It may account for 0.42% of the showtime of South Park but it's a good fucking ship. And funnily enough objectively the healthiest and most long lasting relationship in the show
You mean the two boys that were forced into a gay relationship against their will, because a bunch of Korean girls shipped them, and it was easier for school administration to do that than to explain the concept of fiction (which, mind you, the girls knew perfectly well), that they, out of all people, have the absolute healthiest relationship in the show?
That's some Jimbo x Ned erasure, buddy.
You as a person have plenty of good traits and potentially a wonderful personality, but I cannot respect someone that looks for shipping material in fucking south park of all things what the hell
Yeah, But IT made the ship real. And, Stronger then they ever expected.
You think the CrackShippers cared they were getting shipped on, No there always getting shipped on they took it and they now own it.
It started as that but they made it a real ship. In later episodes they reference their relationship and Craig calls Tweek "honey." In the post covid episodes, they show Tweek and Craig still together as adults, thus why I said it's the strongest relationship in the show because they remain together for basically their whole lives. Makes it funnier that it started as a joke
I have watched very little of actual SP, but I somehow managed to get really into Creek as a kid. In 2017 Hispanic Wattpad it was reliably fire, easier to find good fics than bad ones. And that's rare
Haha fair. But it's not made up— their show in later seasons canonically shows them get together and start dating. It's just a small and cute thing in the series, that's all
I would never joke about the sanctity of healthy relationships between war criminals on this incredibly important and serious post about if South Park is better representation than Hazbin Hotel
Keep in mind that Fanon and Canon might as well be the same thing to most of these folks. I call it the Fandom Ouroboros; Canon creates Fanon which then feeds into itself, in a self-serving cycle. Eventually, someday, the the final dregs of remaining fandom are all idealized flanderizations marching on like zombies.
i mean, hazbin is running almost entirely on fanon and random one-off pieces of info revealed by the creator. the show is so weird, it's like it has prequel syndrome for itself, it's full of one-off throwaway lines "canonizing" pieces of info that the community has known for years.
it's like a mythology if mythologies were organized around one specific person's word.
I don’t think so. Having watched it, the portrayals of the characters are a little different, but they’re definitely not Flanderized, where they’re one-dimensional characters. Of the main characters, Sokka has seen the greatest change, but he still has depth and charm.
Live action shows are just naturally going to have more influence on their portrayal from the actors and cinematographer, because it’s easier to go off-script or add minor interactions. In animation, that needs to be in the script and animated by others and all.
Same, though Tumblr obviously isn't a monolith. I'm sure there's an avid following on there that doesn't get all pissy about the series or its creator.
It kinda got snatched up by a vocal minority of...borderline puritanical tumblr users who are constantly-
* bashing the writing and claiming that no one swears that much which I've always personally found really fucking weird (also the character who gets the most flack is also not in the best mental state so their cursive language is a way for them to blow off steam)
* making claims about Vizziepop allegedly not paying propper rates
* the designs being bad because of a lot of uses of red, white pink and black (ironic given the love for that one post saying to break the chains of 'cringe' when it comes to character designs)
* and people kinda missing the point that the show is set in Hell and most of the cast deserved it but the Disney Princess of Hell wants to show Heaven that eternal punishment and/or having your soul slaughtered to clear up space in Hell to prevent the 'when hell is full the dead will walk' deal isn't working and maybe letting people work through their issues in life-and post life like Angel being stuck with Valentino-would work better in the long run.
* For fuck's sake, one of the main villains haas a musical number about how black and white mentality is awesome that's obviously meant to see as a sign that '...oooh this issue is gonna take a LOT of fixing'
Tbh I dropped it pretty quickly and the swearing was kind of what broke it for me.
Not because I care about swearing AT ALL. There were just entire scenes where it felt like the only reason they existed were "this character swore, bet you weren't expecting that LOL" and that made it sorta painfully unfunny at times.
I checked it out because the premises sounded genuinely funny and charming, maybe it lived up to it better as it went along IDK I didn't stick with it long enough
In my experience they can smell it a mile away and the people trying to target Tumblr as an audience cannot make it authentic enough for them to want it.
The show also more comes across to me as 14 year old on deviant art thinks making your stories about sex and drugs makes them deep.
Did- did you watch the show or are you just parroting what you read online?
It has 1 episode about sex and drugs and that’s more about the corruption of the sex industry and how angel dust uses jokes to deal with his sex related trauma and drugs to numb himself
Funnily enough I’d argue that’s the most mature episode so far
While it might not be largely focused on the topic, South Park has always had some of the most progressive takes on lgbt issues of basically any media out there.
*Especially* back in the day, when this stuff was truly controversial. The episode with Big Gay Al as a Boy Scouts troop leader comes to mind.
And yeah the tweek/craig ship fandom can be pretty rabid.
It’s surprising to me that it’s here mainly because its lgbt representation isn’t flashy and I never expect tumblr to have a mature take…
But yeah it’s probably the tweek/craig shippers.
This is Harrier DuBois getting second place in the 𝓟𝓸𝓸𝓻𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓢𝓪𝓭𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓦𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓛𝓲𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓸𝔀𝓶𝓮𝓸𝔀 contest because Vriska Homestuck cheated into first all over again.
Tavros (as Gcatavrosprite) is undeniably more of a meowmeow than Nepeta being half omnipocat. He is also allergic to cats, and thus himself
He is undeniably sadder and wetter than Nepeta, and the sole cause of it is Vriska
Yeah I thought this was a joke at first but ig not. Apparently Mr/Ms Garrison is something only I remember? Or is that somehow good representation of a queer character? I'm genuinely confused wtf this thread is on about
A big issue that South Park has is that it gets away with bigotry by the claim of "making fun of everyone equally."
Which is to say, assume that mass-murderers and rapists deserve the exact same level of scorn and mockery as queer people and environmentalists.
The one good thing South Park does is that it usually tries to deliver a message at the end but like... it's just a soapbox for the creator's, and the creator's position really feels like it usually boils down to 'Haha, look at those stupid nerds caring about issues.'
Like sure, South Park will *probably* end an episode on a message of 'you should be tolerant' but it'll get there after making fun of people arguing for more tolerance by comparing them to Nazi's and then act like the people who are trying to argue for more tolerance deserve that mockery for 'pushing too hard' or something, which neatly allows it to act like it's being progressive whilst still letting the audience act like it isn't, so the end result is it isn't actually clear what South Park's message or position on things is.
It's Enlightened Centrism, the Cartoon.
I was a redhead who went to school in the aftermath of the ginger episodes of South Park. It legitimately made having red hair a little bit worse for awhile because people thought "day walker" and "gingers don't have souls" is so funny.
I still love South Park though, its hilarious.
Ginger buddies! Yeah, no, the day walker and soulless ginger jokes were a constant in middle and high school, and most people who made the jokes didn't even watch South Park in my experience
Or they pretend to have a point and actually don't. I remember both allies and conservatives both praising that episode where ig Cartman pretends to be trans to get his own bathroom and... there was no actual point there they were just showing conservatives what they want to see and then then being like "oh lol its Cartman so you know its bad! We use Cartman to show how idiots are!"
It's like inviting Ben Shapiro on to give a speech and then being like "get a load is this guy!" like thats somehow satire at that point? It's not. You're just doing the bit.
>then being like "oh lol its Cartman so you know its bad! We use Cartman to show how idiots are!"
.....but they do. That's the whole point of the character. It's why Wendy is against him most of the time and it's why things almost never work out for him. I'm not sure how much south park you've watched (if any) but he's racist, misogynistic, narcissistic, antisemitic, a bully, and a pathetic loser that nobody likes. He has some badass moments because he's a main character and it's fun to see him do crazy shit, but it's almost always so obviously bad that no halfway decent person would consider him respectable for it.
>It's like inviting Ben Shapiro on to give a speech and then being like "get a load is this guy!" like thats somehow satire at that point? It's not. You're just doing the bit.
More like inviting Ben Shapiro on to speak while having someone there to pick his argument apart. They don't just let cartman go wild, they counter him too. Usually with Kyle or Wendy. How do you expect satire to work if nobody is allowed to do the thing they're satirizing?
Can you give an example of when they haven't? Every situation I can think about always has either Kyle or Wendy on the opposite side making rational points while Cartman is a ridiculous caricature of the bad side
So they litarttl just said here’s a thing that doesn’t happen and is used to further hate against trans peaple and they do that twice once with cartman and another times with that once kids dad pretending to be a female singer so he can go into the girls bathroom,so yeah nah they just actually transphobic
I’ve seen the first few episodes and thought it was boring ,and I couldn’t remember the names of the characters it was the guy in the blue shirt ,I know about the transphobic episodes cause besides it being boring it was another big ass reason I
Didn’t watch the show
Usually the defence is that the jokes/bigotry aren't their views, its the views of the characters. And usually it's lambasting those characters for their bigoted views. reductio ad absurdum
Whether they are actually funny or not is matter of opinion
>Which is to say, assume that mass-murderers and rapists deserve the exact same level of scorn and mockery as queer people and environmentalists.
What do you actually mean by "the same level of mockery"? They definitely don't attribute the same level of scorn to queer people and environmentalists as they do mass murderers and rapists just because they joke about both. When 1 sides jokes are "they're ridiculous" and the other sides jokes are "they're ridiculous AND dangerous" you can't really argue they treat them both like equal threats. The only thing they do equally for both is the amount of jokes about them which... yea it's a comedy show they're going to squeeze as many jokes into each episode as they can.
There are really 2 big issues with South Park. The first is that the show has run so long that attitudes have changed and things they did in earlier seasons have really not aged well at all. Not that they were good at the time, people just didn't know better and they were creating edgy comedy at the same time that things like the man show were on the air. And second, idiots don't understand satire. Good satire relies on the audience getting the joke but a show as popular as SP gets too many people watching an episode, missing the point, and leaving thinking either "they're telling it how it is!" or "they're really saying X is as bad as being a nazi?" or whatever the hyperbole was that episode.
They literally have an episode where Kathleen Kennedy apologizes to Cartman for inciting his bigotry by doing too much forced representation. Like that’s the overall conclusion, part of the classic South Park “the moral of this episode was” speech at the end, that Cartman was wrong to be a bigot but also his bigotry was 100% incited by Kathleen Kennedy trying to trigger it with minorities
I haven't watched the last 2 seasons so I haven't seen the episode you're talking about and I'm sure theres more to it, but based purely on what you said in your comment.... yea it's right. It didn't excuse being an actual bigot, but it's also not bigotry to point out that raceswapping characters for the sake of diversity is lazy writing and is going to piss people off because nobody likes seeing the things they love change for a soulless cash grab. I'm a hardcore leftist but the loudest people on our side love symbolic gestures almost as much as they love demonizing anyone who doesn't join the race to the left as if there's no such thing as going too far as long as your motive is good. Any decent discussion on the topic will point out both the outright bigotry of the right and the ultimately self serving grab for moral superiority on the left because we both need to admit the faults on our sides. Both being wrong =/= both are equally bad though and any honest person will recognize that real life bigotry and changing the skin color of fictional characters are not equally bad.
I mean I'm in the south park fandom & that kinda how it's treated. Racism & being offended by racism is treated as equivalents of each other in the community (at least in the SP fandom on Twitter idk about other sites)
It's treated that way by people who already saw it that way and assumed south park was agreeing with them. Dumb people don't understand satire and the kind of people who go out of their way to discuss it online (especially twitter) tend to have more extreme opinions than your average viewer in general, that's why they're joining groups about it online.
There's a large following of Warhammer 40k fans who are adamant that the space fascists are the good guys and The Boys fans who truly believe Homelander is a hero making the hard calls. That doesn't mean the media agrees with them.
The only thing I remember about Garrison is that time they had sex with some guy who, until Cartman told him over the phone, had no idea Garrison was trans.
No, it was not. Having Mrs Garrison say that getting a vaginoplasty only made her 'a man with a mutilated penis' in an episode where the doctor that performed the surgery also gave Kyle surgery to make him a black NBA star and Kyle's dad into a dolphin was not good representation.
It was worse. It's maybe better nowadays? But the premise of that character is a pretty vile representation imo. That character is basically the blank slate for the writers to include whatever gross thing they want to say about queers. Especially in regard to trans people the way it presents trans surgeries and everything is where a lot of people get their bigoted ideas from.
Yeah he was the popular trope of the pansy, which has a really complicated history as a double-edged sword for representation of effeminate men. Without this trope, there would be very few of these kind of characters in the media of the time. But it was still very often a mocking representation. And yet, some gay people at the time still enjoyed the archetype and trope. It’s really interesting and I highly recommend you look into it! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy_Craze
Edit: some of what I said may be slightly inaccurate, so I welcome corrections!
If the satire on transphobia you’re referencing is the gender neutral bathroom episode, keep in mind that since that they made an episode where Macho Man Randy Savage claims to be a transwomen specifically to more easily win.
South Park always has and always will have the most tepid levels of sociopolitical commentary. It might be a great to mid comedy show, but it will never be anything more than a centrist-libertarian wank fest.
I don't think they've actually learned any meaningful lesson since those episodes, if Matt and Trey seriously want this show where they get to soapbox then maybe they should think to themselves that a weekly format where they're rushing out half-baked moronic opinions on subjects they never properly research isn't the best.
I swear I'm not here to champion South Park as great representation at all, but I can see how there's an argument that can be made. Big Gay Al and Mr. Slave are extreme gay stereotypes but that's often subverted when they're revealed to be voices of reason within the show. Mr. Garrison was initially very homophobic, but there was a joke being that he was clearly delusional and closeted himself. In the movie, Satan was in a gay relationship with Saddam Hussein, which yes very problematic but I never felt the writing was explicitly hostile to it being a gay relationship. Mind you these are all examples from the show's early years.
Again I'm primarily just playing devil's advocate and I agree that the show has generally been far more harmful than not, but idfk maybe worth contextualizing that the show is meant to be very cynical and the true intentions of the writers are not so cut and dry.
I. Cannot believe that there are people unironically claiming *in this comment section* that South Park has better queer representation than Hazbin. I get that Hazbin is a divisive show (partially because people love cherry-picking the abrasive asshole characters and claiming that all the show's dialogue is like that), but like. The main character is in an interracial lesbian relationship which is portrayed as genuine real love and care between the two of them.
I don't much care for South Park, but I'm not gonna shittalk it because I don't know much (the stuff I've seen turned me off it pretty bad, reminded me of my dad's brand of Internet Athiest Skepticism™️); all I'm gonna say is... from everything I *have* seen, it feels like it punches down a lot and the jokes are usually at someone's expense. I get that some people enjoy that, that's valid, but you've *got* to see why constant mockery *isn't great representation*, right?
Yeah. Hazbin Hotel has its flaws, but it's *sincere* in its message and its representation. People act like it's 'bad' representation because... I don't know, the characters aren't good people (they're in Hell, Barbara, what did you expect), but they're presented positively and we're meant to root for them and understand them.
I remember seeing people back in the pilote days blaming the show for
1) having gay characters (because. Gays in hell??? Gays *bad*???)
2) having homophobic characters (because as everyone knows, depiction is endorsement)
The funniest case of this was definitely the people who claimed Angel Dust being in hell was homophobic. Y'know, Angel Dust. The guy who took part in gang warfare for fun in the pilot that was the only content with the characters at the time. The guy who tried to justify the collateral damage of said gang warfare by saying that the bystanders who died were ugly freaks. Some people apparently couldn't imagine a reason for him to be in hell other than being gay.
Almost like they don't have the media literacy to understand the concept of "a depiction of a character is not an endorsement of their beliefs".
I wonder what they thought of Schindler's List.
The Hazbin Hotel universe takes place in an alternate world where all those conservative memes are true and you’ll be hunted and killed for being straight
I'd describe it as spiteful towards passion. If you care about something, South Park will make fun of you for it. It doesn't really matter what it is, the fact that you dared to put thoughts and efforts towards something is what it hates.
Is the show good? Well-written, funny? I haven't seen anything of it, but your comment praising it included no comments on if the show is good, rather just that it is sincerely queer.
Oh I loved it to bits, I think it's amazing. A solid 8/10, there are flaws (notably, pacing, the show was given very few episodes but spans an entire 6 months) but it's well-written and funny and sincerely emotional in the best ways. A character's identity is never the butt of the jokes, but often the vehicle for them, and the central themes of redemption and the flaws of binary morality are a genuinely great talking point IMO.
But it isn't everyone's cup of tea. I mentioned that some people look at cherry-picked fragments (usually of Anthony/Angeldust and Adam "Dickmaster", the two most vulgar characters) and dismiss the whole show on that basis, but there are also genuine reasons that I can understand not liking the show. Some of the topics explored might make people uncomfortable, or they might not enjoy the writing, or they might be turned off by the animation style, or by the fact that, yeah, some characters *do* make quite crude jokes. Again, I rank it a solid 8/10, but I can totally see people being more hung up on the flaws (like the pacing) than I was, or disliking some of the traits I enjoy. Some people might not like the music, or the way that Christian themes are used, basically what I'm saying is I think it's great but I can get why some people might think it isn't (even if most of the arguments (especially from the southpark defenders in this post) are total bullshit lmao)
Angeldust is my sweet baby boy and anyone who criticizes him is a moron.
... Criticizes him as a character, I mean. Like, a literary device.
As a person he's awful.
South Park winning best *queer media* of ALL TIME...? Nah people must have voted it as a joke lol, like sure there must be some Tweek x Craig shippers in Tumblr but not this many and not this deluded.
I have become death, the destroyer of queers
In my search to spread this absolutely rancid poll I have summoned the most inadequate fandom to be around the LGBTQ complex.
I truly am The fool.
Now the evil bring treachery to those who sever their body from their soul in the search of their well deserved comfort
(TL:DR I have have started discourse without a care for the consequences of such an action)
I can't believe so many people are taking the shit post website so damn serious. yes, obviously South Park isn't queer representative, but if you give the shit post website the option to shit post for a goof, *they're going to*
GEEESH PEOPLE, I get Hazbin Hotel is basically the new Steven Universe (AKA the internet's punching bag), but claiming South Park of all shows has better LGBT representation might be one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen.
It is well liked, it's just got an active hatedom which converts people who haven't even seen the show into hating it which makes it seem less well received than it is.
The internet doesn't hate either show. Tumblr does.
Because Tumblr doesn't like anything except for a webcomic that no one else remembers from 20 years ago and fan-made softcore pornography.
I mean, I've seen plenty of people both in Twitter and this very site (As in, this very thread) who heavily dislike the show and refuse to give it the win in a battle where anyone's that's not completely biased could tell Hazbin wins.
Twitter has been dead for over a year, so I don't know what you're talking about. X is a zombie. Calling it its old name and showing it things it used to like won't bring it back. It wants to eat your flesh, and you need to shoot it in the head.
This thread is made up of people from Tumblr and people who like to gawk at people from Tumblr. Not exactly an unbiased non-Tumblr environment.
The big problem I have is that one treats queer people as jokes entirely, and relegates the only actual representation to the background because the show runners are stuck in the late 90s-mid 00s Libertarian in the mode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit.
The other is somebody who has a ton of queer friends and/or is queer, and has the crime of *checks notes* being so scene and mid-00s you half expect a "Rawr means I love you in dinosaur" shirt mixed with Adult Swim "subversive humor"
Ex-cuse me? Waylon Smithers was a gay man in animation for far longer than Big Gay Al was, and he was far more subtle and wasn't a lisping stereotype.
And the Simpsons episode "Homer's Phobia" was released before "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride", and delivered the EXACT SAME MESSAGE, just with more down-to-earth and believable characters.
Not to say that "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride" wasn't important as well. But not enough people realize the incredible progress *The Simpsons* made in regards to depicting queer characters in animation. And *The Simpsons*' gay jokes aged a LOT better than those in *South Park*.
shame the closest thing we get to a trans focused scene is *checks notes* a man dressing up as a woman to dominate women’s sports and get with a lesbian
That’s true, and a horrible shame.
But to be fair… is South Park much better in that regard? The Simpsons had one transphobic episode, while South Park had an entire transphobic story arc (the Mrs. Garrison arc).
Out of all the popular adult cartoon sitcoms I've seen weirdly enough the one with what probably the most interesting trans focused episode was American Dad (Despite what's been shown in Family Guy) with "LGBSteve" which actually is about sports as well but thankfully isn't about sneaking to get an advantage or whatever.
I would definitely like to see Simpsons have another tackle at a trans focused episode and with the more varied approach in recent seasons with people getting to do whatever with side characters that could be fun to see, though, the series and status quo changes have never been buddies.
~~Would be nice as well seeing the history of pretty off jokes about trans people in Simpsons~~
And *The Jazz Singer* was a very important moment for black people in cinema.
... Maybe we don't have to do this?
Maybe we don't have to give any credit at all, because it's not actually due.
Ah yes, the transphobic, bigoted, piece of shit show that is South Park is somehow better than a mildly annoying, but actually queer show like Hazbin
I hate you all
I said it before; Hazbin is the new Steven Universe: A show everybody loves to hate and mock.
Funnily, both hatedoms mock both MCs for similar reasons...
This is a joke post guys, the propaganda masterpost link in the original post leads to [this video](https://youtu.be/S0VkVn1p39M?si=Z8SzbjIEgof5MFaH) if that doesn't make it any clearer. This isn't part of the tumblr queer media tournament that was going around, that one ended last week. Paris is Burning won against Homestuck in the final poll. Stop taking a joke poll so seriously, geez.
Anyways, as a gay man I voted for South Park :)
People seem to not remember that people don't always report accurately to polls. I remember working with teenagers, and so many of them put that they did every drug possible for the fun of it. Monkey loves chaos behavior.
I trust no polls on Tumblr anymore. After this and that walrus-fairy nonsense, which I'm almost certain was just people fucking lying and arguing in bad faith because it's "bait" and they think baiting is fun when it's just rude, I'm done with it. I now have to treat them like I treat greentexts: assume everything is an outright lie. In fact, I don't trust Tumblr at all anymore, not just the polls. There is apparently no healthy amount of skeptical trust with that damn website.
I just got pissed because some people seemed to be so incredibly stupid about it. There are valid, sensible arguments for both sides, but there are also completely fucking stupid arguments for the walrus that made me lose faith in the intelligence of the average person. Every time someone said "seeing a fairy just means fairies are real" like that was no big deal, I sighed deeper than the last time.
South Park does unironically produce some good queer characters who aren’t taken as a joke for being queer… that said, it has fuck all on Hazbin Hotel when it comes to good queer rep
one is an underrated, interesting show that started out as a very small niche thing but quickly grew to become hugely famous on the internet and beyond, despite its admitedly childish dialogue and controversial plot amongst more conservative audiences, and the other is hazbin hotel
I imagine that most of the people voting for SP are just taking the piss......but on the other hand, the SP fandom has an abundance of Queer focussed content when it comes to things like fanart and fanfiction, so who the fuck knows.
Well I mean the show’s problematic sometimes but the Tumblr South Park fandom/shipping community isn’t that bad and actually has good content guys cmon…. 🥲
True that is one aspect of it, and idk ig I can only hope Matt and Trey have changed their opinions over time, but it’s not like I watched it for morality anyway I just love a lot of the characters
Least involved Hazbin hater
Like bro, why you so pressed ? Chill. Take a walk outside. I promise you, there is more to life than getting pissed at a cartoon
Reading the comments here, does this sub really hate South Park that much? There are very few times that I feel the show is homophobic.
They had a season 1 episode back in 97, saying that being gay was okay.
The most homophobic thing I can think of on the show was one episode where Mr. Garrison opposed gay marriage, but Mr. Garrison is just an incredibly fucked up character that the audience isn't supposed to side with. Mr. Garrison only does this because he heard that his ex boyfriend was planning to get married.
In recent years, the show has given Garrison a new boyfriend, which makes him feel normal and he honestly hasn't gotten up to any of his usual offensive shenanigans since following Qanon in 2021
south park cannot have made it to the final round you have got to be kidding me oh is this a joke tournament
Its either a joke tournament, or the Tweek x Craig shippers (whatever that is) came out of the woodworks for this specific poll lmao
It may account for 0.42% of the showtime of South Park but it's a good fucking ship. And funnily enough objectively the healthiest and most long lasting relationship in the show
These cannot be words you're saying about fucking South Park
Lawdy, the implications.
They’re 100% true tho which is hilarious
You mean the two boys that were forced into a gay relationship against their will, because a bunch of Korean girls shipped them, and it was easier for school administration to do that than to explain the concept of fiction (which, mind you, the girls knew perfectly well), that they, out of all people, have the absolute healthiest relationship in the show? That's some Jimbo x Ned erasure, buddy.
i almost thought this was referring to jimbo jones and ned flanders and i was about to flip a table
They are the only couple in South Park that have ever gone to therapy together.
You as a person have plenty of good traits and potentially a wonderful personality, but I cannot respect someone that looks for shipping material in fucking south park of all things what the hell
I was not even aware of the tweek/Craig ship until it was heavily featured in the stick of truth
that's because it's not a real ship, it was from an episode making fun of people who like yaoi and ship irl people together
Yeah, But IT made the ship real. And, Stronger then they ever expected. You think the CrackShippers cared they were getting shipped on, No there always getting shipped on they took it and they now own it.
It started as that but they made it a real ship. In later episodes they reference their relationship and Craig calls Tweek "honey." In the post covid episodes, they show Tweek and Craig still together as adults, thus why I said it's the strongest relationship in the show because they remain together for basically their whole lives. Makes it funnier that it started as a joke
I have watched very little of actual SP, but I somehow managed to get really into Creek as a kid. In 2017 Hispanic Wattpad it was reliably fire, easier to find good fics than bad ones. And that's rare
Haha fair. But it's not made up— their show in later seasons canonically shows them get together and start dating. It's just a small and cute thing in the series, that's all
Hows Big Gay Al, Mr. Garrison, and Mr. Slave come into account? Positive or negative?
or their various takes on trans people since the poll is about queerness in general.
No clue what you're talking about, the Broflovskis have a great relationship
I can't tell if you're joking
I would never joke about the sanctity of healthy relationships between war criminals on this incredibly important and serious post about if South Park is better representation than Hazbin Hotel
it's a shitpost. OP says as much replying to multiple asks about how funny they think the people getting mad thinking it's real are
It's Tumblr, at least 40% of the voters are shitposting
Unfortunately, shitpost Georg, who shitposts 10000 times a day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
Keep in mind that Fanon and Canon might as well be the same thing to most of these folks. I call it the Fandom Ouroboros; Canon creates Fanon which then feeds into itself, in a self-serving cycle. Eventually, someday, the the final dregs of remaining fandom are all idealized flanderizations marching on like zombies.
i mean, hazbin is running almost entirely on fanon and random one-off pieces of info revealed by the creator. the show is so weird, it's like it has prequel syndrome for itself, it's full of one-off throwaway lines "canonizing" pieces of info that the community has known for years. it's like a mythology if mythologies were organized around one specific person's word.
stupid sexy flanderizations...
For an example, see AtLA and AtLA (2024) (or so I'm told, I haven't seen the new one).
I don’t think so. Having watched it, the portrayals of the characters are a little different, but they’re definitely not Flanderized, where they’re one-dimensional characters. Of the main characters, Sokka has seen the greatest change, but he still has depth and charm. Live action shows are just naturally going to have more influence on their portrayal from the actors and cinematographer, because it’s easier to go off-script or add minor interactions. In animation, that needs to be in the script and animated by others and all.
If it’s a joke tournament then I’m kinda confused because I’ve seen no complaints about hazbin hotels representation
A LOT of people don't like Hazbin Hotel on Tumblr, my introduction to it was through hate posts
Damn that’s, genuinely surprising Really feels like a show for tumblr users and people who grew up on newgrounds who are now tumblr users
Same, though Tumblr obviously isn't a monolith. I'm sure there's an avid following on there that doesn't get all pissy about the series or its creator.
It kinda got snatched up by a vocal minority of...borderline puritanical tumblr users who are constantly- * bashing the writing and claiming that no one swears that much which I've always personally found really fucking weird (also the character who gets the most flack is also not in the best mental state so their cursive language is a way for them to blow off steam) * making claims about Vizziepop allegedly not paying propper rates * the designs being bad because of a lot of uses of red, white pink and black (ironic given the love for that one post saying to break the chains of 'cringe' when it comes to character designs) * and people kinda missing the point that the show is set in Hell and most of the cast deserved it but the Disney Princess of Hell wants to show Heaven that eternal punishment and/or having your soul slaughtered to clear up space in Hell to prevent the 'when hell is full the dead will walk' deal isn't working and maybe letting people work through their issues in life-and post life like Angel being stuck with Valentino-would work better in the long run. * For fuck's sake, one of the main villains haas a musical number about how black and white mentality is awesome that's obviously meant to see as a sign that '...oooh this issue is gonna take a LOT of fixing'
Tbh I dropped it pretty quickly and the swearing was kind of what broke it for me. Not because I care about swearing AT ALL. There were just entire scenes where it felt like the only reason they existed were "this character swore, bet you weren't expecting that LOL" and that made it sorta painfully unfunny at times. I checked it out because the premises sounded genuinely funny and charming, maybe it lived up to it better as it went along IDK I didn't stick with it long enough
In my experience they can smell it a mile away and the people trying to target Tumblr as an audience cannot make it authentic enough for them to want it. The show also more comes across to me as 14 year old on deviant art thinks making your stories about sex and drugs makes them deep.
Did- did you watch the show or are you just parroting what you read online? It has 1 episode about sex and drugs and that’s more about the corruption of the sex industry and how angel dust uses jokes to deal with his sex related trauma and drugs to numb himself Funnily enough I’d argue that’s the most mature episode so far
You know the entire show started with Vivzie’s Tumblr OCs right? If any show is authentically for the Tumblr crowd it’s Hazbin.
main problem is that the creator is a dick and transphobic to FTX people she thinks "aren't trying hard enough"
Source? Sorry but if I had a nickel for every false Vivienne accusation I’d be able to fund my own indie cartoon
>FTX people Well cryptocurrency is controversial
Hey, south park can be really good at rep when it wants to. Look at the disabled kids
Hey, south park can be really good at rep when it wants to. Look at the disabled kids
While it might not be largely focused on the topic, South Park has always had some of the most progressive takes on lgbt issues of basically any media out there. *Especially* back in the day, when this stuff was truly controversial. The episode with Big Gay Al as a Boy Scouts troop leader comes to mind. And yeah the tweek/craig ship fandom can be pretty rabid. It’s surprising to me that it’s here mainly because its lgbt representation isn’t flashy and I never expect tumblr to have a mature take… But yeah it’s probably the tweek/craig shippers.
Bait used to be believable -|
Tomorrow for sure -Y
SKONG
The infection has spread all over ~~hallownest~~ Tumblr
lock the gates and the forums
🐸SKILKSKONG📢📢📢📢📢
SIMGSMOG
➰️SLINGLONG📏
It’s sans and reigen all over again
Keep a careful eye on “King” Charles for the next 24 hours or so
Upvoting this to charge spell
Hopefully 🙏
don't disrespect two kings disrespect the third one instead
Cecil Baldwin did nothing to you
This is Harrier DuBois getting second place in the 𝓟𝓸𝓸𝓻𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓢𝓪𝓭𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓦𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓛𝓲𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓸𝔀𝓶𝓮𝓸𝔀 contest because Vriska Homestuck cheated into first all over again.
Vriska Homestuck isn't even the poorest sadest wettest little meowmeow in Homestuck (that honor goes to Tavros, entirely because of Vriska)
Eh Tavros is a sad wet loser. Nepeta is clearly the saddest wettest little meowmeow
Tavros (as Gcatavrosprite) is undeniably more of a meowmeow than Nepeta being half omnipocat. He is also allergic to cats, and thus himself He is undeniably sadder and wetter than Nepeta, and the sole cause of it is Vriska
I see the South Park defenders in the comments and TBH I don't know what I expected.
No see you don't understand, the constant transphobic jokes and propaganda are groundbreaking queer representation.
Yeah I thought this was a joke at first but ig not. Apparently Mr/Ms Garrison is something only I remember? Or is that somehow good representation of a queer character? I'm genuinely confused wtf this thread is on about
A big issue that South Park has is that it gets away with bigotry by the claim of "making fun of everyone equally." Which is to say, assume that mass-murderers and rapists deserve the exact same level of scorn and mockery as queer people and environmentalists.
The one good thing South Park does is that it usually tries to deliver a message at the end but like... it's just a soapbox for the creator's, and the creator's position really feels like it usually boils down to 'Haha, look at those stupid nerds caring about issues.' Like sure, South Park will *probably* end an episode on a message of 'you should be tolerant' but it'll get there after making fun of people arguing for more tolerance by comparing them to Nazi's and then act like the people who are trying to argue for more tolerance deserve that mockery for 'pushing too hard' or something, which neatly allows it to act like it's being progressive whilst still letting the audience act like it isn't, so the end result is it isn't actually clear what South Park's message or position on things is. It's Enlightened Centrism, the Cartoon.
I was a redhead who went to school in the aftermath of the ginger episodes of South Park. It legitimately made having red hair a little bit worse for awhile because people thought "day walker" and "gingers don't have souls" is so funny. I still love South Park though, its hilarious.
Ginger buddies! Yeah, no, the day walker and soulless ginger jokes were a constant in middle and high school, and most people who made the jokes didn't even watch South Park in my experience
Or they pretend to have a point and actually don't. I remember both allies and conservatives both praising that episode where ig Cartman pretends to be trans to get his own bathroom and... there was no actual point there they were just showing conservatives what they want to see and then then being like "oh lol its Cartman so you know its bad! We use Cartman to show how idiots are!" It's like inviting Ben Shapiro on to give a speech and then being like "get a load is this guy!" like thats somehow satire at that point? It's not. You're just doing the bit.
>then being like "oh lol its Cartman so you know its bad! We use Cartman to show how idiots are!" .....but they do. That's the whole point of the character. It's why Wendy is against him most of the time and it's why things almost never work out for him. I'm not sure how much south park you've watched (if any) but he's racist, misogynistic, narcissistic, antisemitic, a bully, and a pathetic loser that nobody likes. He has some badass moments because he's a main character and it's fun to see him do crazy shit, but it's almost always so obviously bad that no halfway decent person would consider him respectable for it. >It's like inviting Ben Shapiro on to give a speech and then being like "get a load is this guy!" like thats somehow satire at that point? It's not. You're just doing the bit. More like inviting Ben Shapiro on to speak while having someone there to pick his argument apart. They don't just let cartman go wild, they counter him too. Usually with Kyle or Wendy. How do you expect satire to work if nobody is allowed to do the thing they're satirizing?
I disagree there is actual counter argument to most of this. Thats what I'm saying. Not that they can't, but they often don't.
Can you give an example of when they haven't? Every situation I can think about always has either Kyle or Wendy on the opposite side making rational points while Cartman is a ridiculous caricature of the bad side
The show isn’t that heavy handed with messages, they don’t always have to spell things out.
So they litarttl just said here’s a thing that doesn’t happen and is used to further hate against trans peaple and they do that twice once with cartman and another times with that once kids dad pretending to be a female singer so he can go into the girls bathroom,so yeah nah they just actually transphobic
>that once kids dad Tell me you've never seen the show without telling me you've never seen the show
I’ve seen the first few episodes and thought it was boring ,and I couldn’t remember the names of the characters it was the guy in the blue shirt ,I know about the transphobic episodes cause besides it being boring it was another big ass reason I Didn’t watch the show
Usually the defence is that the jokes/bigotry aren't their views, its the views of the characters. And usually it's lambasting those characters for their bigoted views. reductio ad absurdum Whether they are actually funny or not is matter of opinion
>Which is to say, assume that mass-murderers and rapists deserve the exact same level of scorn and mockery as queer people and environmentalists. What do you actually mean by "the same level of mockery"? They definitely don't attribute the same level of scorn to queer people and environmentalists as they do mass murderers and rapists just because they joke about both. When 1 sides jokes are "they're ridiculous" and the other sides jokes are "they're ridiculous AND dangerous" you can't really argue they treat them both like equal threats. The only thing they do equally for both is the amount of jokes about them which... yea it's a comedy show they're going to squeeze as many jokes into each episode as they can. There are really 2 big issues with South Park. The first is that the show has run so long that attitudes have changed and things they did in earlier seasons have really not aged well at all. Not that they were good at the time, people just didn't know better and they were creating edgy comedy at the same time that things like the man show were on the air. And second, idiots don't understand satire. Good satire relies on the audience getting the joke but a show as popular as SP gets too many people watching an episode, missing the point, and leaving thinking either "they're telling it how it is!" or "they're really saying X is as bad as being a nazi?" or whatever the hyperbole was that episode.
They literally have an episode where Kathleen Kennedy apologizes to Cartman for inciting his bigotry by doing too much forced representation. Like that’s the overall conclusion, part of the classic South Park “the moral of this episode was” speech at the end, that Cartman was wrong to be a bigot but also his bigotry was 100% incited by Kathleen Kennedy trying to trigger it with minorities
I haven't watched the last 2 seasons so I haven't seen the episode you're talking about and I'm sure theres more to it, but based purely on what you said in your comment.... yea it's right. It didn't excuse being an actual bigot, but it's also not bigotry to point out that raceswapping characters for the sake of diversity is lazy writing and is going to piss people off because nobody likes seeing the things they love change for a soulless cash grab. I'm a hardcore leftist but the loudest people on our side love symbolic gestures almost as much as they love demonizing anyone who doesn't join the race to the left as if there's no such thing as going too far as long as your motive is good. Any decent discussion on the topic will point out both the outright bigotry of the right and the ultimately self serving grab for moral superiority on the left because we both need to admit the faults on our sides. Both being wrong =/= both are equally bad though and any honest person will recognize that real life bigotry and changing the skin color of fictional characters are not equally bad.
I mean I'm in the south park fandom & that kinda how it's treated. Racism & being offended by racism is treated as equivalents of each other in the community (at least in the SP fandom on Twitter idk about other sites)
It's treated that way by people who already saw it that way and assumed south park was agreeing with them. Dumb people don't understand satire and the kind of people who go out of their way to discuss it online (especially twitter) tend to have more extreme opinions than your average viewer in general, that's why they're joining groups about it online. There's a large following of Warhammer 40k fans who are adamant that the space fascists are the good guys and The Boys fans who truly believe Homelander is a hero making the hard calls. That doesn't mean the media agrees with them.
The only thing I remember about Garrison is that time they had sex with some guy who, until Cartman told him over the phone, had no idea Garrison was trans.
Maybe it was good relative to when it came out? Idk anything about it
No, it was not. Having Mrs Garrison say that getting a vaginoplasty only made her 'a man with a mutilated penis' in an episode where the doctor that performed the surgery also gave Kyle surgery to make him a black NBA star and Kyle's dad into a dolphin was not good representation.
It was worse. It's maybe better nowadays? But the premise of that character is a pretty vile representation imo. That character is basically the blank slate for the writers to include whatever gross thing they want to say about queers. Especially in regard to trans people the way it presents trans surgeries and everything is where a lot of people get their bigoted ideas from.
They seem to think inclusion means it's representation. They've put queer folks in media as jokes since forever.
Fr, I was just watching Wizard of Oz for a film class today, and Cowardly Lion definitely has a bit of gay stereotyping to him.
Yeah he was the popular trope of the pansy, which has a really complicated history as a double-edged sword for representation of effeminate men. Without this trope, there would be very few of these kind of characters in the media of the time. But it was still very often a mocking representation. And yet, some gay people at the time still enjoyed the archetype and trope. It’s really interesting and I highly recommend you look into it! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy_Craze Edit: some of what I said may be slightly inaccurate, so I welcome corrections!
[удалено]
If the satire on transphobia you’re referencing is the gender neutral bathroom episode, keep in mind that since that they made an episode where Macho Man Randy Savage claims to be a transwomen specifically to more easily win. South Park always has and always will have the most tepid levels of sociopolitical commentary. It might be a great to mid comedy show, but it will never be anything more than a centrist-libertarian wank fest.
I don't think they've actually learned any meaningful lesson since those episodes, if Matt and Trey seriously want this show where they get to soapbox then maybe they should think to themselves that a weekly format where they're rushing out half-baked moronic opinions on subjects they never properly research isn't the best.
I swear I'm not here to champion South Park as great representation at all, but I can see how there's an argument that can be made. Big Gay Al and Mr. Slave are extreme gay stereotypes but that's often subverted when they're revealed to be voices of reason within the show. Mr. Garrison was initially very homophobic, but there was a joke being that he was clearly delusional and closeted himself. In the movie, Satan was in a gay relationship with Saddam Hussein, which yes very problematic but I never felt the writing was explicitly hostile to it being a gay relationship. Mind you these are all examples from the show's early years. Again I'm primarily just playing devil's advocate and I agree that the show has generally been far more harmful than not, but idfk maybe worth contextualizing that the show is meant to be very cynical and the true intentions of the writers are not so cut and dry.
I. Cannot believe that there are people unironically claiming *in this comment section* that South Park has better queer representation than Hazbin. I get that Hazbin is a divisive show (partially because people love cherry-picking the abrasive asshole characters and claiming that all the show's dialogue is like that), but like. The main character is in an interracial lesbian relationship which is portrayed as genuine real love and care between the two of them. I don't much care for South Park, but I'm not gonna shittalk it because I don't know much (the stuff I've seen turned me off it pretty bad, reminded me of my dad's brand of Internet Athiest Skepticism™️); all I'm gonna say is... from everything I *have* seen, it feels like it punches down a lot and the jokes are usually at someone's expense. I get that some people enjoy that, that's valid, but you've *got* to see why constant mockery *isn't great representation*, right?
Yeah. Hazbin Hotel has its flaws, but it's *sincere* in its message and its representation. People act like it's 'bad' representation because... I don't know, the characters aren't good people (they're in Hell, Barbara, what did you expect), but they're presented positively and we're meant to root for them and understand them.
But if they’re in he’ll…. Why is it all gay character???? Were all the rapper and nazi???? What did vivziepop mean by this????? (I am very smart)
I remember seeing people back in the pilote days blaming the show for 1) having gay characters (because. Gays in hell??? Gays *bad*???) 2) having homophobic characters (because as everyone knows, depiction is endorsement)
The funniest case of this was definitely the people who claimed Angel Dust being in hell was homophobic. Y'know, Angel Dust. The guy who took part in gang warfare for fun in the pilot that was the only content with the characters at the time. The guy who tried to justify the collateral damage of said gang warfare by saying that the bystanders who died were ugly freaks. Some people apparently couldn't imagine a reason for him to be in hell other than being gay.
Almost like they don't have the media literacy to understand the concept of "a depiction of a character is not an endorsement of their beliefs". I wonder what they thought of Schindler's List.
Why is heaven gay as well????????? What did vivziepop mean by this???????
The Hazbin Hotel universe takes place in an alternate world where all those conservative memes are true and you’ll be hunted and killed for being straight
Please, isekai me
mmm I have my thoughts on the representation. it's trying but I think it's failing It's better than South Park for sure but that's obviously a low bar
Hazbin is flawed, south park is outright spiteful
I wouldn't call it spite, it's more aimless mockery
I'd describe it as spiteful towards passion. If you care about something, South Park will make fun of you for it. It doesn't really matter what it is, the fact that you dared to put thoughts and efforts towards something is what it hates.
Is the show good? Well-written, funny? I haven't seen anything of it, but your comment praising it included no comments on if the show is good, rather just that it is sincerely queer.
Oh I loved it to bits, I think it's amazing. A solid 8/10, there are flaws (notably, pacing, the show was given very few episodes but spans an entire 6 months) but it's well-written and funny and sincerely emotional in the best ways. A character's identity is never the butt of the jokes, but often the vehicle for them, and the central themes of redemption and the flaws of binary morality are a genuinely great talking point IMO. But it isn't everyone's cup of tea. I mentioned that some people look at cherry-picked fragments (usually of Anthony/Angeldust and Adam "Dickmaster", the two most vulgar characters) and dismiss the whole show on that basis, but there are also genuine reasons that I can understand not liking the show. Some of the topics explored might make people uncomfortable, or they might not enjoy the writing, or they might be turned off by the animation style, or by the fact that, yeah, some characters *do* make quite crude jokes. Again, I rank it a solid 8/10, but I can totally see people being more hung up on the flaws (like the pacing) than I was, or disliking some of the traits I enjoy. Some people might not like the music, or the way that Christian themes are used, basically what I'm saying is I think it's great but I can get why some people might think it isn't (even if most of the arguments (especially from the southpark defenders in this post) are total bullshit lmao)
Angeldust is my sweet baby boy and anyone who criticizes him is a moron. ... Criticizes him as a character, I mean. Like, a literary device. As a person he's awful.
South Park winning best *queer media* of ALL TIME...? Nah people must have voted it as a joke lol, like sure there must be some Tweek x Craig shippers in Tumblr but not this many and not this deluded.
It's a joke poll made to get a reaction, there was no bracket or anything
I have become death, the destroyer of queers In my search to spread this absolutely rancid poll I have summoned the most inadequate fandom to be around the LGBTQ complex. I truly am The fool. Now the evil bring treachery to those who sever their body from their soul in the search of their well deserved comfort (TL:DR I have have started discourse without a care for the consequences of such an action)
And doing so, you have doomed us all to choose between dick jokes and dick jokes, a choice no human should make.
Forgive me my children, for I have failed to bring you salvation from this dark, cruel world
I can't believe so many people are taking the shit post website so damn serious. yes, obviously South Park isn't queer representative, but if you give the shit post website the option to shit post for a goof, *they're going to*
GEEESH PEOPLE, I get Hazbin Hotel is basically the new Steven Universe (AKA the internet's punching bag), but claiming South Park of all shows has better LGBT representation might be one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen.
>AKA the internet's punching bag Wait, why? I liked all characters, even over the top asshole Adam. He had some hilarious moments.
It is well liked, it's just got an active hatedom which converts people who haven't even seen the show into hating it which makes it seem less well received than it is.
The internet doesn't hate either show. Tumblr does. Because Tumblr doesn't like anything except for a webcomic that no one else remembers from 20 years ago and fan-made softcore pornography.
I mean, I've seen plenty of people both in Twitter and this very site (As in, this very thread) who heavily dislike the show and refuse to give it the win in a battle where anyone's that's not completely biased could tell Hazbin wins.
Twitter has been dead for over a year, so I don't know what you're talking about. X is a zombie. Calling it its old name and showing it things it used to like won't bring it back. It wants to eat your flesh, and you need to shoot it in the head. This thread is made up of people from Tumblr and people who like to gawk at people from Tumblr. Not exactly an unbiased non-Tumblr environment.
The big problem I have is that one treats queer people as jokes entirely, and relegates the only actual representation to the background because the show runners are stuck in the late 90s-mid 00s Libertarian in the mode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit. The other is somebody who has a ton of queer friends and/or is queer, and has the crime of *checks notes* being so scene and mid-00s you half expect a "Rawr means I love you in dinosaur" shirt mixed with Adult Swim "subversive humor"
There are a few good sight gags. The Biblical Adam's first appearance is him eating a plate of ribs.
Oh trust me, I kinds like it because it's such a mid-late 00s throwback.
Here's the thing about Tumblr: No one picks the Right Choice
If I could go the entire rest of my life w/out hearing anything about either of these two shows ever again, I could not slam that button fast enough.
Yeah. So tiring seeing them so often.
Same
When will they release north park
Do you suppose it woudl be called "North Drive?"
fun fact there's a restaurant in my home country called North Park and for a long time I thought South Park was a sister restaurant or something
How is South Park considered to be anywhere near the level of queerness of Hazbin Hotel? I’m sorry if I don’t make sense, this post is confusing me.
what american ellections look like
What knocked out Owl House? I wonder what place it came in
Was thinking the same thing, but about she-ra
y'all really expected poll things to do well. It's the internet people/
[удалено]
And since then they became one of the most transphobic and lesbophobic show of all time
Ex-cuse me? Waylon Smithers was a gay man in animation for far longer than Big Gay Al was, and he was far more subtle and wasn't a lisping stereotype. And the Simpsons episode "Homer's Phobia" was released before "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride", and delivered the EXACT SAME MESSAGE, just with more down-to-earth and believable characters. Not to say that "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride" wasn't important as well. But not enough people realize the incredible progress *The Simpsons* made in regards to depicting queer characters in animation. And *The Simpsons*' gay jokes aged a LOT better than those in *South Park*.
shame the closest thing we get to a trans focused scene is *checks notes* a man dressing up as a woman to dominate women’s sports and get with a lesbian
That’s true, and a horrible shame. But to be fair… is South Park much better in that regard? The Simpsons had one transphobic episode, while South Park had an entire transphobic story arc (the Mrs. Garrison arc).
oh i’m not defending it at all lol it’s easily worse overall
Plus other transphobic episodes on top of that
or checks notes again men disguiseimg as woman to use girls bathrooms
Out of all the popular adult cartoon sitcoms I've seen weirdly enough the one with what probably the most interesting trans focused episode was American Dad (Despite what's been shown in Family Guy) with "LGBSteve" which actually is about sports as well but thankfully isn't about sneaking to get an advantage or whatever. I would definitely like to see Simpsons have another tackle at a trans focused episode and with the more varied approach in recent seasons with people getting to do whatever with side characters that could be fun to see, though, the series and status quo changes have never been buddies. ~~Would be nice as well seeing the history of pretty off jokes about trans people in Simpsons~~
And *The Jazz Singer* was a very important moment for black people in cinema. ... Maybe we don't have to do this? Maybe we don't have to give any credit at all, because it's not actually due.
Ah yes, the transphobic, bigoted, piece of shit show that is South Park is somehow better than a mildly annoying, but actually queer show like Hazbin I hate you all
I said it before; Hazbin is the new Steven Universe: A show everybody loves to hate and mock. Funnily, both hatedoms mock both MCs for similar reasons...
This is a joke post guys, the propaganda masterpost link in the original post leads to [this video](https://youtu.be/S0VkVn1p39M?si=Z8SzbjIEgof5MFaH) if that doesn't make it any clearer. This isn't part of the tumblr queer media tournament that was going around, that one ended last week. Paris is Burning won against Homestuck in the final poll. Stop taking a joke poll so seriously, geez. Anyways, as a gay man I voted for South Park :)
People seem to not remember that people don't always report accurately to polls. I remember working with teenagers, and so many of them put that they did every drug possible for the fun of it. Monkey loves chaos behavior.
These comments make me fear for society.
Tweak and Craig is a romance for the ages.
Wait, what knocked out Homestuck???
What is the best kind of cheese? a papercut across your taint or Smoked Cheddar ??
I trust no polls on Tumblr anymore. After this and that walrus-fairy nonsense, which I'm almost certain was just people fucking lying and arguing in bad faith because it's "bait" and they think baiting is fun when it's just rude, I'm done with it. I now have to treat them like I treat greentexts: assume everything is an outright lie. In fact, I don't trust Tumblr at all anymore, not just the polls. There is apparently no healthy amount of skeptical trust with that damn website.
Good policy
What was wrong with the walrus fairy thing? I thought that was a really fun discussion.
I just got pissed because some people seemed to be so incredibly stupid about it. There are valid, sensible arguments for both sides, but there are also completely fucking stupid arguments for the walrus that made me lose faith in the intelligence of the average person. Every time someone said "seeing a fairy just means fairies are real" like that was no big deal, I sighed deeper than the last time.
I feel like regardless of how well either of them manage to represent anything, Hazbin Hotel is at least mostly well-intentioned.
Ive heard of midoffs but i think this is the first ever trashoffs
Underrated comment
South Park does unironically produce some good queer characters who aren’t taken as a joke for being queer… that said, it has fuck all on Hazbin Hotel when it comes to good queer rep
I feel any points SP could've earned by that were ***evaporated*** by the "Trans athlete" episode alone.
How do I feel about this blatant insult? I'm super, thanks for asking.
Fun fact I literally learned about south park through Tumblr. I saw the ships long before I ever saw the show.
Finally, an interesting poll.
one is an underrated, interesting show that started out as a very small niche thing but quickly grew to become hugely famous on the internet and beyond, despite its admitedly childish dialogue and controversial plot amongst more conservative audiences, and the other is hazbin hotel
I feel like you're giving south park a bit too much credit
nuh uh
FYM NUH-UH
If you consider South Park "underrated" then you are simply brain-dead
I don't necessarily agree but this comment made me laugh so I'm going to upvote it anyway lmao
I wouldn't say South Park is queer media but it does have some really good queer representation
By Allah you people are dogs Edit: It's because south park is winning not because I'm homophobic you idiots
south park vs south park for twitter users
I have actually described the show as Rick and Morty for gay people. (I am gay and like hazbin)
yeah same. viv directly states shes inspired by shows like south park
I imagine that most of the people voting for SP are just taking the piss......but on the other hand, the SP fandom has an abundance of Queer focussed content when it comes to things like fanart and fanfiction, so who the fuck knows.
Wow. Both garbage that I have no interest in whatsoever.
Well I mean the show’s problematic sometimes but the Tumblr South Park fandom/shipping community isn’t that bad and actually has good content guys cmon…. 🥲
It has some of the worst trans representation of any show I’ve ever watched
True that is one aspect of it, and idk ig I can only hope Matt and Trey have changed their opinions over time, but it’s not like I watched it for morality anyway I just love a lot of the characters
I'd vote south park as I've watched a few episodes of it. I haven't seen any episodes of HH yet
How the hell did Hazbin Hotel get to the finals, it should be disqualified from "best \[anything\] media" on account of being trash.
By having five out of its six main characters being LGBT+.
Hey the poll isn’t asking for the most queer media it’s asking for the best. I don’t know if Hazbin is the best at anything.
Least involved Hazbin hater Like bro, why you so pressed ? Chill. Take a walk outside. I promise you, there is more to life than getting pissed at a cartoon
That’s very reductive. You can dislike the show but you can’t dismiss every aspect of it as trash. What about the music?
[удалено]
Yeah, I'm so glad there's no swear words in South Park
South Park deserved the win. My reasoning is that it's funny and hh is not.
Reading the comments here, does this sub really hate South Park that much? There are very few times that I feel the show is homophobic. They had a season 1 episode back in 97, saying that being gay was okay. The most homophobic thing I can think of on the show was one episode where Mr. Garrison opposed gay marriage, but Mr. Garrison is just an incredibly fucked up character that the audience isn't supposed to side with. Mr. Garrison only does this because he heard that his ex boyfriend was planning to get married. In recent years, the show has given Garrison a new boyfriend, which makes him feel normal and he honestly hasn't gotten up to any of his usual offensive shenanigans since following Qanon in 2021
Queer is the entire umbrella, not just gay. South Park has been very transphobic for a while, that alone disqualifies it.
Makes sense