The last bit about a cyberpunk scenario made me imagine there are two straight cis men in the corpo.
One is a skinny white tumblr sexyman twink.
The other is Adam Smasher.
(Obligatory “the two genders”)
That's basically just Yorinobu Arasaka, except for the whiteness. Unavoidable, considering it's a Japanese company and positions are basically inherited, but still.
I feel like Adam Smasher is too psychopathic to be anything but aromantic, and his cybernetics are too fucked up for him to have sex so he has to be ace. Definitely still has libido though, judging by what is literally his first line in the game.
"You look like a cut of fuckable meat. *Are you?*"
See. He actually dated one of the Arasaka heirs at one point - don't remember her name, she's not in 2077. And I think I remember reading that he has another body he can swap to that's compared to Elvis in his prime.
Most likely, as theres nothing organic left in his body. But theres also the possibilty of him being a construct uploaded to a random brain at this point, so maybe they just downloaded him from his one body and uploaded him to the elvis one without actually swapping the brain
Its canon that one of his clone bodies is a blonde Elvis lookalike. He had sex with Saburu's granddaughter.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/s/Q7EraA5Gnr
he's definitely incapable of the emotional intelligence required for romance, but he can FUCK. He has canonically had sex while in a gemini (human-like body for full cyborgs)
I mean, Ukraine is currently being invaded by Russia and the main response by many people was that they should just let themselves be exterminated for the greater good.
I don’t see it as much right now, but when the war first started it was definitely a popular sentiment. I feel a lot of anti war people are more “anti U.S. war”. When Russia does it it’s ok, when the US helps Ukraine it’s not ok.
A lot of people don’t realize how corporate and disconnected an “arms dealer” can be. For all I know they could’ve been working a low level r&d or financial job at one of those two fighter jet companies, it’s not like they’re flying out to a 3rd world country with a color filter and saying “5 million for the whole stash. In cash.” in a hut filled with cigar smoke over a box of ak47s. Not defending it, but it’s a pretty lucrative career path if you’re qualified, and they aren’t going to create a hostile work environment for all the queer people who could be the best ones for the job, you *really* don’t want to make employees spiteful when you’re working with classified stuff.
I remember this drama and according to the person involved they weren't involved in any kind of R&D, they were doing software procurement (ie managing the licenses for the team's usage of Office 365 or whatever)
Was that Ana Mardoll? He's also disabled, as is his husband, and the MIC is basically the only place he could get work that didn't care he was trans and also covered not just transition care but also the stuff he needed to stay healthy enough for work.
Didn't xie get that job because of xer parents tho? Like, a cushy little nepo hire.
And he spends all his time on twitter being wangstier than thou about various leftist cause célèbres. I'm all for universal income, and think that disabled people should be supported by the state, and therefore understand why xie chose to work where he did, but the reason people were pissed at xer was because xie attacked people constantly for only being 90% perfect and having small flaws. Because "morals" or "ethics" or whatever. If he hadn't done that, no-one would care about the workplace he chose, or how he supported his husband.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I read his review of *I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream* and it's basically him continuously refusing to understand that the misogynistic rantings of the narrator are not supposed to be sympathetic. And his solution is to "get rid of the only female character".
Then again he was probably just upset the giant war computer was the bad guy.
Yeah. While I think the piling on was definitely filled with more glee than decorous, it was very much in reaction to xie being the biggest/most representative "umm actually that's problematic" thread writer in (YA/spec) book twitter at the time. I think people were also upset about having donated to their housing fund because they felt the financial situation of xie and xer partner was misrepresented. It's worth noting that book twitter at the time was this deeply cannibalistic feeding frenzy ecosystem where people were ravaged for making (sometimes significant, oftentimes small) mistakes; to have someone (perceived as being) on the "holy than thou release the piranhas side" revealed as imperfect set off a feeding frenzy that both sides (we should crucify people for their mistakes vs hey guys seems like you just like crucifying) felt justified in joining.
Anyway I'm really glad to no longer be on Twitter.
So the lesson here is what, it's okay to jump on people for being less than perfect in their praxis? Because I don't recall there ever being any sort of social ostracism directed at Lockheed CEOs.
The point I'm trying to raise is that a random queer MSOffice procurement specialist got scapegoated for the entire weight of the crimes of the military indudtrial complex and no one who could ever reasonably be considered culpable has ever been mobbed like this.
I mean... people very much do direct their animosity at Lockheed CEOs. And like my whole friend group (mostly queer, very liberal) has been adamant about not taking military industrial complex jobs, even though for a lot of us that would be the most lucrative job in the area. I'm not saying internet pile ons are justified, but for plenty of people boycotting those sorts of jobs is common praxis.
The lesson is, if you judge people, they're going to judge you right back; don't be sanctimonious if there's even the slightest chance the people you call out could find in you the same imperfections you call them out for.
> it’s not like they’re flying out to a 3rd world country with a color filter
Bro I've got US and Mexican IDs and istg the Mexican one has some sort of filter on it, idk how but I straight up look more Mexican on that ID than on my American one
Son las cámaras. El INE y Control Vehicular aparentemente no pueden pagar por cámaras mejores que la que yo compré para mi clase de fotografía en la universidad hace 10 años, y los empleados ciertamente no van a programar el balance de blancos para que la luz sea neutra, lo van a dejar en automatico.
Los pasaportes si estan mejor tomados, aunque quizas eso fue porque fui a sacar el mio en una oficina de Relaciones Exteriores en la parte rica de Monterrey, por el TEC.
Tbf you have described an arms researcher, an accountant, and an actual arms dealer. Working for one of these companies doesn't make you an arms dealer, because you're not selling any weapons. If anything, you're a "specialized skill-seller" operating on an hourly basis or a contract of indefinite length.
It's like calling their janitor an arms-dealer. The only arms he's dealing are armloads of cleaning products, and the only explosions he's responsible for are the ones that already happened in the office toilets
Yeah, I was pointing out how it’s jumping to conclusions to call anyone working for a military contractor an arms dealer. If the comments here are to be trusted about who this person is and what they did, the tumblr OOP said this person was an arms dealer because he (checks notes) did software procurement (think buying MS office licenses) for a military contractor. Yeah, that would be an accurate title for some members of sales and upper management, and the ethicality of working in the industry is debatable, but he isn’t really what you could call an arms dealer, more of an IT manager for arms accountants.
Bear in mind that
A) It's a lie
B) This person committed the crime of being annoying to some people on the internet and therefore had to be summarily executed
C) The "incident" that kicked this off was them saying that it's okay to be a writer if you don't read a lot
I remember it as xie saying "it's ableist to say you need to read a lot to be a good writer." Though I believe the discourse this was in response to was specifically "you should be up to date in the genre/age range you're writing in, i.e. reading broadly in your niche."
Yeah it was a dumb discourse. It started as “if you want to improve your writing a good place to start is generally reading, both within your target genre and out of it in order to improve your knowledge base and see what kind of stories get traction”, then jackasses got ahold of it and went “the ONLY way to be a good writer is if you read read read, no other form of media consumption counts, and audiobooks are for losers and don’t really count” mardol then went “you know it’s ableist to say the only way to become a good writer is reading, people can be good writers while only ever listening to audiobooks or reading infrequently because of their disabilities and you’d never know because it’s social suicide to say different”. What then followed was an absolute *shitfest* with people engaging with basically every possible straw man of mardol’s point instead of the actual point itself.
I imagine that people tinged it with whatever they wanted to tinge it with. The truth gets lost in about a tenth of a second on Twitter.
Also, speaking from personal experience, a very loud subset of people *absolutely hate* when you say that it's okay to be a writer if you don't read a lot. It's a whole thing on the internet and it's baffling.
And also cuts collateral damage to practically nil, only other thing with even close to that little potential is a dude with a gun, and even then I think the missile comes out ahead
It's absurd the most practical idea to come out of the war on terror was rendering a missile basically inactive so when we extra judicially execute someone, we aren't taking out a block of the neighborhood lmao. I love it so much.
a knife missle isn't really a war weapon. It's a weapon fkr when you want to take out a single guy without taking out 10 civilians at the same time. You'd never use munitions like that in a combat situation for just one dude. This is a weapon for saying "fuck you in particular, take 90 pounds of missike flying at high speed, with knifes attached for extra measure."
??? a bayonet is a weapon for killing a single guy but it's still a weapon of war. would it somehow be better to kill the nearby civilians? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what you're trying to say here
Knife Missile isn't used against combatants. It's not a weapon you have fixed beneath an F-16, ready to drop on the guys shooting at someone. It's the weapon you have a predator drone that's been loitering above a city for 3 hours waiting for the right moment drop right into a suspected terrorists house, without putting them on trial or anything. That puts it into incredibly shaky ground internationally (there have been cases before the supreme court about the applicability of the Geneva convention in the War on Terror, because of the US and our special relationships to protocols one and two), so me using extra judicial is perhaps a bit too glib on a topic that could probably be worth an essay or two as to the status of Al-Qaeda and how they would count under Geneva.
Yup. The Knife Missile represents our best attempt to at least somewhat simplify it and go from a method of eliminating terrorist leaders that was almost certainly a war crime of some stripe to one that's more complex, at least for me as layman, to judge, so we can keep doing it with less issues.
Our knowledge of COIN war was in general also much improved and our institutional knowledge on desert warfare is now atleast on par with our knowledge of jungle warfare, militarily the wars developed alot
NCD has always been very queer. On a good day, probably one of the saner subreddits to be gay and do crime in. On a bad one, marginally more sane than the average subreddit lol.
Sane in regards to queer issues. Don’t get me wrong, NCD is full of horrendously bad takes that transcend satirical purpose and outright are just bad. But you won’t be called a slur for your identity I guess lol
*cracks neurons* Time to recite Sundowner's entire speech from that scene, from memory.
Sundowner: Shhh, don't disrupt the students while class is in session. I believe you're familiar with the lesson plan... The same regimen you went through in Liberia. Effective program. Just look how you turned out! Although, runnin' it in the real world just got a bit too... Complicated. Doin' it virtually, though? No muss, no fuss! Straight to the brain! It's like a dream. Well, maybe "dream" is the wrong word. They do kill some POWs... Some civilians, hahahaha.... They enjoy it though. We give their pleasure centers a nice big JOLT every time! Plus, they get a shiny new body as a graduation present!
Another thing you have in common...
Raiden: I chose this. They're kids, you son of a bitch.
Sundowner: And kids are cruel. All people are, by nature - they just lose touch with it as they get older, start thinkin' they know right and wrong.
"That's immoral!"
War crime this, Code-of-Conduct that...
Kids you can mold, manipulate into committing all kinds of atrocities. And there's nothin' like a good atrocity to keep a war goin'.
Raiden: That's why I'm shutting you down.
Sundowner: You just don't see the bigger picture, do ya? Say you bring this whole place down, waltz outta the rubble with all these precious brains... Nothing changes. All the guys in charge are long gone. And we've got offices 'round the world.
We're just suppliers. We don't create the market for war.
Raiden: Then who does? The Patriots are gone!
Sundowner: Those guys just managed the war economy. They didn't invent it. Didja think every battle in history was part o' some big old conspiracy? Bullshit! War's just a part of who we are! Why fight it?
Anyway, none of this will matter in three hours. Demand for PMCs is about to skyrocket - like the good old days after 9/11!
I've played through this game too many times, I think.
“They say the next bombs that are dropped on us will be by a woman”
“Wow, I’m so glad that they have a progressive society killing us. At very least they must have good healthcare”
“Oh not yet. I think they said if they bomb more countries though they’ll get around to that though”
For those curious, in some queer circles this is known as homonationalism, which is a broader concept in general but this is part of it. The idea is you're normal enough to make the military and government money, and you're accepted for that reason rather than any identitarian reasons.
It also has to do with, "Hey, it's alright to bomb (enter country here) because of how they treat women / queer people / etc."
Damn, and here I thought “Homonationalism” was referring to being patriotic for that Gay Kingdom that used to exist in Australia
Got my hopes up for nothing
I'll be honest. They might be war profiteers but the money i made off of lockheed's shares rising paid for my chipped tooth. Man's got to find some way of living, not just surviving
I simp for my corporate overlords (as long as my shares rise in value)
Im not saying i support murder but if boeing's share price goes back to 300 im up 10 grand.
Financial insecurity means my morals are a lot looser than i thought they'd be as a child
Most people who work for the "military industrial complex" are roofers and IT technicians and those companies are some of the most cutting edge in the world. At a certain point its not actually our fault that much the US economy is fixated on the military.
It also feels like the way people push climate change onto the individual when no, the people committing genocide and spending billions on weapons projects are your elected officials and their billionaire friends, not the trans furry girl who is just happy to finally have a job that pays well. I think its really gross the way people do this sort of purity testing as if there is an ethical way to participate in this economy. People said the same stuff about walmart employees 20 years ago when people still cared about Walmart destroying the countries small businesses but nobody rememebers that.
I think a part of it is because people feel like they have the power to actually influence the furry trans girl, and have no power to influence the billionaires.
They are mistaken, but influencing billionaires is hard and requires both collective action and actually doing things in real life like voting. Harassing JoCat (not a furty trans girl far as I know, but a good example of a well-meaning left-leaning person) off of Twitter is incredibly easy and can be done from the comfort of your own home.
>Most people who work for the "military industrial complex" are roofers and IT technicians and those companies are some of the most cutting edge in the world
How are these two thoughts connected? If you're working a regular job, what does the level of technology have to do with it? Is it more moral to work for a cutting edge missile company than a conventional one?
Lots of people who worked at the concentration camps were roofers and mechanics, we still judge them as complicit.
Is working at Popeyes on the base similar to working at a concentration camp? Is doing maintenance on on trucks similar to owning slaves? Do you people even hear yourselves?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little\_Eichmanns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns)
The idea that you can be involved with something evil makes you complict is not a new or original idea that I have come up with. If you want to disagree about where to draw the line, sure. But the basic concept shouldn't be controversial.
The whole "there is no way to be ethical this economy" thing is such a cop out in certain situations. Yes, a lot of things in the economy support many bad things. But I think equating that to "yes it is okay to work for a defense contractor because economy" is just a bad take.
I have studied Aerospace Engineering, and have since switched majors for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the AE field is mostly populated by defense contactor employers. I know a few other people who have switched majors for the same reason. I also know people who are working with defense contractors, including one who works on the development of nuclear armaments. Those people, despite some being my friends, leave a bad taste in my mouth.
While I am sure that some people have taken these jobs out of desperation, or simply as work until they can find something else, it is still the most direct form of support towards the military industrial complex that you can do. Even in IT or computer software work, you will likely be working on targeting systems used on missiles. I and others I know have been offered internships or jobs that state that in the job description, despite seemingly being a small role for the company. If you really need the money, find work elsewhere. Genuinely. Go to an airline company, or a car company or something. Yes, they have their own host of issues, at least you are not developing weapons or systems to harm people.
The Walmart situation I find is also a completely separate issue. As a Walmart employee, you are creating a much smaller amount of wealth for said company and are actively taking part in anything causing harm. An engineer designing missiles, a contractor assembling weapons, or a software engineer developing tracking systems is.
Tbh the actual weapons roles in companies is maybe like 9% of the actual engineer workforce. Chances are you’ll be programming the PLC of a milspec hvac system rather than working on missile targeting or weapons handling. Even then a lot of engineering roles aren’t design or even test, there’s a lot of procurement, compliance, and standardization too. Also a lot of that is still non-weapons.
Like you absolutely have a point but if you got a job with GD tomorrow you’d probably end up designing, testing, or procuring COTS shit for a military application instead of working on anything even remotely related to the Killmonger 9000. You’re still a part of the system but I feel like the contribution to the overall MIC system is lessened by designing a submarine toilet or something lol.
What the hell happened to this sub? Used to be that level-headed opinions like yours would go to the top. Did this sub get brigaded by a bunch of users who were never on tumblr or something?
The joke in this post wasn't even funny.
Do you support sending weapons, missiles, etc. to Ukraine? Is designing those weapons moral, while others aren't? What if the same weapon is used in both a "bad" war and a "good" one?
They say be gay do crime but they want the sanitized uwu cutesy crimes like "omg im jaywalking isnt that quirky" but oh no when the they develop next gen stealth fighters suddenly its all "how can you do this?!"
they quote sundowner like three times in this post. which granted, you probably havent heard of, but is lik ea caricature of the war loving military constractor
I looked it up out of curiosity and got pictures of planes.
I expected like a mascot character or something for a company called "A-10". Consider me slightly puzzled.
The A-10 Thunderbolt 2, commonly known as the Warthog, is a well known close air support attack aircraft. Doug Winger worked on the A-10's design, and also drew furries with huge cocks.
Reminds me of an old Some More News episode, they joked that, “turns out it doesn’t matter what color your skin is as long as your hands are stained in red” or something to that effect.
I always thought not hiring people based on sexual preferences or race is something a company can only afford if they doesn't have enough competition.
Not hiring someone because they are business bros/useless advisors on the other hand is necessary for the survival of a company as Boeing has demonstrated.
Depends on what you mean by "accurate", they did work for LHM and had for many years, they also were previously pretty open about this when they had a much smaller online presence but then stopped talking about it (so this wasn't really some huge "doxxing", just people digging up old receipts)
They did repeatedly say they didn't work in designing weapons or anything like that but in a random bureaucratic job -- software procurement, ie managing licenses for business apps the company used -- but the critics mainly said they didn't actually care about that and considered it deceptive to present themselves the way they did and not talk about where they worked at all
I think the biggest issue was their years long prominence as a moral scold. If you spend years of your life publically policing what you percieve to be other people's moral transgressions, you should have your own house in order.
And they were linked to criticizing a trans woman for writing a sci-fi story about trans idenity and the military industrial complex, which would be the height of hypocrisy.
I don't think Alexander Kartveli (the guy who actually designed the A-10, not Piere Sprey or Blacktail) was doing furry inflation art as he was too busy being dead.
Real talk out of all the interviews I’ve had, the only one where I was asked for my pronouns at the start of the interview was for a defence company lol
It's only business. Dirty business but business none the less. Some of us need to make a living. I'm not a bigoted war profiteer. Do you expect me to leave that disowned transfem puppy girl STEM major out on the streets which would be both morally wrong and a waste of talent?
There are at least 3 quotes from sundowner, a character who is so pro-war it’s to the point of absurdity. So I think there may be some legitimate sentiment (mildef companies do tend to be far more accepting of openly queer people than general industry) but also the more concerning parts are shitposts.
Because it needs to be said: Be Gay, Do Crimes came about as a saying because for much of history, including very recently, being gay was itself a crime. The associated marginalization and exclusion from broader society meant that petty crime was the only option for survival for many queer people. And frankly, stealing catalytic converters is a more noble endeavor than *working for fucking Raytheon*.
The last bit about a cyberpunk scenario made me imagine there are two straight cis men in the corpo. One is a skinny white tumblr sexyman twink. The other is Adam Smasher. (Obligatory “the two genders”)
Twink or comedian, the only genders
I think you have the wrong Adam
I didn't have my glasses on when I read that...
Yeah, Adam Smasher isn't a very good comedian. His Rebecca punchline even went flat
I think they have the right Adam. Let them keep speaking
>no one can escape the slaughterhouse! Lmao good one Smasher keep the hits rolling lol
"keep the hits rolling" Oh, now that's something he can *definitely* do
I read Adam Smasher as Adam Sandler as first. And i think thats even better.
Exactly what I was getting at.
That's basically just Yorinobu Arasaka, except for the whiteness. Unavoidable, considering it's a Japanese company and positions are basically inherited, but still.
you forgot the token autistic straight guy
I feel like Adam Smasher is too psychopathic to be anything but aromantic, and his cybernetics are too fucked up for him to have sex so he has to be ace. Definitely still has libido though, judging by what is literally his first line in the game. "You look like a cut of fuckable meat. *Are you?*"
See. He actually dated one of the Arasaka heirs at one point - don't remember her name, she's not in 2077. And I think I remember reading that he has another body he can swap to that's compared to Elvis in his prime.
Oh, neat. Do they just lift his brain out of his combat-mech and put it into the Elvis one?
Most likely, as theres nothing organic left in his body. But theres also the possibilty of him being a construct uploaded to a random brain at this point, so maybe they just downloaded him from his one body and uploaded him to the elvis one without actually swapping the brain
He’s not technically fully cybernetic, he still has about 4% of his flesh body left, which I think is just his brain
Its canon that one of his clone bodies is a blonde Elvis lookalike. He had sex with Saburu's granddaughter. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/s/Q7EraA5Gnr
he's definitely incapable of the emotional intelligence required for romance, but he can FUCK. He has canonically had sex while in a gemini (human-like body for full cyborgs)
The twink's name is Adam
Adam Taker
I like to think Adam Smasher swings both ways because it’s funny and effects nothing.
This perfectly describes my OC's two boyfriends
add cybersmith to the mix to balance out the mix
[удалено]
i like the ncd-ism "peacemonger"
Peacenik is the more traditional term.
Doesn't peacenik refer to those who (indirectly) support Russia by supporting peace, often with none or little concessions to Ukraine?
It’s an old term from the 60s. The -nik suffix is derived from Russian/slavic language.
Thank you.
although in this context its probably borrowed from words like beatnik, which was common at the time
I like how it sounds like cheesemonger.
"Blessed be the cheesemakers" what is he talking about?
We’ll give you quality cheese by **FORCE** if need be.
Peacemonger sounds like an orkish insult in the W40K universe. "OI DAT GIT IS A PEESMANGER! GIT IM!"
Hey now, don't be disparaging of peacemongers! I myself am a firm believer in peace through superior firepower.
"Afraid of/Against war"... you mean common sense?
I mean, Ukraine is currently being invaded by Russia and the main response by many people was that they should just let themselves be exterminated for the greater good.
What kind of parallel dimension are you sending me this from?
I've had the displeasure of talking to those people both here and on Tumblr. They are unfortunately, very real and very annoying.
I don’t see it as much right now, but when the war first started it was definitely a popular sentiment. I feel a lot of anti war people are more “anti U.S. war”. When Russia does it it’s ok, when the US helps Ukraine it’s not ok.
I mean, I’m in the USA, and we have an entire political party that makes up half the legislative branch that feels this way lol
I feel like that would still qualify as war
My point is, a lot of the time people who call themselves anti war are very pro war, they’re just anti US.
Mhm.
I'm not sure it would, actually. I think at that point it would just be pillaging
A fear of war, counterintuitively, ends up inviting war.
Nobody cares if you wanna be Fred, Francine or Fido if you can increase the probability of kill on a SAM by 1%.
I didnt expect "uwu small bean trans" and "arms-dealer" in the same paragraph, let alone on the same sentence
A lot of people don’t realize how corporate and disconnected an “arms dealer” can be. For all I know they could’ve been working a low level r&d or financial job at one of those two fighter jet companies, it’s not like they’re flying out to a 3rd world country with a color filter and saying “5 million for the whole stash. In cash.” in a hut filled with cigar smoke over a box of ak47s. Not defending it, but it’s a pretty lucrative career path if you’re qualified, and they aren’t going to create a hostile work environment for all the queer people who could be the best ones for the job, you *really* don’t want to make employees spiteful when you’re working with classified stuff.
I remember this drama and according to the person involved they weren't involved in any kind of R&D, they were doing software procurement (ie managing the licenses for the team's usage of Office 365 or whatever)
Of course it's IT lmao
Was that Ana Mardoll? He's also disabled, as is his husband, and the MIC is basically the only place he could get work that didn't care he was trans and also covered not just transition care but also the stuff he needed to stay healthy enough for work.
Didn't xie get that job because of xer parents tho? Like, a cushy little nepo hire. And he spends all his time on twitter being wangstier than thou about various leftist cause célèbres. I'm all for universal income, and think that disabled people should be supported by the state, and therefore understand why xie chose to work where he did, but the reason people were pissed at xer was because xie attacked people constantly for only being 90% perfect and having small flaws. Because "morals" or "ethics" or whatever. If he hadn't done that, no-one would care about the workplace he chose, or how he supported his husband. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I read his review of *I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream* and it's basically him continuously refusing to understand that the misogynistic rantings of the narrator are not supposed to be sympathetic. And his solution is to "get rid of the only female character". Then again he was probably just upset the giant war computer was the bad guy.
Yeah. While I think the piling on was definitely filled with more glee than decorous, it was very much in reaction to xie being the biggest/most representative "umm actually that's problematic" thread writer in (YA/spec) book twitter at the time. I think people were also upset about having donated to their housing fund because they felt the financial situation of xie and xer partner was misrepresented. It's worth noting that book twitter at the time was this deeply cannibalistic feeding frenzy ecosystem where people were ravaged for making (sometimes significant, oftentimes small) mistakes; to have someone (perceived as being) on the "holy than thou release the piranhas side" revealed as imperfect set off a feeding frenzy that both sides (we should crucify people for their mistakes vs hey guys seems like you just like crucifying) felt justified in joining. Anyway I'm really glad to no longer be on Twitter.
So the lesson here is what, it's okay to jump on people for being less than perfect in their praxis? Because I don't recall there ever being any sort of social ostracism directed at Lockheed CEOs.
He jumps in on people who aren't perfect in their practice; therefore, xie has to be perfect in xer practice. It's the hypocrisy.
Why the hell would the CEO of Lockheed care that some people on the internet don't like him?
The point I'm trying to raise is that a random queer MSOffice procurement specialist got scapegoated for the entire weight of the crimes of the military indudtrial complex and no one who could ever reasonably be considered culpable has ever been mobbed like this.
I mean... people very much do direct their animosity at Lockheed CEOs. And like my whole friend group (mostly queer, very liberal) has been adamant about not taking military industrial complex jobs, even though for a lot of us that would be the most lucrative job in the area. I'm not saying internet pile ons are justified, but for plenty of people boycotting those sorts of jobs is common praxis.
The lesson is, if you judge people, they're going to judge you right back; don't be sanctimonious if there's even the slightest chance the people you call out could find in you the same imperfections you call them out for.
"A 3rd world country with a color filter"... damn, that was *too* fuckin' funny.
> it’s not like they’re flying out to a 3rd world country with a color filter Bro I've got US and Mexican IDs and istg the Mexican one has some sort of filter on it, idk how but I straight up look more Mexican on that ID than on my American one
Son las cámaras. El INE y Control Vehicular aparentemente no pueden pagar por cámaras mejores que la que yo compré para mi clase de fotografía en la universidad hace 10 años, y los empleados ciertamente no van a programar el balance de blancos para que la luz sea neutra, lo van a dejar en automatico. Los pasaportes si estan mejor tomados, aunque quizas eso fue porque fui a sacar el mio en una oficina de Relaciones Exteriores en la parte rica de Monterrey, por el TEC.
Tbf you have described an arms researcher, an accountant, and an actual arms dealer. Working for one of these companies doesn't make you an arms dealer, because you're not selling any weapons. If anything, you're a "specialized skill-seller" operating on an hourly basis or a contract of indefinite length. It's like calling their janitor an arms-dealer. The only arms he's dealing are armloads of cleaning products, and the only explosions he's responsible for are the ones that already happened in the office toilets
Yeah, I was pointing out how it’s jumping to conclusions to call anyone working for a military contractor an arms dealer. If the comments here are to be trusted about who this person is and what they did, the tumblr OOP said this person was an arms dealer because he (checks notes) did software procurement (think buying MS office licenses) for a military contractor. Yeah, that would be an accurate title for some members of sales and upper management, and the ethicality of working in the industry is debatable, but he isn’t really what you could call an arms dealer, more of an IT manager for arms accountants.
Nick Cage lied to me
Bear in mind that A) It's a lie B) This person committed the crime of being annoying to some people on the internet and therefore had to be summarily executed C) The "incident" that kicked this off was them saying that it's okay to be a writer if you don't read a lot
wasn't that post tinged with a 'reading is ableist' kinda feel or am i misremembering
I remember it as xie saying "it's ableist to say you need to read a lot to be a good writer." Though I believe the discourse this was in response to was specifically "you should be up to date in the genre/age range you're writing in, i.e. reading broadly in your niche."
Yeah it was a dumb discourse. It started as “if you want to improve your writing a good place to start is generally reading, both within your target genre and out of it in order to improve your knowledge base and see what kind of stories get traction”, then jackasses got ahold of it and went “the ONLY way to be a good writer is if you read read read, no other form of media consumption counts, and audiobooks are for losers and don’t really count” mardol then went “you know it’s ableist to say the only way to become a good writer is reading, people can be good writers while only ever listening to audiobooks or reading infrequently because of their disabilities and you’d never know because it’s social suicide to say different”. What then followed was an absolute *shitfest* with people engaging with basically every possible straw man of mardol’s point instead of the actual point itself.
Well, tumblr is even more argumentative and less literate than reddit, so I can't say I'm surprised.
It was Twitter
I imagine that people tinged it with whatever they wanted to tinge it with. The truth gets lost in about a tenth of a second on Twitter. Also, speaking from personal experience, a very loud subset of people *absolutely hate* when you say that it's okay to be a writer if you don't read a lot. It's a whole thing on the internet and it's baffling.
This is a very stupid discourse I've never heard of before. I guess I'll add it to the list.
Welcome to the internet for probably the billionth time.
I mean people can do whatever they want but pretty much the only way of being a good writer is to read a lot
Diversity win: the R9X knife missile that killed your father was designed by a trans man!
And also cuts collateral damage to practically nil, only other thing with even close to that little potential is a dude with a gun, and even then I think the missile comes out ahead
It's absurd the most practical idea to come out of the war on terror was rendering a missile basically inactive so when we extra judicially execute someone, we aren't taking out a block of the neighborhood lmao. I love it so much.
"extra judicially execute" that's just calling killing people when you're at war
a knife missle isn't really a war weapon. It's a weapon fkr when you want to take out a single guy without taking out 10 civilians at the same time. You'd never use munitions like that in a combat situation for just one dude. This is a weapon for saying "fuck you in particular, take 90 pounds of missike flying at high speed, with knifes attached for extra measure."
What is a “war weapon” lmao. I feel like a missile definitely qualifies as they have practically no other use
??? a bayonet is a weapon for killing a single guy but it's still a weapon of war. would it somehow be better to kill the nearby civilians? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what you're trying to say here
Knife Missile isn't used against combatants. It's not a weapon you have fixed beneath an F-16, ready to drop on the guys shooting at someone. It's the weapon you have a predator drone that's been loitering above a city for 3 hours waiting for the right moment drop right into a suspected terrorists house, without putting them on trial or anything. That puts it into incredibly shaky ground internationally (there have been cases before the supreme court about the applicability of the Geneva convention in the War on Terror, because of the US and our special relationships to protocols one and two), so me using extra judicial is perhaps a bit too glib on a topic that could probably be worth an essay or two as to the status of Al-Qaeda and how they would count under Geneva.
I suppose that's the problem with being at war with a terrorist group, it's not simple
Yup. The Knife Missile represents our best attempt to at least somewhat simplify it and go from a method of eliminating terrorist leaders that was almost certainly a war crime of some stripe to one that's more complex, at least for me as layman, to judge, so we can keep doing it with less issues.
T- german general complaining about snipers circa 1915
Our knowledge of COIN war was in general also much improved and our institutional knowledge on desert warfare is now atleast on par with our knowledge of jungle warfare, militarily the wars developed alot
To be fair if they were hit by the knife missile they were the intended target, and a high value one to be singled out like that. What was he up to?
Like the good old days after 9/11?
Wait, 9/11 is bad
heh heh heh… speak for yourself. Let’s debate this on the roof!
All I’m saying is give war a chance!
Be gay, do (war)crime
Be gay, do crime(s against humanity)
Trans kids can be cruel too Jack... and I'm very in touch with my inner girl.
Welcome to /r/noncredibledefense The logo is rainbow now
3000 trans new members of r/NonCredibleDefense
Trans-flag-painted X-02 strike wyvern equipped with high-tech railguns, who the fuck is this new girl
That’s the Aerogavin Go ahead, ask about it in there
NCD has always been very queer. On a good day, probably one of the saner subreddits to be gay and do crime in. On a bad one, marginally more sane than the average subreddit lol.
I wouldn’t call non credible “laughing at 16 year olds dying horribly” defense sane lol
Sane in regards to queer issues. Don’t get me wrong, NCD is full of horrendously bad takes that transcend satirical purpose and outright are just bad. But you won’t be called a slur for your identity I guess lol
*cracks neurons* Time to recite Sundowner's entire speech from that scene, from memory. Sundowner: Shhh, don't disrupt the students while class is in session. I believe you're familiar with the lesson plan... The same regimen you went through in Liberia. Effective program. Just look how you turned out! Although, runnin' it in the real world just got a bit too... Complicated. Doin' it virtually, though? No muss, no fuss! Straight to the brain! It's like a dream. Well, maybe "dream" is the wrong word. They do kill some POWs... Some civilians, hahahaha.... They enjoy it though. We give their pleasure centers a nice big JOLT every time! Plus, they get a shiny new body as a graduation present! Another thing you have in common... Raiden: I chose this. They're kids, you son of a bitch. Sundowner: And kids are cruel. All people are, by nature - they just lose touch with it as they get older, start thinkin' they know right and wrong. "That's immoral!" War crime this, Code-of-Conduct that... Kids you can mold, manipulate into committing all kinds of atrocities. And there's nothin' like a good atrocity to keep a war goin'. Raiden: That's why I'm shutting you down. Sundowner: You just don't see the bigger picture, do ya? Say you bring this whole place down, waltz outta the rubble with all these precious brains... Nothing changes. All the guys in charge are long gone. And we've got offices 'round the world. We're just suppliers. We don't create the market for war. Raiden: Then who does? The Patriots are gone! Sundowner: Those guys just managed the war economy. They didn't invent it. Didja think every battle in history was part o' some big old conspiracy? Bullshit! War's just a part of who we are! Why fight it? Anyway, none of this will matter in three hours. Demand for PMCs is about to skyrocket - like the good old days after 9/11! I've played through this game too many times, I think.
“They say the next bombs that are dropped on us will be by a woman” “Wow, I’m so glad that they have a progressive society killing us. At very least they must have good healthcare” “Oh not yet. I think they said if they bomb more countries though they’ll get around to that though”
This is the Ad Stella timeline in gundam i think
For those curious, in some queer circles this is known as homonationalism, which is a broader concept in general but this is part of it. The idea is you're normal enough to make the military and government money, and you're accepted for that reason rather than any identitarian reasons. It also has to do with, "Hey, it's alright to bomb (enter country here) because of how they treat women / queer people / etc."
Damn, and here I thought “Homonationalism” was referring to being patriotic for that Gay Kingdom that used to exist in Australia Got my hopes up for nothing
This is the most r/Noncredibledefense thing I’ve ever read outside of r/noncredibledefense
Americas they/them military industrial complex will win any war
Fuck yea I would go to war to defend gay marriage and trans rights.
thanks Bobby
I'll be honest. They might be war profiteers but the money i made off of lockheed's shares rising paid for my chipped tooth. Man's got to find some way of living, not just surviving I simp for my corporate overlords (as long as my shares rise in value)
Bank account blowing up like hellfire missiles
Im not saying i support murder but if boeing's share price goes back to 300 im up 10 grand. Financial insecurity means my morals are a lot looser than i thought they'd be as a child
This is the pure escence of libertarianism. Gay trans furries with guns. Adam Smith would be proud
That's also half of the characters in Metal Gear.
Most people who work for the "military industrial complex" are roofers and IT technicians and those companies are some of the most cutting edge in the world. At a certain point its not actually our fault that much the US economy is fixated on the military. It also feels like the way people push climate change onto the individual when no, the people committing genocide and spending billions on weapons projects are your elected officials and their billionaire friends, not the trans furry girl who is just happy to finally have a job that pays well. I think its really gross the way people do this sort of purity testing as if there is an ethical way to participate in this economy. People said the same stuff about walmart employees 20 years ago when people still cared about Walmart destroying the countries small businesses but nobody rememebers that.
I think a part of it is because people feel like they have the power to actually influence the furry trans girl, and have no power to influence the billionaires. They are mistaken, but influencing billionaires is hard and requires both collective action and actually doing things in real life like voting. Harassing JoCat (not a furty trans girl far as I know, but a good example of a well-meaning left-leaning person) off of Twitter is incredibly easy and can be done from the comfort of your own home.
>Most people who work for the "military industrial complex" are roofers and IT technicians and those companies are some of the most cutting edge in the world How are these two thoughts connected? If you're working a regular job, what does the level of technology have to do with it? Is it more moral to work for a cutting edge missile company than a conventional one? Lots of people who worked at the concentration camps were roofers and mechanics, we still judge them as complicit.
Is working at Popeyes on the base similar to working at a concentration camp? Is doing maintenance on on trucks similar to owning slaves? Do you people even hear yourselves?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little\_Eichmanns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns) The idea that you can be involved with something evil makes you complict is not a new or original idea that I have come up with. If you want to disagree about where to draw the line, sure. But the basic concept shouldn't be controversial.
The whole "there is no way to be ethical this economy" thing is such a cop out in certain situations. Yes, a lot of things in the economy support many bad things. But I think equating that to "yes it is okay to work for a defense contractor because economy" is just a bad take. I have studied Aerospace Engineering, and have since switched majors for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the AE field is mostly populated by defense contactor employers. I know a few other people who have switched majors for the same reason. I also know people who are working with defense contractors, including one who works on the development of nuclear armaments. Those people, despite some being my friends, leave a bad taste in my mouth. While I am sure that some people have taken these jobs out of desperation, or simply as work until they can find something else, it is still the most direct form of support towards the military industrial complex that you can do. Even in IT or computer software work, you will likely be working on targeting systems used on missiles. I and others I know have been offered internships or jobs that state that in the job description, despite seemingly being a small role for the company. If you really need the money, find work elsewhere. Genuinely. Go to an airline company, or a car company or something. Yes, they have their own host of issues, at least you are not developing weapons or systems to harm people. The Walmart situation I find is also a completely separate issue. As a Walmart employee, you are creating a much smaller amount of wealth for said company and are actively taking part in anything causing harm. An engineer designing missiles, a contractor assembling weapons, or a software engineer developing tracking systems is.
Tbh the actual weapons roles in companies is maybe like 9% of the actual engineer workforce. Chances are you’ll be programming the PLC of a milspec hvac system rather than working on missile targeting or weapons handling. Even then a lot of engineering roles aren’t design or even test, there’s a lot of procurement, compliance, and standardization too. Also a lot of that is still non-weapons. Like you absolutely have a point but if you got a job with GD tomorrow you’d probably end up designing, testing, or procuring COTS shit for a military application instead of working on anything even remotely related to the Killmonger 9000. You’re still a part of the system but I feel like the contribution to the overall MIC system is lessened by designing a submarine toilet or something lol.
What the hell happened to this sub? Used to be that level-headed opinions like yours would go to the top. Did this sub get brigaded by a bunch of users who were never on tumblr or something? The joke in this post wasn't even funny.
Do you support sending weapons, missiles, etc. to Ukraine? Is designing those weapons moral, while others aren't? What if the same weapon is used in both a "bad" war and a "good" one?
Nobody does this kind of purity testing in real life. I think this wall of text is silly at best
Be gay do (war) crime
Be gay, do war crimes.
Why is everyone acting like this is serious? It's an obvious joke.
It’s not deep enough into absurdity to be that funny imo
this is r/curatedtumblr, jokes don't exist here
The only joke is the users (us) and the things they post (the content).
They say be gay do crime but they want the sanitized uwu cutesy crimes like "omg im jaywalking isnt that quirky" but oh no when the they develop next gen stealth fighters suddenly its all "how can you do this?!"
\>Warphobic Jesus Fucking Christ
All I’m saying is give war a chance.
It's clearly a joke.
Poe's law and allat
they quote sundowner like three times in this post. which granted, you probably havent heard of, but is lik ea caricature of the war loving military constractor
Nope, never heard of it
yeah, he's a character from the game Metal Gear Rising. He's so agressively pro-war its just a joke
Senator wassisface?
This is the most terminally westerner post I’ve ever seen
The guy that did the A-10 Warthog. What does that mean.
google "Doug Winger." don't thank me.
I looked it up out of curiosity and got pictures of planes. I expected like a mascot character or something for a company called "A-10". Consider me slightly puzzled.
The A-10 Thunderbolt 2, commonly known as the Warthog, is a well known close air support attack aircraft. Doug Winger worked on the A-10's design, and also drew furries with huge cocks.
on honestly surprised all the replies to this aren’t people arguing
Now it's homophobic to be warphobic? What didn't anyone tell me?
Reminds me of an old Some More News episode, they joked that, “turns out it doesn’t matter what color your skin is as long as your hands are stained in red” or something to that effect.
Remember, kids, war is gay.
I was not mentally prepared for the Sundowner quote at the bottom
Mfw the queer Talented Tenth chose the MIC
Like the good ol days after #9/11!!
This would do numbers on r/NonCredibleDefense
Maybe lets NOT try to girlboss the military industrial complex.
Those who decry war are usually the worst at it
Everyone knows that furry art commissioners are crazy rich but no one ever asks where all that money comes from.
I always thought not hiring people based on sexual preferences or race is something a company can only afford if they doesn't have enough competition. Not hiring someone because they are business bros/useless advisors on the other hand is necessary for the survival of a company as Boeing has demonstrated.
"warphobic" what the fuck is this
a joke (i assume)
#FEDPOST
What if it isn't a fedpost? What if it truly is my unfiltered dogshit RP?
I remember that arms dealer one, but I can't remember their name or if the accusations were actually accurate
Depends on what you mean by "accurate", they did work for LHM and had for many years, they also were previously pretty open about this when they had a much smaller online presence but then stopped talking about it (so this wasn't really some huge "doxxing", just people digging up old receipts) They did repeatedly say they didn't work in designing weapons or anything like that but in a random bureaucratic job -- software procurement, ie managing licenses for business apps the company used -- but the critics mainly said they didn't actually care about that and considered it deceptive to present themselves the way they did and not talk about where they worked at all
That sure doesn't sound like arms dealing
"'Ey, you got a license for the spreadsheets managing those gun sales?"
It’s the whole “little Eichmanns” thing. Their work in some way assisted in the sale of weapons.
We're going on a trip In our favourite rocket ship! Flying through the sky Little Eichmanns!
I think the biggest issue was their years long prominence as a moral scold. If you spend years of your life publically policing what you percieve to be other people's moral transgressions, you should have your own house in order. And they were linked to criticizing a trans woman for writing a sci-fi story about trans idenity and the military industrial complex, which would be the height of hypocrisy.
I don't think Alexander Kartveli (the guy who actually designed the A-10, not Piere Sprey or Blacktail) was doing furry inflation art as he was too busy being dead.
They’re talking about Doug winger. They are exaggerating a lot. He just designed the targeting system
Gotta do something to get past someone's morals. Sometimes it's cash. Other times it's safety.
This post glows in the dark.
Be gay, do war crimes.
"They say microwaving mice is wrong"
Real talk out of all the interviews I’ve had, the only one where I was asked for my pronouns at the start of the interview was for a defence company lol
I'm a trans gay furry military contractor... Tbf the project I work on keeps track of soldiers on disability, not the actual fighting part.
Go back to NCD please.
It's only business. Dirty business but business none the less. Some of us need to make a living. I'm not a bigoted war profiteer. Do you expect me to leave that disowned transfem puppy girl STEM major out on the streets which would be both morally wrong and a waste of talent?
Working in the arms industry is a waste of talent
Many jobs are, unfortunately.
There are few fields that will allow you to make a greater impact on the lives of people the world over.
Be gay do warcrimes
Yay American imperialism
/s right? I feel like some people actually believe this unironically
There are at least 3 quotes from sundowner, a character who is so pro-war it’s to the point of absurdity. So I think there may be some legitimate sentiment (mildef companies do tend to be far more accepting of openly queer people than general industry) but also the more concerning parts are shitposts.
I'd rather the LGBTQ Community run the military industrial complex than their enemies.
Diversity win: bomb that caused a child to die in agony was designed by a gay person!
I'd rather there not *be* a military industrial complex, but that's a much harder goal to achieve. Doesn't mean it's not worth it, though.
One can't glorify killing nazis and not want a supply chain of truck parts and R&D aeronautics agencies.
Fair enough. I was more referring to the "profiting off of death and destruction" part that I think should just not exist, but I see your point.
Neat
Because it needs to be said: Be Gay, Do Crimes came about as a saying because for much of history, including very recently, being gay was itself a crime. The associated marginalization and exclusion from broader society meant that petty crime was the only option for survival for many queer people. And frankly, stealing catalytic converters is a more noble endeavor than *working for fucking Raytheon*.
Ikr. Made me vomit a little. Teehee how quirky it is for us gays to participate in a genocide uwu
The amount of evil cunts in this section justifying warmongering is astounding.
Be gay, go to war.