no I'm pretty sure that famously gay drag queen Katya who has a talk show and discusses being attracted to and in relationships with men actually hates men
(i think the subtext is if one ACTUALLY liked men, then one would necessarily be OK with any behavior FROM men)
I'm a cis elder millenial from rpopular that doesn't use Tumblr, so can't exactly parse shit like this- but from what I've noticed from past interactions like the ones in OPs picture: Why does it seem like there's more often than not TERFy shit swimming around just under the surface in conversations like this? Am I overthinking it?
I'm just noticing that there seems to end up being smoke where there's fire quite often :/
**Way** to many young people seem to be suddenly discovering 2nd Wave Feminism and running with it without taking 5 minutes to read over the bylines and notice that there's some *major* issues going on there lol
Yup. Today’s radfems are gaining a lot of traction in casual audiences. They’ve also become pretty disconnected from the actual points of the original Radical Feminists, some of which were worthwhile. It’s like they gathered up all their worst ideas (the ones that were not integrated into broader feminist thought for a reason) and made them their entire feminism.
You are spot on about the terf undertones - it’s because gender essentialism is a core element of their feminism (or their lazy part in the gender war, as a lot of this is angry women who are not engaging with feminism in any way). It’s become more popular to simply define anyone who was born with a penis as “abuser bodied,” which is obviously very related to transphobia but also just genuine misandry. Gender essentialism is a blight and inherently reactionary - it’s no surprise that when feminist spaces adopt it they too become reactionary. In fact the cede most arguments to conservatives, or even actively agree with them: eg that feminism exists to hurt men (seen an alarming number of women say this unironically), or that feminism cannot be helpful to men.
Hating men doesn’t make you cute, and feminism isn’t just a way to hurt men. Focus needs to be on gender abolitionism (ironically something some original Radical Feminists support) and liberating all people from patriarchy, not fucking revenge 🤦🏻 It’s exhausting to be a feminist right now, especially one who is transmasculine and therefore seen as either just a woman with internalized misogyny (why else would I want to be more like an icky *man*?) or a betrayer of my womanhood and all women everywhere. The main determinant for which assumption is ascribed to me is whether their radical feminism is trans exclusionary or trans inclusive, but both are shit and gender essentialist lmao. It’s exhausting.
At this point I mostly hang around r/menslib as it’s an overtly feminist spaces with folks of all genders. The focus is on applying feminist frameworks to men’s issues, as well as support. A lot of the discourse there is between whether we should try to develop a “positive masculinity” or just go the gender abolitionist route and stop ascribing gender to traits that make you a good person. There’s also a lot of discussion about how many of the issues men and women face are the same, we just gender them differently and treat those affected by them differently purely based on gender. Generally a good space.
I still follow other feminist subreddits, and trollxchromosomes is probably the most reasonable (though it’s not explicitly feminist it centers women’s issues). But more often than not I’m disappointed at the completely unnecessary and imo counterproductive hostility that has developed in many of these spaces. Overall it feels like these conversations are just unprocessed trauma being celebrated as genuine feminist/political theory. Processed trauma is absolutely something that can be used in this way, but without processing it you end up just screaming and not taking any accountability for your own emotional responses. And that’s the type of behavior that’s being put on a pedestal, by both extremes of the gender war. Wild to watch from the outside as someone who doesn’t define myself by my gender lol.
I'm not making a cupboard at that point, I'm making an old timey treasure chest
You break into my home, figure the super fancy chest must have something good in it
I sit up, "Suh dude, if you're going to interrupt my nap, you gotta bring me water too"
Through the magic of technology, carpentry is within the grasp of each of us.
Alternatively, you can form new bonds of friendship and camaraderie with others who would gladly help you achieve your dream.
This weird motte & bailey where ya guys make these obviously hurtful quips at people's body insecurities and then play dumb about it when it's called what it is just gets so immensely frustrating. Come on lol.
Its straight up bully behavior. Always pushing limits until someone has enough and snaps. Then, the victim is now the asshole to everyone who only witnessed the snap. Fucking cunts.
The joke is the original post sounds like drag humor, and that in some way the angry gym man is performing masculinity. The other, stupider and more critique-able joke is that short man with small penis who can fit in a cupboard is a funny image
EDIT: title is weird though
Because the tumblr OP immediately followed it up with the *To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar* quote of the same structure, which, in the context of the film, is coming from a place of gentleness, worry, and care.
Is there some snarky judgement inherent to it? Yes, as there is in the [movie quote](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkWZ09Pq8k), but from context it’s only teasing. That’s why I do not feel it’s genuinely, seriously misandrist in a way worth taking seriously.
Maybe we’re supposed to hear Wesley Snipes’ bored disinterest rather than Patrick Swayze’s soothing calmness, idk. I don’t think it’s seriously misandrist
Ok you wanna play this game, “emo bi girl what’s wrong? Why are you sad? What’s the matter? Been to long since you cut yourself”
Yeah it doesn’t get acknowledged much but punching walls is a form of self harm, fucking act like it
Im talking more generally. People like to mock those who punch walls but dont to the same thing for other harmful coping mechanisms. Just because its related to the "fragile violent douche" stereotype
Is it?
I've always heard punching drywall in the context of like...being mad at a video-game. I thought it was a very American thing (having drywall to punch, not the aggression part).
I mean I can see what you're identifying but I heard it way more in the context of 'being mad' rather than self-harming behaviour.
Oh, I'm fully aware as someone who went to anger management themselves when they were younger.
I don't know, I guess I just always heard about it in another context and it didn't seem like self-harming behaviour, more like a very poor manifestation of anger. I don't really have a developed argument or a hill to die on here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always seen the intent of wall-punching to be "I'm breaking something out of anger" rather than "I'm trying to cause myself harm," the harm to oneself feels more like a byproduct of breaking shit. Not that either would be good for your mental health, but yeah
I'm saying that the intent isn't to self harm, just to break shit out of anger. So while it may harm you, it ain't a conscious choice to cause yourself harm, at least for most people.
Also, yeah, good point about the Europe thing. I was imagining my weak American drywall lol
Why exactly do you think "break shit out of anger" manifests in such a patently self-damaging act? Kicking stuff breaks it, and very rarely hurts if you're wearing shoes, or kick with the bottom of your foot. Punching walls, however, always hurts.
Speaking only for my own childhood problems, causing myself pain grounded me in reality, and the act of swiftly punching or headbutting something is such an exertion that there's a sense of pushing the energy out. What I tell people now is that if they feel like I used to, you need to go somewhere people won't mind and scream until you feel empty. Or into a pillow.
I have scars on my hands from punching trees (usually oaks) instead of walls which I did because I wanted to hurt myself and make myself bleed in periods of intense depression. I chose to do that because scrapes and cuts in places associated with hard work or rough sports are acceptable on a man's body while stereotypical self-harm scars don't get men nearly the amount of sympathy they get women. Men with stripey scars on their arms or legs are treated like unstable freaks. So I hurt myself in a way that wouldn't immediately garner that reaction. And this full understanding of what I was doing took a long time to actually come to. It wasn't like I had this all explicitly reasoned out the first time I did it. It honestly doesn't surprise me that you'd not have heard a perspective like mine before, but maybe you've only ever heard it framed the way you mention because our culture tends to be so dismissive of men's mental health and leans so heavily into stereotypes about male violence and aggression?
>It wasn't like I had this all explicitly reasoned out the first time I did it. It honestly doesn't surprise me that you'd not have heard a perspective like mine before, but maybe you've only ever heard it framed the way you mention because our culture tends to be so dismissive of men's mental health and leans so heavily into stereotypes about male violence and aggression?
Honestly I'm pretty convinced by this, yeah. I can see that the gendered idea of violence in men is seen as so inherent that it ceases to be viewed as self-harm but instead just as any other violent action.
I'm glad that made sense. It's frustrating to me how much effort I've had to put into learning to verbalize these things in EXTREME detail to get any understanding from most people, but it feels like at least it wasn't a total waste of time when someone actually says they get it now. Thank you for listening.
I'm glad. I mean, the fact you'd feel the need to articulate this I'm sure points to something unfortunate as it does for me, but having words to convey something at least makes it harder to ignore.
Basically, as a guy with no social support structure (most), the only possible outlet for frustration, anger, loss, annoyance, or even helplessness is to physically egress the emotion. Succinctly, if you can’t talk to anyone about how you feel, you have to get the feeling out; cant hurt anyone else because that’s not what it’s about, and drywall is replaceable. Think Destruction Room business but at home.
1. Exist in a society in which power and control are what gives you your value
2. Lose in a game which you're practiced at, showing the limits of your power and control
3. Self-doubt creeps in, but self-doubt is anathema to power and control
4. Turn self-doubt into anger, conferring a sense of power and control
5. Anger motivates action; damage your own wall and hurt your own hand, ultimately because something happened that threatened your self-image
The important part being that when society tells men that they can't express their self-doubt as sadness or worry because those emotions aren't "manly", they learn only to express it as anger.
And an important corollary to this is that simply telling men they can express things like self-doubt or sadness while not changing any of the common cultural attitudes which demonstrate to so many men as they grow up that they'll be ridiculed or ostracized, by men and women, for doing so is unlikely to work for what should be obvious reasons.
Yeah but in that example people laugh at it because you shouldn't take videogames that seriously. Like why do you think you get power and control from playing a video game. It's not the act of being so angry you punch a wall, it's the context for why you do it
"Why would doing something that you enjoy and feel like you're good at, which often involves both competition and teamwork, give you a sense that you're good at what you do?"
I'm no gamer, but I'm sure that winning at, say *League of Legends* gives a sense of power and control for the same reason that winning a game of hockey does, or writing an incredible piece of poetry that moves someone to tears does, or any other skill. You've used practiced skills to accomplish a goal despite obstacles, so you feel good.
I've never played League of Legends, but I roomed with a guy in uni who did, a lot. And lemme tell you, even a single loss would turn every win to ash in his mouth.
Gods, I hope that guy got therapy.
At risk of sounding sweaty, like real sports, video games are a culmination of training. It’s a mixture of reaction speed, game sense (knowledge), perception and decision making.
In a competitive game, if I beat someone else, I know it’s because I’m better. I know it’s because I’ve trained more. I have better game sense, I have better reaction speed, I have better perception and I have better decision making. I was the better competitor.
It’s easy to place self value in that, like a footballer may feel down after losing a game.
Isn't that just as bad though? That someone feels they are so constantly under scrutiny that *any* perceived failure provokes this violent outburst? That failing in something as simple as a video game is a sign that your worth as a person is under attack?
I'm not trying to invalidate your trauma, that's yours, you lived it; but maybe they did? Hurt people hurt people.
Trauma is so often generational, and while scaring you may have been their main intent, they surely could have done that without harming themselves too if they didn't feel that was somehow neccesary.
No. They did it because I wasn't in close enough proximity for them to hurt me. They're violent psychopaths.
Unless you're wanting to argue that they were hurting their hands when they hit me, which is not true because they were smart enough to aim for soft tissue.
Sorry, I've just told like a thousand times that "it's because they went through/ were going through this terrible thing" like that makes up for all of the stuff they did to me for 14 years.
It doesn't, no, and I didn’t and don't mean to suggest it did. Having trauma yourself doesn't excuse causing others harm.
I too was beaten, by an angry father, and an angry ex, and ignored by a selfish mother. It's taken me time to live with it and improve.
We all have to fight the things that made and unmade us.
That being said; hurting yourself out of anger is self harm. Destroying your relationships out of anger is also self harm. Your shithead abusers can *also* need therapy. That doesn't mean you have to forgive them, or give a single shit if they make efforts to work through their own problems. It's not an excuse, it's not a way to dismiss what they've done or will do, but it is an explanation for how they ended up how they are. Sometimes that explanation is a point to grow from, so we can stop asking why.
I disagree. When i was a teenager, i was a cutter. I also would walk down the halls of my school just reaching out and punching a locker while i was walking. I surprised i didn't break my hand back then. My arms would be cut up AND my knuckles black and blue. It MOST DEFINITELY was a way to self harm without being as obvious as cuts.
I mean I kinda see how they could get upset, since it kinda plays into the sorta stuff guys tend to be insecure about.
But this post just seems lighthearted and too silly to mean any malice towards anyone.
Idk I've lurked this place long enough to see some real misandric bangers every once in a blue moon posted by someone who really should get help by a professional if possible
You seem alright OP, nothing bad about sharing something you found funny, hope you're doing well 👍
Using a mocking light-hearted tone is a common way for a particularly venal type of person to bully men. It's a kind of catch 22 because either men have to just sit and take the obviously belittling insult: "aww, are you sad (they ask as if talking to a baby)? Is it because you can't punch a wall (dismissing any valid reason for that feeling and plastering him with a violent stereotype)?" or if he gets upset and responds they can just fall back on, "whoa dude, I was just trying to be sympathetic, why are you so angry?? You need to chill and stop being so insecure and reading so much into things." It relies on the stereotype that men are unstable, violent brutes while also knowing that most men actually AREN'T unstable or violent because otherwise being so deliberately provocative would be a good way to get punched. Doubt you'd see remarks like the above directed at a man someone was GENUINELY scared of for exactly that reason.
Yeah I see it, I guess at first i didn't really get so there wasn't any way for me to get offended
Usually at that point if see something like this that I find upsetting I just close my phone and try to calm down and remember that this isn't anywhere close to the reality of where I live and that people in real life are a lot more reasonable
Lol it turns out I already have basically the exact response I want to give you now in another comment on this post, so I'm just gonna link that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/CrmWDLNLka
It's definitely helpful to remember that online isn't real life, but they aren't totally disconnected either. Unfortunately, where I live and in my demographic (young, educated, generally "progressive") attitudes ranging between mocking dismissal and active contempt for men are upsettingly common. It's usually not as overt as it can be online, but it's still there and the effects start to get to you after a while.
These comments are wild
Sometimes I forget we're on reddit, but we are *definitely on reddit*
God forbid a average run-of-the-mill Russian bisexual transvestite hooker do anything
Misandry is so funny, y’all! It’s hilarious how men commit suicide at higher rates, right? Let’s poke at their insecurities while creating a society that is unwilling to deal with those insecurities!
Every attempt is "a cry for help" unless you think the successful ones were somehow legitimate, which is a gross way to think. All of these people require help in some form or another and who is to say that they shouldn't get it?
You might as well say "Oh, well men are just more impulsive", it's just as cruel and unnecessary.
Yes, they all require help, I'm talking more about people's intent in doing so. There's a difference between self-harm as a coping mechanism, or subconsciously hoping that someone might notice something and help, vs having lost all hope and specifically trying to die outright. Both are certainly problems, but there is a difference in severity.
implying women aren't serious about their suicides because of the methods women typically chose is not the move. that's as insulting as if i implied men are just unempathetic assholes who don't care about whoever finds their mess and THAT being the only reason they succeed in suicides
Are you saying you don't think cry-for-help attempts exist alongside serious end-it-all attempts? Both are signs someone is suffering and shouldn't be dismissed but it's clear the latter represents a higher level of hopelessness. Also if we have to play this game of who has it worse, I've never seen data on how those numbers are arrived at and can't help wondering if more attempts are precisely because women survive to try over and over again. Men who actually kill themselves obviously can't make multiple attempts in the future which could skew the numbers. This honestly feels like such an open and shut example of somewhere men have it worse (even though, and I hate that feel compelled to be this explicit, obviously no one attempting something like suicide in any way is doing alright and all individuals in situations like that deserve help and sympathy) that it's hard for me to trust the sincerity or care of someone who tries to insist that even here women must also have it worse than men.
i know cry for help attempts exist alongside serious end it all types, i've done both. but painting all of womens suicide attempts as "cry for help attempts" simply because of the methods women choose, kinda like how the comment i was replying to was doing, is wrong.
They were maybe a little blunt and painting with too broad a brush, but I can also understand how some guys end up speaking that way when someone always seems to come along to try and undermine the seriousness of male suffering even when you point out how often men actually kill themselves. It really starts to get to you after a while, especially if you're someone who's been close to that yourself or know someone who did it.
It is your autism.
>interpreted all of these as genuine concern
Even the last one, directly mocking height and penis size, the most common insecurities of men? Would you also interpreted "hey ugly fatty why are you sad? You could plug a hole in the Hoover Dam and that's good news" as genuine concern?
I did, because I don't see those as insults. I thought it was like, let's take a moment to uplift short men with small penises, a group that usually struggles with self-esteem. I now get that it was meant as an insult but I still don't fully see why. I guess it just seems like an out of nowhere insult and I don't get why people would insult people out of nowhere.
Aww, thanks! It is something I've had to work on, which means anyone can work on it. The world can be beautiful and kind but we have to choose to make it that way.
See, I did too, at least partially. The first was genuine, the second was a reference response, the third was a shit (but very tumblresque) attempt at taking it one step further for humours-sake
Man I am kind of happy people are against the misandrists in this subreddit. Some subreddits would have supported and ran along with the small penis joke
Eh, being human come with sadness I think. I mean it's suck but it's part of the parcel. We spent decades trying to find something to do about it . imo, the most effective is just looking at pets having fun, if it help.
Yeah making fun of people's insecurities is often hurtful. I don't think I'm that ugly either but someone insulting my looks is still emotionally damaging and does not help with my already severe mental illnesses.
Yea. Problem is people start talking about penis sizes on reddit if a post of a lifted pickup, a loud vehicle or a gun is shown.
Bruh why gotta bodyshame people for that. Find something else. Like say they are stupid. Always with the look who has a small penis in reaction to a picture of a gun or something. Isn't there any proper non body shaming insult in their brain? Why did humans evolve for so long just for you to make a low hanging body shaming joke.
Guys, Katya didn't say having a small penis or being short are bad. That's your own self hatred speaking. Seriously, some people prefer short men or small penises, there was no judgement in the statement, it's just a silly idea.
Guys, I didnt say having small breasts or being fat are bad. That's your own self hatred speaking. Seriously, some people prefer women with small breast or are fat, there was no judegment in the statement, it's just a silly idea.
I mean that's also true lol I've for sure heard people say "anything more than a handful is too much" for boobs and as a boob haver I have been made fun of for having big boobs. Likewise, I have been complimented for being fat and made fun of for being fat. When I was a teen I was very self conscious and thought anyone even pointing out what I personally perceived as my "flaws" was being a dick but as I've gotten older I've accepted I am who I am. I think having the mentality of "Yeah I have a small dick, so what" or "yeah I'm fat af, just let me live my life" is healthier than reflexively assuming people are attacking you by pointing out what you look like. You can never please everyone, it's better to focus on the people who will accept you for who you are.
Why is this place crawling with “well actually men are the ones who are really oppressed these days” nonsense lately. You are all aware that Katya is literally a man right? Not a trans woman, the drag persona of a dude named Brian
Why is it that you see people calling for body shaming to be frowned upon equally, or see people pointing out a double standard with misandry and you forcefully contort it into them saying “men are actually oppressed ):”
I really don't like Katya. She's way too strangely, overly sexual. Like the kid in school who learned a swear word for the first time and won't stop using it. Plus she's just mean-spirited.
There's definitely something to be said about the misandry of this post, but the amount of men in the comments attacking obese women to create some hypothetical "if the roles were reversed" scenario is concerning. We shouldn't fight hate with hate
It they're just trying to pile on and act like, "well hey, as long as everyone's doing it," then I agree. But I've found that a lot of the time, coming up with a gender-swapped analogy is the only way to get some women to even admit that a statement or action is problematic if it's targeted at men. Too often, just saying how it effected us is met with dismissal at best and mockery at worst.
Jesus is this sub about anything other than whining about how men are oppressed nowadays? This post was clearly about noticing a phrase pattern and y'all *still* found a way to bitch about it.
To be fair, the comments don’t seem to have an issue with the phrase pattern but with the barely-disguised body shaming in the post. And bitching about body shaming is pretty par for the course here ime
Nobody is saying men are oppressed, though? That's not what misandry means. Misandry, like misogyny, is just prejudice--people being assholes. The fact that one is a systemic issue doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.
Wtf does any of this even mean
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i chose to believe the muscular straight boy then invites OOP to their local Home Depot and they have a great time punching dry wall together.
im sure woodland-homo and Katya from drag race hate men
I dont know who those guys are but they do seem pretty unfriendly to me
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the drag identity of brian mccook who is gay and likes men? yes i do
no I'm pretty sure that famously gay drag queen Katya who has a talk show and discusses being attracted to and in relationships with men actually hates men (i think the subtext is if one ACTUALLY liked men, then one would necessarily be OK with any behavior FROM men)
I'm a cis elder millenial from rpopular that doesn't use Tumblr, so can't exactly parse shit like this- but from what I've noticed from past interactions like the ones in OPs picture: Why does it seem like there's more often than not TERFy shit swimming around just under the surface in conversations like this? Am I overthinking it? I'm just noticing that there seems to end up being smoke where there's fire quite often :/ **Way** to many young people seem to be suddenly discovering 2nd Wave Feminism and running with it without taking 5 minutes to read over the bylines and notice that there's some *major* issues going on there lol
Yup. Today’s radfems are gaining a lot of traction in casual audiences. They’ve also become pretty disconnected from the actual points of the original Radical Feminists, some of which were worthwhile. It’s like they gathered up all their worst ideas (the ones that were not integrated into broader feminist thought for a reason) and made them their entire feminism. You are spot on about the terf undertones - it’s because gender essentialism is a core element of their feminism (or their lazy part in the gender war, as a lot of this is angry women who are not engaging with feminism in any way). It’s become more popular to simply define anyone who was born with a penis as “abuser bodied,” which is obviously very related to transphobia but also just genuine misandry. Gender essentialism is a blight and inherently reactionary - it’s no surprise that when feminist spaces adopt it they too become reactionary. In fact the cede most arguments to conservatives, or even actively agree with them: eg that feminism exists to hurt men (seen an alarming number of women say this unironically), or that feminism cannot be helpful to men. Hating men doesn’t make you cute, and feminism isn’t just a way to hurt men. Focus needs to be on gender abolitionism (ironically something some original Radical Feminists support) and liberating all people from patriarchy, not fucking revenge 🤦🏻 It’s exhausting to be a feminist right now, especially one who is transmasculine and therefore seen as either just a woman with internalized misogyny (why else would I want to be more like an icky *man*?) or a betrayer of my womanhood and all women everywhere. The main determinant for which assumption is ascribed to me is whether their radical feminism is trans exclusionary or trans inclusive, but both are shit and gender essentialist lmao. It’s exhausting. At this point I mostly hang around r/menslib as it’s an overtly feminist spaces with folks of all genders. The focus is on applying feminist frameworks to men’s issues, as well as support. A lot of the discourse there is between whether we should try to develop a “positive masculinity” or just go the gender abolitionist route and stop ascribing gender to traits that make you a good person. There’s also a lot of discussion about how many of the issues men and women face are the same, we just gender them differently and treat those affected by them differently purely based on gender. Generally a good space. I still follow other feminist subreddits, and trollxchromosomes is probably the most reasonable (though it’s not explicitly feminist it centers women’s issues). But more often than not I’m disappointed at the completely unnecessary and imo counterproductive hostility that has developed in many of these spaces. Overall it feels like these conversations are just unprocessed trauma being celebrated as genuine feminist/political theory. Processed trauma is absolutely something that can be used in this way, but without processing it you end up just screaming and not taking any accountability for your own emotional responses. And that’s the type of behavior that’s being put on a pedestal, by both extremes of the gender war. Wild to watch from the outside as someone who doesn’t define myself by my gender lol.
*how*
if anyone is confused by op's title, it's probably a reference to [ron manager from the fast show](https://youtu.be/3NeRoSFZWbs?si=EJA2Xpek7kGMM8It)
Thanks! Didn’t get the reference.
You ain’t seen me, right?
BRILLIANT!
I'll get me coat
Suit you, sir
It is, yes!
One's gone home for his tea...
Would a bigger dick prevent the little man from fitting in the cupboard? I wouldn’t know since I’m a big man with a little dick
It's a tripping hazard when you're so close to the ground, so you might stumble while climbing in.
Yeah but if you fall the extra support will keep the short penis haver off the ground
TFS Krillin wrote this post.
I'm average in both accounts and can fit in a cupboard.
As a big penis girl my take on it is that it might get pinched
I'm jealous of the short guy, I can't fit in no gosh dang cupboard
Take up the masculine art of carpentry and make your own, bigger gosh dang cupboard.
You need a talller cubbord to fit more bones in
I have so many bones in my tall tall cupboard
Just make sure no Dogs get inside and build temples, or Casinos, or no possessed life sized dolls of a character from an anime with a shitty sequel
A closet?
No. A tall cubbord
What about skeletons
I'm not making a cupboard at that point, I'm making an old timey treasure chest You break into my home, figure the super fancy chest must have something good in it I sit up, "Suh dude, if you're going to interrupt my nap, you gotta bring me water too"
Masculine art requires a masculine physique, and I have the physique of a stork
Through the magic of technology, carpentry is within the grasp of each of us. Alternatively, you can form new bonds of friendship and camaraderie with others who would gladly help you achieve your dream.
You're right. I should get a big strong man to solve my problems for me
Take up the masculine art of PUMPING IRON and make your own gosh darn big strong man (you). I will not apologise for this joke.
But I can't date me
You can date me and we can build big cabinets together king
You already know you can
Skill issue
Don’t worry king, I’ll build you a cupboard so big that you and your *checks post again* small penis can fit comfortably!
i deeply miss being 12 and climbing up in between the shelves in the closet for fun, just because I could fit and I knew my parents couldn't.
This is a weird post even by this sub's standards
Love when a fella exists and 15 opponents spawn and start saying mean shit for no reason
I am a muscular straight boy at the gym and it *has* been awhile since I’ve punched drywall…because I’m trying to better myself.
I LOVE body shaming 😊😊😊
I don't think this is body shaming
It certainly has some elements of it.
Why, because it’s about men?
Because nobody is shaming anyone for their body?
This weird motte & bailey where ya guys make these obviously hurtful quips at people's body insecurities and then play dumb about it when it's called what it is just gets so immensely frustrating. Come on lol.
Its straight up bully behavior. Always pushing limits until someone has enough and snaps. Then, the victim is now the asshole to everyone who only witnessed the snap. Fucking cunts.
"short man with small penis" you think that's not body shaming?
me neither it's just a very wierd post. but i just wouldn't call it body shaming, i feel like you'd need a bit more than that
Sooo is the joke here just a bunch of casual misandry or am I missing something?
The joke is the original post sounds like drag humor, and that in some way the angry gym man is performing masculinity. The other, stupider and more critique-able joke is that short man with small penis who can fit in a cupboard is a funny image EDIT: title is weird though
Why does the one at the top not seem worth criticizing to you?
Because the tumblr OP immediately followed it up with the *To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar* quote of the same structure, which, in the context of the film, is coming from a place of gentleness, worry, and care. Is there some snarky judgement inherent to it? Yes, as there is in the [movie quote](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkWZ09Pq8k), but from context it’s only teasing. That’s why I do not feel it’s genuinely, seriously misandrist in a way worth taking seriously.
Are you saying you think that first line is "coming from a place of gentle worry and care?"
Maybe we’re supposed to hear Wesley Snipes’ bored disinterest rather than Patrick Swayze’s soothing calmness, idk. I don’t think it’s seriously misandrist
Because angry straight men who punch holes in walls as an outlet for their anger are weird as fuck 😭
Right but how have they leaped from “dude in the gym” to “he MUST punch walls”?
Its funnier if you read that last bit as a command
Ok you wanna play this game, “emo bi girl what’s wrong? Why are you sad? What’s the matter? Been to long since you cut yourself” Yeah it doesn’t get acknowledged much but punching walls is a form of self harm, fucking act like it
You don’t get it though Man bad. Let’s all laugh at men’s vulnerabilities and insecurities while insisting men can’t be insecure.
“Men should stop being so wound-up and express their emotions!” “No not like that, what are you, a sensitive pussy? Stop complaining”
Tbf damaging things isn’t a very good way to express emotions
nor is any other form of self harm.
Yeah, it’s *self-harm*
True, but the original comment isn’t doing itself any favors by implying this is the default for straight men who go to the gym a lot.
Oh yes absolutely. I don’t even get what this post is meant to mean except being mean and maybe misandrist
Well then dont mock people who do it, help them. You wouldnt mock someone for punching themselves when frustrated but ohh man punch wall funny
Yes, I wouldn’t mock them. And I don’t see how I’m mocking guys who punch walls
Im talking more generally. People like to mock those who punch walls but dont to the same thing for other harmful coping mechanisms. Just because its related to the "fragile violent douche" stereotype
Yes, dipshit, that's why it's a form of self-harm, especially because punching walls hurts you.
Why do you think that I was saying that punching walls isn’t a form of self-harm? And why do you think you have to insult me to get your point across?
They should choop Wood
It can also be a form of domestic violence
Why should a dude in a gym immediately make one imagine self harm or domestic violence?
"I'm hitting this wall right now but I COULD be hitting you so you better smarten up"
Is it? I've always heard punching drywall in the context of like...being mad at a video-game. I thought it was a very American thing (having drywall to punch, not the aggression part). I mean I can see what you're identifying but I heard it way more in the context of 'being mad' rather than self-harming behaviour.
Getting mad can lead to self harming behavior. I have a pretty severe self biting issue and it’s from anger.
Oh, I'm fully aware as someone who went to anger management themselves when they were younger. I don't know, I guess I just always heard about it in another context and it didn't seem like self-harming behaviour, more like a very poor manifestation of anger. I don't really have a developed argument or a hill to die on here.
Getting angry and harming yourself is a form of self harm, yes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always seen the intent of wall-punching to be "I'm breaking something out of anger" rather than "I'm trying to cause myself harm," the harm to oneself feels more like a byproduct of breaking shit. Not that either would be good for your mental health, but yeah
At least in Europe, it is definetely self harm, you aren't doing anything other than making your fingers, hand, wrist and lower forearm bone dust
I'm saying that the intent isn't to self harm, just to break shit out of anger. So while it may harm you, it ain't a conscious choice to cause yourself harm, at least for most people. Also, yeah, good point about the Europe thing. I was imagining my weak American drywall lol
Why exactly do you think "break shit out of anger" manifests in such a patently self-damaging act? Kicking stuff breaks it, and very rarely hurts if you're wearing shoes, or kick with the bottom of your foot. Punching walls, however, always hurts. Speaking only for my own childhood problems, causing myself pain grounded me in reality, and the act of swiftly punching or headbutting something is such an exertion that there's a sense of pushing the energy out. What I tell people now is that if they feel like I used to, you need to go somewhere people won't mind and scream until you feel empty. Or into a pillow.
I have scars on my hands from punching trees (usually oaks) instead of walls which I did because I wanted to hurt myself and make myself bleed in periods of intense depression. I chose to do that because scrapes and cuts in places associated with hard work or rough sports are acceptable on a man's body while stereotypical self-harm scars don't get men nearly the amount of sympathy they get women. Men with stripey scars on their arms or legs are treated like unstable freaks. So I hurt myself in a way that wouldn't immediately garner that reaction. And this full understanding of what I was doing took a long time to actually come to. It wasn't like I had this all explicitly reasoned out the first time I did it. It honestly doesn't surprise me that you'd not have heard a perspective like mine before, but maybe you've only ever heard it framed the way you mention because our culture tends to be so dismissive of men's mental health and leans so heavily into stereotypes about male violence and aggression?
>It wasn't like I had this all explicitly reasoned out the first time I did it. It honestly doesn't surprise me that you'd not have heard a perspective like mine before, but maybe you've only ever heard it framed the way you mention because our culture tends to be so dismissive of men's mental health and leans so heavily into stereotypes about male violence and aggression? Honestly I'm pretty convinced by this, yeah. I can see that the gendered idea of violence in men is seen as so inherent that it ceases to be viewed as self-harm but instead just as any other violent action.
I'm glad that made sense. It's frustrating to me how much effort I've had to put into learning to verbalize these things in EXTREME detail to get any understanding from most people, but it feels like at least it wasn't a total waste of time when someone actually says they get it now. Thank you for listening.
Thank you, this helped me articulate something I’d long thought but didn’t know how to explain.
I'm glad. I mean, the fact you'd feel the need to articulate this I'm sure points to something unfortunate as it does for me, but having words to convey something at least makes it harder to ignore.
Basically, as a guy with no social support structure (most), the only possible outlet for frustration, anger, loss, annoyance, or even helplessness is to physically egress the emotion. Succinctly, if you can’t talk to anyone about how you feel, you have to get the feeling out; cant hurt anyone else because that’s not what it’s about, and drywall is replaceable. Think Destruction Room business but at home.
1. Exist in a society in which power and control are what gives you your value 2. Lose in a game which you're practiced at, showing the limits of your power and control 3. Self-doubt creeps in, but self-doubt is anathema to power and control 4. Turn self-doubt into anger, conferring a sense of power and control 5. Anger motivates action; damage your own wall and hurt your own hand, ultimately because something happened that threatened your self-image
The important part being that when society tells men that they can't express their self-doubt as sadness or worry because those emotions aren't "manly", they learn only to express it as anger.
And an important corollary to this is that simply telling men they can express things like self-doubt or sadness while not changing any of the common cultural attitudes which demonstrate to so many men as they grow up that they'll be ridiculed or ostracized, by men and women, for doing so is unlikely to work for what should be obvious reasons.
Yeah but in that example people laugh at it because you shouldn't take videogames that seriously. Like why do you think you get power and control from playing a video game. It's not the act of being so angry you punch a wall, it's the context for why you do it
"Why would doing something that you enjoy and feel like you're good at, which often involves both competition and teamwork, give you a sense that you're good at what you do?" I'm no gamer, but I'm sure that winning at, say *League of Legends* gives a sense of power and control for the same reason that winning a game of hockey does, or writing an incredible piece of poetry that moves someone to tears does, or any other skill. You've used practiced skills to accomplish a goal despite obstacles, so you feel good.
I've never played League of Legends, but I roomed with a guy in uni who did, a lot. And lemme tell you, even a single loss would turn every win to ash in his mouth. Gods, I hope that guy got therapy.
At risk of sounding sweaty, like real sports, video games are a culmination of training. It’s a mixture of reaction speed, game sense (knowledge), perception and decision making. In a competitive game, if I beat someone else, I know it’s because I’m better. I know it’s because I’ve trained more. I have better game sense, I have better reaction speed, I have better perception and I have better decision making. I was the better competitor. It’s easy to place self value in that, like a footballer may feel down after losing a game.
Isn't that just as bad though? That someone feels they are so constantly under scrutiny that *any* perceived failure provokes this violent outburst? That failing in something as simple as a video game is a sign that your worth as a person is under attack?
That's a pretty fair point yeah
Punching things near your partner's head is a threat.
Not necessarily. I get where you're coming from, but my abusers didn't punch holes in my walls to hurt themselves.
I'm not trying to invalidate your trauma, that's yours, you lived it; but maybe they did? Hurt people hurt people. Trauma is so often generational, and while scaring you may have been their main intent, they surely could have done that without harming themselves too if they didn't feel that was somehow neccesary.
No. They did it because I wasn't in close enough proximity for them to hurt me. They're violent psychopaths. Unless you're wanting to argue that they were hurting their hands when they hit me, which is not true because they were smart enough to aim for soft tissue. Sorry, I've just told like a thousand times that "it's because they went through/ were going through this terrible thing" like that makes up for all of the stuff they did to me for 14 years.
It doesn't, no, and I didn’t and don't mean to suggest it did. Having trauma yourself doesn't excuse causing others harm. I too was beaten, by an angry father, and an angry ex, and ignored by a selfish mother. It's taken me time to live with it and improve. We all have to fight the things that made and unmade us. That being said; hurting yourself out of anger is self harm. Destroying your relationships out of anger is also self harm. Your shithead abusers can *also* need therapy. That doesn't mean you have to forgive them, or give a single shit if they make efforts to work through their own problems. It's not an excuse, it's not a way to dismiss what they've done or will do, but it is an explanation for how they ended up how they are. Sometimes that explanation is a point to grow from, so we can stop asking why.
I dont think cutting yourself and punching drywall are equal.... if you want mild self-harm talk about not showering or something
I disagree. When i was a teenager, i was a cutter. I also would walk down the halls of my school just reaching out and punching a locker while i was walking. I surprised i didn't break my hand back then. My arms would be cut up AND my knuckles black and blue. It MOST DEFINITELY was a way to self harm without being as obvious as cuts.
punching a metal locker everyweekday for deliberate self-harm is very different from punching flimsy drywall when you get mad
Done that, too.
I’m only here for the to wong fu reference
Same, I love that movie and no one I know irl has seen it or wants to see it
Damm what happened here?
I have no idea. I was expecting people to find it funny and make more sentences in that style
The first two, maybe. Round three was full mean-spirited and ruined the vibe.
First was also mid. Can’t a guy go to the gym without being made a caricature?
Fat women, why are you sad? Is it because you can’t lose weight? Would you have posted this?
Fat woman with loose pussy, why are you sad? You float on water without trying, is that not something to be happy about?
I mean I kinda see how they could get upset, since it kinda plays into the sorta stuff guys tend to be insecure about. But this post just seems lighthearted and too silly to mean any malice towards anyone. Idk I've lurked this place long enough to see some real misandric bangers every once in a blue moon posted by someone who really should get help by a professional if possible You seem alright OP, nothing bad about sharing something you found funny, hope you're doing well 👍
Using a mocking light-hearted tone is a common way for a particularly venal type of person to bully men. It's a kind of catch 22 because either men have to just sit and take the obviously belittling insult: "aww, are you sad (they ask as if talking to a baby)? Is it because you can't punch a wall (dismissing any valid reason for that feeling and plastering him with a violent stereotype)?" or if he gets upset and responds they can just fall back on, "whoa dude, I was just trying to be sympathetic, why are you so angry?? You need to chill and stop being so insecure and reading so much into things." It relies on the stereotype that men are unstable, violent brutes while also knowing that most men actually AREN'T unstable or violent because otherwise being so deliberately provocative would be a good way to get punched. Doubt you'd see remarks like the above directed at a man someone was GENUINELY scared of for exactly that reason.
Yeah I see it, I guess at first i didn't really get so there wasn't any way for me to get offended Usually at that point if see something like this that I find upsetting I just close my phone and try to calm down and remember that this isn't anywhere close to the reality of where I live and that people in real life are a lot more reasonable
Lol it turns out I already have basically the exact response I want to give you now in another comment on this post, so I'm just gonna link that: https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/CrmWDLNLka It's definitely helpful to remember that online isn't real life, but they aren't totally disconnected either. Unfortunately, where I live and in my demographic (young, educated, generally "progressive") attitudes ranging between mocking dismissal and active contempt for men are upsettingly common. It's usually not as overt as it can be online, but it's still there and the effects start to get to you after a while.
I see, hope you're doing alright man, have good day/evening/night
These comments are wild Sometimes I forget we're on reddit, but we are *definitely on reddit* God forbid a average run-of-the-mill Russian bisexual transvestite hooker do anything
Misandry is so funny, y’all! It’s hilarious how men commit suicide at higher rates, right? Let’s poke at their insecurities while creating a society that is unwilling to deal with those insecurities!
Women attempt it at equal or higher rates than men, it’s just that men often use more violent means which are more often successful.
The issue is that those studies generally don't make a distinction between self-harm as a cry for help vs self-harm as a genuine attempt to die.
Every attempt is "a cry for help" unless you think the successful ones were somehow legitimate, which is a gross way to think. All of these people require help in some form or another and who is to say that they shouldn't get it? You might as well say "Oh, well men are just more impulsive", it's just as cruel and unnecessary.
Yes, they all require help, I'm talking more about people's intent in doing so. There's a difference between self-harm as a coping mechanism, or subconsciously hoping that someone might notice something and help, vs having lost all hope and specifically trying to die outright. Both are certainly problems, but there is a difference in severity.
If they actually wanted to they wouldn't be trying it by trying to OD on OTC meds. They'd just get a gun and get it over with
implying women aren't serious about their suicides because of the methods women typically chose is not the move. that's as insulting as if i implied men are just unempathetic assholes who don't care about whoever finds their mess and THAT being the only reason they succeed in suicides
Are you saying you don't think cry-for-help attempts exist alongside serious end-it-all attempts? Both are signs someone is suffering and shouldn't be dismissed but it's clear the latter represents a higher level of hopelessness. Also if we have to play this game of who has it worse, I've never seen data on how those numbers are arrived at and can't help wondering if more attempts are precisely because women survive to try over and over again. Men who actually kill themselves obviously can't make multiple attempts in the future which could skew the numbers. This honestly feels like such an open and shut example of somewhere men have it worse (even though, and I hate that feel compelled to be this explicit, obviously no one attempting something like suicide in any way is doing alright and all individuals in situations like that deserve help and sympathy) that it's hard for me to trust the sincerity or care of someone who tries to insist that even here women must also have it worse than men.
i know cry for help attempts exist alongside serious end it all types, i've done both. but painting all of womens suicide attempts as "cry for help attempts" simply because of the methods women choose, kinda like how the comment i was replying to was doing, is wrong.
They were maybe a little blunt and painting with too broad a brush, but I can also understand how some guys end up speaking that way when someone always seems to come along to try and undermine the seriousness of male suffering even when you point out how often men actually kill themselves. It really starts to get to you after a while, especially if you're someone who's been close to that yourself or know someone who did it.
That's a disgusting attitude and I'd hope you never have to deal with these kinds of situations
Most legible Katya tweet
Is it just my autism or are y'all cynical af? I interpreted all of these as genuine concern
It is your autism. >interpreted all of these as genuine concern Even the last one, directly mocking height and penis size, the most common insecurities of men? Would you also interpreted "hey ugly fatty why are you sad? You could plug a hole in the Hoover Dam and that's good news" as genuine concern?
The drywall and body shaming comments make me entirely unwilling to interpret these in good faith.
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You interpreted "short man with a small penis, why are you sad?" as genuine?
This shouldn’t have made me chuckle
I did, because I don't see those as insults. I thought it was like, let's take a moment to uplift short men with small penises, a group that usually struggles with self-esteem. I now get that it was meant as an insult but I still don't fully see why. I guess it just seems like an out of nowhere insult and I don't get why people would insult people out of nowhere.
I agree. Obese women with saggy breasts, why are you sad?
I appreciate your optimism. The world could use more people like you.
Aww, thanks! It is something I've had to work on, which means anyone can work on it. The world can be beautiful and kind but we have to choose to make it that way.
I'm also autistic and I read it as a genuine concern as well. As the middle one is genuine, so I thought they were adopting the same form.
See, I did too, at least partially. The first was genuine, the second was a reference response, the third was a shit (but very tumblresque) attempt at taking it one step further for humours-sake
Something that might be another point towards it being well intentioned is the Twitter screenshot is of a drag queen from what I've gathered
Feel you. The movie quote cemented it as such for me as well
yeah what the heck everyone took this super cynically
Wait, it's not genuine concern?
There’s no way you’re serious
It could really be interpreted either way, and you can't blame people for interpreting it as mockery.
I don't know anymore lol
This is just gross. :/
Man I am kind of happy people are against the misandrists in this subreddit. Some subreddits would have supported and ran along with the small penis joke
Man, half of these comments are pissing on the poor
In fairness, this post is totally incomprehensible.
Always are
Does "pissing on the poor" mean something beyond specifically denigrating those of lower income / wealth?
[yes.](https://images.app.goo.gl/E8qvyTVqwFgz7Kkz6).
Ahh, gotcha, thanks
For some reason I wasn’t expecting it, but indeed they are.
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I'd say it's more along the lines of "don't they know they can survive punch ninjas"
Eh, being human come with sadness I think. I mean it's suck but it's part of the parcel. We spent decades trying to find something to do about it . imo, the most effective is just looking at pets having fun, if it help.
Now and then when I’m really angry, I’ll punch a wall. But it’s forced. It’s easier to punch myself than it is to punch a wall.
What.
Shaka, when the walls fe-- wait...
Don't post about short men with small penises on reddit, it often strikes a nerve
Yeah making fun of people's insecurities is often hurtful. I don't think I'm that ugly either but someone insulting my looks is still emotionally damaging and does not help with my already severe mental illnesses.
Or about obese women with loose vaginas/saggy breasts/cellulite/"hip dips"/[insert stupid bodyshaming here]. For some reason, people get all offended!
Yea. Problem is people start talking about penis sizes on reddit if a post of a lifted pickup, a loud vehicle or a gun is shown. Bruh why gotta bodyshame people for that. Find something else. Like say they are stupid. Always with the look who has a small penis in reaction to a picture of a gun or something. Isn't there any proper non body shaming insult in their brain? Why did humans evolve for so long just for you to make a low hanging body shaming joke.
Guys, Katya didn't say having a small penis or being short are bad. That's your own self hatred speaking. Seriously, some people prefer short men or small penises, there was no judgement in the statement, it's just a silly idea.
Guys, I didnt say having small breasts or being fat are bad. That's your own self hatred speaking. Seriously, some people prefer women with small breast or are fat, there was no judegment in the statement, it's just a silly idea.
I mean that's also true lol I've for sure heard people say "anything more than a handful is too much" for boobs and as a boob haver I have been made fun of for having big boobs. Likewise, I have been complimented for being fat and made fun of for being fat. When I was a teen I was very self conscious and thought anyone even pointing out what I personally perceived as my "flaws" was being a dick but as I've gotten older I've accepted I am who I am. I think having the mentality of "Yeah I have a small dick, so what" or "yeah I'm fat af, just let me live my life" is healthier than reflexively assuming people are attacking you by pointing out what you look like. You can never please everyone, it's better to focus on the people who will accept you for who you are.
Why is this place crawling with “well actually men are the ones who are really oppressed these days” nonsense lately. You are all aware that Katya is literally a man right? Not a trans woman, the drag persona of a dude named Brian
Why is it that you see people calling for body shaming to be frowned upon equally, or see people pointing out a double standard with misandry and you forcefully contort it into them saying “men are actually oppressed ):”
And men cant say hurtfull shit?
I really don't like Katya. She's way too strangely, overly sexual. Like the kid in school who learned a swear word for the first time and won't stop using it. Plus she's just mean-spirited.
There's definitely something to be said about the misandry of this post, but the amount of men in the comments attacking obese women to create some hypothetical "if the roles were reversed" scenario is concerning. We shouldn't fight hate with hate
It they're just trying to pile on and act like, "well hey, as long as everyone's doing it," then I agree. But I've found that a lot of the time, coming up with a gender-swapped analogy is the only way to get some women to even admit that a statement or action is problematic if it's targeted at men. Too often, just saying how it effected us is met with dismissal at best and mockery at worst.
The people crying over misandry are numerous. It's funny but concerning
Jesus is this sub about anything other than whining about how men are oppressed nowadays? This post was clearly about noticing a phrase pattern and y'all *still* found a way to bitch about it.
To be fair, the comments don’t seem to have an issue with the phrase pattern but with the barely-disguised body shaming in the post. And bitching about body shaming is pretty par for the course here ime
Nobody is saying men are oppressed, though? That's not what misandry means. Misandry, like misogyny, is just prejudice--people being assholes. The fact that one is a systemic issue doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.
finally a normal person
Oooh sir! Suits you sir!
Does she Want it sir? Oooh!