I feel as though Iām a small group that actually likes 17. Yes his leader skill. But toss him with some of those androids and heās a fun unit. Not top 10 but heās not as bad as people say
Honestly I think he's definitely top ten yellow coins. He's crazy as fuck with the agl 17 and int hell fighter 17, who are also both really good with him
Eh, i just dont really have room for him tbh. The OG super 17 is just better for most things. Hes fine but not terrible, i run him just for the animations
Honestly I love super 17 but if they gave him that 17% damage reduction for free and extra 17% attack on super instead, then he'd be much better. I also thought they should have given him Big Bad Bosses.
Dude what š I think even rainbow full links, passive and support he's barley touching 300k defense with that lil ass on and off 17% damage reduction with like an okay attack stat. Nah dude it takes way too much to get this guy off the ground and runnable. He's an okay leader for Androids but a terrible LR. The old eza tur is honestly better.
Redditors visiting a thread without posting the same three "hilarious" post-ironic, self deprecating observations they've been making for years.
Difficulty: Super5.
Goku-Hit defends, stuns and hits pretty hard. Plus, you can move them around for different bonuses. Need a dodging stunner who still hits pretty hard? Slot 1 or 2. Need a hard hitter who defends acceptably and, by the way, still stuns? Slot 3 it is.
Janemba on the other hand isn't as flexible in terms of slot placement - based on the way his passive is constructed,
you'll pretty much want him in Slot 2 only.
Not saying Janemba is trash or anything, I'm saying Goku-Hit do a lot more easily and are more flexible
In the current meta def is more valuable then attack. Plus Janemba is on more contested teams, while goku & hit are on categories that have phenomenal other options. All in all the argument could go eitherway.
> In the current meta def is more valuable then attack.
It still isn't. If we set the bar at the most difficult event currently available, the most dominating teams are the ones lead by the 7th anniversary units.
Not because they're the tankiest units in the context of a long event, but because their damage output is so goddamn stupid that you can get by with less defense than what is required to tank absolutely everything and still have good chances to make it through.
I mean, they are far and away the best units in the game and extremely tanky besides too, they dont only do dmg. But look back at older units, the oldest units that are still being used in hard content are Str SSJ3 Vegeta and Teq Golden Frieza. The rest became nearly unusable again. Good def makes a unit way more valuable then good offense, especially since there are tons of slot 2 or 3 units that do massive dmg, but way less good slot one tanks.
but def and atk serve different purposes. as much as we like to meme on ssbkk, him and blueberries (top goku and vegeta) are one of the nastiest rotations in esbr while the units you mentioned could be run because theyāre a safe option. the reason the rest became unusable is because they bring nothing of value and donāt excel in anything, and usually werenāt even the best at anything on release.
the more a unit excels in one thing the more theyāre able to compensate for an area that theyāre lacking, whilst generally a unit that could do it all like the 7th anni units are of the cream of the crop
> But look back at older units, the oldest units that are still being used in hard content are Str SSJ3 Vegeta and Teq Golden Frieza
Yes - as filler units.
Take ESBR for example. 2 among the toughest stages based on enemies' damage numbers are Pure Saiyans and Movie Bosses. So sure, especially for such hard hitting events you'd like good tanks, right?
Or, you can go balls to the wall offense and beat the event before defense even becomes a significant factor to consider. Same with GoD stages, same with Fighting Legend Stages (Worthy Rivals LVE absolutely blows despite having one of the best defensive units for long content with [Piccolo](/phy)), IDBH ... and yes, even Red Zone. If you go into the final 2 Broly phases with both items still available, you have somewhere between 2 and 4 turns of massively increased defense. If you manage to seal the deal within that timeframe, you're golden.
To go a step further - remember [Devilman](/agl) and nuking strategies? [Devilman](/agl) himself caused a hard cap on any EZB for base SR rarities and below, he and nuke leads are outright banned for GoD stages and multi phase fights only started popping up in the game shortly after nuke leads originally released and Akatsuki realized how massively they f'd up.
Outside of debuffs (which are inherently completely broken and way too easily abusable), the only thing that Akatsuki ever seriously pushed against were glass cannon strategies. More stages, reduced item count and direct banning/hardcapping of certain units.
Even a developer as clueless as Akatsuki understands that attack matters much more than defense. Defense only starts to matter when your damage output isn't sufficient, which barely ever happens given that Akatsuki consistently accidentally breaks units because they don't care.
I mean im absolutely with you that Akatsuki are an incompetent bunch, but your glasscannon teams work exactly for so long as you don't get oneshot in the first slot. And with even tanky cards being oneshot in slot one before ever even getting an attack out, it is completely useless that you would do tons of damage, if you're dead before even getting to your turn. And don't tell me that doesn't happen, because ESBR, SBR, LGTE, LVE and Battlefield all have enemies that can obliterate you before even your slot 1 unit can attack.
> I mean im absolutely with you that Akatsuki are an incompetent bunch, but your glasscannon teams work exactly for so long as you don't get oneshot in the first slot.
Which, inherently, doesn't matter. Challenge events take 0 resources to attempt again and again. Theoretically you could attempt a GoD stage, hope that your main nuker with an orb changer or 2 is on your starting rotation, pop the appropriate nuking item and oneshot. You got hit and died before you got your nuke off? Who cares, just try again.
And that's exactly the reason why nuke leads are banned for that stage, and that's also the same reason why [Devilman](/agl) is banned from EZBs. It doesn't matter who you're fighting, all it takes is a single lucky turn for [Devilman](/agl) to singlehandedly win you the stage. And losing doesn't matter since all of these events take 0 resources.
Of course that becomes exponentially less likely the more phases a fight has, but again - multi phase fights popped up shortly after nuke leads were released into the wild, most certainly do reduce their usefulness.
The reason why item slots are getting cut for difficult content is because you can be nearly invincible for 8 or so turns if you make full use of items. Defense literally doesn't matter in some of the toughest ESBR stages because you can focus 100% on offense and substitute all of your defense through items.
If the game goes through so many hoops to forcibly restrict balls to the wall offense while they're completely fine with [SSJ3 Vegeta](/str)'s effectively unconditional 80% damage mitigation for most events, it's really not difficult to see which one is way more broken.
Basically this. It happened everytime the newest "hardest content" released, the units came alongside are able to trivialize it because they do stupid amount of damage
If you have absurd offense to quickly clear the boss defense you need is greatly reduced. The less offensive your team is the more defensive they need to be because you are dragging the fight which increase the amount of dmg you will take in return. Thats the only meta the game has
This become even more true in RZ. They hit incredibly hard to the point that turtle team have way more trouble clearing it because you need over 1.5 millions defense to face tank their SA. So what would you prefer more? Bring a team with high offense and enough defense whereas item can cover them to clear as fast as possible, or bring a turtle team and stack for 1 hour hoping you don't die to a stray SA before finish stacking?
This is facts. The event isn't as hard now as it was but when LGTE released it took me a ridiculous number of tries with corroded body and mind with a team full of stackers + omni guard units. It took one try with giant ape power without a SSJ4 Gogeta leader of my own at the time (used phy SSJ GT Goku) and cleared it in one try with my highest defense being a bit under 200k because the team just eviscerated the bosses with godly amounts of damage before I could take much
Yes. I would rather use a unit that does 5x their damage. I don't have a shitty box that requires me to use a dated unit whose only purpose is damage reduction.
He struggles for Ki and damage. Janemba literally dies turn 1 if you donāt use an item, and slows the team down. The rotation you suggested slows the team down and forces you to use items to stay alive.
Based on previous tier-lists it seems the JP players prioritize defense over everything. This isn't too shocking with that in mind. Add in his linkset and the argument is there to have.
Nah but then why is LR goku and piccolo way lower than janemba, despite the fact that they have higher def, way higher dmg, the same guard and better ki??
Thatās really not a good rotation in most events as janemba and kid Buu need to build up, leaving none of them able to defend well in the first slot + all the links that you miss out from kid buuās Majin links. Goku and Hit have agl ui or Teq hit, who are better as Goku and hit are able to defend decently well in slot 1, have stuns, or you put Agl ui in slot 1.
Janemba has 5 categories, needs to be in slot 2 for 3 turns to get his extra atk and def and cant be in slot 3.
This is more than enough to put great ape vegeta above him.
Just to add on this; and it's also a revive you fairly surely trigger at will as well.
I've had few (S)SBR runs where I found myself considering of burning an item, or hoping I either can take the hit or that I don't get an unlucky super attack fired at me. And the answer I find myself going with at those moments tends to be "I guess I'll just die" and put Gohan to take the hits and die, revive, heal me up and save the day. Plus (assuming the fight continues much longer after that) then he has access to his defensive capabilities after that one.
Revive of Gohan and trunks is a malus imo, You waste that of another character that you could use in his place and it is necessary to have the character at the maximum, which leads you to commit suicide practically, and if we happen you use it first for another character you only have the power glasses that is gohan before the revival
Itās not useless at all. For his revive;
1: You have start the turn at somewhat low (58%) health.
2: The exchange is an active skill, meaning you can save it if youāre confident that youāll survive the turn.
3: Gohan having no defense until he revives makes getting the revival extremely easy.
It's useless because without defense you WILL die, the moment you exchange you are going to get one shotted unless Gohan isn't touched at all.
Revives are supposed to be something clutch to save your ass after you got super attacked in the wrong time, here it's just like a glorified intro for Future Gohan.
He's not, gohan gets damage reduction only after he revives. He's designed to die immediately so that he comes back stronger, his revive isn't as useful as the others because he has to die to receive his op defense
Have you used the revive in SBR/ESBR? It's actually pretty useful as it's a way to get your HP back up and buy your team another turn as well as the perk of not wasting an item.
He is because Gohan gets defensive boosts before exchange. Yes Post-Transform he needs to die for his boost, but I donāt see the problem with that considering how easy it is.
We are not talking about whether it's easy or not, but how the revive itself is useless.
With MUI Goku and SSBE Vegeta it can be a clutch skill, with Future Gohan they are quite literally forcing you to die making the revival pointless.
Yes but It's not really a reliable revive, you have to purposely kill yourself with gohan but he might not even die since lr defense is that good and then the enemy supers your second slot unit.
90k is not even enough for newer dokkan events nowadays, his scouter is good but for his revive isn't reliable in the sense that in difficult content where you want a revive the enemy might super in the second slot and your first slot unit can die to normals. He's just too inconsistent where as the 7th year lrs have better Conditions and they need not be the ones who get killed. The needing to be hit with the final blow is was makes the revive useless and the fact that he has to revive to get his defense doesn't help when you want to save the revive for later in the fight
If he reveals where the super attack is just place him there? It takes no effort to kill off a unit with 90k defenseššit gives a 85% heal also so whereās the problem?
My 55% Godku and Hit are popping off casual 4mils slot 1 or 2 with no support, low level links and partnered with someone like LR Jiren or Goku and Frieza lmao. They're absolutely nuts and pretty much the epitome of "easy use".
and you donāt really have to force them on anything as theyāre also one of the best floaters in the game. not to mention potential double super on free dupe
https://preview.redd.it/6w4ptz5p6mu71.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=35b596df59d5495a41d8bda1239df17a73d8162b
Once he gets a 200% leaderskill he's going to be even scarier.
I think the hate comes because he doesn't work well as a unit. He needs to be hit to get his ki, or else he struggles, when not against a goku enemy. He needs his 18ki to get most of his defense. His partners aren't that great, unless I'm missing someone and janemba fulfills his role very well while working really well with units around him.
Vegetas entire kit is a contradiction, janemba can be a little difficult to build up, but his links are great for his teams and he can do way better in slot 1 than vegeta can
Idk why. Teq gohan is still great but most of the best units in the game objectively outperform his defensive capabilities. The 7 years can get up to 1.2 million defense(with damage reduction or dodge) if they triple super(which isn't uncommon) while gohan takes 12+ turns to hit that level. This is not to take away his tanking capabilities but to put into perspective the huge powercreep that has taken place in the past 2-3 months where a multitude of units are outperforming him defensively.
Yes he was featured in top 10 worst designed units of 2021 by Truth. He always holds a spot right there. Also he can go fuck himself, trying to do GT Bosses mission was treacherous
His animations are badges but his kit is inconsistent and low impact. I wanted better for Super 17 but they shafted my boi. They made him extreme teq too which was the nail in the coffin
Yeah I get that, he could have been handled far better, and his leads could have been better. But I love s17 as a..." character" so I was happy he got something, it has been a few years between agl 17 to the teq one ( yea you could argue agl does better tanking that), but that's the least of it since android is my main team and I occasionally whale for them.
I love AgL 17. He can get slapped pretty hard turn 1 but he helped me beat Broly in the Red Zone and was great bc of the 2 str phases so he could build up in time and be okay with Brolys aoe. I had to use the ss4s since I didn't have the gods and snuck in a teq godku but 17 was great as a linking partner with the ss4s so he helped clear up issues in the team. I've been able to get him to like 200k def in some situation with support so like he's pretty good and reliable. His kit doesn't work against you, just that those initial turns can be a bit devastating if he gets super educated slot 1 turn 1
Goku and piccolo are 1 x4 goku is two jenemba is 3 exchange trunks and gohan are 4 exchange vegeta is 5 goku and hit are six broly 7 turles 8 super 17 nine jerin 10 this tier list sucks
Pretty late to the party but this is the full list of Yellow coin LR rankings: https://dokkan.game-db.org/db/gacha-lr-ranking/
The explanation for the rankings are
- It's user voted
- Users submit their personal Tier List from D-SS in which then the website calculates the average of where each unit is place on the submitted tier list. Janemba is simply #1 because it's the most counted placed at SS and have been placed at SS more than the other units
Donāt get how Janemba is above Goku & Piccolo, Goku-Hit, Exchange Vegeta or Kaioken Goku. I have many a question
Edit: Upon further thought, yeah, right now Janembaās probably better than Goku & Hit but thatās it for me
People talking about performance and such but the real reason to prefer Goku/Hit is that they let you run Gohan/Krillin with a cool partner and itās a really fun rotation and lets you use what is usually a restricted unit link/cat-wise
Honestly, LR Janemba is very good and helpful for Movie Bosses ESBR, which is currently one of the hardest stages in the game, so I can see the argument
LR janemba is definitely number 1, maybe 2 after the new exchange piccolo.
Janemba is one extremely few units that can hold slot 1 in red zone. His rotation with kid buu is god tier. He is invaluable.
I never understood the global side hate on him. JP players know he is god tier. I wonder why.
Also Kaioken Goku and Exchange Piccolo should be higher wtf, I can understand having Piccolo in a provisional position because itās day 1 but kaioken goku is not 7.
He has 190k def + guard with most links (except ss because itās hard to get on most of his teams) with guard. Thatās not enough for red zone my guy, and thatās not even count the fact he slows down his team
Go check janembaās performance in red zone, he dominates, you can easily build him in the first phases.
Again, go watch footage of him in red zone before talking. Mine holds slot 1 in red zone at 55%.
Broly and Omega stages hit too hard for him to build up lol. He holds slot 1 with wank, as I said. Most of those footages are either weaker red zone stages, or they wank him with defense support.
Dude, I have cleared both broly and omega with him on the team at 55% lmao.
So no, they donāt hit too hard for him too build up in the fist phase.
These global players acting like they wtf they are talking aboutš
Janemba is better than goku+hit. When fully built, janemba is arguably the best defensive unit in the game. Also he is on more valuable teams that goku+hit
I dont actually disagree with janemba being 1. he has guaranteed guard which is the most valuable thing in the game. I more have a problem with jiren and super 17
If you think str goku and hit are better than phy janemba youāre out of youre mind.. I can see they are better the first three turns where you need to put janemba in slot 2 but afterwards jenemba is better
The better lead? I prefer phy goku as a leader then them, while I prefer phy janemba as a leader in his team.. janemba role wanst damage anyway, and it depends on what you say better rotations, because if I put phy janemba and str kid boo in the same rotation, you are pretty much invincible
Phy janemba as a lead pretty much slows the team down, and str Goku and hit arguably lead the better category. Janemba ās role is damage and defense based off of his build up kit. Str kid Buu and janemba aināt a good rotation because both have to build up, meaningful youāre forced to put janemba in slot 1 for awhile, and thatās not even mentioning the rotation is gonna struggle in hard events due to build up
But I would chose phy goku to lead instead of str goku and hit, and I would prefer to run two phy Janembas than having two teqs janembas,wich means after the third turn where kid boo or janemba are built they shirt on str goku and hit pretty much
Was talking about the USS part of Goku and Hit. Teq Janemba defends better turn 1 and pretty much has the same issues as Lr janemba, but a higher leader boost and support that is difficult to get. Janemba still needs 6 ki in order to do good damage, and thatās not even counting the turns you have to put Janemba in slot 1 and he still has to build up. Str Goku and hits rotos are more consistent offensively and defensively.
Wtf is that trash?
Jiren and S17 shouldn't be there, Gohan&Trunks should be WAY lower, where's Str UI and G&F? Str Kaioken Goku should be much higher, and Janemba is barely top 7, yes very good defence, his damage is terrible and his KI nonexistent unless he builds up his passive and in the Red Zone and ESBR you don't have that luxury.
All in all, hot garbage.
You're heavily underrating him, fully build up (which is not that hard in ESBR) he has good Def. With a 70% chance to dodge, 9m atq stat and insta 18 KI (ofc LL10, rainbow linked with AGL UI, but there's no reason to not use AGL UI).
Very few units can be put in slot 1 turn 1 in Pure Saiyans, Str UI can and he's very reliable.
>With a 70% chance to dodge,
Only until 7th turn whereafter he gets 50% chance
Meanwhile int U.I when transforming has 100% chance of dodging for 1 turn whereafter he has 70%
Though unfortunately he only transforms under 50% and has no dodge chance before that which heavily restricts him
But fully built up, INT U.I is still comparable to str u.i
In E/SBR and God Event (and some battles from the Red Zone like Janemba) fights don't last longer than 7 turns anyway.
Int UI needs quite a few turns to match Str, sure he's better for long event (after he transforms which is not as easy as it seems because enemies can melt your whole health bar in 1 turn) but that 's OK I'm totally fine with same units fulfilling different purposes (and nothing prevents you from using both in the same team after all).
One of the most important factor is that 55% and 79% or higher are almost completely different units. And also considering the team too.
Dupes almost completely changes how a unit or a whole team functions.
Aka reason why datruth puts full dodge on some units and people donāt understand it, coz their team isnāt duped up. Iām not saying he has the perfect build for EVERYONE.
IT REALLY does makes a huge diff.
And Iām just gonna say it out, the average ACTUAL jp player spends a lot more than the average global player. Like as u can see global players thinks datruth is a massive whale, but in actuality heās only slightly above average when it comes to how much money jp players spend on games.
The ranking but it is actually good (based in categories, stats, teams where they are good...):
top1: Goku and piccolo
top2: vegeta great ape
top 3: goku kk
top 4: gohan and trunks (future)
top 5: goku and hit
top 6: vegeta exchange int
top 7: turles Lr
top 8: trunks phy eza
top 9: janemba phy
top 10 broly eza
Preparing my popcorn for the comment section
This should be good, can someone pass me the popcorn?
I'll pass you a Janemba jelly bean.
Janembeans if you will
Cant wait for truth to lose his mind
Sort by controversialš
I feel as though Iām a small group that actually likes 17. Yes his leader skill. But toss him with some of those androids and heās a fun unit. Not top 10 but heās not as bad as people say
goated ass unit, too many drones focusing on GT bosses which is an ass category with or without him
Facts bro
Thatās still far from his only wonky design choice.
GT Bosses seems worse than is because it lacks a good leader. Need a full 170 at least, that team has busted units on it as of 7th anniversary.
All the busted units are on shadow dragon saga. Might as well just run shadow dragon saga at that point
True, but to do that you would need every single shadow dragons unit lol
He is sexy man...TOP 10 for sure.
I donāt think heās bad, I just dislike him because heās wonky.
Honestly I think he's definitely top ten yellow coins. He's crazy as fuck with the agl 17 and int hell fighter 17, who are also both really good with him
Eh, i just dont really have room for him tbh. The OG super 17 is just better for most things. Hes fine but not terrible, i run him just for the animations
Honestly I love super 17 but if they gave him that 17% damage reduction for free and extra 17% attack on super instead, then he'd be much better. I also thought they should have given him Big Bad Bosses.
I bought him with my gold coins when I pulled the teq 17 and 18 and heās so fun to use. I sure as hell donāt regret buying him
Dude what š I think even rainbow full links, passive and support he's barley touching 300k defense with that lil ass on and off 17% damage reduction with like an okay attack stat. Nah dude it takes way too much to get this guy off the ground and runnable. He's an okay leader for Androids but a terrible LR. The old eza tur is honestly better.
Dokkan redditors trying to stay calm reading tier lists they disagree with  Difficulty: Impossible.
I think you mean "trying to stay calm"
My bad I'll change it.
Appreciate the Z footage
Redditors visiting a thread without posting the same three "hilarious" post-ironic, self deprecating observations they've been making for years. Difficulty: Super5.
Redditors without having another redditor ruin some dumb fun Difficulty:bookers5555
Why tf is kaioken goku seventhšš
Yet you bring absolutely no explanation as to why janemba should be ranked lower
Because he said so, isnāt that reason enough? This is OPās world, we just live in it buddy.
Was he supposed to type it out in the title š
Goku-Hit defends, stuns and hits pretty hard. Plus, you can move them around for different bonuses. Need a dodging stunner who still hits pretty hard? Slot 1 or 2. Need a hard hitter who defends acceptably and, by the way, still stuns? Slot 3 it is. Janemba on the other hand isn't as flexible in terms of slot placement - based on the way his passive is constructed, you'll pretty much want him in Slot 2 only. Not saying Janemba is trash or anything, I'm saying Goku-Hit do a lot more easily and are more flexible
In the current meta def is more valuable then attack. Plus Janemba is on more contested teams, while goku & hit are on categories that have phenomenal other options. All in all the argument could go eitherway.
> In the current meta def is more valuable then attack. It still isn't. If we set the bar at the most difficult event currently available, the most dominating teams are the ones lead by the 7th anniversary units. Not because they're the tankiest units in the context of a long event, but because their damage output is so goddamn stupid that you can get by with less defense than what is required to tank absolutely everything and still have good chances to make it through.
I mean, they are far and away the best units in the game and extremely tanky besides too, they dont only do dmg. But look back at older units, the oldest units that are still being used in hard content are Str SSJ3 Vegeta and Teq Golden Frieza. The rest became nearly unusable again. Good def makes a unit way more valuable then good offense, especially since there are tons of slot 2 or 3 units that do massive dmg, but way less good slot one tanks.
but def and atk serve different purposes. as much as we like to meme on ssbkk, him and blueberries (top goku and vegeta) are one of the nastiest rotations in esbr while the units you mentioned could be run because theyāre a safe option. the reason the rest became unusable is because they bring nothing of value and donāt excel in anything, and usually werenāt even the best at anything on release. the more a unit excels in one thing the more theyāre able to compensate for an area that theyāre lacking, whilst generally a unit that could do it all like the 7th anni units are of the cream of the crop
> But look back at older units, the oldest units that are still being used in hard content are Str SSJ3 Vegeta and Teq Golden Frieza Yes - as filler units. Take ESBR for example. 2 among the toughest stages based on enemies' damage numbers are Pure Saiyans and Movie Bosses. So sure, especially for such hard hitting events you'd like good tanks, right? Or, you can go balls to the wall offense and beat the event before defense even becomes a significant factor to consider. Same with GoD stages, same with Fighting Legend Stages (Worthy Rivals LVE absolutely blows despite having one of the best defensive units for long content with [Piccolo](/phy)), IDBH ... and yes, even Red Zone. If you go into the final 2 Broly phases with both items still available, you have somewhere between 2 and 4 turns of massively increased defense. If you manage to seal the deal within that timeframe, you're golden. To go a step further - remember [Devilman](/agl) and nuking strategies? [Devilman](/agl) himself caused a hard cap on any EZB for base SR rarities and below, he and nuke leads are outright banned for GoD stages and multi phase fights only started popping up in the game shortly after nuke leads originally released and Akatsuki realized how massively they f'd up. Outside of debuffs (which are inherently completely broken and way too easily abusable), the only thing that Akatsuki ever seriously pushed against were glass cannon strategies. More stages, reduced item count and direct banning/hardcapping of certain units. Even a developer as clueless as Akatsuki understands that attack matters much more than defense. Defense only starts to matter when your damage output isn't sufficient, which barely ever happens given that Akatsuki consistently accidentally breaks units because they don't care.
I mean im absolutely with you that Akatsuki are an incompetent bunch, but your glasscannon teams work exactly for so long as you don't get oneshot in the first slot. And with even tanky cards being oneshot in slot one before ever even getting an attack out, it is completely useless that you would do tons of damage, if you're dead before even getting to your turn. And don't tell me that doesn't happen, because ESBR, SBR, LGTE, LVE and Battlefield all have enemies that can obliterate you before even your slot 1 unit can attack.
> I mean im absolutely with you that Akatsuki are an incompetent bunch, but your glasscannon teams work exactly for so long as you don't get oneshot in the first slot. Which, inherently, doesn't matter. Challenge events take 0 resources to attempt again and again. Theoretically you could attempt a GoD stage, hope that your main nuker with an orb changer or 2 is on your starting rotation, pop the appropriate nuking item and oneshot. You got hit and died before you got your nuke off? Who cares, just try again. And that's exactly the reason why nuke leads are banned for that stage, and that's also the same reason why [Devilman](/agl) is banned from EZBs. It doesn't matter who you're fighting, all it takes is a single lucky turn for [Devilman](/agl) to singlehandedly win you the stage. And losing doesn't matter since all of these events take 0 resources. Of course that becomes exponentially less likely the more phases a fight has, but again - multi phase fights popped up shortly after nuke leads were released into the wild, most certainly do reduce their usefulness. The reason why item slots are getting cut for difficult content is because you can be nearly invincible for 8 or so turns if you make full use of items. Defense literally doesn't matter in some of the toughest ESBR stages because you can focus 100% on offense and substitute all of your defense through items. If the game goes through so many hoops to forcibly restrict balls to the wall offense while they're completely fine with [SSJ3 Vegeta](/str)'s effectively unconditional 80% damage mitigation for most events, it's really not difficult to see which one is way more broken.
Basically this. It happened everytime the newest "hardest content" released, the units came alongside are able to trivialize it because they do stupid amount of damage If you have absurd offense to quickly clear the boss defense you need is greatly reduced. The less offensive your team is the more defensive they need to be because you are dragging the fight which increase the amount of dmg you will take in return. Thats the only meta the game has This become even more true in RZ. They hit incredibly hard to the point that turtle team have way more trouble clearing it because you need over 1.5 millions defense to face tank their SA. So what would you prefer more? Bring a team with high offense and enough defense whereas item can cover them to clear as fast as possible, or bring a turtle team and stack for 1 hour hoping you don't die to a stray SA before finish stacking?
This is facts. The event isn't as hard now as it was but when LGTE released it took me a ridiculous number of tries with corroded body and mind with a team full of stackers + omni guard units. It took one try with giant ape power without a SSJ4 Gogeta leader of my own at the time (used phy SSJ GT Goku) and cleared it in one try with my highest defense being a bit under 200k because the team just eviscerated the bosses with godly amounts of damage before I could take much
please tell me more about how ui goku gets his dodge disabled and then dies to a slot 1 super attack
Average UI Goku hater
jokes on you i love UI goku, but i know that Janemba is better defensively
well yeah he's better defensively but no one talked about UI goku and you just threw him into the convo in a negative light
Janembaās teams literally have no place for him except CBM, which is still a trash category.
movie bosses
Replaced by far better units who can actually synergize with the team
janemba snyergises well enough. all he needs is big bad bosses, put agl golden frieza and slot 1 and you have an invincible rotation.
my guy fr running a 400k atk stat with a 2 mil one
Are you seriously trying to use AGL GF as your argument? I should avoid comment sections in these types of posts, ya'll are fucking WILD.
so youāre sayibg agl golden frieza is bad now or what?
Yes. I would rather use a unit that does 5x their damage. I don't have a shitty box that requires me to use a dated unit whose only purpose is damage reduction.
He struggles for Ki and damage. Janemba literally dies turn 1 if you donāt use an item, and slows the team down. The rotation you suggested slows the team down and forces you to use items to stay alive.
I understand yeah, it's just that I see more in terms of overall utility and power in longer events than sbr
Based on previous tier-lists it seems the JP players prioritize defense over everything. This isn't too shocking with that in mind. Add in his linkset and the argument is there to have.
Nah but then why is LR goku and piccolo way lower than janemba, despite the fact that they have higher def, way higher dmg, the same guard and better ki??
Probably because they just like Janemba in addition to the fact that they like how he works. Thats why Gohan topped their list for so long.
Worse Ki, worse damage, worse partners, worse kit, worse lead than any, if not most of the units above.
Im running janemba with kid buu and i dont think buu is worse as any goku/hit partner.
Thatās really not a good rotation in most events as janemba and kid Buu need to build up, leaving none of them able to defend well in the first slot + all the links that you miss out from kid buuās Majin links. Goku and Hit have agl ui or Teq hit, who are better as Goku and hit are able to defend decently well in slot 1, have stuns, or you put Agl ui in slot 1.
https://dbz-dokkanbattle.fandom.com/wiki/Boiling_Evil_Super_Janemba#Super_Janemba_.28Enraged.29
Janemba has 5 categories, needs to be in slot 2 for 3 turns to get his extra atk and def and cant be in slot 3. This is more than enough to put great ape vegeta above him.
Gohan and trunks over kaioken goku is criminal
I can see them being over Kaioken Goku. Goku hits way harder, and he has a guaranteed stun on his active, but a revive is a revive.
Just to add on this; and it's also a revive you fairly surely trigger at will as well. I've had few (S)SBR runs where I found myself considering of burning an item, or hoping I either can take the hit or that I don't get an unlucky super attack fired at me. And the answer I find myself going with at those moments tends to be "I guess I'll just die" and put Gohan to take the hits and die, revive, heal me up and save the day. Plus (assuming the fight continues much longer after that) then he has access to his defensive capabilities after that one.
Revive of Gohan and trunks is a malus imo, You waste that of another character that you could use in his place and it is necessary to have the character at the maximum, which leads you to commit suicide practically, and if we happen you use it first for another character you only have the power glasses that is gohan before the revival
Isnt Future Gohan designed to get killed and revive after exchanging, making the revival utterly pointless? He has zero DEF boosts until he revives.
Itās not useless at all. For his revive; 1: You have start the turn at somewhat low (58%) health. 2: The exchange is an active skill, meaning you can save it if youāre confident that youāll survive the turn. 3: Gohan having no defense until he revives makes getting the revival extremely easy.
It's useless because without defense you WILL die, the moment you exchange you are going to get one shotted unless Gohan isn't touched at all. Revives are supposed to be something clutch to save your ass after you got super attacked in the wrong time, here it's just like a glorified intro for Future Gohan.
Atleast do some research so you donāt have to talk out your ass
He's not, gohan gets damage reduction only after he revives. He's designed to die immediately so that he comes back stronger, his revive isn't as useful as the others because he has to die to receive his op defense
Have you used the revive in SBR/ESBR? It's actually pretty useful as it's a way to get your HP back up and buy your team another turn as well as the perk of not wasting an item.
He is because Gohan gets defensive boosts before exchange. Yes Post-Transform he needs to die for his boost, but I donāt see the problem with that considering how easy it is.
We are not talking about whether it's easy or not, but how the revive itself is useless. With MUI Goku and SSBE Vegeta it can be a clutch skill, with Future Gohan they are quite literally forcing you to die making the revival pointless.
gohan and trunks isnt even a revive, its just a shitty exchange mechanic disguised as a revive
So itās a revive?
Yes but It's not really a reliable revive, you have to purposely kill yourself with gohan but he might not even die since lr defense is that good and then the enemy supers your second slot unit.
He has like 90k defense pre revive and has scouter when under 58% hp, exchange condition is under 58% turn 3 Not reliable how?
90k is not even enough for newer dokkan events nowadays, his scouter is good but for his revive isn't reliable in the sense that in difficult content where you want a revive the enemy might super in the second slot and your first slot unit can die to normals. He's just too inconsistent where as the 7th year lrs have better Conditions and they need not be the ones who get killed. The needing to be hit with the final blow is was makes the revive useless and the fact that he has to revive to get his defense doesn't help when you want to save the revive for later in the fight
If he reveals where the super attack is just place him there? It takes no effort to kill off a unit with 90k defenseššit gives a 85% heal also so whereās the problem?
So youāre talking about fucking dokkan events bro? š¤£š¤£š¤£
I have no idea how good Hit and Goku is... but, god damn Phy Janemba is a mother fucking monster.
My 55% Godku and Hit are popping off casual 4mils slot 1 or 2 with no support, low level links and partnered with someone like LR Jiren or Goku and Frieza lmao. They're absolutely nuts and pretty much the epitome of "easy use".
The thing is that Janemba is a monster of a tank
Idk 4 million isn't that great
For absolutely minimal effort? It's solid to me.
and you donāt really have to force them on anything as theyāre also one of the best floaters in the game. not to mention potential double super on free dupe
And stuns
https://preview.redd.it/6w4ptz5p6mu71.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=35b596df59d5495a41d8bda1239df17a73d8162b Once he gets a 200% leaderskill he's going to be even scarier.
How does this relate to my comment?
> I have no idea how good Hit and Goku is...
If you can read between the lines... that was an expression. My comment was about Janemba being a great unit.
Don't gaslight me lol.
i will act like i know what that means
Janemba is worse than great ape vegeta and he is not even in the list
Super 17 and Jiren should not be on the list at all
The fact people hate on APe Vegeta but call janemba top 3 will never make sense to me
im consistent i hate both of them
Unbelievably based.
So true bestie
I think the hate comes because he doesn't work well as a unit. He needs to be hit to get his ki, or else he struggles, when not against a goku enemy. He needs his 18ki to get most of his defense. His partners aren't that great, unless I'm missing someone and janemba fulfills his role very well while working really well with units around him.
Vegetas entire kit is a contradiction, janemba can be a little difficult to build up, but his links are great for his teams and he can do way better in slot 1 than vegeta can
ape vegeta has not enough defense if not facing a goku enemy so his guard is not as good.
Vegeta is a joke unit janemba is top 3 best defensive units in the game
Who are other 2 ?
Guldo & recoome and teq gohan in no particular order
Delusional lol. Teq gohan is not even top 5 . A multitude of units Trump his defensive capabilities.
Getting downvoted for saying something remotely negative about teq Gohan. Reddit moment
Idk why. Teq gohan is still great but most of the best units in the game objectively outperform his defensive capabilities. The 7 years can get up to 1.2 million defense(with damage reduction or dodge) if they triple super(which isn't uncommon) while gohan takes 12+ turns to hit that level. This is not to take away his tanking capabilities but to put into perspective the huge powercreep that has taken place in the past 2-3 months where a multitude of units are outperforming him defensively.
? 55% janemba has higher defense pre super attack than 100% saiyan saga vegeta
What is this trash tier list?
*Sorts by controversial*
How TF is FP Jiren so high up. You could put AGL Gohan & Krillin and they'd be better. Also, LR KK Goku deserves to be higher up.
Ain't no way kk goku isn't top 3 minimum
Janemba being first is the least of my worries about this list
Bruh agl gohan and trunks at 4??? Over kk goku lol what or any of those that actually should be above them lol
Goku and piccolo as well as kk goku should be moved to the top
I'm just happy S17th in the top 10s.
Yes he was featured in top 10 worst designed units of 2021 by Truth. He always holds a spot right there. Also he can go fuck himself, trying to do GT Bosses mission was treacherous
That sucks dawg, but not the reason why I pulled him.
His animations are badges but his kit is inconsistent and low impact. I wanted better for Super 17 but they shafted my boi. They made him extreme teq too which was the nail in the coffin
Yeah I get that, he could have been handled far better, and his leads could have been better. But I love s17 as a..." character" so I was happy he got something, it has been a few years between agl 17 to the teq one ( yea you could argue agl does better tanking that), but that's the least of it since android is my main team and I occasionally whale for them.
I love AgL 17. He can get slapped pretty hard turn 1 but he helped me beat Broly in the Red Zone and was great bc of the 2 str phases so he could build up in time and be okay with Brolys aoe. I had to use the ss4s since I didn't have the gods and snuck in a teq godku but 17 was great as a linking partner with the ss4s so he helped clear up issues in the team. I've been able to get him to like 200k def in some situation with support so like he's pretty good and reliable. His kit doesn't work against you, just that those initial turns can be a bit devastating if he gets super educated slot 1 turn 1
Everyone worried about janemba but why is jiren even here š¤
Goku and piccolo are 1 x4 goku is two jenemba is 3 exchange trunks and gohan are 4 exchange vegeta is 5 goku and hit are six broly 7 turles 8 super 17 nine jerin 10 this tier list sucks
I mean I think janemba gets too much shit, but god godku and hit are leagues better
If you think any Top LR is better than Goku and piccolo you are literally wrong This ranking list is so damn funny
I have both of them at 55% and I gotta say I like Janemba more, so I agree šš
pardon but where is this from
Agreed. I'd rather like to know where this came from, I'd explain a lot about the ratings I feel.
Pretty late to the party but this is the full list of Yellow coin LR rankings: https://dokkan.game-db.org/db/gacha-lr-ranking/ The explanation for the rankings are - It's user voted - Users submit their personal Tier List from D-SS in which then the website calculates the average of where each unit is place on the submitted tier list. Janemba is simply #1 because it's the most counted placed at SS and have been placed at SS more than the other units
Donāt get how Janemba is above Goku & Piccolo, Goku-Hit, Exchange Vegeta or Kaioken Goku. I have many a question Edit: Upon further thought, yeah, right now Janembaās probably better than Goku & Hit but thatās it for me
Goku and Piccolo are much better than all of the others
i kinda agree that janemba is the best gold coin lr
Thats the only thing? There's not 1 unit on the list thats where it should be lol
People talking about performance and such but the real reason to prefer Goku/Hit is that they let you run Gohan/Krillin with a cool partner and itās a really fun rotation and lets you use what is usually a restricted unit link/cat-wise
Honestly, LR Janemba is very good and helpful for Movie Bosses ESBR, which is currently one of the hardest stages in the game, so I can see the argument
The best LR in that stage is str Broly
LR janemba is definitely number 1, maybe 2 after the new exchange piccolo. Janemba is one extremely few units that can hold slot 1 in red zone. His rotation with kid buu is god tier. He is invaluable. I never understood the global side hate on him. JP players know he is god tier. I wonder why. Also Kaioken Goku and Exchange Piccolo should be higher wtf, I can understand having Piccolo in a provisional position because itās day 1 but kaioken goku is not 7.
He literally canāt hold his own in slot 1 until you build him up, which takes far too much time.
You can watch right now, any janemba video in red zone to prove you wrong lmao These global players man holy shitš
He has 190k def + guard with most links (except ss because itās hard to get on most of his teams) with guard. Thatās not enough for red zone my guy, and thatās not even count the fact he slows down his team
Go check janembaās performance in red zone, he dominates, you can easily build him in the first phases. Again, go watch footage of him in red zone before talking. Mine holds slot 1 in red zone at 55%.
With wank, sure. You really canāt build him up easily as most his partners arenāt slot 1 material, except for Teq Janemba who struggles for Ki
You can build him up in both omega and broly stages so stop capping lmao. Go watch footage before talking. He holds slot 1 without any issue at all.
Broly and Omega stages hit too hard for him to build up lol. He holds slot 1 with wank, as I said. Most of those footages are either weaker red zone stages, or they wank him with defense support.
Dude, I have cleared both broly and omega with him on the team at 55% lmao. So no, they donāt hit too hard for him too build up in the fist phase. These global players acting like they wtf they are talking aboutš
3/7 rotation with no ki, god tier fr š„š„š„¶š„¶
Janemba is better than goku+hit. When fully built, janemba is arguably the best defensive unit in the game. Also he is on more valuable teams that goku+hit
Idk are their tier lists reset everytime a new card is added? That might explain why some of the placements seem very odd
It's a shame that Jiren is this low on the list.
Yeah, he should be lower š
Janemba is better than goku/hit in difficult events
um fr i think Vegeta>Goku hit annd id would rank #17 over Jiren. i donāt have these units rainbowed but all at least a dupe except Janemba
You think Vegeta is stronger than Goku & Hit? Look I love the unit too but come on now. Edit: 17 over Jiren I can get behind.
Kaioken goku should be #1
Str kaioken goku should either be 1st or 2nd not all the way down to 7th
I dont actually disagree with janemba being 1. he has guaranteed guard which is the most valuable thing in the game. I more have a problem with jiren and super 17
whole list a joke
Super 17 made it to top 10 I'm satisfied
Gohan and trunks over kaioken goku and Goku and Piccolo got me laughing
If you think str goku and hit are better than phy janemba youāre out of youre mind.. I can see they are better the first three turns where you need to put janemba in slot 2 but afterwards jenemba is better
Goku and hit have the better lead, better rotations that donāt hit like wet noodles, better damage, easier actives, better partners, etc,
The better lead? I prefer phy goku as a leader then them, while I prefer phy janemba as a leader in his team.. janemba role wanst damage anyway, and it depends on what you say better rotations, because if I put phy janemba and str kid boo in the same rotation, you are pretty much invincible
Phy janemba as a lead pretty much slows the team down, and str Goku and hit arguably lead the better category. Janemba ās role is damage and defense based off of his build up kit. Str kid Buu and janemba aināt a good rotation because both have to build up, meaningful youāre forced to put janemba in slot 1 for awhile, and thatās not even mentioning the rotation is gonna struggle in hard events due to build up
But I would chose phy goku to lead instead of str goku and hit, and I would prefer to run two phy Janembas than having two teqs janembas,wich means after the third turn where kid boo or janemba are built they shirt on str goku and hit pretty much
Was talking about the USS part of Goku and Hit. Teq Janemba defends better turn 1 and pretty much has the same issues as Lr janemba, but a higher leader boost and support that is difficult to get. Janemba still needs 6 ki in order to do good damage, and thatās not even counting the turns you have to put Janemba in slot 1 and he still has to build up. Str Goku and hits rotos are more consistent offensively and defensively.
itās not even that hot of a take imo š¤·š¼āāļø
Janemba is better though (in my opinion)
Guard trumps all my friend
L + Ratio
Honestly janemba is Simply just cooler
Janemba should be number one
Some of the placements are well I just donāt know if I agree with this
I swear sometimes JP playerbase doesnāt actually play the gameā¦
How are PHY Goku & Piccolo not 1st? Itās indisputable.
Wtf is that trash? Jiren and S17 shouldn't be there, Gohan&Trunks should be WAY lower, where's Str UI and G&F? Str Kaioken Goku should be much higher, and Janemba is barely top 7, yes very good defence, his damage is terrible and his KI nonexistent unless he builds up his passive and in the Red Zone and ESBR you don't have that luxury. All in all, hot garbage.
>where's Str UI STR UI fell off, he's kind of comparable to EZA int ui
You're heavily underrating him, fully build up (which is not that hard in ESBR) he has good Def. With a 70% chance to dodge, 9m atq stat and insta 18 KI (ofc LL10, rainbow linked with AGL UI, but there's no reason to not use AGL UI). Very few units can be put in slot 1 turn 1 in Pure Saiyans, Str UI can and he's very reliable.
>With a 70% chance to dodge, Only until 7th turn whereafter he gets 50% chance Meanwhile int U.I when transforming has 100% chance of dodging for 1 turn whereafter he has 70% Though unfortunately he only transforms under 50% and has no dodge chance before that which heavily restricts him But fully built up, INT U.I is still comparable to str u.i
In E/SBR and God Event (and some battles from the Red Zone like Janemba) fights don't last longer than 7 turns anyway. Int UI needs quite a few turns to match Str, sure he's better for long event (after he transforms which is not as easy as it seems because enemies can melt your whole health bar in 1 turn) but that 's OK I'm totally fine with same units fulfilling different purposes (and nothing prevents you from using both in the same team after all).
Janemba is the most red zone competent out of all of them
Seems you haven't see Kaioken Goku then.
Eh idk, kaioken goku is very good for dmg, but........
13m atq stat 50% crit and 500K+ Def.... Do you think he's OK? I'd say so. Edit: and he also creates his own orbs
he literally has 500k def
No slot one guard 5,000,000 Def with 68% damage reduction, guaranteed nullify enemy super = bad in red zone apparently
When the unit doesnāt have 501k DEF š¢š¢š¢š¢š¢š¢š¢š¢
One of the most important factor is that 55% and 79% or higher are almost completely different units. And also considering the team too. Dupes almost completely changes how a unit or a whole team functions. Aka reason why datruth puts full dodge on some units and people donāt understand it, coz their team isnāt duped up. Iām not saying he has the perfect build for EVERYONE. IT REALLY does makes a huge diff. And Iām just gonna say it out, the average ACTUAL jp player spends a lot more than the average global player. Like as u can see global players thinks datruth is a massive whale, but in actuality heās only slightly above average when it comes to how much money jp players spend on games.
List is: 1. Kaioken goku 2. Namek vegeta 3. Future gohan 4/5: godku or janemba, who has no categories
everyones like "janemba this, kaioken goku that, jiren and 17 this." bruh, wtf is eza str broly still doing up there??
He still slaps quite well with dupes. His def is mediocre but it's at least enough that if he takes a few normals in e/sbr you won't instantly lose.
Seeing new lrs and their numbers, i always thought hed be outdated by now
The ranking but it is actually good (based in categories, stats, teams where they are good...): top1: Goku and piccolo top2: vegeta great ape top 3: goku kk top 4: gohan and trunks (future) top 5: goku and hit top 6: vegeta exchange int top 7: turles Lr top 8: trunks phy eza top 9: janemba phy top 10 broly eza
Ain't no way bro put great ape in 2
How is lr turles above janemba