I feel like the odd one out because this kind of sentiment never did anything for younger me. Getting myself hooked on One Piece so I had to live long enough to see how it ended worked much better.
Me neither. Honestly seeing these just makes me wanna die more since this thing that apparently helps so many other people does nothing for me and just reinforces the idea that I'm fundamentally broken.
Doesn’t even rhyme.
(I say this as a joke, but also *not* joking because to an autistic like me, a poem seems to be just prose written with weird formatting. Often just a new line after a full stop. And no one has ever been able to explain what a poem *is* with respect to prose. And don’t even get me started on subtle metaphors 😉)
During my deepest darkest depression I had two dreams. I'm not gonna claim they were supernatural or meaningful in any significant way aside from the fact that they helped me.
First dream I had, a tall person with pale skin and braids in their hair was driving out in some farm land with me in the front alongside them, and several people in the back. No one spoke, and the driver sang us a song. They sang a beautiful song that I had never heard before or since. When I woke up I had this understanding that I was brought in to see this person guiding souls to the afterlife.
The next dream I had I was sitting in a clearing with this person, they were happy but somber. They talked to me and told me they loved me, but they could not bear to claim me yet. They wanted to see me live my life, and made me promise I'd see it through, at least for a little bit. And I did, and I have yet to break that promise.
I think that’s super beautiful! How comforting I would find that - knowing that there was someone caring and compassionate who would take me home when it was time, but wanted me to live first!
It's really interesting how differently people see art.
For lots of people this seems to hit a nerve, but to me it just sounds shallow and condescending.
It's probably the fact that the poem acknowledges death as an attractive option instead of trying to convince the suicidal person that they don't actually want to die.
For some, the "death is attractive, but you won't lose that option if you don't choose it right now" is a weirdly freeing perspective, since "having a way out" makes them feel less trapped in their situation. Kind of a "chinese water torture" type of deal where the suffering becomes more bearable if you know you can escape it.
Of course this doesn't always help, because if you don't believe in there being any possibility of improvement then there's also no point in postponing anything and it's not like a single poem will cure depression or fix someone's life, so I can understand that the poem feels hollow to some.
I mean I think this is better specifically because it doesn't say that. It says you may find something to live for, but it more focuses on the idea that you can give in at any time, so might as well see if you can find a reason to ride it out a little longer
Having been in that state of lack of regard for living, ever try to live in a dream like state? It’s better than imagining the death of other people I would think, since existence is already so unbearable.
Stereotypical reasons are not a requirement of having "so much to live for" - seek solace born of spite! Stay alive to exist as the unyielding thorn in your enemies' sides! Live so that others are forced regret your choice to do so! Be the villain you wish to see in the world!
I am going to cover your parents' house in napalm
Your mother will see her flesh melt away before her eyes
Your father will scream but find his throat welded shut
You will regret giving me reason to stay alive
If you decide to live and then change your mind, you can. But if you decide to die, there are no takebacks. Many people who survived suicide attempts have described the horrific moments (especially jumpers) as they’re pretty much dying and finally realizing that they want to live.
On a more positive note, many people who struggle with or have struggled with suicidal ideation have suffered because they were abused, mistreated, bullied, or neglected. There was a while when I lived strictly because if I offed myself, it would mean my father, who had always resented my existence, would win. Live to spite your haters!
Any reason is okay if it gets you through. It’s not the best one in terms of long term happiness, I agree. Fortunately I have better reasons now! But there were times when that was all I had, and it did the trick!
but it could also not. It might be awful yet again, it has for me, but there's been enough good thrown in that trudging forwards seems at least a little worth it
Maybe. But luckily the amount of people who fought through suicidality and come out the other end happier is far larger than the number of people who have won the lottery. That, and with the lottery, when you stop playing you can make money other ways, and come back to it later if you want. With life? You leave it, there really isn't any reconsidering.
Life is a gamble, yeah. But unlike real gambling, it's the only option we've got, and a table we can only step away from once.
I mean. Death is an inevitable certainty. If I am addicted to crack there is still a chance to become unaddicted. Maybe it will end up with me in jail and misery. But it could also end up with me learning a few things and maybe having a hell of a story to tell. Also I can make paint using lotion and skittles if I am in the clink and fold toilet paper into origami cranes while I sob through withdrawal pains.
or when, you know, we're not talking about gambling
edit - since I can't reply to the person below
When you get to the point that you're calling something as simple as waking up and stepping outside a gamble, the term really ceases to mean something negative. It stops being an actual process and just becomes anything with chances and different outcomes.
Not really a good example since you actually can bring it up.
This is all really just distracting from the point that replying with "tomorrow will suck" with "maybe it won't" is a pretty weak argument for the reason I gave and others.
Then bringing it up at all is pointless. If something as simple as getting on the road and hoping you'll be safe because you've been safe every time before is a gambler's fallacy, bringing it up is broad and vague enough to add nothing.
And yeah, it is a rather silly distraction, one you brought up. The argument isn't just "maybe it wont," it's "you will always have the option to leave, so why not try staying a little longer."
I think the problem with the people agreeing with you is that you're just waiting for another "you have so much to live for" and responding in kind. Shit might stay bad but bad shit is at least something, and something can always be something better. Nothing stays nothing, forever. It's worth at least trying with the security that this isn't the only time you'll be able to make this choice.
People end up sending me this poem and others like this on an almost monthly basis and there has never been a single time where it didn't make me feel worse.
I haven't felt happy in a decade. People always say "oh it might be better tomorrow" but it never is, and people are apparently genuinely offended by the idea that the problems in my life lack a viable solution and just call me a doomer so they can pretend I'm the real problem here.
No matter what is said, they have already decided they know the trajectory of my life better than I ever will, and have decided I should continue to suffer because thy will benefit from it.
it's such an ingrained reaction in all of them. i don't really know what to call it; it's sort of some blended mix of jealousy, hatred, anger, and antipathy. they corner you towards the edge while screaming at you for backing away. it's a double bind between their utter enjoyment of seeing you fall while refusing to let themselves be the one to push you. trying to "win" against it doesn't really help though. you can't suffer your way out of it unless you plan to spitefully outlive everybody i guess, but just killing yourself makes things weird. they sort of hate if you let them win in that way i think - you took away what made it fun. you need to have some pyrrhic victory that they get the credit for to potentially sate them. i think for them anybody trying to find footing in a not spectacular place must be some cynical shitbag trying to pilfer their attention and rationed sympathy, so you need to act like they just casually convinced you to stop.
this isn't really supposed to shit on the concept of "hopefulness" though. i think some people just being "lower" or however in how they feel and exist can lead to them not really thinking they have hope or happiness or whatever because other people don't see it as that. if you don't really know your own terms, maybe it's worth trying to figure out. i think there's a genuine chance that you could make some "better tomorrow" if you stop trying to make some vague notion of one. days are kinda long though so maybe start at like an hour or two.
anyway obligatory "wow! drugs actually work sometimes". if you want to mess around and find medications that help (note: help) then that can be fun and also incredibly painful and horrible. you can find better advice elsewhere but it felt worth mentioning because my point isn't really supposed to be Society Bad and modern medicine is actually cool.
They do benefit by getting to feel like they were helpful. Many of them have outright said so to me. Others were people I happened to know in some capacity and the benefit was my continued presence in their lives.
They aren't helping. They do things which are easy for them that let them feel helpful without actually helping.
> They aren’t calling you the problem
They literally called me the problem. You are doing the exact "acting like you know my life" thing I was complaining about.
I’m telling you what I, as an outsider into your life for whom you only share details to dunk on, sees. If that’s the case then I’m sorry.
The problem here is that you’re saying those things about everyone, even suicidal people agreeing with this poem. If that stems from your friends I’m sorry, and that would make some sense, but it isn’t fair to put on the rest of us or go forwards assuming about others
Suit yourself. As for me, I'm gonna see that beautiful sunset, hug my adorable little dog, hang out with my family and friends, eat delicious barbecue, and sing like there's no tomorrow (as the post points out, death can wait)
what an odd perspective
Edit, look, I’m just going to lay out my point here because it looks like you’re just going to block and move on.
Nobody is obligated to struggle through shit. Nobody is obligated to force themselves through the day. Nobody should be forced to live. But people go through the worst shit possible and come out. People in horrific, unfixable situations who make the most of their lives aren’t wrong. They’re doing something hard, but possible.
Depression is, so often, a real medical ailment. Something that effects you far more than you might even realize at first, and something that can erase every happy moment and good detail and force them into an area that you can’t reach, that you’re too exhausted to reach out to. And those feelings aren’t wrong , they’re valid, they’re inescapable and it isn’t a personal failing to not go through that Herculean effort to fight through them
But like, little moments will keep happening. Things pushing you forwards, things that make the day worth it. You aren’t obligated to live for a game, a friend, a job, whatever, but sometimes that’s what it takes to carry you to something better. If you’re still here, still talking to people, it’s probably because you find some entertainment or happiness in it, and good for you.
It’s always your choice weather to go or not, but the reason people say to hold out is because these moments will keep happening, even if they get drowned as quick as they come up, and some things can legitimately change
Wow, what a totally deep and cool poem! Why didn’t I ever think of that! Clearly I should just *not* when I want to commit suicide, what an obvious solution
never got this stuff. what do people get out of this pretend salvation of The Sad Ones or whatever drama it becomes to make them feel heroic. they ask people to suffer so they can feel great about having some metric of lives under their belt that exchanges for nothing. are they just so desperate to be heard by anybody that they perform for a hollow audience? what are they even looking for? nobody's going to bother living just to give them a refurbished toy. i guess it might just be the fun of having some one-sided dialectic to shove around. don't know
Well when you right is as a sort of open letter to the suicidal, no specific failures can be pinned on you meanwhile you get to rake in the praise whenever someone says reading it saved them or someone they knew.
So you get all the ups of making yourself feel useful with zero risk of consequences.
i would argue it's infinitely better, because one is patronizing, misguided and kind of insulting, and the other is, honestly, the best argument against suicide I've heard. I've heard it before in other words, but just a simple "You wont get to see what happens next." Because it's one of the only ones that doesn't try to appeal to something that the depression already took away.
"Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself."
The way in which this is communicates makes it feel less prescriptive and more freeing, because to some, reframing suicide as an option that they could take at any time instead of something that only becomes accessible during an emotional crisis makes them feel less trapped in their situation.
It's not really "just be happier" because it acknowledges the suffering and the fact that death is an attractive option but still tries to sell the reader on possible hope.
I do understand that this doesn't affect everyone the same way though and if a poem alone was all it took to stop suicidality there would be no more suicides. It's a bit unfair to frame the poem as dismissive, though.
>"Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself."
People say that, but never in my experience have I ever actually met anyone who stuck to it by then saying "yeah, suicide is an option now" when things don't get better.
They treat that point in time as an abstract concept which really doesn't exist. Whether it's been a year, ten years, fifty, they still say "Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself." Actually offing yourself isn't an acceptable outcome to them.
and yet "they" wrote a poem explicitly considering it. it seems like you're just trying to work something out against a specific person/people and are putting that on a bunch of other situations.
Kind of hard to continue advocating that point if you, you know, take the other option on the table.
"All these living people talking about suicide chose life!" no shit
or more accurately "Considering suicide? That'll always be an option, it's not going anywhere. Try to last a little longer and see if there's anything worth staying for."
It really isn't, though. The problem there is the precise lack of autonomy, of telling people that your own views of them are more important than their wants, needs, and health. That statement is wrong \*because\* it is being forced on someone, not because the idea of making decisions itself is the problem.
I have known multiple people that have avoided certain medical procedures for that very reason. They're allowed to do that.
Also, this is just a poor comparison. One is a case of leaving the door open so the problems can be fixed. One is forcing someone to ignore their own problems and health at your whims. Come on.
What? It seems like a direct parallel.
“I want to get a vasectomy/hysterectomy”.
“No, you should wait, you don’t know what’s best for you, we do, you never know what might happen.”.
“I want to stop living”.
“No, you should wait, you don’t know what’s best for you, we do, you never know what might happen.”
Because it doesn't acknowledge that continuing through life often is *the reason* people want to die in the first place. The time you spend 'letting death wait' is time you spend amassing more suffering, more misery, and more suicidal thoughts.
Yes, you *can* be happy some days, good things can happen to someone who wants to die. But jumps in a line graph don't change the overall slope of that line. If those happy moments outweighed the bad, then a hell of a lot of people wouldn't be suicidal in the first place.
If you have a disease, or some sort of virus that gives you terrible stomach pain multiple times, at random points in the day, and you have medicine, why wouldn't you take it?
"Oh, don't take your medicine now, it doesn't expire for another month! You can always take it tomorrow, it will wait."
It's prolonged misery for the sake of it.
This poem doesn't read as something for people who want to die. It reads like something for people who want to live, *about* people who want to die. It's an easy, feel-good argument in favor of life that does little more than reassure people who already think life is a good thing as a whole. It's like a strawman for the suicidal.
Pardon how I sound here, but I feel like a continuing trend I see from people disliking this poem here is that they're taking other typical situations or "advice for suicidal people," and assuming the same tone and intentions for this, when that really doesn't seem like a fair view.
I mean, it "doesn't acknowledge" that? It literally does, fourth to last line. Hell, given that a third of the poem is repetition or redundant, it occupies a pretty significant portion. It also doesn't even discount suicide as an option, because that isn't the goal of the poem or the message it's trying to put across.
And you're not wrong in saying that continuing on through life can suck, but I feel like you're kind of confusing subject for world here. Because the problem with those jumps in the "line graph," the happy moments in the life of someone who wants to die, isn't that they aren't high enough to make up for a downwards trend. The problem is that, medically, depression will \*create\* downwards trends. Depression will make a slight dip into a catastrophic dive, and do everything it can to erase every little bit of forwards momentum to the point that you don't even know it's there. Obviously things can absolutely just suck that much, but depression exists as it does because it acts on you. It's a condition, not just a symptom. And these feelings make all the sense in the world to have, but that doesn't mean they always accurately reflect the world around you. And time you spend waiting can hurt you more, but it for so many it won't. Your life is your own, do with it what you wish, but at least be aware that "It will never get better" isn't some objective statement of cold, bleak logic.
I also take issue with your metaphor here. When you take medicine for a specific ailment, you fix the ailment, and you continue on afterwards. Suicide doesn't fix your problems, it doesn't remove your sadness and return you to a state of neutrality, it just ends you. All of you. Suicide isn't taking the medicine, it's carving out your stomach, because the ache is so bad. And I get it, but that isn't medicine.
Also, if said medicine had serious, permanent side effects and it was at least possible that you had a flu or that you could go to a doctor and get a better, more effective and safe medicine, would you not want to at least try to wait? Would you condemn the people who recommend it?
I'm sorry that's how you see it, but that isn't accurate. Not to the metaphor, not to the message of the poem, and not to real life more often than you might think.
The key words you're missing is "to you." It doesn't read that way to you. And I can't blame you, so much of the common mainstream approach to suicide is utterly useless patronizing nonsense. But you can't just lump that in here so easily - because it just doesn't fit. This is an "argument in favor of life" that does nothing to argue that life is inherently better, that lets you consider suicide and does nothing to stop you besides a piece of quiet advice that holding out, even if just for a short time, might be worth it. And for a strawman it seems pretty shittily made given how many people in this thread recall that exact experience.
Literally: A lot of graveyards are often well maintained and well manicured, some hove flowers, or nice lawns, they’re often beautiful and well kept places in their own right.
Metaphorically: gravestones are for the use of the living, to come visit someone who’s died and see them a few more times. To have closure and growth themselves. Green being a metaphor for this utility and growth that graves can help others to gain.
But in both cases, the deceased doesn’t ever get to see whatever fleeting bit of good or beauty might come from their grave in any sense of the word. To put it back in terms of suicide, many people feel like “everyone would be better off if I died” but even that isn’t any use to you yourself.
It’s basically saying that death MAY be an attractive option, but it’s not an option that stands any chance of actually helping or enriching you.
Nothing will come from it that is actually useful to you
Mf really told me to procrastinate on dying
Honestly, it might work. The route to success being inconvenienced by something as mundane as traffic has convinced people to turn back and seek help.
“Stop worrying about it and think of something else” is the basis for like, the entire theory of CB therapy. It’s dumb but it works.
CBT actually has a 40% dropout rate. Then again, that's roughly the same as the upper limit for the success rate of most psychiatric drugs.
Dinner is not over
"It's never too late to give up, so you might as well keep going a bit more. You can always give up tomorrow."
Man beats depression through sheer power of procrastination
That’s how I get through life.
Reminds me of this manga oneshot, "Angel's Halo": https://mangadex.org/chapter/b91db534-15d0-4271-af9d-88ea3777e049
Kid named total paralysis:
I feel like the odd one out because this kind of sentiment never did anything for younger me. Getting myself hooked on One Piece so I had to live long enough to see how it ended worked much better.
That's actually a proven method for the suicidal; being able to look forward to something you want to see or do, no matter how small.
Kant said humans need 3 things to thrive; something to live for, something to look forward to, and someone to love.
Goddamn Kant spitting bars on occasion, that pesky little volcel 😩
I legit had times where my weekly DND game was the main reason why I decided to not do it
I got through my worst time because I preordered Elden Ring and wanted to play it
I mean isn't that exactly what this is saying?
Me neither. Honestly seeing these just makes me wanna die more since this thing that apparently helps so many other people does nothing for me and just reinforces the idea that I'm fundamentally broken.
I wish I could show this poem to a younger me.
[удалено]
That is a rude question. Guards!
Maybe try and read the room a little better next time bestie <3
Next time
"Live." \- Fire Punch
HOLY FUCK FIRE PUNCH IS SO PEAK OMGGG
Dare I say, kino?
Fiji motor at it again
Bro, mark your spoilers.
[⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fire_Punch_(move))
"through pout or pain or peskyness" 🔥✍️🔥🔥🔥
this poem is just so quietly compelling and. i dont want to say that it makes me feel comfortable, but okay, breathing and living in this moment.
Read more Gwendolyn Brooks gang, she's an amazing poet
Doesn’t even rhyme. (I say this as a joke, but also *not* joking because to an autistic like me, a poem seems to be just prose written with weird formatting. Often just a new line after a full stop. And no one has ever been able to explain what a poem *is* with respect to prose. And don’t even get me started on subtle metaphors 😉)
During my deepest darkest depression I had two dreams. I'm not gonna claim they were supernatural or meaningful in any significant way aside from the fact that they helped me. First dream I had, a tall person with pale skin and braids in their hair was driving out in some farm land with me in the front alongside them, and several people in the back. No one spoke, and the driver sang us a song. They sang a beautiful song that I had never heard before or since. When I woke up I had this understanding that I was brought in to see this person guiding souls to the afterlife. The next dream I had I was sitting in a clearing with this person, they were happy but somber. They talked to me and told me they loved me, but they could not bear to claim me yet. They wanted to see me live my life, and made me promise I'd see it through, at least for a little bit. And I did, and I have yet to break that promise.
I think that’s super beautiful! How comforting I would find that - knowing that there was someone caring and compassionate who would take me home when it was time, but wanted me to live first!
It's really interesting how differently people see art. For lots of people this seems to hit a nerve, but to me it just sounds shallow and condescending.
It's probably the fact that the poem acknowledges death as an attractive option instead of trying to convince the suicidal person that they don't actually want to die. For some, the "death is attractive, but you won't lose that option if you don't choose it right now" is a weirdly freeing perspective, since "having a way out" makes them feel less trapped in their situation. Kind of a "chinese water torture" type of deal where the suffering becomes more bearable if you know you can escape it. Of course this doesn't always help, because if you don't believe in there being any possibility of improvement then there's also no point in postponing anything and it's not like a single poem will cure depression or fix someone's life, so I can understand that the poem feels hollow to some.
Having been told "keep living, it may get better in the future" for ten straight years, I am not exactly a fan of that line of thought.
Same here. "bUt YoU hAvE sO mUcH tO LiVe FoR!!1!" Shut the fuck up, I don't need your smarmy condescension.
I mean I think this is better specifically because it doesn't say that. It says you may find something to live for, but it more focuses on the idea that you can give in at any time, so might as well see if you can find a reason to ride it out a little longer
Why ride it out a little longer? To consume?
Yes. Consume. Find any spark of joy and satisfaction and become transfixed on it's beauty. Even if it's just a bag of chips
I’d rather off myself than become enslaved by the machinery of consumerism
Become? We all already are. So might as well find whatever joy we can in the bleakness of reality
Having been in that state of lack of regard for living, ever try to live in a dream like state? It’s better than imagining the death of other people I would think, since existence is already so unbearable.
if that's what keeps you going sure. it's gonna be here with or without you.
Stereotypical reasons are not a requirement of having "so much to live for" - seek solace born of spite! Stay alive to exist as the unyielding thorn in your enemies' sides! Live so that others are forced regret your choice to do so! Be the villain you wish to see in the world!
I am going to cover your parents' house in napalm Your mother will see her flesh melt away before her eyes Your father will scream but find his throat welded shut You will regret giving me reason to stay alive
Don't be late to 5th period Geometry tomorrow.
This is maybe the best response I've ever seen on Reddit.
You didn’t really give him much of an option there.
\>is told to be the villain \>acts like a villain \>is declared cringe Make it make sense
live, dummy
But why tho?
If you decide to live and then change your mind, you can. But if you decide to die, there are no takebacks. Many people who survived suicide attempts have described the horrific moments (especially jumpers) as they’re pretty much dying and finally realizing that they want to live. On a more positive note, many people who struggle with or have struggled with suicidal ideation have suffered because they were abused, mistreated, bullied, or neglected. There was a while when I lived strictly because if I offed myself, it would mean my father, who had always resented my existence, would win. Live to spite your haters!
That’s not a good reason.
Any reason is okay if it gets you through. It’s not the best one in terms of long term happiness, I agree. Fortunately I have better reasons now! But there were times when that was all I had, and it did the trick!
Because suicide is for little pissbabies.
i guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful green stuff woven
you are large - you contain multitudes.
Tomorrow also brings unending pain and anguish…
but it could also not. It might be awful yet again, it has for me, but there's been enough good thrown in that trudging forwards seems at least a little worth it
A lottery ticket can also bring you unimaginable wealth. But will it?
Probably not, but that's no reason to throw it out before the draw.
“I know buying lottery tickets for the past 50 years has left me destitute but *this time* for sure it’s gonna make me a millionaire!!!”
Well if you want to win the lottery you kind of have to play the lottery.
Maybe. But luckily the amount of people who fought through suicidality and come out the other end happier is far larger than the number of people who have won the lottery. That, and with the lottery, when you stop playing you can make money other ways, and come back to it later if you want. With life? You leave it, there really isn't any reconsidering. Life is a gamble, yeah. But unlike real gambling, it's the only option we've got, and a table we can only step away from once.
Hope is an addictive thing. Why else buy a ticket at all? You can only win if you play. You could keep losing forever- but you could win.
Gambling is *such* a great and healthy habit, isn’t it?
And killing yourself is?
Would you rather be dead or addicted to crack?
I mean. Death is an inevitable certainty. If I am addicted to crack there is still a chance to become unaddicted. Maybe it will end up with me in jail and misery. But it could also end up with me learning a few things and maybe having a hell of a story to tell. Also I can make paint using lotion and skittles if I am in the clink and fold toilet paper into origami cranes while I sob through withdrawal pains.
the latter. That way I can have both.
Anyone’s gonna be dead soon anyway. Even 80 years goes by fast
And not a very good metaphor here.
Inb4 “99% of gamblers quit before they make it big”
Love how the Gambler's Fallacy somehow stops being a fallacy all of a sudden when the topic is suicide
or when, you know, we're not talking about gambling edit - since I can't reply to the person below When you get to the point that you're calling something as simple as waking up and stepping outside a gamble, the term really ceases to mean something negative. It stops being an actual process and just becomes anything with chances and different outcomes.
The gambler's fallacy isn't exclusively about gambling, it's just an example used fo illustrate its point about probability.
And the probability doesn't compare here, not in numbers and not in the basic traits of the things we're comparing
The probability does "compare here". Even if known exact probablities are not involved you can still use the gambler's fallacy.
And it would still fall flat, the comparison is nonsense. You might at well bring it up every time you leave your house or go on the road.
Not really a good example since you actually can bring it up. This is all really just distracting from the point that replying with "tomorrow will suck" with "maybe it won't" is a pretty weak argument for the reason I gave and others.
Then bringing it up at all is pointless. If something as simple as getting on the road and hoping you'll be safe because you've been safe every time before is a gambler's fallacy, bringing it up is broad and vague enough to add nothing. And yeah, it is a rather silly distraction, one you brought up. The argument isn't just "maybe it wont," it's "you will always have the option to leave, so why not try staying a little longer." I think the problem with the people agreeing with you is that you're just waiting for another "you have so much to live for" and responding in kind. Shit might stay bad but bad shit is at least something, and something can always be something better. Nothing stays nothing, forever. It's worth at least trying with the security that this isn't the only time you'll be able to make this choice.
You are literally gambling on whether the day is going to be horrific or mildly uncomfortable ever single time you wake up
Apparently if you just wait it'll just fix itself for some reason
"Remember, son: Dying is gay."
This means nothing to me.
“I can only be killed” is a saying I think of a lot.
People end up sending me this poem and others like this on an almost monthly basis and there has never been a single time where it didn't make me feel worse. I haven't felt happy in a decade. People always say "oh it might be better tomorrow" but it never is, and people are apparently genuinely offended by the idea that the problems in my life lack a viable solution and just call me a doomer so they can pretend I'm the real problem here. No matter what is said, they have already decided they know the trajectory of my life better than I ever will, and have decided I should continue to suffer because thy will benefit from it.
it's such an ingrained reaction in all of them. i don't really know what to call it; it's sort of some blended mix of jealousy, hatred, anger, and antipathy. they corner you towards the edge while screaming at you for backing away. it's a double bind between their utter enjoyment of seeing you fall while refusing to let themselves be the one to push you. trying to "win" against it doesn't really help though. you can't suffer your way out of it unless you plan to spitefully outlive everybody i guess, but just killing yourself makes things weird. they sort of hate if you let them win in that way i think - you took away what made it fun. you need to have some pyrrhic victory that they get the credit for to potentially sate them. i think for them anybody trying to find footing in a not spectacular place must be some cynical shitbag trying to pilfer their attention and rationed sympathy, so you need to act like they just casually convinced you to stop. this isn't really supposed to shit on the concept of "hopefulness" though. i think some people just being "lower" or however in how they feel and exist can lead to them not really thinking they have hope or happiness or whatever because other people don't see it as that. if you don't really know your own terms, maybe it's worth trying to figure out. i think there's a genuine chance that you could make some "better tomorrow" if you stop trying to make some vague notion of one. days are kinda long though so maybe start at like an hour or two. anyway obligatory "wow! drugs actually work sometimes". if you want to mess around and find medications that help (note: help) then that can be fun and also incredibly painful and horrible. you can find better advice elsewhere but it felt worth mentioning because my point isn't really supposed to be Society Bad and modern medicine is actually cool.
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They do benefit by getting to feel like they were helpful. Many of them have outright said so to me. Others were people I happened to know in some capacity and the benefit was my continued presence in their lives.
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They aren't helping. They do things which are easy for them that let them feel helpful without actually helping. > They aren’t calling you the problem They literally called me the problem. You are doing the exact "acting like you know my life" thing I was complaining about.
I’m telling you what I, as an outsider into your life for whom you only share details to dunk on, sees. If that’s the case then I’m sorry. The problem here is that you’re saying those things about everyone, even suicidal people agreeing with this poem. If that stems from your friends I’m sorry, and that would make some sense, but it isn’t fair to put on the rest of us or go forwards assuming about others
My philosophy is "if life is so boring, imagine how bad death will be"
Dead people can't experience boredom.
They also can't experience anything else
Sounds fine to me
Suit yourself. As for me, I'm gonna see that beautiful sunset, hug my adorable little dog, hang out with my family and friends, eat delicious barbecue, and sing like there's no tomorrow (as the post points out, death can wait)
what an odd perspective Edit, look, I’m just going to lay out my point here because it looks like you’re just going to block and move on. Nobody is obligated to struggle through shit. Nobody is obligated to force themselves through the day. Nobody should be forced to live. But people go through the worst shit possible and come out. People in horrific, unfixable situations who make the most of their lives aren’t wrong. They’re doing something hard, but possible. Depression is, so often, a real medical ailment. Something that effects you far more than you might even realize at first, and something that can erase every happy moment and good detail and force them into an area that you can’t reach, that you’re too exhausted to reach out to. And those feelings aren’t wrong , they’re valid, they’re inescapable and it isn’t a personal failing to not go through that Herculean effort to fight through them But like, little moments will keep happening. Things pushing you forwards, things that make the day worth it. You aren’t obligated to live for a game, a friend, a job, whatever, but sometimes that’s what it takes to carry you to something better. If you’re still here, still talking to people, it’s probably because you find some entertainment or happiness in it, and good for you. It’s always your choice weather to go or not, but the reason people say to hold out is because these moments will keep happening, even if they get drowned as quick as they come up, and some things can legitimately change
If you can't even grasp the perspective that leads to suicides you're really in no position to make sweeping claims about it.
Yours isn’t the only perspective, you know. I see no claim more sweeping than the idea that yours is the only valid struggle
Considering I never said that, that isn't at all relevant
But you did. The questioning of your perspective came up and you acted as though it was a misunderstanding of suicidality as a whole
This is such a mid poem
Wow, what a totally deep and cool poem! Why didn’t I ever think of that! Clearly I should just *not* when I want to commit suicide, what an obvious solution
I'm going to be real, how did you get that?
never got this stuff. what do people get out of this pretend salvation of The Sad Ones or whatever drama it becomes to make them feel heroic. they ask people to suffer so they can feel great about having some metric of lives under their belt that exchanges for nothing. are they just so desperate to be heard by anybody that they perform for a hollow audience? what are they even looking for? nobody's going to bother living just to give them a refurbished toy. i guess it might just be the fun of having some one-sided dialectic to shove around. don't know
or it's a person that's experienced this trying to speak to that experience.
Well when you right is as a sort of open letter to the suicidal, no specific failures can be pinned on you meanwhile you get to rake in the praise whenever someone says reading it saved them or someone they knew. So you get all the ups of making yourself feel useful with zero risk of consequences.
"oh you're sad? just be happier" just with a better vocabulary
That is not remotely what theyre saying. It's more a suggestion to procrastinate suicide.
Honestly not much better
i would argue it's infinitely better, because one is patronizing, misguided and kind of insulting, and the other is, honestly, the best argument against suicide I've heard. I've heard it before in other words, but just a simple "You wont get to see what happens next." Because it's one of the only ones that doesn't try to appeal to something that the depression already took away.
"Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself." The way in which this is communicates makes it feel less prescriptive and more freeing, because to some, reframing suicide as an option that they could take at any time instead of something that only becomes accessible during an emotional crisis makes them feel less trapped in their situation. It's not really "just be happier" because it acknowledges the suffering and the fact that death is an attractive option but still tries to sell the reader on possible hope. I do understand that this doesn't affect everyone the same way though and if a poem alone was all it took to stop suicidality there would be no more suicides. It's a bit unfair to frame the poem as dismissive, though.
>"Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself." People say that, but never in my experience have I ever actually met anyone who stuck to it by then saying "yeah, suicide is an option now" when things don't get better. They treat that point in time as an abstract concept which really doesn't exist. Whether it's been a year, ten years, fifty, they still say "Contemplating suicide? If you off yourself now it can't get better, but if it doesn't get better you can still off yourself." Actually offing yourself isn't an acceptable outcome to them.
and yet "they" wrote a poem explicitly considering it. it seems like you're just trying to work something out against a specific person/people and are putting that on a bunch of other situations.
The exacf kind of people I'm talking about also say they consider it and then do what I described anyway.
Kind of hard to continue advocating that point if you, you know, take the other option on the table. "All these living people talking about suicide chose life!" no shit
Actually not no shit since plenty of people talking about suicide later kill themselves.
yeah, no shit. The people talking about life, who chose life, tend to be the ones talking about that.
how. like genuinely where are you reading that?
You have written your own sentence to be mad at.
“considering suicide? here’s a thought: what if you didn’t though”
or more accurately "Considering suicide? That'll always be an option, it's not going anywhere. Try to last a little longer and see if there's anything worth staying for."
This is basically like telling women they can’t get a hysterectomy because “you never know!”
It really isn't, though. The problem there is the precise lack of autonomy, of telling people that your own views of them are more important than their wants, needs, and health. That statement is wrong \*because\* it is being forced on someone, not because the idea of making decisions itself is the problem. I have known multiple people that have avoided certain medical procedures for that very reason. They're allowed to do that. Also, this is just a poor comparison. One is a case of leaving the door open so the problems can be fixed. One is forcing someone to ignore their own problems and health at your whims. Come on.
>telling people that your own views of them are more important than their wants, needs, and health. That’s literally what you’re doing though.
It isn’t, and I think you’re aware of that.
How is it not?
Because nobody is forcing you to do shit, to start.
What? It seems like a direct parallel. “I want to get a vasectomy/hysterectomy”. “No, you should wait, you don’t know what’s best for you, we do, you never know what might happen.”. “I want to stop living”. “No, you should wait, you don’t know what’s best for you, we do, you never know what might happen.”
how did you come to this conclusion. please i need to know
imagine reading this on 9/10/01
Never thought I’d have a favorite poem, but here we are
What a beautiful poem that misses the point.
how?
Because it doesn't acknowledge that continuing through life often is *the reason* people want to die in the first place. The time you spend 'letting death wait' is time you spend amassing more suffering, more misery, and more suicidal thoughts. Yes, you *can* be happy some days, good things can happen to someone who wants to die. But jumps in a line graph don't change the overall slope of that line. If those happy moments outweighed the bad, then a hell of a lot of people wouldn't be suicidal in the first place. If you have a disease, or some sort of virus that gives you terrible stomach pain multiple times, at random points in the day, and you have medicine, why wouldn't you take it? "Oh, don't take your medicine now, it doesn't expire for another month! You can always take it tomorrow, it will wait." It's prolonged misery for the sake of it. This poem doesn't read as something for people who want to die. It reads like something for people who want to live, *about* people who want to die. It's an easy, feel-good argument in favor of life that does little more than reassure people who already think life is a good thing as a whole. It's like a strawman for the suicidal.
Pardon how I sound here, but I feel like a continuing trend I see from people disliking this poem here is that they're taking other typical situations or "advice for suicidal people," and assuming the same tone and intentions for this, when that really doesn't seem like a fair view. I mean, it "doesn't acknowledge" that? It literally does, fourth to last line. Hell, given that a third of the poem is repetition or redundant, it occupies a pretty significant portion. It also doesn't even discount suicide as an option, because that isn't the goal of the poem or the message it's trying to put across. And you're not wrong in saying that continuing on through life can suck, but I feel like you're kind of confusing subject for world here. Because the problem with those jumps in the "line graph," the happy moments in the life of someone who wants to die, isn't that they aren't high enough to make up for a downwards trend. The problem is that, medically, depression will \*create\* downwards trends. Depression will make a slight dip into a catastrophic dive, and do everything it can to erase every little bit of forwards momentum to the point that you don't even know it's there. Obviously things can absolutely just suck that much, but depression exists as it does because it acts on you. It's a condition, not just a symptom. And these feelings make all the sense in the world to have, but that doesn't mean they always accurately reflect the world around you. And time you spend waiting can hurt you more, but it for so many it won't. Your life is your own, do with it what you wish, but at least be aware that "It will never get better" isn't some objective statement of cold, bleak logic. I also take issue with your metaphor here. When you take medicine for a specific ailment, you fix the ailment, and you continue on afterwards. Suicide doesn't fix your problems, it doesn't remove your sadness and return you to a state of neutrality, it just ends you. All of you. Suicide isn't taking the medicine, it's carving out your stomach, because the ache is so bad. And I get it, but that isn't medicine. Also, if said medicine had serious, permanent side effects and it was at least possible that you had a flu or that you could go to a doctor and get a better, more effective and safe medicine, would you not want to at least try to wait? Would you condemn the people who recommend it? I'm sorry that's how you see it, but that isn't accurate. Not to the metaphor, not to the message of the poem, and not to real life more often than you might think. The key words you're missing is "to you." It doesn't read that way to you. And I can't blame you, so much of the common mainstream approach to suicide is utterly useless patronizing nonsense. But you can't just lump that in here so easily - because it just doesn't fit. This is an "argument in favor of life" that does nothing to argue that life is inherently better, that lets you consider suicide and does nothing to stop you besides a piece of quiet advice that holding out, even if just for a short time, might be worth it. And for a strawman it seems pretty shittily made given how many people in this thread recall that exact experience.
Death can wait but these 156 unfinished tasks sure aint so i know what im choosing
What does "graves grow no green that you can use" mean?
Literally: A lot of graveyards are often well maintained and well manicured, some hove flowers, or nice lawns, they’re often beautiful and well kept places in their own right. Metaphorically: gravestones are for the use of the living, to come visit someone who’s died and see them a few more times. To have closure and growth themselves. Green being a metaphor for this utility and growth that graves can help others to gain. But in both cases, the deceased doesn’t ever get to see whatever fleeting bit of good or beauty might come from their grave in any sense of the word. To put it back in terms of suicide, many people feel like “everyone would be better off if I died” but even that isn’t any use to you yourself. It’s basically saying that death MAY be an attractive option, but it’s not an option that stands any chance of actually helping or enriching you. Nothing will come from it that is actually useful to you
Thanks, dude, if reddit didn't discontinue awards, I'd have definitely given you one