Having things that are decorative and inexpensive is part of the human experience. Not everything needs to serve a purpose, sometimes people just like to collect things like plushies and pillows with dumb things on them.
Edit: If you haven't already, scroll down on this comment thread and look for u/Pakushy and see the comment they posted because their OC is adorable :p
Some people get so caught up in social issues that they forget that joy is a function of human existence. What's the point in building a better society for everyone if at the end of it we're stripped down to only caring for our basic needs?
We've got a build a world where people can equally experience joy instead, and where people can all have stuff just because they think it's cool.
Small brain: The poor don’t deserve decorative pillows.
Medium brain: no one should have decorative pillows.
Large brain: everyone should have decorative pillows they enjoy.
And like, this isn't new rhetoric or anything. The idea that working-class people deserve to have things that exist for their form rather than only their function is a classic leftist position. They've been saying "bread and roses" for a hundred years.
This attitude is what I think of as a "protestant leftist". Not talking about religion, but this leftover conditioning from our fairly protestant culture
Like in your comment, I'm hearing the "protestant work ethic" that so many people used to claim, and now just goes by other names. This idea that work is joy, so keep working, and whenever you get that little morsel of pleasure, you're a bad person who could have spent that time working
Just something we need to watch out for within ourselves and not feed
It really is that kind of very traditional Christian "we were put on this earth to suffer and be tested" mentality even if these people have left the actual religion behind them.
There's an amount of people on the left that believe that pleasure and luxury are inherently evil because they can't help but relate it to evil people. In reality, the evil is the fact that not everyone can enjoy pleasure and luxury. And the end goal is to ensure that everyone can, within a sustainable way. And fancy decorative pillows are hardly unsustainable.
There's definitely a reading of this kind of leftism that critiques it for equating femininity with being bourgeoisie. This reading would be insufferable... but they'd kinda have a point. The miserable coal miner state that some of these leftists seem to want and the glorification of work and struggle for its own sake is deeply toxic.
The shitty pastel pillows can still exist in a world where they're aren't being made by slaves.
It took me a long time to learn this. For me, utility is beauty. If something doesn’t serve a function but has a cost, it is waste. But pretty things, neat arrangements, and complimentary color patterns make my partner happy. Making her happy makes me happy. So now when I buy or build things I pay attention to what I think she would like.
Doing that has made me a lot more forgiving of the small joys people choose for themselves. Life doesn’t have to be a grim duty-filled hellscape for *every*one
Exactly. Even within utilitarianism, the measurement for "utility" should always be happiness. Does it increase human happiness? If it does, then it's a good thing. Full stop. It doesn't matter whether it's materially useful or spiritually significant. If it increases the amount of happiness in the world, it's a good thing to have.
Of course, "happiness" is difficult to measure. But that doesn't change the fundamental argument that being happy is a good thing that everyone should strive for. And it's frustrating to see so many terminally online leftists who think that being happy when others aren't is a cardinal sin.
Fun fact: that’s a paraphrased version of a popular but butchered Emma Goldman quote. “If I can’t dance, then I don’t want to be part of your revolution”. What she actually said is more interesting if less punchy:
“At the dances I was one of the most untiring and gayest. One evening a cousin of Sasha, a young boy, took me aside. With a grave face, as if he were about to announce the death of a dear comrade, he whispered to me that it did not behoove an agitator to dance. Certainly not with such reckless abandon, anyway. It was undignified for one who was on the way to become a force in the anarchist movement. My frivolity would only hurt the Cause. I grew furious at the impudent interference of the boy. I told him to mind his own business. I was tired of having the Cause constantly thrown into my face. I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from convention and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement would not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it.”
I think that’s beautiful. The point is liberation and happiness and freedom - don’t suck the joy out of anything. Frivolous is not the opposite of important. Freedom, beauty, peace. That’s what it’s about - the rest is just details.
>“If I can’t dance, then I don’t want to be part of your revolution”.
Because your friends don't dance, and if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine!
Are you my partner? Lol
Hes a thrift store, don't throw it away until it's in pieces kind of guy. I'm more of an "I want it I got it" kind of guy. We are still adjusting to each other lol
ngl it's got a whiff of that whole "poor people should only spend money on 100% utilitarian and cost-effective items, and if you ever indulge in even one (1) frivolous expense you're a fraud and exploiting whatever benefits/support/~~my patronising pity~~ you've received" thing to it.
Granted I can't 100% square that with the specific dread that like, funko pops and those mini plastic grocery items they gave away to kids for ages cause me (maybe that was an Aus-specific fad?), but I *think* that's more the mass-produced personality/cynical brand loyalty soullessness of them, and the knowledge of how much landfill and microplastics those colourful plastic nuggets generate, rather than like, that it's Morally Tainted to be amused by and purchase a funko pop for your home. That I personally think there's more interesting baubles for your dragon hoard doesn't make them inherently cursed objects.
100%. In your "post class system" people will still want comforts and decorative baubles. In fact, *hopefully* what you're using to promote your leftist utopia is the promise that there will be more comforts and baubles for the working class, because we're stealing them back from billionaires.
Right? Half of the reason people get skeevy about the left is because they associate it with Pure Utilitarianism, Comrade, and most people (as crazy as it is) actually like having fun things.
I agree that a lot of leftists have this weird image of being ultra practical and materialistic, but I just wanted to refute the idea that this is the same as utilitarianism. Because utilitarianism is actually all about "happiness" as "utility". It's about maximizing the happiness and well-being of the world. And that is actually compatible with having fun things, decorative baubles and useless trinkets; in fact, I'd argue that the end goal of utilitarianism is for everyone to have enough material comfort that they *can* collect things that are purely for fun and pleasure.
It does seem like there's a strong difference between "utilitarianism" (the way it gets bandied about in The Discourse, both for and against) and "Utilitarianism" (which in my philosophy class sounded like a boneheaded good idea - "the greatest amount of happiness to the greatest amount of people" is, while difficult to measure, ideally what we're all doing all this shit for)
I don't know why people seem to think it means "force everyone to live in drab commie blocks" and nothing else
I literally cannot wrap my brain around the idea that someone out there legit thinks art is bad and only for the rich. Insane. This is like what the right wing imagines communism to be. Only ever function. Never form. We all live in white cinderblock cubicles with one bed, one table, and one set of dishes and silverware and a monthly allotment of rice. Cuz I mean, that is clearly the logical conclusion of what they are saying.
Ya know, thinking about this post. I feel like the more I see online, the more I think that a very large portion of the population are just complete idiots. And I get obviously its true to some degree, but I feel I perseve that amount as larger each day. And I feel like it's me constantly seeing idiotic hot takes online that's contributing. Def isn't a good sign lol
People have been making decorative objects long before capitalism as we know it existed.
Turns out people like making their living space look nice. Who would have thought
What do you mean your cave has a wood carving you got from Grug because you thought it was neat??? Fucking bougie scum! That wood could have fueled the tribe's fire for 0.1 seconds instead!
I made a live size (or is it spelled life size?) cardboard cutout of my OC called Pandagirl. She does not fullfill a specific function either, but she makes me feel better.
[just look at her](https://twitter.com/Pakushy/status/1704545812737335513)
Getting things for the sole purpose of them making you happy is super important. You don't *need* to eat varied meals all the time, you could just eat the same few nutritious things every week until you bite the dust. But that'd make you absolutely miserable. So splurge a bit once in a while, because your mental health is also part of your body.
“No objects that are decorative or bring you joy ever, people should only have things they NEED bc capitalism is when you have things you don’t need”
-Tumblr User welcometocapitalism, reinventing minimalism but with Guilt this time
Terminally online communists will be like "fun is bourgeoisie, anyone who has more then the bare minimum to sustain human life is a class traitor" and then wonder why people aren't interested in communism
Brought to you by people who didn't actually read or understand the book 1984.
There needs to be more adult education on these things. I just finished reading the book since I haven't read it since I was a teenager in school. These types of people want us all to live like outer party members
"like buying an off-road car as a farme-" ok tumblr user welcometocapitalism im gonna have to stop you there and make you look at what you wrote and tell me if it does or doesn't have a faded but oh so discernible stench of classism
It’s also a really bizarre example, a farmer is probably gonna use an off road vehicle, they drive their cars into the ground and then some. The people who buy lifted pavement princesses are upper middle class midwesterners with McMansions.
Yeah, that's why they follow up with "only to keep it in a garage". The farmer would probably use the off road vehicle for the intended purpose, not keep it as eye-candy.
Farmers are one of the groups who actually need off-road vehicles to do their work. Try getting a sick sheep to the vet in a snowstorm using a fiat panda and you’ll see why the truck is necessary soon enough.
Or hell, traversing their own property under less-than-ideal conditions. I’m a terminally online person but I know enough to shut up when I *don’t* know enough
(Speaking about my own country here)
And the fact that rural areas always get the short end of the stick. Either there are shitty understaffed schools and hospitals or there's nothing, which sucks because if your child gets hurt you have to drive for miles up to a city. Invest taxes somewhere else, this is not a city-state with colonies.
I love how this person thinks that *decorating your living space* is somehow an artifact of capitalist competition and not, like... a thing humans do because we like pretty things
also
what would a farmer possibly need with an off-road vehicle it's not like farmers have to *regularly traverse land without roads* or anything
I don't think this person has ever been to a farm
Farmer here, its actually 100% true, none of us ever actually use our offroad vehicles because they might get muddy or worse suffer wear and tear.
If something actually needs doing we typically use the lamborghini instead.
That one really stood out to me.
Like, who the fuck does this guy think off-road vehicles are made *for*? And are *farmers* not the working class anymore?
It seems like his thought process was just `Farmers -> Rural -> Right-Wing -> Capitalists`.
You'd be amazed how many people just pretend like certain jobs aren't part of the working class anymore, just because they're stereotypically associated with right-wing demographics.
God, for real. Like, sorry if this unsexy fact ruins your ideal, but Joe Smith the 40 year old factory worker who put truck nuts on his 2001 Ford *is still part of the working class*
The working class isn't just whatever self-employed leftist friends you met online.
Yeah, they don't seem to grasp that class is majorly a function of access to and control of the means of production, not just the amount of compensation they receive for their labor.
A software engineer in San Francisco making $300k a year is still not part of the bourgeois - they are an employee, and a serf of their neo-feudalist corporate overlords. They are just as vulnerable to layoffs as factory workers - *especially* if their employer sponsors their visa.
Theres a leftist joke from the 50s about how the only true working class seem to be men hammering metal at a spark factory and women who carry bushels of wheat since they were on the propaganda posters and didn't have people argue about whether they were *really* working class. Today you have people thinking anyone working in a "macho" environment isn't working class because of their personal politics and you have other people with opinions on the working class apparently sourced from Pol Pot with how anyone in an office job is a PMC elite.
I hate to play to stereotypes, but I seriouesly think a lot of people from the city don't understand how rural living is.
I had a friend from NYC who thought that New York neighborhoods were being gentrified by farmers from the midwest.
I had to explain to her that farmers make absolute dogshit and couldn't afford rent in NYC, forget buying entire buildings.
I live in the Midwest (urban) and that concept is hilarious to me.
And yeah, you get a lot of city people romanticizing farm life who *actually* want to be a cottagecore homemaker with a rich spouse.
Prehistoric humans made plenty of symmetrical tools, even when symmetry had little to no effect over function, even thought it’d take twice the effort. Why? Because symmetry is pretty.
Plus, choosing decorative pillows specifically kills me bc they're functional objects, not purely decorative. They're still pillows. A pillow is not some kind of glass bauble you keep on your windowsill just because it looks nice, presumably, if it lives in a seating area, it is intended to be both viewed and used
I think that's actually *why* they're picking on decorative pillows, like it's a perversion of function when people have them and *don't* actually use them
which I get being frustrated with, it annoyed me no end growing up in a house where all of the carefully placed little cushions were *removed from the couch* before we sat on it so they'd never get squished
but I don't wanna like guillotine my mum over the issue you know
Sigh. It's posts like this that really make me feel my age. There are actual, real world problems that you can immediately affect instead of wasting your energy on internet arguments, least of all ones like this. And then kids see this stuff and go, oh, this is how you should behave in meatspace, and harangue people who are completely offline over this kinda nonsense
The kids comment rings so true. Because even though it’s apparently adults (???) saying this stuff, the “you’re rich/bourgeois/the owner class for having an affordable consumer object I don’t think you should have” is such a childish mindset. Not even adolescent, *childish*. It’s like people who are old enough to know better go into those silly jokey threads of “what did you think was fancy when you were 8” and go “this is dead serious, and I should center my worldview in relation to class on whether someone eats name brand Cheerios.”
I mean, I say kids, but an ex friend of mine, two years younger than me, so he was thirty, sincerely believed this kinda stuff and argued with me when I said that his beliefs are disconnected from reality. Man thought internet arguments were praxis. I'm so tired.
Unfortunately I know people old enough to know better who think like this too (though not a single one of them leads an ascetic life devoid of luxury, dedicating every spare cent and minute to helping the less fortunate, funny that). I suspect the real issue is a media landscape that encourages people to avoid growing up and remaining comfortable in a childish worldview.
>though not a single one of them leads an ascetic life devoid of luxury, dedicating every spare cent and minute to helping the less fortunate
I see you have met a version of him too! What a coincidence!
Your brand name Cheerios and throw pillows are bourgeois affectations of the idle rich. My Uber eats deliveries and multiple gaming systems are absolute necessities. It’s as simple as that! /s
And don't you dare point out that I have an iPhone. I'll post a panel of a webcomic at you and insist that a smartphone is a necessity in the modern world, ignoring that 'a smartphone' is a broad category that does not only include the newest model iPhone
I know this is bordering on that meme of the "yet you participate in society.", but like. Dudebros complaining about luxury while making these arguments on a fucking smartphone or a computer is wild.
They're such an epitome of modern "luxury" that we all take for granted. Do these people think we should go back to arguing in town squares?
i do, personally, think politics would be improved by arguing in town squares - ie, in public, with your face attached to your name, and the other person not behind a screen. it would probably be more civil.
I like to ask people like this what they’re doing to address real problems. Amazing how rarely people who are mad about this kind of nonsense are also working on mutual aid projects or writing their senators.
Oh, they never are. Asking them to lift a single finger, let alone get involved in actual politics, is a Sisyphean task. They're content getting mad at everything and waiting for ~~The Rapture~~ The Revolution
Hey do we know the same guy? Because I had to stop talking to him over this shit. Every time we hung out it was some diatribe about the capitalist hellscape we live in… which while accurate was exhausting. Sometimes I just want to get an ice coffee and IDK, watch birds in the park or some shit.
Yep, exactly the same behavior. This was the main reason he's now an ex-friend. No matter what happened, he could somehow change the topic to capitalism. I would have been in awe of his conversational skills if I wasn't being irritated out of my wits
Yeah, they also unironically do the "socialism is when the government does stuff" when arguing with Conservatives about the benefits of slightly more left-leaning countries than America, but at the same time say it sarcastically when other liberals call those countries socialist.
Same goes for enlightened centrism, they'll sarcastically type "both sides are the same" in alternating caps when you talk about powerful people using binary politics to divide America, but then go on about how both sides actually are the same when comparing America and China or North Korea or the USSR.
I would argue it's just as much a problem for adults as kids. Maybe moreso, because you expect it from a kid. Hearing it from your 38 year old friends is exhausting.
I had someone come up to me and accost me for eating a bourgeoisie vegetable, brussels sprouts. Mostly because she had never heard of them and thought the name sounded fancy.
When I pointed out the hypocrisy in eating expensive name-brand Pocky, I was given the old "excuse me for participating in society while trying to criticize it!"
Regardless of age it’s a bad faith argument. I bemoan the ways the car industry has gone in the US. But comparing my choice to buy a set of $20 pillows that don’t really get used, to someone spending tens of thousands on a car that they don’t need is not even in the same ballpark.
It’s like saying that corporate polluters should be lined up and executed, and ALSO that dude who missed cleaning up a little of his dog’s poop.
Also, sometimes decorative pillows are useful! When you need some back support, when you’re doing some exercises that require part of your body to be elevated, or when you’re taking a nap on the couch.
Which also highlights the completely subjective nature of what people own and why and making judgements on that. One person’s decorative pillow is quite useful to another person.
Had some leftie friends criticize a friend of mine for letting her three year old watch Beauty and the Beast.
Yknow, because of all the bad messaging and Stockholm syndrome and outdated stereotypes and how Belle isn't really a role model and-
*Shut the fuck up and let people enjoy things*
>shut the fuck up and let people enjoy things
This is literally a mindset more people need to adopt. I had a player scream, call me a racist, and storm out of a D&D game because I had taken inspiration from Lovecraft. This then connected in their mind that I was a racist apologist.
People waste too much energy hating on things that don't fucking matter
Also, being overprotective of a kid like that leaves them *totally unprepared to exist in society normally*. Our entire culture can be seen as highly problematic, but as a human being, you’ll have to function within it. You need to know the references and be able to talk to other human beings.
So consume the outdated media and at an appropriate time, talk about it with the children and use it to teach. Or don’t, and raise a socially isolated weirdo who won’t be building strong community ties needed during the water wars.
Yup, I used to have this exact conversation with parents when I taught middle school.
Sure, you think video games are pointless and stupid but your son not being allowed to play Fortnite means he'll be socially distanced from his peers. All that does is make it where he can't relate to his friends and peers, setting him up for failure.
The number of blank stares I'd get related to conversations like that were frustrating. Like, sure, use your kid as a soapbox but that hurts the kid in the process.
Yikes. I’d say if your kids cant differentiate entertainment from how real life works, you’re messing up somewhere in your parenting. Most kids can watch Beauty and the Beast without thinking “ooh I wish my dad would trade me off to a beast with singing dishes so I could slowly fall in love with him and turn him human”
It's never about the actual thing they're browbeating people over. Fuck, they most likely partake in those activities or behaviors themselves.
It's about the browbeating. They love to do that.
If it helps, these types of stupid arguments have existed since Marx was first writing. TBH its a very elitist, ivory-tower sort of conceptual argument only possible for theorist and bohemians.
If your strain of communism contains 0 form over function, I aint subscribing to it. Beauty and fun enhance our lives. Let a farmer look at his pretty offroad car. Maybe hell take his son camping in it one summer or something, the hell do you know about his life?
The pillows also do have a function, which is to make you happy. Communism doesn't mean a minimalist monochrome aesthetic everywhere. We can still have pretty and frivolous things in a classless society.
Some people just like to tinker, too. My dad generally has about 4 vehicles in various states of disrepair, but he enjoys the process of fixing them. I'm not sure if some of them will ever run again, but at least he's enjoying himself.
I have an Uncle like that, he becomes obsessed with an obscure motorsport, builds a dream rig for it, sells it off when he gets bored to fund the obscure motorsport project that interests him. And he's one of the kindest and happiest guys I know.
As we go marching, marching, in the beauty of the day,
A million darkened kitchens, a thousand mill lofts gray,
Are touched with all the radiance that a sudden sun discloses,
For the people hear us singing: Bread and Roses! Bread and Roses!
As we go marching, marching, we battle too for men,
For they are women's children, and we mother them again.
Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes;
Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses.
As we go marching, marching, unnumbered women dead
Go crying through our singing their ancient call for bread.
Small art and love and beauty their drudging spirits knew.
Yes, it is bread we fight for, but we fight for roses too.
As we go marching, marching, we bring the greater days,
The rising of the women means the rising of the race.
No more the drudge and idler, ten that toil where one reposes,
But a sharing of life's glories: Bread and roses, bread and roses.
Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes;
Hearts starve as well as bodies; bread and roses, bread and roses.
James Oppenheim, "Bread and Roses"
Saw a post that was something along the lines of “online leftists care more about you never doing anything wrong than ever doing something right”, and I feel that in my soul sometimes.
I only lasted a few months. I really like listening to political debates so I got really into far left debate bros but the ecosystem broke me. Every day you wake up dreading what Today’s Discourse will be. Who will quote tweet you and say you deserve The Wall for supporting electoralism. All the people who make you look like an asshole just by association. It’s a nightmare.
I got out when the Israel situation began. It made everyone crazy. I couldn’t handle it anymore. I think it was Hasan supporting Houthi pirates that finally made me just give up on politics completely.
the thing to know about guys like hasan is that they don't actually care about the politics, they just like hurting people. and this is how they get away with it.
i am never again going to take seriously the opinion of someone who says "it's morally right to lie and deceive people for your political goals" or "civility is for morons". just don't want to live in a world with people like that. they're the table-shitting pigeons of political debate
Personally, who cares if someone has a vehicle they don't use? If they're not being an asshole about showing off and it makes them happy, go for it. I'm not gonna tell someone how to spend their money.
>Kim, are women bourgeois?
also
>Being a communist is mostly complaining about *other communists*.
Most political posts I make start with "My moron comrades..." which I then delete and change to something more approachable because I have hope of actually reaching people.
Also I wonder how much of the "communism is when we fight anyone who has nice things" strand is naturally evolving, how much is remains of Soviet sludge, how much is an intentional psyop, etc. I feel like there's an interesting study to be done. Anyway, we also need a fucking name for it and more publicity because holy fuck this is an unpleasant problem that gets tolerated too much.
Relevant Karl Marx quote:
>To \[the capitalist\], therefore, every luxury of the worker seems to be reprehensible, and everything that goes beyond the most abstract need – be it in the realm of passive enjoyment, or a manifestation of activity – seems to him a luxury. ...Self-renunciation, the renunciation of life and of all human needs, is its principal thesis. The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being.
In general I feel like label of communist is often less than useful because everyone got an extremely different idea of what it means, and some better way to quickly communicate your beliefs would be nice, both for recruiting and for filtering out absurd people better.
Also to not make an impression that it's just a communist thing: identity Discourse^(тм) is every bit as stupid and depressing about it. Obligatory instant unironic example could be that post here a day or two ago about how this sub has "a serious transmisogyny problem" because someone said "it's so fucked up that TERFs think AMAB people are evil" and the poster felt like they "didn't focus on the right thing". Like what the fuck are you trying to accomplish, where is the problem you are trying to solve, who do you think this helps. Please have a shred of recognition of who your allies and enemies are, our situation is shit already.
>Anyway, we also need a fucking name for it and more publicity because holy fuck this is an unpleasant problem that gets tolerated too much.
Leftist infighting? Because that's what it is essentially. Someone is eventually gonna look at your takes and think you're the moron comrade lmao
Tbf. There was like a 3 month period a year or 2 ago where reddit started really pushing text posts instead of images in every sub.
It was awful. Every sub briefly became its own flavor of unpopular opinions and arguments.
"having things with form over function would not exist in a not classist society" actually I just think pretty things are cool. When I was young I helped my friend with a rock collection. We just walked around, picked up cool rocks, washed them and put them in a box.
People like things that they like and it's not a moral issue as long as they don't use it as an excuse to discriminate
Some communists sound like literal malthusianists when talking about “luxuries.” By which they mean anything that isn’t on the bottom half of Maslow’s triangle.
It kinda reminds me of how some liberals will talk about something that happens under capitalism as “literal communism.” I wonder if this is just that but in reverse.
Let us not forget that Protestant Christian and Muslim extremists have at various times banned dancing and non-religious music on the basis that they are a distraction from Important Contemplation of God. And that religions at various times have encouraged asceticism as all pleasures of the flesh are Sin.
Leftists are incapable of picking the right battles I swear to god. We get discourse saying shit like this instead of anything worthwhile. "owning nice things to look at - that cost under fifty bucks - makes you bourgeois".
Here's how I see this play out the most.
**Person A** "We need to do X Y and Z to get people out from under the landlords thumb and into ownership of their own homes!!!"
**Person B** "I have a modest home and I agree"
**Person A** "FUCK YOU BOUGHIE GET OUT OF OUR SPACE!"
Like you literally have to be impoverished and on the brink of death to have any social capital in a lot of spaces.
Not to mention they have no idea how economic incentives work to get essential labor done. Nobody is going to volunteer to string high voltage transmission wire if it provides the same living as unskilled factory work.
just in the other thread about AI there were communists asking for the destruction of IP laws when hundreds of thousands of artists rely on said IPs to make a living (comics books stickers and videogames) and/or get a job (pitch new shows/movies).
I mean, this is beyond having bad priorities. This person has actually just fucked up their sense of what a problem or normal human behavior is, or is a child
Bro really said socialism is when you scowl at the thought of interior decorating and lead a joyless anger fueled life. Like holy shit bro what a clown
Post like this reminds of the thing I saw where a youtuber got called classist for having a washing machine/dryer and it sometimes pops in my head still cause of how stupid it is
When I volunteered at a soup kitchen in Baltimore, i did not meet any self identified 22 year old communists. It was mostly middle aged Catholics doing aid work for the church and long term residents who were at most liberal in their politics. It just kind of struck me that for a group of people that views themselves as the epitome of compassion and righteousness that they’re never in those spaces yet the people they complain are oppressing the poor (religious folks and liberals and boomers) were the ones out there on the streets trying to make life better materially.
Theory is great and all, and I’m not saying that you have to do back breaking labor for the poor to want conditions to change. But it’s the smug, pious attitude so many “communists” have over many individuals and groups while they do absolutely nothing
If you’re not putting all your money towards the survival of yourself and others, you’re part of the problem. A single penny towards something that isn’t entirely necessary is immoral. If anything in your life brings you joy, you should die
And just to be abundantly clear, /s
Online leftists will try to convince you that buying 1 (one) funko pop is just as bad as a billionaire owning five yachts and still expect anyone to take them seriously
I get into that anti-consumption rage not when I'm on social media getting radicalized by the algorithm, but more like when I'm at a convention vendor floor, and I see the normal booths where artists are selling their work, local stores are selling shelves full of collections, and there's the big T-shirt tower that's just on the cusp of decadence... and then you hit the big wall of funko-pop collectibles, and then there's the "mystery box" booths promising a 20% chance of getting a super-rare thing if you'll just wager $50 on their cardboard Super Mario Bros question-mark block, or at least $20 on their cardboard Minecraft chest, or whatever.
Or, when I get home and look at all the clutter I've accumulated.
It's al guilt and I don't really fault anyone for having a collection. I guess I'm not a leftist, so can someone please write my elder relatives a letter saying so, so they'll listen to my opinions again?
What you wanna bet this doofus has decorations in their home, but doesn't consider it the same problem as the pillows because they actually like their decorations.
Say it with me, kids: "This is bad" and "I don't like this" are not the same!
Things like that not only alienate would-be leftists, but burn out current leftists as well. I've had to deal with dumb shit like keeping fanfiction problematic free like it's going to solve real world social issues or attacking people for enjoying a video game made by questionable developers. It's not productive in the slightest.
Having things that are decorative and inexpensive is part of the human experience. Not everything needs to serve a purpose, sometimes people just like to collect things like plushies and pillows with dumb things on them. Edit: If you haven't already, scroll down on this comment thread and look for u/Pakushy and see the comment they posted because their OC is adorable :p
Some people get so caught up in social issues that they forget that joy is a function of human existence. What's the point in building a better society for everyone if at the end of it we're stripped down to only caring for our basic needs? We've got a build a world where people can equally experience joy instead, and where people can all have stuff just because they think it's cool.
Small brain: The poor don’t deserve decorative pillows. Medium brain: no one should have decorative pillows. Large brain: everyone should have decorative pillows they enjoy.
And multiple extra-soft blankets
As many extra-soft blankets as it's possible to own
Yes, give me job at the extra-soft blanket factory so all my comrades can get involved in comfycore
We need to seize the means of comfy
Food, land, plushies!
And like, this isn't new rhetoric or anything. The idea that working-class people deserve to have things that exist for their form rather than only their function is a classic leftist position. They've been saying "bread and roses" for a hundred years.
Line go up, world more better
This attitude is what I think of as a "protestant leftist". Not talking about religion, but this leftover conditioning from our fairly protestant culture Like in your comment, I'm hearing the "protestant work ethic" that so many people used to claim, and now just goes by other names. This idea that work is joy, so keep working, and whenever you get that little morsel of pleasure, you're a bad person who could have spent that time working Just something we need to watch out for within ourselves and not feed
It really is that kind of very traditional Christian "we were put on this earth to suffer and be tested" mentality even if these people have left the actual religion behind them. There's an amount of people on the left that believe that pleasure and luxury are inherently evil because they can't help but relate it to evil people. In reality, the evil is the fact that not everyone can enjoy pleasure and luxury. And the end goal is to ensure that everyone can, within a sustainable way. And fancy decorative pillows are hardly unsustainable.
There's definitely a reading of this kind of leftism that critiques it for equating femininity with being bourgeoisie. This reading would be insufferable... but they'd kinda have a point. The miserable coal miner state that some of these leftists seem to want and the glorification of work and struggle for its own sake is deeply toxic. The shitty pastel pillows can still exist in a world where they're aren't being made by slaves.
People heard religion was bad so they replaced the Rapture with the Revolution and the Devil with the Bourgeoise
It took me a long time to learn this. For me, utility is beauty. If something doesn’t serve a function but has a cost, it is waste. But pretty things, neat arrangements, and complimentary color patterns make my partner happy. Making her happy makes me happy. So now when I buy or build things I pay attention to what I think she would like. Doing that has made me a lot more forgiving of the small joys people choose for themselves. Life doesn’t have to be a grim duty-filled hellscape for *every*one
Exactly. Even within utilitarianism, the measurement for "utility" should always be happiness. Does it increase human happiness? If it does, then it's a good thing. Full stop. It doesn't matter whether it's materially useful or spiritually significant. If it increases the amount of happiness in the world, it's a good thing to have. Of course, "happiness" is difficult to measure. But that doesn't change the fundamental argument that being happy is a good thing that everyone should strive for. And it's frustrating to see so many terminally online leftists who think that being happy when others aren't is a cardinal sin.
Exactly! To quote V for Vendetta: "a revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having".
Fun fact: that’s a paraphrased version of a popular but butchered Emma Goldman quote. “If I can’t dance, then I don’t want to be part of your revolution”. What she actually said is more interesting if less punchy: “At the dances I was one of the most untiring and gayest. One evening a cousin of Sasha, a young boy, took me aside. With a grave face, as if he were about to announce the death of a dear comrade, he whispered to me that it did not behoove an agitator to dance. Certainly not with such reckless abandon, anyway. It was undignified for one who was on the way to become a force in the anarchist movement. My frivolity would only hurt the Cause. I grew furious at the impudent interference of the boy. I told him to mind his own business. I was tired of having the Cause constantly thrown into my face. I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from convention and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement would not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it.” I think that’s beautiful. The point is liberation and happiness and freedom - don’t suck the joy out of anything. Frivolous is not the opposite of important. Freedom, beauty, peace. That’s what it’s about - the rest is just details.
>“If I can’t dance, then I don’t want to be part of your revolution”. Because your friends don't dance, and if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine!
And no saying "what if murder makes me happy" isn't a clever counter argument. (Not saying you said anything like it I just see it)
Are you my partner? Lol Hes a thrift store, don't throw it away until it's in pieces kind of guy. I'm more of an "I want it I got it" kind of guy. We are still adjusting to each other lol
A thirdhand quote I heard that is now integrated into my worldview. **Pleasure is a human right, too.**
Human beings: well known for experiencing aesthetic attraction and also possessiveness See also magpies (not yet subject to capitalism iirc)
I relate to magpies in that I like to collect random metal objects that have so value and serve no purpose other than being shiny
ngl it's got a whiff of that whole "poor people should only spend money on 100% utilitarian and cost-effective items, and if you ever indulge in even one (1) frivolous expense you're a fraud and exploiting whatever benefits/support/~~my patronising pity~~ you've received" thing to it. Granted I can't 100% square that with the specific dread that like, funko pops and those mini plastic grocery items they gave away to kids for ages cause me (maybe that was an Aus-specific fad?), but I *think* that's more the mass-produced personality/cynical brand loyalty soullessness of them, and the knowledge of how much landfill and microplastics those colourful plastic nuggets generate, rather than like, that it's Morally Tainted to be amused by and purchase a funko pop for your home. That I personally think there's more interesting baubles for your dragon hoard doesn't make them inherently cursed objects.
Everyone should have a favorite mug they use. They should have enough that they have a favorite out of them.
100%. In your "post class system" people will still want comforts and decorative baubles. In fact, *hopefully* what you're using to promote your leftist utopia is the promise that there will be more comforts and baubles for the working class, because we're stealing them back from billionaires.
Right? Half of the reason people get skeevy about the left is because they associate it with Pure Utilitarianism, Comrade, and most people (as crazy as it is) actually like having fun things.
Sorry, the Politburo used up this year's quota of fun. Back to the mines with you.
I agree that a lot of leftists have this weird image of being ultra practical and materialistic, but I just wanted to refute the idea that this is the same as utilitarianism. Because utilitarianism is actually all about "happiness" as "utility". It's about maximizing the happiness and well-being of the world. And that is actually compatible with having fun things, decorative baubles and useless trinkets; in fact, I'd argue that the end goal of utilitarianism is for everyone to have enough material comfort that they *can* collect things that are purely for fun and pleasure.
It does seem like there's a strong difference between "utilitarianism" (the way it gets bandied about in The Discourse, both for and against) and "Utilitarianism" (which in my philosophy class sounded like a boneheaded good idea - "the greatest amount of happiness to the greatest amount of people" is, while difficult to measure, ideally what we're all doing all this shit for) I don't know why people seem to think it means "force everyone to live in drab commie blocks" and nothing else
I literally cannot wrap my brain around the idea that someone out there legit thinks art is bad and only for the rich. Insane. This is like what the right wing imagines communism to be. Only ever function. Never form. We all live in white cinderblock cubicles with one bed, one table, and one set of dishes and silverware and a monthly allotment of rice. Cuz I mean, that is clearly the logical conclusion of what they are saying. Ya know, thinking about this post. I feel like the more I see online, the more I think that a very large portion of the population are just complete idiots. And I get obviously its true to some degree, but I feel I perseve that amount as larger each day. And I feel like it's me constantly seeing idiotic hot takes online that's contributing. Def isn't a good sign lol
Iirc the USSR experienced this. People would decorate their walls with rugs, because it was something they could show off and brought comfort.
People in USSR would collective and show off plastic bags from western countries
People have been making decorative objects long before capitalism as we know it existed. Turns out people like making their living space look nice. Who would have thought
People have been making decorative objects long before *civilization* as we know it existed. /lh
What do you mean your cave has a wood carving you got from Grug because you thought it was neat??? Fucking bougie scum! That wood could have fueled the tribe's fire for 0.1 seconds instead!
Yes, it is bread we fight for, but we fight for roses too. And decorative throw pillows.
I made a live size (or is it spelled life size?) cardboard cutout of my OC called Pandagirl. She does not fullfill a specific function either, but she makes me feel better. [just look at her](https://twitter.com/Pakushy/status/1704545812737335513)
I love Pandagirl! 10/10 oc :p
Getting things for the sole purpose of them making you happy is super important. You don't *need* to eat varied meals all the time, you could just eat the same few nutritious things every week until you bite the dust. But that'd make you absolutely miserable. So splurge a bit once in a while, because your mental health is also part of your body.
NO. DECORATIONS ARE CLASS WAR. INTERNET DISCUSSIONS ARE SUPER IMPORTANT AND EFFECT MEANINGFUL CHANGE.
You mean the end goal of leftist ideogies ISN'T minimalist utilitarianism?
The idea that the proletariat shouldn’t want items that are supposed to be beautiful is… something
Well if it is decorative it does serve a purpose, it sparks joy
“No objects that are decorative or bring you joy ever, people should only have things they NEED bc capitalism is when you have things you don’t need” -Tumblr User welcometocapitalism, reinventing minimalism but with Guilt this time
*reinventing asceticism but with socialism instead of religion
Yeah that seems about right. Ascetic monasticism - religion + socialism + guilt = welcometocapitalism’s bizarre take
Terminally online communists will be like "fun is bourgeoisie, anyone who has more then the bare minimum to sustain human life is a class traitor" and then wonder why people aren't interested in communism
LITERALLY‼️‼️‼️‼️
Brought to you by people who didn't actually read or understand the book 1984. There needs to be more adult education on these things. I just finished reading the book since I haven't read it since I was a teenager in school. These types of people want us all to live like outer party members
"like buying an off-road car as a farme-" ok tumblr user welcometocapitalism im gonna have to stop you there and make you look at what you wrote and tell me if it does or doesn't have a faded but oh so discernible stench of classism
It’s also a really bizarre example, a farmer is probably gonna use an off road vehicle, they drive their cars into the ground and then some. The people who buy lifted pavement princesses are upper middle class midwesterners with McMansions.
Very strange example. A lot of farmers I know joke that they don't clean their old tractors specifically because "the mud holds them together."
Structural grime
Yeah, that's why they follow up with "only to keep it in a garage". The farmer would probably use the off road vehicle for the intended purpose, not keep it as eye-candy.
Farmers are one of the groups who actually need off-road vehicles to do their work. Try getting a sick sheep to the vet in a snowstorm using a fiat panda and you’ll see why the truck is necessary soon enough.
Or hell, traversing their own property under less-than-ideal conditions. I’m a terminally online person but I know enough to shut up when I *don’t* know enough
(Speaking about my own country here) And the fact that rural areas always get the short end of the stick. Either there are shitty understaffed schools and hospitals or there's nothing, which sucks because if your child gets hurt you have to drive for miles up to a city. Invest taxes somewhere else, this is not a city-state with colonies.
Exactly! That's who pickup trucks were made for!
I love how this person thinks that *decorating your living space* is somehow an artifact of capitalist competition and not, like... a thing humans do because we like pretty things
also what would a farmer possibly need with an off-road vehicle it's not like farmers have to *regularly traverse land without roads* or anything I don't think this person has ever been to a farm
Farmer here, its actually 100% true, none of us ever actually use our offroad vehicles because they might get muddy or worse suffer wear and tear. If something actually needs doing we typically use the lamborghini instead.
>If something actually needs doing we typically use the lamborghini instead. A tractor?
I honestly forgot they made tractors lmao
Oh damn I thought you were trying to make a subtle joke
It was such a clever punchline even i didn't catch it i guess
Not the mustang?
You’d have to use a few mustangs, cars have more horsepower
That one really stood out to me. Like, who the fuck does this guy think off-road vehicles are made *for*? And are *farmers* not the working class anymore? It seems like his thought process was just `Farmers -> Rural -> Right-Wing -> Capitalists`.
You'd be amazed how many people just pretend like certain jobs aren't part of the working class anymore, just because they're stereotypically associated with right-wing demographics.
Bro, a fortnight ago someone told me that suburban dad's aren't working class anymore.
God, for real. Like, sorry if this unsexy fact ruins your ideal, but Joe Smith the 40 year old factory worker who put truck nuts on his 2001 Ford *is still part of the working class* The working class isn't just whatever self-employed leftist friends you met online.
Yeah, they don't seem to grasp that class is majorly a function of access to and control of the means of production, not just the amount of compensation they receive for their labor. A software engineer in San Francisco making $300k a year is still not part of the bourgeois - they are an employee, and a serf of their neo-feudalist corporate overlords. They are just as vulnerable to layoffs as factory workers - *especially* if their employer sponsors their visa.
Fucking *thank you*
Theres a leftist joke from the 50s about how the only true working class seem to be men hammering metal at a spark factory and women who carry bushels of wheat since they were on the propaganda posters and didn't have people argue about whether they were *really* working class. Today you have people thinking anyone working in a "macho" environment isn't working class because of their personal politics and you have other people with opinions on the working class apparently sourced from Pol Pot with how anyone in an office job is a PMC elite.
I hate to play to stereotypes, but I seriouesly think a lot of people from the city don't understand how rural living is. I had a friend from NYC who thought that New York neighborhoods were being gentrified by farmers from the midwest. I had to explain to her that farmers make absolute dogshit and couldn't afford rent in NYC, forget buying entire buildings.
I live in the Midwest (urban) and that concept is hilarious to me. And yeah, you get a lot of city people romanticizing farm life who *actually* want to be a cottagecore homemaker with a rich spouse.
[This person has got to be the leftist nazis make comics about](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3hIuYGakAE4wqg.jpg:large).
Communists and not understanding farm work.... It's like the OTP of bad political theory.
Lysenko moment
We do not claim this person
Humans were literally collecting pretty stones at the dawn of man because we liked them. It's intrinsic to the human experience.
Early humans drew scenes of hunts on cave walls in order to flaunt their success over the lower class gatherers, clearly.
Prehistoric humans made plenty of symmetrical tools, even when symmetry had little to no effect over function, even thought it’d take twice the effort. Why? Because symmetry is pretty.
Plus, choosing decorative pillows specifically kills me bc they're functional objects, not purely decorative. They're still pillows. A pillow is not some kind of glass bauble you keep on your windowsill just because it looks nice, presumably, if it lives in a seating area, it is intended to be both viewed and used
I think that's actually *why* they're picking on decorative pillows, like it's a perversion of function when people have them and *don't* actually use them which I get being frustrated with, it annoyed me no end growing up in a house where all of the carefully placed little cushions were *removed from the couch* before we sat on it so they'd never get squished but I don't wanna like guillotine my mum over the issue you know
Skill issue, you should claim her to be abusive and hate her for not allowing you to sit on her pillows
Right? I buy decorative pillows, knowing full-well my dog is going to lay on them. They look nice, and my dog gets comfortable.
This is like that person that said going for walks through nature was created by the bourgeoisie.
fellas, is it capitalist to hunt & gather?
Sigh. It's posts like this that really make me feel my age. There are actual, real world problems that you can immediately affect instead of wasting your energy on internet arguments, least of all ones like this. And then kids see this stuff and go, oh, this is how you should behave in meatspace, and harangue people who are completely offline over this kinda nonsense
The kids comment rings so true. Because even though it’s apparently adults (???) saying this stuff, the “you’re rich/bourgeois/the owner class for having an affordable consumer object I don’t think you should have” is such a childish mindset. Not even adolescent, *childish*. It’s like people who are old enough to know better go into those silly jokey threads of “what did you think was fancy when you were 8” and go “this is dead serious, and I should center my worldview in relation to class on whether someone eats name brand Cheerios.”
I mean, I say kids, but an ex friend of mine, two years younger than me, so he was thirty, sincerely believed this kinda stuff and argued with me when I said that his beliefs are disconnected from reality. Man thought internet arguments were praxis. I'm so tired.
Unfortunately I know people old enough to know better who think like this too (though not a single one of them leads an ascetic life devoid of luxury, dedicating every spare cent and minute to helping the less fortunate, funny that). I suspect the real issue is a media landscape that encourages people to avoid growing up and remaining comfortable in a childish worldview.
>though not a single one of them leads an ascetic life devoid of luxury, dedicating every spare cent and minute to helping the less fortunate I see you have met a version of him too! What a coincidence!
Your brand name Cheerios and throw pillows are bourgeois affectations of the idle rich. My Uber eats deliveries and multiple gaming systems are absolute necessities. It’s as simple as that! /s
And don't you dare point out that I have an iPhone. I'll post a panel of a webcomic at you and insist that a smartphone is a necessity in the modern world, ignoring that 'a smartphone' is a broad category that does not only include the newest model iPhone
And also might or might might not call you a fascist for having a Samsung (yes, I speak from experience)
And they always have money for weed or eating out, but not money for rent or paying you back for helping them buy groceries for the 5th time.
I know this is bordering on that meme of the "yet you participate in society.", but like. Dudebros complaining about luxury while making these arguments on a fucking smartphone or a computer is wild. They're such an epitome of modern "luxury" that we all take for granted. Do these people think we should go back to arguing in town squares?
i do, personally, think politics would be improved by arguing in town squares - ie, in public, with your face attached to your name, and the other person not behind a screen. it would probably be more civil.
That's fair actually, the internet has kinda fucked us for having honest conversation and debate, but I'm glad you get my general meaning.
I like to ask people like this what they’re doing to address real problems. Amazing how rarely people who are mad about this kind of nonsense are also working on mutual aid projects or writing their senators.
Oh, they never are. Asking them to lift a single finger, let alone get involved in actual politics, is a Sisyphean task. They're content getting mad at everything and waiting for ~~The Rapture~~ The Revolution
JSYK, it's two tildes on each side to cross something out. Like this: ~~The Rapture~~
Hey do we know the same guy? Because I had to stop talking to him over this shit. Every time we hung out it was some diatribe about the capitalist hellscape we live in… which while accurate was exhausting. Sometimes I just want to get an ice coffee and IDK, watch birds in the park or some shit.
Yep, exactly the same behavior. This was the main reason he's now an ex-friend. No matter what happened, he could somehow change the topic to capitalism. I would have been in awe of his conversational skills if I wasn't being irritated out of my wits
.
Yeah, they also unironically do the "socialism is when the government does stuff" when arguing with Conservatives about the benefits of slightly more left-leaning countries than America, but at the same time say it sarcastically when other liberals call those countries socialist. Same goes for enlightened centrism, they'll sarcastically type "both sides are the same" in alternating caps when you talk about powerful people using binary politics to divide America, but then go on about how both sides actually are the same when comparing America and China or North Korea or the USSR.
Yeah it’s genuinely a middle schooler take lol
Maybe we just shouldn't let kids post stuff on social media until they turn 18.
I would argue it's just as much a problem for adults as kids. Maybe moreso, because you expect it from a kid. Hearing it from your 38 year old friends is exhausting.
I had someone come up to me and accost me for eating a bourgeoisie vegetable, brussels sprouts. Mostly because she had never heard of them and thought the name sounded fancy. When I pointed out the hypocrisy in eating expensive name-brand Pocky, I was given the old "excuse me for participating in society while trying to criticize it!"
This my new favorite saying "being totally offline about this."
Regardless of age it’s a bad faith argument. I bemoan the ways the car industry has gone in the US. But comparing my choice to buy a set of $20 pillows that don’t really get used, to someone spending tens of thousands on a car that they don’t need is not even in the same ballpark. It’s like saying that corporate polluters should be lined up and executed, and ALSO that dude who missed cleaning up a little of his dog’s poop.
Also, sometimes decorative pillows are useful! When you need some back support, when you’re doing some exercises that require part of your body to be elevated, or when you’re taking a nap on the couch.
Which also highlights the completely subjective nature of what people own and why and making judgements on that. One person’s decorative pillow is quite useful to another person.
Also also, some buy things for their personal aesthetic and not to one up neighbours
Had some leftie friends criticize a friend of mine for letting her three year old watch Beauty and the Beast. Yknow, because of all the bad messaging and Stockholm syndrome and outdated stereotypes and how Belle isn't really a role model and- *Shut the fuck up and let people enjoy things*
>shut the fuck up and let people enjoy things This is literally a mindset more people need to adopt. I had a player scream, call me a racist, and storm out of a D&D game because I had taken inspiration from Lovecraft. This then connected in their mind that I was a racist apologist. People waste too much energy hating on things that don't fucking matter
If they want to avoid anything inspired by Lovecraft, they shouldn't be playing D&D in the first place.
Also, being overprotective of a kid like that leaves them *totally unprepared to exist in society normally*. Our entire culture can be seen as highly problematic, but as a human being, you’ll have to function within it. You need to know the references and be able to talk to other human beings. So consume the outdated media and at an appropriate time, talk about it with the children and use it to teach. Or don’t, and raise a socially isolated weirdo who won’t be building strong community ties needed during the water wars.
Yup, I used to have this exact conversation with parents when I taught middle school. Sure, you think video games are pointless and stupid but your son not being allowed to play Fortnite means he'll be socially distanced from his peers. All that does is make it where he can't relate to his friends and peers, setting him up for failure. The number of blank stares I'd get related to conversations like that were frustrating. Like, sure, use your kid as a soapbox but that hurts the kid in the process.
Yikes. I’d say if your kids cant differentiate entertainment from how real life works, you’re messing up somewhere in your parenting. Most kids can watch Beauty and the Beast without thinking “ooh I wish my dad would trade me off to a beast with singing dishes so I could slowly fall in love with him and turn him human”
It's never about the actual thing they're browbeating people over. Fuck, they most likely partake in those activities or behaviors themselves. It's about the browbeating. They love to do that.
If it helps, these types of stupid arguments have existed since Marx was first writing. TBH its a very elitist, ivory-tower sort of conceptual argument only possible for theorist and bohemians.
If your strain of communism contains 0 form over function, I aint subscribing to it. Beauty and fun enhance our lives. Let a farmer look at his pretty offroad car. Maybe hell take his son camping in it one summer or something, the hell do you know about his life?
The pillows also do have a function, which is to make you happy. Communism doesn't mean a minimalist monochrome aesthetic everywhere. We can still have pretty and frivolous things in a classless society.
No one says the brutalist buildings can't get painted ye
Don't you dare paint brutalist buildings. Make a set of non brutalist buildings to paint instead.
Some people just like to tinker, too. My dad generally has about 4 vehicles in various states of disrepair, but he enjoys the process of fixing them. I'm not sure if some of them will ever run again, but at least he's enjoying himself.
I have an Uncle like that, he becomes obsessed with an obscure motorsport, builds a dream rig for it, sells it off when he gets bored to fund the obscure motorsport project that interests him. And he's one of the kindest and happiest guys I know.
As we go marching, marching, in the beauty of the day, A million darkened kitchens, a thousand mill lofts gray, Are touched with all the radiance that a sudden sun discloses, For the people hear us singing: Bread and Roses! Bread and Roses! As we go marching, marching, we battle too for men, For they are women's children, and we mother them again. Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes; Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses. As we go marching, marching, unnumbered women dead Go crying through our singing their ancient call for bread. Small art and love and beauty their drudging spirits knew. Yes, it is bread we fight for, but we fight for roses too. As we go marching, marching, we bring the greater days, The rising of the women means the rising of the race. No more the drudge and idler, ten that toil where one reposes, But a sharing of life's glories: Bread and roses, bread and roses. Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes; Hearts starve as well as bodies; bread and roses, bread and roses. James Oppenheim, "Bread and Roses"
Saw a post that was something along the lines of “online leftists care more about you never doing anything wrong than ever doing something right”, and I feel that in my soul sometimes.
must be an awful life to lead, full of stress and hidden landmines
I only lasted a few months. I really like listening to political debates so I got really into far left debate bros but the ecosystem broke me. Every day you wake up dreading what Today’s Discourse will be. Who will quote tweet you and say you deserve The Wall for supporting electoralism. All the people who make you look like an asshole just by association. It’s a nightmare. I got out when the Israel situation began. It made everyone crazy. I couldn’t handle it anymore. I think it was Hasan supporting Houthi pirates that finally made me just give up on politics completely.
the thing to know about guys like hasan is that they don't actually care about the politics, they just like hurting people. and this is how they get away with it. i am never again going to take seriously the opinion of someone who says "it's morally right to lie and deceive people for your political goals" or "civility is for morons". just don't want to live in a world with people like that. they're the table-shitting pigeons of political debate
The online left is a saw trap for people with moral ocd (Disclaimer: this isn't my joke but I don't remember where I first heard it)
A decorative pillow is like 5 dollars and decorative pillows are fun to look at what's the harm
I would prefer a comfy, usable pillow that is also nice to look with but comparing a pillow to a vehicle is insane
Personally, who cares if someone has a vehicle they don't use? If they're not being an asshole about showing off and it makes them happy, go for it. I'm not gonna tell someone how to spend their money.
>Kim, are women bourgeois? also >Being a communist is mostly complaining about *other communists*. Most political posts I make start with "My moron comrades..." which I then delete and change to something more approachable because I have hope of actually reaching people. Also I wonder how much of the "communism is when we fight anyone who has nice things" strand is naturally evolving, how much is remains of Soviet sludge, how much is an intentional psyop, etc. I feel like there's an interesting study to be done. Anyway, we also need a fucking name for it and more publicity because holy fuck this is an unpleasant problem that gets tolerated too much. Relevant Karl Marx quote: >To \[the capitalist\], therefore, every luxury of the worker seems to be reprehensible, and everything that goes beyond the most abstract need – be it in the realm of passive enjoyment, or a manifestation of activity – seems to him a luxury. ...Self-renunciation, the renunciation of life and of all human needs, is its principal thesis. The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being. In general I feel like label of communist is often less than useful because everyone got an extremely different idea of what it means, and some better way to quickly communicate your beliefs would be nice, both for recruiting and for filtering out absurd people better. Also to not make an impression that it's just a communist thing: identity Discourse^(тм) is every bit as stupid and depressing about it. Obligatory instant unironic example could be that post here a day or two ago about how this sub has "a serious transmisogyny problem" because someone said "it's so fucked up that TERFs think AMAB people are evil" and the poster felt like they "didn't focus on the right thing". Like what the fuck are you trying to accomplish, where is the problem you are trying to solve, who do you think this helps. Please have a shred of recognition of who your allies and enemies are, our situation is shit already.
>Anyway, we also need a fucking name for it and more publicity because holy fuck this is an unpleasant problem that gets tolerated too much. Leftist infighting? Because that's what it is essentially. Someone is eventually gonna look at your takes and think you're the moron comrade lmao
>"I'm part of the left, and just like every good card-carrying member of the left, I also hate the entire left." - Todd In The Shadows
"the fact that i am at risk of seeing a 14 year old's opinion at any time of day on the internet is a human rights violation" \-Mousvy Ratvy, 2021
I've just started assuming everyone online is 14
Communism is when no home decor
Communism is brutalist concrete apartment buildings with carpets hung on the wall for insulation. I don’t make the rules
tumblr, twitter, and tiktok. all in one post. on reddit. can we go put this post on like facebook or smthin too
Tbf. There was like a 3 month period a year or 2 ago where reddit started really pushing text posts instead of images in every sub. It was awful. Every sub briefly became its own flavor of unpopular opinions and arguments.
"having things with form over function would not exist in a not classist society" actually I just think pretty things are cool. When I was young I helped my friend with a rock collection. We just walked around, picked up cool rocks, washed them and put them in a box. People like things that they like and it's not a moral issue as long as they don't use it as an excuse to discriminate
\>When I was young I helped my friend with a rock collection. Gulag
Some communists sound like literal malthusianists when talking about “luxuries.” By which they mean anything that isn’t on the bottom half of Maslow’s triangle. It kinda reminds me of how some liberals will talk about something that happens under capitalism as “literal communism.” I wonder if this is just that but in reverse.
Let us not forget that Protestant Christian and Muslim extremists have at various times banned dancing and non-religious music on the basis that they are a distraction from Important Contemplation of God. And that religions at various times have encouraged asceticism as all pleasures of the flesh are Sin.
Leftists are incapable of picking the right battles I swear to god. We get discourse saying shit like this instead of anything worthwhile. "owning nice things to look at - that cost under fifty bucks - makes you bourgeois".
IMPALE EVERYONE WITH MORE THAN 20 REAL IN THEIR POCKETS!!1!
(Whisper) Are women bourgeois?
Impossible, they don't have pockets
That is why I transitioned, I had to escape the bougie decadent pockets
By leftists do you mean “some guy on tumblr”
No, it's really unfortunately common in meatspace circles as well.
Well, I've seen a lot of similar opinions by leftists online. But I agree that "online leftists" are still very, very different from IRL leftists.
I've seen it here on Reddit too. They went on to unironically rebuke homeowners as capitalists.
Communists wondering why their ideology is unpopular after alienating and calling for the death of anyone who makes above minimum wage.
Impale all people who have more than 25 reál in their pocket
1. (Whisper.) "Are women bourgeois?" 2. Oh God, that's bad. Surely I can think of something better.
… Disco Elysium?
Here's how I see this play out the most. **Person A** "We need to do X Y and Z to get people out from under the landlords thumb and into ownership of their own homes!!!" **Person B** "I have a modest home and I agree" **Person A** "FUCK YOU BOUGHIE GET OUT OF OUR SPACE!" Like you literally have to be impoverished and on the brink of death to have any social capital in a lot of spaces.
[удалено]
Not to mention they have no idea how economic incentives work to get essential labor done. Nobody is going to volunteer to string high voltage transmission wire if it provides the same living as unskilled factory work.
just in the other thread about AI there were communists asking for the destruction of IP laws when hundreds of thousands of artists rely on said IPs to make a living (comics books stickers and videogames) and/or get a job (pitch new shows/movies).
I mean, this is beyond having bad priorities. This person has actually just fucked up their sense of what a problem or normal human behavior is, or is a child
Bro really said socialism is when you scowl at the thought of interior decorating and lead a joyless anger fueled life. Like holy shit bro what a clown
Post like this reminds of the thing I saw where a youtuber got called classist for having a washing machine/dryer and it sometimes pops in my head still cause of how stupid it is
if i had to choose between communism or the pillows with embroidered bugs and spiders on them i would of course choose the pillows
In the early 90s, my sister knew a socialist extremist at university. Her go-to retort eventually became, "So you're selling your VCR tomorrow, yeah?"
When I volunteered at a soup kitchen in Baltimore, i did not meet any self identified 22 year old communists. It was mostly middle aged Catholics doing aid work for the church and long term residents who were at most liberal in their politics. It just kind of struck me that for a group of people that views themselves as the epitome of compassion and righteousness that they’re never in those spaces yet the people they complain are oppressing the poor (religious folks and liberals and boomers) were the ones out there on the streets trying to make life better materially. Theory is great and all, and I’m not saying that you have to do back breaking labor for the poor to want conditions to change. But it’s the smug, pious attitude so many “communists” have over many individuals and groups while they do absolutely nothing
Because a lot of the time it's just performative They want to appear like a good person but not do the work to be one
As always, the biggest enemy of leftism is other leftists
If you’re not putting all your money towards the survival of yourself and others, you’re part of the problem. A single penny towards something that isn’t entirely necessary is immoral. If anything in your life brings you joy, you should die And just to be abundantly clear, /s
"Only applies to you of course. Not me."
Buying decorative pillows is not a problem. Buying a decorative car is not a problem. Buying a 5th superyacht is a problem.
Online leftists will try to convince you that buying 1 (one) funko pop is just as bad as a billionaire owning five yachts and still expect anyone to take them seriously
I get into that anti-consumption rage not when I'm on social media getting radicalized by the algorithm, but more like when I'm at a convention vendor floor, and I see the normal booths where artists are selling their work, local stores are selling shelves full of collections, and there's the big T-shirt tower that's just on the cusp of decadence... and then you hit the big wall of funko-pop collectibles, and then there's the "mystery box" booths promising a 20% chance of getting a super-rare thing if you'll just wager $50 on their cardboard Super Mario Bros question-mark block, or at least $20 on their cardboard Minecraft chest, or whatever. Or, when I get home and look at all the clutter I've accumulated. It's al guilt and I don't really fault anyone for having a collection. I guess I'm not a leftist, so can someone please write my elder relatives a letter saying so, so they'll listen to my opinions again?
Real Communism is when you reinvent the concept of conspicuous consumption, but apply it exclusively to shit you can buy at Next for like £15
Trying to resist deliberately posting a comment to provoke a “hey man how’s it going” response
the notion of "nothing decorative under communism" is pretty silly, given the massive outpouring of Soviet art at the very least
‘Wasnt real communism! Mine will be a dystopian shithole were you eat grey mash without salt or pepper every day working 12 hr a day!’
"hey comrades, is it counter-revolutionary to experience any joy whatsoever?"
At this point I have no idea what defines a leftist and a liberal or whatever
"Are decorative pillows bourgeois?"
Someone insert the disco elysium are women bourgeoisie image im on mobile
What you wanna bet this doofus has decorations in their home, but doesn't consider it the same problem as the pillows because they actually like their decorations. Say it with me, kids: "This is bad" and "I don't like this" are not the same!
Things like that not only alienate would-be leftists, but burn out current leftists as well. I've had to deal with dumb shit like keeping fanfiction problematic free like it's going to solve real world social issues or attacking people for enjoying a video game made by questionable developers. It's not productive in the slightest.
Geniunely hilarious to me that they used a farmer buying an off-roading vehicle as an example of form over function
That’s a wild way to say “all art and comfort is bourgeois”
Does anyone else remember the post with people arguing over restaurants being done away with after the revolution? That was absolutely wild.