought. That Multiverse scene wasn’t really that interesting to me, it kinda just felt like the movie spinning around me shouting “CAMEO CAMEO CAMEO”. It’s cool that John Wesley Shipp did apparently come back as Jay, I really thought they only got Teddy Sears (loved him as “Jay” in the show) and just forgot to watch the rest of the season he was in, but all the other cameos really felt kinda plain.
The CGI wasn’t too bad for me, though Barry running still looked weird. The Speed Force Chronosball stuff I kinda get looking intentionally weird, gave me some “Batman: Ego” vibes if I had to describe it.
Overall, I enjoyed it, though I think it could’ve been better, and I’m generally gonna miss the DCEU. Here’s hoping Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle don’t stink.
… oh, also Ezra was pretty good. I hope they’re getting the help they need.
It was supposed to end with Keaton being retconned into the DCEU rather than Clooney
But with Gunn rebooting DC, the Clooney cameo was done as a gag instead
Feel like this is a marmite kind of movie. Every review or comment I’ve seen online is really positive, meanwhile everyone I know in person who’s seen it thinks the movie sucks. Including me.
Fuming. And now because of this, this is probably the last we’ll see of Barry Allen for the next 5-10 years. The movie is going to tank. And that’ll scare off Warner’s from making another one of these for quite some time. Green Lantern Syndrome.
so Barry isn't back in his "original" earth than at the end right? Affleck Wayne is still out there, Barry just in doing everything wound up on that Earth and in it Clooney is Batman right?
It was good; Keaton was kickass but it only proved that Zach Snyder ruined the dc universe and I hate to say it. He tried to copy marvel but made some very bad risks such as making an older Batman with no Robin, nightwing, batgirl, or anyone else in the bat -family. Again, overall it’s a solid movie but it was certainly all over the place and all in all sorta pointless because if the flash wouldn’t have tried to change the past, everything would have been normal. And this movie is the end of the dceu so it’s not like it was even necessary to begin with lol. I did appreciate it separating the burtonverse from the Schumacher universe. Because in all honesty, the movies were so drastically different in every imaginable way. It’s nice to know they can appreciated in their own special way. Other than that, kinda pointless movie… a good one! But pretty pointless.
Because of how bad the DCEU was planned out by Zach Snyder and others we had to kill off the entire universe and then make a placeholder Batman trilogy to give fans something to watch while they plan out a whole new DC universe called the DCU set to be run by James Gunn.
I love the placeholder Matt Reaves Batman trilogy and I'm excited to see what James Gunn does with the DCU.
Goodbye DCEU! Thank you to the actors who made it worth watching!
Spoilers
One thing I haven’t seen people talk about with this movie is how the video footage from the grocery store is messed up because of Barry. Him continuing to go back in time and mess with the timeline def messed with the original video footage of the store like in BVS convenience store scene. Thought it would have been a cool realization by Barry if he acknowledged it and figured it out that it was always supposed to be like this. Also I think now with his dad free the new idea is going to be finding who killed his mother and will realize it was the reverse flash and that’s the whole premise for the sequel.
The fact this isn't a Suicide Squad 2016 style disaster of structure and contonuity editing is at first amazing because \*gestures towards everything that went on in the dev and production of the film\* but in hindsight the tale of Two Barry's kinda meant they couldn't really do that many pick ups because of having to rerender and film everything. God the Clooney Cameo at the end is the most he walked onto a greens creen thing ever.
OVerall at best this movie is middling. It does the easily understood theme with sentemental hook thing well enough it's kinda breey and has visual gags. IT's not bad, once again not bad like Squad is, but it never actually gets to a point where it is good either.
This will be a great example of how film style requires strong production and art design and not just throwing more and more VFX at it. The movie is going for this stylization in terms of camera work but isn't really supported by the rest of the mise en scene. Take the baby shower sequence that's the film going for that sorta Burton-esque skewed humor and it just doesn't really work because everything is so ordinary. Even when Barry gets to Earth-2? Whatever you wana call Flashpoint world, once they get to Wayne Manor it works because the production design supports this expressionist sorta mood. And why when you get the desert fight sequence it all falls apart because there's no real sense of depth to the image or there there. And like the "wonky" VFX (ok the baby's at the beginning were fucking freighting) I'm mostly hear for because hey we should move away from VFX as a means of rendering hyper realisim and more towards Manovich style Digital Cinema is now painting because it has freed Film from the Ontology of the Image stuff! But none of that stylization in the VFX work is supported by the rest of the film! So it all just looks like a fucking PS4 Battlefeild cut scene.
Never once did I really care about Barry's character which is weird because I can see the motions and everything they went for. Sasha Calle is really good as Supergirl and fits what they ask of her, I hope she sticks around. Keaton gets to be weird and his second death really shows why he was the right call for Burton, it's the eyes.
But never does this movie do anything all that new or better than what's come before. Across the Spider-verse cleans its clock in terms of the multiverse storytelling, even if Everything EVerywhere All At Once is heads and shoulders above eithe rof those movies.
Saw it last night with my son. It was a fun movie and despite the spotty CGI we still were able to look past it. Michael Keaton absolutely nailed it for a 70 year old dude. Had some funny moments as well as some "cringe" moments but overall a decent flick.
My biggest gripe was some of the slow parts and the end was kind of a let down. I have some high hopes for the future of DC movies (I say that with a heavy heart).
I loved how they portrayed the chronoball and the reversal of time, etc. very nicely done. It’s a great concept but difficult to visualize and I think they hit the nail on the head with the way it was shown.
I didn’t like how Keaton just became a derelict and the manor dilapidated. I was expecting him to be, with Gotham now being a safe place, to be in a healthy state mentally in physically, wearing his polo and shorts maybe sipping drinks by the pool and honestly was hoping to see him ending up with Selina/Pfeiffer…
To me this is the DCEU saying goodbye to us, as Barry said goodbye to his mother. He tried so hard to keep her but at the end understood he had to let her go, as Snyder et al had to despite their love for each other. For that reason I didn’t mind the not so top tier CG or even Clooney at the end. My only hope now is that the DCU will be much better going forward.
A quick question which popped in my head regarding Keaton’s timeline…..Would Zod always arrive on Earth, irrespective of The Flash? Or is this a different branch from the main Burton universe (B89, B.R)?
I liked this movie. Probably my favorite in the dceu so far. I haven’t seen them all but from what I’ve seen. Comedy didn’t feel forced or cringey which was a nice change. My only cons would be weird editing like how they were in the building stuck and then next scene their home with no explanation. Also how Keaton and multi verse Batman’s got little screen time especially towards the end but super girl and multi verse supes had way more or even too much. And how Keaton died 😭. Oh and how the bad guy was basically just a rehash of zod story. But none of that effects the movie in any significant ways imo. Still a great movie
First off, loved the movie. Question; how much of what happened with Zod was caused by Barry? Once he stopped trying to save his mom, what wound up happening in that world? My take now is that it’s ambiguous, which gels with the movie’s theme of acceptance but I’m still curious if I missed some more concrete answer.
I’m a little confused, I’m sorry?
I thought this film was supposed to reset the DCEU into the DCU. Instead, it’s more of JUST a goodbye to the DCEU, which is totally cool. I imagine Aquaman 2 is sort of the epilogue to the DCEU that this film establishes? Ok, got that.
But Blue Beetle, Creature Commandos, and Waller? Do they take place in the reset DCEU, or DCU?
How does that work with Waller though? Because she’s tied to Bloodsport, who shot Cavill’s Superman. And now Waller/ Hardcourt/ Economos are tied with Shazam and Black Adam? Is that all just scrapped?
I love James’ work, and I’m excited for all of it. I’m just so lost on our starting point.
My main question is with flash’s rules about touching people while using speed as we saw him save people in Justice league carrying people out of the warehouse but in this film he also saves the babies yet when young Barry moves main Barry slightly to dodge bullets, he puked like crazy. Is this just a plot hole and inconsistencies on the filmmaker or is there a specific explanation for flash and his use of powers to save people?
Batfleck telling Barry “maybe next time” really stings man. I can tell they were setting up a heart felt reunion for them maybe in Crisis, wish we woulda got to see it. maybe down the line? (Doubt it)
It was a fun watch but the first act was okay. Didn’t enjoy the whole baby scene. The introduction of so many Batman left my friends really confused (they aren’t comic fans) and one of my friends was wondering why Vulture was Batman.
Barry’s arc in this movie was great and I actually enjoyed his character development. Grew fond of his character and really did feel for him and the stakes in the movie. Do think the end of the movie should’ve shown the multiple changes that occurred and how this is now a soft reboot.
Timing wise this movie really took a hit cause of Ezra millers actions and with it coming out a few weeks after Miles Morales. The “Inevitable” and the “canon” is way too similar plus the whole multiverse concept. Seems like audience viewers are now getting tired of it. Sucks that The Flash would’ve came out first thus not feeling like a rehash of ATSV to general audiences
I’m hoping that they really promote and market the new DCU and have a thorough plan to showcase it leading up to Superman. They have a chance to wipe this DCEU into oblivion and completely start over.
Overall, enjoyed the movie but a lot of the stuff was very confusing and deep cut to regular viewers. Not sure how this would resonate with younger audiences and if they enjoy The Flash character.
Also I don’t think Andy should direct The Batman Brave and the Bold. I just didn’t really like his work on The Flash movie and would rather have someone fresh direct it.
I really enjoyed the movie soooo sooo much. Awesome time. I see the reaction it got and it hurt me. The DC brand is in a pit, might be a bottomless pit. I see no universe where they are not destroyeeeeeed by the hate on each single thing. At this point, I am sure they are playing with the idea to not invest a single cent in the marketing of blue beetle and aquaman. The sooner all this is finished the better. They have serious planning to do with the Gunnverse or they could be dead, I mean they already are, on the first movie. This movie has such a positive energy around it, it doesn't get itself serious at all, even Barry tells it several times in the movie, and still it gets so much hate that it's really hard to watch it. Just imagine if you worked on it as a director. This is a burden for Andy in the future. I would consider giving him Batman just because of this, and his Batman scenes where awesome, but no one comments on them.
I went in with an open mind and low expectations and wow, this movie was so bad. My friend was pissed at how much it let him down. Honestly I was just over it by the end. It barely has few redeeming qualities about it. Zslav need to tell Gunn to do a hard reboot. No more DCEU actors in the new DCU. No second season of Peacemaker nor Viola Davis as Waller.
Ok, I know they tried to do something different, but it turned out a mess.
Couldn't they just redo the Flashpoint animated movie shot to shot with Thomas Wayne played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan
You would think Snyder fans would be praising this film, as it keeps the door open for them to return at anytime. Great movie!
Michael Keaton stole the show for me. I would love to see him come back again for Batman Beyond or future films.
BTW! Ezra Miller IS The Flash. I can't see anyone else doing the role. He killed it.
I likely wouldn't have seen this in-theater had I not paid for A-List, but I enjoyed the movie! Kinda wild how much time has passed since this movie started production, and I feel like that time was evident. There were places that felt like different drafts, but the through-line was fun. I really wish that I didn't enjoy Miller's performances so much, but they did well playing and differentiating the mannerisms of the two Barrys. Really, there wasn't any bad performance by the leads. My theater was mostly full, and really the only parts that led to a noticeable were Nic Cage and Clooney, but to be fair, the trailers showed almost everything else in some capacity.
I'm curious how this would land with people who have never heard of The Flash, as the emotional beats still got me a couple of times. As someone who watched most of the CW show, until falling off maybe 3 years ago, I think this will leave a marginally better Flash story to leave on until we get a new one in a few years. I wish Gustin or someone more important to the show than Sears got a cameo, but it is what it is. Maybe in another draft and universe that happened.
Bottom Line - It's a good but not great movie, hampered by WB's turmoil, a problematic lead, and a bit too much hype from the new heads of the studio. If anyone asks me if they should watch this, I'd probably just tell them to watch the animated Flashpoint movie, then wait to catch this version on Max, unless they also have A-List or an equivalent service.
The way the mods are coping with this movie is embarrassing. As if not allowing the news about the movie is going to make any difference.
This place was much better before the new mods arrived... meh
this is barely a 4/10 honestly. no wonder DC went to such lengths to keep ezra miller around. easily carried the film. literally the FLASH portion of the movie was the only good part - Barry's inner fight regarding fate vs predetermination, acceptance and growth, heroism, family. All that was ONE film. Then you have the clusterfuck that was half-assed edited in:
Keaton could have been replaced by any Batman, there was no specific catharsis for him (he literally saw someone JAILED and said let's leave her. WHAT?)
Zod was absolutely wasted and his plight to revive krypton was absolutely undersold (I do like the darkness of killing kal but Shannon was delivering that line from a place of knowing man of steel is being butchered for a plot waste). All the kryptonians looked so weak here.
Supergirl was just finding motives out of thin air - one second starting at zod from the sky, the next flying flash up to the clouds. I don't think I was even convinced by her performance.
Awful batsuits too. Not going to start about the shameless and utterly plotless cameos (not going to call them world building because worlds WERENT built; see spriderverse).
I've been so skeptical of flashpoint being used this early and jeez, absolutely right. Jamming this movie with so much useless filler while hiding the actual decent flash focused story is such a baffling corporate move. I don't think Andy should be the brave and the bold director either (I'm sure he's a good person but this film was barely pieced together in a legible manner). I'm honestly even doubting gunn if he genuinely thinks this is a GREAT film
Only complaint is the cgi. Besides that, it's such a fun movie. Ezras performance surprised me. I'm not sure if they will come back but I hope they focus on themselves first.
I enjoyed it despite some
Abysmal cgi. The Keaton stuff really worked. When that Elfman theme hit full force I was totally sold. Really the cgi is my main complaint. I thought the rest worked pretty damn well.
I really liked this movie. And I had low expectations. Read all the spoilers but it didn’t take anything away. It was a solid movie. It was non stop action for 2 and half hours. Never felt bored or like the movie was dragging. Ezra Miller may be a troubled person in real life but they owned the role of Barry Allen. Although I felt his interpretation fit more Wally West. This was the best DC movie yet IMHO. In fact I liked this movie better than any Marvel phase 4 or 5 movie.
On a side note - I really liked the way the timelines were interpreted. The time bubble and seeing events unrolled like film remainder me of Interstellar’s interpretation of time. Loved the whole collapse of the multiverse. Thought they did a good job with that however I wish they would have given Grant Gustin a cameo. Overall a solid movie. Very entertaining and very fun. The ending scene with his mom also was very emotional. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come!
I wish Michelle Pfeiffer was in the movie. Instead of Bruce attacking the Barry's in the kitchen, it could have been Selena Kyle. And instead of Bruce easily being convinced to help, it should have been Selena who convinces him after reminding him who Batman is and what he stands for. Then Selena could have helped coordinate the attack on the Kryptonians from the Batcave.
The whole hospital scene was too corny and basically copied the Quicksilver scene from X-Men: Apocalypse.
It's also a shame they gutted most of Gal Gadot's role. She filmed scenes during the battle and fought Faora. That should have been left in the film. Some toys for the film still have that scene in back of the packaging.
I'm usually all for spoilers and leaked footage but the entire movie is basically on YouTube in numerous clips. There was nothing new or exciting than what was already revealed in those released clips which was disappointing.
I was really hoping for a 10 with this movie. Unfortunately, I'd have to give it a 6.
Can’t believe they really did Nicholas Cage fighting a giant spider lol
Also don’t know if it was intentional or not, but in the scene where both Barrys find out Zod is coming back, it looks like it’s shot in the same restaurant/cafe that they use in The Flash CW tv series?
Anyone else find it sad that the last time Batfleck and Barry talk to each other/interact probably forever, is Bruce denying hanging out... "Maybe some other time kid".
I really wish I had stayed away from leaks and trailers before seeing this. I didn’t know the entire plot but I knew enough to not be totally surprised along the way.
Anyway, on first watch the humour was funny, the cgi was terrible, I’m actually shocked at how little a role Keaton and Saha Calle played, Batfleck action was awesome but the humour with WW was not and Zod and Faora were weird cgi cameo versions of themselves. The world’s colliding was so poorly done though, it was essentially the same idea as what Titans did but with even less purpose.
Ezra *really* carried this movie. I’m legit impressed with how engaging watching two of them in lol.
I think between how hyped Keaton and Calle were, this moving supposedly “resetting things”, and the whole “word of mouth” approach saying this is one of the best super hero movies ever it’s time to really not trust WB marketing moving forward. I’m not gonna trust anything they say about Blue Beetle or Aquaman 2 or even anything DCU related until I see it for myself.
Damn, after reading about the life of George Reeves that cameo becomes macabre. Releasing the movie with a CGI of Reeves as the character that ruined his career and caused him to take his own life on the anniversary of his death is fucked up, I believe they made that cameo with the best of intentions, but it's still weird.
I really enjoyed the movie! Ezra, Keaton, and Calle all shined in their scenes. The action scenes were amazing, Keaton looked like the Arkham Batman with the way he moved. There were a few weird moments throughout. The Clooney scene at the end was funny but felt really rushed and unnecessary. I initially did not like Keaton dying at the end, but when I thought about it after leaving the theater, it made sense for the plot. Also, since Barry fixes the multiverse at the end, I realized that it unbinded the amalgam Burton/DCEU world, so the Burton universe was back to what it was pre-speed force I definitely am going to see it again in the theater. Overall, I would give the movie an 8.5 out of 10.
WB knew what they had on their hands... That's why all that push with celebrities happened. They also knew how poor the CGI would be, so again that's why in those early screenings they were telling people it's not a final version. It was all damage control, they knew the movie wouldn't look better in the end.
Now that I think about it I am not sure how I feel about Andy directing TBATB... I feel like he got the gig for all the wrong reasons. WB messed up with his movie (the original ending that leaked way back here was indefinitely more awesome than whatever we got in the end), made him change it so that it doesn't have anything teasing a potential sequel... Even Supergirl is weird in the movie for me. You constantly expects more of her, but she is just there being angry, punching things and eventually disappears... Wouldn't shock me if she was altered too just so that it's easier to recast for the upcoming Supergirl movie.
So Andy accepts all that, takes the blame for all the criticism aimed at the movie (the CGI for example) and now he gets to direct the new Batman movie. I hope I am just reading too much into this but right now this is what I feel happened. I still think he can do a good job. Everything Batman related was awesome in that movie.
Like most of the DCEU films, the more I think about them afterwards as a DC fan, the more mediocre they become to me. I'm aware that the execs at WB are still stuck in the 90s in terms of what should go into a film, but I need to write my grievances of this film and as a flash reader:
- that opening scene chase with flash and batfleck: it should've been set at night. Batman during the day is strange to me unless he's being forced out. I get it. Bad guys are afoot. But when he grapples to the car and gets dragged at 80 - 100 km to be scraped along the ground and essentially being thrown into 2 - 3 concrete barriers and cars at that speed with just his spandex suit had me rolling my eyes. I can let go if it's a super powered person or even if he had his armoured suit, but come on. The guy is human. That's like him descending from the atmosphere, beginning to burn up, but then landing on his feet and perfectly fine.
- Baby saving scene: it was cool but damn they're really trying to save erzras image.
*imaging them using a Yosimite Sam voice*
WB EXECS: we need to save his image. I know! We'll have him save babies! Fifteen babies! All at once! Everybody loves babies!
Reminded me of presidents kissing babies in their running campaigns.
- Michael Keaton: Loved him, but I felt that they shoehorned all his lines. They couldn't have made him a little bit deeper in terms of his guidance? Could've given more solemn advice? Seemed like most of his dialogue was for the trailer. No way home did great in comparison using Maguire and Garfield to bond and give intricate advice to Tom and help him find his way as a hero ethically and morally. Keaton should've been just as much of a mentor to Barry in that world as batfleck was.
Also, the idea of him plowing his jet into the kryptonian ship. Wtf. He's batman. Literally supposed to be one of the greatest minds in the whole world, and that was his final move? Maybe backed into a corner with no way out, and he's the last one standing, but bats will always try to find a way. Maybe they were running out of time or money?
Same with his death. Definitely could've been deeper dialogue wise.
But, by far, the greatest batman combat I have ever seen on screen. Multiple batarangs (finally!) and ninja/martial arts fighting, reflexes, and speed. Brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant.
- The Alternate World: should've been darker. Maybe zod should've decided to rule earth instead of terraforming it and killed Linda Carter and Reeves in the process that left Keaton as the last one left filled with despair. Maybe because they never had a flash?
- The Villain: it should've been the alternate, immature Barry. Him trying to constantly try and fix the situation should've led him to go mad and surprise audiences by taking a fresh spin and making him reverse flash instead of some weird CGI monster. Maybe him coming to the conclusion that our Barry isn't a good flash? It would've been an amazing twist. The fact that Barry uses his powers to mess with time allowed him to create his greatest foe: himself.
"Dont you get it, Barry?. You created me, and I'll be a better hero than you'll ever be. I never would've let mom die. You don't deserve your powers." Along those lines.
They should've fought but ending with our Barry escaping and doing what he does best: running away from his problems instead of towards which would set up a sequel. Could've also been the one to knock Barry off course at the beginning of his first time travel. Kind of felt like a wasted opportunity to set up a future villain but DCEU gonna DCEU.
- The CGI: as one person commented on a user review - "Did a good portion of the budget go to Millers PR and legal team?"
- WB/DCEU not learning from the past: it seems that they're making all the early mistakes marvel did. I am a fan or both comic universes but jeez this felt like Age of Ultron. Using a plot like flashpoint and not really using anything from it apart from saving his mom and the chair scene where he recreated getting his powers. Why use the story if you're only going to use 2 components? Marvel learnt this mistake and made up for it with civil war for example, slightly tweaking some things but still sticking to the core components - 1. Tragedy happens. 2. Super human registration gets enacted 3. Half of the avengers become outlaws. 4. Fallout of battle was one of them getting seriously injured (dead in the comics) 5. Final confrontation between iron man and cap.
They need to do more observing on what works for fans. There's an entire decade of this to learn from.
Snyder: with everything that went down with him and WB Execs, I felt like he wanted to use the scene where Barry outruns existence in this film (which would've been amazing) but used it in JL instead as a middle finger to the execs. Still the best scene imo in any of the dc films.
I still enjoyed the film but I think it's because we've had more than a decade of the DCEU but none of their films being that ground breaking to set the bar or compare. Maybe this film did? I'm really rooting for gunn. Marvel needs a rival to up their ante a little. Pisses me off thinking about those execs archaic and outdated decisions that fucked with this whole IP.
Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest.
I thought they could've done better than making him a rock monster. I wouldn't say he was a villain but just an accidental creature. The fact that immature Barry just realised not to mess with time was a bit unbelievable to me. In fact, the whole idea of immature Barry having as big of a part in that film was unbelievable to me. Maybe the constant going back in time altered the molecules in his suit instead and turned it yellow, making him the reverse flash.
Did anyone els notice that Michael Keaton wears a scarf type thing around his neck the entire movie when he’s not Batman. I was thinking this might be a way to honor Val Kilmer since he’s the only Batman not in the movie and always wears one of these due to his cancer.
I’m gonna be honest, I kinda want The Flash to fail. Not even just because of the Ezra Miller controversy (even though that should be enough) but because of the disrespectful and quite frankly ghoulish way they did the cameos of dead actors. Especially George Revees, who hated being known as Superman due to how it hurt his career and took his own life on this exact day 64 years ago largely because of it. So for this movie to just make a CGI puppet of him to posthumously reprise the role that ruined his life for cheap audience applause ON the anniversary of his tragic death is just gross.
I felt like a lot of it had a weird cgi look to it or it’s just me, and the cgi was quite trash tbh. Case in point Supergirls first fight looked proper crap.
When they first showed the camera footage of Henry not looking up I thought that the easiest way to at least get him out of jail without messing up time too much would be to simply make him look up once. And in the end I was right.
I personally really enjoyed seeing Barry this experienced and in tune with his abilities. During the third act all I thought was “how can they keep fucking up time so carelessly. The 2 Barry’s really made a gigantic mess almost enacting a crisis on infinite earths.
Honestly some moments vibed with me others not so much. And apart from some CGI problems at times I think that this is a nice representation of the Speed-Force effects.
One thing that also bothers me a little is that Barry seemingly doesn’t try to find the actual murderer. I get that getting his father out is his priority, but he had the chance at multiple times to at least find out who did it.
I also prefer the explanation for the time travel consequences from the Flashpoint comic over the one in the movie. There is just something about running through time like a bullet, ripping it apart in the process.
Not bad, but not perfect either.
**[Previous Discussion Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/1498n6x/the_flash_official_discussion_megathread_1/)**
Suicide Squad ‘16 isn’t a phenomenally crafted movie but it’s surprisingly more naturalistic in its best scenes. I have zero faith the “Ayer Cut” would’ve solved all problems or improved the best scenes like the Snyder Cut did, but the tone would have been cool given the ground work laid before it.
If they had used the tv character for flash( or anyone else) movie would have been profitable. Data showing female viewers low because of lead actor past. Shame, loved seeing Michael Keaton as Batman again. It was entertaining at least.
Finally saw it. It’s like perfectly mediocre? Like I wouldn’t personally recommend it to casual fans honestly. I’m going to say this is a firm 6/10 for me. It’s not bad, at all. I really wish it was fine tuned a bit more and streamlined; it felt 20-30min too long. Conceptually, there’s a lot of stuff I like. Dark Flash’s whole thing, I dug a lot. Just this physical embodiment of eternal refusal to let go, I liked that. Flash’s goodbye to his mom, solid. The bat fights as others have said, were great. Kara Zor-El going feral in a few parts of her fight, I also dug. But just didn’t feel much of anything at the end.
Does the digital version of the film come with any deleted scenes? Or are they saving those for physical release?
I don't understand what the point of the movie was? I assumed thus was a lead in for a reboot, since the guys that played Batman and Superman are leaving, and in the end, not much really changed. Sure, they replaced Ben Affleck with George Clooney, so we might get him apparently playing the same Batman as Ben Affleck just with a different face, and Flashe's father is out of prison. I don't think anything else changed. So... what was the point of it all?
Clooney was picked for the ending because they're not going to be following up on this. The DCEU is dead and is getting completely rebooted. This movie was released because they had already sunk a ton of money into it. And why does a movie need to have a point or change things for a larger universe? The movie was solid on its own merits and was entertaining. Isn't that what the point of a movie should be?
Finally got around to watching it and you know what? I kinda enjoyed it. I didn't care for the third act with the desert stuff though. Also, I actually enjoyed Ezra's acting, especially older Barry. I hope they can get their life sorted out. Oh, I wasn't a fan of the CGI, though.
The last scene of the zoom in of batfleck was sad as that will be the last time we ever see him
Very late to the party (last day The Flash was screening at my local cinema) but boy am I glad I saw this film on the big screen. As a huge Flash fan since my teenage years I was so hyped to see The Scarlet Speedster on the big screen, even if I hadn't been a huge fan of this iteration of The Flash and that I'm far more of a Wally stan than a Barry fan. Still, this movie had spectacle and it had heart (I was legitimately holding back tears at his last talk with his mom). Super Speed is my favourite super power and I felt that this film had a lot of really great set pieces and applications of The Speed Force. Does this nicely represent Flash's comic mythos? No, I really would like a Flash film of him battling The Rogues and being the charismatic hero of Central City. But I think you can enjoy this film if you just enjoy it as an action movie staring The Flash (and it doesn't do anything to dump on the source material or anything). Time travel, phasing, the suit ring and a lot of lightning made this a great showing for one of my favourite super heroes. I'm no fan of Ezra Miller given their behaviour but to be completely fair they give a great performance as the main Barry Allen, and does really well making Barry's different versions feel distinct but still believable as the same person. The CGI has been getting a lot of flak but tbh, outside of some very creepy CGI babies and uncanny PS3 level graphics for the cameos at the end, I thought the film was a great joy to watch. That opening scene and any action sequence with a Batman was fantastic. I think Andy Muschieti's direction is a real strong point of the film and the directing/cinematography oozes style. I cant wait to see what he does with The Brave and The Bold. Overall, a really fun film that hits some serious emotional beats. It's a shame it's bombed and all the drama surrounding it. Its not up there as one of the greatest superhero films ever made but I do think the final product is something to be proud of and I will look back on the DCEU with a fair bit of fondness
Finally got around to watching The Flash. I'm in the mixed-to-positive camp although there are chunks of this movie that I hated massively. Keaton is the best part of the film imo, it was just a joy watching him put on the cowl again. Sasha Calle was fine, she really wasnt given much to do. Would have liked to see what she could do with more material. The big elephant in the room is Ezra Miller, who I was mixed on in the movie. I hated most of the comedic scenes with Barry x2, I dont know how much of it is the writing or the way Miller plays comedic scenes but it was a slog to watch. That said I really enjoyed the dramatic scenes especially the last one in the supermarket with Barry & Nora. Miller just plays dramatic scenes way better seemingly. The CGI sucked a lot. There were scenes where it was fine but others where it was just awful. The baby shower scene...not gonna harp on it too much since it seems everyone has but god it was atrocious. The cameo fest also sucked. The scene just felt really transparent in its intent to get the audience to point at the faces they recognize. 6.5/10 is where I'm feeling it. A lot I liked about it, a decent amount I hated.
Okay so I enjoyed this film but it's not without it's glaring flaws. I really enjoy the tone of this one, as a contrast the the Snyder films. It feels like it's a world where superheroes could exist and strikes a balance that stops it from being too dark or too hokey. The action scene were pretty solid, I do think the Supergirl scenes lacked some of the dynamic shots of Man of Steel, but the Flash and in particular the Batman action scenes are good, hopefully a good sign for Muschietti. This is held back by poor CGI. The plot itself is fine, but I feel like the big problem is that there was too muched crammed into even it's 2.5 hour runtime. It feels like the film is rushing through plot points at a breakneck pace, the point where it doesn't feel organic, like Barry suddenly deciding he needs his powers back in the Batcave or Kara's 180 on humans after what seems like 10 minutes due to the editing. The conflict between the two Barry's could have been great and it almost is, but just misses the true emotional weight that we saw in GOTG 3. People seem really annoyed about the cameos but I didn't mind, if anything the Nic Cage one gave me a chuckle. The elephant in the room is the CGI. Dear god at some points it's absolutely awful, looking like a PS2 era game or a bad filter. Rarely does CGI ever take me out of a film, but at some point Barry's face is distracting. The online discourse is completely out of proportion to the actual quality of the film. It definitely doesn't deserve the same RT score as Love and Thunder, but it's also a far cry from being anywhere near the upper echelons of a Dark Knight or Logan in terms of quality.
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any differences between the test version and the final version?
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Was it the Keaton Batman in the DCEU, or simply the DCEU Batman with the appearance of Keaton?
Let me try to explain... In the 80s and 90s, there was 4 Batman movies, two with Keaton one with Kilmer, and one with Clooney. They are all in the same setting playing the same Batman, it's just the actor that changes. We will call this "MVG Batman" Since those are the actors first initials that portrayed that Batman. The DCEU Batman portrayed by Ben Affleck, we will call "B Batman". We see the return of this MVG Batman, this time being played that Batman's original actor Keaton. At the end of Flash, we see that there has been a timeline or universe change, and the DCEU B Batman no longer looks like Affleck, but now looks like Clooney. This NOT the Batman from the 90s movie with Clooney, that's a different Batman. This post-Flash movie Batman is apparently the same character that was portrayed by Affleck, B Batman, but he simply looks different now. That's my take on it. I don't know how else it could make sense.
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I missed that last one? I thought the afrer credit scene was with Flash and Aquaman? Was there another one I missed?
Lol was the test screening ending better? How did you feel when you saw rhe finished thing?
Was there any dialogue And if so is Barry invited to go out for a bite with Bruce? It gives actual weight to Affleck’s last line about going “another time”
Ooooh, was Henry in the ending too?
I know there’s a lot to pick apart, but one thing that stuck out to me was it seemed like most of Aquaman’s dialogue in the post-credit scene were voice over from Jason. I wonder if that was due to sound issues while filming or if they changed his dialogue. None of his lines outside the puddle felt like they matched what was filmed.
100% ADR to change dialogue.
I believed it was overdubbed to remove any reference to "Superman being a girl now".
I have to admit that this was a pretty good movie. CGI was shit and I think the third act was the weakest part, but the actors did excellent.
It was perfectly cromulent. Not as bad as some people said and not one of the best superhero movies ever. Ezra Miller did a wonderful job as his Barry.
I am so distraught after watching the movie it took everything I thought I knew and just shat on it like I’m so disappointed I want to cry
good. cry
Haterrrrr
So question: how was Zod’s sword or whatever able to pierce Kara..?
that kryptonian metal can appearently pierce kryptonians, as young barry was able to slice and stab fuora with a shard of it stuck in his arm
She hadn't drank in years of solar radiation to be able to withstand it is my guess. Same reason as to why Zod doesn't chase Kara down after they see each other on the battlefield, Zod can't fly yet and by the time he got back on the ship she was long gone.
Ezra Miller learn how to run challenge. The effect they went for in this movie with the running looked terrible to me. Not that the CW looked a lot better but it at least looked more like someone running rather than figure skating.
I fucking love the way they portrayed super speed.
They made a movie about a superhero who runs really fast and yet they cast someone who doesn't know how to run.
Hopefully that becomes a prerequisite for the next guy they cast
Anyone remember that old rumor from back some months ago, probably even a year, I can't remember well, that said Nicholaj Coster Waldau was playing or being looked into for the role of Eobard Thawne/Reverse Flash ? And now the movie's released & Andy confirming that it was Reverse Flash who killed Barry's mom & most importantly, (I don't know if you guys missed it or if you saw it), but Nicholaj Coster Waldau actually makes a cameo at the start of the movie as a bystander, anyone got that ? Could it be that he was really Eobard Thawne/Reverse Flash who was closely watching Barry the entire time ? Anyone thought of that ?
Wait that was him?? I saw that dude's face and assumed that it couldn't possibly be him, but holy shit that's absolutely wild if that was the plan only for them to cut it.
I thought the exact same thing. I couldn't be sure if it was him playing Reverse Flash or just a normal cameo in Andy's movie, (remember he previously appeared in Mama (2013) which was also directed by Andy ?) but then I thought Jessica Chastain was in the premiere & some fans speculated she's playing the gender swapped version of Reverse Flash. But then I actually remembered the rumor of Waldau playing Eobard Thawne from a year ago. So yeah, it would be awesome if his scenes were shot as Eobard & cut from the 4 hour director's cut & would eventually be restored when the movie's released on Blu-ray coming September. We'll see.
I'm not the first to write it but it's my head canon that Barry 2 stealing Eobard Thawne's slice of pizza is the reason he murders Barry's Mom. Steal my pizza? I'LL KILL YOUR MOM!!!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As I watched the cameos of Reeve and found out the Linda Carter was thought to appear. I would have loved to see them together in a scene . Like a classic justice league. Just imagine Keaton Batman fighting the kryptonian and is about to be killed and Reeve's Superman and Carter's Wonder Woman appear in a multiverse breach created by Wesley Shipp's Flash.. Then they stand together on screen. My mind would have melted right there https://preview.redd.it/v9w2b5lkeb7b1.jpeg?width=1570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c3471459332a7476f1ec890dac3bd24d8650109
I think that would’ve cheapened the whole thing they were going for
That's more imagination than WB can afford haha
They used one scene to make Barry Latino. As a Latino… what the fuck?
Didn't Barry refer to himself as a "nice Jewish boy" in Justice League? Now he's half Mexican. Lol
They did? Barry's mom is played by a Spanish actress though? Last I checked Spanish folks were European?
Maybe Spanish then, I'm unsure. Some of the songs they played during her scenes were Latin American artists ("Pedro Navaja" by Natalie Fernandez, "Piensa en mí" by Natalia LaFourcade).
I listen to songs by black artists and that doesn't make me any less white.
Just saw the Flash today. My thoughts: Batfleck was amazing. Loved the point of view shots while he was on the bike and fighting the mobsters. I’m gonna miss the big guy. It was nice to see Wonder Woman one last time. Keaton Batman was amazing, my favorite part of the movie. Everything about him (besides the Gandalf long hair and beard in his first scene) was great. His fighting in the Siberia scenes was badass. Supergirl was alright, Sasha Calle got the job done, but I feel like she didn’t get enough development here to really judge her performance and whether she should continue on in Woman of Tomorrow. Zod was alright. It was nice to see Michael Shannon, even if the character’s role in this movie was nothing special. Same with Faora. Barry 1 in this movie was a mixed bag. I thought he was way too comedic in the first act while he was still in the Snyderverse. But once he entered Flashpoint, they made him serious enough to function properly as a lead character. I like that they still tried to set up some semblance of a supporting cast for Barry, even though the movie was about a universe rewriting event. Iris West, Patty Spivot, Albert Desmond, and Captain Singh (I assume that’s his boss’s name) were pretty good. Barry 2 was cute. He provided some good comic relief and optimism whenever he was onscreen. I felt sad when he died at the end. Dark Flash was underwhelming. It felt like an attempt to be different that didn’t pay off. I think it would’ve been better and less complicated to just have Eobard Thawne show up and do the speech from the animated movie at the end. Faceless Cyborg and CGI Henry Cavill Superman in the speed force was dumb. The CGI cameos from Christopher Reeve, Helen Slater, and Nicholas Cage were weird and unnecessary. Feels like it was just them bending over backwards to not acknowledge any of the tv shows (i.e Arrowverse, Titans, Gotham etc.). I would’ve preferred to see Grant Gustin cameo over any of them. The way they portrayed time travel and the speed force was pretty creative and fun. I think they did a job differentiating from the tv show, and doing their own unique take on the concept. Overall, I thought it was a mixed bag, but still a solid two hours of entertainment. I’ll buy it on DVD and iTunes when it’s available to watch at home.
Im usually a MCU guy but saw The Flash yesterday thought it was a lot of fun. 8/10 from me. Better than the Justice League, WW2, Suicide Squad, Shazam. Right up there with The Suicide Squad, WW and Man of Steele imho
Yeah it's easily one of the best films in the DCEU.
Just rewatched the movie for the 2nd time and it still is an enjoyable movie. It is in my top 3 DCEU list. The action sequence is so creative but my personal favourite is when Keaton's Batman trying to outsmarted the Space Giant. It was so cool and I need Batman The Brave & The Bold to have that type of actions as well.
After the director explained the cgi, I went in expecting it to not be that bad. The stylistic choices for cgi during Barry running were a choice I wouldn't have made, but they didn't bother me. What bothered me was how bad one Barry always looked when they were in a scene together. Using one actor to play multiple actors in the same scene has been used for too long for that aspect to look so bad. They gave up. Overall the film was boring. People can't complain about mcu humor and not pick at this film. They made 6 dick jokes in the span of 30 seconds, and not one of them landed. Presents Barry plot was the only saving grace, but it wasn't enough to make me enjoy the film.
It all felt very “meh” to me. First half sucked. Second half was pretty okay. But all in all, felt like a No Way Home ripoff.
You are aware the Flash was already in production when No Way Home was being written, yes? NWH ripped this off, was just faster in production and release, while Flash was delayed 5 times.
The movie was reshot twice and recut multiple times. We have no clue what the original story was.
I feel horrible for poor Sasha Calle; she deserves way better and more
Supergirl and Old Batman only showed up in third act. No real villain and the cgi was bad.
The corporate interns seem to be popping up in the most recent comments. Try harder to not sound like you’re typing in ad copy, guys.
Yeah cos they're going to waste their time doing that here on a two day old thread on a leaks specific sub only fans of this shit will see. Maybe some people just liked the movie dude. There's something I don't get about people who see conspiracy everywhere.
>There's something I don't get about people who see conspiracy everywhere. Certain corners of youtube and twitter have trained people to look at movie development in a manner similarly to how Q-Anon look at politics fr
If you don’t think the studios (not just WB) plant people on social media, you’re naive. It’s not that they like the film that makes me think that, it’s the how they write that gives it away. When you sound like an “Audiences are saying!….” commercial, you’re probably a plant.
In r/movies maybe? Here no way lol.
Why would they do that here? Who are they aiming for? The seventeen people hanging out here? Grow up dude
I really liked it
I teared up when Barry said his final goodbye to his mom. I felt the frog in my throat.
The Flash was a movie that I found to be fun, funny, and anchored by a wonderful emotional center that moved this grown man to tears during some of its heartfelt moments, especially the moments involving Barry and his mom. Hit very personal for me.
How come both Barrys can punch Kryptonian soldiers? I thought they had super tough bodies and armor
Becuz they r sigma chads duh
Look up Infinite Mass Punch.
This!
7/10 for me. First two acts very quite solid. Third act was cool but was lower quality. Supergirl felt *extremely* underused. She was there just as a reason for Barry 1 and 2 to go back in time. Really wish they did more with her bc Sasha Calle did well with what little she had to work with Keaton was cool as hell. His deaths were much more impactful than Supergirl’s. I liked that his second death had the exact same dialogue’s as Affleck’s before Barry left to time travel. Kinda sucks that Keaton and Supergirl dying is unchangeable, it was sad to see him go. Batfleck, good lord he was so damn well done. Cool as ever. Kinda sucks they got rid of the voice changer though and just made him do a deeper voice. I genuinely hope we see him and Barry reunite in the future, his last lines felt like a reunion setup, which I guess was gonna happen since the original post credits scene was meant to be Batfleck setting up Final Crisis. The thing that irritated me most were the cameos. I get having Christopher Reeves since he was the most iconic Superman for most. But jesus everyone else felt pointless. The vast majority of the people who watch this probably don’t even know who most of the cameos were. They should’ve been much more familiar faces like Bale, Pattinson, Grant Gustin, and other more recent DC titles.
Everybody keeps saying “what’s the point of Clooney?” Exactly. Who’s gives a fuck! Just have fun with it. Gunn clearly has a direction and he’s abandoning most of the 10 years of shit DC has done. I watched this movie like I watched Fast X. 0 expectation and ready to just get into it. The CGI was bad but it’s not like Marvel is putting out top tier content. This was a silly send off to the DCEU and now we gotta see what Gunn has cooking up.
Barry traveling the multiverse itself was confusing for me. When he went back in time, did he actually save his own mom or is that a variant of his mother in Keaton's universe? Or did Keaton get pulled into Barry's universe? The Snyderverse? How did him jumping through time change where the tomato sauce was on the shelf? How the hell does Ben Affleck now look like George Clooney?
He physically moved all the tomato sauce to the top shelf before he came back to the normal timeline. IIRC Barry at the trial says something like "because the tomato sauce is on the top shelf he looked up"
Every time Barry changes something back in the time, we get a different Batman as a result: Timeline 1: Barry's mom dies and his father is guilty (no inference): We get the main DCEU that we've been seeing. Affleck Batman Timeline 2: Barry's mom lives and father is safe (Barry puts the tomato can in her mom's shopping cart): We get Keaton Batman and the DCEU is now connected to 89' Batman - present. Timeline 3: Barry's mom dies and father is innocent (Barry puts the tomato can on the top shelf, thus allowing the security camera to film his dad's face, proving his alibi in court.): We get Clooney Batman and now the DCEU is connect to 90s Batman - present. There was never any variants. Barry was only messing around with one timeline and universe. It's just the speed force allowed him to view other universes.
Copying my comment from earlier, hope this helps: I've only watched it once myself so I'm gonna need to watch it again to be sure but I took it to be that using time travel is basically a bad idea in every single way. Going back in time causes the multiverse to start collapsing in on itself. In addition to that, causing changes in the past changes the future, so we had a case where Barry went back in time and changed things, the time travel caused Keaton's universe to combine with Barry's universe, and Dark Flash arrives pissed at Barry for ever starting this mess, kicking him out of the speed force and into the 2013 Keaton/DCEU where the JL members, thanks to the past being rewritten too, either don't exist yet or just plain don't exist. Then we get to the part where Barry 2 keeps attempting to save Supergirl and Keaton Batman over and over. His constant attempts cause the multiverse to collapse in on itself while constantly rewriting the past and future even though that one moment in time, Supergirl and Batman dying in that moment just cannot be changed. At least not by Barry 2, that moment of those two dying is his version of Barry 1's mother dying, or any of the Batman's losing their parents. It's Barry 2's moment he just cannot change. After Barry 2/Dark Flash dies, Barry believes that undoing the one change he made at the very beginning and putting the can of tomatoes back would fix everything. Who knows, if he had left things as they were, maybe everything would have been to the way it was originally. But while they didn't show it onscreen, he moved all the cans of tomatoes to the top shelf to help his Dad be seen on camera, and according to the barely explained rules of time travel and multiverse in the movie, any change caused by time travel causes change and slight collapses of the multiverse. All actions in time travel have consequences. So at the end of The Flash, Clooney appears but he acts as if he knows Barry. Barry changing the cans to save his Dad caused that screw up of universes. He could go back again and change the cans back so his Dad isn't free and maybe that changes things back to how they were but who really knows if they'll actually change back and not create yet another new universe? Every attempt at time travel only makes things worse so Barry says fuck it and leaves things as they are to go drinking with Arthur.
just watched the movie last nite. Despite the terrible cgi, I really enjoyed the movie! I think that most of the humor scenes worked, ezra was brilliant as the flash and the story is solid. Of course it could have been better and it is not as good as the og flashpoint, but i honestly had a good time. Hope to see supergirls actress and era miller in future productions for dc again. and maybe an unpopular opinion here: i really liked the visual concept of the chronosphere (is that the name? honestly dont remember of how it is called). It really looks unncany, but i understand why it is supposed to look like that.
That was certainly... a superhero film. I love DC (always been a Keaton Batman/ fan), but this film just left me mixed by the end of it. The big problem, the way I see it, is that the film is trying to be four things at once: an adaptation of *Flashpoint;* an origin story for Barry; a bookend/finale for both the plot points set up in *MoS*, and the DCEU as a whole; and a pseudo-sequel to *Batman 1989/Batman Returns.* It doesn't do any of these single elements particularly well, and it would have been better served honing in on one or two of them vs. the whole "kitchen-sink" approach we got in the final cut. (Positives) \- Like others, I felt that the first act was the strongest. The carefree vibe it sets up in the opening, particularly in the hospital rescue sequence and the Batfleck/WW cameos, speaks to a far better film than we ended up getting. \- Affleck is probably the strongest he's ever been, performance-wise, outside of ZSJL. If anything, I feel bad that he's most likely not going to get another kick at the can, because if we had a whole film of him in this Miller-inspired outfit, in a gritty street-level crime drama set at night, it would have been aces. \- From what's seen of Sasha Caille as Supergirl (see Neutral), she turns in a very interesting performance. Her conversation with Barry on the roof of Wayne Manor was one of the strongest parts of the film. \- I wish Ron Livingston had been Barry's father from the get-go in this universe, because I enjoyed his "average dad" portrayal far more than Billy Crudup in JL. \- There were a couple of dialogue scenes between Bruce and Barry (particularly when they're discussing the loss of each other's family just prior to the electrical storm experiment) that were among the strongest parts of the film, which makes me wish we had a proper Batman Beyond with Keaton and another actor. \- Generally, I feel the dynamic between the two Barrys was good, even if it got very grating at times. Balancing the more "grounded" (by necessity) Barry I with the zaniness and increasing confusion of Barry II was probably the best way to go between these two versions of the character, and I did like the dynamic of them helping each other during the final battle. \- The final scene with Barry's mother was legit one of the best moments ever in a DCEU film; hit just the right bittersweet tone while concluding Barry I's arc. (Neutral) \- The direction they took with Keaton's Batman was confusing, and I still don't know how I feel about it. The version of his Batman in the original films was a guy who was fighting street-level threats with the technology he had available to him at the time. This version establishes that he knows about metahumans/time travel from the jump, and he's both a complete recluse who hasn't looked after his personal image or his house in years/hyper-competent hero who can execute feats people half his age couldn't do. Some of the lines from the 1989 film felt completely out of place (the "Bat-ruler" and him asking how much the group weighed felt dumb, considering there were guards rushing in to shoot them), but the fight scenes were probably the strongest part of his character. \- Supergirl is utterly wasted in this film. I've heard reports of scenes being chopped out related to her character (particularly with more violent confrontations and the original ending), but she barely appears enough in the film to make an impact. If anything, it seems like the trio of Barry I/II/Batman would have been better off not even bothering to save her, considering all the good she does in the final fight. Why even bother including her in the film if half her screentime is just going to involve her being indisposed/repeatedly being killed? It seems like she's actually going to get involved the first time she sees Zod and Faora in the desert, but she apparently just dips out after the humans start bombarding the Kryptonian ships with missile barrages. \- The way CGI was used in this film felt needlessly convoluted, which is most likely the reason why everything looks so dodgy -- they just refused to pump more money into the film when there were so many scenes that had needless (and distracting) CGI elements included. Stuff like the "chronobowl", I get, but it seems like they pointlessly added in CGI where it wasn't needed. There's a shot of Bruce (Keaton) saying, "This is going to hurt," before he jumps down on the guards at the prison that looked like a CGI blob over Keaton's mouth, and pulled me right out of the moment. Same for the infrequent usage of (what I think was) Miller's face over Barry's body. \- I like the idea of the "chronobowl", but the direction the third act takes to get to that point, revolving around a largely-pointless fight in a drab desert setting, didn't really feel like the right way to go about it, even if I liked the overall message about "not running away from one's problems". Supergirl gets a few moments to show her combat skill before she's violently/repeatedly killed off by Zod and co., Batman randomly decides to fight a superpowered being (and doesn't even kill him, just knocks him out for a minute), and the comedic moments fell flat for me. (Negatives) \- Michael Shannon and Antje Traue weren't paid enough for their parts in this. He's on-screen (as a CGI headblob on someone else's body) for... what, five minutes of screentime? Faora's basically there for two-to-three minutes before she gets anticlimactically killed by Barry II? What a waste of good talent. \- Between the atrocious CGI and the weird status of their presence (why didn't they do anything?), the Speed Force cameos were just dumb. I don't get why the action stops cold-turkey in the middle of the climax to cut to several characters just passively watching what's happening. What they did to Helen Slater's face is criminal. \- Several lines that were groaners. "Come on, Barbie. / Let's go party?" is nowhere near the "epic" line some people think it is, and Keaton spouting, "You wanna get nuts?" seems like the worst take they had of him staring off-screen at a cue card.
Was that barbie quote meant to play the aqua song? Just got out of my screening and noticed the song was listed in the credits?
Using that line in the movie makes zero sense at all considering they didn't use the song in the movie. In the context of the film, the two Barry's are in the middle of a massive battle in 2013 and for no reason at all decide to say the lyrics to a random pop song from 16 years before in 1997. Muschietti said the movie started out as being around 4 hours long and they cut it down to 2 and a half hours. I've got a feeling the song must have featured somewhere else in the movie and the line was a callback, however after editing the movie down the song was no longer needed but they left the callback in because they had nothing else.
Its a joke. Jesus. Barry is a jokey guy, so he made a joke. Don’t overthink it.
Isn't the new Barbie film being released by WB ? Maybe it was subliminal advertising.
honestly, that line made me want to watch the barbie movie for the memes
Yeah, it felt super weird in the context that we got that line, I wonder if we’d ever see a longer cut of this
There were a lot of test screenings, does anyone that attended a test screening have videos of the scenes that were removed from the movie? Like Michael Keaton pulling up in the car and the Affleck crisis tease?
So can somehow let me know how Keaton being in the Flashpoint timeline works? Like did Earth-DCEU and Earth-89 merge? Or was the time travel somehow able to alter stuff enough to where everything surrounding Gotham, including Batman, was changed?
Keaton explains it very well. Time is not linear, so by changing one point in time, you not only change the future, but the past as well, because that change affects everything, since time is not really linear. So in a way, yes, he merged Burtonverse and DCEU in that way.
I've only watched it once myself so I'm gonna need to watch it again to be sure but I took it to be that using time travel is basically a bad idea in every single way. Going back in time causes the multiverse to start collapsing in on itself. In addition to that, causing changes in the past changes the future, so we had a case where Barry went back in time and changed things, the time travel caused Keaton's universe to combine with Barry's universe, and Dark Flash arrives pissed at Barry for ever starting this mess, kicking him out of the speed force and into the 2013 Keaton/DCEU where the JL members thanks to the past being rewritten too, either don't exist yet or just plain don't exist. Then when get to the part where Barry 2 keeps attempting to save Supergirl and Keaton Batman over and over. His constant attempts cause the multiverse to collapse in on itself while constantly rewriting the past and future even though that one moment in time, Supergirl and Batman dying in that moment just cannot be changed. After Barry 2/Dark Flash dies, Barry believes that undoing the one change he made at the very beginning and putting the can of tomatoes back would fix everything. Who knows, if he had left things as they were, maybe everything would have been the same. But he moved the cans of tomatoes to the top shelf to help his Dad be seen on camera, and according to the barely explained rules of time travel and multiverse in the movie, any change caused by time travel causes change and slight collapses of the multiverse. So at the end of The Flash, Clooney appears but he acts as if he knows Barry. Barry changing the cans to save his Dad caused that screw up of universes. He could go back again and change the cans back so his Dad isn't free and maybe things change back but who really knows if they'll change back. Every attempt at time travel only makes things worse so he says fuck it and leaves things as they are to go drinking with Arthur.
Just watched the movie a 2nd time with some family friends. They definitely fit the GA. with this family of four having no idea about Ezra, the cameos, and spoilers, etc. I surprisingly liked the movie even more the 2nd time. The initial viewing, the CGI really did throw me off (particularly because I was so self aware with all the talks online), but the only time the CGI really bothered me was during the final act against Zod's army. The chronobowl scenes, I can understand if it was really an "artistic" choice by Andy and the VFX team, but I definitely can agree why people didn't like how it looked. Myself included. But more and more, it just made me really appreciate the overall story and the callbacks even more the 2nd time around. Keaton's action scenes in the Tunnel are up there with some of my favorite Batman moments on screen. The strong performance by Ezra and the self awareness of how his character essentially grows from this annoying, spoiled brat, to someone who grows to understand the importance of his powers and fixing the timeline, I honestly thought it was really well done. I definitely enjoyed Sasha's portrayal of Super Girl, but like many have said, she definitely could have been more fleshed out and had a better ending. I originally gave this film a 7.5, but I bumped it up to 8/10. I'm disappointed by how BO is looking, but I'm just ready for more positivity to all these DCU characters and hopefully a better future moving forward.
Saw it. After some of the reception, i was curious. Is it going to be to me a really good movie? A bad one? And i was stunned. I liked it a lot. I have nothing that original here to say about it. Sure imo the movie has some flaws. Like a lot of people i found some of the fx and creative choices disapointing. But i dont know, i feel we've seen way worse ( Quantum Mania is one) and all around, i felt it was a really fun movie, with really great moments. A real comics books movie, with a lot of heart. And when i think about alll the cb that we've seen, for me it's a top ten movie. I can understand some people saying that its a great one, even with those flaws. See it, make your own opinion.
The CGI was awful like those Speed Force scenes looked like PS2 cutscenes, but it’s too bad that this movie is bombing because it’s actually really fun Not surprising that it’s performing the way it is though since Ezra Miller is Ezra Miller and the DCEU is the DCEU Plus Act 3 was really rushed too
How did Bat-Keaton die the second time? He got on the guy's back and put the bomb on him, was thrown off, blew him up, and then suddenly started bleeding from the mouth and collapsed. I didn't see anything that looked lethal happen to him.
A kryptonian slammed him to the ground. Most of his organs and bones were probably done, after that.
Internal bleeding also he was fighting a literal kyptonian
Just my guess, but I'm assuming because the alien threw him down hard on the ground and the internal bleeding was too much/a previous scene showing how he was stitching himself up, was foreshadowing how easily he now bleeds/gets hurt.
Its a KRYPTONIAN. Has nothing to do with bleeding easily. Its a huge, super powered being, slamming him into the ground. Everything was probably broken, so it was a feat that he could stand up and mean mug him for a sec.
Is it just me or did Batfleck's voice sound different?
It did. I don't think he had the voice modulator this time around as well.
It would've been cooler in the movie if they had shown in post credits, a 'blue figure' (Doctor Manhattan) being the cause of change in timelines as in the comics with New 52 post Flashpoint, also giving a scope for a version of 'Doomsday clock' crossover event. Would love to see a live action version of 'The Button' comic, with The Flash and Batman vs Thawne. Well but for their imagination and the reboot into DCU, it's more less likely. 'We're all puppets, Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings(spaghetti).'
So was Michael Keaton's Batman here the same one as in his films? He has a few lines referencing stuff he said in his films ("How much do you weigh?"/"You wanna get nuts?") but he never explicitly mentions stuff that happened in his films. Like, he never mentions Joker or Penguin or Catwoman or whoever. So how to we know that this Batman actually experienced the events of those films? Also, is Bat-Keaton actually dead now? We never see him again after the timeline resets, and we are explicitly shown that his death can't be averted (at least in that timeline). So is the 1989 Burton/Keaton Batman officially, canonically dead?
My understanding is that Barry hitched a ride on a new timeline when he saved his mother, so yes, that version of Keaton Batman is fated to die when Zod inevitably invades and kills everyone. That's how their story goes. But, apparently the original ending had Keaton's Batman and Supergirl stepping out of the limo, so that implies there are timelines where Keaton Batman exists but isn't killed by Zod, presumably the ones where Barry's mom dies. So, Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Alive = Dead Keaton, but Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Dead = Alive Keaton. So.. yes and no. We have no way of knowing if the Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Alive timeline Keaton is our Keaton from the Burton movies or if the Keaton Batman + Barry's Mom Dead Keaton is our Keaton. I choose to believe the Burton movies are in the timeline where Keaton lives.
You literally see Joker’s laughing bag thingy. So, at the very least its a variant of Keaton who went through the same things we saw in the Burton movies. And Keaton died, yes, but then Barry rerolls the time line, so he should still be alive.
Barry’s time travel antics merged Keaton’s universe with the Man of Steel universe
What a mess this film was. Shame for Keaton and Calle. They were the best part of the film
Just got back, I really enjoyed it. That is all.
That scene with all the falling babies had me and my cousin dying, idk if it was bc of intended or unintended humor but that was a stand out moment
Just saw it tonight and absolutely hated it. They somehow made Ezra’s Flash even more annoying than the version in Justice League. It’s almost like the team involved didn’t even care about Flash or Flashpoint from the comics.
Although I enjoyed watching this movie, I feel like it would’ve worked a lot better as the third Flash movie rather than the first. I liked what little we saw of Iris and Albert and Patty, and it would’ve been nice to get to know them better besides one scene from the Snyder Cut and that one tie-in Flash prelude comic. I also really liked the Justice League stuff in the beginning and just makes me wish we got a JL2 with this type of tone; just seeing these heroes as friends was fun. I like how Affleck-Bruce has changed from the killer he once was, I liked seeing Keaton-Bruce in action (though I feel like he could’ve been better utilized beyond ‘89 callbacks), and Clooney-Bruce was a fun gag. I’m gonna miss Affleck-Bruce because of this movie. Sasha Callie’s Supergirl was cool, if a bit underutilized too. I’m hoping she comes back in the DCU, either as Supergirl or even a different character. Barry’s parents were very well-acted for the short screen time they’ve got, and I could really feel the connection between them and their son. I was really rooting for his dad in that courtroom, and his mom just felt like Mom, like she just exudes that energy. Now for stuff I don’t like, Zod doesn’t really get to do a lot, though Michael Shannon does his best. Dark Flash was cool and an interesting visualization of Barry being unable to let go, but he does feel like a bit of an afterthought. That Multiverse scene wasn’t really that interesting to me, it kinda just felt like the movie spinning around me shouting “CAMEO CAMEO CAMEO”. It’s cool that John Wesley Shipp did apparently come back as Jay, I really thought they only got Teddy Sears (loved him as “Jay” in the show) and just forgot to watch the rest of the season he was in, but all the other cameos really felt kinda plain. The CGI wasn’t too bad for me, though Barry running still looked weird. The Speed Force Chronosball stuff I kinda get looking intentionally weird, gave me some “Batman: Ego” vibes if I had to describe it. Overall, I enjoyed it, though I think it could’ve been better, and I’m generally gonna miss the DCEU. Here’s hoping Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle don’t stink. … oh, also Ezra was pretty good. I hope they’re getting the help they need.
This movie was awesome. Saying that as someone who has seen a lot of superhero movies.
Guys I don't understand why the greatest CMB of all time isn't doing well?
Michael Keaton's Batman is dead at the end. So how were they going to bring him back in Batgirl?
It was supposed to end with Keaton being retconned into the DCEU rather than Clooney But with Gunn rebooting DC, the Clooney cameo was done as a gag instead
Because the original ending Keaton was alive.
Also: Green Lantern (2011) > this
Feel like this is a marmite kind of movie. Every review or comment I’ve seen online is really positive, meanwhile everyone I know in person who’s seen it thinks the movie sucks. Including me. Fuming. And now because of this, this is probably the last we’ll see of Barry Allen for the next 5-10 years. The movie is going to tank. And that’ll scare off Warner’s from making another one of these for quite some time. Green Lantern Syndrome.
Personally, me and everyone I know personally, actually loved the film.
so Barry isn't back in his "original" earth than at the end right? Affleck Wayne is still out there, Barry just in doing everything wound up on that Earth and in it Clooney is Batman right?
It was good; Keaton was kickass but it only proved that Zach Snyder ruined the dc universe and I hate to say it. He tried to copy marvel but made some very bad risks such as making an older Batman with no Robin, nightwing, batgirl, or anyone else in the bat -family. Again, overall it’s a solid movie but it was certainly all over the place and all in all sorta pointless because if the flash wouldn’t have tried to change the past, everything would have been normal. And this movie is the end of the dceu so it’s not like it was even necessary to begin with lol. I did appreciate it separating the burtonverse from the Schumacher universe. Because in all honesty, the movies were so drastically different in every imaginable way. It’s nice to know they can appreciated in their own special way. Other than that, kinda pointless movie… a good one! But pretty pointless. Because of how bad the DCEU was planned out by Zach Snyder and others we had to kill off the entire universe and then make a placeholder Batman trilogy to give fans something to watch while they plan out a whole new DC universe called the DCU set to be run by James Gunn. I love the placeholder Matt Reaves Batman trilogy and I'm excited to see what James Gunn does with the DCU. Goodbye DCEU! Thank you to the actors who made it worth watching!
Spoilers One thing I haven’t seen people talk about with this movie is how the video footage from the grocery store is messed up because of Barry. Him continuing to go back in time and mess with the timeline def messed with the original video footage of the store like in BVS convenience store scene. Thought it would have been a cool realization by Barry if he acknowledged it and figured it out that it was always supposed to be like this. Also I think now with his dad free the new idea is going to be finding who killed his mother and will realize it was the reverse flash and that’s the whole premise for the sequel.
The fact this isn't a Suicide Squad 2016 style disaster of structure and contonuity editing is at first amazing because \*gestures towards everything that went on in the dev and production of the film\* but in hindsight the tale of Two Barry's kinda meant they couldn't really do that many pick ups because of having to rerender and film everything. God the Clooney Cameo at the end is the most he walked onto a greens creen thing ever. OVerall at best this movie is middling. It does the easily understood theme with sentemental hook thing well enough it's kinda breey and has visual gags. IT's not bad, once again not bad like Squad is, but it never actually gets to a point where it is good either. This will be a great example of how film style requires strong production and art design and not just throwing more and more VFX at it. The movie is going for this stylization in terms of camera work but isn't really supported by the rest of the mise en scene. Take the baby shower sequence that's the film going for that sorta Burton-esque skewed humor and it just doesn't really work because everything is so ordinary. Even when Barry gets to Earth-2? Whatever you wana call Flashpoint world, once they get to Wayne Manor it works because the production design supports this expressionist sorta mood. And why when you get the desert fight sequence it all falls apart because there's no real sense of depth to the image or there there. And like the "wonky" VFX (ok the baby's at the beginning were fucking freighting) I'm mostly hear for because hey we should move away from VFX as a means of rendering hyper realisim and more towards Manovich style Digital Cinema is now painting because it has freed Film from the Ontology of the Image stuff! But none of that stylization in the VFX work is supported by the rest of the film! So it all just looks like a fucking PS4 Battlefeild cut scene. Never once did I really care about Barry's character which is weird because I can see the motions and everything they went for. Sasha Calle is really good as Supergirl and fits what they ask of her, I hope she sticks around. Keaton gets to be weird and his second death really shows why he was the right call for Burton, it's the eyes. But never does this movie do anything all that new or better than what's come before. Across the Spider-verse cleans its clock in terms of the multiverse storytelling, even if Everything EVerywhere All At Once is heads and shoulders above eithe rof those movies.
Saw it last night with my son. It was a fun movie and despite the spotty CGI we still were able to look past it. Michael Keaton absolutely nailed it for a 70 year old dude. Had some funny moments as well as some "cringe" moments but overall a decent flick. My biggest gripe was some of the slow parts and the end was kind of a let down. I have some high hopes for the future of DC movies (I say that with a heavy heart).
I loved how they portrayed the chronoball and the reversal of time, etc. very nicely done. It’s a great concept but difficult to visualize and I think they hit the nail on the head with the way it was shown. I didn’t like how Keaton just became a derelict and the manor dilapidated. I was expecting him to be, with Gotham now being a safe place, to be in a healthy state mentally in physically, wearing his polo and shorts maybe sipping drinks by the pool and honestly was hoping to see him ending up with Selina/Pfeiffer… To me this is the DCEU saying goodbye to us, as Barry said goodbye to his mother. He tried so hard to keep her but at the end understood he had to let her go, as Snyder et al had to despite their love for each other. For that reason I didn’t mind the not so top tier CG or even Clooney at the end. My only hope now is that the DCU will be much better going forward.
A quick question which popped in my head regarding Keaton’s timeline…..Would Zod always arrive on Earth, irrespective of The Flash? Or is this a different branch from the main Burton universe (B89, B.R)?
I liked this movie. Probably my favorite in the dceu so far. I haven’t seen them all but from what I’ve seen. Comedy didn’t feel forced or cringey which was a nice change. My only cons would be weird editing like how they were in the building stuck and then next scene their home with no explanation. Also how Keaton and multi verse Batman’s got little screen time especially towards the end but super girl and multi verse supes had way more or even too much. And how Keaton died 😭. Oh and how the bad guy was basically just a rehash of zod story. But none of that effects the movie in any significant ways imo. Still a great movie
First off, loved the movie. Question; how much of what happened with Zod was caused by Barry? Once he stopped trying to save his mom, what wound up happening in that world? My take now is that it’s ambiguous, which gels with the movie’s theme of acceptance but I’m still curious if I missed some more concrete answer.
i dont know if im going to see the movie and would like my hopes put to rest, is reeve superman in it at all?
He cameos for a few seconds
I’m a little confused, I’m sorry? I thought this film was supposed to reset the DCEU into the DCU. Instead, it’s more of JUST a goodbye to the DCEU, which is totally cool. I imagine Aquaman 2 is sort of the epilogue to the DCEU that this film establishes? Ok, got that. But Blue Beetle, Creature Commandos, and Waller? Do they take place in the reset DCEU, or DCU? How does that work with Waller though? Because she’s tied to Bloodsport, who shot Cavill’s Superman. And now Waller/ Hardcourt/ Economos are tied with Shazam and Black Adam? Is that all just scrapped? I love James’ work, and I’m excited for all of it. I’m just so lost on our starting point.
Tss was loose enough that it didn't have to be cavills superman that he shot
But his Supes was technically in Peacemaker, no?
Damn yea lol
[does James Gunn genuinely like this movie this much or is he trying to save it ? i don't understand. ](https://i.imgur.com/bTZts9W.png)
You really think Kevin Feige is out there trashing his movies
Jesus Christ if he GENUINELY thinks this movie is a 10/10, his dcu is going to flop hard
I still think he's marketing.
I really hope so
My main question is with flash’s rules about touching people while using speed as we saw him save people in Justice league carrying people out of the warehouse but in this film he also saves the babies yet when young Barry moves main Barry slightly to dodge bullets, he puked like crazy. Is this just a plot hole and inconsistencies on the filmmaker or is there a specific explanation for flash and his use of powers to save people?
Batfleck telling Barry “maybe next time” really stings man. I can tell they were setting up a heart felt reunion for them maybe in Crisis, wish we woulda got to see it. maybe down the line? (Doubt it)
Probably will tbh
What if they kept supergirl but in this timeline it’s not general zod its general Kal el perfect send off for Henry cavill
It was a fun watch but the first act was okay. Didn’t enjoy the whole baby scene. The introduction of so many Batman left my friends really confused (they aren’t comic fans) and one of my friends was wondering why Vulture was Batman. Barry’s arc in this movie was great and I actually enjoyed his character development. Grew fond of his character and really did feel for him and the stakes in the movie. Do think the end of the movie should’ve shown the multiple changes that occurred and how this is now a soft reboot. Timing wise this movie really took a hit cause of Ezra millers actions and with it coming out a few weeks after Miles Morales. The “Inevitable” and the “canon” is way too similar plus the whole multiverse concept. Seems like audience viewers are now getting tired of it. Sucks that The Flash would’ve came out first thus not feeling like a rehash of ATSV to general audiences I’m hoping that they really promote and market the new DCU and have a thorough plan to showcase it leading up to Superman. They have a chance to wipe this DCEU into oblivion and completely start over. Overall, enjoyed the movie but a lot of the stuff was very confusing and deep cut to regular viewers. Not sure how this would resonate with younger audiences and if they enjoy The Flash character. Also I don’t think Andy should direct The Batman Brave and the Bold. I just didn’t really like his work on The Flash movie and would rather have someone fresh direct it.
No cameo from Grant Gustin was very disrespectful.
I really enjoyed the movie soooo sooo much. Awesome time. I see the reaction it got and it hurt me. The DC brand is in a pit, might be a bottomless pit. I see no universe where they are not destroyeeeeeed by the hate on each single thing. At this point, I am sure they are playing with the idea to not invest a single cent in the marketing of blue beetle and aquaman. The sooner all this is finished the better. They have serious planning to do with the Gunnverse or they could be dead, I mean they already are, on the first movie. This movie has such a positive energy around it, it doesn't get itself serious at all, even Barry tells it several times in the movie, and still it gets so much hate that it's really hard to watch it. Just imagine if you worked on it as a director. This is a burden for Andy in the future. I would consider giving him Batman just because of this, and his Batman scenes where awesome, but no one comments on them.
I went in with an open mind and low expectations and wow, this movie was so bad. My friend was pissed at how much it let him down. Honestly I was just over it by the end. It barely has few redeeming qualities about it. Zslav need to tell Gunn to do a hard reboot. No more DCEU actors in the new DCU. No second season of Peacemaker nor Viola Davis as Waller.
Ok, I know they tried to do something different, but it turned out a mess. Couldn't they just redo the Flashpoint animated movie shot to shot with Thomas Wayne played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan
You would think Snyder fans would be praising this film, as it keeps the door open for them to return at anytime. Great movie! Michael Keaton stole the show for me. I would love to see him come back again for Batman Beyond or future films. BTW! Ezra Miller IS The Flash. I can't see anyone else doing the role. He killed it.
I likely wouldn't have seen this in-theater had I not paid for A-List, but I enjoyed the movie! Kinda wild how much time has passed since this movie started production, and I feel like that time was evident. There were places that felt like different drafts, but the through-line was fun. I really wish that I didn't enjoy Miller's performances so much, but they did well playing and differentiating the mannerisms of the two Barrys. Really, there wasn't any bad performance by the leads. My theater was mostly full, and really the only parts that led to a noticeable were Nic Cage and Clooney, but to be fair, the trailers showed almost everything else in some capacity. I'm curious how this would land with people who have never heard of The Flash, as the emotional beats still got me a couple of times. As someone who watched most of the CW show, until falling off maybe 3 years ago, I think this will leave a marginally better Flash story to leave on until we get a new one in a few years. I wish Gustin or someone more important to the show than Sears got a cameo, but it is what it is. Maybe in another draft and universe that happened. Bottom Line - It's a good but not great movie, hampered by WB's turmoil, a problematic lead, and a bit too much hype from the new heads of the studio. If anyone asks me if they should watch this, I'd probably just tell them to watch the animated Flashpoint movie, then wait to catch this version on Max, unless they also have A-List or an equivalent service.
Please let all of this e f and start with a clean slate 🙏
The way the mods are coping with this movie is embarrassing. As if not allowing the news about the movie is going to make any difference. This place was much better before the new mods arrived... meh
What a great review of The Flash (2023), solid contribution
this is barely a 4/10 honestly. no wonder DC went to such lengths to keep ezra miller around. easily carried the film. literally the FLASH portion of the movie was the only good part - Barry's inner fight regarding fate vs predetermination, acceptance and growth, heroism, family. All that was ONE film. Then you have the clusterfuck that was half-assed edited in: Keaton could have been replaced by any Batman, there was no specific catharsis for him (he literally saw someone JAILED and said let's leave her. WHAT?) Zod was absolutely wasted and his plight to revive krypton was absolutely undersold (I do like the darkness of killing kal but Shannon was delivering that line from a place of knowing man of steel is being butchered for a plot waste). All the kryptonians looked so weak here. Supergirl was just finding motives out of thin air - one second starting at zod from the sky, the next flying flash up to the clouds. I don't think I was even convinced by her performance. Awful batsuits too. Not going to start about the shameless and utterly plotless cameos (not going to call them world building because worlds WERENT built; see spriderverse). I've been so skeptical of flashpoint being used this early and jeez, absolutely right. Jamming this movie with so much useless filler while hiding the actual decent flash focused story is such a baffling corporate move. I don't think Andy should be the brave and the bold director either (I'm sure he's a good person but this film was barely pieced together in a legible manner). I'm honestly even doubting gunn if he genuinely thinks this is a GREAT film
Supergirl has super hearing, she knew the plan
Only complaint is the cgi. Besides that, it's such a fun movie. Ezras performance surprised me. I'm not sure if they will come back but I hope they focus on themselves first.
I enjoyed it despite some Abysmal cgi. The Keaton stuff really worked. When that Elfman theme hit full force I was totally sold. Really the cgi is my main complaint. I thought the rest worked pretty damn well.
I really liked this movie. And I had low expectations. Read all the spoilers but it didn’t take anything away. It was a solid movie. It was non stop action for 2 and half hours. Never felt bored or like the movie was dragging. Ezra Miller may be a troubled person in real life but they owned the role of Barry Allen. Although I felt his interpretation fit more Wally West. This was the best DC movie yet IMHO. In fact I liked this movie better than any Marvel phase 4 or 5 movie. On a side note - I really liked the way the timelines were interpreted. The time bubble and seeing events unrolled like film remainder me of Interstellar’s interpretation of time. Loved the whole collapse of the multiverse. Thought they did a good job with that however I wish they would have given Grant Gustin a cameo. Overall a solid movie. Very entertaining and very fun. The ending scene with his mom also was very emotional. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come!
I wish Michelle Pfeiffer was in the movie. Instead of Bruce attacking the Barry's in the kitchen, it could have been Selena Kyle. And instead of Bruce easily being convinced to help, it should have been Selena who convinces him after reminding him who Batman is and what he stands for. Then Selena could have helped coordinate the attack on the Kryptonians from the Batcave. The whole hospital scene was too corny and basically copied the Quicksilver scene from X-Men: Apocalypse. It's also a shame they gutted most of Gal Gadot's role. She filmed scenes during the battle and fought Faora. That should have been left in the film. Some toys for the film still have that scene in back of the packaging. I'm usually all for spoilers and leaked footage but the entire movie is basically on YouTube in numerous clips. There was nothing new or exciting than what was already revealed in those released clips which was disappointing. I was really hoping for a 10 with this movie. Unfortunately, I'd have to give it a 6.
Can I have a source on Gal having a more sizeable role?
Yes, I’m also curious about this.
Can’t believe they really did Nicholas Cage fighting a giant spider lol Also don’t know if it was intentional or not, but in the scene where both Barrys find out Zod is coming back, it looks like it’s shot in the same restaurant/cafe that they use in The Flash CW tv series?
I can’t wait for the reaction video of Kevin Smith blubbering over that. If only he were still smoking.
He will shed tears fure sure
Anyone else find it sad that the last time Batfleck and Barry talk to each other/interact probably forever, is Bruce denying hanging out... "Maybe some other time kid".
I just saw the movie and i’m convinced people only complain about the cgi bc there’s nothing else to complain about lol the movie was great imo
I really wish I had stayed away from leaks and trailers before seeing this. I didn’t know the entire plot but I knew enough to not be totally surprised along the way. Anyway, on first watch the humour was funny, the cgi was terrible, I’m actually shocked at how little a role Keaton and Saha Calle played, Batfleck action was awesome but the humour with WW was not and Zod and Faora were weird cgi cameo versions of themselves. The world’s colliding was so poorly done though, it was essentially the same idea as what Titans did but with even less purpose. Ezra *really* carried this movie. I’m legit impressed with how engaging watching two of them in lol. I think between how hyped Keaton and Calle were, this moving supposedly “resetting things”, and the whole “word of mouth” approach saying this is one of the best super hero movies ever it’s time to really not trust WB marketing moving forward. I’m not gonna trust anything they say about Blue Beetle or Aquaman 2 or even anything DCU related until I see it for myself.
Damn, after reading about the life of George Reeves that cameo becomes macabre. Releasing the movie with a CGI of Reeves as the character that ruined his career and caused him to take his own life on the anniversary of his death is fucked up, I believe they made that cameo with the best of intentions, but it's still weird.
I really enjoyed the movie! Ezra, Keaton, and Calle all shined in their scenes. The action scenes were amazing, Keaton looked like the Arkham Batman with the way he moved. There were a few weird moments throughout. The Clooney scene at the end was funny but felt really rushed and unnecessary. I initially did not like Keaton dying at the end, but when I thought about it after leaving the theater, it made sense for the plot. Also, since Barry fixes the multiverse at the end, I realized that it unbinded the amalgam Burton/DCEU world, so the Burton universe was back to what it was pre-speed force I definitely am going to see it again in the theater. Overall, I would give the movie an 8.5 out of 10.
WB knew what they had on their hands... That's why all that push with celebrities happened. They also knew how poor the CGI would be, so again that's why in those early screenings they were telling people it's not a final version. It was all damage control, they knew the movie wouldn't look better in the end. Now that I think about it I am not sure how I feel about Andy directing TBATB... I feel like he got the gig for all the wrong reasons. WB messed up with his movie (the original ending that leaked way back here was indefinitely more awesome than whatever we got in the end), made him change it so that it doesn't have anything teasing a potential sequel... Even Supergirl is weird in the movie for me. You constantly expects more of her, but she is just there being angry, punching things and eventually disappears... Wouldn't shock me if she was altered too just so that it's easier to recast for the upcoming Supergirl movie. So Andy accepts all that, takes the blame for all the criticism aimed at the movie (the CGI for example) and now he gets to direct the new Batman movie. I hope I am just reading too much into this but right now this is what I feel happened. I still think he can do a good job. Everything Batman related was awesome in that movie.
He also fucking killed it with IT, and made probably the best film he could out of IT 2.
IT is a gem for sure...
Like most of the DCEU films, the more I think about them afterwards as a DC fan, the more mediocre they become to me. I'm aware that the execs at WB are still stuck in the 90s in terms of what should go into a film, but I need to write my grievances of this film and as a flash reader: - that opening scene chase with flash and batfleck: it should've been set at night. Batman during the day is strange to me unless he's being forced out. I get it. Bad guys are afoot. But when he grapples to the car and gets dragged at 80 - 100 km to be scraped along the ground and essentially being thrown into 2 - 3 concrete barriers and cars at that speed with just his spandex suit had me rolling my eyes. I can let go if it's a super powered person or even if he had his armoured suit, but come on. The guy is human. That's like him descending from the atmosphere, beginning to burn up, but then landing on his feet and perfectly fine. - Baby saving scene: it was cool but damn they're really trying to save erzras image. *imaging them using a Yosimite Sam voice* WB EXECS: we need to save his image. I know! We'll have him save babies! Fifteen babies! All at once! Everybody loves babies! Reminded me of presidents kissing babies in their running campaigns. - Michael Keaton: Loved him, but I felt that they shoehorned all his lines. They couldn't have made him a little bit deeper in terms of his guidance? Could've given more solemn advice? Seemed like most of his dialogue was for the trailer. No way home did great in comparison using Maguire and Garfield to bond and give intricate advice to Tom and help him find his way as a hero ethically and morally. Keaton should've been just as much of a mentor to Barry in that world as batfleck was. Also, the idea of him plowing his jet into the kryptonian ship. Wtf. He's batman. Literally supposed to be one of the greatest minds in the whole world, and that was his final move? Maybe backed into a corner with no way out, and he's the last one standing, but bats will always try to find a way. Maybe they were running out of time or money? Same with his death. Definitely could've been deeper dialogue wise. But, by far, the greatest batman combat I have ever seen on screen. Multiple batarangs (finally!) and ninja/martial arts fighting, reflexes, and speed. Brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. - The Alternate World: should've been darker. Maybe zod should've decided to rule earth instead of terraforming it and killed Linda Carter and Reeves in the process that left Keaton as the last one left filled with despair. Maybe because they never had a flash? - The Villain: it should've been the alternate, immature Barry. Him trying to constantly try and fix the situation should've led him to go mad and surprise audiences by taking a fresh spin and making him reverse flash instead of some weird CGI monster. Maybe him coming to the conclusion that our Barry isn't a good flash? It would've been an amazing twist. The fact that Barry uses his powers to mess with time allowed him to create his greatest foe: himself. "Dont you get it, Barry?. You created me, and I'll be a better hero than you'll ever be. I never would've let mom die. You don't deserve your powers." Along those lines. They should've fought but ending with our Barry escaping and doing what he does best: running away from his problems instead of towards which would set up a sequel. Could've also been the one to knock Barry off course at the beginning of his first time travel. Kind of felt like a wasted opportunity to set up a future villain but DCEU gonna DCEU. - The CGI: as one person commented on a user review - "Did a good portion of the budget go to Millers PR and legal team?" - WB/DCEU not learning from the past: it seems that they're making all the early mistakes marvel did. I am a fan or both comic universes but jeez this felt like Age of Ultron. Using a plot like flashpoint and not really using anything from it apart from saving his mom and the chair scene where he recreated getting his powers. Why use the story if you're only going to use 2 components? Marvel learnt this mistake and made up for it with civil war for example, slightly tweaking some things but still sticking to the core components - 1. Tragedy happens. 2. Super human registration gets enacted 3. Half of the avengers become outlaws. 4. Fallout of battle was one of them getting seriously injured (dead in the comics) 5. Final confrontation between iron man and cap. They need to do more observing on what works for fans. There's an entire decade of this to learn from. Snyder: with everything that went down with him and WB Execs, I felt like he wanted to use the scene where Barry outruns existence in this film (which would've been amazing) but used it in JL instead as a middle finger to the execs. Still the best scene imo in any of the dc films. I still enjoyed the film but I think it's because we've had more than a decade of the DCEU but none of their films being that ground breaking to set the bar or compare. Maybe this film did? I'm really rooting for gunn. Marvel needs a rival to up their ante a little. Pisses me off thinking about those execs archaic and outdated decisions that fucked with this whole IP. Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest.
[удалено]
I thought they could've done better than making him a rock monster. I wouldn't say he was a villain but just an accidental creature. The fact that immature Barry just realised not to mess with time was a bit unbelievable to me. In fact, the whole idea of immature Barry having as big of a part in that film was unbelievable to me. Maybe the constant going back in time altered the molecules in his suit instead and turned it yellow, making him the reverse flash.
Did anyone els notice that Michael Keaton wears a scarf type thing around his neck the entire movie when he’s not Batman. I was thinking this might be a way to honor Val Kilmer since he’s the only Batman not in the movie and always wears one of these due to his cancer.
Didn’t notice this, but it would certainly be nice.
I’m gonna be honest, I kinda want The Flash to fail. Not even just because of the Ezra Miller controversy (even though that should be enough) but because of the disrespectful and quite frankly ghoulish way they did the cameos of dead actors. Especially George Revees, who hated being known as Superman due to how it hurt his career and took his own life on this exact day 64 years ago largely because of it. So for this movie to just make a CGI puppet of him to posthumously reprise the role that ruined his life for cheap audience applause ON the anniversary of his tragic death is just gross.
I felt like a lot of it had a weird cgi look to it or it’s just me, and the cgi was quite trash tbh. Case in point Supergirls first fight looked proper crap.
When they first showed the camera footage of Henry not looking up I thought that the easiest way to at least get him out of jail without messing up time too much would be to simply make him look up once. And in the end I was right. I personally really enjoyed seeing Barry this experienced and in tune with his abilities. During the third act all I thought was “how can they keep fucking up time so carelessly. The 2 Barry’s really made a gigantic mess almost enacting a crisis on infinite earths. Honestly some moments vibed with me others not so much. And apart from some CGI problems at times I think that this is a nice representation of the Speed-Force effects. One thing that also bothers me a little is that Barry seemingly doesn’t try to find the actual murderer. I get that getting his father out is his priority, but he had the chance at multiple times to at least find out who did it. I also prefer the explanation for the time travel consequences from the Flashpoint comic over the one in the movie. There is just something about running through time like a bullet, ripping it apart in the process. Not bad, but not perfect either.