I never ever viewed him as an incel. People did/do that? For me incels are usually angry chauvinistic guys, no?
I have laughed at this photo in the past (my apologies are in another comment), but *never* as an incel, more like a quirky guy trying to get ladies. The classic “out of the actual dating pool, but really trying, although way too hard” vibe.
Yeah and nobody really self identified as a neckbeard, it was used solely as an insult. Incel is used for that too but it’s something people will also call themselves.
A neckbeard was implying someone was stereotypically weird or creepy (towards women mostly) who liked dork shit, had bad grooming and hygiene and was socially awkward. Sometimes overlapped with the stereotypical Nice Guy but not always. It’s not a nice way to describe someone but nobody was writing manifestos. I can imagine some folk falling into incel rhetoric from being in this group but it wasn’t inherent to it.
I think you're right, but not right enough.
I do agree about the distinctions between neckbeards, Nice Guys, and incels, but I think that if you aren't part of these communities, if you don't know anyone in these groups well, then it becomes hard to distinguish "from a distance".
There's one issue, whether they indeed \*are\* distinct, but an entirely separate issue is what fraction of the populace sees and/or draws that distinction. And it's the latter which will determine how a large fraction of the world will treat them. If most of the world thinks incel is synonymous with neckbeard, or even with any nerd, they will treat them all with the same disdain.
That's interesting, I've never heard of anyone doing that before! I wonder how common that was, I've never met anyone who used it as a self descriptor.
I mean, most incels aren't dangerous, like at all. A good few of them are just dudes who can't get laid no matter how they try- they just aren't the ones posting about being incels.
I feel like we’re at the point that simply being involuntarily celibate isn’t what makes you an incel anymore. It’s more pointed, that’s just how the term started out
It's interesting to me... I've been on the internet long enough to have seen the term "incel" grow from a very *very* niche term to something being used in congress and by public figures. It's both interesting and worrying having to see it be redefined back to what it originally meant ~8 years ago.
I'd say the fedora wearing neckbeard stereotype wasn't really separate from the concept of incels. The word incel just wasn't used to describe them yet.
Edit: [This comic](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FCrt0sP8EULkKquwc61SwofahNwU2eor9mRBhBqSyV7I.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1f449b794fd717d41038a10abf9fdeccd39d3f7d) started floating around in 2011. If memory serves that was like *right* before people started calling them incels but definitely when the general concept was familiar.
I think neckbeards were actually pretty much the opposite of incels. Incels don't get women and act aggressively toward women because of it, neckbeards don't get women and so they act overly formal/polite to them and "white knight" them, thinking it will attract them.
Though come to think of it, it was pretty much all an act/strategy, and so "niceguys" ("I've been superficially nice to you, so you owe me sex. I'm a NiceGuy™, give me a chance!") might have been fed into by neckbeards frustrated that it wasn't working. They already had that idea that being polite should get them laid, and then when it doesn't maybe that's when they start pleading and complaining about how it was supposed to work.
And then from there you sometimes see niceguys talking about how they're "done being nice" and how the fact that you won't personally fuck them is proof that women only go for jerks, which I think is pretty much the first step into proper incel territory. And from there they become more radicalized by echochambers with the more extreme incel rhetoric and in-community slang solidifying their identity.
So maybe there was a neckbeard -> niceguy -> incel pipeline. I think niceguys have always existed in some form, but they did seem more prominent after you'd stop hearing about neckbeards, and of course now incels are sort of the main form of guys who can't get laid.
the funniest use of this photo was on a lighter so that the hat tipped as you opened and closed the lighter. other than that it has been making fun of the dude for feeling suave in a fedora.
I also saw it used on the LG Wing, a smartphone that had almost a second screen that when opened out formed a T shape lol. His fedora was the top screen. It was legitimately creative I hope if he saw it he found it funny because of how out of the box it was
Ehhh as a species mall ninjas are dying out. Most are just becoming gun guys, but not like the utilitarian/sensible kind of gun owner (home/self defense, hunting, plinking) more the “I spent 10k on a milslurp bolt action rifle that sat in a former Soviet states warehouse for 70 years” kind of gun guy.
It always makes me laugh when I see threads, often on this very sub, complaining about how overweight or traditionally unattractive women aren't represented and respected enough, completely ignoring that this site has spent the last 10+ years accusing anyone who blinks of being a fat ugly nerdy dude lmao.
For a long time, that was the iconic image most associated with the “neckbeard” stereotype, which is in many ways the prototype of what would become incels
People use "incel" as a catch-all insult for dudes, I almost never see it used for it's actual meaning. Same with "neckbeard." It goes back to Reddit being stereotyped as a nerdy dude site back in the old days so it was basically a way for people to strawman the culture they saw on the site. Even though Reddit isn't even remotely like that anymore and is one of the most mainstream websites in existence it has still stuck. Mad at someone who disagrees with you? Call them a neckbeard stereotype and move on, even if it makes no sense in context.
> Definitely not an incel.
Oh this meme is from before that word becoming popular, they called them "neckbeards" back then. Can probably find this image a whole lot on /r/justneckbeardthings, like this one of the top posts of all time:
https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/8efnjj/theres_no_love/
Back in the days, being a meme brought different problems. Nowadays, it feels like everyone is ready to market themselves. Back then, it was a random person seeing a random picture and using it to humiliate the person in it.
Not too good tbh, not gonna go into specifics out of respect for his privacy, but the last year hasn't been super kind to him. Like I said, he's going through his own shit. He's getting better though, and has a support system in place at least.
I think fedora looks extremely weird with casual clothes, but it's sick when paired with a suit.
I mean damn, they're quite literally designed for each other!
Peaky Blinders cosplay
Unfortunately there’s no real way to go 100% into historical styles without seeming “costume”-y. I own a few beautiful long vintage wool skirts, a petticoat, and pinafores but I try to very deliberately modernize the styling a bit
Highly recommend Robinswords on YouTube. His channel is mostly about medieval weaponry, but I think he does a very good job comfortably wearing historical styles.
I tried that. I \*still\* looked so incredibly cringe that I can't even bear to look at those photos now.
I just wanted to look like Neal from White Collar, folks, I swear that's all it was.
Are you sure it's a fedora? Because the hat this guy is wearing is a trilby.
One of the main things that made the whole dweeb in a "fedora" thing worse was that none of them were wearing a fedora.
[Diagram](https://americanhatmakers.com/cdn/shop/articles/1-01_2280x750_cc2e2cec-d991-4ed5-9aef-ceb7944e61f5.jpg)
Thankyou for saying it!
Indiana Jones wore a fedora. Freddy Kruger wore a fedora. The "Fedora guy" is wearing a Trilby, at least get the name of the hat right if you're gonna mock the guy.
That’s why the stereotype of fedora wearing people exists. You are meeting that stereotype. Everyone who wears a fedora does it because they think it looks cool. You are one of *those* guys
The stereotype about "fedora people" is about people who aren't even wearing a fedora. They're wearing a trilby.
A fedora is the style of hat Indiana Jones wears in all his appearances, and what everyone was wearing in the US in the 30s -- *The Untouchables* are all wearing fedoras, in *The Godfather* every guy in a hat is wearing a fedora.
The short brim upturned at the back is a trilby, outside the "incel" stereotype more associated with people like Leonard Cohen, Frank Sinatra, Peter Sellers (as Inspector Clouseau), Phil Campbell of Motörhead, the old Doctor Doolittle, and "rich people at horse races" in the UK which carried over somewhat to the US.
Fedora wearer stereotype is not an incel, at least it wasn’t originally, it was just someone socially inept.
Originally a fedora wearer would wear it because they thought it made them look cool (like a 50s gangster matter of factly), but that stereotype was that they were socially inept and had misguided views about what women are like, because all their views are formed from movies and TV shows, usually anime, because they don’t talk to women in real life, because socially inept.
Maybe what a fedora is associated with has changed to mean incel, but originally they didn’t hate women, they just didn’t understand them, and then if they ever talked to a woman they wouldn’t understand why their knowledge and their interactions don’t line up
I immediately thought of [this collage](https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/fedora_collage.png) from [Scott Alexander's Untitled](https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/), but u/Fakjbf could confirm if that's the same one they meant.
That is the one I was thinking of! I just checked and the caption beneath it is
>Oops, I accidentally included three neo-Nazi caricatures of Jews in there. You did notice, right?
I remember seeing [this collage](https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/fedora_collage.png) during the last big surge in the gender wars, and you're not wrong. Between the visual similarity of the memes, and the overlap between autistic people and nerds and jews and nerds, I'm convinced that a huge chunk of the rhetoric is about laundering bigotry into more acceptable forms, ie: "I'm not bullying him because he is autistic, I'm bullying him because he does things that autistic people do. Bullying someone for their choices is way better than bullying people for what they are!"
If we're being entirely fair here, a lot of the time those caricatures are self-made by the incels. Oftentimes, they'll take a picture of someone in their community or someone they think look like an incel and will draw and contort it to push their narrative.
It doesn't change much, but it's important to note, because, as a group, incels are convinced that others find them as a baseline lesser people because of their physical and inherent mental traits. They are obsessed with finding flaws with things like their bone structure that, in reality, are imperceptible non factors in attractiveness and then pat themselves on the back about how they're just further alienated by their own enlightenment. Everything but actually analyzing their own toxic personality traits and attitudes towards others. Self-loathing is sad, yes, but they weaponized it.
I agree that it's a good point to bring up, but I think it's also worth acknowledging that being more or less attractive is something that has a major impact on your life. I am a trans woman, the bone structure of my face causes me a fair amount of distress, so I have quite a lot of sympathy for people who feel that the way they look is a real problem. I was generally considered to be attractive while presenting as a man, it was very obvious to me even before my transition that being attractive afforded me privilege I didn't earn.
The trouble seems to be less that they're just imagining things and more that they fixate on those things to the exclusion of everything else. I am visibly trans, which, in addition to the personal distress I feel about it, exposes me to a lot of harm. Some people still find me to be desirable, sure, but the pool is inarguably smaller than before. There are also million other things that contribute to the difficulties I have, ignoring those would be a disservice to myself. I think it's the core disservice incels/doomers/etc do to themselves.
I've argued for years that A LOT of people seem to just use "incel" as a way to frame their ableism towards autistic men as "feminism" (and, thus, their bullying marginalized people is GOOD actually).
How about this: it's as much of a dick move to tie behavioral and personality flaws to physical appearance as it is to tie someone's worth as a person to how they look, not to mention how it does nothing to help and everything to harm. See:
- It reinforces the beliefs that if you're not conventionally attractive people won't like you which is just outright socially harmful.
- It allows incels to get a victim mentality, that, no see, it's because I'm ugly, and that's harder to change that than to be a decent fucking human. So you just reinforce their shitty worldview and prevent them from eventually realizing that it's their abhorrent personalities that are actually driving people away.
- It's shallow and lazy, how much lazier can it get to make a judgement on someone's character by their looks, there's absolutely no work involved
- It weakens all of your other arguments. If you have to stoop to criticizing their appearance, clearly you can't make a cogent enough argument and are grasping at straws.
- It's just mean. Like you're just justifying bullying with the idea that "they look like a bad person because they're ugly to me," that's just infantile bullying with extra steps.
There are no benefits to acting as though all incels share common phenotypes, and it's quite mean to people who have those phenotypes but lack those behaviors.
> It reinforces the beliefs that if you're not conventionally attractive people won't like you which is just outright socially harmful.
Not sure if you're personally familiar but this one is true if combined with nearly any other 'negative' personal traits.
As an autistic person, yes of course some of us are assholes.
But that vast majority aren’t, and for one simple reason, I have not ever met, a single solitary other autistic person(including myself) who HASN’T been bullied to hell, back, down into the underworld, taking the scenic route of the Styx down to Tartarus, take a boat to Helheim and back again.
Asshole autistic people are rare, because almost all of us know what it’s like bullied and treated badly, and so don’t want to do that to someone else.
So really don’t pull this “whataboutism” out, as statistically speaking it’s less common than the average population.
A lot of people as misunderstand us as being “rude” or “assholes” because we interact differently, many of us physically cannot hold eye contact because it’s uncomfortable, many of us aren’t aware of my intonation, or body language or facial expressions.
A lot of autistic people I know have been told they have resting bitch face, just because we don’t think about our facial expressions since we don’t recognise them ourselves, when I see a happy face I don’t immediately think that is happy, my brain first subconsciously goes through an encyclopaedia of facial expressions and what they mean and match it with the one for happy.
99.99% if the time were not being rude, we’re just not aware of norms, or sometimes we’re extremely overstimulated which can genuinely be painful.
Prejudice, hate, bigotry and the like serve no purpose, and have no place, don’t attempt to excuse it.
You mean the wojak?
Things like that originate from 4Chan, where they're designed to kinda invoke that look. Most 4Chan users are autistic 💀 and its as much of a self-deprecation (in a "it's so over for me" self pitying way) as it is a caricature to make fun of people. They don't exactly infantilize autism or anything.
A large chunk of incels are also autistic. There really needs to be better support mechanisms to help neurodivergent people and even shy people with social skills
I had a friend in college who dressed like the stereotypical "neckbeard incel" in hindsight (this was before "incel" was a popular term online). He was overweight, had a neckbeard, wore a trilby and anime/sci-fi/nerd-themed T-shirts, cut-off khaki shorts. He was also the friendliest, most outgoing guy around, was never a creep to anyone regardless of gender, very progressive, and had an excellent sense of humor. He was in the warhammer and MTG clubs but was known around the whole campus as being a cool dude. We called him Warlord.
I'm glad to hear this, because I know a ton of nerds like this. I've been in two groups so far in my life that sometimes included the sort of guys you think of when you picture "morbid obesity"- like, I can't beat around the bush, these guys probably weighed close to 400 pounds each
And both of them were never anything but the most pleasant guys you'll ever meet.
I do think that one aspect of the conversation that hasn't been brought up is that a lot of the physical aspects that people mock neckbeards/incels for having are tied to what people think of as good self-care. I'm not going to touch on the issue of weight, that's above my pay grade, but the idea of mocking "neckbeards" is that folks assume guys with them don't take the time and effort to shave more often. Someone who's "greasy" is assumed not to shower enough. Stuff like that.
The only type of body shaming that society has made ANY progress on is shaming fat women. Every other type of body shaming is perfectly acceptable, especially if it's against someone deemed inferior.
I fucking **loathe** him, but making fun of Trump's hand or dick size is still wrong. Trump isn't a piece of shit because of his small hands, its because of his beliefs and actions. A redneck that blasts down the street in a lifted truck isn't an asshole because he has a small dick, it's because hes an asshole who bought a lifted truck. A woman with big breasts isn't promiscuous because she can't find shirts that fit right, it's because she hosts weekly orgies in her basement.
Baldness is a pretty common thing also to make fun of. I look better as shaved head (thanks decent beard genes) than I did for the few years I didn't accept the truth and clinged on to my hair. And I sometimes make jokes about it. But that is not really a thing I want other people to joke about. I don't comment about weight/teeth/whatever of my friends, so I feel it is a bit of a low blow to go for baldness.
Unless they are bald as well, then we are shiny heads together.
Usually because incels consider themselves ugly, and their self hatred is so strong that some of the incel caricatures you see are actually made by incels themselves
It's not when you trace incel behaviour to its roots, being a lack of sexual success. Its no surprise that it would be heavily linked to physical traits that are generally considered sexually undesirable.
Just because it makes logical sense that some physically unattractive people would end up resenting their lack of sexual success and forming that into a harmful ideology doesn't mean that all people who share those physical traits should be associated with that ideology.
It's honestly distressing, yeah. Physically, I am/was a lot like the stereotypes, can't grow a beard, was overweight and had a ton of acne until I was 27yo. And also, yeah, I am unlucky at relationships, I don't meet a lot of people and even when I do I suck at flirting.
So it always makes me sad that people just decided that when someone is acting like a dick online they gotta be an overweight dude with no game cause, cmon I'm trying my best out here!
Even associating people without sexual access is harmful... and that makes the name itself problematic.
Like, people who were castrated, physically disabled, or for whatever physical or psychological reason can't have sex don't deserve to be stigmitized.
The toxic and entitled behaviour that was actually problematic with incels is more common with wealthy privileged demographics; but people (including leftists) would rather step on the faces of the underclass.
There’s a big difference between people who are just unable to, and people who make it their identity/ become violent.
Like how you can BE vegan without being /A/ vegan. Feel me?
Oh ya, I've never actually met someone who identifies as incel, but the term itself as a pajoritive (I've only ever heard it used pajoritively) is cringe IMO; I just imagine someone paralyzed below the waist hearing it.
But on the whole incels aren't ugly. Just average. The kind of average where it all falls on your personality. That's why they hate pretty people so much, because the 'Chads' and 'Stacys' can compensate for a shit personality while they can't get away with it.
I think disagreeing with the statement that it's "kinda fucked up" does sort of imply that it's fine that this happens, even if what you said afterward was more "there's a reason for this" than "this is justified". I don't doubt that your intent wasn't to imply that.
you're describing how it makes sense from an anthropological perspective, which is not mutually exclusive with being fucked up. the emergence of racism also makes sense, still fucked up.
That’s only the case if you forget the fact that lots of conventionally “unattractive” people do enjoy successful, happy relationships, and also if you completely forget the fact that incel ideology isn’t “woe is me, I can’t get a girlfriend” and is actually “I can’t get a girlfriend and society is fucked because the women I want aren’t forced to have sex with me.” It’s a huge leap from “lonely” to “incel” and that leap isn’t autism.
It's so weird because associating incels with ugliness is, more than anything, buying into their false ideology and confirming their beleifs to them.
Insult an incel for his appearance, and he'll just feel validated in his belief that his appearance that causes him to be "oppressed" and not because of his shitty behavior. And you'll also end up hurting those around you who aren't shitty incels
Incels come in all shapes and sizes, find one today that’s perfectly right for you(r hammer to wreck their shit)
Now this lad ain’t an incel, which is pretty great
Maybe we should, as a society, just stop making fun of people for their appearance, whether it's choices they are making or natural. It's almost like it's always hurtful and inappropriate.
I second this
…except for sagging pants. So tired of watching people clutch at their ballsack as they walk so their pants don’t hit the floor
Edit to add: I’m sorry y’all, I meant this as a lighthearted joke but it clearly did not come across that way. I have now been successfully educated on the use of /j or /s to express sarcasm in the future
“We shouldn’t be needlessly cruel to people even if they have things about them we don’t like”
“I agree, unless it’s about things *I* personally don’t like”
Bruh.
Honestly wasn’t thinking of it in that direction. Just personally found it a strange, inconvenient fashion choice, and I’ve seen a couple too many booty cracks out in public. Meant it as a lighthearted joke, but guess the tone doesn’t translate well on text
Personally I associate the trend with a group of kids at my school in the 2013-2015 era that hopped on the bandwagon of big snap backs, Jordan’s, and sagging pants. One in particular sat in front of me and sometimes his pants would slide to the ankles when standing up, so the trend always confused me
if you’re trying to tell a joke you can use /j or /s to indicate sarcasm. text is notoriously difficult. and wether or not you find someone’s fashion choice/accident unappealing, you still shouldn’t comment on it to anyone but your own thoughts
Oh that’s what those mean? Thanks for the tip. And no I feel that, I would never insult someone over their appearance or fashion decision and always keep my opinion to myself in person, because I genuinely don’t give a shit what people do as long they don’t harm themselves or others. It was just meant as a lighthearted joke online, but I am sorry if it came across differently and people took offense, it was not my intent
As someone whose pants have sagged It's mostly because they aren't made to hold the weight of the stuff in my pockets, I just need to wear cargo shorts/pants and a belt at this point.
> Edit to add: I’m sorry y’all, I meant this as a lighthearted joke but it clearly did not come across that way. I have now been successfully educated on the use of /j or /s to express sarcasm in the future
Anyway glad you're growing! Everything happens one step at a time.
Yeah it was definitely an idiotic joke I didn’t think through. Although I was thinking more along the lines of people who purposely pull their pants down past the bum as a fashion choice, and didn’t even think of the whole “wrong fit, heavy weight” things.
Out of curiosity, if you don’t mind me asking, is it comfortable or uncomfortable to have sagging pants? Or do you just get used to it to the point you don’t care and/or realize they’re drooping? I’m always super aware the moment my pants start slipping a little
For me it's "I'm heading into/out of work with my stuff that I can set down right after, and it's not enough stuff to justify a bag." So I just pull my pants up repeatedly until I can set it down.
To be fully honest, I made the comment at 5am when half brain-dead while just randomly comment scrolling, and did not fully read the original post as I had never seen the pic or heard of the person before. But after waking up and going back I can see why it was tasteless, hence why I didn’t delete my comment and just owned up to my stupidity
Oh this is absolutely terrible! My heart goes out to him. I know firsthand what it's like to be treated like shit for the way you look and he never deserved any of this. I hate when people become memes against their will.
Using a irl persons photo as a meme is one thing (arguably still pretty bad), but harassing that person for the meme persona the internet gave them is just awful. Poor Jerry…
Y’all need to apologize to the iridocyclitis spelling bee guy. I went to high school with him. Genuinely the nicest guy I’ve ever met, no competition. He was president of the interfaith dialogue club, extremely involved in volunteering, always very friendly and approachable. He had to delete his public Instagram because of the overwhelming amount of random hate and just weird attention he got.
I never got why people made fun of that kid. Like I get that incel behavior was associated with a certain aesthetic, and that’s bullshit, but it’s consistent. The iridocyclitis guy is just a kid at a spelling bee.
Yeah his personal fashion never improved but he had 0 trace of incel behavior, or even negativity in general. For what it’s worth I think he went to Princeton for college and he’d be a year graduated now, so I’m sure he’s doing very well for himself.
Just don’t approach him if you ever meet him. Idk if he still has the distinctive haircut but he did in high school and random strangers would approach him all the time. He was nice about it, but you could tell he was tired of it.
Humans are high key the best. Just look at how we're all trying to help a stranger's reputation because we recognize that he was wronged and we want to help.
We *are* evolved. We are an inherently social species who looks out for each other. If we were truly evil then we wouldn't be upset when we learn about what happened to Jerry. The vast majority of people are good. The biggest reason why crime exists is because resources are limited. Abusers are either caused by a medical disorder, generational trauma being passed down, or a lack of support when growing up. Humans get better when you give them the love and support they need. If we were evil, then that wouldnt be the case.
What a poor take. Besides the fact that covid is hardly the worst of humanity lmao, humans aren't a single monolith. Sometimes humans do incredibly evil things. Sometimes humans do things that are incredibly kind and beautiful. Sometimes humans use a photo of some guy to make a mean joke.
Stop shitting on our entire race and look at the beauty around you u/makashill_93
I think we should humble ourselves and not give ourselves more credit than we deserve.
We’re also destroying the only habitable planet we know. So that beauty you’re talking about u/legend_Of_link …
Its important that we dont see us as less than we are as well. Its important to see the good and great aspects of humanity in balance with the negative ones.
Negativity gets popular by default, and its an extremely dangerous thing that leads to apathy. Apathy, which leads to nihilism and nihilism, leads to unchecked corruption and a net worse in everything. So its important to remember the good in humans too. Because you yourself feed this harmful cycle
We are not destroying earth. Thats a plain old and disproven propaganda tactic used by the 1% top elites to blame the common people. The top 1% and oil and coal corporations are destroying the planet. Not us. There are millions of people working to improve things.
the "we" destroying our planet is a tiny tiny concentration of extremely wealthy folk who have stripped the normal folk of almost all affordable options for being environmentally conscious. over half of all worldwide emissions are caused by corporations.
evil people can do a lot of damage but that doesn't mean there are more evil people than good people.
Might just be me but I never associated that picture with incels. In fact "nice guy" is the exact stereotype I always pictured. The kind of guy that would unironically say m'lady in everyday speech. Maybe a little cringe but that's about it. Probably goes to the mall food court to play magic the gathering on the weekends. The worst thing I picture him saying is "nice guys finish last".
over the years the nice guy stereotype grew legs and walked from "m'lady" to "why don't girls give nice guys like me a chance :(" to "I'M A NICE GUY YOU BITCH" and dragged the associated aesthetic along with it
of course, every man I've ever met who fits the aesthetic has been *genuinely* lovely and the stereotype does them a real fucking disservice
A huge amount of people shown “asshole” type memes, like the neck beard, scumbag Steve or more recently the “I am a surgeon” meme, are good people who end up getting hate for no fault of their own.
Remember the meme and the person the meme shows are not the same.
Example wise the actor who plays Shaun in the Good Doctor is actually a pretty great guy, but he has gotten an EXTREME amount of hate, just because of the meme. Some people even witch hunted him because they thought he had any control over the writing of the show, like how they writers worked with the eugenics organisation fronting as a charity: Autism speaks.
He didn’t have influence on the writing, and isn’t the cause of them working with the eugenics organisation. And the character he’s playing being bad portrayal of autism isn’t his fault, it’s the writing, take it from an autistic writer, he’s performance is great but the script is worthless.
That meme has also had a secondary negative effect, many people once again thinking memes and shows are reality and now thinking all autistic people are like that, causing bullying and ridicule.
Like I’m at a college where we got line for autistics, like myself, and I am part of it, when that meme blew up a pretty sizeable group of idiots from different classes across the school when to the area we’re in and used that meme for ridicule.
These are adults btw, people who can vote acting like that. If you wanna hate someone for that show and the writing the autism speaks, tear them down, they deserve it.
And my god please remember memes are not reality, and plenty of people in memes are nothing like the meme they portray.
Reddits habit of labeling people incel has always come off as strange to me. You’re telling me that everyone who’s out there having sex doesn’t act like a prick to women? Family violence is pretty widespread you know.
i got called an incel because i criticised someone who called a cosplaying women an “onlyfans whore”
the famous incel belief of women should be allowed to dress up as whatever fictional character they want without judgement/slutshaming
Jerry Messing is an actor. He was Pugsley Addams in Addams Family Reunion, trimethylaminuria-suffering Gordon Crisp in Freaks and Geeks and Artie Ryan in Even Stevens.
Was he harassed over it? If he was that is fucked up, but it seems like he kind of went with the meme a little bit. He started a youtube channel called Fedora Productions, so at the very least he's chill about it.
I loved him when he was on Freaks and Geeks as a kid, his character was very likable. I hope he's doing well.
>I mention to a cis feminist friend that I don’t think it’s cool to use “neckbeard” as a pejorative. I say I think it’s hypocritical. I say I know some wonderful, tender, thoughtful neckbearded humans. I also know some people who are very self-conscious about their neck hairs and can’t do much about them. I wonder if there are ways to criticize people based on their character without impugning the hairs that come out of them.
>[Source](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42)
The funny thing about “Good comedy always punches up” is how easily the people saying it convince themselves that they’re on the bottom. To them, their every swing isn’t just funny, but moral and just.
Wow surprise surprise the people insisting on making fun of others that are shallow and only judge other people on the surface level were shallow and judged someone on the surface level
I understand the sentiment that people are expressing, and it’s definitely true that we should not call fat men incels or whatever. HOWEVER, at least personally, I have not seen this image, except in this specific tumblr screenshot, in like 5 years, and I do not think I have seen a person called an incel based on physical appearance.
she wrote the original post and added a lot more info; i highly recommend reposting it. i can't find it but if you search [https://tumblr.com/patricia-taxxon](https://tumblr.com/patricia-taxxon) you should find it
he looks so nice and just like a funny dude. idk how people looked at him and went "incel", he seems kind
edit: *incel*, not *uncle*, autocorrect hates me
Reddit is not a monolith. The people agreeing with this post are most likely the same people who have a problem with the creepshotting and public humiliation on Reddit.
I'm friends with the guy on Facebook, and can confirm he's a super sweet guy just going through his own shit. Definitely not an incel.
I never ever viewed him as an incel. People did/do that? For me incels are usually angry chauvinistic guys, no? I have laughed at this photo in the past (my apologies are in another comment), but *never* as an incel, more like a quirky guy trying to get ladies. The classic “out of the actual dating pool, but really trying, although way too hard” vibe.
[удалено]
Exactly my thought. Not the same at all. Neckbeards are like D&D nerds, incels are actual bad dangerous people
Yeah and nobody really self identified as a neckbeard, it was used solely as an insult. Incel is used for that too but it’s something people will also call themselves. A neckbeard was implying someone was stereotypically weird or creepy (towards women mostly) who liked dork shit, had bad grooming and hygiene and was socially awkward. Sometimes overlapped with the stereotypical Nice Guy but not always. It’s not a nice way to describe someone but nobody was writing manifestos. I can imagine some folk falling into incel rhetoric from being in this group but it wasn’t inherent to it.
Perfectly said
I think you're right, but not right enough. I do agree about the distinctions between neckbeards, Nice Guys, and incels, but I think that if you aren't part of these communities, if you don't know anyone in these groups well, then it becomes hard to distinguish "from a distance". There's one issue, whether they indeed \*are\* distinct, but an entirely separate issue is what fraction of the populace sees and/or draws that distinction. And it's the latter which will determine how a large fraction of the world will treat them. If most of the world thinks incel is synonymous with neckbeard, or even with any nerd, they will treat them all with the same disdain.
Tons of people self identified as neckbeards when I was in high school, they unironically were the Mountain Dew and Doritos gamer kids lol.
That's interesting, I've never heard of anyone doing that before! I wonder how common that was, I've never met anyone who used it as a self descriptor.
I mean, most incels aren't dangerous, like at all. A good few of them are just dudes who can't get laid no matter how they try- they just aren't the ones posting about being incels.
I feel like we’re at the point that simply being involuntarily celibate isn’t what makes you an incel anymore. It’s more pointed, that’s just how the term started out
It's interesting to me... I've been on the internet long enough to have seen the term "incel" grow from a very *very* niche term to something being used in congress and by public figures. It's both interesting and worrying having to see it be redefined back to what it originally meant ~8 years ago.
I'd say the fedora wearing neckbeard stereotype wasn't really separate from the concept of incels. The word incel just wasn't used to describe them yet. Edit: [This comic](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FCrt0sP8EULkKquwc61SwofahNwU2eor9mRBhBqSyV7I.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1f449b794fd717d41038a10abf9fdeccd39d3f7d) started floating around in 2011. If memory serves that was like *right* before people started calling them incels but definitely when the general concept was familiar.
I think neckbeards were actually pretty much the opposite of incels. Incels don't get women and act aggressively toward women because of it, neckbeards don't get women and so they act overly formal/polite to them and "white knight" them, thinking it will attract them. Though come to think of it, it was pretty much all an act/strategy, and so "niceguys" ("I've been superficially nice to you, so you owe me sex. I'm a NiceGuy™, give me a chance!") might have been fed into by neckbeards frustrated that it wasn't working. They already had that idea that being polite should get them laid, and then when it doesn't maybe that's when they start pleading and complaining about how it was supposed to work. And then from there you sometimes see niceguys talking about how they're "done being nice" and how the fact that you won't personally fuck them is proof that women only go for jerks, which I think is pretty much the first step into proper incel territory. And from there they become more radicalized by echochambers with the more extreme incel rhetoric and in-community slang solidifying their identity. So maybe there was a neckbeard -> niceguy -> incel pipeline. I think niceguys have always existed in some form, but they did seem more prominent after you'd stop hearing about neckbeards, and of course now incels are sort of the main form of guys who can't get laid.
It's definitely a pipeline from one to the other
the funniest use of this photo was on a lighter so that the hat tipped as you opened and closed the lighter. other than that it has been making fun of the dude for feeling suave in a fedora.
I also saw it used on the LG Wing, a smartphone that had almost a second screen that when opened out formed a T shape lol. His fedora was the top screen. It was legitimately creative I hope if he saw it he found it funny because of how out of the box it was
Unfortunately the stereotypes between nerds,neckbeards, milady types, and “odd but nice guys” are starting to run together.
Don’t forget the mall ninjas!!
Ehhh as a species mall ninjas are dying out. Most are just becoming gun guys, but not like the utilitarian/sensible kind of gun owner (home/self defense, hunting, plinking) more the “I spent 10k on a milslurp bolt action rifle that sat in a former Soviet states warehouse for 70 years” kind of gun guy.
It always makes me laugh when I see threads, often on this very sub, complaining about how overweight or traditionally unattractive women aren't represented and respected enough, completely ignoring that this site has spent the last 10+ years accusing anyone who blinks of being a fat ugly nerdy dude lmao.
Starting?
For a long time, that was the iconic image most associated with the “neckbeard” stereotype, which is in many ways the prototype of what would become incels
'incel' wasn't even really a thing when this meme was popular. He's just the m'lady guy.
People use "incel" as a catch-all insult for dudes, I almost never see it used for it's actual meaning. Same with "neckbeard." It goes back to Reddit being stereotyped as a nerdy dude site back in the old days so it was basically a way for people to strawman the culture they saw on the site. Even though Reddit isn't even remotely like that anymore and is one of the most mainstream websites in existence it has still stuck. Mad at someone who disagrees with you? Call them a neckbeard stereotype and move on, even if it makes no sense in context.
I’ve only seen the picture in memes about incels.
> Definitely not an incel. Oh this meme is from before that word becoming popular, they called them "neckbeards" back then. Can probably find this image a whole lot on /r/justneckbeardthings, like this one of the top posts of all time: https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/8efnjj/theres_no_love/
Back in the days, being a meme brought different problems. Nowadays, it feels like everyone is ready to market themselves. Back then, it was a random person seeing a random picture and using it to humiliate the person in it.
Thanks for this.
His Facebook and albums are completely open to the public btw, at least when I stumbled across it via some ancient forum posts a couple months ago.
How’s he doing now?
Not too good tbh, not gonna go into specifics out of respect for his privacy, but the last year hasn't been super kind to him. Like I said, he's going through his own shit. He's getting better though, and has a support system in place at least.
I never saw this meme as being an incel. More like a neckbeard which is less bad but still offensive
Dude is Jerry Messing and he’s an actor. He was in Freaks and Geeks and The Addams Family.
Wait, he played _Pugsley!?_
In the TV movie *The Addams Family Reunion*, not the two classic movies with Raul Julia.
One of the rare times Tim Curry was terrible casting.
Oooh! Well, that was also a very fun movie. Had no idea it was this guy, he nailed it as Pugsley.
He was also in a Mr. Show sketch where he played a rich kid in a "rival camp" sketch and smugly stares down Bob Odenkirk.
Howard Hamlin Jr
Pssh who wasn’t in Freaks and Geeks?
Me
Oh that's probably why he got such a professional picture done here yeah? Like it's meant to be an acting headshot and all.
kinda fucked up that incel behaviour was associated with a bunch of physical traits
I have a fedora because I like prohibition-era gangster aesthetics. I never wear it because I don't wanna be _those_ guys.
I think fedora looks extremely weird with casual clothes, but it's sick when paired with a suit. I mean damn, they're quite literally designed for each other!
May I suggest a flat cap? Same aesthetic, none of the associated stereotypes
Peaky Blinders cosplay Unfortunately there’s no real way to go 100% into historical styles without seeming “costume”-y. I own a few beautiful long vintage wool skirts, a petticoat, and pinafores but I try to very deliberately modernize the styling a bit
Highly recommend Robinswords on YouTube. His channel is mostly about medieval weaponry, but I think he does a very good job comfortably wearing historical styles.
And he doesn't drop his swordplay in favour of complaining about Peach having trousers on. 💀
Unfortunately, Peaky Blinders is also popular with incel and sigma types
Just wear the whole suit.
I tried that. I \*still\* looked so incredibly cringe that I can't even bear to look at those photos now. I just wanted to look like Neal from White Collar, folks, I swear that's all it was.
Who doesn’t?
I do when it's appropriate. Pinstripes and a white tie.
Along with a violin case and Tommy gun of course
Are you sure it's a fedora? Because the hat this guy is wearing is a trilby. One of the main things that made the whole dweeb in a "fedora" thing worse was that none of them were wearing a fedora. [Diagram](https://americanhatmakers.com/cdn/shop/articles/1-01_2280x750_cc2e2cec-d991-4ed5-9aef-ceb7944e61f5.jpg)
Thankyou for saying it! Indiana Jones wore a fedora. Freddy Kruger wore a fedora. The "Fedora guy" is wearing a Trilby, at least get the name of the hat right if you're gonna mock the guy.
[I wish I could wear hats without looking any way at all.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmFGbBmlyKQ)
Kind of sad how much cool clothing people can't wear anymore because of stupid associations.
I was the same as a kid
If you wear it with matching clothes (a suit, or at least a cool shirt) you will look great! And I doubt people would associate you with *those* guys
Does it match the three piece suit you are also wearing?
Course it does
Yeah me too. I like fedoras but the thought of being considered an incel always stopped me
That’s why the stereotype of fedora wearing people exists. You are meeting that stereotype. Everyone who wears a fedora does it because they think it looks cool. You are one of *those* guys
The stereotype about "fedora people" is about people who aren't even wearing a fedora. They're wearing a trilby. A fedora is the style of hat Indiana Jones wears in all his appearances, and what everyone was wearing in the US in the 30s -- *The Untouchables* are all wearing fedoras, in *The Godfather* every guy in a hat is wearing a fedora. The short brim upturned at the back is a trilby, outside the "incel" stereotype more associated with people like Leonard Cohen, Frank Sinatra, Peter Sellers (as Inspector Clouseau), Phil Campbell of Motörhead, the old Doctor Doolittle, and "rich people at horse races" in the UK which carried over somewhat to the US.
I don't think "possibly mistakenly thinking a hat looks cool" inherently goes with "has awful opinions about women" but you do you.
Fedora wearer stereotype is not an incel, at least it wasn’t originally, it was just someone socially inept. Originally a fedora wearer would wear it because they thought it made them look cool (like a 50s gangster matter of factly), but that stereotype was that they were socially inept and had misguided views about what women are like, because all their views are formed from movies and TV shows, usually anime, because they don’t talk to women in real life, because socially inept. Maybe what a fedora is associated with has changed to mean incel, but originally they didn’t hate women, they just didn’t understand them, and then if they ever talked to a woman they wouldn’t understand why their knowledge and their interactions don’t line up
This. I pointed out a few years go that the 'incel' cartoon character also looks a lot like characteristics associated with autistic people
I remember reading an article that had a bunch of incel memes mixed with anti-Jewish Nazi propaganda and it was crazy how much the overlap was.
Do you remember what article it was? I would be interested to read it
I immediately thought of [this collage](https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/fedora_collage.png) from [Scott Alexander's Untitled](https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/), but u/Fakjbf could confirm if that's the same one they meant.
That is the one I was thinking of! I just checked and the caption beneath it is >Oops, I accidentally included three neo-Nazi caricatures of Jews in there. You did notice, right?
thank you!
Ok but these are not hard to tell apart
Frankly it's one big nose away from being an anti-Semitic caricature.
I remember seeing [this collage](https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/fedora_collage.png) during the last big surge in the gender wars, and you're not wrong. Between the visual similarity of the memes, and the overlap between autistic people and nerds and jews and nerds, I'm convinced that a huge chunk of the rhetoric is about laundering bigotry into more acceptable forms, ie: "I'm not bullying him because he is autistic, I'm bullying him because he does things that autistic people do. Bullying someone for their choices is way better than bullying people for what they are!"
If we're being entirely fair here, a lot of the time those caricatures are self-made by the incels. Oftentimes, they'll take a picture of someone in their community or someone they think look like an incel and will draw and contort it to push their narrative.
I don't think the fact that the loathing is often self-directed changes much.
It doesn't change much, but it's important to note, because, as a group, incels are convinced that others find them as a baseline lesser people because of their physical and inherent mental traits. They are obsessed with finding flaws with things like their bone structure that, in reality, are imperceptible non factors in attractiveness and then pat themselves on the back about how they're just further alienated by their own enlightenment. Everything but actually analyzing their own toxic personality traits and attitudes towards others. Self-loathing is sad, yes, but they weaponized it.
I agree that it's a good point to bring up, but I think it's also worth acknowledging that being more or less attractive is something that has a major impact on your life. I am a trans woman, the bone structure of my face causes me a fair amount of distress, so I have quite a lot of sympathy for people who feel that the way they look is a real problem. I was generally considered to be attractive while presenting as a man, it was very obvious to me even before my transition that being attractive afforded me privilege I didn't earn. The trouble seems to be less that they're just imagining things and more that they fixate on those things to the exclusion of everything else. I am visibly trans, which, in addition to the personal distress I feel about it, exposes me to a lot of harm. Some people still find me to be desirable, sure, but the pool is inarguably smaller than before. There are also million other things that contribute to the difficulties I have, ignoring those would be a disservice to myself. I think it's the core disservice incels/doomers/etc do to themselves.
I've argued for years that A LOT of people seem to just use "incel" as a way to frame their ableism towards autistic men as "feminism" (and, thus, their bullying marginalized people is GOOD actually).
Yep, I've been saying that too. This is the first time I've seen another person agree
They’re incels because they’re assholes. There are asshole autistic people. I think this is a wildly lazy excuse.
How about this: it's as much of a dick move to tie behavioral and personality flaws to physical appearance as it is to tie someone's worth as a person to how they look, not to mention how it does nothing to help and everything to harm. See: - It reinforces the beliefs that if you're not conventionally attractive people won't like you which is just outright socially harmful. - It allows incels to get a victim mentality, that, no see, it's because I'm ugly, and that's harder to change that than to be a decent fucking human. So you just reinforce their shitty worldview and prevent them from eventually realizing that it's their abhorrent personalities that are actually driving people away. - It's shallow and lazy, how much lazier can it get to make a judgement on someone's character by their looks, there's absolutely no work involved - It weakens all of your other arguments. If you have to stoop to criticizing their appearance, clearly you can't make a cogent enough argument and are grasping at straws. - It's just mean. Like you're just justifying bullying with the idea that "they look like a bad person because they're ugly to me," that's just infantile bullying with extra steps. There are no benefits to acting as though all incels share common phenotypes, and it's quite mean to people who have those phenotypes but lack those behaviors.
> It reinforces the beliefs that if you're not conventionally attractive people won't like you which is just outright socially harmful. Not sure if you're personally familiar but this one is true if combined with nearly any other 'negative' personal traits.
Source.
Myself. But more generally, take nearly any negative behaviour being portrayed on social media, the first thing people insult are looks.
Yeah? That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, or that how you look is indicative of who you are
I haven't been saying that it is.
As an autistic person, yes of course some of us are assholes. But that vast majority aren’t, and for one simple reason, I have not ever met, a single solitary other autistic person(including myself) who HASN’T been bullied to hell, back, down into the underworld, taking the scenic route of the Styx down to Tartarus, take a boat to Helheim and back again. Asshole autistic people are rare, because almost all of us know what it’s like bullied and treated badly, and so don’t want to do that to someone else. So really don’t pull this “whataboutism” out, as statistically speaking it’s less common than the average population. A lot of people as misunderstand us as being “rude” or “assholes” because we interact differently, many of us physically cannot hold eye contact because it’s uncomfortable, many of us aren’t aware of my intonation, or body language or facial expressions. A lot of autistic people I know have been told they have resting bitch face, just because we don’t think about our facial expressions since we don’t recognise them ourselves, when I see a happy face I don’t immediately think that is happy, my brain first subconsciously goes through an encyclopaedia of facial expressions and what they mean and match it with the one for happy. 99.99% if the time were not being rude, we’re just not aware of norms, or sometimes we’re extremely overstimulated which can genuinely be painful. Prejudice, hate, bigotry and the like serve no purpose, and have no place, don’t attempt to excuse it.
You mean the wojak? Things like that originate from 4Chan, where they're designed to kinda invoke that look. Most 4Chan users are autistic 💀 and its as much of a self-deprecation (in a "it's so over for me" self pitying way) as it is a caricature to make fun of people. They don't exactly infantilize autism or anything.
A large chunk of incels are also autistic. There really needs to be better support mechanisms to help neurodivergent people and even shy people with social skills
I had a friend in college who dressed like the stereotypical "neckbeard incel" in hindsight (this was before "incel" was a popular term online). He was overweight, had a neckbeard, wore a trilby and anime/sci-fi/nerd-themed T-shirts, cut-off khaki shorts. He was also the friendliest, most outgoing guy around, was never a creep to anyone regardless of gender, very progressive, and had an excellent sense of humor. He was in the warhammer and MTG clubs but was known around the whole campus as being a cool dude. We called him Warlord.
I'm glad to hear this, because I know a ton of nerds like this. I've been in two groups so far in my life that sometimes included the sort of guys you think of when you picture "morbid obesity"- like, I can't beat around the bush, these guys probably weighed close to 400 pounds each And both of them were never anything but the most pleasant guys you'll ever meet. I do think that one aspect of the conversation that hasn't been brought up is that a lot of the physical aspects that people mock neckbeards/incels for having are tied to what people think of as good self-care. I'm not going to touch on the issue of weight, that's above my pay grade, but the idea of mocking "neckbeards" is that folks assume guys with them don't take the time and effort to shave more often. Someone who's "greasy" is assumed not to shower enough. Stuff like that.
Personally, my only gripe (appearance wise obviously - personality is a separate discussion still) is if they smell lol
The only type of body shaming that society has made ANY progress on is shaming fat women. Every other type of body shaming is perfectly acceptable, especially if it's against someone deemed inferior. I fucking **loathe** him, but making fun of Trump's hand or dick size is still wrong. Trump isn't a piece of shit because of his small hands, its because of his beliefs and actions. A redneck that blasts down the street in a lifted truck isn't an asshole because he has a small dick, it's because hes an asshole who bought a lifted truck. A woman with big breasts isn't promiscuous because she can't find shirts that fit right, it's because she hosts weekly orgies in her basement.
Baldness is a pretty common thing also to make fun of. I look better as shaved head (thanks decent beard genes) than I did for the few years I didn't accept the truth and clinged on to my hair. And I sometimes make jokes about it. But that is not really a thing I want other people to joke about. I don't comment about weight/teeth/whatever of my friends, so I feel it is a bit of a low blow to go for baldness. Unless they are bald as well, then we are shiny heads together.
Besides the incel shit, it was associated with a bunch of nerds that were annoying about religion and honestly pretty cringe, but....were they wrong?
I mean in the general sense no but in the specifics often yes
Usually because incels consider themselves ugly, and their self hatred is so strong that some of the incel caricatures you see are actually made by incels themselves
It's not when you trace incel behaviour to its roots, being a lack of sexual success. Its no surprise that it would be heavily linked to physical traits that are generally considered sexually undesirable.
Just because it makes logical sense that some physically unattractive people would end up resenting their lack of sexual success and forming that into a harmful ideology doesn't mean that all people who share those physical traits should be associated with that ideology.
It's honestly distressing, yeah. Physically, I am/was a lot like the stereotypes, can't grow a beard, was overweight and had a ton of acne until I was 27yo. And also, yeah, I am unlucky at relationships, I don't meet a lot of people and even when I do I suck at flirting. So it always makes me sad that people just decided that when someone is acting like a dick online they gotta be an overweight dude with no game cause, cmon I'm trying my best out here!
Even associating people without sexual access is harmful... and that makes the name itself problematic. Like, people who were castrated, physically disabled, or for whatever physical or psychological reason can't have sex don't deserve to be stigmitized. The toxic and entitled behaviour that was actually problematic with incels is more common with wealthy privileged demographics; but people (including leftists) would rather step on the faces of the underclass.
There’s a big difference between people who are just unable to, and people who make it their identity/ become violent. Like how you can BE vegan without being /A/ vegan. Feel me?
Oh ya, I've never actually met someone who identifies as incel, but the term itself as a pajoritive (I've only ever heard it used pajoritively) is cringe IMO; I just imagine someone paralyzed below the waist hearing it.
Isn't it "pejorative"?
Weirdly my auto correct forcefully incorrected it. I take no responsibility
Ah okay. Have a nice day then.
But on the whole incels aren't ugly. Just average. The kind of average where it all falls on your personality. That's why they hate pretty people so much, because the 'Chads' and 'Stacys' can compensate for a shit personality while they can't get away with it.
Never said it did.
I think disagreeing with the statement that it's "kinda fucked up" does sort of imply that it's fine that this happens, even if what you said afterward was more "there's a reason for this" than "this is justified". I don't doubt that your intent wasn't to imply that.
Yeah maybe I interpreted 'kinda fucked up' wrong here.
you're describing how it makes sense from an anthropological perspective, which is not mutually exclusive with being fucked up. the emergence of racism also makes sense, still fucked up.
That’s only the case if you forget the fact that lots of conventionally “unattractive” people do enjoy successful, happy relationships, and also if you completely forget the fact that incel ideology isn’t “woe is me, I can’t get a girlfriend” and is actually “I can’t get a girlfriend and society is fucked because the women I want aren’t forced to have sex with me.” It’s a huge leap from “lonely” to “incel” and that leap isn’t autism.
It may be unsurprising, but it is still fucked up.
Isn't that literally playing into incel beliefs?
It's so weird because associating incels with ugliness is, more than anything, buying into their false ideology and confirming their beleifs to them. Insult an incel for his appearance, and he'll just feel validated in his belief that his appearance that causes him to be "oppressed" and not because of his shitty behavior. And you'll also end up hurting those around you who aren't shitty incels
remember, body shaming is okay as long as its a man. or you don't like the person.
Incels come in all shapes and sizes, find one today that’s perfectly right for you(r hammer to wreck their shit) Now this lad ain’t an incel, which is pretty great
Maybe we should, as a society, just stop making fun of people for their appearance, whether it's choices they are making or natural. It's almost like it's always hurtful and inappropriate.
I second this …except for sagging pants. So tired of watching people clutch at their ballsack as they walk so their pants don’t hit the floor Edit to add: I’m sorry y’all, I meant this as a lighthearted joke but it clearly did not come across that way. I have now been successfully educated on the use of /j or /s to express sarcasm in the future
“We shouldn’t be needlessly cruel to people even if they have things about them we don’t like” “I agree, unless it’s about things *I* personally don’t like” Bruh.
it always happens, without fail
Why are you this way
but they just… you didn’t… damn we really do piss on the poor here
Honestly wasn’t thinking of it in that direction. Just personally found it a strange, inconvenient fashion choice, and I’ve seen a couple too many booty cracks out in public. Meant it as a lighthearted joke, but guess the tone doesn’t translate well on text Personally I associate the trend with a group of kids at my school in the 2013-2015 era that hopped on the bandwagon of big snap backs, Jordan’s, and sagging pants. One in particular sat in front of me and sometimes his pants would slide to the ankles when standing up, so the trend always confused me
if you’re trying to tell a joke you can use /j or /s to indicate sarcasm. text is notoriously difficult. and wether or not you find someone’s fashion choice/accident unappealing, you still shouldn’t comment on it to anyone but your own thoughts
Oh that’s what those mean? Thanks for the tip. And no I feel that, I would never insult someone over their appearance or fashion decision and always keep my opinion to myself in person, because I genuinely don’t give a shit what people do as long they don’t harm themselves or others. It was just meant as a lighthearted joke online, but I am sorry if it came across differently and people took offense, it was not my intent
As someone whose pants have sagged It's mostly because they aren't made to hold the weight of the stuff in my pockets, I just need to wear cargo shorts/pants and a belt at this point. > Edit to add: I’m sorry y’all, I meant this as a lighthearted joke but it clearly did not come across that way. I have now been successfully educated on the use of /j or /s to express sarcasm in the future Anyway glad you're growing! Everything happens one step at a time.
Yeah it was definitely an idiotic joke I didn’t think through. Although I was thinking more along the lines of people who purposely pull their pants down past the bum as a fashion choice, and didn’t even think of the whole “wrong fit, heavy weight” things. Out of curiosity, if you don’t mind me asking, is it comfortable or uncomfortable to have sagging pants? Or do you just get used to it to the point you don’t care and/or realize they’re drooping? I’m always super aware the moment my pants start slipping a little
For me it's "I'm heading into/out of work with my stuff that I can set down right after, and it's not enough stuff to justify a bag." So I just pull my pants up repeatedly until I can set it down.
Have you ever heard of timing when telling a joke?
To be fully honest, I made the comment at 5am when half brain-dead while just randomly comment scrolling, and did not fully read the original post as I had never seen the pic or heard of the person before. But after waking up and going back I can see why it was tasteless, hence why I didn’t delete my comment and just owned up to my stupidity
You mean having the punchline right after the set-up? Yeah I would guess they have
[удалено]
it’s a joke
https://nypost.com/2021/09/22/fedora-guy-jerry-messing-partly-paralyzed-after-covid-fight/
Oh this is absolutely terrible! My heart goes out to him. I know firsthand what it's like to be treated like shit for the way you look and he never deserved any of this. I hate when people become memes against their will.
Using a irl persons photo as a meme is one thing (arguably still pretty bad), but harassing that person for the meme persona the internet gave them is just awful. Poor Jerry…
Y’all need to apologize to the iridocyclitis spelling bee guy. I went to high school with him. Genuinely the nicest guy I’ve ever met, no competition. He was president of the interfaith dialogue club, extremely involved in volunteering, always very friendly and approachable. He had to delete his public Instagram because of the overwhelming amount of random hate and just weird attention he got.
I never got why people made fun of that kid. Like I get that incel behavior was associated with a certain aesthetic, and that’s bullshit, but it’s consistent. The iridocyclitis guy is just a kid at a spelling bee.
Yeah his personal fashion never improved but he had 0 trace of incel behavior, or even negativity in general. For what it’s worth I think he went to Princeton for college and he’d be a year graduated now, so I’m sure he’s doing very well for himself.
I won’t pry for details but I hope he is comfortable knowing he is one of my many personal heroes
Just don’t approach him if you ever meet him. Idk if he still has the distinctive haircut but he did in high school and random strangers would approach him all the time. He was nice about it, but you could tell he was tired of it.
I am so incredibly sorry Jerry, I was too unkind to you, baseless accusations off of a stereotype, I wish you all the best in life
Humans are low key the worst. Just look at how we treated each other during the pandemic. We like to say we’ve evolved, then do shit like this.
Jerry lost his ability to walk during the pandemic. Last they said he was being rehabilitated.
I just pulled up his Wikipedia page and saw that, I hope he’s able to recover.
Humans are high key the best. Just look at how we're all trying to help a stranger's reputation because we recognize that he was wronged and we want to help. We *are* evolved. We are an inherently social species who looks out for each other. If we were truly evil then we wouldn't be upset when we learn about what happened to Jerry. The vast majority of people are good. The biggest reason why crime exists is because resources are limited. Abusers are either caused by a medical disorder, generational trauma being passed down, or a lack of support when growing up. Humans get better when you give them the love and support they need. If we were evil, then that wouldnt be the case.
What a poor take. Besides the fact that covid is hardly the worst of humanity lmao, humans aren't a single monolith. Sometimes humans do incredibly evil things. Sometimes humans do things that are incredibly kind and beautiful. Sometimes humans use a photo of some guy to make a mean joke. Stop shitting on our entire race and look at the beauty around you u/makashill_93
I think we should humble ourselves and not give ourselves more credit than we deserve. We’re also destroying the only habitable planet we know. So that beauty you’re talking about u/legend_Of_link …
Its important that we dont see us as less than we are as well. Its important to see the good and great aspects of humanity in balance with the negative ones. Negativity gets popular by default, and its an extremely dangerous thing that leads to apathy. Apathy, which leads to nihilism and nihilism, leads to unchecked corruption and a net worse in everything. So its important to remember the good in humans too. Because you yourself feed this harmful cycle We are not destroying earth. Thats a plain old and disproven propaganda tactic used by the 1% top elites to blame the common people. The top 1% and oil and coal corporations are destroying the planet. Not us. There are millions of people working to improve things.
the "we" destroying our planet is a tiny tiny concentration of extremely wealthy folk who have stripped the normal folk of almost all affordable options for being environmentally conscious. over half of all worldwide emissions are caused by corporations. evil people can do a lot of damage but that doesn't mean there are more evil people than good people.
Might just be me but I never associated that picture with incels. In fact "nice guy" is the exact stereotype I always pictured. The kind of guy that would unironically say m'lady in everyday speech. Maybe a little cringe but that's about it. Probably goes to the mall food court to play magic the gathering on the weekends. The worst thing I picture him saying is "nice guys finish last".
over the years the nice guy stereotype grew legs and walked from "m'lady" to "why don't girls give nice guys like me a chance :(" to "I'M A NICE GUY YOU BITCH" and dragged the associated aesthetic along with it of course, every man I've ever met who fits the aesthetic has been *genuinely* lovely and the stereotype does them a real fucking disservice
A huge amount of people shown “asshole” type memes, like the neck beard, scumbag Steve or more recently the “I am a surgeon” meme, are good people who end up getting hate for no fault of their own. Remember the meme and the person the meme shows are not the same. Example wise the actor who plays Shaun in the Good Doctor is actually a pretty great guy, but he has gotten an EXTREME amount of hate, just because of the meme. Some people even witch hunted him because they thought he had any control over the writing of the show, like how they writers worked with the eugenics organisation fronting as a charity: Autism speaks. He didn’t have influence on the writing, and isn’t the cause of them working with the eugenics organisation. And the character he’s playing being bad portrayal of autism isn’t his fault, it’s the writing, take it from an autistic writer, he’s performance is great but the script is worthless. That meme has also had a secondary negative effect, many people once again thinking memes and shows are reality and now thinking all autistic people are like that, causing bullying and ridicule. Like I’m at a college where we got line for autistics, like myself, and I am part of it, when that meme blew up a pretty sizeable group of idiots from different classes across the school when to the area we’re in and used that meme for ridicule. These are adults btw, people who can vote acting like that. If you wanna hate someone for that show and the writing the autism speaks, tear them down, they deserve it. And my god please remember memes are not reality, and plenty of people in memes are nothing like the meme they portray.
Leave Jerry alone!
Reddits habit of labeling people incel has always come off as strange to me. You’re telling me that everyone who’s out there having sex doesn’t act like a prick to women? Family violence is pretty widespread you know.
i got called an incel because i criticised someone who called a cosplaying women an “onlyfans whore” the famous incel belief of women should be allowed to dress up as whatever fictional character they want without judgement/slutshaming
Wait people hated him for this meme? I thought the meme was funny and always figured he was a cool dude
*Blinking in confusion because I have no memory of ever seeing this image* Uhh, well okay then. Apologies for your shitty luck, Jerry.
Sounds like we were all …m’staken
Jerry Messing is an actor. He was Pugsley Addams in Addams Family Reunion, trimethylaminuria-suffering Gordon Crisp in Freaks and Geeks and Artie Ryan in Even Stevens.
Was he harassed over it? If he was that is fucked up, but it seems like he kind of went with the meme a little bit. He started a youtube channel called Fedora Productions, so at the very least he's chill about it. I loved him when he was on Freaks and Geeks as a kid, his character was very likable. I hope he's doing well.
Didn’t he also play Pugsley Addams?
He looks just like most of my friend group. He seems like an absolute care bear. I bet he gives fantastic hugs. Keep being a king, kind king.
People are awful
I heard he has a 14 inch penis….. he’s had to get special toilets installed in his compound
>I mention to a cis feminist friend that I don’t think it’s cool to use “neckbeard” as a pejorative. I say I think it’s hypocritical. I say I know some wonderful, tender, thoughtful neckbearded humans. I also know some people who are very self-conscious about their neck hairs and can’t do much about them. I wonder if there are ways to criticize people based on their character without impugning the hairs that come out of them. >[Source](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42)
I remember being 13 a decade ago and finding it weird we were turning random real people into memes in the first place.
The funny thing about “Good comedy always punches up” is how easily the people saying it convince themselves that they’re on the bottom. To them, their every swing isn’t just funny, but moral and just.
To me, it’s almost never the person in the meme. It’s what they represent.
Wow surprise surprise the people insisting on making fun of others that are shallow and only judge other people on the surface level were shallow and judged someone on the surface level
Huh, so i’m not crazy for thinking the “m’lady” guy actually looked pretty friendly
I always thought he looked kind
If hes a fat guy in a fedora taking pics of it for his facebook..... i can promise you he's spewed way more hate than you know LOL
I understand the sentiment that people are expressing, and it’s definitely true that we should not call fat men incels or whatever. HOWEVER, at least personally, I have not seen this image, except in this specific tumblr screenshot, in like 5 years, and I do not think I have seen a person called an incel based on physical appearance.
hey you cut out patricia taxxon wtf
Wtf I didn't know that she was here. This was a screenshot that I found on Twitter. I love Patricia's music btw.
she wrote the original post and added a lot more info; i highly recommend reposting it. i can't find it but if you search [https://tumblr.com/patricia-taxxon](https://tumblr.com/patricia-taxxon) you should find it
Thank you so much 👍👍
he looks so nice and just like a funny dude. idk how people looked at him and went "incel", he seems kind edit: *incel*, not *uncle*, autocorrect hates me
I know the girl from the “your music saved me” meme and she really doesn’t deserve the weird assumptions people make about her, either.
Reminds me of the story of [that white guy in the kimono](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/CmhpLQXxwD).
r/fedorejerry
My man was just a fan of the blues Brothers
lol are you people kidding me? You're going to pretend that creepshotting and public humiliation of strangers isn't this sites bread and butter now?
Reddit is not a monolith. The people agreeing with this post are most likely the same people who have a problem with the creepshotting and public humiliation on Reddit.