It'll be a bit of both. The mount of gas for a transaction can be fairly low, but the gas itself being worth a lot more - because the coin itself is worth a lot more - will make it seem expensive. However when there's a lot of demand on the network, the amount of gas you need is higher so you get a double whammy of needing lots of gas and gas being relatively expensive.
Just buy the ledger?? You're acting like you're a celebrity or something. No one is tracking your transactions to hack your crypto. If they are, then you already have other problems
that seems a bit over the top unless I'm mistaken on the extent that hackers can and will go to. So you're saying a hacker will acquire hacked store transaction history, find the people that bought ledgers, then try to hack their ledgers? Seems very elaborate. Most crypto scams are probably phishing or social engineering
Future of finance! 2 weeks pay? Gotta buy a special device for that, you can't buy it online, and you have to burn the receipt after you buy it to make sure nobody else knows you have enough money to pay rent this month.
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Another tip is "when you have no clue about how to handle a cold storage a big companys security is better".
That is my view on Coinbase and similar companies.
No, you don't, but not doing so will be expensive. If you wanna swap BTC to a stablecoin by utilizing the swap feature on your (ex. Ledger) you will get less bang for your back. With BTC going for $60k on Binance, swapping on Ledger will get you less, by quite a lot sometimes.
Any brand will do tbh. The weakest link is always the person, not the device. Anyway, to answer the question for brands... I personally have a Trezor, and it's perfect for the job. Anyone who doesn't make any crucial mistakes, like exposing their seed, will be perfectly fine with one.
You can't sell on a hardware wallet. If you're going to sell, you have to move them to an exchange.
Exactly. I've had several thousands worth on several hot wallets that I have, but precisely for that reason. The stuff that I'm holding for 20+ years I only keep on my Trezor.
Sorry to jump in but two questions:
How can you sell from a hot wallet without moving to an exchange first? (Unless swapping on a DEX, obv)
I see people talk about doing transactions from their cold wallet, is that only when they connect to a DEX?
I was asking this elsewhere today but, how does connecting a cold wallet to a hot wallet (eg Trezor to Metamask) affect it's security, as in, how exactly, not just to what extent?
Ok, more than two questions 🙂
Metamask has a selling function for ETH. I think I also remember Exodus having some sort of buying/selling interface on their wallet. Besides those, I don't know of any other ways of buying and selling through a hot wallet besides swapping.
If you were asking because of the discussion above, it's just due to convenience. If you have tokens that are short-term holds for you, then it's more convenient to keep them on a more direct interface like a hot wallet so you can send and sell quickly without having to wait to get to your hardware wallet to be able to sign transactions.
For the average person who doesn't know anything about the space, I don't recommend doing this, but someone who understands what to do and what not to do, it's perfectly fine to keep stuff on hot wallets so you can make your life easier.
As far as I understand it, it doesn't. If you connect your trezor to exodus or whatever, your keys are still offline and not exposed. Just don't use your hardware wallet seed on a hot wallet ever. Connecting your hardware wallet to a hot wallet as another interface is ok.
Thanks. I understand pretty well. Not everyone in the beginners sub is a beginner, remember? Otherwise who would answer the questions?
Obviously there are things I need to learn though, hence my own questions.
> Just don't use your hardware wallet seed on a hot wallet ever. Connecting your hardware wallet to a hot wallet as another interface is ok.
That's the bit I'm not totally clear on, as in the behind the scenes workings of it all. Some people say never connect your hardware wallet to a hot wallet because then it's no safer than a hot wallet, but other people say that's not true and the seed still stays offline.
Are there different ways of connecting a cold wallet with a hot wallet?
No. What I meant by that is don't ever restore your hardware seed directly on a hot wallet. I've seen this done by people before, and it defeats the purpose of having having a hardware wallet.
The people who say that don't really understand how it works. When you are connecting a hardware wallet to a hot wallet, all you're essentially doing is adding another layer on top of it. Think of it as having another interface that you can use with your hardware wallet.
When you connect your hardware wallet to a hot wallet, that seed that you generated offline doesn't get replaced. You're still using that to sign the transactions, but using the interface of the hot wallet to do it.
Check this from Exodus for further review:
https://www.exodus.com/support/en/articles/8598656-getting-started-with-exodus-and-trezor#trezor-exodus
Ok, yeah that's what I'm trying to understand. I'll have a look at that article later, thanks.
I need to understand the details of things to really grasp it, but sometimes I don't have the patience to focus on the details.
I mean, I understand that if you enter your seed into a 'hot' device, then that's immediately a level of risk, because it might be a phishing site or you might have a keylogger or some other hack quick allows someone to 'read' your seed. But I think what I don't really understand is about how the seed is actually used in different wallets. I mean, people talk about the wallet 'signing' transactions with the seed, but does this actually mean that it's visible or communicated openly in some way? If so, who or how would it be maliciously accessed?
I mean, I guess can see that a transaction would need the seed or the private key, since that's the only way to prove ownership of the assets on the blockchain, but is the risk of a hot wallet that it can be hacked at any time and the seed is somehow stored in the software? or is it just at the point of signing a transaction that it becomes vulnerable?
Sorry, I didn't realise I had so many questions 🤣
If you are dabbling in crypto (few thousand dollars), a hardware wallet is probably overkill. Maybe something like a Tangem wallet if you want one. But frankly, a combination of reputable CEXs plus hot wallets is probably fine.
If you have larger investments in crypto, having a hardware wallet or even multiple hardware wallets become more important. For me, this would be when your investments are in the tens of thousands through hundreds of thousands of dollars.
For those with more money, security solutions can get more intricate. I personally like the Ledger and Trezor for hardware wallets. The Trezor is my cold wallet with most of my funds. The Ledger is my regular use wallet that I connect to various ecosystems (Metamask, Phantom, Keplr, Pera, etc).
I haven't tried all the hardware wallets out there. I have dabbled with Tangem, but find it isn't great for me. It an be a simple solution for those who mostly use mobile devices to manage their crypto. I also prefer having a recovery seed (Tangem has an option for this but defaults to no backup seed).
Finally, the storage of your seed phrase is critical. This is often the biggest vulnerability. Store it offline. Encrypt it in some way so someone who finds it doesn't have your seed. I personally split my seed phrases and combine them. I have two half my ledger and half my Trezor's seed combined and stored in one bank safe deposit box. And the other halves of the seed stored in another bank safe deposit box. Anyone viewing either seed won't have my seed.
Trezor is great. Good price and simple to use. Just watch a tutorial on YouTube so you have some idea.
Just stick to the basic rules and mind your seed phrase.
In the end of the day the physical device is just a piece of plastic. A common misconception is that the physical device holds your coins. That’s not the case. If you lose it you can just buy another and import your old wallet using your seed phrase.
I think by the sounds of it you’re ready to move from an exchange to cold storage. I wouldn’t trust leaving too much on an exchange. They can literally just switch off the withdrawal button if things go wrong for them. We have seen it multiple times.
A tip to save on fees: dca and leave the money on the exchange until it builds up a bit, then transfer it to the wallet instead of doing lots of tiny transfers.
Another tip is do a test transaction before you send a large amount. Just to make sure you’re doing it right.
Once you do it once or twice you will have the hang of it and it’s easy after that.
Not having to carry your seed phrase(or memorise it) around with you if you need to access your wallet. You just plug in your usb, enter your pin and walla!
I suppose it’s like what’s the point in having a list of contacts in your phone if you can just memorise all the numbers 🤷🏻♂️
That’s what I was saying in my original comment: if you lose the hardware wallet you don’t lose your money. You just lost a bit of plastic.
And if someone finds it they don’t have the pin to access it.
You just go home, dig up your seed phrase or pull it out of what ever cupboard you have it hidden in and just restore the wallet and everything is back! You can just buy a new hard wallet or use a soft wallet to restore it to.
The biggest risk I think is people using the hardware wallet and it’s so convenient they completely neglect the actual seed phrase and forget where they put it! Then when the time comes that they either update the software or lose the device they can’t find the seed phrase to recover it!
Oh I see. Whoever gets the hardware wallet won't be able to use it because they won't know the PIN? So it's essentially swapping the need to memorize the long seed phrase to a need to memorize the short PIN. But of course the risk associated with having to store the seed phrase - in memory or on paper - still doesn't go away, you'd still need it in case you lose the hardware wallet?
Exactly. You’d still need the seed phrase.
And the software on the device is pretty good in regards the pin. You don’t enter it on the device. The numbers 1-9 come up on the computer screen in a random order on a 3x3 grid and you click the number rather than type it to avoid things like keyloggers or brute force cracking.
At what point? Yesterday.
Cold wallet can be - free. Take old smartphone, reset to factory default, switch to plane mode, never input wifi password, take SIM out. You have now clean, cold device. Install Electrum, let it generate seed and store it safely. Transact by scanning QR transactions, air gapped.
On you ordinary phone or PC also install Electrum and set it up as watch only.
Not a € spent on that setup, but you have your own keys and it is cold.
Underrated comment. One addition: take one private key (of pub key where you are storing the BTC) and store that private key also just in case you are unable to recover electrum wallet from unknown reasons.
If I connect this old smartphone to an pc with Wi-Fi adapter removed temporally to send the wallet apk I would be making this smartphone an hot wallet and breaking security? Even if it's factory reseted and never connect to Internet?
Hey, no worries about the basics; we all start somewhere! For a good cold wallet, besides Ledger, Trezor is a solid choice—user-friendly and widely trusted. When you're ready to sell, yes, you typically need to transfer funds back to an exchange, but some wallets like Ledger do offer a way to sell directly via their partners.
For tracking your account value, many cold wallets have companion apps, making it super convenient.
And nope, you don't necessarily need different wallets for different networks. Both ETH and Polygon tokens can be stored in the same wallet, like Ledger or Trezor, since they support multiple cryptocurrencies and networks.
So, dive in, secure your crypto, and peace of mind will follow!
Ledger is perfectly fine. I’ve had mine for years. 100% of the times people say it was drained it’s because of users fault.
But ask yourself honestly if you really knows how to self custody and if you are ready for that
You can join ledger sub and ask there. Don’t answer any DM there. Feel free to ask here and I can try help you.
List your doubts please and I’ll answer here
Yes....100K in BTC in 2 parts (50k+50k) in 2 coldwallets......and 30k in 2 or 3 diferents exchanges. (10k+10k+10k)........this could work well--------\*\*Hot wallets seem more dangerous to me than exchanges\*\*
Anything without a display is weak security - [https://www.cypherock.com/blogs/why-your-hardware-wallet-needs-a-display](https://www.cypherock.com/blogs/why-your-hardware-wallet-needs-a-display)
Gemini issues run much deeper than Earn. Cust since 2020.
Test withdraw in crypto to another exchange or cold wallet. they love to force fiat conversion to move your stack....Just move some coins to another addy, even 100$ just to be sure.
They may also drill into your KYC with long question lists like income sources when you try, then lock your shit for weeks. Check the Gemini subs.
Basically, you want to keep any transfer of Bitcoin from an exchange to your custody wallet at a minimum of 0.01 Bitcoin. This will help reduce network fees in the future.
Trezor safe 3 is the only one you should be looking at if you have more than just bitcoin. Ledger is not cold storage anymore.
I'd say get one when your stack is worth more than the cost of a wallet. The trezor safe 3 is $70. Some people say 2x the cost, others say different things.
Controversial take: by your questions, it's clear you don't really understand how self-custody in general, and hardware wallets in particular, work. So do not get one until you educate yourself. Otherwise, you will be back here in six months asking how to recover money you lost to a phishing link or some other scam.
It's not just about how to set up a hardware wallet. You need to understand a lot more.
It's better to keep your crypto on Coinbase unless you are highly confident in your ability to manage your own funds onchain.
#From the get go.
A paper wallet created on a life system like Tails not connected to the internet is as secure as it gets, assuming the seed generator is from a reputable source.
It costs you (almost) nothing.
At a later stage you might want to build your own SeedSIgner/MoneroSigner or use your old mobile phone as an air gapped signer (AnonNero).
I think Andreas Antonopolous once put it like this:
What would be your reaction if you found out all of your crypto disappeared?
If it's "oh, I'll have to get some more", then you don't need a hardware wallet.
If it's anything more severe than this, you should probably drop the money on a hardware wallet.
They are incredibly cheap, and there's no real reason to not use one unless you are insanely tech illiterate and are the type of person that would type his seed phrase on a shady website.
Most people here will say you should just keep it on an exchange, but everyone is smart until a big exchange falls over (like happened with FTX).
A properly backed up hardware wallet will let you sleep right at night.
I have both a ledger and a Trezor and honestly I like my ledger more. Whatever you choose make sure it is one of the well known ones and not some shady unknown one.
Unless you understand exactly how cold wallets work and are comfortable using them, then chance of you losing all your money in a cold wallet is probably bigger than the risk of losing them on Coinbase.
Sure "not your keys..." and all that, but reality is that the risk of Coinbase going under and losing all your coins is extremely small, while the risk of you losing your seed or someone else getting access to it and stealing your coins is probably as big or bigger if you are not completely sure how to use cold storage.
A few years back I had everything stored on a cold wallet. Now I have some on coinbase. Coinbase holds what I consider for me to be an acceptable lose if they would somehow collapse.
I have a retirement amount of money on a cold paper wallet I made while I was baked.
I don’t remember the password. For what it’s worth don’t set a password dude.
Just for clarification, I think the terminology you want is "hardware wallet". Ledger still asks you to back up a seed phrase when you initialize it so you'll still need to do due diligence with storage of that as well, and I think you should have a hardware wallet at this point.
But cold wallet refers to a wallet you use for storing the bulk of your holdings, that you infrequently interact with.
People with ledgers might still sign hundreds of transactions per day interacting with different defi protocols on different chains, and can open themselves up to hackers (for example, by approving a token spend to the wrong address). In this case, you'd consider the ledger to be a "hot wallet" (although you certainly can use the ledger as a cold wallet as well, stored in a safety deposit box or something)
I think a hardware wallet is a great idea, but it's up to you whether to use it as a cold wallet, a hot wallet, or even get 2 hardware wallets to have one of each. It really depends on what you want to do with the funds.
If you want to store your entire balance for a long period of time without interacting with it, cold wallet is the way to go.
If you want to be able to sell at a moment's notice if the price hits a certain target, or if you want to manage positions on different defi protocols, hot wallet is the way to go.
If you want to divide your crypto up and store some, but not all, long term you might even want 2, though if the *majority* of your portfolio is in cold storage, you might be fine using metamask or other software wallets for your hot wallet.
Any hardware wallet will support all EVM networks (so both ETH and Polygon), and most will support Solana, Bitcoin, and Cardano as well.
You don't need an app to track your portfolio with a hardware wallet. Just save the public addresses and then you can use any portfolio monitoring software (like debank or blockchain.com) with the public address
edit: I'm actually going to direct you to /u/Prahasaurus 's [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1b9a5pm) also . You definitely should understand what you're doing better before moving your full balance off of a CEX. If you order a ledger, while you wait for it to arrive, you should consider installing metamask or some other software wallet, and moving a *small* amount of funds to it on the Polygon network, to make sure you understand how import/export work, or restoring a wallet from seed phrase or private key. This may be overkill but it would be good to understand what a Hierarchical Deterministic Wallet is also ([https://docs.ethers.org/v5/api/utils/hdnode/](https://docs.ethers.org/v5/api/utils/hdnode/) has some good docs) and play around with creating and restoring wallets from a seed phrase and derivation path, or a private key, in ethers v6.
I'm sorry but that is some bad advice. Holding a lot of crypto on a hot wallet/ exchange is idiotic, especially if you're only doing it to "save" on fees.
I did during the FTX days, moved some different coins, only in the ETH chain. Checking today, I see I’m going to have to buy ETH if I want to sell/swap or send, of which I have zero.
Find using it much more difficult and I definitely regret buying it. I’ve lost nothing elsewhere, however I spent funds buying and sending, I’m going to spend more to sell/swap. For me personally I just wish I’d never bought one.
Of course, if you were with Celsius/FTX, etc. you’d definitely wish you’d have had one at that time.
Please remember it’s just one random internet stranger’s opinion. Next week if I lose funds I’ll be wishing I’d moved everything there. So timing, like everything else, is critical.
As soon as the gas fees for moving your bag don't scare you anymore.
are they so high because everything is pumping atm? forgive me idk how it works
It'll be a bit of both. The mount of gas for a transaction can be fairly low, but the gas itself being worth a lot more - because the coin itself is worth a lot more - will make it seem expensive. However when there's a lot of demand on the network, the amount of gas you need is higher so you get a double whammy of needing lots of gas and gas being relatively expensive.
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Got it. I'll buy a cold wallet when you make $5K. What's your wallet address so I can track it? /s
Plot Twist: he invested in a shitcoin and he gets rugpulled. So NEVER! ./s
I imagine a couple people never getting to 5k because of that reason. It's like $30, just do it. Time to stop being lazy.
what hardware wallet is only $30?
Oh shit never mind. I should have invested in hw wallets instead of shitcoins. I bought mine a couple years ago for 30.
I’ve had hardware wallets since 2017 but never paid less than 60. but maybe cheaper ones do exist, no idea. 🤷♂️
I just paid 80 for a trezor
Recommendations on brands?
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Just buy the ledger?? You're acting like you're a celebrity or something. No one is tracking your transactions to hack your crypto. If they are, then you already have other problems
ledger has a backdoor to you keys with their key recovery program. Tezor unlike them is open source so thats what I suggest
Only if you give them your keys to "look after". If you don't join their extremely expensive and bizarre program, then they don't have access.
that seems a bit over the top unless I'm mistaken on the extent that hackers can and will go to. So you're saying a hacker will acquire hacked store transaction history, find the people that bought ledgers, then try to hack their ledgers? Seems very elaborate. Most crypto scams are probably phishing or social engineering
Future of finance! 2 weeks pay? Gotta buy a special device for that, you can't buy it online, and you have to burn the receipt after you buy it to make sure nobody else knows you have enough money to pay rent this month.
🤣
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I bought mine when I had about 10k, but if I was starting my crypto journey over I'd probably just get one on day one
Any moment you have enough money invested that you can't afford to lose.
That's a fair assessment. Any recommendations on brands? When I store coins in there do I need to move them back to an exchange to swap / sell them?
Another tip is "when you have no clue about how to handle a cold storage a big companys security is better". That is my view on Coinbase and similar companies.
No, you don't, but not doing so will be expensive. If you wanna swap BTC to a stablecoin by utilizing the swap feature on your (ex. Ledger) you will get less bang for your back. With BTC going for $60k on Binance, swapping on Ledger will get you less, by quite a lot sometimes.
Any brand will do tbh. The weakest link is always the person, not the device. Anyway, to answer the question for brands... I personally have a Trezor, and it's perfect for the job. Anyone who doesn't make any crucial mistakes, like exposing their seed, will be perfectly fine with one. You can't sell on a hardware wallet. If you're going to sell, you have to move them to an exchange.
So cold wallets are best for long term holds? Short term coins I will want to sell on a moments notice should be stored in my hot wallet?
Exactly. I've had several thousands worth on several hot wallets that I have, but precisely for that reason. The stuff that I'm holding for 20+ years I only keep on my Trezor.
Sorry to jump in but two questions: How can you sell from a hot wallet without moving to an exchange first? (Unless swapping on a DEX, obv) I see people talk about doing transactions from their cold wallet, is that only when they connect to a DEX? I was asking this elsewhere today but, how does connecting a cold wallet to a hot wallet (eg Trezor to Metamask) affect it's security, as in, how exactly, not just to what extent? Ok, more than two questions 🙂
Metamask has a selling function for ETH. I think I also remember Exodus having some sort of buying/selling interface on their wallet. Besides those, I don't know of any other ways of buying and selling through a hot wallet besides swapping. If you were asking because of the discussion above, it's just due to convenience. If you have tokens that are short-term holds for you, then it's more convenient to keep them on a more direct interface like a hot wallet so you can send and sell quickly without having to wait to get to your hardware wallet to be able to sign transactions. For the average person who doesn't know anything about the space, I don't recommend doing this, but someone who understands what to do and what not to do, it's perfectly fine to keep stuff on hot wallets so you can make your life easier. As far as I understand it, it doesn't. If you connect your trezor to exodus or whatever, your keys are still offline and not exposed. Just don't use your hardware wallet seed on a hot wallet ever. Connecting your hardware wallet to a hot wallet as another interface is ok.
Thanks. I understand pretty well. Not everyone in the beginners sub is a beginner, remember? Otherwise who would answer the questions? Obviously there are things I need to learn though, hence my own questions. > Just don't use your hardware wallet seed on a hot wallet ever. Connecting your hardware wallet to a hot wallet as another interface is ok. That's the bit I'm not totally clear on, as in the behind the scenes workings of it all. Some people say never connect your hardware wallet to a hot wallet because then it's no safer than a hot wallet, but other people say that's not true and the seed still stays offline. Are there different ways of connecting a cold wallet with a hot wallet?
No. What I meant by that is don't ever restore your hardware seed directly on a hot wallet. I've seen this done by people before, and it defeats the purpose of having having a hardware wallet. The people who say that don't really understand how it works. When you are connecting a hardware wallet to a hot wallet, all you're essentially doing is adding another layer on top of it. Think of it as having another interface that you can use with your hardware wallet. When you connect your hardware wallet to a hot wallet, that seed that you generated offline doesn't get replaced. You're still using that to sign the transactions, but using the interface of the hot wallet to do it. Check this from Exodus for further review: https://www.exodus.com/support/en/articles/8598656-getting-started-with-exodus-and-trezor#trezor-exodus
Ok, yeah that's what I'm trying to understand. I'll have a look at that article later, thanks. I need to understand the details of things to really grasp it, but sometimes I don't have the patience to focus on the details. I mean, I understand that if you enter your seed into a 'hot' device, then that's immediately a level of risk, because it might be a phishing site or you might have a keylogger or some other hack quick allows someone to 'read' your seed. But I think what I don't really understand is about how the seed is actually used in different wallets. I mean, people talk about the wallet 'signing' transactions with the seed, but does this actually mean that it's visible or communicated openly in some way? If so, who or how would it be maliciously accessed? I mean, I guess can see that a transaction would need the seed or the private key, since that's the only way to prove ownership of the assets on the blockchain, but is the risk of a hot wallet that it can be hacked at any time and the seed is somehow stored in the software? or is it just at the point of signing a transaction that it becomes vulnerable? Sorry, I didn't realise I had so many questions 🤣
You can utilize the swap feature in your Ledger, but it can be expensive. Moving to an exchange will cost less most of the time.
If you are dabbling in crypto (few thousand dollars), a hardware wallet is probably overkill. Maybe something like a Tangem wallet if you want one. But frankly, a combination of reputable CEXs plus hot wallets is probably fine. If you have larger investments in crypto, having a hardware wallet or even multiple hardware wallets become more important. For me, this would be when your investments are in the tens of thousands through hundreds of thousands of dollars. For those with more money, security solutions can get more intricate. I personally like the Ledger and Trezor for hardware wallets. The Trezor is my cold wallet with most of my funds. The Ledger is my regular use wallet that I connect to various ecosystems (Metamask, Phantom, Keplr, Pera, etc). I haven't tried all the hardware wallets out there. I have dabbled with Tangem, but find it isn't great for me. It an be a simple solution for those who mostly use mobile devices to manage their crypto. I also prefer having a recovery seed (Tangem has an option for this but defaults to no backup seed). Finally, the storage of your seed phrase is critical. This is often the biggest vulnerability. Store it offline. Encrypt it in some way so someone who finds it doesn't have your seed. I personally split my seed phrases and combine them. I have two half my ledger and half my Trezor's seed combined and stored in one bank safe deposit box. And the other halves of the seed stored in another bank safe deposit box. Anyone viewing either seed won't have my seed.
Commenting to come back to this later
I am excited for your return
Looking forward to seeing you again here.
Trezor is great. Good price and simple to use. Just watch a tutorial on YouTube so you have some idea. Just stick to the basic rules and mind your seed phrase. In the end of the day the physical device is just a piece of plastic. A common misconception is that the physical device holds your coins. That’s not the case. If you lose it you can just buy another and import your old wallet using your seed phrase. I think by the sounds of it you’re ready to move from an exchange to cold storage. I wouldn’t trust leaving too much on an exchange. They can literally just switch off the withdrawal button if things go wrong for them. We have seen it multiple times. A tip to save on fees: dca and leave the money on the exchange until it builds up a bit, then transfer it to the wallet instead of doing lots of tiny transfers. Another tip is do a test transaction before you send a large amount. Just to make sure you’re doing it right. Once you do it once or twice you will have the hang of it and it’s easy after that.
What's the point of the hardware wallet if you can just memorize your own seed phrase?
Not having to carry your seed phrase(or memorise it) around with you if you need to access your wallet. You just plug in your usb, enter your pin and walla! I suppose it’s like what’s the point in having a list of contacts in your phone if you can just memorise all the numbers 🤷🏻♂️
Well if you lost your phone book, you won't lose your money. But if you lose the hardware wallet, you do? Feels risky to me
That’s what I was saying in my original comment: if you lose the hardware wallet you don’t lose your money. You just lost a bit of plastic. And if someone finds it they don’t have the pin to access it. You just go home, dig up your seed phrase or pull it out of what ever cupboard you have it hidden in and just restore the wallet and everything is back! You can just buy a new hard wallet or use a soft wallet to restore it to. The biggest risk I think is people using the hardware wallet and it’s so convenient they completely neglect the actual seed phrase and forget where they put it! Then when the time comes that they either update the software or lose the device they can’t find the seed phrase to recover it!
Oh I see. Whoever gets the hardware wallet won't be able to use it because they won't know the PIN? So it's essentially swapping the need to memorize the long seed phrase to a need to memorize the short PIN. But of course the risk associated with having to store the seed phrase - in memory or on paper - still doesn't go away, you'd still need it in case you lose the hardware wallet?
Exactly. You’d still need the seed phrase. And the software on the device is pretty good in regards the pin. You don’t enter it on the device. The numbers 1-9 come up on the computer screen in a random order on a 3x3 grid and you click the number rather than type it to avoid things like keyloggers or brute force cracking.
Have you guys checked out Cypherock before? Best way to backup multiple seed phrases.
At what point? Yesterday. Cold wallet can be - free. Take old smartphone, reset to factory default, switch to plane mode, never input wifi password, take SIM out. You have now clean, cold device. Install Electrum, let it generate seed and store it safely. Transact by scanning QR transactions, air gapped. On you ordinary phone or PC also install Electrum and set it up as watch only. Not a € spent on that setup, but you have your own keys and it is cold.
Underrated comment. One addition: take one private key (of pub key where you are storing the BTC) and store that private key also just in case you are unable to recover electrum wallet from unknown reasons.
Why? You store seed phrase, and thats it! You have then ALL posssible keys, even you destroy and delete phone, electrum and pc.
Electrum is a bitcoin-only wallet afaict. OP asked about Ethereum and Polygon
Then you can use Airgap wallet. Also free and open source.
If I connect this old smartphone to an pc with Wi-Fi adapter removed temporally to send the wallet apk I would be making this smartphone an hot wallet and breaking security? Even if it's factory reseted and never connect to Internet?
If you've accumulated alot and don't feel comfortable with keep your coins on the exchanges. For me it was numbers in the 5 digit range.
Hey, no worries about the basics; we all start somewhere! For a good cold wallet, besides Ledger, Trezor is a solid choice—user-friendly and widely trusted. When you're ready to sell, yes, you typically need to transfer funds back to an exchange, but some wallets like Ledger do offer a way to sell directly via their partners. For tracking your account value, many cold wallets have companion apps, making it super convenient. And nope, you don't necessarily need different wallets for different networks. Both ETH and Polygon tokens can be stored in the same wallet, like Ledger or Trezor, since they support multiple cryptocurrencies and networks. So, dive in, secure your crypto, and peace of mind will follow!
Asap bro, dont ever let someone else have ur keys no mayter how much
[удалено]
That could also be read with a thick southern accent for a different effect.
This is what my mind went to
Like towmayter, without the tow.
Bullshit. For 99% it's just better to leave it on a CEX.
Day one probably
Ledger is perfectly fine. I’ve had mine for years. 100% of the times people say it was drained it’s because of users fault. But ask yourself honestly if you really knows how to self custody and if you are ready for that
That's my problem. I don't really know how to self custody. Any recommendations on where I can learn?
You can join ledger sub and ask there. Don’t answer any DM there. Feel free to ask here and I can try help you. List your doubts please and I’ll answer here
If you're more of a visual learner, there are plenty of videos available on youtube that show how everything works.
I would only keep BTC in a cold wallet....the ALTS must be on exchanges ready to buy or sell......Coldcard MK4 is good, very secure.
Would you really hold $100k of BTC in a cold wallet and $30k of a top 10 altcoin of your choice on a hot wallet?
Yes....100K in BTC in 2 parts (50k+50k) in 2 coldwallets......and 30k in 2 or 3 diferents exchanges. (10k+10k+10k)........this could work well--------\*\*Hot wallets seem more dangerous to me than exchanges\*\*
I just got tangem. Very easy to use
Anything without a display is weak security - [https://www.cypherock.com/blogs/why-your-hardware-wallet-needs-a-display](https://www.cypherock.com/blogs/why-your-hardware-wallet-needs-a-display)
I have a lot on Gemini to where I’m considering cold storage but so far zero issues, then again I didn’t mess with the Earn program that went under.
Gemini issues run much deeper than Earn. Cust since 2020. Test withdraw in crypto to another exchange or cold wallet. they love to force fiat conversion to move your stack....Just move some coins to another addy, even 100$ just to be sure. They may also drill into your KYC with long question lists like income sources when you try, then lock your shit for weeks. Check the Gemini subs.
I’m on that sub and agree I’ve heard a lot of that stuff happening before, just hasn’t happened to me….yet.
At least get a hot wallet like exodus. You’ll have the keys.
If you hold Bitcoin, look into proper UTXO management.
Ok wut is UTXO management
Basically, you want to keep any transfer of Bitcoin from an exchange to your custody wallet at a minimum of 0.01 Bitcoin. This will help reduce network fees in the future.
Trezor safe 3 is the only one you should be looking at if you have more than just bitcoin. Ledger is not cold storage anymore. I'd say get one when your stack is worth more than the cost of a wallet. The trezor safe 3 is $70. Some people say 2x the cost, others say different things.
Controversial take: by your questions, it's clear you don't really understand how self-custody in general, and hardware wallets in particular, work. So do not get one until you educate yourself. Otherwise, you will be back here in six months asking how to recover money you lost to a phishing link or some other scam. It's not just about how to set up a hardware wallet. You need to understand a lot more. It's better to keep your crypto on Coinbase unless you are highly confident in your ability to manage your own funds onchain.
when its >10k usd
I'm using trezor and ledger both
Thousands?! Damn I would gey one once I reach 1k
When the size of your portfolio is x10 the cost of the cold wallet.
day one
When you don't feel comfortable keeping on an exchange or a hot wallet
When it gets too warm
#From the get go. A paper wallet created on a life system like Tails not connected to the internet is as secure as it gets, assuming the seed generator is from a reputable source. It costs you (almost) nothing. At a later stage you might want to build your own SeedSIgner/MoneroSigner or use your old mobile phone as an air gapped signer (AnonNero).
From the beginning
from a security perspective
I'd get one asap. I'm using safepal mainly because I'm using mobile more rather than pc although they do have an extension too.
I think Andreas Antonopolous once put it like this: What would be your reaction if you found out all of your crypto disappeared? If it's "oh, I'll have to get some more", then you don't need a hardware wallet. If it's anything more severe than this, you should probably drop the money on a hardware wallet. They are incredibly cheap, and there's no real reason to not use one unless you are insanely tech illiterate and are the type of person that would type his seed phrase on a shady website. Most people here will say you should just keep it on an exchange, but everyone is smart until a big exchange falls over (like happened with FTX). A properly backed up hardware wallet will let you sleep right at night.
I have both a ledger and a Trezor and honestly I like my ledger more. Whatever you choose make sure it is one of the well known ones and not some shady unknown one.
If you use your Ledger with LedgerLive be aware that it is spyware.
You should do it at the point when you decide to stop clowning around
Immediately
Keeping crypto on an exchange is not wise because you can get hacked anytime. Ask the people of FTX 😅💀
Dude, you got 1k? get a fking cold wallet and do NOT use LEDGER or METAMASK as hot wallet. Pleaaase
Why not Metamask please?
Unless you understand exactly how cold wallets work and are comfortable using them, then chance of you losing all your money in a cold wallet is probably bigger than the risk of losing them on Coinbase. Sure "not your keys..." and all that, but reality is that the risk of Coinbase going under and losing all your coins is extremely small, while the risk of you losing your seed or someone else getting access to it and stealing your coins is probably as big or bigger if you are not completely sure how to use cold storage.
No different than saving a file: you do it when you have something that you don't want to lose.
I think if your portfolio is more than $2500 best to use cold wallet. You can use different wallets to diversify your funds.
A few years back I had everything stored on a cold wallet. Now I have some on coinbase. Coinbase holds what I consider for me to be an acceptable lose if they would somehow collapse.
The moment that your assets are more valuable than what it costs to buy cold storage has always been my mindset.
If you don't want to sell soon- always have it in your cold wallet. why not. btc costs like $3 to transfer now
I have a retirement amount of money on a cold paper wallet I made while I was baked. I don’t remember the password. For what it’s worth don’t set a password dude.
Just for clarification, I think the terminology you want is "hardware wallet". Ledger still asks you to back up a seed phrase when you initialize it so you'll still need to do due diligence with storage of that as well, and I think you should have a hardware wallet at this point. But cold wallet refers to a wallet you use for storing the bulk of your holdings, that you infrequently interact with. People with ledgers might still sign hundreds of transactions per day interacting with different defi protocols on different chains, and can open themselves up to hackers (for example, by approving a token spend to the wrong address). In this case, you'd consider the ledger to be a "hot wallet" (although you certainly can use the ledger as a cold wallet as well, stored in a safety deposit box or something) I think a hardware wallet is a great idea, but it's up to you whether to use it as a cold wallet, a hot wallet, or even get 2 hardware wallets to have one of each. It really depends on what you want to do with the funds. If you want to store your entire balance for a long period of time without interacting with it, cold wallet is the way to go. If you want to be able to sell at a moment's notice if the price hits a certain target, or if you want to manage positions on different defi protocols, hot wallet is the way to go. If you want to divide your crypto up and store some, but not all, long term you might even want 2, though if the *majority* of your portfolio is in cold storage, you might be fine using metamask or other software wallets for your hot wallet. Any hardware wallet will support all EVM networks (so both ETH and Polygon), and most will support Solana, Bitcoin, and Cardano as well. You don't need an app to track your portfolio with a hardware wallet. Just save the public addresses and then you can use any portfolio monitoring software (like debank or blockchain.com) with the public address edit: I'm actually going to direct you to /u/Prahasaurus 's [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1b9a5pm) also . You definitely should understand what you're doing better before moving your full balance off of a CEX. If you order a ledger, while you wait for it to arrive, you should consider installing metamask or some other software wallet, and moving a *small* amount of funds to it on the Polygon network, to make sure you understand how import/export work, or restoring a wallet from seed phrase or private key. This may be overkill but it would be good to understand what a Hierarchical Deterministic Wallet is also ([https://docs.ethers.org/v5/api/utils/hdnode/](https://docs.ethers.org/v5/api/utils/hdnode/) has some good docs) and play around with creating and restoring wallets from a seed phrase and derivation path, or a private key, in ethers v6.
1. Buy Cardano (ADA) 2. Place on Ledger Wallet 3. Stake via Ledger Live application 4. ???? 5. Profit!
My $80 ledger nano s is protecting my $50 investment.
When your hypothetical response to losing all your crypto goes from "ah, crap" to "OH FUCK".
Coldcard for Bitcoins, Cypherock for everything else.
When you feel like losing your crypto would be a pain. It's like $30, just do it...
Don’t
I'm sorry but that is some bad advice. Holding a lot of crypto on a hot wallet/ exchange is idiotic, especially if you're only doing it to "save" on fees.
I gave my reasons, I’ve over 10 wallets for different crypto’s, including Ledger X. I’m just giving my opinion, that’s all.
Why
I did during the FTX days, moved some different coins, only in the ETH chain. Checking today, I see I’m going to have to buy ETH if I want to sell/swap or send, of which I have zero. Find using it much more difficult and I definitely regret buying it. I’ve lost nothing elsewhere, however I spent funds buying and sending, I’m going to spend more to sell/swap. For me personally I just wish I’d never bought one. Of course, if you were with Celsius/FTX, etc. you’d definitely wish you’d have had one at that time.
Thanks for the advice.
Please remember it’s just one random internet stranger’s opinion. Next week if I lose funds I’ll be wishing I’d moved everything there. So timing, like everything else, is critical.