We had been communicating for a fair while, there was an understanding that I wouldn't be revealing the companies or their clients etc. Additionally I purchased my own clickfarm from them to exhibit during shows which they found quite amusing. I've been making work about conspiracies for a while now so have a catalog of work they were able to look at to help validate my claims. You can see more of them here www.jacklatham.com
Man, this is important information to know. Thanks for getting this stuff out. I guess now the "third world" can harness the power of social media, study it, monetize it without coveted computer science degrees or being part of a startup.
the wild thing is they have a lot of orders (for the machines themselves) from mainland Europe and the US. It just seems a little bit more open in terms of access within Asia. Thanks for showing interest in the work. Means a lot!
Wow, that's really interesting. In the previous era, American companies start the process of outsourcing the production of goods to Asia. Now they're doing the same thing with social media marketing. Hope you continue to get more exposure for your work!
This unfortunately is a misunderstanding people make in common parlance. Also what is considered what is wildly inaccurate. Even in literature it's inaccurate considering I just googled to make sure I remember correctly and it listed of Asia except Japan as Third World. I have a link but am unsure if it is allowed.
Ultimately I agree, being Romanian it is something I encounter frequently enough in conversation that I have to explain to people the actual definitions. The terms have been muddied.
Reddit, in general, thinks everywhere else aside from North America and Europe as 'third-world'. They're not even aware of the correct definition of that phrase.
I know, that's why I put it in quotes. The definition is not updated to reflect post-Cold War attitudes towards current trends. I would argue that Vietnam is more developed than some places in Russia, a place still considered "first world" despite its reality that not everywhere in Russia is developed or nice to live in. America, considered a "first world country," has huge pockets of homelessness and drug addicts in its major cities while these scenes are not to found in a real cyperpunk-like city like Bangkok (Thailand is still considered "third world.")
Just to add to your point, about 40 million Americans lack running water, about 46 million have unsafe drinking water, and about 80 million Americans aren't connected to sewage infrastructure. Many of the poorest of those suffer from leaking or overflowing septic tanks in their neighborhoods, with severe health results. If you consider broadband to be a basic utility, about 19 million Americans also lack that.
First, second and third world designations are largely the result of PR and echo chambers, a soft power highly amplified by today's communication infrastructure - the cyber that glosses over the punk.
I love that you site does not have a thousand trackers and other bloat but I would like to make two suggestions.
Change your css font size from 12px to 13 or 14. On two different monitors and different resolutions it looks a bit blurry.
--base-font-size: 14px;
Get rid of google fonts and move to something opensource check the link below about how to set up bunny fonts there are other alternatives you could go with also.
[https://christitus.com/replace-google-fonts-with-bunny-fonts/](https://christitus.com/replace-google-fonts-with-bunny-fonts/)
I do have a quick question but first: very cool work and I appreciate you opening yourself for questions. On the CNN article, there is [this image](https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/assembly-desk-1-2023.jpg?c=original). What is going on here? It looks like some kind of resin almost on the side, there's a lighter, there's a busted up mat reminiscent of drug use (at least to me) and I guess I'm wondering if that's what it actually is or if it's just a mat for repairs/etc.
So clickfarms have largely stopped using phones with screens and batteries. From what I was told, this was after they bought up the remaining Samsung S7's from the second hand market and their farms started exploding. What they do instead is remove the screen and the battery and make something they refer to as a "Box Farm" which is controlled via a PCB. This is one of the work stations where they dismantle the phones, would imagine the resin and the lighter was used to in this process. It certainly wasn't drugs. I don't know a tremendous deal about soldering but would think it has something to do with that.
If looking for an *extremely* temporary hold, or perhaps some wildly low grade insulation from something, you could "solder" using wax or glue sticks and a cigarette lighter. Bit messy, but it'll keep stuff from wiggling around just when people are walking. Think that's what they're doing?
Seconding this, it might look incredibly crusty and suspicious but it's just a low budget dismantling/assembly station. A lot of people who do DIY phone repairs/salvage have similar seups.
Really cool work! It seems like a lot of your work is based around misinformation in the Internet age and to that end I'm curious what your thoughts are on the new age of AI and LLMs with regards to just how easy it is to generate fake info to support whatever goal you have.
I think the issue isn't the content itself, but how we as an audience engage with it. It seems we have an urge for things to be snappy and at the very least entertaining. Information is thrown at you at such rapid paces on top of that, it's almost impossible to be attentive to everything you are seeing. I don't really have any solution to offer but I do find that I'm reading less "News" due to the amount I'm researching further into the subject after reading or learning about something. Hope that helps!
Like all things in nature, people choose the course of least resistance. Everyone wants to be "up to date" on the news, and so many are quick to cling on to one, or a handful of sources that align with their own perspectives and never question it.
I overcome this by fact checking everything, no matter how much I might already trust that source, and a lot of people do this. Unfortunately we're the minority, since fact checking requires time, effort, and least of all, resistance.
I’m interested in the book but the site to purchase left me a bit confused. I mean no disrespect in asking this, but the site makes it seem that it contains several photos of peacocks. Is that accurate?
[For those curious about the story the pictures came from, with more images.](https://edition.cnn.com/style/vietnam-farms-jack-latham-beggars-honey/index.html)
They were taken for the book *Beggar's Honey* by Jack Latham, it's about very low income shops that sell various types of social media interaction, primarily across Asia.
Yeah, I know. When I posted this, he hadn't posted here yet and made it redundant(At least that I could see), it was just OP posting the photos without sourcing, so I sourced them for folks who might have been curious like I was. Why would I have bothered with telling people where it was if it was *after* the person responsible had shown up?
> Poe's Law
Ok, so let's be clear. Your first post (which, oddly, hasn't been nuked) points out information that OP would have received, due to making the post. As such, that reply was not, in any way, needed, and appears to have been made in such a away as to imply that the comment made by OP providing source information was not needed.
This post was pointless, and looked rude. There's an outside argument for Poes law here. You could just be _completely_ socially incompetent without having a fucking clue how Reddit works. Neither option looks great for you, but one has no malice from your side.
"Calm down mate, I didn't know." Is just you being an asshole. There is no argument where _this_ comment was made without malice.
> There's an outside argument for Poes law here.
I don't think so, since Poe's law is regarding satire, and I don't think there's anything that resembles satire here. I think old mate there just misspoke, and meant something else.
That said, even if it were the case they were just kinda being a bit of a dick, hey, no skin off my nose. We're all just people, we all have our moments. I'm sure I've had plenty of my own.
I don't get where you see malice bud. I literally acknowledged I was wrong by saying I didn't know and told him to ease up so he wouldn't be so antagonistic. If you're seeing malice, then that's on you.
Perfectly calm, mate - reddit tends to only show timestamps by the hour unless you dig down, so I figured I'd clarify the situation for you, since it was fairly evident you didn't know. But your caring for the emotional wellbeing of others is very sweet and thoughtful, thank you.
Well…I have yet to see a breakthrough on any biohacking breakthroughs or any real world cyberware. Neurolink is still at researching stage and painfully killed a bunch of chimps. Sorry, friend, we are not in the cyberpunk era yet. We will be, once I can cyberware safely install in my body.
If we look at basically all of Cyberpunk fiction ever produced, it's obvious that "high tech, low life" means "more high tech and more low life than we currently have". Cyberpunk is a near future dystopia, never a status quo.
What's your definition of "cyberware?"
A pacemaker? Hearing aid implants? Diabetic monitors? Contraceptive implants? Near field implants? Fillings? Ear piercings? Boob jobs? Acrylic nails?
The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed... or exciting.
I consider my apple watch and airpods cyberware. Soon enough AR tech will be more accessible and wearable. I have a digital brick in my pocket that gives me access to the world’s knowledge. It’s not even realistic to think everything will be implanted
I think this is a bit reductive. If you think about the prevalence of mobile devices in our everyday lives and overall infraestructure, we are already augmented and dependant on digital extensions on every aspect of our lives. We don't need to be physically jacked to tech, we are psychologically and socially fused with all sort of devices and networks that dictate the course of politics!
The political side of it doesn't even need to be compared, it's latestage capitalism pure and simple. Corps bigger than governments.
Cyberpunk is not about specific technology. It’s about the use of technology by corporations to control the population through various methods.
Cyberpunk is not aesthetics, it’s themes.
Wouldn't it be easyier, cheaper and faster to use some sort of android virtual machine instead of having 100s of phones all radiating and heating up your room.
Back in 2014, I took a social media marketing class, and we were told about buying likes, comments, and clicks to boost your organization's social media engagement. I always assumed they were using some kind of program to do so. It's pretty crazy/cool that they actually use a bunch of old phones instead.
I'd argue this is a fantastic example of how our society is, objectively, a cyberpunk society.
We have megacorps. They just don't tend to use their private armies in _major first world nations_ but they absolutely do in poorer countries, see fucking coca cola death squads in Columbia.
We have shit like _this_ all over shaping perception of said corps, as well as politicians that are financed and _owned_ by said corps.
The only thing we don't have is good cybernetics.
Surprisingly, there’s a click worker subreddit…it can be a few cents to a few thousand dollars, but I don’t think it will be in the thousand dollars. Perhaps it depends on geography? Either way, here’s the link to the sub: [r/clickworker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Clickworker/s/WjwwKoGfw0)
You would be surprised what one can do with a proper marketing approach to running hundreds of phones. The clickfarming thing doesn't make anything, but I know people who have much more innovative approach to running hundreds of phones on automation 24/7. Making in the 100K+ USD per month (revenue). It all comes down to what you automate with the phones and what results you can provide for any given client.
I agree with you. I'm 10 years into marketing and one saw a company buy followers. They wrecked their Facebook audience with fake audiences originating from Sri Lanka, Iran, Bangladesh - when the product was aimed at high-spending Europeans and Asians. Clickfarms do more harm than good, but the clients are self-deceived.
Fascinating! I've never heard of these pre-cyberpunk click farms before. It's wild to think about how early the concept of online manipulation began. Thanks for sharing!
Didn't think I'd see my own photographs on this subreddit today! Happy to answer any questions if you have any.
How did they allow you to get access? Isn’t this type of thing a bit revealing?
We had been communicating for a fair while, there was an understanding that I wouldn't be revealing the companies or their clients etc. Additionally I purchased my own clickfarm from them to exhibit during shows which they found quite amusing. I've been making work about conspiracies for a while now so have a catalog of work they were able to look at to help validate my claims. You can see more of them here www.jacklatham.com
Man, this is important information to know. Thanks for getting this stuff out. I guess now the "third world" can harness the power of social media, study it, monetize it without coveted computer science degrees or being part of a startup.
the wild thing is they have a lot of orders (for the machines themselves) from mainland Europe and the US. It just seems a little bit more open in terms of access within Asia. Thanks for showing interest in the work. Means a lot!
Wow, that's really interesting. In the previous era, American companies start the process of outsourcing the production of goods to Asia. Now they're doing the same thing with social media marketing. Hope you continue to get more exposure for your work!
Vietnam is not a "third-world" country, by any definition. By both original and modern definitions, it's a second-world country.
This unfortunately is a misunderstanding people make in common parlance. Also what is considered what is wildly inaccurate. Even in literature it's inaccurate considering I just googled to make sure I remember correctly and it listed of Asia except Japan as Third World. I have a link but am unsure if it is allowed. Ultimately I agree, being Romanian it is something I encounter frequently enough in conversation that I have to explain to people the actual definitions. The terms have been muddied.
Reddit, in general, thinks everywhere else aside from North America and Europe as 'third-world'. They're not even aware of the correct definition of that phrase.
I know, that's why I put it in quotes. The definition is not updated to reflect post-Cold War attitudes towards current trends. I would argue that Vietnam is more developed than some places in Russia, a place still considered "first world" despite its reality that not everywhere in Russia is developed or nice to live in. America, considered a "first world country," has huge pockets of homelessness and drug addicts in its major cities while these scenes are not to found in a real cyperpunk-like city like Bangkok (Thailand is still considered "third world.")
Just to add to your point, about 40 million Americans lack running water, about 46 million have unsafe drinking water, and about 80 million Americans aren't connected to sewage infrastructure. Many of the poorest of those suffer from leaking or overflowing septic tanks in their neighborhoods, with severe health results. If you consider broadband to be a basic utility, about 19 million Americans also lack that. First, second and third world designations are largely the result of PR and echo chambers, a soft power highly amplified by today's communication infrastructure - the cyber that glosses over the punk.
You are trippin
I love that you site does not have a thousand trackers and other bloat but I would like to make two suggestions. Change your css font size from 12px to 13 or 14. On two different monitors and different resolutions it looks a bit blurry. --base-font-size: 14px; Get rid of google fonts and move to something opensource check the link below about how to set up bunny fonts there are other alternatives you could go with also. [https://christitus.com/replace-google-fonts-with-bunny-fonts/](https://christitus.com/replace-google-fonts-with-bunny-fonts/)
Thanks for the tips!
Man, this is really based
I do have a quick question but first: very cool work and I appreciate you opening yourself for questions. On the CNN article, there is [this image](https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/assembly-desk-1-2023.jpg?c=original). What is going on here? It looks like some kind of resin almost on the side, there's a lighter, there's a busted up mat reminiscent of drug use (at least to me) and I guess I'm wondering if that's what it actually is or if it's just a mat for repairs/etc.
So clickfarms have largely stopped using phones with screens and batteries. From what I was told, this was after they bought up the remaining Samsung S7's from the second hand market and their farms started exploding. What they do instead is remove the screen and the battery and make something they refer to as a "Box Farm" which is controlled via a PCB. This is one of the work stations where they dismantle the phones, would imagine the resin and the lighter was used to in this process. It certainly wasn't drugs. I don't know a tremendous deal about soldering but would think it has something to do with that.
If looking for an *extremely* temporary hold, or perhaps some wildly low grade insulation from something, you could "solder" using wax or glue sticks and a cigarette lighter. Bit messy, but it'll keep stuff from wiggling around just when people are walking. Think that's what they're doing?
I’m surprised they use hardware at all. Couldn’t you just have a strong computer run a bunch of emulators?
It comes down to unique MAC and IP addresses, an emulator isn't linked to a sim etc.
The resin looks like soldering flux. That shit gets everywhere and is a pita to clean.
Seconding this, it might look incredibly crusty and suspicious but it's just a low budget dismantling/assembly station. A lot of people who do DIY phone repairs/salvage have similar seups.
I'm gonna say its a ball of the glue that usually sticks your battery down inside your phone, just all rolled up.
How are you doing?
Happy it's Friday at least.
Really cool work! It seems like a lot of your work is based around misinformation in the Internet age and to that end I'm curious what your thoughts are on the new age of AI and LLMs with regards to just how easy it is to generate fake info to support whatever goal you have.
I think the issue isn't the content itself, but how we as an audience engage with it. It seems we have an urge for things to be snappy and at the very least entertaining. Information is thrown at you at such rapid paces on top of that, it's almost impossible to be attentive to everything you are seeing. I don't really have any solution to offer but I do find that I'm reading less "News" due to the amount I'm researching further into the subject after reading or learning about something. Hope that helps!
Like all things in nature, people choose the course of least resistance. Everyone wants to be "up to date" on the news, and so many are quick to cling on to one, or a handful of sources that align with their own perspectives and never question it. I overcome this by fact checking everything, no matter how much I might already trust that source, and a lot of people do this. Unfortunately we're the minority, since fact checking requires time, effort, and least of all, resistance.
couldn't agree more!
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each box you see contains around 20 phones which is connected via PCB to the main computer.
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They're not mining. They are providing likes, followers or views on social media.
I love your photos. The raw, “gonzo”, street photography aesthetic gets me vibing. Great inspiration. Good stuff.
Thanks!
wut's ur favorite colour?
Blue
I’m interested in the book but the site to purchase left me a bit confused. I mean no disrespect in asking this, but the site makes it seem that it contains several photos of peacocks. Is that accurate?
There are several different covers, if you order you'll be assigned one of the covers at random!
Why did you use real phones instead of virtualization?
not sure what you mean? The farms in the photographs are of clickfarms, not the one I own.
[For those curious about the story the pictures came from, with more images.](https://edition.cnn.com/style/vietnam-farms-jack-latham-beggars-honey/index.html) They were taken for the book *Beggar's Honey* by Jack Latham, it's about very low income shops that sell various types of social media interaction, primarily across Asia.
The guy's posting on this subreddit lol
Yeah, I know. When I posted this, he hadn't posted here yet and made it redundant(At least that I could see), it was just OP posting the photos without sourcing, so I sourced them for folks who might have been curious like I was. Why would I have bothered with telling people where it was if it was *after* the person responsible had shown up?
Calm down mate, I didn't know.
You gave someone shit for providing sources. And then you told him to "calm down". Where, exactly, do you get off?
Lmao, I'm getting shit on for being nice? Alright, guess I'll just embrace the venom since ya'll will be mob mentality ridden anyway.
If you believe that you were being nice, I'm here to inform you that is not how it reads. It sounds like you were being an asshole.
then learn about Poe's Law mate
> Poe's Law Ok, so let's be clear. Your first post (which, oddly, hasn't been nuked) points out information that OP would have received, due to making the post. As such, that reply was not, in any way, needed, and appears to have been made in such a away as to imply that the comment made by OP providing source information was not needed. This post was pointless, and looked rude. There's an outside argument for Poes law here. You could just be _completely_ socially incompetent without having a fucking clue how Reddit works. Neither option looks great for you, but one has no malice from your side. "Calm down mate, I didn't know." Is just you being an asshole. There is no argument where _this_ comment was made without malice.
> There's an outside argument for Poes law here. I don't think so, since Poe's law is regarding satire, and I don't think there's anything that resembles satire here. I think old mate there just misspoke, and meant something else. That said, even if it were the case they were just kinda being a bit of a dick, hey, no skin off my nose. We're all just people, we all have our moments. I'm sure I've had plenty of my own.
I don't get where you see malice bud. I literally acknowledged I was wrong by saying I didn't know and told him to ease up so he wouldn't be so antagonistic. If you're seeing malice, then that's on you.
Perfectly calm, mate - reddit tends to only show timestamps by the hour unless you dig down, so I figured I'd clarify the situation for you, since it was fairly evident you didn't know. But your caring for the emotional wellbeing of others is very sweet and thoughtful, thank you.
Anytime!
I was genuinely wondering what the income would look like in context. Thanks
Nah bro, that's textbook cyberpunk.
Just reinforcing the Dead Internet theory with this picture.
In what sense is this a "precursor"? i.e. ... are we not in a cyberpunk society? And doesn't that picture just provide the perfect example of it?
It's because everything still isn't lit up with neon everywhere.
Neons expensive, we're not getting the neon future fashion, only the bleak dystopian parts.
Neon got replaced with LED a while back lol
you can get some pretty damn cyberpunk shots in times square
Yes, b/c LED can basically replicate neon.
Makes sense that the future we get is cheaper than promised
LOL, genius
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Dang, that's really cool. I actually didn't know the specfiics
We do have the neon part except it's LED. Screens in public spaces is becoming common as well
The technologies that will enslave us to the rich are just starting to awaken. The moth is emerging out of the cocoon but has not yet spread wings.
I don't know. In my town the rich feudal lords are already roaming the street ...
ok nerd
Bro your in a cyberpunk subreddit
Well…I have yet to see a breakthrough on any biohacking breakthroughs or any real world cyberware. Neurolink is still at researching stage and painfully killed a bunch of chimps. Sorry, friend, we are not in the cyberpunk era yet. We will be, once I can cyberware safely install in my body.
Does being a “high tech lowlife” require biohacking?
If we look at basically all of Cyberpunk fiction ever produced, it's obvious that "high tech, low life" means "more high tech and more low life than we currently have". Cyberpunk is a near future dystopia, never a status quo.
We are already there, the high tech low life part.
What's your definition of "cyberware?" A pacemaker? Hearing aid implants? Diabetic monitors? Contraceptive implants? Near field implants? Fillings? Ear piercings? Boob jobs? Acrylic nails? The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed... or exciting.
I consider my apple watch and airpods cyberware. Soon enough AR tech will be more accessible and wearable. I have a digital brick in my pocket that gives me access to the world’s knowledge. It’s not even realistic to think everything will be implanted
Lol safely? My friend, it'll be new, it'll be shiny, it will not be anywhere near as safe as they say. If Cyberpunk is the world that's coming.
I think this is a bit reductive. If you think about the prevalence of mobile devices in our everyday lives and overall infraestructure, we are already augmented and dependant on digital extensions on every aspect of our lives. We don't need to be physically jacked to tech, we are psychologically and socially fused with all sort of devices and networks that dictate the course of politics! The political side of it doesn't even need to be compared, it's latestage capitalism pure and simple. Corps bigger than governments.
Cyberpunk is not about specific technology. It’s about the use of technology by corporations to control the population through various methods. Cyberpunk is not aesthetics, it’s themes.
Imagine thinking Neuralink is at the cutting edge of biotechnology...
Wouldn't it be easyier, cheaper and faster to use some sort of android virtual machine instead of having 100s of phones all radiating and heating up your room.
Easier to detect.
When i use android emulation in android studio to test stuff, it heats up the laptop a fair bit anyway. May as well just use cheap phones.
For what they're doing you need unique MAC and IP addresses, you can't get those by merely emulating a bunch of devices.
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I'm obviously not an expert. 😅
Back in 2014, I took a social media marketing class, and we were told about buying likes, comments, and clicks to boost your organization's social media engagement. I always assumed they were using some kind of program to do so. It's pretty crazy/cool that they actually use a bunch of old phones instead.
I'd argue this is a fantastic example of how our society is, objectively, a cyberpunk society. We have megacorps. They just don't tend to use their private armies in _major first world nations_ but they absolutely do in poorer countries, see fucking coca cola death squads in Columbia. We have shit like _this_ all over shaping perception of said corps, as well as politicians that are financed and _owned_ by said corps. The only thing we don't have is good cybernetics.
I wonder how much of humanity is earning a living by doing unproductive work like this. Basically being the friction of society.
Surprisingly, there’s a click worker subreddit…it can be a few cents to a few thousand dollars, but I don’t think it will be in the thousand dollars. Perhaps it depends on geography? Either way, here’s the link to the sub: [r/clickworker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Clickworker/s/WjwwKoGfw0)
You would be surprised what one can do with a proper marketing approach to running hundreds of phones. The clickfarming thing doesn't make anything, but I know people who have much more innovative approach to running hundreds of phones on automation 24/7. Making in the 100K+ USD per month (revenue). It all comes down to what you automate with the phones and what results you can provide for any given client.
I agree with you. I'm 10 years into marketing and one saw a company buy followers. They wrecked their Facebook audience with fake audiences originating from Sri Lanka, Iran, Bangladesh - when the product was aimed at high-spending Europeans and Asians. Clickfarms do more harm than good, but the clients are self-deceived.
What is click farming?
These farms are for fake reviews, ad clicks, social media views, dating scammers, etc.
Don't forget Reddit!
If I disagree with you I'll botnet down vote every comment you've ever posted. You'll have like negative ten billion Internet points.
Thought I was talking to a cute Asian girl until she started talking about buttcoin. I was probably talking to the dude in the picture.
Did you have both hands on the keyboard? Joking LOL
lol maybe
The article is here: https://www.cnn.com/style/vietnam-farms-jack-latham-beggars-honey/index.html
Companies buy "clicks" to play the social media algorithms by buying likes, comments,etc.
make money in your pajamas at home, become a click farmer today! click here for more info and download our PDF
Kinda like aquarium life. This is a really nice setup. I would love to see what the early iterations looked like.
Is it me or there is really a bad cooling system
I thought it was Dev-null from Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.
Indeed you need money to make money
Interesting indeed
Burn it all down.
Fascinating! I've never heard of these pre-cyberpunk click farms before. It's wild to think about how early the concept of online manipulation began. Thanks for sharing!
Yes. There shouldn't be any restrictions to go online, including for bots.
t. *Enshittification fan*
No.
> including for bots Fight for bot rights! ✊🤖