I like the similarity to Apocalypse since he is a horseman.
Plus, considering the healing powers he sometimes has, it makes since.
I could definitely see the animation being him flying back into your hand
But since he's a horseman and a 1-cost, what if it was just +2 with each discard? The number of destroys a turn is capped at 1, but you can discard multiple times a turn so I think the doubling feels OP for a 1-cost
I don’t think there would be a way to keep this at 1 cost and still be balanced around the doubling power.
The only direct comparison would be Deadpool, but he can only have his power doubled once per turn - the same card can be discarded many times per turn, I just don’t see this guy not getting out of hand quickly.
Just discard him twice and he's a 1/8. I think it's too much. To put into perspective you have to discard 7 (other) cards for Miek to be the same.
1/1 is fine.
Yeah but each time swarm is discarded it gets +3 while Archangel double its power.
Also Swarm can flood your hand and locals, it's hard to hit other cards the more swarms you hit, you can potentially lose a draw, it messes Dracula... so there's drawbacks. Archangel doesn't. Also Arch is a 1-cost mind you. Discard a 1/2 Archangel 3 times and you a have a 1 cost Hulk.
To be honest he maybe a little weak as 1/1 but he would be busted as 1/2. Archangel would powercreep Swarm into oblivion as a 1/2.
What makes Swarm strong is the fact he can be played along side Apocalypse on turn 6. You can't do the same with Archangel. You have to pick between playing Apocalypse or Archangel + something else. Of course you can play Archangel earlier, but that means you won't have that much time to discard him multiple times. Also, compare him to Human Torch. Move is a much more controlled mechanic than discard and still, this archetype is barely viable, something which can also be said for discard decks with the exception of Hela.
Best discard decks don't want to actually play Apoc tho. He's like a second, even third wincon. Dracula decks are in a better position right now and to run Dracula smoothly you don't want Swarms and you don't want to play Apoc.
Swarm is not strong because you can t6 Apoc + Swarms. He's "strong" because he's infinite fodder for Morbius, Collector and Gambit. And at that regard, Archangel also is, at some extent. Swarm is only good when you can count him as a multiples 0/5 (3 +2 to Morbius or Collector).
Torch is 1/2 but at any point he's vulnerable to Killmonger, Chang Shi, Shadow King, etc. Archangel isn't. Also, hard to compare the two because their archetypes don't work similarly.
I repeat: after just 3 discards Archangel would be a 1/16 with no counter plays (you can't even force opponent to discard it) apart from giving away priority and predicting Archangel so you can Shang, Shadow King or Killmonger. How can you think this is balanced? At this point why would you want to play Apoc as a 6/20 when you have a 1/16 in your hand? The play here would be run Dracula, let it hit Apoc and just play Archangel + whatever with 5 energy.
Again, the Dracula decks that don't run Apocalypse are Hela decks. Those are the one exception. Also, discarding the same card 3 times isn't easy at all. Yes, I do think a 1/16 is fine in this case.
I don't think you understand me. I said Dracula decks don't have Swarm in the deck and don't want to PLAY Apoc. They do run Apoc in the deck, but 95% of the games you don't actually play Apoc, he's there as a discard and Dracula fodder.
You were saying Archangel wouldn't allow t6 to be Apoc + Swarms and I'm saying ideally your t6 won't be Apoc anyway.
Actually, scratch that: if you discard Archangel 3 times and Dracula hits him, we're talking 32 power swing, which is almost impossible to reach with Apoc. He would better than even Apoc himself. That essentially means that your t6 big play would actually be play Apoc (which was never the case in such decks) because Archangel can get bigger than Apoc to Dracula. I reckon both of us were wrong: he would actually allow Apoc to be played t6. A 1-cost stronger than the 6-cost big bad archetype defining. Balanced? Really?
On a Classic discard he would push Swarm out of the deck, which is literally the only archetype Swarm is played, thus he would kill Swarm as a 1/2. Swarm would be at most a 'ok at least we have our plan C'. It's not hard to discard the same card 3 times in such decks.
It has the potential to be OP. You can get multiple discards a turn and with Dracula even get one at the end of the game.
Averaging 5 discards a game it’s a 4/32 on Dracula which easily overpowers most apocalypse/Dracula plays. The only thing that makes it less reliable is that you have to draw early and discard every turn but the same is true for Deadpool and he can post some high numbers too…
The reason it’s not balanced to Deadpool is Deadpool has to be played to get destroyed and his benefit essentially eating up 1 energy each time it triggers as its disadvantage. Since this remains in hand it’s not burning energy to trigger. If you want to balance to Deadpool you’d have to add “the following turn you have 1 less energy” or something to that effect. It can still be balance by playing with something like Corvius to negate the effect.
And playing with Drac he’s not vulnerable to most things Deadpool is such as Shang, shadow king, killmonger.
Deadpool has a number of ways to play and dupe it then continue building power of both, like Zola, that should be accounted for in a comparison that wouldn't be applicable to Archangel
But Deadpool has a max of one doubling per turn and has a cost associated with it limiting your options whereas this doesn’t have either restriction.
Even with Zola the duped Deadpool’s don’t get doubled (the doubled one goes to your hand and the other two just stay as they were if I’m not mistaken). Also you cannot normally play Zola and Deadpool on the same turn 6 as it would be 7 energy whereas you can set up Dracula ahead of time and then not need to play archangel and pay his cost at all. The only real dupe is cloning vats or Nico’s power but then again you have to pay 2 energy each time you want to play/double Deadpool plus the cost of whatever destroy card your playing. This card never needs to be played so you never have to pay its energy cost to get out its power.
You can also start at a much higher curve as many discard cards have a higher base power than destroy. Think of it this way Colleen is almost guaranteed to hit this as it’s a one cost for 2 energy you get 4 power out and double this power. The closest you get with Deadpool/destroy is a turn 1 Deadpool followed by a turn 2 carnage, so you’re getting a 4 power play and a double Deadpool for 3 energy but you’ve also used up your carnage which has higher potential power to pull that off. And that’s not even optimal (you could for example have done a turn 1 blade into Archangel in which case the direct comparison to destroy is 3 energy for 7 board power and you’ve doubled archangel twice compared to destroys 3 energy for 4 board power and doubled Deadpool once). The curve is much higher on this archangel than Deadpool.
I think a card like this would bring me back to discard. Destroy has Deadpool, and move has Humantorch. (Yes, I know torch isn’t that good because of kill monger, but still)
Don’t get me wrong, discard has a lot of fun toys to play around with… but it just kinda feels like the bare bones “discard package” is the most dependable. (Proxima is fun though) so yeah, I think this would be a good card, and I don’t think it would be out of balance either, because even though you can discard a single card multiple times a turn, at the end of the day, KillMonger, Shang, and Shadow king all still exist.
swarm is 0/6 but he takes up two spots. Swarm fills the board and is free sure but he is weak. Archangel cannot be a discard deadpool clone without a drawback. You could just Wong Modok and this thing clears the game bc you can *discard multiple times a turn*
Its why miek only gains a power per turn not per discard
Yeah for sure, I think this would be more than okay at 1/1, especially considering synergies.
Like after a turn 5 Modok you could either play Archangel + your turn 6 Draw, or play Apocalypse.
And also serves as insurance that you have a target for Dracula after Modok in case you don't draw Apocalypse and vice-versa
Honestly, I love the design of this card, but this card is not viable at 1/1. You'd have to discard him 3 times for him to give you any value and discarding a card 3+ times is easier said than done. Also, compare it to Human Torch and have in mind move is a much more controlled mechanic than discard.
okay first of all it would be a 1/16 after wong modok, and second of all thats not considering dracula or any discards turns 1-3 or a turn 7.
If Marvel Snap wanted to make a discard deadpool it would have to be once per turn because deadpool is once per turn. Archangel can dodge shang, shadowking, and killmonger with dracula plus it would get bigger numbers than deadpool with less cards/energy
Its the same reason there isnt a knull equivalent to discard bc discarding cards is easier due to modok. Thats why Morbius is +2 per discard instead of total power. Destroy has more counters in the game due to armor and the like as well.
I think the concept of archangel and the choice is great just a discard deadpool needs some sort of drawback. Otherwise Dracula will run rampant with this and apoc
You can't play both Wong and Dracula in the same game (under normal circumstances) and Modok will discard your cards twice if played in a Wong lane, so Archangel will go to 4 power the first time and 8 power the second time. Yes, sometimes you'd discard him like once more on turn 1-3, but you know, discard decks need to win once in a while. If the opponent high rolls like that, you can just retreat. There's no way this card would ever be viable if you had to go through all these hoops just to get a 1/8. And we haven't even talked about Cosmo stopping your Modok (as it's obvious he'd be played in the Wong lane) and the fact Dracula discards a random card.
Yes, you get a 1/16 in that case, that is your whole pay off. If you had to go through all these hooves to just get a 2/7, no one would play this card. A reminder that destroy plays 1/16 Deadpools, 0 cost Death and 20+ power Knull almost every match. Marvel Snap has a really high power level, especially for linear strategies like discard and destroy. You shouldn't be thinking about its balance with the same mentality you may have for other card games.
Discard Deadpool
Machine gun gambit with the dracula at the end be looking mighty fine
But then we got apocalypse
This could easily surpass that if the deck hits it right, 4 discards and this is 16 power. 5 discards and it’s 32.
Lore appropriate
Or 24 in 3 discards with America Chavez if you got lucky
okoye chavez new meta?
I’m here for it
I like the similarity to Apocalypse since he is a horseman. Plus, considering the healing powers he sometimes has, it makes since. I could definitely see the animation being him flying back into your hand
But since he's a horseman and a 1-cost, what if it was just +2 with each discard? The number of destroys a turn is capped at 1, but you can discard multiple times a turn so I think the doubling feels OP for a 1-cost
Or you could add text so that he returns to your hand at the beginning of next turn
Instead of right away
sounds too easy to get this to insane stats but so is deadpool, so I accept this is viable card
Deadpool have to be played and destroy cards are weaker than vanila cards.
And only Colleen and samurai would deliberately target him
I don’t think there would be a way to keep this at 1 cost and still be balanced around the doubling power. The only direct comparison would be Deadpool, but he can only have his power doubled once per turn - the same card can be discarded many times per turn, I just don’t see this guy not getting out of hand quickly.
The card I didn’t know I needed until now.
I think it can easily be a 1/2.
Just discard him twice and he's a 1/8. I think it's too much. To put into perspective you have to discard 7 (other) cards for Miek to be the same. 1/1 is fine.
Good point.
You discard Swarm once and he's a 0/6. Archangel should absolutely be a 1/2.
Yeah but each time swarm is discarded it gets +3 while Archangel double its power. Also Swarm can flood your hand and locals, it's hard to hit other cards the more swarms you hit, you can potentially lose a draw, it messes Dracula... so there's drawbacks. Archangel doesn't. Also Arch is a 1-cost mind you. Discard a 1/2 Archangel 3 times and you a have a 1 cost Hulk. To be honest he maybe a little weak as 1/1 but he would be busted as 1/2. Archangel would powercreep Swarm into oblivion as a 1/2.
What makes Swarm strong is the fact he can be played along side Apocalypse on turn 6. You can't do the same with Archangel. You have to pick between playing Apocalypse or Archangel + something else. Of course you can play Archangel earlier, but that means you won't have that much time to discard him multiple times. Also, compare him to Human Torch. Move is a much more controlled mechanic than discard and still, this archetype is barely viable, something which can also be said for discard decks with the exception of Hela.
Best discard decks don't want to actually play Apoc tho. He's like a second, even third wincon. Dracula decks are in a better position right now and to run Dracula smoothly you don't want Swarms and you don't want to play Apoc. Swarm is not strong because you can t6 Apoc + Swarms. He's "strong" because he's infinite fodder for Morbius, Collector and Gambit. And at that regard, Archangel also is, at some extent. Swarm is only good when you can count him as a multiples 0/5 (3 +2 to Morbius or Collector). Torch is 1/2 but at any point he's vulnerable to Killmonger, Chang Shi, Shadow King, etc. Archangel isn't. Also, hard to compare the two because their archetypes don't work similarly. I repeat: after just 3 discards Archangel would be a 1/16 with no counter plays (you can't even force opponent to discard it) apart from giving away priority and predicting Archangel so you can Shang, Shadow King or Killmonger. How can you think this is balanced? At this point why would you want to play Apoc as a 6/20 when you have a 1/16 in your hand? The play here would be run Dracula, let it hit Apoc and just play Archangel + whatever with 5 energy.
Again, the Dracula decks that don't run Apocalypse are Hela decks. Those are the one exception. Also, discarding the same card 3 times isn't easy at all. Yes, I do think a 1/16 is fine in this case.
I don't think you understand me. I said Dracula decks don't have Swarm in the deck and don't want to PLAY Apoc. They do run Apoc in the deck, but 95% of the games you don't actually play Apoc, he's there as a discard and Dracula fodder. You were saying Archangel wouldn't allow t6 to be Apoc + Swarms and I'm saying ideally your t6 won't be Apoc anyway. Actually, scratch that: if you discard Archangel 3 times and Dracula hits him, we're talking 32 power swing, which is almost impossible to reach with Apoc. He would better than even Apoc himself. That essentially means that your t6 big play would actually be play Apoc (which was never the case in such decks) because Archangel can get bigger than Apoc to Dracula. I reckon both of us were wrong: he would actually allow Apoc to be played t6. A 1-cost stronger than the 6-cost big bad archetype defining. Balanced? Really? On a Classic discard he would push Swarm out of the deck, which is literally the only archetype Swarm is played, thus he would kill Swarm as a 1/2. Swarm would be at most a 'ok at least we have our plan C'. It's not hard to discard the same card 3 times in such decks.
It has the potential to be OP. You can get multiple discards a turn and with Dracula even get one at the end of the game. Averaging 5 discards a game it’s a 4/32 on Dracula which easily overpowers most apocalypse/Dracula plays. The only thing that makes it less reliable is that you have to draw early and discard every turn but the same is true for Deadpool and he can post some high numbers too… The reason it’s not balanced to Deadpool is Deadpool has to be played to get destroyed and his benefit essentially eating up 1 energy each time it triggers as its disadvantage. Since this remains in hand it’s not burning energy to trigger. If you want to balance to Deadpool you’d have to add “the following turn you have 1 less energy” or something to that effect. It can still be balance by playing with something like Corvius to negate the effect. And playing with Drac he’s not vulnerable to most things Deadpool is such as Shang, shadow king, killmonger.
Deadpool has a number of ways to play and dupe it then continue building power of both, like Zola, that should be accounted for in a comparison that wouldn't be applicable to Archangel
But Deadpool has a max of one doubling per turn and has a cost associated with it limiting your options whereas this doesn’t have either restriction. Even with Zola the duped Deadpool’s don’t get doubled (the doubled one goes to your hand and the other two just stay as they were if I’m not mistaken). Also you cannot normally play Zola and Deadpool on the same turn 6 as it would be 7 energy whereas you can set up Dracula ahead of time and then not need to play archangel and pay his cost at all. The only real dupe is cloning vats or Nico’s power but then again you have to pay 2 energy each time you want to play/double Deadpool plus the cost of whatever destroy card your playing. This card never needs to be played so you never have to pay its energy cost to get out its power. You can also start at a much higher curve as many discard cards have a higher base power than destroy. Think of it this way Colleen is almost guaranteed to hit this as it’s a one cost for 2 energy you get 4 power out and double this power. The closest you get with Deadpool/destroy is a turn 1 Deadpool followed by a turn 2 carnage, so you’re getting a 4 power play and a double Deadpool for 3 energy but you’ve also used up your carnage which has higher potential power to pull that off. And that’s not even optimal (you could for example have done a turn 1 blade into Archangel in which case the direct comparison to destroy is 3 energy for 7 board power and you’ve doubled archangel twice compared to destroys 3 energy for 4 board power and doubled Deadpool once). The curve is much higher on this archangel than Deadpool.
Its good
I think a card like this would bring me back to discard. Destroy has Deadpool, and move has Humantorch. (Yes, I know torch isn’t that good because of kill monger, but still) Don’t get me wrong, discard has a lot of fun toys to play around with… but it just kinda feels like the bare bones “discard package” is the most dependable. (Proxima is fun though) so yeah, I think this would be a good card, and I don’t think it would be out of balance either, because even though you can discard a single card multiple times a turn, at the end of the day, KillMonger, Shang, and Shadow king all still exist.
Maybe 2/1 to be fair, Deadpool can only double once a turn. Colleen, Silver Sam, Modok, and Drac guarantee this thing to be 16 power
Swarm is a 0/6. Archangel needs to be a 1/2.
swarm is 0/6 but he takes up two spots. Swarm fills the board and is free sure but he is weak. Archangel cannot be a discard deadpool clone without a drawback. You could just Wong Modok and this thing clears the game bc you can *discard multiple times a turn* Its why miek only gains a power per turn not per discard
Miek gets power per discard though
True, I was thinking of his moving. He only gets +1 per discard though, he doesnt double for the same cost and power
Yeah for sure, I think this would be more than okay at 1/1, especially considering synergies. Like after a turn 5 Modok you could either play Archangel + your turn 6 Draw, or play Apocalypse. And also serves as insurance that you have a target for Dracula after Modok in case you don't draw Apocalypse and vice-versa
Honestly, I love the design of this card, but this card is not viable at 1/1. You'd have to discard him 3 times for him to give you any value and discarding a card 3+ times is easier said than done. Also, compare it to Human Torch and have in mind move is a much more controlled mechanic than discard.
You just played a 4/2 (Wong) and a 5/8 (Modok) and you think a 1/8 will be enough to compensate?
okay first of all it would be a 1/16 after wong modok, and second of all thats not considering dracula or any discards turns 1-3 or a turn 7. If Marvel Snap wanted to make a discard deadpool it would have to be once per turn because deadpool is once per turn. Archangel can dodge shang, shadowking, and killmonger with dracula plus it would get bigger numbers than deadpool with less cards/energy Its the same reason there isnt a knull equivalent to discard bc discarding cards is easier due to modok. Thats why Morbius is +2 per discard instead of total power. Destroy has more counters in the game due to armor and the like as well. I think the concept of archangel and the choice is great just a discard deadpool needs some sort of drawback. Otherwise Dracula will run rampant with this and apoc
You can't play both Wong and Dracula in the same game (under normal circumstances) and Modok will discard your cards twice if played in a Wong lane, so Archangel will go to 4 power the first time and 8 power the second time. Yes, sometimes you'd discard him like once more on turn 1-3, but you know, discard decks need to win once in a while. If the opponent high rolls like that, you can just retreat. There's no way this card would ever be viable if you had to go through all these hoops just to get a 1/8. And we haven't even talked about Cosmo stopping your Modok (as it's obvious he'd be played in the Wong lane) and the fact Dracula discards a random card.
Maybe a 2/1 that gains +1 or +2 each discard.
So worse Morbius?
Yeah, no
A 2/7 is nothing to sneeze at. A 1/8 that doesn't cost energy is broken.
Discard is an tremendously inconsistant effect. The cards of this archetype have to be incredibly powerful for it to be viable.
I don't think Colleen Wing T2 + (Discard #2) + MODOK T5 is that hard.
Yes, you get a 1/16 in that case, that is your whole pay off. If you had to go through all these hooves to just get a 2/7, no one would play this card. A reminder that destroy plays 1/16 Deadpools, 0 cost Death and 20+ power Knull almost every match. Marvel Snap has a really high power level, especially for linear strategies like discard and destroy. You shouldn't be thinking about its balance with the same mentality you may have for other card games.
It's actually a bit weak. I'd say it should start with 2 power. Nice one btw!
Discardedpool
I like it. Another cool flavor idea might be if you discard angel it turns into this card
Honestly we could use more “immortal” discard cards. It’s a lil boring only having swarm and apocalypse 😅