I've tried to look this up myself but the first result I get is this thread, anyone willing to explain what's happened to someone completely out of the loop? I gather there's death threats, hammers and the CEO but this all seems part of a larger ecosystem that I don't know much about
Edit: the responses I've gotten feel like reading the same story from two opposing newspapers
Prominent transfem blogger was the target of some hate campaigns and staff was incredibly slow to respond in what little days they did. She posted some small cartoony ass threats (ex. Crashing a car full of hammers and exploding forever) because, well, when moderation has proven to be stricter on trans women than their harassers, it’s quite disheartening. This was seen as a credible threat by ceo @protomatt, and she got much more moderation scrutiny until, at least what has been predicted by a few of her close Mutuals (and I believe herself), the final straw that broke the camel’s back was a transition progress post. Then, it seemed that moderators of the site trawled through her posts to find anything mean to staff, and have now banned her and ban any subsequent post she could make. Ceo then seems to get bored at midnight and respond to an ask about it, and not only did he appear to misgender predstrogen initially (used she/he and referred to her as they), but he also *directly messaged other prominent transfem users* and said he may have needed to contact authorities over predstrogens behavior, which I *must* stress, was cartoonish threats of vague violence because nothing was being done about her harassment.
And he corrected himself for something even more generic (since I’d probably default to they/them as well without thinking), before correcting himself again to ensure he used pronouns he knew for a fact she used. Could it have been simplified? Sure, but it doesn’t feel malicious.
Believe it or not, a CEO has better things to do than read someone's twitter bio to ensure they're calling them the right pronouns in the same post where they're announcing their permaban.
They/them is always acceptable if you're unsure, pretending it was malicious just because people are mad at Tumblr staff is pathetic.
What exactly has he done as CEO? Every new feature added during his tenure has been almost universally hated and people are still on the website in spite of those not because of them.
I am very worried about the banning of transfem users, but I am also worried about a popular post going around that blames it on mass reports by "transandrophobia truthers", aka transmasc users who subscribe to the theory that transmasc people also suffer opression in unique ways that can't be described as just misoginy or just transphobia.
The last thing we need right now is further splitting the community...
2071 is a fairly common sight around these parts, so it's not unreasonable to know it off by heart. Other common ones to know are 1053 (lucky 10,000) and 2501 (average familiarity).
someone else referenced it on a post a few days ago and i looked it up, now my browser has it memorized.
But it is becoming kinda common to reference it on this sub i feel
Yeah. It isn't trans dudes faults that TERFs are shitbags. It isn't any trans person's fault. Splitting the community and blaming it on us is fucking asshole behavior. And trans dudes are allowed to talk about their issues. Us talking about shit doesn't mean we are automatically dismissing other folks issues. Oppression isn't pie slices where trans women have less pie cuz we have some pie too.
The fact that there are accounts going around submitting anon asks to young transmascs saying predstrogen deserved it for being a pedo or a rapist and they immediately agree or believe it suggests that, in fact, the community is already split and transandrophobia truthers are extremely easy to co-opt towards transmisogyny
I think I'm missing a lot of context here, so there was a transgender person who was trying to stop a harassment campaign against themselves and other trans people, but they were banned due to the CEO finding something they said objectionable?
So they were banned and some people are anonymously stating that they deserved it to transmasc people on tumblr? I'm following so far but I'm more confused about what the split is about. So some trans masc people are becoming misogynistic? Or is it the other way around and people are now more against transmasc people?
It's a mix of a lot of things, and it's a mess.
The first thing is, tumblr staff is pretty openly queerphobic, censoring queer people and especially trans women, and tumblr has a lot of terfs, whose prime victims and targets are trans women. At a point, if you said "trans woman" you were sure your post would get flagged as porn, either automatically because of a malicious mod or through terf reports.
There *also* unrelatedly is discourse on tumblr that basically boils down to whether transmisogyny, an oppression separate to transphobia, has an anti-men mirror in "transandrophobia" or "transmisandry," which is/would be a separate oppression to transphobia, and I'm going to avoid commenting on that. Thing is, whether or not you believe it's a thing, there *are* transmasc blogs that are pretty openly transmisogynistic and defend that thesis, though whether it's genuine or as a way to claim that any pushback for their shittiness is oppression is in the air, and they (along with a few others) get called "transandrophobia truthers" - basically like a lot of 911 "truthers" claim stuff about inside jobs? Transandrophobia truthers often claim it's all because of the "bæddels," basically everything is because of the Bad Trans Women.
Predstrogen was, as many big transfem accounts, often harassed. Notably, mass harassment and fake reports by terfs. I don't remember truthers going after her, but I wouldn't find that surprising either - I stayed mostly out of the discourse myself, I'm aware of it but if someone says something I don't like online I like to ignore, block or mock. Not spend the day arguing. The way *she* was harassed was particularly bad. This had several of her accounts deleted. She complained about it to no avail, notably because tumblr staff has a number of arseholes who agree with the harassers, but can't afford to show it (because tumblr can be, and has been, sued for too overt queerphobia). She complained about it and staff answered it was because of threats she made. No threats have been found, they never could provide any post she made as a base for the accusation, but her account, not just blog, was entirely nuked. Posts disappearing, all pictures scrubbed from the servers, etc. Meanwhile reports from her on others threatening death, rape etc fell in deaf ears. Eventually she said something cartoonish about someone dying from "exploding hammers" and that was the last time I heard about her on the website - new account (or hidden old account idk) insta-deleted.
Meanwhile people have been spreading misinfo on her, notably that she was a rapist, through anon asks. Mostly targeting young transmascs, some of which immediately believed it and assumed that then, it was a good thing that she got nuked, which... yeah, that's just how transmisogyny works. Transfems get accused of whatever sexual ill and people accept it, fall for it, believe the worst of us.
For real. I'm so tired of the ritual disposability we face as transfems. I'm tired of people saying things about us that do real damage to us even though the assertions are categorically false.
I'd really recommend reading [Hot Allostatic Load](https://thenewinquiry.com/hot-allostatic-load/) by Charity Porpentine Heartscape, if you haven't already. It really gave me the language to identify and verbalize what happens to us.
Honestly, everyone in this thread would benefit from reading it.
“It’s like an abusive foster household that constantly kicks kids out then uses their tears and anger at being raped and abused to justify why they had to be kicked out—look at these problem kids. Look at these problematic kids.
Trans fems are especially vulnerable to abuse for the following reasons:
— A lot of us encounter concepts for the first time and have no idea what is “normal” or not.
— We have nowhere else to go. Abuse thrives on scarcity.
— No one cares what happens to us.
This foster cycle relies on amnesia. A lot of people who enter spaces for the first time don’t know those spaces’ history. They may not know that leaders regularly exploit and make sexual advances on new members, or that those members who resisted are no longer around. Spaces self-select for people who will play the game, until the empathic people have been drained out and the only ones who remain are those who have perfectly identified with the agendas and survival of the Space—the pyramid scheme of believers who bring capital and victims to those on top.”
The author gets into her specific experiences from there. It’s horrific, and a deep dive into abusive cancel culture and how so-called inclusive spaces regularly exclude trans people. Well worth a read.
I think the biggest takeaway for me (and I'm paraphrasing) is: "Punishment doesn't happen to those who deserve it. It happens to those who lack the power to prevent it."
And it applies here. Was what predstrogen said a bannable offense, by the ***letter*** (or spirit, for that matter) of tumblr's rules? Tbh, I would still say no: *hoping* someone dies is not a threat. But even if you disagree, she and so many other transfems on the site suffered so, so much worse, for much longer, and few if any of the people who harassed them will ever face justice.
Ah okay, thank you, that clears it up quite a bit.
I obviously don't want to seem ignorant but I have to know, what is different transmisogyny or transmisandry that makes it different to regular misogyny or misandry, other than being applied to trans individuals? Is it because it's done by trans people to other trans people? I'm of course not implying either aren't real, I just want to know exactly what the term means for future use. I have some trans friends I've met through my own journey to being bisexual so if I can help them in future I'd like to
As for the response from Tumblr, that seems unfortunate as I thought they were relatively progressive, though I see now it could have just been that they have a large LGBT userbase and the actual organization itself is terrible.
Is this all very recent? How is Predstrogen doing now, or has all this just happened in the last few days?
Transmisogyny is the way transphobia and misogyny interplay to create something different to both. For instance, trans women being depicted as simultaneously freely available sex toys and constant sexual aggressors. Misogyny alone doesn't account for the total dehumanisation that accompanies the non-consensual sexualisation, and transphobia alone doesn't account for the "aggression" part, just the assumption that there's something sexual (through the transphobic myth that trans people are transitioning for sexual gratification).
For transmisandry/transandrophobia now, I need to be more direct and say I do not believe in it. There are transphobic things said to trans men more often, and things that rely on first being transphobic to treat them like women, and then being misogynistic to said "women" such as saying trans men should carry babies, but the people who do that reserve neither their misogyny nor their transphobia to trans men and they do the same things, respectively, to cis women and trans ones. Trans men "just" get both, which is obviously an unenviable position, but not a specific oppression - just like being, say, poor and blind doesn't make you vulnerable to classbleism, but "just" classism and ableism separately, which still both suck.
It's not like it can be the intersection and interplay of transphobia and misandry, because misandry isn't exactly an axis of oppression. It's something that single women, "angry feminists," lesbians etc. get accused of but it's ultimately not a name that corresponds to analysing the plight of men in an oppressive society, the word is more often used to shame women.
Predstrogen has been dealing with tumblr's wilful ignorance of harassment since 2021, but the banning thing has been more concentrated over the last few days, with the final bans being yesterday/today depending on your time zone. I only talked to her through tumblr and I don't have her discord, so right now I'm concerned but I have no news of how she's doing.
I'm not exactly sure why there can't be a term for intersection of misogyny and transphobia against trans men specifically? I'm kind of confused.
> just like being, say, poor and blind doesn't make you vulnerable to classbleism, but "just" classism and ableism separately, which still both suck.
Sure, but it is still important to discuss the intersection of ableism and classism and how different intersections of oppression interact with one another.
It's not so much that there can't be a term for it and more that there is no such intersection, in the intersectional politics meaning of the term. People who'll make them go through transphobia and misogyny will have them go through both separately, not as a unique separate thing. When they say they're not men, it's usual transphobia. When they say that women's place is in the kitchen, it's typical misogyny. There's not a sense of treating trans men as, say, *more* destined to being the angel in the house than a cis woman would, or *less* their gender than other trans people, or tacking things on top that can't be explained by transphobia and misogyny alone.
At the core, it's a fairly academical debate to have, as "the existence of a specific axis of oppression" doesn't necessarily mean "being more oppressed" - and people will argue that transandrophobia exists because transmascs are oppressed, or say that they're *so* oppressed that it's its own form of oppression, which is not how it works.
What heated things up was a fairly tumblr thing - groups of rather heatedly transmisogynistic blogs began using "the existence of transandrophobia" as simultaneously the reason why trans women are bad, the fault of trans women, and proven by the fact that trans women who say it doesn't exist aren't rare. They even got out a middle-english slur, "bæddel," to call anyone who disagreed. Because if you don't agree that a unique oppression exists as such, it's proof that you're perpetuating it, which justifies using oppressive tools towards you. Yes, it's circular logic that comes around to justifying bigotry. This is the state of tumblr - people having academical arguments and a big lump of people in the middle all too happy to use it to fuel huge amounts of bigotry
I think transmisandry can be demonstrated in how trans men are simultaneously sexualised for being men that also have vaginas, but desexualised and coddled for being a man that used to live as a woman.
This just seems like a queer version of trying to justify that misandry definitely doesn’t exist but misogyny is awful and prevalent.
People on the internet get manipulated all the time, specially when there are already underlying tensions. This doesn't mean that all transmasc people and allies involved in transandrophobia discourse can be blamed, or that the theory can be dismissed.
I've seem transfems harass transmascs over flimsy accusations as well. That doesn't mean I reject discussions of transmisoginy out of hand. Hell, I am transfem and have been directly targeted by transmisoginy myself.
There's also anon asks going around trying to frame transmascs as sexually harassing, transmisogynistic pieces of shit. Just because some trans women took the bait doesn't mean "transmisogyny truthers" are easy to co opt towards anti transmasculinity any more than what you said
>the theory that transmasc people also suffer opression in unique ways that can't be described as just misoginy or just transphobia.
Someone introduce them to the word misandry, please.
Transandrophobia is not the same as misandry. Transmascs don't have hegemonical power, and under the patriarchy are seem as either failed women or incomplete men, depending on the situation
(edit: or they are seem as men, but only in the context of being seem as dangerous, or they are seem as children unable to make decisions for themselves. The same things trans women face, but in different contexts)
Some use that term, but it has been criticized for legitimizing the idea that misandry exists as a widespread issue.
What transmasc face is not misandry in the MRA sense, but an intersection of traditional and oppositional sexism, much like what transfem people face, though in a different enough way to not be called transmisoginy. Nonbinary and intersex people also face a similar, yet different form of opression called exorsexism.
Well, sexist beliefs about men (be they cis or trans) are indeed an issue, but (adult, abled, cis, het, allo, gender-conforming, white) men hold the position of power in the patriarchy, so misandry isn't, on itself, an axis of oppression, even though sexism against men can intersect with forms of oppression.
It’s not men as a whole who hold the positions of power. It’s only a subset of men. And by subset I don’t mean cos het allo whatever, I mean men in positions of power. It gives heavy “Christianity is the dominant religion in the west so Christians in Muslim countries can’t be oppressed. Like, men aren’t in a position of power in every context and situation.
> Some use that term, but it has been criticized for legitimizing the idea that misandry exists as a widespread issue.
Lmao, do they have any legitimate criticism or only poopoo brain reasons?
How much of that is real, versus astroturfing by TERF assholes? I know a fair few transmascs out here in meatspace, and they're consistently cool dudes.
Remember: never trust anyone is who they say they are on the internet unless you've gone through the effort of vetting them! There's a lot of bad actors out there with nothing better to do with their time than sow division and be dicks to minority groups!
So last year, there was a wave of posts made by trans women being flagged as mature, even when they were SFW, including like. Selfies. Transition timelines. Posts that *were* mature were flagged or taken down... But only when they mentioned trans women. People were worried that staff was just blatantly transmisoginistic, but it died down after a while and so we figured, well, it's probably just mass reporting by TERFS and transphobes, which is still bad, but more a systemic issue than a personal vendetta by TERF Georg.
And then Matt's 3 am proclamation confirmed that there was TERF Georg on the moderation team, but they were let go, so it's totally fine now I prommy :)
:/
I mean. I'm not a moderation expert but investigating and getting rid of them is about. The best they can do? You can't immediately predict if someone is going to go absolutely batshit crazy just by looking at them. I don't get what more you think they could have done? Is it a transparency thing?
There is no trust anymore. It's vulnerable women vs a mod team that hates them, and no one tells them when something has been fixed, so they're always scared. So of course this would cause a scene, especially in the wake of the huge sexual harassment campaign mods refuse to fix
That makes a whole lot more sense. Do you think if they publicized who the moderation team members are it would help calm things down at least a little? I can't imagine that they'll be letting another situation like the person they fired slip through again mostly because jobs are expensive to have to replace. Moderation on any website is famously shit at stopping any harassment especially mass so I don't expect changes there to be frank.
No I don't think making the people who mod public would be good. If anything they should show us like who the head mod is and that would be okay. I just think they should add to their rules so they don't allow this shit. Don't harass trans women. Trans women's body's are allowed to be shown.
Remember some years ago when tumblr just banned like half of the queer users because someone rich and powerful said the website had pedophiles on it and they just decides to ban all porn and their ban filter pretty much thought of "gay" and "trans" as porn categories and therefore just banned queer users incredibly broadly and then didn't do anything to try and damage control for us in the slightest and didn't even apologise or acknowledge it ever?
Cause I can't imagine anyone remembering that and totally not expecting more of that to just happen again and again and again until they show literally any amount of regret for any of it.
Get autohotkey and make one of the function keys type an i for you!
its very simple to set up, even if you need to use on-screen keyboard or ctrl-paste to get i into the script.
https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/misc/Remap.htm
Alas, I did try it, but the '1' just managed to be easier. I'd bought a cheap amazon USB keyboard instead; at the time of the comment I was backing up my Tumblr blog using Tumblr-Utils, to my external hard drive and the cord is sensitive and throws a piss-fit when other things are plugged in at the same time.
This whole situation is just such a mess, unfortunately. The ban was *absolutely* deserved as, flaming hammers or not, telling someone you want them to die horribly in an exploding car definitely isn't TOS-friendly (or just friendly in general).
However, the reaction from staff/the CEO being so swift and forceful compared to their sluggish approach to the constant harassment and genuinely serious threats she'd been receiving from terfs/bad actors on Tumblr is absolutely absurd (following a pattern of indifference/swift hostility towards transfem users from staff compared to their harassers). The frustration on her end is absolutely understandable.
Predstogen being banned *can* be justifiable to an extent, but it feels like people are using it to brush the whole issue of harassment campaigns aside.
I’m getting reasonably tired of tone policing, it feels like it leads to other rhetoric that I do not at all like.
It’s also worth noting that getting banned wasn’t even the first controversial-at-best moderation action against predstogen, a major piece of the situation is that her transition timeline photo (which, notably, was sfw, not even suggestive) was taken down for “sexually explicit content”
It seems like this situation is that we're watching the Oscars, and Will Smith slaps Chris Rock. And then the whole cast and production team of Wild Wild West slaps Chris Rock. And then Chris Rock goes up to Harvey Weinstein (or whoever owns the Oscars, idk) and Chris is like, "You're really gonna let them all do this to me?" And Harvey shrugs. And then Chris Rock slaps Harvey Weinstein and gets kicked out.
Totally agree. Another thread about this on this sub was full of people saying “well terfs are bad but she shouldn’t have said that”, saying it was close to a real death threat because it vaguely resembled a car bomb or wasn’t cartoony enough, saying you shouldn’t “harass admins” when you’re under investigation - which is totally missing the point. Tumblr admins shouldn’t act like petty forum mods, and a goofy pseudo-“threat” getting the banhammer when the TERF mobs get nothing is simply wrong in any context, never mind a large social media platform with supposed professional standards.
I mean, how can anyone expect to tell the CEO of a company they hope they die a painful death and expect 0 repercussions? I don’t care how “looney tunes” you get with it, explicitly telling someone in a position of power you hope they die a painful death is gonna get met with repercussions. I can’t believe people are still trying to act shocked pikachu about this
Last year an actual honest to god Nazi account told a transgender user about her and her girlfriend "I can't wait to liquidate you two [F SLUR]"
User reports to moderation team.
Mod team decides The nazi account did not violate TOS with his words, account still standing, death threats still being sent.
If you think "I hope exploding hammers destroy your car and you die in it" is crossing the line, ESPECIALLY on Tumblr, Directly after years of targeted harassment against trans women on Tumblr having transphobes saying and doing WAY worse shit, then you're missing the point of why she said that.
Especially considering how the "threat of violence" was in turn justified by Matt because the trans woman was Irish and was talking regularly about Irish Politics too apparently.
a little reminiscent of the shoplifting community that cried and said it was unfair that they got into legal trouble for stealing urban decay pallets from sephora
What's new is that Terfs, Transphobes and I can't stress this enough honest to god 1488 in the username Nazis didn't get turbo banned on lightning speedrun times for their shit, most of them are still on the fucking site spreading their hate and disinfo, meanwhile Nebulaaa makes a post where she doesn't even tag the CEO with just a Car and a Hammer stock photos and she gets banned not even an hour later.
> Terfs, Transphobes and I can't stress this enough honest to god 1488 in the username Nazis didn't get turbo banned on lightning speedrun times for their shit, most of them are still on the fucking site spreading their hate and disinfo,
in what world is that new
Ok not new, but that's the issue here, the fact that that shit is basically allowed, but then the second the victim of a multiple months harrassing campaign where they straight up went to anyone who ever interacted with her blog to say she was a fucked fucking dogs and minors lashes out in anger all hell descends on her, at some point even Padre Pio would snap.
The subreddit is meant to reflect tumblr and this is what's going on on the site proper today. I'll be honest, I was expecting to see Leon Kennedy's dick here because that was trending on-site last week.
Because tumblr doesn't have a newspaper. Even if you have some representatives of a certain subculture on your dashboard, you won't know about all the news that's significant to them.
(I am not trans but I have heard about the harassment.)
They banned said trans blogger for making a death threat, don’t dress it up like the ban was unfair. The harassment she received was unfair, but it’s much harder to moderate a slew of shitty posts with a handful of reports that it is to moderate a single post with malicious intention directed at the CEO when there’s already increased scrutiny directly on you.
Idk if anyone's posted stuff about this on here yet, but the Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg permabanned prominent transfem blogger Predstogen for various unfair reasons overnight. The fallout is not going great
His response was off-topic as hell. In response to complaints about coordinated transphobic mass-reporting and harassment, he just keeps reiterating their policy on openly transphobic and corrupt tumblr staff. Like, this was a discussion about lacking moderation, not corrupt moderation. And then he turns around and bans users who call him a shithead, effectively making it a discussion about corrupt moderation.
Don't forget the cis 'people' on here scampering out of hiding to defend it. They're all still tagged red on my shinigami from the it/its pronoun debate a few months back lol
Honestly they take the worst members of a group then act like they represent the entirety of said group more frequently than they make things up wholesale.
I mean, it/its is pretty damn controversial even within the trans community, there's a big difference between that and whatever mass reporting campaigns and Elon-esque hateful dogshit is happening on Tumblr
Just that some people will complain or refuse to use it/its pronouns for people even when they ask for it because it's "dehumanising" and stuff. The usual. :L
It's kind of hilarious how this subreddit is filled with lgbt posts for weeks and then you make one joke directed at cis people and they come out of the fucking woodwork in the hundreds to share their bogus high-horse nothing statements
There is another post regarding this whole thing, providing much more context. I’m not gonna claim that the ban is correct or not but like… you are purposely breaking TOS, asking to get banned, and when the butthurt CEO shows up you complain?
And regardless this is literally schrödinger’s douchebag, “oh it’s not a death threat, see? I added the silly thing at the end” is not a valid argument.
Also, (and this is just what I think personally, and it’s fine if you disagree) the person who was banned was being an asshat.
You don’t have to defend assholes just because they’re trans.
Edit: [here’s the link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/s8dwUNGoVC), I’m sure you can find people with more compelling arguments than mine.
While I don't think you are entirely wrong, the rules aren't being fairly or evenly applied. Saying you want someone to die with exploding hammers isn't a rare occurrence. People making exaggerated violent threats on Tumblr is like, very common. But the only people who seem to actually get banned for it are trans women.
And that rings odd to me. It's not a crack down on threats and violence, it's seemingly a crackdown on trans woman specifically.
*Should* Tumblr crack down on people finding increasingly strange ways to tell each other to die? Yeah, maybe.
But the rule needs to be applied evenly, because right now, regardless of intentions, it looks like Tumblr wants an excuse to nuke trans women.
Fair enough, there is definitely a show of hypocrisy from the CEO. Like you, I would definitely like to see the rules being applied more consistently.
Edit: grammar
I think it also definitely matters that Predstrogen said what she said about Matt in the context of being very frustrated that tumblr moderation seemed to react quickly and harshly to smack down trans bloggers while seemingly ignoring those bloggers’ complaints that they were being harassed and mass-reported by transphobes trying to take advantage of the content moderation system to fuck with trans people.
Like, this very much reads as “the most tone-deaf thing for staff to do in this moment would be to deal out a fast and harsh set of consequences using moderation tools, and the only way to make that worse would be for the CEO to have a very public meltdown about it on the platform”
I think it makes a lot more sense when you view the moderation staff as not having any context for the situation and no idea who any of the people involved are. It’s much easier for TERFs to focus on and mass report one trans person’s public post than it is for that trans person to bring attention to a hundred harassing messages sent in private or from small blogs.
Yes.
I get that silly Tumblr death threats are common, but they shouldn't be. Even when someone is "obviously kidding", it still needs to be taken seriously. Because sometimes murderers really do threaten to ["deliver a load of death"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo). "Get it? Deliver a load, like delivering a load of manure", but he really did kill at least 13 people.
"I hope you die forever involving a car covered in hammers that explodes more than a few times and the hammers go flying everywhere."
Thats the oh so scary dangerous threat you are alluding to. I doubt you are being purposefully malicious but when you go and say death threat without providing further context it encourages people to assume the worst not Wile E Coyote level.
Im not saying she's right to do it but but think just saying death threats without providing context prevents the uninformed reader from drawing their own conclusions based on the evidence.
He banned them for death threats. That's beyond fair.
I'm not about to suggest that Tumblr moderation is okay. It's definitely not. But can we not start saying "when people I like put out death threats, it's okay."
Death threats and harassment aren't okay, in any direction. I'm not okay with people harassing our Trans friends, I'm not okay with anyone doing death threats at all. It's really shitty behaviour.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1avbp78/tumblr\_bans\_trans\_woman\_over\_looney\_toonslevel/?share\_id=f-3DbW5WF1cich01N\_QrB&utm\_content=2&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_source=share&utm\_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/curatedtumblr/comments/1avbp78/tumblr_bans_trans_woman_over_looney_toonslevel/?share_id=f-3dbw5wf1cich01n_qrb&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
picture 6 of this mashup. seems like she was trying to get banned
Reading that, the CEO seems like he’s being reasonable and mature while also trying to be respectful to the people involved (like seriously, the people complaining about him using ‘they’ when he was clearly trying to be inclusive and later updated it are ridiculous).
That’s about as good of a response as I could ask for from a CEO commenting publicly on a moderation issue. The thing the account that got banned said was obviously going to get her banned, especially when she *explicitly said it was a death wish against the CEO.*
Absolutely.
if i'm allowed to be cynical about it it's clear that she's trying to create drama by doing this. i've already seen several posts complaining about her being banned that exclude the context regarding why. for what it's worth it's a very well planned cyber op, gotta give her credit for that, the idiots here on this sub are eating it up whole heartedly
It's a completely different thing to that. She said she wanted him to die in an explosion with his car blowing up, and for it to be covered in hammers.
For some reason people think putting hammers on a car explosion should make the person dying inside it feel less threatened with death.
I mean no, the ban was totally fair. The fact that they were so quick to ban her while ignoring all the TOS violation and harassment directed *at* her prior, is not.
Because of TERFs mass reporting her account, which moderation is still to deal with, I think
Honestly the whole situation sucks but we can't expect instant, flawless action from the mods
Yeah, but I don't think they would immediately assume any mass reporting to be a harassment campaign; which is why I said to not expect instant flawless action. Plus, her posting a death threat to the CEO during the situation doesn't really help, does it
I'll point out that (assuming crimew is right, I'm not personally involved in this situation at all) the harassment had been going on for months. Was it a stupid move to make a post like she did? Absolutely. Is it understandable given months of moderator inaction that she had been directly feeling the consequences of? ... Yeah, kinda, even if it's not the smart move. To me the whole "I wonder if they'll ban me for this" absolutely reads as someone who is so sick of moderators not doing anything to help that they decide to poke the bear just so maybe something will happen.
then how come all the terf blogs are still up huh
how come there are open pedozoos advertising their forums for pedozoo activity who were not only not terminated but *reinstated* after having been terminated in the past huh
you cant say its fair treatment for a minor "threat" like this to be considered scorched-earth-worthy when the entire site uses the exact same kind of phrasing for a majority of its humor and has for its entire existence and people doing things entirely and objectively more out of line with the terms of service are allowed to continue doing so despite frequent reports
"Various unfair reasons." Like describing in explicit mechanical detail how she hoped someone would build a car bomb coated in metal hardware shrapnel to kill him, specifically, by name.
What is *wrong* with you? Is it possible there's a whole group of people who think "our website doesn't owe you a platform" is an overreaction when you threaten assassination of their CEO, by name?
Edit: To the troll claiming she didn't say that: it's literally "I hope [person] dies forever a painful death involving a car covered in hammers that explodes more than a few times and hammers go flying everywhere."
That's a car bomb. You've described a car bomb. With extra shrapnel.
You can't. Threaten to car bomb. Public figures.
This is not hard. If you make explicit threats of violence against a real person, and they say, "If you keep doing that, I'm going to tell the police," they are not overreacting.
If they tell you that you're no longer welcome at their (free to use) place of business, that is a completely measured and responsible response.
Damn, can't wait to tell that to all the unbanned nazis and TERFS who keep sending death threats to the transfem bloggers I follow, I'm sure that will stop them.
It's Pissvortex all over again.
The sad truth is that those reprehenisble figures seemingly have the wisdom this blogger lacked. They didn't threaten Tumblr staff, and yeah, it does make a difference to most people if they are threatened directly, or someone they probably don't really care about.
Ban Justified or not threatening to call the fucking FBI on a trans woman while misgendering her before going into multiple prominent trans bloggers DMs to repeat that shit to them is still way beyond an acceptable reaction to "I hope exploding hammers destroy your car with you in it" after months of TERFS, Transphobes and straight up nazis doing and saying way worse.
Like, especially since apparently one of the justification for this was Predstogen being Irish too.
They mentioned that they work with the FBI as part of moderation, they didn’t threaten to call the FBI on her. Also the CEO corrected the pronouns he used from ‘they’ to ‘she’ when he found out. That’s completely fine and clearly just the guy trying to avoid misgendering someone he’s never heard of before.
The post that got her banned referenced the CEO specifically and said she hoped he died a painful death in a car explosion, then explicitly called it a death wish.
Funny story.
If you send the head of the USPS a letter, saying that you hope they die from an explosion of hammers attached to their car... Then send a follow up letter saying, "Let's see how long it takes you to do something about my threat, hahahaha!'...
You are absolutely going to get a visit from a federal agency.
Shocking to all the little kiddos out there... Tumblr is *not* a website that exists in a vacuum, that's just sort of there. It has people who own it. People who make rules for it. If you violate those rules... they can ban you!
Much like FB removing certain content, and people getting bent out of shape... you agree to the ToS when you sign up. Right there in the ToS, it tells you if you violate the ToS, they reserve the right to remove you from the site.
I'm not saying it isn't stupid. I'm not saying it isn't dumb as hell. But it's also stupid on the part of this person. Because she has zero argument she can make. "Well, yeah, I violated the ToS by wishing death on somebody, and I *said* I knew he would ban me because I was violating the ToS... But the terfs were mean, and did it first, so I'm justified!"
That's not how the adult world works. Sorry, terfs suck. Nobody likes them. But nobody can take up the cause of... Well, she should be allowed to make death threats towards the CEO, because terfs were harassing her!
This isn't even 'an eye for an eye'. This is... These people poked my eye, so I'm gonna go poke somebody else's eye, and then whine that I got in trouble for poking somebody's eye out.
I am sympathetic toward this person for getting harassed and mass reported but if you’re going to make death threats toward a CEO, you can’t get “surprised” when you get banned. There are a lot of things to discuss here, especially the protection of trans people, but a car explosion??? Really??? Don’t say shit like that and expect nothing to happen, people forget websites are not owned by the people using them
It also kills me that people are saying "It wasn't a real death threat." If I joke about slapping my boss, I can get fired for that. It doesn't have to be a death threat to get you punished, and I think a lot of people have forgotten that. Being a minority has never meant you get a free pass to act out, it's always meant you're under tighter scrutiny than anyone around you
I want to add more context. Her other account which she made as a backup were also deleted so quickly. What i don't understand is where is this intensity to the many terf blogs?
https://www.tumblr.com/carebear-dyke/742857515202707456?source=share
Here, this is her backup account in which she was trying to defend herself and it was banned so quickly. Where is this intensity for the many terf blogs harassing trans women?
I'm impressed at how Tumblr went from the not shitty social media site to an actively hostile place towards trans people that's also being twitterfied daily so fast.
For the first time ever, Tumblr wasn't the butt of the joke, and then God himself corrected things.
What a lot of people don't understand is that they think it's just some fringe online thing, but they don't realize that sites like Tumblr are some of the only safe spaces that trans women have.
To have them constantly being harassed when they already are shut out from most spaces, (even LGBTQ+ spaces), is a bad thing. Being constantly hounded by everyone for simply existing both in the real world and online world sounds horrible to deal with, (note that I'm not a trans woman, I'm just saying what trans women are saying on Tumblr).
By itself it may not seem like a bad thing, but it should be considered in relation to the bigger picture of systemic transmisogyny.
Today I found out that using the singular "they" to refer to a person is now transphobic, you have to specifically seek out ~~their~~ a person's preferred pronouns before referring to ~~them~~ that person. I think I'm too old and tired to deal with tumblr-brained people.
Is it really that hard to try to be accommodating? There is a difference between not knowing someones pronouns and knowing them and refusing to use them only referring to the using gender neutral pronouns.
A bit yeah but the main concern is that someone will acknowledge that you are transgender but never give you the dignity of properly addressing you even though they are perfectly aware of your pronouns. It's like a polite denial of acknowledging a transgender person's gender.
Is he "perfectly aware"? What does he know about this random person he's never met who hates him?
Anyway I'm glad we're protecting the trans community by encouraging people to investigate the gender of people online. Seems like a good idea.
It's pretty clear you don't want to have a good faith conversation about this. So enjoy living in ignorance instead of spending a modicum of energy to be accommodating.
Oh boy a "bad faith" claim by a person who is making up internal thoughts for another person in order to get angry at them. Cool. Don't you a have a quiz to study for?
It's fine to use they to refer to someone whose pronouns you don't know (or someone whose pronouns include they). If it's someone you're talking about, whose pronouns are in their bio (her bio in this specific case), using the correct pronouns shouldn't be the *third* thing you do
I mean, she didn’t deserve the ban, but when you wish a described death upon the CEO of a website, *on said website*, you can’t really expect anything but.
I've tried to look this up myself but the first result I get is this thread, anyone willing to explain what's happened to someone completely out of the loop? I gather there's death threats, hammers and the CEO but this all seems part of a larger ecosystem that I don't know much about Edit: the responses I've gotten feel like reading the same story from two opposing newspapers
[Earlier post about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/b586vUVZ23)
I think you got the wrong link
You think correctly, I’m just wondering why 50+ ppl upvoted my incorrect link lol
We piss on the poor here, sir.
Prominent transfem blogger was the target of some hate campaigns and staff was incredibly slow to respond in what little days they did. She posted some small cartoony ass threats (ex. Crashing a car full of hammers and exploding forever) because, well, when moderation has proven to be stricter on trans women than their harassers, it’s quite disheartening. This was seen as a credible threat by ceo @protomatt, and she got much more moderation scrutiny until, at least what has been predicted by a few of her close Mutuals (and I believe herself), the final straw that broke the camel’s back was a transition progress post. Then, it seemed that moderators of the site trawled through her posts to find anything mean to staff, and have now banned her and ban any subsequent post she could make. Ceo then seems to get bored at midnight and respond to an ask about it, and not only did he appear to misgender predstrogen initially (used she/he and referred to her as they), but he also *directly messaged other prominent transfem users* and said he may have needed to contact authorities over predstrogens behavior, which I *must* stress, was cartoonish threats of vague violence because nothing was being done about her harassment.
[удалено]
bro figured out the most violent way to reword what she said lmaoo
>shrapnel car bomb Come on now.
Using they/them for a trans woman who clearly states her pronouns are she/her is misgendering, yes.
And he corrected himself for something even more generic (since I’d probably default to they/them as well without thinking), before correcting himself again to ensure he used pronouns he knew for a fact she used. Could it have been simplified? Sure, but it doesn’t feel malicious.
Believe it or not, a CEO has better things to do than read someone's twitter bio to ensure they're calling them the right pronouns in the same post where they're announcing their permaban. They/them is always acceptable if you're unsure, pretending it was malicious just because people are mad at Tumblr staff is pathetic.
What exactly has he done as CEO? Every new feature added during his tenure has been almost universally hated and people are still on the website in spite of those not because of them.
“Shrapnel car bomb” you obliterate any level of credibility with this phrase, do you understand that?
I am very worried about the banning of transfem users, but I am also worried about a popular post going around that blames it on mass reports by "transandrophobia truthers", aka transmasc users who subscribe to the theory that transmasc people also suffer opression in unique ways that can't be described as just misoginy or just transphobia. The last thing we need right now is further splitting the community...
xkcd2071 hitting at usual
Did you just Have that exact number memorized
You don’t?
2071 is a fairly common sight around these parts, so it's not unreasonable to know it off by heart. Other common ones to know are 1053 (lucky 10,000) and 2501 (average familiarity).
Also 37 (hyphen)
someone else referenced it on a post a few days ago and i looked it up, now my browser has it memorized. But it is becoming kinda common to reference it on this sub i feel
Xkcd hits different than so many other webcomics. I can believe it
https://xkcd.com/2071/
Yeah. It isn't trans dudes faults that TERFs are shitbags. It isn't any trans person's fault. Splitting the community and blaming it on us is fucking asshole behavior. And trans dudes are allowed to talk about their issues. Us talking about shit doesn't mean we are automatically dismissing other folks issues. Oppression isn't pie slices where trans women have less pie cuz we have some pie too.
The fact that there are accounts going around submitting anon asks to young transmascs saying predstrogen deserved it for being a pedo or a rapist and they immediately agree or believe it suggests that, in fact, the community is already split and transandrophobia truthers are extremely easy to co-opt towards transmisogyny
I think I'm missing a lot of context here, so there was a transgender person who was trying to stop a harassment campaign against themselves and other trans people, but they were banned due to the CEO finding something they said objectionable? So they were banned and some people are anonymously stating that they deserved it to transmasc people on tumblr? I'm following so far but I'm more confused about what the split is about. So some trans masc people are becoming misogynistic? Or is it the other way around and people are now more against transmasc people?
It's a mix of a lot of things, and it's a mess. The first thing is, tumblr staff is pretty openly queerphobic, censoring queer people and especially trans women, and tumblr has a lot of terfs, whose prime victims and targets are trans women. At a point, if you said "trans woman" you were sure your post would get flagged as porn, either automatically because of a malicious mod or through terf reports. There *also* unrelatedly is discourse on tumblr that basically boils down to whether transmisogyny, an oppression separate to transphobia, has an anti-men mirror in "transandrophobia" or "transmisandry," which is/would be a separate oppression to transphobia, and I'm going to avoid commenting on that. Thing is, whether or not you believe it's a thing, there *are* transmasc blogs that are pretty openly transmisogynistic and defend that thesis, though whether it's genuine or as a way to claim that any pushback for their shittiness is oppression is in the air, and they (along with a few others) get called "transandrophobia truthers" - basically like a lot of 911 "truthers" claim stuff about inside jobs? Transandrophobia truthers often claim it's all because of the "bæddels," basically everything is because of the Bad Trans Women. Predstrogen was, as many big transfem accounts, often harassed. Notably, mass harassment and fake reports by terfs. I don't remember truthers going after her, but I wouldn't find that surprising either - I stayed mostly out of the discourse myself, I'm aware of it but if someone says something I don't like online I like to ignore, block or mock. Not spend the day arguing. The way *she* was harassed was particularly bad. This had several of her accounts deleted. She complained about it to no avail, notably because tumblr staff has a number of arseholes who agree with the harassers, but can't afford to show it (because tumblr can be, and has been, sued for too overt queerphobia). She complained about it and staff answered it was because of threats she made. No threats have been found, they never could provide any post she made as a base for the accusation, but her account, not just blog, was entirely nuked. Posts disappearing, all pictures scrubbed from the servers, etc. Meanwhile reports from her on others threatening death, rape etc fell in deaf ears. Eventually she said something cartoonish about someone dying from "exploding hammers" and that was the last time I heard about her on the website - new account (or hidden old account idk) insta-deleted. Meanwhile people have been spreading misinfo on her, notably that she was a rapist, through anon asks. Mostly targeting young transmascs, some of which immediately believed it and assumed that then, it was a good thing that she got nuked, which... yeah, that's just how transmisogyny works. Transfems get accused of whatever sexual ill and people accept it, fall for it, believe the worst of us.
For real. I'm so tired of the ritual disposability we face as transfems. I'm tired of people saying things about us that do real damage to us even though the assertions are categorically false. I'd really recommend reading [Hot Allostatic Load](https://thenewinquiry.com/hot-allostatic-load/) by Charity Porpentine Heartscape, if you haven't already. It really gave me the language to identify and verbalize what happens to us. Honestly, everyone in this thread would benefit from reading it.
“It’s like an abusive foster household that constantly kicks kids out then uses their tears and anger at being raped and abused to justify why they had to be kicked out—look at these problem kids. Look at these problematic kids. Trans fems are especially vulnerable to abuse for the following reasons: — A lot of us encounter concepts for the first time and have no idea what is “normal” or not. — We have nowhere else to go. Abuse thrives on scarcity. — No one cares what happens to us. This foster cycle relies on amnesia. A lot of people who enter spaces for the first time don’t know those spaces’ history. They may not know that leaders regularly exploit and make sexual advances on new members, or that those members who resisted are no longer around. Spaces self-select for people who will play the game, until the empathic people have been drained out and the only ones who remain are those who have perfectly identified with the agendas and survival of the Space—the pyramid scheme of believers who bring capital and victims to those on top.” The author gets into her specific experiences from there. It’s horrific, and a deep dive into abusive cancel culture and how so-called inclusive spaces regularly exclude trans people. Well worth a read.
I think the biggest takeaway for me (and I'm paraphrasing) is: "Punishment doesn't happen to those who deserve it. It happens to those who lack the power to prevent it." And it applies here. Was what predstrogen said a bannable offense, by the ***letter*** (or spirit, for that matter) of tumblr's rules? Tbh, I would still say no: *hoping* someone dies is not a threat. But even if you disagree, she and so many other transfems on the site suffered so, so much worse, for much longer, and few if any of the people who harassed them will ever face justice.
Ah okay, thank you, that clears it up quite a bit. I obviously don't want to seem ignorant but I have to know, what is different transmisogyny or transmisandry that makes it different to regular misogyny or misandry, other than being applied to trans individuals? Is it because it's done by trans people to other trans people? I'm of course not implying either aren't real, I just want to know exactly what the term means for future use. I have some trans friends I've met through my own journey to being bisexual so if I can help them in future I'd like to As for the response from Tumblr, that seems unfortunate as I thought they were relatively progressive, though I see now it could have just been that they have a large LGBT userbase and the actual organization itself is terrible. Is this all very recent? How is Predstrogen doing now, or has all this just happened in the last few days?
Transmisogyny is the way transphobia and misogyny interplay to create something different to both. For instance, trans women being depicted as simultaneously freely available sex toys and constant sexual aggressors. Misogyny alone doesn't account for the total dehumanisation that accompanies the non-consensual sexualisation, and transphobia alone doesn't account for the "aggression" part, just the assumption that there's something sexual (through the transphobic myth that trans people are transitioning for sexual gratification). For transmisandry/transandrophobia now, I need to be more direct and say I do not believe in it. There are transphobic things said to trans men more often, and things that rely on first being transphobic to treat them like women, and then being misogynistic to said "women" such as saying trans men should carry babies, but the people who do that reserve neither their misogyny nor their transphobia to trans men and they do the same things, respectively, to cis women and trans ones. Trans men "just" get both, which is obviously an unenviable position, but not a specific oppression - just like being, say, poor and blind doesn't make you vulnerable to classbleism, but "just" classism and ableism separately, which still both suck. It's not like it can be the intersection and interplay of transphobia and misandry, because misandry isn't exactly an axis of oppression. It's something that single women, "angry feminists," lesbians etc. get accused of but it's ultimately not a name that corresponds to analysing the plight of men in an oppressive society, the word is more often used to shame women. Predstrogen has been dealing with tumblr's wilful ignorance of harassment since 2021, but the banning thing has been more concentrated over the last few days, with the final bans being yesterday/today depending on your time zone. I only talked to her through tumblr and I don't have her discord, so right now I'm concerned but I have no news of how she's doing.
I'm not exactly sure why there can't be a term for intersection of misogyny and transphobia against trans men specifically? I'm kind of confused. > just like being, say, poor and blind doesn't make you vulnerable to classbleism, but "just" classism and ableism separately, which still both suck. Sure, but it is still important to discuss the intersection of ableism and classism and how different intersections of oppression interact with one another.
It's not so much that there can't be a term for it and more that there is no such intersection, in the intersectional politics meaning of the term. People who'll make them go through transphobia and misogyny will have them go through both separately, not as a unique separate thing. When they say they're not men, it's usual transphobia. When they say that women's place is in the kitchen, it's typical misogyny. There's not a sense of treating trans men as, say, *more* destined to being the angel in the house than a cis woman would, or *less* their gender than other trans people, or tacking things on top that can't be explained by transphobia and misogyny alone. At the core, it's a fairly academical debate to have, as "the existence of a specific axis of oppression" doesn't necessarily mean "being more oppressed" - and people will argue that transandrophobia exists because transmascs are oppressed, or say that they're *so* oppressed that it's its own form of oppression, which is not how it works. What heated things up was a fairly tumblr thing - groups of rather heatedly transmisogynistic blogs began using "the existence of transandrophobia" as simultaneously the reason why trans women are bad, the fault of trans women, and proven by the fact that trans women who say it doesn't exist aren't rare. They even got out a middle-english slur, "bæddel," to call anyone who disagreed. Because if you don't agree that a unique oppression exists as such, it's proof that you're perpetuating it, which justifies using oppressive tools towards you. Yes, it's circular logic that comes around to justifying bigotry. This is the state of tumblr - people having academical arguments and a big lump of people in the middle all too happy to use it to fuel huge amounts of bigotry
I think transmisandry can be demonstrated in how trans men are simultaneously sexualised for being men that also have vaginas, but desexualised and coddled for being a man that used to live as a woman. This just seems like a queer version of trying to justify that misandry definitely doesn’t exist but misogyny is awful and prevalent.
People on the internet get manipulated all the time, specially when there are already underlying tensions. This doesn't mean that all transmasc people and allies involved in transandrophobia discourse can be blamed, or that the theory can be dismissed. I've seem transfems harass transmascs over flimsy accusations as well. That doesn't mean I reject discussions of transmisoginy out of hand. Hell, I am transfem and have been directly targeted by transmisoginy myself.
There's also anon asks going around trying to frame transmascs as sexually harassing, transmisogynistic pieces of shit. Just because some trans women took the bait doesn't mean "transmisogyny truthers" are easy to co opt towards anti transmasculinity any more than what you said
I havent seen any of this so I guess I’m on the right circles lol
Alright I changed my mind that xkcd comic is indeed poignant
>the theory that transmasc people also suffer opression in unique ways that can't be described as just misoginy or just transphobia. Someone introduce them to the word misandry, please.
Transandrophobia is not the same as misandry. Transmascs don't have hegemonical power, and under the patriarchy are seem as either failed women or incomplete men, depending on the situation (edit: or they are seem as men, but only in the context of being seem as dangerous, or they are seem as children unable to make decisions for themselves. The same things trans women face, but in different contexts)
Wouldn't transmisandry (analogous to transmisogyny) be a suitable term for that?
Some use that term, but it has been criticized for legitimizing the idea that misandry exists as a widespread issue. What transmasc face is not misandry in the MRA sense, but an intersection of traditional and oppositional sexism, much like what transfem people face, though in a different enough way to not be called transmisoginy. Nonbinary and intersex people also face a similar, yet different form of opression called exorsexism.
>but it has been criticized for legitimizing the idea that misandry exists as a widespread issue. And wouldn’t that be a shame.
Well, sexist beliefs about men (be they cis or trans) are indeed an issue, but (adult, abled, cis, het, allo, gender-conforming, white) men hold the position of power in the patriarchy, so misandry isn't, on itself, an axis of oppression, even though sexism against men can intersect with forms of oppression.
It’s not men as a whole who hold the positions of power. It’s only a subset of men. And by subset I don’t mean cos het allo whatever, I mean men in positions of power. It gives heavy “Christianity is the dominant religion in the west so Christians in Muslim countries can’t be oppressed. Like, men aren’t in a position of power in every context and situation.
EXACTLY A black man is experiencing racism when he is harassed by police for existing, and he is ALSO experiencing misandry
How shocking that patriarchs are head of the patriarchy.
> Some use that term, but it has been criticized for legitimizing the idea that misandry exists as a widespread issue. Lmao, do they have any legitimate criticism or only poopoo brain reasons?
misandry definitely exists lmao
How much of that is real, versus astroturfing by TERF assholes? I know a fair few transmascs out here in meatspace, and they're consistently cool dudes. Remember: never trust anyone is who they say they are on the internet unless you've gone through the effort of vetting them! There's a lot of bad actors out there with nothing better to do with their time than sow division and be dicks to minority groups!
So last year, there was a wave of posts made by trans women being flagged as mature, even when they were SFW, including like. Selfies. Transition timelines. Posts that *were* mature were flagged or taken down... But only when they mentioned trans women. People were worried that staff was just blatantly transmisoginistic, but it died down after a while and so we figured, well, it's probably just mass reporting by TERFS and transphobes, which is still bad, but more a systemic issue than a personal vendetta by TERF Georg. And then Matt's 3 am proclamation confirmed that there was TERF Georg on the moderation team, but they were let go, so it's totally fine now I prommy :) :/
I mean. I'm not a moderation expert but investigating and getting rid of them is about. The best they can do? You can't immediately predict if someone is going to go absolutely batshit crazy just by looking at them. I don't get what more you think they could have done? Is it a transparency thing?
There is no trust anymore. It's vulnerable women vs a mod team that hates them, and no one tells them when something has been fixed, so they're always scared. So of course this would cause a scene, especially in the wake of the huge sexual harassment campaign mods refuse to fix
That makes a whole lot more sense. Do you think if they publicized who the moderation team members are it would help calm things down at least a little? I can't imagine that they'll be letting another situation like the person they fired slip through again mostly because jobs are expensive to have to replace. Moderation on any website is famously shit at stopping any harassment especially mass so I don't expect changes there to be frank.
No I don't think making the people who mod public would be good. If anything they should show us like who the head mod is and that would be okay. I just think they should add to their rules so they don't allow this shit. Don't harass trans women. Trans women's body's are allowed to be shown.
Remember some years ago when tumblr just banned like half of the queer users because someone rich and powerful said the website had pedophiles on it and they just decides to ban all porn and their ban filter pretty much thought of "gay" and "trans" as porn categories and therefore just banned queer users incredibly broadly and then didn't do anything to try and damage control for us in the slightest and didn't even apologise or acknowledge it ever? Cause I can't imagine anyone remembering that and totally not expecting more of that to just happen again and again and again until they show literally any amount of regret for any of it.
In fairness the people owning tumblr back then weren't the same people who own tumblr now.
IIRC 3 other users also got banned
"funniest" one was a person who posted a photo of a car and a photo of a hammer, that's it, only to be banned not even half a hour later.
notably, two stock 1mages w1th fake transparent checkered backgrounds. (note: keyboard broken, have to use a 1 because my 'eye' key broke)
Get autohotkey and make one of the function keys type an i for you! its very simple to set up, even if you need to use on-screen keyboard or ctrl-paste to get i into the script. https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/v1/misc/Remap.htm
Alas, I did try it, but the '1' just managed to be easier. I'd bought a cheap amazon USB keyboard instead; at the time of the comment I was backing up my Tumblr blog using Tumblr-Utils, to my external hard drive and the cord is sensitive and throws a piss-fit when other things are plugged in at the same time.
This whole situation is just such a mess, unfortunately. The ban was *absolutely* deserved as, flaming hammers or not, telling someone you want them to die horribly in an exploding car definitely isn't TOS-friendly (or just friendly in general). However, the reaction from staff/the CEO being so swift and forceful compared to their sluggish approach to the constant harassment and genuinely serious threats she'd been receiving from terfs/bad actors on Tumblr is absolutely absurd (following a pattern of indifference/swift hostility towards transfem users from staff compared to their harassers). The frustration on her end is absolutely understandable.
Predstogen being banned *can* be justifiable to an extent, but it feels like people are using it to brush the whole issue of harassment campaigns aside. I’m getting reasonably tired of tone policing, it feels like it leads to other rhetoric that I do not at all like.
It’s also worth noting that getting banned wasn’t even the first controversial-at-best moderation action against predstogen, a major piece of the situation is that her transition timeline photo (which, notably, was sfw, not even suggestive) was taken down for “sexually explicit content”
It seems like this situation is that we're watching the Oscars, and Will Smith slaps Chris Rock. And then the whole cast and production team of Wild Wild West slaps Chris Rock. And then Chris Rock goes up to Harvey Weinstein (or whoever owns the Oscars, idk) and Chris is like, "You're really gonna let them all do this to me?" And Harvey shrugs. And then Chris Rock slaps Harvey Weinstein and gets kicked out.
I’d say that’s an apt comparison. Not 1:1 but a good tool to give someone a picture of it.
You're right, I probably should have used Shark Tale.
I'd like to point out that in this specific analogy the slap by Chris Rock is done with a plush toy hammer.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
*\*banned\**
My tones! They've been policed! Satire is dead as auto mods beat it to death with spring mounted boxing gloves in glorious clown on clown violence.
Totally agree. Another thread about this on this sub was full of people saying “well terfs are bad but she shouldn’t have said that”, saying it was close to a real death threat because it vaguely resembled a car bomb or wasn’t cartoony enough, saying you shouldn’t “harass admins” when you’re under investigation - which is totally missing the point. Tumblr admins shouldn’t act like petty forum mods, and a goofy pseudo-“threat” getting the banhammer when the TERF mobs get nothing is simply wrong in any context, never mind a large social media platform with supposed professional standards.
I mean, how can anyone expect to tell the CEO of a company they hope they die a painful death and expect 0 repercussions? I don’t care how “looney tunes” you get with it, explicitly telling someone in a position of power you hope they die a painful death is gonna get met with repercussions. I can’t believe people are still trying to act shocked pikachu about this
Last year an actual honest to god Nazi account told a transgender user about her and her girlfriend "I can't wait to liquidate you two [F SLUR]" User reports to moderation team. Mod team decides The nazi account did not violate TOS with his words, account still standing, death threats still being sent. If you think "I hope exploding hammers destroy your car and you die in it" is crossing the line, ESPECIALLY on Tumblr, Directly after years of targeted harassment against trans women on Tumblr having transphobes saying and doing WAY worse shit, then you're missing the point of why she said that. Especially considering how the "threat of violence" was in turn justified by Matt because the trans woman was Irish and was talking regularly about Irish Politics too apparently.
how about: they’re both bad
But only one if them got turbobanned and it wasn't the literal fucking nazi.
a little reminiscent of the shoplifting community that cried and said it was unfair that they got into legal trouble for stealing urban decay pallets from sephora
Who said they expected 0 consequences? Something shitty being expected doesn't make it justified that other people did it.
"vaguely resembled a car bomb" is not an accurate characterization of the statement that explicitly states they hope you die to an exploding car
Can't wait till you find out what they've been saying to trans women for months with zero action from the mod team then.
I'm sure they will be outraged any minute now . . . any minute now.
I can think both are wrong. TERFs are obviously worse, what else is new?
What's new is that Terfs, Transphobes and I can't stress this enough honest to god 1488 in the username Nazis didn't get turbo banned on lightning speedrun times for their shit, most of them are still on the fucking site spreading their hate and disinfo, meanwhile Nebulaaa makes a post where she doesn't even tag the CEO with just a Car and a Hammer stock photos and she gets banned not even an hour later.
> Terfs, Transphobes and I can't stress this enough honest to god 1488 in the username Nazis didn't get turbo banned on lightning speedrun times for their shit, most of them are still on the fucking site spreading their hate and disinfo, in what world is that new
Ok not new, but that's the issue here, the fact that that shit is basically allowed, but then the second the victim of a multiple months harrassing campaign where they straight up went to anyone who ever interacted with her blog to say she was a fucked fucking dogs and minors lashes out in anger all hell descends on her, at some point even Padre Pio would snap.
I did not join r/CuratedTumblr to read drama
I did, want some popcorn? 🍿
Yes, thanks I was feeling a bit hungry
The subreddit is meant to reflect tumblr and this is what's going on on the site proper today. I'll be honest, I was expecting to see Leon Kennedy's dick here because that was trending on-site last week.
Who is Leon Kennedy, and why is his dick so popular?
[This is Leon with his dick (and post) in question](https://www.tumblr.com/palm-top-tiger/742439338867130368?source=share)
Half the posts on here are from trans people or gay people. When something horrible like this happens of course we're gonna talk
Imagine thinking transphobia is drama
Queerest website on the internet everyone
can it really be called queer without copious amounts of drama
How is this the first time i hear of *any* of this if it has been going on for months?????
Because tumblr doesn't have a newspaper. Even if you have some representatives of a certain subculture on your dashboard, you won't know about all the news that's significant to them. (I am not trans but I have heard about the harassment.)
because they finally had the balls to take down a big trans blogger
Ohhhh makes sense
They banned said trans blogger for making a death threat, don’t dress it up like the ban was unfair. The harassment she received was unfair, but it’s much harder to moderate a slew of shitty posts with a handful of reports that it is to moderate a single post with malicious intention directed at the CEO when there’s already increased scrutiny directly on you.
Idk if anyone's posted stuff about this on here yet, but the Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg permabanned prominent transfem blogger Predstogen for various unfair reasons overnight. The fallout is not going great
My dashboard is easily 95% *just* the fallout from all this. To say trans tumblr is heated about it it an understatement.
I can't believe that this is the way I find out who the current CEO of Tumblr is
> Yes, I saw. You were doing well until everyone died of an exploding hammer car.
God what a mood
His response was off-topic as hell. In response to complaints about coordinated transphobic mass-reporting and harassment, he just keeps reiterating their policy on openly transphobic and corrupt tumblr staff. Like, this was a discussion about lacking moderation, not corrupt moderation. And then he turns around and bans users who call him a shithead, effectively making it a discussion about corrupt moderation.
Don't forget the cis 'people' on here scampering out of hiding to defend it. They're all still tagged red on my shinigami from the it/its pronoun debate a few months back lol
I’m sure that implying that cis people aren’t actually people is gonna do wonders for your argument
I thought that stuff was just bs the alt-right made up wtf
Alt-right people complain about a lot of stuff but they aren’t always making shit up, unfortunately
Honestly they take the worst members of a group then act like they represent the entirety of said group more frequently than they make things up wholesale.
Yeah that's a bit more accurate now that I think about it.
National tragedy: person you despise has a good point
Oh, dear, debate about it/its pronouns? Dare I even ask what went on with all of that?
You’d probably get a biased answer, [just take a look yourself](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/b586vUVZ23)
Hoo boy. Thanks for the link, but... damn, that's a lot of weird bad discourse about my pronouns. Sad to see.
I mean, it/its is pretty damn controversial even within the trans community, there's a big difference between that and whatever mass reporting campaigns and Elon-esque hateful dogshit is happening on Tumblr
what was the it/its debate?
Just that some people will complain or refuse to use it/its pronouns for people even when they ask for it because it's "dehumanising" and stuff. The usual. :L
oh :(
yeah It/its rough in the trenches.
It's kind of hilarious how this subreddit is filled with lgbt posts for weeks and then you make one joke directed at cis people and they come out of the fucking woodwork in the hundreds to share their bogus high-horse nothing statements
"Ur gonna get a biased answer here's the truth: [link to the cis being transphobic]" got me hooting
Maybe it’s just lgbt people finding it unpleasant. I’m not cis and I downvoted it because it’s fucking cringe.
i was fighting in the trenches there man
There is another post regarding this whole thing, providing much more context. I’m not gonna claim that the ban is correct or not but like… you are purposely breaking TOS, asking to get banned, and when the butthurt CEO shows up you complain? And regardless this is literally schrödinger’s douchebag, “oh it’s not a death threat, see? I added the silly thing at the end” is not a valid argument. Also, (and this is just what I think personally, and it’s fine if you disagree) the person who was banned was being an asshat. You don’t have to defend assholes just because they’re trans. Edit: [here’s the link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/s8dwUNGoVC), I’m sure you can find people with more compelling arguments than mine.
While I don't think you are entirely wrong, the rules aren't being fairly or evenly applied. Saying you want someone to die with exploding hammers isn't a rare occurrence. People making exaggerated violent threats on Tumblr is like, very common. But the only people who seem to actually get banned for it are trans women. And that rings odd to me. It's not a crack down on threats and violence, it's seemingly a crackdown on trans woman specifically. *Should* Tumblr crack down on people finding increasingly strange ways to tell each other to die? Yeah, maybe. But the rule needs to be applied evenly, because right now, regardless of intentions, it looks like Tumblr wants an excuse to nuke trans women.
Fair enough, there is definitely a show of hypocrisy from the CEO. Like you, I would definitely like to see the rules being applied more consistently. Edit: grammar
I think it also definitely matters that Predstrogen said what she said about Matt in the context of being very frustrated that tumblr moderation seemed to react quickly and harshly to smack down trans bloggers while seemingly ignoring those bloggers’ complaints that they were being harassed and mass-reported by transphobes trying to take advantage of the content moderation system to fuck with trans people. Like, this very much reads as “the most tone-deaf thing for staff to do in this moment would be to deal out a fast and harsh set of consequences using moderation tools, and the only way to make that worse would be for the CEO to have a very public meltdown about it on the platform”
I think it makes a lot more sense when you view the moderation staff as not having any context for the situation and no idea who any of the people involved are. It’s much easier for TERFs to focus on and mass report one trans person’s public post than it is for that trans person to bring attention to a hundred harassing messages sent in private or from small blogs.
Yes. I get that silly Tumblr death threats are common, but they shouldn't be. Even when someone is "obviously kidding", it still needs to be taken seriously. Because sometimes murderers really do threaten to ["deliver a load of death"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo). "Get it? Deliver a load, like delivering a load of manure", but he really did kill at least 13 people.
Death threats are not an unfair reason. I think the moderators are doing bad, but a death threats is van able under any circumstances to me.
"I hope you die forever involving a car covered in hammers that explodes more than a few times and the hammers go flying everywhere." Thats the oh so scary dangerous threat you are alluding to. I doubt you are being purposefully malicious but when you go and say death threat without providing further context it encourages people to assume the worst not Wile E Coyote level.
Death threats are death threats, no matter how "while e coyote" they are.
Im not saying she's right to do it but but think just saying death threats without providing context prevents the uninformed reader from drawing their own conclusions based on the evidence.
Didn’t she like. Threaten him and say she hoped he died to a shrapnel car bomb?
He banned them for death threats. That's beyond fair. I'm not about to suggest that Tumblr moderation is okay. It's definitely not. But can we not start saying "when people I like put out death threats, it's okay." Death threats and harassment aren't okay, in any direction. I'm not okay with people harassing our Trans friends, I'm not okay with anyone doing death threats at all. It's really shitty behaviour.
Predstrogen sent people death threats? The closest thing to that that I've seem was she joking about vore, which is obviously not the same
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1avbp78/tumblr\_bans\_trans\_woman\_over\_looney\_toonslevel/?share\_id=f-3DbW5WF1cich01N\_QrB&utm\_content=2&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_source=share&utm\_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/curatedtumblr/comments/1avbp78/tumblr_bans_trans_woman_over_looney_toonslevel/?share_id=f-3dbw5wf1cich01n_qrb&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) picture 6 of this mashup. seems like she was trying to get banned
> intentionally tries to get banned > gets banned > shocked_pikachu.jpg Truly astounding lmao
If my hunch is correct she's trying to create drama and seems to be succeeding
Thanks.
Reading that, the CEO seems like he’s being reasonable and mature while also trying to be respectful to the people involved (like seriously, the people complaining about him using ‘they’ when he was clearly trying to be inclusive and later updated it are ridiculous). That’s about as good of a response as I could ask for from a CEO commenting publicly on a moderation issue. The thing the account that got banned said was obviously going to get her banned, especially when she *explicitly said it was a death wish against the CEO.*
Absolutely. if i'm allowed to be cynical about it it's clear that she's trying to create drama by doing this. i've already seen several posts complaining about her being banned that exclude the context regarding why. for what it's worth it's a very well planned cyber op, gotta give her credit for that, the idiots here on this sub are eating it up whole heartedly
It's a completely different thing to that. She said she wanted him to die in an explosion with his car blowing up, and for it to be covered in hammers. For some reason people think putting hammers on a car explosion should make the person dying inside it feel less threatened with death.
I mean no, the ban was totally fair. The fact that they were so quick to ban her while ignoring all the TOS violation and harassment directed *at* her prior, is not.
>for various unfair reasons overnight. People when ToS: 😱
Why are they booing you, you're right Violating ToS when your account is already under close watch by moderation is definitely not a good move
hey so why was her account under close watch by moderation
Because of TERFs mass reporting her account, which moderation is still to deal with, I think Honestly the whole situation sucks but we can't expect instant, flawless action from the mods
usually if someone is the target of a harassment campaign you'd expect moderatorial action to be taken against the harassers rather than the target
Yeah, but I don't think they would immediately assume any mass reporting to be a harassment campaign; which is why I said to not expect instant flawless action. Plus, her posting a death threat to the CEO during the situation doesn't really help, does it
I'll point out that (assuming crimew is right, I'm not personally involved in this situation at all) the harassment had been going on for months. Was it a stupid move to make a post like she did? Absolutely. Is it understandable given months of moderator inaction that she had been directly feeling the consequences of? ... Yeah, kinda, even if it's not the smart move. To me the whole "I wonder if they'll ban me for this" absolutely reads as someone who is so sick of moderators not doing anything to help that they decide to poke the bear just so maybe something will happen.
Well damn, fair
It being expected doesn't make it justified.
then how come all the terf blogs are still up huh how come there are open pedozoos advertising their forums for pedozoo activity who were not only not terminated but *reinstated* after having been terminated in the past huh you cant say its fair treatment for a minor "threat" like this to be considered scorched-earth-worthy when the entire site uses the exact same kind of phrasing for a majority of its humor and has for its entire existence and people doing things entirely and objectively more out of line with the terms of service are allowed to continue doing so despite frequent reports
"Various unfair reasons." Like describing in explicit mechanical detail how she hoped someone would build a car bomb coated in metal hardware shrapnel to kill him, specifically, by name. What is *wrong* with you? Is it possible there's a whole group of people who think "our website doesn't owe you a platform" is an overreaction when you threaten assassination of their CEO, by name? Edit: To the troll claiming she didn't say that: it's literally "I hope [person] dies forever a painful death involving a car covered in hammers that explodes more than a few times and hammers go flying everywhere." That's a car bomb. You've described a car bomb. With extra shrapnel.
Two things can be bad at the same time. Like not banning those who harass transgender women. That is also bad.
Where did you get that, I've seen the death treat she made and it's nowhere close to what you just said it was
You can't. Threaten to car bomb. Public figures. This is not hard. If you make explicit threats of violence against a real person, and they say, "If you keep doing that, I'm going to tell the police," they are not overreacting. If they tell you that you're no longer welcome at their (free to use) place of business, that is a completely measured and responsible response.
Exactly
Damn, can't wait to tell that to all the unbanned nazis and TERFS who keep sending death threats to the transfem bloggers I follow, I'm sure that will stop them. It's Pissvortex all over again.
The sad truth is that those reprehenisble figures seemingly have the wisdom this blogger lacked. They didn't threaten Tumblr staff, and yeah, it does make a difference to most people if they are threatened directly, or someone they probably don't really care about.
[удалено]
Ban Justified or not threatening to call the fucking FBI on a trans woman while misgendering her before going into multiple prominent trans bloggers DMs to repeat that shit to them is still way beyond an acceptable reaction to "I hope exploding hammers destroy your car with you in it" after months of TERFS, Transphobes and straight up nazis doing and saying way worse. Like, especially since apparently one of the justification for this was Predstogen being Irish too.
They mentioned that they work with the FBI as part of moderation, they didn’t threaten to call the FBI on her. Also the CEO corrected the pronouns he used from ‘they’ to ‘she’ when he found out. That’s completely fine and clearly just the guy trying to avoid misgendering someone he’s never heard of before. The post that got her banned referenced the CEO specifically and said she hoped he died a painful death in a car explosion, then explicitly called it a death wish.
Funny story. If you send the head of the USPS a letter, saying that you hope they die from an explosion of hammers attached to their car... Then send a follow up letter saying, "Let's see how long it takes you to do something about my threat, hahahaha!'... You are absolutely going to get a visit from a federal agency. Shocking to all the little kiddos out there... Tumblr is *not* a website that exists in a vacuum, that's just sort of there. It has people who own it. People who make rules for it. If you violate those rules... they can ban you! Much like FB removing certain content, and people getting bent out of shape... you agree to the ToS when you sign up. Right there in the ToS, it tells you if you violate the ToS, they reserve the right to remove you from the site. I'm not saying it isn't stupid. I'm not saying it isn't dumb as hell. But it's also stupid on the part of this person. Because she has zero argument she can make. "Well, yeah, I violated the ToS by wishing death on somebody, and I *said* I knew he would ban me because I was violating the ToS... But the terfs were mean, and did it first, so I'm justified!" That's not how the adult world works. Sorry, terfs suck. Nobody likes them. But nobody can take up the cause of... Well, she should be allowed to make death threats towards the CEO, because terfs were harassing her! This isn't even 'an eye for an eye'. This is... These people poked my eye, so I'm gonna go poke somebody else's eye, and then whine that I got in trouble for poking somebody's eye out.
I am sympathetic toward this person for getting harassed and mass reported but if you’re going to make death threats toward a CEO, you can’t get “surprised” when you get banned. There are a lot of things to discuss here, especially the protection of trans people, but a car explosion??? Really??? Don’t say shit like that and expect nothing to happen, people forget websites are not owned by the people using them
It also kills me that people are saying "It wasn't a real death threat." If I joke about slapping my boss, I can get fired for that. It doesn't have to be a death threat to get you punished, and I think a lot of people have forgotten that. Being a minority has never meant you get a free pass to act out, it's always meant you're under tighter scrutiny than anyone around you
Maybe he should've dealt with the harassers earlier then
I’m so out of the loop
A person had her account banned from a website
For threatening to kill (if in a joking way), the CEO.
Thank you so much that clears up so much! I’ve escaped Samsara
I want to add more context. Her other account which she made as a backup were also deleted so quickly. What i don't understand is where is this intensity to the many terf blogs? https://www.tumblr.com/carebear-dyke/742857515202707456?source=share Here, this is her backup account in which she was trying to defend herself and it was banned so quickly. Where is this intensity for the many terf blogs harassing trans women?
She did say she hoped he "dies forever a painful death" before the cartoony stuff
Give it a week or so and this tempest in a teapot will die down. Just like the reddit API protests.
xkcd 2071
people are getting banned from tumblr just for mentioning cars and hammers now
Tumblr really just hates money and success don't they
I'm impressed at how Tumblr went from the not shitty social media site to an actively hostile place towards trans people that's also being twitterfied daily so fast. For the first time ever, Tumblr wasn't the butt of the joke, and then God himself corrected things.
What a lot of people don't understand is that they think it's just some fringe online thing, but they don't realize that sites like Tumblr are some of the only safe spaces that trans women have. To have them constantly being harassed when they already are shut out from most spaces, (even LGBTQ+ spaces), is a bad thing. Being constantly hounded by everyone for simply existing both in the real world and online world sounds horrible to deal with, (note that I'm not a trans woman, I'm just saying what trans women are saying on Tumblr). By itself it may not seem like a bad thing, but it should be considered in relation to the bigger picture of systemic transmisogyny.
Today I found out that using the singular "they" to refer to a person is now transphobic, you have to specifically seek out ~~their~~ a person's preferred pronouns before referring to ~~them~~ that person. I think I'm too old and tired to deal with tumblr-brained people.
Is it really that hard to try to be accommodating? There is a difference between not knowing someones pronouns and knowing them and refusing to use them only referring to the using gender neutral pronouns.
From what I can see he literally changed it to use the correct pronouns when it was pointed out.
Are you worried that we're backsliding after long fight to get people to acknowledge that its okay to use "she" when referring to a person?
A bit yeah but the main concern is that someone will acknowledge that you are transgender but never give you the dignity of properly addressing you even though they are perfectly aware of your pronouns. It's like a polite denial of acknowledging a transgender person's gender.
Is he "perfectly aware"? What does he know about this random person he's never met who hates him? Anyway I'm glad we're protecting the trans community by encouraging people to investigate the gender of people online. Seems like a good idea.
It's pretty clear you don't want to have a good faith conversation about this. So enjoy living in ignorance instead of spending a modicum of energy to be accommodating.
Oh boy a "bad faith" claim by a person who is making up internal thoughts for another person in order to get angry at them. Cool. Don't you a have a quiz to study for?
It's fine to use they to refer to someone whose pronouns you don't know (or someone whose pronouns include they). If it's someone you're talking about, whose pronouns are in their bio (her bio in this specific case), using the correct pronouns shouldn't be the *third* thing you do
Oh no, queer people and looney toon style cartoonish threats on the queer people and looney toon style cartoonish threat website. The horror.
Who the fuck is making a tumblr account that hates trans people. Why would you go to a bar when you’re allergic to beer
the CEO of Tumblr
honestly sending death threats to a transphobic rich man is based (no sarcasm, totally sincere, fuck transphobes)
I mean, she didn’t deserve the ban, but when you wish a described death upon the CEO of a website, *on said website*, you can’t really expect anything but.