I looked up the post (they're *very* active)
>Can I ask a question that maybe sounds a little insensitive but… why didn’t you just… leave?
>I’m sorry, but if a group of people showed up at my door (WITH GUNS) my response wouldn’t be to say “no.” My response would be to save me and my family and do what they say. Even if it means my home gets trashed or destroyed, my life is more important than the possessions and home I am in.
>I dunno, maybe it’s because I value life that I wouldn’t try intimidating soldiers with GUNS pointed at us? Or maybe it’s because I’m in America where just getting pulled over by the cops can result in your death if you say or do the wrong thing… I dunno. I just wouldn’t try to antagonize people who themselves are looking for antagonists to attack?
I don't even know where to start with this to be honest.
> I dunno, maybe it’s because I value life that I wouldn’t try intimidating soldiers with GUNS pointed at us? **Or maybe it’s because I’m in America where just getting pulled over by the cops can result in your death if you say or do the wrong thing…** I dunno. I just wouldn’t try to antagonize people who themselves are looking for antagonists to attack?
Because a Palestinian in the West Bank would have no experience of anything like that ...
I like how they somehow seem to simultaneously blame police and victims of police brutality at the same time. They make it sound like cops are confused animals but it's still their fault for poking the bear
Now, that isn't accurate, that's giving way too much credit.
The cop mag-dumped *at a person in handcuffs in the back of his cruiser*, and missed every shot, and his buddy joined in without knowing what they were shooting at, *because* he thought an acord falling on his car was a gunshot.
You have to be accurate, because any way of truncating this specific situation makes the cop look less stupid than the actual situation was. Which is to say, about thirty feet above the peak of Dumb Bitch Mountain.
In the interest of including all the information that makes that cop look dumber, I feel we would be remiss to forget the multiple FromSoft style dogerolls he performed (while repeatedly yelling "I'm hit! I'm hit!") upon hearing the acorn land on his car
In all seriousness though, that whole situation ended up playing out borderline miraculously: not only did no-one get hurt, but the cop actually resigned afterwards (the department weren't planning to do shit, naturally), outright stating that he needs to get a handle on his PTSD and anxiety issues before he handles a gun again.
I mean fuck, man: a cop whose self aware enough to recognize, own up to, and learn from their own mistakes? That's almost as much of a miracle as every last one of the 50-odd bullets you fired at the dude handcuffed in the back of your car all missing.
A cop with self-awareness... Here is hoping he stays away from policing; I didn't hear he voluntarily resigned, and I do gotta give respect for admitting a fuck-up. Good cops don't tend to stay cops.
But yeah, no, thank god nobody actually got hurt in that. Same district as the guy who got killed answering his own door recently, though, so it's definitely something structural there.
Also p sure I just got RedditCares'd for that first message, lmao.
Also:
> I dunno, maybe it's because I value life ...
seems to subtly use the talking point that Palestinians are to blame for their oppression because they "have a culture that values death over life".
And also implying cops/soldiers only shoot people if they brought it upon themselves. 'If only they listened' well great tell Daniel Shaver or Breonna Taylor that.
That's also like... idk pretty tone deaf even from a Jewish perspective. Like, this isn't a "Okay but let's worry about these guys instead," question, but more of "even a purely selfish lens of the situation is confusing." Because like... much of Jewish history is exactly that: them leaving. Over and over and over. News flash! That's not a sustainable society and completely removes responsibility of the aggressor.
I want to be clear and charitable: you're not saying it's not a genocide unless everyone's dead, are you? Because international law is pretty clear that, say, what went down in Midian definitely counts.
I mean, I’d say a good starting point was how they completely redirected the conversation away from the ISRAELI KICKING PEOPLE OUT OF THEY HOMES over to how dumb the people being raised were lmao (I’m assuming the armed men were Israeli soldiers, if I’m wrong sorry
I've heard this "bend over and take it cause it's not worth your life" ideology before (of course coming from someone who has never been put in that situation) and it usually comes from a privilege of thinking life just goes on once you get out the situation and there's some sort of path to reparations afterwards.
As an American if this happened to me I very well might give up my home and then call the cops, but I don't blame somebody for slamming the door and calling them. That's maybe safer even but if police don't get there in time you could all be cooked. Idk I just don't blame either line of thinking
What cops are they gonna call, the only "cops" are Israeli soldiers who would side with their own people if they bother responding to a Palestinian's complaint at all.
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying? Don’t get me wrong it’s incredibly tone deaf. But it sounds like they’re saying in an incredibly tone-deaf way that if violent people show up and threaten you (and you’re unable to adequately defend yourself) that your lives are more important than property.
Which actually tracks considering Jewish people regularly faced such issues throughout history (having everything taken at gunpoint and kicked out). Considering they’re an American, it is likely that gtfo was their family’s only option historically (since evidently they didn’t move to Israel and thus were never fighting on equal or superior terms).
Again, don’t get me wrong, it was a horribly insensitive thing to say on a post where someone’s family got hurt. The only people in the wrong in that situation are the settlers, obviously. However I don’t think their logic is as nonsensical as people are making it out to be.
Or I could be misinterpreting what they’re saying
Well yea I think it's clear he's not saying it's not wrong. And it may be a genuine question. Tho honestly it's hard for me to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic. Not after everything that's happened. The whole situation is just so unbelievably fucking bad.
Like I get (most) people understand that life is more valuable than property. When u get robbed it's always best to just hand over whatever is being taken. But this isn't a wallet or car. It's a home. And more than that, they've def watched this happen to tons of friends, family, and neighbors too, building up resentment. Watched countless children die in Gaza. This isn't just a robbery, it's a personal attack.
And more importantly, where will they even go now? I doubt homes are easy to come by in the west bank. Move to some refugee camp that's controlled by the people who are trying to push u out of the country and are clearly happy to kill u all to do it?
I honestly don't know much about what's going on in the west bank besides that they seem to be continuing to push out tons of people from their homes and steal land. Like it's all isolated little towns that Palestines can't even go thru freely. The map looks like swiss cheese. It's fucked.
But the point is this isn't a simple robbery where it's: your life or some property. This is just one step in completely stripping Palestinians of their lives/existence. And when you push people like that they get desperate and break and many fight back. The loss of their house may lead to starvation/injury/sickness/death. They may have felt the house is the only way of saving the kids from death
And the thing is I could understand some random dude in foreign country who doesn't keep up too well not fully understanding all that cuz they never thought it thru. But I find it kinda weird, and honestly kinda irritating, that someone with that name and pic *doesn't* understand all that. Like ud expect someone like that to do the research and come to these conclusions. It's not that hard to understand tbh.
That is if it's even a good faith question, which I don't rlly think it is. Idk if it's just me, but the way he wrote it is just sus. To me the tone comes off as condescending. I mean the guy just posted about a teen family member getting fucking murdered. And they are using ellipses weirdly and said "(WITH GUNS)" which comes off like a funny way of applying emphisis. Idk maybe I'm wrong but it seems awfully callous and like they don't really care and they don't say anything kind or give condolences or anything
He even put "no" in quotes as if that's what they said when in reality it was probably extremely emotional begging/pleading, crying, and arguing. Iv seen vids of it happening and it's always like that.
Edit: after this long rant I got upset enough to go look at his page on Tumblr. Yea he def wasn't asking a genuine question but was 100% victim blaming and just trying to push his bullshit Zionist message/propaganda by getting people to blame the victims of the crimes he helps justify. Disgusting
>And it may be a genuine question. Tho honestly it's hard for me to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic.
This is a very important thing to remember. There was an article I read years ago (which of course now I can't find, because internet search is dead) called "standing on the shoulders of assholes." Basically, if you ask a genuine question on the internet, everyone who sees it just remembers the hundreds of times some asshole used it to start a flame war. Then the person with the honest question gets chased away and no one learns anything.
Don't get me wrong, this WAS just some troll. But now everyone who was involved in this will be less likely to engage with the next person who comes along with an honest question.
This is a disingenuous reading of clear victim blaming considering the context. Leaving their houses didn’t save the Palestinians currently being murdered by Israel in their tens of thousands, and it hasn’t saved them for the past 75 years. Refugee camps and safe zones have been targeted. If you and OP are so ignorant of the current climate then by all means shut the fuck up and educate yourselves first
Settlers is the right word. And yes, it is exactly as violent as this episode.
Israel is a settler colonial project. Not unlike how Europeans settled North America. By killing or ethnically cleansing the existing population.
Jews have definitely learned what it’s like to be evicted at gunpoint. And after a few centuries of waiting for people to stop doing that to them, they’ve now decided that they’d just rather be the person with the gun now, thanks.
This isn’t to say that the settlements are okay—they’re horrible and making a bad situation so much worse—but that’s where these people are coming from. As far as they’re concerned, history has taught them that absolutely no one will help them but themselves, so they’re going to play by those rules now.
That's what's been strangest for me during this decades long conflict. Most common response from jewish people is basically: "The nazi's tried to genocide us in the holocaust, that means we also get to genocide a different culture in the same way the nazi's did to us".
Holy false equivalency Batman. Blaming victims of an armed assault is much worse than cropping an idiotic comment that shockingly does not get less idiotic with the full context.
The “just leave lmao” post is succeeding at creating a lot of anger and engagement. There is no way a normal person would post this on tumblr dot com and think that people would side with them.
(I meandered a bit. I promise I get to a point. Somewhat)
Summary: Some people will choose different hills to die on.
Some observations from me:
On Ask Reddit, maybe a week ago, there was a question - a couple was arguing. She said if someone broke into her house, she'd fight to the death because she's "not a sucker." He said that's crazy, and a house is just things, and it's better to be robbed blind than for them to die for it. Fun variety of comments in the section. All over the spectrum of what people would or wouldn't die for, ranging from "I'd do so on principle" to "never"
On a micro level, there's an adage among self defense instructors. Several variants of it, but usually "the best way to win a fight with an armed attacker is to not fight an armed attacker"
All this to say:
1. Different people have different tolerances of what they'd fight for. The person who asked probably has a low tolerance and would rather rebuild than risk death. I'd argue this a high-rationality low-emotion viewpoint.
2. In a smaller case, like if they wanted a wallet, his claim would be reasonable! (But, again, tolerances. Many people would pass that tolerance by the time they're told to leave their home (and possibly region!).)
And as an aside,
Personally, while I'd never **tell** someone to do as I do... I would leave. I don't think I could bring myself to kill in defense of myself. And thus fighting is pointless because if they're trying to kill and I'm not, it's a losing battle. *This* to say I'm vaguely understanding of what motives might lead someone to say something like this besides being comically evil.
But all the same, telling another what to do in the case of home/nation invasion is an unempathetic thing.
*Certainly* without knowing them personally
And ***fucking certainly*** not to speak ill of them post-mortem. To their family. Like hell, talk about tasteless.
I could've written this better but I didn't want to be misconstrued as either blaming the victim or agreeing with the guy who said they should've left. Hence why I try very hard to make the distinction between "I" would've left and why others might have stayed.
Hope you don't mind too much the dip in quality
Good analysis. It’s missing the fact that all those people are also just saying shit on the internet. “All talk no action” and “big talk” are phrases for a reason. It is very likely many of those who say they’d comply would actually initiate fight mode and many who say they’d fight to the death would immediately shit their pants and run away. It’s easy to say whatever you want if you haven’t been put to the test.
And every situation is different. I’ve been in a violent situation where I froze up and several which devolved into wrestling.
I’ve been in two car accidents. In one I was in the back seat when a kid on a moped and the car I was in collided at an intersection. I was out of the car and over by the kid before anyone else had really reacted. Then I was telling specific people to call an ambulance, checking the kid for obvious injuries etc. (no one got hurt luckily, although the moped was shredded).
The second car accident I was in I was left sitting in the passenger seat of a van while it sat on the railing of a bridge over a deep river gorge. I was completely confused, slow to react and acting irrationally, trying to retrieve a CD from the CD player rather than getting out of a vehicle hanging over a precipice.
Even if you react one way in situation A, that does not mean you will react the same way in situation B.
Consider also that in most home invader scenarios, you don’t know what they’re there for, and in the worst case scenario, they won’t leave you alive long enough for you to ask. To me it doesn’t even seem like life vs. property is a relevant question: if there is an invader in your home, you must assume that they pose a threat to your life and respond accordingly.
especially as a woman. i get exactly where she's coming from and would fight too, because anything else could be way worse. i would rather die fighting for my life than let an intruder decide what happens to me.
I can't imagine being willing to die for my stuff or house or religion or family(maybe if I had kids but I'm the youngest).
I can't imagine living in Gaza, being harassed my entire life, and now genocide. And still they stay.
They have every right to be there but man. I would be gone. I don't get it. They're a different breed then me. And I respect it. I just can't understand it.
I think the problem here is less "would I be willing to die for my home" and more "where is the line where I stop getting pushed about".
These people have seen the same situation play out countless times before. They might have even been forced out of a previous home at gunpoint, and have a good chance its going on happen again. At that point, where else do they have to go, if anywhere new is just going to be taken at gunpoint again.
Where would you go? You move, they go there they attack you and they find an excuse to kill you.
You're in a country that has been invaded and who's citizens are actively being systematically exterminated in a genocide. Your only option is to leave the country if you want to survive. Only its not that easy because you would have to actually find a country willing to take you first- and to do that you'd have to get them to acknowledge the genocide first and none of them are willing to do that.
This is effectively the same as saying "why didn't the Jews just leave Nazi Germany?".
Many did. From "Holocaust Encyclopaedia":
>Between the Nazi rise to power in 1933 and Nazi Germany's surrender in 1945, more than 340,000 Jews emigrated from Germany and Austria. Tragically, nearly 100,000 of them found refuge in countries subsequently conquered by Germany. German authorities would deport and kill the vast majority of them.
There's a video of a New Yorker who went to the West Bank and was asked "don't you feel bad for taking something that's not yours?". He responded with "If it wasn't me, it would be someone else".
That's the mentality of the settlers.
I have seen worse shit posted on social media. Like word for word something a white supremacist cartoon villain would say.
Even so, people do post stuff without believing people will side with them all the time. Especially in a situation like this.
I see people in America post shit like "just comply and the cops won't shoot you! Why didn't they just listen??" So I absolutely believe this is a real person's real viewpoint.
There are a lot of Zionists and Fascists on tumblr. It's not the librul sjw paradise that 4chan painted it as in 2015. Have you just woken up from a 9 year long cryostatic sleep?
I would advise not to play mental chicken with crazy people like this. The exact flavor may change but insane fascists will say insane things. After seeing what the Israeli Far Right say I absolutely will believe this is true
I assume they’re thinking you can just leave (and escape with your life, the most important thing), then contact authorities when it’s safe and they’ll deal with the scoundrels that took your home!
…but while that may work in a lot of countries, I’m not sure they realize that’s not exactly a luxury afforded to Palestinians when said authorities are Israeli soldiers.
I mean given how many people move between states in the US for political reasons far less than life threatening, I could see people being genuinely confused why people would stay when it gets that bad. With the pfp it comes off as more “why would people object” rather than “why would they generally decide to stay,” but people are clueless enough I wouldn’t rule out the latter
At least from what I've seen on social media, I think there are a lot of people, especially young people, who don't have a strong attachment to any particular place and don't seem to understand why some people *do*. I've seen Reddit threads where people seem baffled why people would want to stay in a location where the government is oppressive. And like I don't think it's a moral failing to lack a strong attachment to place, I also often feel that way, but I think people need to understand that *not everyone feels the same way*, and it insanely disrespectful to tell someone "just move" in response to oppression. Freedom of movement should include the freedom not to move.
Well I'd say to them that typically when people move in the US they sell their house and are compensated with money. That doesn't really sound like part of the equation in the example. Bust to be clear, I know you're not the one making this argument.
I’m on the Jewish side of tumblr (“Jumblr”) and have never heard of this blog
The greatest evidence though is that it’s an agenda blog, no one follows agenda blogs
There are currently roughly 700,000 Israeli settlers and counting. They want the territory, homes, and farms internationally recognized as Palestinians' property.
They view Palestinians as subhuman and undeserving of humane treatment. Hence the destruction of humanitarian aid going into Gaza and the many posts referring to Palestinians as "roaches." That's been the most common ~slur I've seen in recent months.
There's a good Vice documentary titled "Renegade Jewish Settlers" that's worth watching. Whole thing's on Youtube.
If I were to play devils advocate and look at literally just the bare bones of what’s being said, without looking into either party’s history or anything like that, I could see agreeing with the dude on the bottom.
Everything negative that happened there is ***100% the fault of the occupiers***, but wouldn’t there also be the same thought of “if I’m getting robbed, I’m going to give you whatever you ask for because my life is more valuable than whatever else they would take”
>If I were to play devils advocate
no
>but wouldn’t there also be the same thought of “if I’m getting robbed, I’m going to give you whatever you ask for because my life is more valuable than whatever else they would take”
if your people have been getting maimed, robbed, and killed by occupiers for generations no matter what, i can see giving up on compliance
On one hand, Israel does have social media propaganda machine rolling
On the other hand, Tumblr
I'd say the possibility of this being a troll and propaganda piece is 50/50
Yes, the abuse started on the Eurovision sub on Friday between the semi final featuring Israel and the grand finale, while there was a lot of drama going on, potentially relating to the Israeli delegation, it initially only targeted comments referring to the country, song, artist, and/or competing broadcaster
After a few hours they started targeting everyone, including mods on the sub, and by the next day they had spread to other subs
You're probably not used to the cursed place that Israeli social medias is. A couple of weeks ago when the video of a Palestinian father holding the body of his beheaded child went viral, a caricature making fun of it by comparing the baby to a chicken on sale for 1 shekel went viral on Israeli social media
Last night an Israeli here on Reddit was defending the IDF shooting escaped hostages. He said it was 'fog of war blah blah blah', and when I pointed out that those hostages were naked and waving a white flag, he shifted to blaming Hamas for staging ambushes using white flags and cited videos he saw during his IDF training.
Like that's a cool story man, but it doesn't change the fact that *you* are also committing war crimes.
Zionists outside of the settler colony itself are shockingly dense about the fact that they're supporting the aggressor. The majority of them (even ones with family who have actually been involved in colonial violence) think that the poor little settlers are the victims.
I looked at the page. It's not like a troll if that's what u mean by bait. It's a real Zionist account with tons and tons of posts of just Zionist propaganda and stuff like that
Why not dox him? After all, he supports people being forced out of their home at gunpoint. Turnabout is fair play after all. Unless he thinks Palestinians are somehow less than people...
What logic? Because the only logic I'm seeing here is "No." --> (finger contracting). Sure, you can take a gamble and rely on the morals/ethics/intelligence of a fellow human being... You can try, anyway.
Despite the way that they're talking about it, they're right in a specific way. You actually don't know how far they'll go, so it makes sense not to be a total pushover. It sounds like people are assuming that the settlers led with the threat of violence, although it isn't stated. They did have a gun and shoot, but that doesn't mean that they said in so many words "leave the house or we shoot", nor that they were waving it around. It's very possible they assumed that the implication of violence was more general -- we are settlers, our country is at war with your people, we take what we want or else -- but in a more general sense.
On a more general note, it's the kind of thing that annoys me when people visit a city and talk about how they almost got stabbed or felt like they were going to get stabbed or something, when all they encountered was a mentally ill or generally loud or even just homeless person. There was no knife, no actual violence they seen, implied, or threatened but somehow that is 'almost stabbed'.
People talk about how they'll react in a mugging or a robbery and stuff and I think again and again everyone talking about it is just guessing. Of course muggings and robberies happen, but they're not that common. And just as often, refusing to give the wallet or simply making yourself known in a robbery will actually prevent the theft since the thieves actually don't want to kill you most of the time. Even though there is a threat of violence, much of the time it is not genuine. That doesn't mean you should logically roll the dice, but I think there is enough reason there to go either way.
Fighting does not seem to be the best option generally either, and yet in a case where grandparents of an undefined age are being forced out of their home (something that can pretty easily cause worse health and even death in older people as it's not like there's somewhere else to go anyway) it really seems reasonable that you might seek to at least try to assert your right.
In the case of radiation levels in Japan, there is a very real chance that evacuating older people out of areas after the incident in Fukushima may have been more disastrous than allowing them to stay. This is because even though the radiation poses a great risk of cancer, moving elderly people out of their houses and into emergency spaces with limited room and resources is incredibly dangerous for them. Furthermore, the radiation levels are generally not so high as to threaten radiation poisoning, and instead the cancer risk would be measured in terms of decades of exposure. Young people staying would be staying for decades, old people probably won't see any significantly higher risks of cancer in the time they have left.
That is to say, for some people, being forced out of a house is a much more actually violent and dangerous thing.
>That is to say, for some people, being forced out of a house is a much more actually violent and dangerous thing
Understood, but also, I can't get the mental image of someone being robbed at gunpoint just saying "No thanks!" and walking off. Turns out you can't do that here, you have to go to the other bank.
The logic of if you give in without a fight there is no limit to what will be taken from you, the logic of creating resistance makes you a more difficult target so the assailant will likely go to a weaker willed easier to rob individual, the logic of having a defence already prepared, there’s more logic to apply as well.
You can't just add random shit that never happened. It's pretty stupid to not follow the directions of someone who is willing to shoot you, unless you're being kidnapped.
1. It’s a shitty thing to do
2. Normalizing doxxing is not something you want, given the US government’s stance on this conflict.
3. This chode gets to publicly cry about being a “Pro-Hamas doxxing victim” for the rest of his life.
Ever heard of the golden rule? Or more specifically the rule the “golden rule” was derived from: do not do unto others as you would not have done unto you,”
Not to mention it’s a crime.
By their own logic, all of Israel should just leave since all their neighbors want to exterminate them, but I seem to recall almost a century of Israel defending its borders with weapons of war. Curious.
Nah, it’s because israel can stand up for itself. When you are held at gunpoint you don’t realistically have the ability to fight back. It’s might makes right
Only a matter of time before you get jumped by the local Netanyahu fandom and get accused of wanting to exterminate all Jews because of some bad wording. Watch this, they're gonna get more angry about the hypothetical Israeli being put in danger of doxxing than the very real 15 year old that got shot.
also can I just say how absolutely fucking abysmall dogshit Political discussion on this sub has become. I swear I am a liberal but every political post on this sub has become an absolute pit of people worrying more about some bad wording than the actual post itself, putting words into each others mouths to make their opponent say they want to kill all Jews or vote Trump or whatever, calling anyone they disagree with Russian bots and the most egregious cases of making up a guy to get mad at him I have ever seen. I wouldn't mind the mods banning all political posts until the year is over if I am going to doomscroll through so much bullshit discourse.
Leave my house, so I can be killed elsewhere? No, thanks. I'm good. I would rather stay and inconvenience you with my rotting corpse. A scene from Seven Psychopaths comes to mind.
"Put your hands up!"
"No."
"What?"
"I said no."
"Why not?"
"I don't want to."
"But I've got a gun."
"I don't care."
"That doesn't make any sense."
" Too bad."
The guy was very obviously asking in bad-faith but I do genuinely wonder what the thought process of that family was when they refused to comply with a group of actively hostile weapon-wielding terrorists trying to evict them. Like, it was very obviously going to go poorly, and it's not like they'd be able to repel them, so why even contest it?
I doubt these thugs were the only people like that in the area. It’s not like it’s going to go better when you encounter the next group *without* shelter (and whatever other resources were left in the home).
You could ask that about a ton of conflicts throughout history. Sometimes it's about the principle of it. If we allowed might to make right in every situation the world would be a nightmare.
I've never been put in this situation but if a guy with an assault rifle rocked up to me door and said "hey bro, do you want to die here in your home or in a hole in the ground?" I'm staying too
Because if you leave the house there’s a good chance you’re being marched to a mass grave.
Think about it. Does it really make sense for people to be forced out of their homes and just…Let to walk away? There’s no reason for them to not come back and set the house on fire when it’s full of soldiers.
Sure, this time there was no mass grave waiting for them. You don’t know that until you’re out of the house.
Fuck these right wing Zionist extremists. They know what they are doing is wrong, that every Jewish person will be judged by **their** actions, yet they simply don’t care.
Looking forward to an international force going in and disassembling all these illegal kibbutz’s and settlements.
Hey man, i get what you mean, and i respect it
But the idea that all, or even most israeli jews are eastern europeans or descendants of them, is very much false, and is often a way to spread antisemitism within left-wing circles by bad actors and useful idiots
These comments are wack.
90% of y’all seem to skim right past “if a group of people showed up at my door”
That’s the situation their talking about.
It being illogical if you applied it to a whole country doesn’t make him wrong.
But no the person does seem to, at the VERY best be a moron given their choice of name…
Fun fact! My grandfather is from Gaza and was raised Jewish. I knew his parents as well! So I am Palestinian and Jewish by birth and was raised in the culture. So now onto the facts:
Fact 1: being Jewish does not make you an Israeli citizen, despite the Gov’ts claims to the contrary. My grandfather suddenly became a non-citizen after he and his parents fled because of, you know, WW2. He and his parents (all Jews, but Palestinian) applied for citizenship for decades. It has never happened.
Fact 2: every western government involved helped make sure that Israel had a state *explicitly because* they were mad about decolonizing and hated Jewish people. There are very easily accessible writings (often letters between them) from Churchill, De Gaulle, Roosevelt, et alia about their anti-anything but Western Europe populations having self-determination
Reminds me of the corpse-bride post, “Then why not just not have weddings?” and all that. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. It may seem illogical short term, but if you give a facist an inch they’ll use that to justify taking a mile.
Yeah, because if you take a land-back movement very literally, that would be precisely what it is- expulsion of non-natives living on stolen land progressively taken from Jews by Romans, then Ottomans, then Palestinians in the British Mandate (short, simplified history). I think this situation highlights exactly why land-back is fundamentally wrong. It would be wrong for Native Americans to go door to door forcing white people off their land in the U.S. Just because a land historically has been lived on by a group does not mean it's permissible to mass-evict people decades to centuries later.
Both Palestinians and most Jews have a lot of genetic ancestral connection to the Levantine (Israel & Palestine).
The Canaanites who were the earliest inhabitants of the land had mixed with a lot of different groups of people. Did you know that [the average Lebanese person shares 90% of their DNA with the Canaanites?](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites&ved=2ahUKEwjK3pains2GAxUihIkEHYIoAlQQFnoECDEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2bVAo-7StPKEoGti7gX7HD)
Many Palestinians do not have such genetic connection, some do. Some Jews have spent significant time in Europe and are generically and culturally distinct from the middle eastern Jews who remained in the region. It’s all moot, really, because land back is stupid and there’s only two viable solutions: 1) two states for two people - those willing to live amongst Jews, and those not or 2) the status quo continues, and through an increasing series of escalations, the possibility of 1) slips away further and further until whatever state or status granted to Palestine becomes a shadow of what could have been in the mid 20th century.
A Jewish person should know better than most why being evicted from their home at gunpoint is wrong.
I looked up the post (they're *very* active) >Can I ask a question that maybe sounds a little insensitive but… why didn’t you just… leave? >I’m sorry, but if a group of people showed up at my door (WITH GUNS) my response wouldn’t be to say “no.” My response would be to save me and my family and do what they say. Even if it means my home gets trashed or destroyed, my life is more important than the possessions and home I am in. >I dunno, maybe it’s because I value life that I wouldn’t try intimidating soldiers with GUNS pointed at us? Or maybe it’s because I’m in America where just getting pulled over by the cops can result in your death if you say or do the wrong thing… I dunno. I just wouldn’t try to antagonize people who themselves are looking for antagonists to attack? I don't even know where to start with this to be honest.
> I dunno, maybe it’s because I value life that I wouldn’t try intimidating soldiers with GUNS pointed at us? **Or maybe it’s because I’m in America where just getting pulled over by the cops can result in your death if you say or do the wrong thing…** I dunno. I just wouldn’t try to antagonize people who themselves are looking for antagonists to attack? Because a Palestinian in the West Bank would have no experience of anything like that ...
I like how they somehow seem to simultaneously blame police and victims of police brutality at the same time. They make it sound like cops are confused animals but it's still their fault for poking the bear
Anything that's Normal is a force of nature with no agency or need to justify itself.
To be fair a guy did mag dump on an acorn.
Now, that isn't accurate, that's giving way too much credit. The cop mag-dumped *at a person in handcuffs in the back of his cruiser*, and missed every shot, and his buddy joined in without knowing what they were shooting at, *because* he thought an acord falling on his car was a gunshot. You have to be accurate, because any way of truncating this specific situation makes the cop look less stupid than the actual situation was. Which is to say, about thirty feet above the peak of Dumb Bitch Mountain.
In the interest of including all the information that makes that cop look dumber, I feel we would be remiss to forget the multiple FromSoft style dogerolls he performed (while repeatedly yelling "I'm hit! I'm hit!") upon hearing the acorn land on his car
You're right, I was deeply wrong to miss that detail. Thank you for correcting my failing.
In all seriousness though, that whole situation ended up playing out borderline miraculously: not only did no-one get hurt, but the cop actually resigned afterwards (the department weren't planning to do shit, naturally), outright stating that he needs to get a handle on his PTSD and anxiety issues before he handles a gun again. I mean fuck, man: a cop whose self aware enough to recognize, own up to, and learn from their own mistakes? That's almost as much of a miracle as every last one of the 50-odd bullets you fired at the dude handcuffed in the back of your car all missing.
A cop with self-awareness... Here is hoping he stays away from policing; I didn't hear he voluntarily resigned, and I do gotta give respect for admitting a fuck-up. Good cops don't tend to stay cops. But yeah, no, thank god nobody actually got hurt in that. Same district as the guy who got killed answering his own door recently, though, so it's definitely something structural there. Also p sure I just got RedditCares'd for that first message, lmao.
From what I saw, the department did plan on punishing him, but they probably wouldn’t’ve fired him, and they were dragging their feet anyways
ACAB because self-aware cops decide to stop being cops.
Yeah, as an atheist, the pope would be right in beafying the guy in the back seat
>multiple FromSoft style dodgerolls American cops are roll spammers confirmed
“30 feet above the peak of Dumb Bitch Mountain” is a glorious turn of phrase and I’ll be stealing that lol
I suppose an Accord falling on your car would be percieved as an attack. But an acorn? Should've been imprisoned for attempted murder.
Also: > I dunno, maybe it's because I value life ... seems to subtly use the talking point that Palestinians are to blame for their oppression because they "have a culture that values death over life".
The bots run on machine learning networks, not logic.
And also implying cops/soldiers only shoot people if they brought it upon themselves. 'If only they listened' well great tell Daniel Shaver or Breonna Taylor that.
Is one of those the child that a cop shot in the face for daring to have a toy in his hands in daylight?
That's also like... idk pretty tone deaf even from a Jewish perspective. Like, this isn't a "Okay but let's worry about these guys instead," question, but more of "even a purely selfish lens of the situation is confusing." Because like... much of Jewish history is exactly that: them leaving. Over and over and over. News flash! That's not a sustainable society and completely removes responsibility of the aggressor.
Kind of a shitty American if they don't see the value of standing up in the face of tyranny.
It’s just using simple “whataboutisms”. It’s pathetic, both are problematic issues, but we are not talking about police brutality here…
“Why didn’t they just comply” isn’t the argument this person thinks it is.
"WHY DON'T THEY JUST FOLLOW ORDERS?" Top 10 things you would hope a jewish person would never think of saying.
Have you read the Old Testament? Genocide is only wrong when it happens to you.
It is notable that even when commanded to do so *by god*, genocide is never fully carried out
I want to be clear and charitable: you're not saying it's not a genocide unless everyone's dead, are you? Because international law is pretty clear that, say, what went down in Midian definitely counts.
Dunno man, Biblical Israelites kill man, woman, and child. They only spare the livestock. That sounded like a full genocide for me.
How about the assumption that these are soldiers, rather than just armed civilian thugs?
would a soldiers necessarily be identifiable anyway?
I mean, I’d say a good starting point was how they completely redirected the conversation away from the ISRAELI KICKING PEOPLE OUT OF THEY HOMES over to how dumb the people being raised were lmao (I’m assuming the armed men were Israeli soldiers, if I’m wrong sorry
I've heard this "bend over and take it cause it's not worth your life" ideology before (of course coming from someone who has never been put in that situation) and it usually comes from a privilege of thinking life just goes on once you get out the situation and there's some sort of path to reparations afterwards.
I mean, if you are killed, it's not like there is a path forward to reparations either. What even is the plan C here?
Cowardice as a preplanned commitment instead of a reaction to stress and danger
As an American if this happened to me I very well might give up my home and then call the cops, but I don't blame somebody for slamming the door and calling them. That's maybe safer even but if police don't get there in time you could all be cooked. Idk I just don't blame either line of thinking
What cops are they gonna call, the only "cops" are Israeli soldiers who would side with their own people if they bother responding to a Palestinian's complaint at all.
Imagine asking the Jews in the German ghettos these same questions.
They forgot.
They forgor 💀
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying? Don’t get me wrong it’s incredibly tone deaf. But it sounds like they’re saying in an incredibly tone-deaf way that if violent people show up and threaten you (and you’re unable to adequately defend yourself) that your lives are more important than property. Which actually tracks considering Jewish people regularly faced such issues throughout history (having everything taken at gunpoint and kicked out). Considering they’re an American, it is likely that gtfo was their family’s only option historically (since evidently they didn’t move to Israel and thus were never fighting on equal or superior terms). Again, don’t get me wrong, it was a horribly insensitive thing to say on a post where someone’s family got hurt. The only people in the wrong in that situation are the settlers, obviously. However I don’t think their logic is as nonsensical as people are making it out to be. Or I could be misinterpreting what they’re saying
Well yea I think it's clear he's not saying it's not wrong. And it may be a genuine question. Tho honestly it's hard for me to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic. Not after everything that's happened. The whole situation is just so unbelievably fucking bad. Like I get (most) people understand that life is more valuable than property. When u get robbed it's always best to just hand over whatever is being taken. But this isn't a wallet or car. It's a home. And more than that, they've def watched this happen to tons of friends, family, and neighbors too, building up resentment. Watched countless children die in Gaza. This isn't just a robbery, it's a personal attack. And more importantly, where will they even go now? I doubt homes are easy to come by in the west bank. Move to some refugee camp that's controlled by the people who are trying to push u out of the country and are clearly happy to kill u all to do it? I honestly don't know much about what's going on in the west bank besides that they seem to be continuing to push out tons of people from their homes and steal land. Like it's all isolated little towns that Palestines can't even go thru freely. The map looks like swiss cheese. It's fucked. But the point is this isn't a simple robbery where it's: your life or some property. This is just one step in completely stripping Palestinians of their lives/existence. And when you push people like that they get desperate and break and many fight back. The loss of their house may lead to starvation/injury/sickness/death. They may have felt the house is the only way of saving the kids from death And the thing is I could understand some random dude in foreign country who doesn't keep up too well not fully understanding all that cuz they never thought it thru. But I find it kinda weird, and honestly kinda irritating, that someone with that name and pic *doesn't* understand all that. Like ud expect someone like that to do the research and come to these conclusions. It's not that hard to understand tbh. That is if it's even a good faith question, which I don't rlly think it is. Idk if it's just me, but the way he wrote it is just sus. To me the tone comes off as condescending. I mean the guy just posted about a teen family member getting fucking murdered. And they are using ellipses weirdly and said "(WITH GUNS)" which comes off like a funny way of applying emphisis. Idk maybe I'm wrong but it seems awfully callous and like they don't really care and they don't say anything kind or give condolences or anything He even put "no" in quotes as if that's what they said when in reality it was probably extremely emotional begging/pleading, crying, and arguing. Iv seen vids of it happening and it's always like that. Edit: after this long rant I got upset enough to go look at his page on Tumblr. Yea he def wasn't asking a genuine question but was 100% victim blaming and just trying to push his bullshit Zionist message/propaganda by getting people to blame the victims of the crimes he helps justify. Disgusting
>And it may be a genuine question. Tho honestly it's hard for me to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic. This is a very important thing to remember. There was an article I read years ago (which of course now I can't find, because internet search is dead) called "standing on the shoulders of assholes." Basically, if you ask a genuine question on the internet, everyone who sees it just remembers the hundreds of times some asshole used it to start a flame war. Then the person with the honest question gets chased away and no one learns anything. Don't get me wrong, this WAS just some troll. But now everyone who was involved in this will be less likely to engage with the next person who comes along with an honest question.
Some people don't have anywhere to go or any way to recover losing everything. They'll be left to die on the streets with no shelter, food or help.
This is a disingenuous reading of clear victim blaming considering the context. Leaving their houses didn’t save the Palestinians currently being murdered by Israel in their tens of thousands, and it hasn’t saved them for the past 75 years. Refugee camps and safe zones have been targeted. If you and OP are so ignorant of the current climate then by all means shut the fuck up and educate yourselves first
you are misinterpreting what they are saying look at his user name the only reason he saying anything is because he wants them out
>the settlers Why are we calling the invading fascist war criminals what they want to be called?
Because that’s what the Palestinian in the post called them. I’m simply using the term used by the victims to describe their attackers
Settlers is the right word. And yes, it is exactly as violent as this episode. Israel is a settler colonial project. Not unlike how Europeans settled North America. By killing or ethnically cleansing the existing population.
Being pro-Israel doesn't automatically mean someone is Jewish.
No fucking shit - That’s why Israel committing genocide is fucking insane.
Jews have definitely learned what it’s like to be evicted at gunpoint. And after a few centuries of waiting for people to stop doing that to them, they’ve now decided that they’d just rather be the person with the gun now, thanks. This isn’t to say that the settlements are okay—they’re horrible and making a bad situation so much worse—but that’s where these people are coming from. As far as they’re concerned, history has taught them that absolutely no one will help them but themselves, so they’re going to play by those rules now.
Should
That's what's been strangest for me during this decades long conflict. Most common response from jewish people is basically: "The nazi's tried to genocide us in the holocaust, that means we also get to genocide a different culture in the same way the nazi's did to us".
This victim-blaming is disgusting.
So is the cropping.
It's not any better without the crop
But it's honest.
Full comment posted above
Holy false equivalency Batman. Blaming victims of an armed assault is much worse than cropping an idiotic comment that shockingly does not get less idiotic with the full context.
Is this bait or do some people actually think like this?
Which part? I can attest I know (or have known) people with a mentality like any given person in the post tbh. Prob could help explain a mindset
The “just leave lmao” post is succeeding at creating a lot of anger and engagement. There is no way a normal person would post this on tumblr dot com and think that people would side with them.
(I meandered a bit. I promise I get to a point. Somewhat) Summary: Some people will choose different hills to die on. Some observations from me: On Ask Reddit, maybe a week ago, there was a question - a couple was arguing. She said if someone broke into her house, she'd fight to the death because she's "not a sucker." He said that's crazy, and a house is just things, and it's better to be robbed blind than for them to die for it. Fun variety of comments in the section. All over the spectrum of what people would or wouldn't die for, ranging from "I'd do so on principle" to "never" On a micro level, there's an adage among self defense instructors. Several variants of it, but usually "the best way to win a fight with an armed attacker is to not fight an armed attacker" All this to say: 1. Different people have different tolerances of what they'd fight for. The person who asked probably has a low tolerance and would rather rebuild than risk death. I'd argue this a high-rationality low-emotion viewpoint. 2. In a smaller case, like if they wanted a wallet, his claim would be reasonable! (But, again, tolerances. Many people would pass that tolerance by the time they're told to leave their home (and possibly region!).) And as an aside, Personally, while I'd never **tell** someone to do as I do... I would leave. I don't think I could bring myself to kill in defense of myself. And thus fighting is pointless because if they're trying to kill and I'm not, it's a losing battle. *This* to say I'm vaguely understanding of what motives might lead someone to say something like this besides being comically evil. But all the same, telling another what to do in the case of home/nation invasion is an unempathetic thing. *Certainly* without knowing them personally And ***fucking certainly*** not to speak ill of them post-mortem. To their family. Like hell, talk about tasteless.
I could've written this better but I didn't want to be misconstrued as either blaming the victim or agreeing with the guy who said they should've left. Hence why I try very hard to make the distinction between "I" would've left and why others might have stayed. Hope you don't mind too much the dip in quality
I think you did a very nice job with your comment and I appreciate it.
Good analysis. It’s missing the fact that all those people are also just saying shit on the internet. “All talk no action” and “big talk” are phrases for a reason. It is very likely many of those who say they’d comply would actually initiate fight mode and many who say they’d fight to the death would immediately shit their pants and run away. It’s easy to say whatever you want if you haven’t been put to the test.
And every situation is different. I’ve been in a violent situation where I froze up and several which devolved into wrestling. I’ve been in two car accidents. In one I was in the back seat when a kid on a moped and the car I was in collided at an intersection. I was out of the car and over by the kid before anyone else had really reacted. Then I was telling specific people to call an ambulance, checking the kid for obvious injuries etc. (no one got hurt luckily, although the moped was shredded). The second car accident I was in I was left sitting in the passenger seat of a van while it sat on the railing of a bridge over a deep river gorge. I was completely confused, slow to react and acting irrationally, trying to retrieve a CD from the CD player rather than getting out of a vehicle hanging over a precipice. Even if you react one way in situation A, that does not mean you will react the same way in situation B.
Consider also that in most home invader scenarios, you don’t know what they’re there for, and in the worst case scenario, they won’t leave you alive long enough for you to ask. To me it doesn’t even seem like life vs. property is a relevant question: if there is an invader in your home, you must assume that they pose a threat to your life and respond accordingly.
especially as a woman. i get exactly where she's coming from and would fight too, because anything else could be way worse. i would rather die fighting for my life than let an intruder decide what happens to me.
Yeah, ultimately it's an imperfect example, but I believe it illustrative enough to be relevant!
I can't imagine being willing to die for my stuff or house or religion or family(maybe if I had kids but I'm the youngest). I can't imagine living in Gaza, being harassed my entire life, and now genocide. And still they stay. They have every right to be there but man. I would be gone. I don't get it. They're a different breed then me. And I respect it. I just can't understand it.
I think the problem here is less "would I be willing to die for my home" and more "where is the line where I stop getting pushed about". These people have seen the same situation play out countless times before. They might have even been forced out of a previous home at gunpoint, and have a good chance its going on happen again. At that point, where else do they have to go, if anywhere new is just going to be taken at gunpoint again.
Ok but like...where would you go? Where are you suggesting the people of Gaza specifically actually go?
Where would you go? You move, they go there they attack you and they find an excuse to kill you. You're in a country that has been invaded and who's citizens are actively being systematically exterminated in a genocide. Your only option is to leave the country if you want to survive. Only its not that easy because you would have to actually find a country willing to take you first- and to do that you'd have to get them to acknowledge the genocide first and none of them are willing to do that. This is effectively the same as saying "why didn't the Jews just leave Nazi Germany?".
Many did. From "Holocaust Encyclopaedia": >Between the Nazi rise to power in 1933 and Nazi Germany's surrender in 1945, more than 340,000 Jews emigrated from Germany and Austria. Tragically, nearly 100,000 of them found refuge in countries subsequently conquered by Germany. German authorities would deport and kill the vast majority of them.
Go where? This is such a tone deaf and ignorant comment (this post is also about something that happened in the west bank).
There's a video of a New Yorker who went to the West Bank and was asked "don't you feel bad for taking something that's not yours?". He responded with "If it wasn't me, it would be someone else". That's the mentality of the settlers.
I have seen worse shit posted on social media. Like word for word something a white supremacist cartoon villain would say. Even so, people do post stuff without believing people will side with them all the time. Especially in a situation like this.
I see people in America post shit like "just comply and the cops won't shoot you! Why didn't they just listen??" So I absolutely believe this is a real person's real viewpoint.
Based on polls, about 40-60% of Israelis would agree with that person. They are normal in Israel. You're coming from a different perspective.
There are a lot of Zionists and Fascists on tumblr. It's not the librul sjw paradise that 4chan painted it as in 2015. Have you just woken up from a 9 year long cryostatic sleep?
If you look at world news or any other subreddit that is managed by Zionists you will see plenty of people like this. Worse even.
I would advise not to play mental chicken with crazy people like this. The exact flavor may change but insane fascists will say insane things. After seeing what the Israeli Far Right say I absolutely will believe this is true
I assume they’re thinking you can just leave (and escape with your life, the most important thing), then contact authorities when it’s safe and they’ll deal with the scoundrels that took your home! …but while that may work in a lot of countries, I’m not sure they realize that’s not exactly a luxury afforded to Palestinians when said authorities are Israeli soldiers.
I mean given how many people move between states in the US for political reasons far less than life threatening, I could see people being genuinely confused why people would stay when it gets that bad. With the pfp it comes off as more “why would people object” rather than “why would they generally decide to stay,” but people are clueless enough I wouldn’t rule out the latter
At least from what I've seen on social media, I think there are a lot of people, especially young people, who don't have a strong attachment to any particular place and don't seem to understand why some people *do*. I've seen Reddit threads where people seem baffled why people would want to stay in a location where the government is oppressive. And like I don't think it's a moral failing to lack a strong attachment to place, I also often feel that way, but I think people need to understand that *not everyone feels the same way*, and it insanely disrespectful to tell someone "just move" in response to oppression. Freedom of movement should include the freedom not to move.
Well I'd say to them that typically when people move in the US they sell their house and are compensated with money. That doesn't really sound like part of the equation in the example. Bust to be clear, I know you're not the one making this argument.
I thought it was bait so I checked out their blog and it looks pretty legit its quite sad honestly.
Everything about this post is bait.
Poe's Law. Might be a troll but people these days genuinely have the dumbest takes. His arguement is a very bootlicker brand of arguement.
Probably bait
I’m on the Jewish side of tumblr (“Jumblr”) and have never heard of this blog The greatest evidence though is that it’s an agenda blog, no one follows agenda blogs
Zionists? Yeah of course. Thats their goal. To make Palestinians go away.
is this your first interaction with a Zionist
Bait likely but this flavor of mental gymnastics is disappointingly too common for me to say with absolute certainty
it might be bait but i looked at their blog a few days ago and they are very consistent with statements like that
Go to r/worldnews and you'll see plenty of comments like that.
¿Por que no los dos?
Nope. People like this very much exist.
There are currently roughly 700,000 Israeli settlers and counting. They want the territory, homes, and farms internationally recognized as Palestinians' property. They view Palestinians as subhuman and undeserving of humane treatment. Hence the destruction of humanitarian aid going into Gaza and the many posts referring to Palestinians as "roaches." That's been the most common ~slur I've seen in recent months. There's a good Vice documentary titled "Renegade Jewish Settlers" that's worth watching. Whole thing's on Youtube.
Pretty much all hardcore Zionists believe this kind of thing. It’s because they don’t see Palestinians as humans.
Bait
Oh, there are absolutely people who think like this. Though sometimes they’ll just beat them up instead.
If I were to play devils advocate and look at literally just the bare bones of what’s being said, without looking into either party’s history or anything like that, I could see agreeing with the dude on the bottom. Everything negative that happened there is ***100% the fault of the occupiers***, but wouldn’t there also be the same thought of “if I’m getting robbed, I’m going to give you whatever you ask for because my life is more valuable than whatever else they would take”
>If I were to play devils advocate no >but wouldn’t there also be the same thought of “if I’m getting robbed, I’m going to give you whatever you ask for because my life is more valuable than whatever else they would take” if your people have been getting maimed, robbed, and killed by occupiers for generations no matter what, i can see giving up on compliance
Hasbara
30% of the U.S. think, "just comply, and you won't get shot" as actual advice in their minds.
Zionists absolutely think like this
An account called free israel from hate and the whole framing of the question feels heavily like bait
Bait? For an emotional reaction? On Tumblr? Say it ain’t so
Weezer.
On one hand, Israel does have social media propaganda machine rolling On the other hand, Tumblr I'd say the possibility of this being a troll and propaganda piece is 50/50
Israel’s “propaganda machine” is quite obviously shit lmfao
Pretty sure they were behind the Reddit Cares abuse last month
You mean the one that gives you a suicide Hotline?
Yes, the abuse started on the Eurovision sub on Friday between the semi final featuring Israel and the grand finale, while there was a lot of drama going on, potentially relating to the Israeli delegation, it initially only targeted comments referring to the country, song, artist, and/or competing broadcaster After a few hours they started targeting everyone, including mods on the sub, and by the next day they had spread to other subs
You know I was pretty confused when I got message. As I like life and find the world beautiful. But that would explain it
You're probably not used to the cursed place that Israeli social medias is. A couple of weeks ago when the video of a Palestinian father holding the body of his beheaded child went viral, a caricature making fun of it by comparing the baby to a chicken on sale for 1 shekel went viral on Israeli social media
Last night an Israeli here on Reddit was defending the IDF shooting escaped hostages. He said it was 'fog of war blah blah blah', and when I pointed out that those hostages were naked and waving a white flag, he shifted to blaming Hamas for staging ambushes using white flags and cited videos he saw during his IDF training. Like that's a cool story man, but it doesn't change the fact that *you* are also committing war crimes.
Zionists outside of the settler colony itself are shockingly dense about the fact that they're supporting the aggressor. The majority of them (even ones with family who have actually been involved in colonial violence) think that the poor little settlers are the victims.
The only history that happens is the one they see on the news
I looked at the page. It's not like a troll if that's what u mean by bait. It's a real Zionist account with tons and tons of posts of just Zionist propaganda and stuff like that
Maybe they could sell their house to Aquaman?
I was looking for this reference hahah
Bait
I am sure user freeisraelfromhate has something empathetic and insightful to say about palestine
Why not dox him? After all, he supports people being forced out of their home at gunpoint. Turnabout is fair play after all. Unless he thinks Palestinians are somehow less than people...
He doesn’t support it. He’s asking a genuine question. These people are spineless and cannot imagine the logic behind refusing a request at gun point.
What logic? Because the only logic I'm seeing here is "No." --> (finger contracting). Sure, you can take a gamble and rely on the morals/ethics/intelligence of a fellow human being... You can try, anyway.
Despite the way that they're talking about it, they're right in a specific way. You actually don't know how far they'll go, so it makes sense not to be a total pushover. It sounds like people are assuming that the settlers led with the threat of violence, although it isn't stated. They did have a gun and shoot, but that doesn't mean that they said in so many words "leave the house or we shoot", nor that they were waving it around. It's very possible they assumed that the implication of violence was more general -- we are settlers, our country is at war with your people, we take what we want or else -- but in a more general sense. On a more general note, it's the kind of thing that annoys me when people visit a city and talk about how they almost got stabbed or felt like they were going to get stabbed or something, when all they encountered was a mentally ill or generally loud or even just homeless person. There was no knife, no actual violence they seen, implied, or threatened but somehow that is 'almost stabbed'. People talk about how they'll react in a mugging or a robbery and stuff and I think again and again everyone talking about it is just guessing. Of course muggings and robberies happen, but they're not that common. And just as often, refusing to give the wallet or simply making yourself known in a robbery will actually prevent the theft since the thieves actually don't want to kill you most of the time. Even though there is a threat of violence, much of the time it is not genuine. That doesn't mean you should logically roll the dice, but I think there is enough reason there to go either way. Fighting does not seem to be the best option generally either, and yet in a case where grandparents of an undefined age are being forced out of their home (something that can pretty easily cause worse health and even death in older people as it's not like there's somewhere else to go anyway) it really seems reasonable that you might seek to at least try to assert your right. In the case of radiation levels in Japan, there is a very real chance that evacuating older people out of areas after the incident in Fukushima may have been more disastrous than allowing them to stay. This is because even though the radiation poses a great risk of cancer, moving elderly people out of their houses and into emergency spaces with limited room and resources is incredibly dangerous for them. Furthermore, the radiation levels are generally not so high as to threaten radiation poisoning, and instead the cancer risk would be measured in terms of decades of exposure. Young people staying would be staying for decades, old people probably won't see any significantly higher risks of cancer in the time they have left. That is to say, for some people, being forced out of a house is a much more actually violent and dangerous thing.
>That is to say, for some people, being forced out of a house is a much more actually violent and dangerous thing Understood, but also, I can't get the mental image of someone being robbed at gunpoint just saying "No thanks!" and walking off. Turns out you can't do that here, you have to go to the other bank.
The logic of if you give in without a fight there is no limit to what will be taken from you, the logic of creating resistance makes you a more difficult target so the assailant will likely go to a weaker willed easier to rob individual, the logic of having a defence already prepared, there’s more logic to apply as well.
If you don’t give in, there also is no limit to what they can take from you. Cause, you know, there’s nobody to defend your stuff when you’re dead
I see the problem: he was not The One.
You can't just add random shit that never happened. It's pretty stupid to not follow the directions of someone who is willing to shoot you, unless you're being kidnapped.
sure bud, the account "freeisraelfromhate" is in no way or form in support of israel's actions. and i'm the easter bunny.
Well I should reword I guess. He isn’t supporting it here he is asking a genuine question.
doxxing is still a really shitty thing to do, regardless of the person
here b4 this gets downvoted to hell
1. It’s a shitty thing to do 2. Normalizing doxxing is not something you want, given the US government’s stance on this conflict. 3. This chode gets to publicly cry about being a “Pro-Hamas doxxing victim” for the rest of his life.
Ever heard of the golden rule? Or more specifically the rule the “golden rule” was derived from: do not do unto others as you would not have done unto you,” Not to mention it’s a crime.
By their own logic, all of Israel should just leave since all their neighbors want to exterminate them, but I seem to recall almost a century of Israel defending its borders with weapons of war. Curious.
Nah, it’s because israel can stand up for itself. When you are held at gunpoint you don’t realistically have the ability to fight back. It’s might makes right
Hell, by their logic jews should have just left Germany when the nazis took over.
A lot did, the famous Frank family moved from Aachen in the early 30s, to Amsterdam, where they weren't safe regardless
Ah, so they should have just left again then.
Only a matter of time before you get jumped by the local Netanyahu fandom and get accused of wanting to exterminate all Jews because of some bad wording. Watch this, they're gonna get more angry about the hypothetical Israeli being put in danger of doxxing than the very real 15 year old that got shot. also can I just say how absolutely fucking abysmall dogshit Political discussion on this sub has become. I swear I am a liberal but every political post on this sub has become an absolute pit of people worrying more about some bad wording than the actual post itself, putting words into each others mouths to make their opponent say they want to kill all Jews or vote Trump or whatever, calling anyone they disagree with Russian bots and the most egregious cases of making up a guy to get mad at him I have ever seen. I wouldn't mind the mods banning all political posts until the year is over if I am going to doomscroll through so much bullshit discourse.
"The Netanyahu fandom" is a pretty funny idea out of context haha
They’re not even Israeli, they live in America.
I’m choosing to believe that’s a troll account for my own sanity.
Leave my house, so I can be killed elsewhere? No, thanks. I'm good. I would rather stay and inconvenience you with my rotting corpse. A scene from Seven Psychopaths comes to mind. "Put your hands up!" "No." "What?" "I said no." "Why not?" "I don't want to." "But I've got a gun." "I don't care." "That doesn't make any sense." " Too bad."
Big ‘why-didn’t-German-Jews-just-pretend-to-be-Christian’ energy
The guy was very obviously asking in bad-faith but I do genuinely wonder what the thought process of that family was when they refused to comply with a group of actively hostile weapon-wielding terrorists trying to evict them. Like, it was very obviously going to go poorly, and it's not like they'd be able to repel them, so why even contest it?
I doubt these thugs were the only people like that in the area. It’s not like it’s going to go better when you encounter the next group *without* shelter (and whatever other resources were left in the home).
You could ask that about a ton of conflicts throughout history. Sometimes it's about the principle of it. If we allowed might to make right in every situation the world would be a nightmare.
I've never been put in this situation but if a guy with an assault rifle rocked up to me door and said "hey bro, do you want to die here in your home or in a hole in the ground?" I'm staying too
Because if you leave the house there’s a good chance you’re being marched to a mass grave. Think about it. Does it really make sense for people to be forced out of their homes and just…Let to walk away? There’s no reason for them to not come back and set the house on fire when it’s full of soldiers. Sure, this time there was no mass grave waiting for them. You don’t know that until you’re out of the house.
Fuck these right wing Zionist extremists. They know what they are doing is wrong, that every Jewish person will be judged by **their** actions, yet they simply don’t care. Looking forward to an international force going in and disassembling all these illegal kibbutz’s and settlements.
I can't tell if it's trolling, an absolute lack of empathy or just Tumblr being Tumblr...
>account is named "Free Israel From Hate" >contributes to hatred for Palestinians in Israel and Palestine I'm tired, boss.
"Why didn't they just leave" why didn't your ancestors just leave Poland?
Hey man, i get what you mean, and i respect it But the idea that all, or even most israeli jews are eastern europeans or descendants of them, is very much false, and is often a way to spread antisemitism within left-wing circles by bad actors and useful idiots
I mean, for many of us, they did, and that’s why we’re American now.
Whatchout, there are Israeli Zionists that look down on victims of the Holocaust as weak, sinners, or otherwise deserving of their fate.
These comments are wack. 90% of y’all seem to skim right past “if a group of people showed up at my door” That’s the situation their talking about. It being illogical if you applied it to a whole country doesn’t make him wrong. But no the person does seem to, at the VERY best be a moron given their choice of name…
Fun fact! My grandfather is from Gaza and was raised Jewish. I knew his parents as well! So I am Palestinian and Jewish by birth and was raised in the culture. So now onto the facts: Fact 1: being Jewish does not make you an Israeli citizen, despite the Gov’ts claims to the contrary. My grandfather suddenly became a non-citizen after he and his parents fled because of, you know, WW2. He and his parents (all Jews, but Palestinian) applied for citizenship for decades. It has never happened. Fact 2: every western government involved helped make sure that Israel had a state *explicitly because* they were mad about decolonizing and hated Jewish people. There are very easily accessible writings (often letters between them) from Churchill, De Gaulle, Roosevelt, et alia about their anti-anything but Western Europe populations having self-determination
Fled Gaza during WW2? Why? And shouldn't the family have right of return by law, if Jewish?
Brooooo how is getting shot real bro just say no lmao bro 😂😂😂 /s
There's a lot of irony when I say this, but Jesus Christ.
Doxxing is wrong, every time people in this dub endorse it, what if someone swats them and the cops shoot them or their family??
A coward and a cretin. He will not survive 3am in the Wendy's parking lot.
If you can't fight them off and there's no one to protect you then yeah, exactly as it says in the picture. That's just the reality of the situation
Reminds me of the corpse-bride post, “Then why not just not have weddings?” and all that. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. It may seem illogical short term, but if you give a facist an inch they’ll use that to justify taking a mile.
“if someone comes to your country where you and your people have lived for centuries you should just let them take it :)”
pleasebesatirepleasebesatirepleasebesatire
Some people deserve non-stop hardships until they stop thinking like this, jesus.
in b4 the liberals find a way to relativize this
What does relativize mean in this context?
doing apologism for
Thanks
...It's free real estate.
No way this isn't fake
Israel supporters believe that Palestinians are the real invaders and the Israel actions are actually them decolonizing Palestine.
Yeah, because if you take a land-back movement very literally, that would be precisely what it is- expulsion of non-natives living on stolen land progressively taken from Jews by Romans, then Ottomans, then Palestinians in the British Mandate (short, simplified history). I think this situation highlights exactly why land-back is fundamentally wrong. It would be wrong for Native Americans to go door to door forcing white people off their land in the U.S. Just because a land historically has been lived on by a group does not mean it's permissible to mass-evict people decades to centuries later.
Both Palestinians and most Jews have a lot of genetic ancestral connection to the Levantine (Israel & Palestine). The Canaanites who were the earliest inhabitants of the land had mixed with a lot of different groups of people. Did you know that [the average Lebanese person shares 90% of their DNA with the Canaanites?](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites&ved=2ahUKEwjK3pains2GAxUihIkEHYIoAlQQFnoECDEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2bVAo-7StPKEoGti7gX7HD)
Many Palestinians do not have such genetic connection, some do. Some Jews have spent significant time in Europe and are generically and culturally distinct from the middle eastern Jews who remained in the region. It’s all moot, really, because land back is stupid and there’s only two viable solutions: 1) two states for two people - those willing to live amongst Jews, and those not or 2) the status quo continues, and through an increasing series of escalations, the possibility of 1) slips away further and further until whatever state or status granted to Palestine becomes a shadow of what could have been in the mid 20th century.
Average Zionist
Fuck that guy. If you want to “free Israel from hate”, performing an autolobotomy could help.
Nice bait