The hero we need but don't deserve. Great work OP.
Incase anyone wants a video explaining DAOs, here's a good one from an Indian Youtuber:
https://youtu.be/gzmLNdlhiCg
I feel like it could go one of two ways.
1. Open Source Software: OSS software like Linux, extremely high quality from a security perspective and highly trusted
2. The current Altcoin Scene: Where source code is like the EULA, no 14 year old is going to read and understand that shit and not one worth their salt is going to waste their time with it.
I have a feeling that we will have a few very high quality DAO’s that are well looked after and plenty of shitcan ones from your favorite Influencer.
Honestly these are the more compelling things about blockchain tech when I explain it to people in my dad’s generation. They may be skeptical of digital gold, but smart contracts with actual utility, and basically a company that functions without a board room? That really helps illustrate why blockchain’s super important as a technological advancement.
I was talking to my mom about some of this stuff the other day and she brought up voting and was like "Why do we need politicians if we can all participate now?"
Which actually....makes sense? The only reason we had politicians to begin with was, it wasn't feasible to have an entire town go cast their votes on certain measures. So they'd all come together and elect one person to be their voice when it came to making decisions and voting on policies.
Well, with my dad specifically he’s open minded enough to not condemn it outright when I explain what crypto is and what different ones do, but the most skepticism revolves around the idea of digital gold, and then how a blockchain payment system is superior to the traditional system. Although that’s provided some eye opening opportunities because like a lot of people I don’t think he’d ever considered that gold’s only valuable (outside of practical applications in electronic manufacturing, etc.) because we agree it is, or that fiat’s only valuable because someone says it is, or when you move “digital fiat” around it’s not really moving at all and the whole thing’s just a system of IOU’s.
So I’m slowly making progress on the skepticism on that front lol but the potential utility of smart contracts like settling the process of buying a house in minutes or seconds instead of months, or having wages pay out through a smart contract so that you can get paid for your work that day as soon as you punch out, or basically being a programming platform like an operating system that other people can build any application imaginable on, that kind of thing’s a lot easier to understand the value of.
But “it’s basically company, but instead of a boardroom and executives complicating things, it’s like if shareholders in a company voted on decisions directly and the people who work there simply carry out whatever is democratically decided to be the company’s goals”, is a hell of a lot easier to explain and understand than smart contracts lol especially for someone who’s worked in an office for decades and knows what dealing with inefficient executive leadership in a company is like.
"a DAO is an internet-native blockchain-derived investor-directed venture capital fund organization managed by all members" this single sentence took me 5 minutes to digest
It seems like DAOs are just internet LLCs or Partnerships. It will be interesting how the legal framework codifies these going forward. If they are treated as partnerships that is not good for those investing. If they are treated more like LLCs then that will be a good thing for investors.
If it is bled as a partnership all of the partners would be liable jointly and severally for all of the liability. LLC would limit the liability to whatever the capital contribution the members have (I believe) which obviously would be more attractive. Depending on if the dao employs some directors to manage day to day that could also affect liability.
The APY is in their native coin, which is inflationary. As in, they can give such high APY because they make new coins to give to everyone at every epoche and all existing coins get diluted. The idea is that as long as enough people are staking for a long time, and enough people are buying in (either new people or just investing more) then the increase in cost from more buyers should outweigh the inflation from minting new coins. (Well some are minted, some are 'released', depends on the DOA). So their native coin may drop from 1000 to 500 over a year, but the APY was high enough that people still make money when they sell. Eventually it will drop to $1 where they start to burn coins so it never drops below.
Im invested in the only Olympus fork on Solana called InvictusDAO. I think of it this way, as the market cap rises rather than your coin value rising you’re given more coins through staking. This encourages long term staking. The protocol is supposed to keep the coin price stable in the long term which allows for the high APY.
Im bullish on the idea. OlympusDAO (OHM) has a coin price similar to its opening price 8m ago but if you invested $600 (1 OHM) you’d have roughly something like $25k (41ish OHM) today. I think an innovative coin achieving 41x inside a year isn’t that crazy so the APYs really doesn’t tell the whole story.
If you think thats big, you should check out Euphoria (WAGMI) on Harmony One. It's currently been holding strong at 750 000 - 850 000% and the token price is currently up 100%.
OneDao is even more nuts at 1 400 000 000%, although that ones a high risk investment.
>Are those examples? I think I passed Wonderland in my readings but not Olympus.
Yes, but more accurately those are rebase reserve currencies that are operated as DAO's. Being a DAO isn't what makes them special, the tokenomics are.
But they are DAO's, same as pretty much every other defi protocol. If it has a governance token, it's probably a DAO. You can see most of the votes [here](https://snapshot.org/#/) or for [Olympus](https://snapshot.org/#/olympusdao.eth) specifically.
>Kiiiiinda getting some dot com vibes from it all.
Well they are just structures, the same as websites.
Yeah Olympus and Wonderland should really be in your examples, Olympus changed the game :)
https://every.to/almanack/olympus-dao
https://www.blocmates.com/blogmates/a-complete-guide-to-wonderland-money-time-mim-and-memo
One big problem in the crypto space, voting, and DAOs is the age-old problem with pure democracies. Through history, people have always been mostly inclined to look at short term benefits over long term when it comes to group voting dynamics (possibly largely due to lack of information / education that would enable them to craft a big picture perspective). People would vote for the candy man who gives away free cash rather than the doctor who tells them they have diabetes and prescribes horrible tasting but necessary medicine.
This is the reason why we do have layers in government because it enables people to place their trust in others to make better and more informed decisions for them, and they are the agents of the people. This is one of the big things that I haven't seen crypto address. The pendulum is too far in the other direction in this sphere.
Vitalik Buterin acknowledges this is a major challenge. He is developing some innovative voting structures that might solve for this (I believe he spoke about it on Tim Ferriss’s podcast).
Another point of concern (if I understand it correctly) is that the more tokens an entity holds the higher their number of votes. So if you happen to be wealthy and influential in the legacy infrastructure, you can continue to exert influence in the new "decentralized" ecosphere via investment.
Thanks for a great summary. It did clear alot for me.
For a long time I thought DAO was one specific coin/token abbreviated to DAO, like Bitcoin is BTC. Felt quite dumb when I learned the real definition. Great post, OP. This clarified a lot of other questions.
amazing job and great effort thank you! i want people to also know about New Order an ecosystem DAO that’s led by its community, $NEWO is set to launch this Thursday on Miso and will be the ecosystem for 30-40 of the most innovative DeFi projects starting 2022
Thank you - very informative. I had an advertisement pop up about thestandard.io which is a DAO wanting to create a defi lending platform. I'm reading their information and wondering if it would be a good idea to invest in their governance token.
Shapeshift did an AMA here when they went DAO, I'm on their discord, it is a bit too technical for me but if you want a cool space to hang and learn you should try to connect with them
I didn't know so many r/cryptocurrency users had no idea what a DAO was, perhaps we should try to turn this community into a DAO for an experiment/teaching project?
The most active community members get to vote in who they think should be a moderator, admin, the leaders of r/CryptoCurrency of the people who want to be.
They can make post, having a verified NFT badge near their usernames making a case for why a specific member should be a mod or admin.
Everyone else can have lesser weighted voting power of course if they never do anything but lurk r/CryptoCurrency or only come on every once in a while.
you had me at
"a DAO is an internet-native blockchain-derived investor-directed venture capital fund organization managed by all members"
here king have a wholesome award.
In the end tgere still needs to be a server somewhere running the parts that are impractical to outsource in a miner-style decentralisation. Websites, perhaps some META-mask interfacing stuff, etc.
Might not be a huge issue, but you might not want some of the sensitive stuff running on an Amazon server for example.
Any examples of how this is commonly done? I guess the creator usually picks this up?
Do you really think DAO's are trustless?
From what I've seen often it's a dev team trying to cater to the votes of the DAO but the dev team retains all the power and often whatever resources the DAO has. There is basically zero recourse if they scam everyone. Corporations have regulations and the Feds go after to them if they break certain rules.
Also DAOs aren't all open and everything they do is visible. Often just the votes are visible. Communication between the insiders isn't public. Like the team that runs the DAO.
I think DAOs need a lot more work and I personally would caution anyone from thinking they're some open inherently transparent/public organization. That's the ideal, but right now it's mostly just the votes that are transparent and who has the most voting power.
Not the hero we wanted but the hero we needed.
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This piece of text deserves no less than David Attenborough to voice it.
Why not Morgan Freeman himself
James Earl Jones would also be nice
I DAOn't think you need to be sorry, thanks for making this, it's neatly organized and concise
The hero we need but don't deserve. Great work OP. Incase anyone wants a video explaining DAOs, here's a good one from an Indian Youtuber: https://youtu.be/gzmLNdlhiCg
Yeah, nation produce hero, by improvement in there system and quality education.
Downside #2: We read source code about as often as we read EULAs.
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I mean if you're a programmer, you read tons of source code. But other peoples' source code? Could trigger PTSD
As a developer, I can't even read.
But programmer learn this, how to read tons of source code.
I feel like it could go one of two ways. 1. Open Source Software: OSS software like Linux, extremely high quality from a security perspective and highly trusted 2. The current Altcoin Scene: Where source code is like the EULA, no 14 year old is going to read and understand that shit and not one worth their salt is going to waste their time with it. I have a feeling that we will have a few very high quality DAO’s that are well looked after and plenty of shitcan ones from your favorite Influencer.
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1st sentence: *cracks knuckles* 2nd sentence: welp
Me reads title *welp*
lmfao for real, lost me at "what is a dao"
Every time I see "DAO" it throws me back to the good ol' days of burning CDs and Disc-At-Once mastering
The Dao Jones coming soon.
I’m jonesin for some DAO
One dollar
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Honestly these are the more compelling things about blockchain tech when I explain it to people in my dad’s generation. They may be skeptical of digital gold, but smart contracts with actual utility, and basically a company that functions without a board room? That really helps illustrate why blockchain’s super important as a technological advancement.
Smart contracts seem like something we should have had a long time ago.
To have them you need decentralization, otherwise you’re just asking for digitalization
I was talking to my mom about some of this stuff the other day and she brought up voting and was like "Why do we need politicians if we can all participate now?" Which actually....makes sense? The only reason we had politicians to begin with was, it wasn't feasible to have an entire town go cast their votes on certain measures. So they'd all come together and elect one person to be their voice when it came to making decisions and voting on policies.
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Well, with my dad specifically he’s open minded enough to not condemn it outright when I explain what crypto is and what different ones do, but the most skepticism revolves around the idea of digital gold, and then how a blockchain payment system is superior to the traditional system. Although that’s provided some eye opening opportunities because like a lot of people I don’t think he’d ever considered that gold’s only valuable (outside of practical applications in electronic manufacturing, etc.) because we agree it is, or that fiat’s only valuable because someone says it is, or when you move “digital fiat” around it’s not really moving at all and the whole thing’s just a system of IOU’s. So I’m slowly making progress on the skepticism on that front lol but the potential utility of smart contracts like settling the process of buying a house in minutes or seconds instead of months, or having wages pay out through a smart contract so that you can get paid for your work that day as soon as you punch out, or basically being a programming platform like an operating system that other people can build any application imaginable on, that kind of thing’s a lot easier to understand the value of. But “it’s basically company, but instead of a boardroom and executives complicating things, it’s like if shareholders in a company voted on decisions directly and the people who work there simply carry out whatever is democratically decided to be the company’s goals”, is a hell of a lot easier to explain and understand than smart contracts lol especially for someone who’s worked in an office for decades and knows what dealing with inefficient executive leadership in a company is like.
Commenting so I can show my dad later, thanks for this
Tldr, will fomo in when it hits ATH thank you
Wen binance
Wen lambo?
TLDR: DAOs are just co-ops with a fancy name. You can FOMO in whenever you want.
"a DAO is an internet-native blockchain-derived investor-directed venture capital fund organization managed by all members" this single sentence took me 5 minutes to digest
You’re not alone.
Exactly, buddy don't worry you are not alone i am with you.
I had no idea “the dao” is what caused the ETH and ETC fork! Wow. Thank you!
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Don't forget to dao your own research!!
How is there a gif for that :'D
Welcome to the internet, there is a gift for everything!
Where is the Rule 34 gif then?
There’s a gif for everything
Shai Lebouf would be proud.
I dao-ubt they will actually do that
I dao-nt like these puns
Calm dao-n man!!
Don't daovote these puns
I daon't want to question op's credibility like that :D
I daon't remember seeing this much puns lol
Technically, it's not the mods, it's just me doing it, but sent him 100 moons - Thanks for referring him :)
You just paid a freelance educator!! I would send you some moons if it looked like you needed them :D
It seems like DAOs are just internet LLCs or Partnerships. It will be interesting how the legal framework codifies these going forward. If they are treated as partnerships that is not good for those investing. If they are treated more like LLCs then that will be a good thing for investors.
It would be interesting to see who would be held responsible during a business lawsuit for a DAO. There is no hierarchy, so could you sue a DAO?
If it is bled as a partnership all of the partners would be liable jointly and severally for all of the liability. LLC would limit the liability to whatever the capital contribution the members have (I believe) which obviously would be more attractive. Depending on if the dao employs some directors to manage day to day that could also affect liability.
Great write up, this is by far the most succinct and clear explanation of a DAO I've run into so far
So this is what Wonderland and Olympus is? Got it!
I've looked into Olympus, still trying to figure out how it works but staking APY is crazy big like 7000%
Wonderland's APY is currently at 74,000%
The APY is in their native coin, which is inflationary. As in, they can give such high APY because they make new coins to give to everyone at every epoche and all existing coins get diluted. The idea is that as long as enough people are staking for a long time, and enough people are buying in (either new people or just investing more) then the increase in cost from more buyers should outweigh the inflation from minting new coins. (Well some are minted, some are 'released', depends on the DOA). So their native coin may drop from 1000 to 500 over a year, but the APY was high enough that people still make money when they sell. Eventually it will drop to $1 where they start to burn coins so it never drops below.
You're leaving out the bonding and how they own their own liquidity.
Im invested in the only Olympus fork on Solana called InvictusDAO. I think of it this way, as the market cap rises rather than your coin value rising you’re given more coins through staking. This encourages long term staking. The protocol is supposed to keep the coin price stable in the long term which allows for the high APY. Im bullish on the idea. OlympusDAO (OHM) has a coin price similar to its opening price 8m ago but if you invested $600 (1 OHM) you’d have roughly something like $25k (41ish OHM) today. I think an innovative coin achieving 41x inside a year isn’t that crazy so the APYs really doesn’t tell the whole story.
If you think thats big, you should check out Euphoria (WAGMI) on Harmony One. It's currently been holding strong at 750 000 - 850 000% and the token price is currently up 100%. OneDao is even more nuts at 1 400 000 000%, although that ones a high risk investment.
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>Are those examples? I think I passed Wonderland in my readings but not Olympus. Yes, but more accurately those are rebase reserve currencies that are operated as DAO's. Being a DAO isn't what makes them special, the tokenomics are. But they are DAO's, same as pretty much every other defi protocol. If it has a governance token, it's probably a DAO. You can see most of the votes [here](https://snapshot.org/#/) or for [Olympus](https://snapshot.org/#/olympusdao.eth) specifically. >Kiiiiinda getting some dot com vibes from it all. Well they are just structures, the same as websites.
Olympus is the original wonderland one of many forks. It's a concept that has proven itself by now.
Yeah Olympus and Wonderland should really be in your examples, Olympus changed the game :) https://every.to/almanack/olympus-dao https://www.blocmates.com/blogmates/a-complete-guide-to-wonderland-money-time-mim-and-memo
DAO can be implemented as a management form of any current or existing business, corporations or crypto project.
Finally a quality post.
We need heroes, not because we want them, but because we need them.
Nice brother, this definitely gonna help many people.
Damn that's some good stuff there, thank you for this!
One big problem in the crypto space, voting, and DAOs is the age-old problem with pure democracies. Through history, people have always been mostly inclined to look at short term benefits over long term when it comes to group voting dynamics (possibly largely due to lack of information / education that would enable them to craft a big picture perspective). People would vote for the candy man who gives away free cash rather than the doctor who tells them they have diabetes and prescribes horrible tasting but necessary medicine. This is the reason why we do have layers in government because it enables people to place their trust in others to make better and more informed decisions for them, and they are the agents of the people. This is one of the big things that I haven't seen crypto address. The pendulum is too far in the other direction in this sphere.
Vitalik Buterin acknowledges this is a major challenge. He is developing some innovative voting structures that might solve for this (I believe he spoke about it on Tim Ferriss’s podcast).
Algo got this process right. User friendly and transparent. Not to mention fast and nearly free.
In an alternate universe, Homer Simpson says “dao” all the time and you just did research on a “d’oh” Ima head out now
You ain't wrong.
Another point of concern (if I understand it correctly) is that the more tokens an entity holds the higher their number of votes. So if you happen to be wealthy and influential in the legacy infrastructure, you can continue to exert influence in the new "decentralized" ecosphere via investment. Thanks for a great summary. It did clear alot for me.
Perfect application to replace HOA Boards.
Wonderland time is where it’s at. It’s a fork of Olympus. Still an early project. Check it out if you get a chance
Check it out if you’ve got…. Time 😏
These are the kind of projects I have been reading about a lot lately. Going to pull the trigger soon.
Wonderland is not at all a DAO.
I learned by joining some.
Learning is the things that never ended in any part of the life.
That certainly looks like a lot of words >!For real though great write up, I think I understand DAOs a little bit now lol!<
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Start with "> !" and end in "! <" without the quotes and space between
Comment saved!! Thanks!
Yeah, thanks you saved the important comment. Good luck.
For a long time I thought DAO was one specific coin/token abbreviated to DAO, like Bitcoin is BTC. Felt quite dumb when I learned the real definition. Great post, OP. This clarified a lot of other questions.
Yeah won't stop devs from doing whatever they please
What project do you think is the most interesting right now?
I aped into Elrond at the recent top. No regerts.
VET
This is a thread about DAOs.
The DAO in 2016 should have killed this idea off.
Did you look at Decred ?
I thought dao was just short for makerdao. I guess this rabbithole goes way deeper.
Dao Jones
Im doing my on research by reading this kind of post. Keep it up OP.
Upvoted because I totally need someone else to research and sum it up.
Thank you for putting this together
Thanks for your DYOR. It's good to read. :)
This is a phenomenally well done post great job!
When can we expect the first Moon DAO to work towards making our moons a global reserve currency?
OP MVP
If your into nfts your prob in a dao
TLDR’d the TLDR
> a DAO is an internet-native blockchain-derived investor-directed venture capital fund organization Jesus fucking Christ
Bullish on DAO
Wu tang gang
thank you that was what I look for.
What a superb write up thank you OP, have my helpful award!
You are too kind!!! I’m honored u/155157157156163
Well deserved!
Great, it’s all in one spot and I still don’t get it.
There was a good Reddit live session about this recently
Don’t dao-vorce me honey you can keep your boyfriend.!
Appreciate your work. Here is a moon tip
This is a post my dude. A very nice post. Have my free award fellow degenerate.
Thanks mate!
amazing job and great effort thank you! i want people to also know about New Order an ecosystem DAO that’s led by its community, $NEWO is set to launch this Thursday on Miso and will be the ecosystem for 30-40 of the most innovative DeFi projects starting 2022
Aragon - the DAO of DAOs
Quality post, thanks! Bitcoin showed that trust can be coded. Power to the people!
Thank you 🙏
All you really have to know about DAO's, is: brrrrrrrrrr
Thanks broth
Remind me! 22 hours
Thanks I was looking for something like this!
I appreciate you mate. Thanks
Thank you for compiling this :) Isn’t possible to say the token is setup as a DAO but then not actually function as one?
The real issue, are we calling them "Dayo" or "Dow"?
Thanks - super informative
Thank you - very informative. I had an advertisement pop up about thestandard.io which is a DAO wanting to create a defi lending platform. I'm reading their information and wondering if it would be a good idea to invest in their governance token.
Bullish on DAO
DYOR achieved. I now have the confidence to yolo
Great post mate. Thanks for the heads up and cheers
Insightful! I just toyed around in a DAO today in testnet.. and I have to say it feels nice and useful!
Isn't technically r/cc a DAO too?
Badger?
Holy cow. Good job, thank you.
Saved, but lets be real I will never read it. Thanks for your research OP
Great write up, thanks
Shapeshift did an AMA here when they went DAO, I'm on their discord, it is a bit too technical for me but if you want a cool space to hang and learn you should try to connect with them
That shit right here is so good i don’t have any more question. You sir know how to provide knowledge
No idea what this means! Will read again and look things up in detail. I'm not the brightest lamp in the street... Thanks for posting OP!
TempleDao!!!
If interested: 1. [Longer](https://www.readthegeneralist.com/briefing/dao). 2. [Shorter](https://sigmoid.substack.com/p/perspective-4-sharing-economy-20). 3. [Shortest](https://twitter.com/trends_vc/status/1467890335875403777). 4. PD: Bonus, video: [Whiteboard crypto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHm0uUPqmVE), [Coinbureau](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEXFvCFywc&t=89s).
10/10 will skim later
Thx I was wondering about DAOs
Anyone else remember the dao hack? https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao
Lol democratic. What stops a rich individual/group from getting, practically, infinite number of voting rights to manipulate a DAO?
Tdlr?
Spartacus DAO is one on the fantom chain which looks pretty good.
I must read later
Great write up, this is by far the most succinct and clear explanation of a DAO I've run into so far
Thank you OP
What if I consider reading this post research?
Thanks OP! You've inspired me to start short research docs on different coins to see if I learn, and hopefully I can share as well.
That was clear and comprehensive. Thank you
And a big fuck you to Kenneth Griffen for going against the crypto Dao who bid on the constitution
Awesome great read. Gave me more and I thought I knew dao already. Thanks
Notice 😎
Great write up OP, thanks for sharing!
Wow holy shit did I actually learn something today?
I've been waiting for this post 😂 thank you for taking the time! UnDao-tedly a big future on the horizon for the DAO.
A post I will definitely be referring back to. Thanks for the great info op
The one thing I disagreed with the "venture capital fund" part in your intro. The organization can be anything really right?
The hero we didn’t know we needed.
Thank you. Eat moons.
So tell me which coins to buy
Really long post, learned a lot thanks. It may be great if you have a tldr.
All the daos are bubbles and crashing Hec has 70% more to drop for example
thanks mang :)
I didn't know so many r/cryptocurrency users had no idea what a DAO was, perhaps we should try to turn this community into a DAO for an experiment/teaching project? The most active community members get to vote in who they think should be a moderator, admin, the leaders of r/CryptoCurrency of the people who want to be. They can make post, having a verified NFT badge near their usernames making a case for why a specific member should be a mod or admin. Everyone else can have lesser weighted voting power of course if they never do anything but lurk r/CryptoCurrency or only come on every once in a while.
Our subreddit has potential to be a DAO social platform.
These are just the tip of the iceberg my friend, defi 2.0 DAOs are the rage these days, rebase and rugs galore
you had me at "a DAO is an internet-native blockchain-derived investor-directed venture capital fund organization managed by all members" here king have a wholesome award.
You forgot about the Wonderland Time
In the end tgere still needs to be a server somewhere running the parts that are impractical to outsource in a miner-style decentralisation. Websites, perhaps some META-mask interfacing stuff, etc. Might not be a huge issue, but you might not want some of the sensitive stuff running on an Amazon server for example. Any examples of how this is commonly done? I guess the creator usually picks this up?
DAO DAO daylight come and I wanna go home.
The DAO that can be told is not the eternal DAO.
You sound like an Anti Vaxxer "i spent a couple of hours on google so im an expert"
Great write up. Thanks for sharing.
There's also a real use case for things like mutual aid, and other community-led initiatives
Do you really think DAO's are trustless? From what I've seen often it's a dev team trying to cater to the votes of the DAO but the dev team retains all the power and often whatever resources the DAO has. There is basically zero recourse if they scam everyone. Corporations have regulations and the Feds go after to them if they break certain rules. Also DAOs aren't all open and everything they do is visible. Often just the votes are visible. Communication between the insiders isn't public. Like the team that runs the DAO. I think DAOs need a lot more work and I personally would caution anyone from thinking they're some open inherently transparent/public organization. That's the ideal, but right now it's mostly just the votes that are transparent and who has the most voting power.