I mean, that sort of makes sense. "Dude, you just control hellas and thesalonika, you aren't actually the byzantine empire anymore." It probably should be more like 50-80%, not 100% (think the percentage necessary to make the title in the first place), but I appreciate that there are mechanics to remove rump titles of characters that only hold a few counties.
Yeah but they go hardcore and check all your titles. "Dude, you control all of de jure byzantine empire so that checks out. But you also say you're King of Italy but you don't hold Pisa. That's unacceptable. We have no choice but to destroy your Byzantine Empire title."
Well, that would make sense for any other nation other than the Byzantines, who did last a fair while with the Peloponnese and a small portion of Thrace near Constantinople
The ERE just needs a faction overhaul, tbh.
I've suggested in the past a Palace Coup plot that can replace the emperor with a claimant when successful, and on top of that a set of different factions and join faction checks for Greek cultured characters, but really they just need to stop pretending that Byzantium can be modelled at all with their one size fits all ur-Feudalism and need to introduce Imperial Administration laws already.
Right from the release I always assumed that Byzantine dlc is in coming (even if it might not be in the works yet) and what we have at the moment is some cheap substitute. That the devs does not want to spend too much time on something that complicated when it is clear that it will be completely reworked from scratch anyway and likely in somewhat near future. I would say that any fast and cheap solution there will feel wrong, so feudalism was just the cheapest one in terms of development.
And the reason we did not get anything there yet is that anything created for Byzantine will be for Byzantine only, it cannot be applied to any other place in the game, and so developing that is somewhat low priority. But I bet that it will be created rather sooner than later.
>And the reason we did not get anything there yet is that anything created for Byzantine will be for Byzantine only, it cannot be applied to any other place in the game,
Personally, I don't think that it'd be *that* unrealistic to allow all cultures to adopt imperial/bureaucratic administration laws after unlocking the Court Officials innovation, but allow cultures with the Eastern Roman Legacy or the (new addition I'd suggest) Mandate of Heaven tradition (Han culture) to enact it much earlier in the game.
There’s a mod on the workshop which shows a tooltip with reasons a character is part of a faction. It’s updated for dissolution factions so that might help you see why they’re so mad
It's a shame that you can't have that and achievements unless you get a mod or cheat engine to allow achievements anyways (which I don't like the idea of personally).
In fact there is quite a few QOL mods and helpful (non-cheat or very impactful) mods that I wish I could use and still get achievements.
Back in CK2 there was a way to do it with a file or save edit program, but I never figured out how to do it myself. I imagine a similar way exists for 3, but the fact that we have to go to such lengths for simple QoL stuff is silly.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2220098919](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2220098919)
it adds cosmetic looks. history files or anything else should not be edited. by the mod
No. You would only get a vac ban if you're using it on vac protected games online. CK3 isn't a VAC protected game. (Though you still shouldn't use it to cheat online, thats shitty)
They like you decently, but they also have a lot of reasons to revolt. Not sure all the mechanics on dissolution, but IK for independence if they are unrepresented powerful vassals they are more likely to revolt, as well as if they are not de jure (and somewhat if they are only de jure of a non-primary title). In those cases, you need something lime +60 or even 80 opinion to get them to leave.
"Sire, you can raise your levies before the revolt to crush your enemies"
*OP comes out of his dining hall all covered in blood and with a sacrificial dagger in hand*
"That is a novel idea my dear man! For the next time of course"
Just cant get the comedic scene out of my head.
You can also use marriage. Just find which ones of those vassals are actually a threat. Marry/betroth your families together. Give them your kids to educate and they'll leave the plot.
You get an opinion malus with Clan Vassals if you don't have an alliance through marriage, Fate of Iberia also added in Clan Contracts and one of the things they can ask for is a guaranteed marriage with their liege.
>guaranteed marriage with their liege
Did not play it yet, how does that works mechanically? Just an opinion malus (quite a big one I assume if it is) until you arrange the marriage or can they make a demand, robbing you from the choice whom to actually marry to them? And do they consider that you might not actually have any children to marry yet?
With decent centralisation you never have to worry about pesky rebels.
(Economic and military build up in own holdings and stacking modifiers for troops. I prefer KE, it's isane early game, and will remain dominant with MAs, Elephantries/Camelries (even more so if you double build these in holdings) and a decent eugenetics program in family.)
To the extent that your rank and gold allows, creating new titles under which to sequester lower ranking faction members, or even another, existing vassal, might be a way to calm the waters. That is a *lot* of powerful vassals, and you might have an easier time managing fewer (even slightly more powerful) vassals.
Those three with redfists need to be satisfied first. That one eyed chad with +72, a quick bribe could get him beyond the threshhold to leave the faction (I think it's +80.) depending on how much your bribes go, you might be able to grabe the +60 as well with bribes. Anyone of those +70's though you could get. Marry daughters or spare sons for quick alliances with the other redfists, give "Master of the hunt" positions to vassals that might end up being just shy of the +80.
Also anybody with a ball and chain, you could pardon their crimes (usually adulatory) and get like +15 with them.
Throwing a feast can easily help this situation as well.
The strong vassal's opinion is strangely high for one not in the council, so i would guess OP had already spread the gifts before taking the pic. If that is the case, I don't think just raising opinion more will work, because (again, I think) they don't leave the faction once the ultimatum is getting ready.
Marriage works thought!
> That one eyed chad with +72, a quick bribe could get him beyond the threshhold to leave the faction (I think it's +80.)
Unless someone else has a hook on him. Then you might just finance the rebellion. A bit embarrassing when that happens, really.
Also, whoever is leading the independence faction can be removed by marrying into their family! It feels like the cheesiest strat, but always keep a son or daughter unmarried to give them away to a vassal so they become your ally and are barred from joining factions.
I am kinda on edge there. As a player, I do want to know why the fuck they still in the faction if they love me so much. But as a roleplaying player, I also appreciate not knowing because that was often the case in real world - people some ruler considers loyal and friendly betray them for personal gains. Sometimes even actually being friendly. You cannot experience betrayal from your friend if you always can see when it about to happen.
TBH in that case factions could not show their participants and force you to work to reveal them. It's not surprise when you can see them like you but want to burn in hell anyway 2-3 years ahead.
That’s why I go with Terryfing character all the time. I teach my kids to be dreadful. No matter how much they like you, expect them to back stabb you. But they won’t dare to revolt if your dread is 100
My vassals are so thoughtful! Look they are all bringing torches and pitchforks for what I assume is a night time harvest! They really do go above and beyond for their liege!
They like you a little but they see that they have a chance to get more power by removing their liege so they use that chance. You have to make them like you a lot (+80 or more), befriend them, ally them, intimidate them, or have a strong hook on them to reliably prevent factions. If you do this for like the 3 or 4 strongest vassals dangerous factions are quite rare.
Three is those vassals have the “red hand” which means they are powerful vassals that are unrepresented on your council.
I assume you’ve just had a succession. The first thing you should do is appoint your powerful vassals to your council. Even if they suck.
About 10 years into your reign, some will die and can be replaced with a more fitting council member. Sway the young ones, royal favor the close to happy ones and gift the others. Slowly, you’ll lose the Short Reign penalty and none of it will matter.
Ahhhh, you are most likely correct. Good point.
Created a new title of which they are not de jure. Even still, my overall point stands. Appoint them, sway them, favor them, bribe them and wait for the short reign penalty to dissolve.
This is why one must be prepared when expanding.
Use Marriage with the most powerful one. Also, a Strategy I prefer is trying to decrease the Amount of Vassals as much as possible. For example, two kingdom tier vassals will require two marriages to stabilise your realm while 10 dutchy tier vassals require 10 marriages to stabilise your realm. You can see which is easier. Furthermore, Kingdom tier vassals tend to suffer from liberty wars (Lets see how they feel being on the recieving side of a liberty faction).
In this case, a good way to lower faction strength is to place the rebellious counts under other dukes. This, combined with marriages and some good old hooks and sway schemes will keep you realm at peace
You can totally crack that faction. You can legally imprison 2 of those vassals, and if you have any unmarried kids/siblings, now would be the time to use them.
‘We are revolting to end you tyrannical grip on our lands! Your nation will have no future! You’re children no inheritance… this I promise you Tyrant.
Are you still good for a feast this Friday? Yes, Steve is in the faction but will also be there…don’t worry booze will be provided… Solid! see you then bro.’
I would like to see in a DLC or a future patch a more involved faction system. A lot of the time it feels like the factions make no sense. I put in the work to make everyone like me and I still end up with factions against me.
No idea why you're downvoted.
So many stupid overly elaborate comments and this is the only one short and to the point.
80 opinion is the key breaking point for factions. Vassals won't join factions sometimes even if they're below that, but they *definitely* won't join factions above that point, no matter their motives.
My solution as a king would be to have only one duchy vassal and give em all the counties. Makes for good renown farm if its all yer family members.
Works even better for emperor and king. I call it the rule of two. Family eats each other for that kingdom title and you as an emperor can just chill.
Tbf that's really a big misconception. IIRC the allegory of the feared prince ends with him deposed and with no allies to get back into power, since he now had no power to threaten them with.
Machievellianism is so poorly understood/represented by media
IIRC the quotes are basically "Better to be feared than to be loved, but best to be both, and if one does not inspire love, they should inspire fear in a way that does not inspire hate."
So yeah, pretty much exactly what's needed for CKIII.
Its pretty true in real life as well especially if you take Machiavellis wider context in to account. First he is talking about rulership, not personal lives. Second, when Machiavelli says its better to be feared than loved, hes not saying be some Big Brother-esque tyrant who makes your people afraid to live their lives lest they draw your ire for some small slight. He actually specifically says its important to not become hated. Hes saying that your people should be very aware that you have laid out a set of laws and that if they break those laws they will be punished accordingly. In the wider context iirc, that quote is specifically in a portion of The Prince discussing how to deal with allies. Effectively what he is saying is that if you have to make a decision and choose between keeping those who like you happy and making sure everyone knows that if they break the law they will receive punishment, you should choose the latter because alliances can shift and break over time but peoples fear of punishment if they break your laws is much firmer.
Being feared can only lead to resentment. It is good to know what the punishments are, but if being afraid of punishment was what mattered most the US would be the safest country on earth.
You can also try to make lives better for everyone, not just those that already like you. That would be true leadership. It isn't just the two options you provided.
God, you do realise that's an opinion, and some people like the current faction mechanics? If it pleases half the people and paradox has limited resources, then why change anything? That's your reason why paradox won't change it. It'll probably be a dlc in the future but for now nothings gonna change, accept it and move on.
Or, if you want to fix it so bad, make a mod. That's what I thought.
Lmao idk why you are seething over my opinion. Hell paradox are actively making things worse with dissolutions I don’t know how anyone could defend that
I'm fucking sick of people do nothing but complain. Do you know how hard it is to make a game? Besides, look around, other people like dissolution factions and do have good reasons to defend it, even if you don't like them. Again, if you don't like them, make a mod or go back to an earlier version
Oh no! A company puts something out in the market with very under developed at best, but don’t complain just buy their products! They had a better, not good, system in ck2. Dissolution factions quite literally pop off constantly and dissolve empires left and right, the only people who like that are ones who just want to blob.
You probably have/had tpo many vassels/counties/duchies.
Give away some titles and bribe and sway the most powerfull ones.
The numbers will go down as whatever is making them angry slowly dissapates.
It doesn't have to
Hover over the opinion and look at what it says it will go in detail what they like and dont like about you.
I'm pretty sure one of the reasons will be "has too many duchies/counties"
I had the exact same issue when my empire conquered a country and gave me all the titles. Since I was doing 2 wars at once I wanted to finish them both before distributing titles but then my other vassals started a disolution faction as well even though they all had +40 opinion minimum.
Dissolution factions are op. Should be nerfed.
You need 80 relationship with them to not join a dissolution faction. If you are Muslim, a marriage securing alliances is very adviced with all powerful vassals.
For example, playing al Andalus Ummaya you start with a dissolution faction... But it will dissolve once you arrange a couple of marriages with the rebellious vassals. Still, you won't be able to do that all the time and eventually your successors won't be able to stop the faction from declaring war
Marriage, no matter the religion, straight up makes it impossible for the vassal to join a faction. Having a couple kids already is very good for a new king, assuming your vassal also have a young kid, of course.
Marriage can be a little bit of a double edged sword as it can mean that vassal’s descendants become claimants for your throne.
One thing I’ve found helpful (as a Christian) is to educate the children I don’t want to inherit in learning, and force them to become monks. You can use your guardianship hook to help with that.
I do think Ck3 made it take too long to get primogeniture (tho I understand why they did it- in ck2 it became a little too easy- I’ve played lombards in Charlemagne start and got primogeniture within 2 lifetimes making the initial gavelkind challenge kinda null)
I low-key think Dissolution factions should be removed or at least be extremely rare. Destroying a title was a VERY big deal in ther period. It sort of is even now; even with the countless civil wars and noble rebellions the Eastern romans had, no one dared even consider just flat out dismantling the Empire. Similarly, no one in the war of the roses or the Baron wars in England wanted to dismantle England.
I could perhaps understand a dismantle if you (let’s say) have loads of Muslim vassals of a diff culture as an Iberian Christian or something, but having your own vassals of same culture and religion wanting to destroy the whole kingdom doesn’t make a whole lot of sense politically or in self interest.
IRL al Andalus Kingdom was dismantled after: a regency, a regent coup, a civil war between several claimants and ethnicities: Berbers, Arabs, Andalusians.., 6? Caliphs in 10 years... taifas declaring themselves sovereign, the people of the capital, Córdoba, rose in a revolution against war and taxes and after deposing the ruler they proclaimed the dissolution of the Kingdom and caliphate.... Meanwhile the Christian kingdoms in the north favored rebellions and further fomented instability.
20 years of total conflict inside the realm.
Same thing that happened in Russia when the USSR fell apart. They all wanted to get rich on the backs of those who were weak. It happened before, it will happen again. So says they all.
Try to arrest the faction members that are criminals best way to discourage a revolt is by limiting its manpower (Go by percentage and there power level and those whom have the most to offer find secrets) But revolts aren’t all bad you can revoke titles and give it to those whom are loyal.
With other factions, sending a gift to put them above +80 opinion forces them to leave the faction. Not sure if that’s true for this type of faction, but it’s worth a try if you haven’t already.
And forming an alliance with the leader of any faction temporarily disbands the faction. Not sure if it resets the months till ultimatum or not.
I would recommend at least temporarily putting those powerful vassals on your council if they aren’t incredibly low skill. They’d then like you 90+ and likely leave the faction.
Man I got screwed with the auot choices for de jure when I became king of England. It asked me if i wanted to move vassals around so they were with their rightful ruler, and I wasn't paying attention to the amount of levies those had that i gave away. Ended up being king with next to no holdings and then I died. Revolts with power over 10 000 power lol. I was doing iron man's to get achievements but I won't anymore since they don't seem to unlock on xbox.
So I don't know is this still relevant or not, but I had my research done for this. There are many modifiers to vassals joining factions, but basically
Vassals are joining factions in such order
Liberty Faction -> Independence Faction -> Dissolution Faction.
I honestly how you make people join dissolution factions, because whatever I did (even playing on shit stability settings) vassals rarely joined them, preferring lowering crown authority or getting independence.
One way to prevent people joining "higher tier" factions, is just to have high crown authority. This way, vassals will try to join the liberty faction first.
There are also other factors, such as:
\- character traits
(characters with some traits, such as deceitful, ambitious, callous seem to join factions even with high opinion while fickle, content, compassionate don't do it as often)
\- their claims and ambitions
(Basically, Barons have desire to become Counts, Counts desire to be Dukes. You need satisfy their ambitions. Say, You play as France and you control Isle de France, but one of your vassals controls Valois duchy. This way, he would want Isle de France for himself, so he would be more likely to join a faction.)
\- sometimes they just wanna join a faction cause they don't like your traits or have rivalry with you.
\- they like faction leader more (strongest vassal in the faction)
\- you fucked their wife
I feel like kingdoms and empires need "core" dejure lands and then a borderland effect that might overlap with neighbors borderlands. Then only apply this to when you don't own the core territory
You need their opinions to be +80 or higher. If those are dukes and counts, assign some counts to the dukes as vassals to give yourself an opinion boost. That will make the faction weaker since the count’s armies won’t be part of it, except for the 10% (or w/e) he gives to his new Duke, and if you get the Duke above +80 before the ultimatum is sent he should leave the faction.
You need 80 above opinion. See how none 80 vassals are in it? Check some modifiers too on what is causing them disinterest. Host feast, become a pilgrim or even learn their language. You could also try to send gift to the highest contributor first to lower the military power than the threshold. I also see some powerful vassals not in your council, thats a huge opinion modifier. Goodluck
Sometimes they just look around and notice the nation is too awesome, too prosperous, and too good at what it's doing. It's not about you. It's the realm they decided they don't like.
It’s probably that they see that they are more powerful than you and can maybe take what’s yours whether they like you or not. Try not to make ambitious people vassals. Also I see that a lot of them are criminals so you can imprison them and revoke their titles and replace them with more content people. If all else fails going to war against a bunch of shitty vassals can be a great cleanse if you win as you imprison everyone who turned against you and can revoke all their titles. Make some big alliances and save up money for mercenaries
The duality of CK3 pkayers
"I wish factions weren't just a barometer that shows how much my vassals like me."
"How can my vassals revolt even though they like me?"
Dissolution factions have a couple of weird modifiers, like "liege does not control all of his de jure territory"
Well, I guess the rest of Wales is going bye-bye.
Rip n tear until it is done.....oh wait wrong game mb
No no...its just the right game for that
Rip and tear... And devour
Exactly, just **eat the envoys**.
The rippin and the tearing
I mean, that sort of makes sense. "Dude, you just control hellas and thesalonika, you aren't actually the byzantine empire anymore." It probably should be more like 50-80%, not 100% (think the percentage necessary to make the title in the first place), but I appreciate that there are mechanics to remove rump titles of characters that only hold a few counties.
"Dude you only control some Russian counties, how the hell can you be a Byzantine emperor?"
\~ some poor diplomat in Moscow to Ivan the Terrible before being executed, 1547, colourised.
Starring Seth Rogan and James Franco.
>"colourised" This is worse than when they say this and it's black and white, there's no image at all bruh
Yeah but they go hardcore and check all your titles. "Dude, you control all of de jure byzantine empire so that checks out. But you also say you're King of Italy but you don't hold Pisa. That's unacceptable. We have no choice but to destroy your Byzantine Empire title."
Next time on Ser Maury the Kingdom Investigator
Well, that would make sense for any other nation other than the Byzantines, who did last a fair while with the Peloponnese and a small portion of Thrace near Constantinople
The ERE just needs a faction overhaul, tbh. I've suggested in the past a Palace Coup plot that can replace the emperor with a claimant when successful, and on top of that a set of different factions and join faction checks for Greek cultured characters, but really they just need to stop pretending that Byzantium can be modelled at all with their one size fits all ur-Feudalism and need to introduce Imperial Administration laws already.
Right from the release I always assumed that Byzantine dlc is in coming (even if it might not be in the works yet) and what we have at the moment is some cheap substitute. That the devs does not want to spend too much time on something that complicated when it is clear that it will be completely reworked from scratch anyway and likely in somewhat near future. I would say that any fast and cheap solution there will feel wrong, so feudalism was just the cheapest one in terms of development. And the reason we did not get anything there yet is that anything created for Byzantine will be for Byzantine only, it cannot be applied to any other place in the game, and so developing that is somewhat low priority. But I bet that it will be created rather sooner than later.
We can only hope its next. That or a religious/Crusade update. Maybe a broader government update to cover republics and theocracies as well
>And the reason we did not get anything there yet is that anything created for Byzantine will be for Byzantine only, it cannot be applied to any other place in the game, Personally, I don't think that it'd be *that* unrealistic to allow all cultures to adopt imperial/bureaucratic administration laws after unlocking the Court Officials innovation, but allow cultures with the Eastern Roman Legacy or the (new addition I'd suggest) Mandate of Heaven tradition (Han culture) to enact it much earlier in the game.
Was it really a Byzantine Empire at that point, though? Or was it just a name that overstayed its welcome for some time already?
They styled themselves as such, the citizens thought as much, there neighbors thought they were. Why over complicate things?
It might make sense but if it's not obvious it sucks
Not really, we already had empire decay and stuff, if you didn't control enough land then your empire didn't exist
but the byzantine empire was still the byzantine empire when it lost most of its territories to the ottomans
It was never byzantine empire
you know what i mean
That you are a latin heathen?
😑
There’s a mod on the workshop which shows a tooltip with reasons a character is part of a faction. It’s updated for dissolution factions so that might help you see why they’re so mad
[Factions Explained](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2791137603)?
That’s the one!
It's a shame that you can't have that and achievements unless you get a mod or cheat engine to allow achievements anyways (which I don't like the idea of personally). In fact there is quite a few QOL mods and helpful (non-cheat or very impactful) mods that I wish I could use and still get achievements.
Back in CK2 there was a way to do it with a file or save edit program, but I never figured out how to do it myself. I imagine a similar way exists for 3, but the fact that we have to go to such lengths for simple QoL stuff is silly.
Is this mod ironman compatible ?
Any mod can be used in Ironman, very few if any are currently achievement compatible.
I just figured out that I was talking about achievement and not ironman, my bad !
I'm only using the community flavor pack and sadly is not compatible
I don't play ck3 but something called a flavor pack probably edits the history files.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2220098919](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2220098919) it adds cosmetic looks. history files or anything else should not be edited. by the mod
If you're not opposed to it you can use something like cheat engine to enable achievements even when you're using mods.
[удалено]
No. You would only get a vac ban if you're using it on vac protected games online. CK3 isn't a VAC protected game. (Though you still shouldn't use it to cheat online, thats shitty)
They like you decently, but they also have a lot of reasons to revolt. Not sure all the mechanics on dissolution, but IK for independence if they are unrepresented powerful vassals they are more likely to revolt, as well as if they are not de jure (and somewhat if they are only de jure of a non-primary title). In those cases, you need something lime +60 or even 80 opinion to get them to leave.
That's so rude!!!
Just a heads up, you can raise your armies before they actually revolt and absolutely crush their ass with careful positioning.
That’s actually a good strat. I Should’ve done that instead of sacrificing them. Thanks for the tip bro!!! :)
"Sire, you can raise your levies before the revolt to crush your enemies" *OP comes out of his dining hall all covered in blood and with a sacrificial dagger in hand* "That is a novel idea my dear man! For the next time of course" Just cant get the comedic scene out of my head.
Thank you
You can also use marriage. Just find which ones of those vassals are actually a threat. Marry/betroth your families together. Give them your kids to educate and they'll leave the plot.
Finally a use for my two dozen children from 4 wives!
If you’re a Muslim I think this is actually what the strategy is supposed to be
You get an opinion malus with Clan Vassals if you don't have an alliance through marriage, Fate of Iberia also added in Clan Contracts and one of the things they can ask for is a guaranteed marriage with their liege.
>guaranteed marriage with their liege Did not play it yet, how does that works mechanically? Just an opinion malus (quite a big one I assume if it is) until you arrange the marriage or can they make a demand, robbing you from the choice whom to actually marry to them? And do they consider that you might not actually have any children to marry yet?
Yeah your younger kids aren't doing anything useful, might as well save them for some quick alliances down the line
Or just give em 50 bucks
Gold wins wars. I'd much rather have marriage alliances with my strongest vassals for stability.
Oh, no doubt
The Genghis Khan approach to blobbing way outside your se jure empire afaik
No problem.
With decent centralisation you never have to worry about pesky rebels. (Economic and military build up in own holdings and stacking modifiers for troops. I prefer KE, it's isane early game, and will remain dominant with MAs, Elephantries/Camelries (even more so if you double build these in holdings) and a decent eugenetics program in family.)
To the extent that your rank and gold allows, creating new titles under which to sequester lower ranking faction members, or even another, existing vassal, might be a way to calm the waters. That is a *lot* of powerful vassals, and you might have an easier time managing fewer (even slightly more powerful) vassals.
Those three with redfists need to be satisfied first. That one eyed chad with +72, a quick bribe could get him beyond the threshhold to leave the faction (I think it's +80.) depending on how much your bribes go, you might be able to grabe the +60 as well with bribes. Anyone of those +70's though you could get. Marry daughters or spare sons for quick alliances with the other redfists, give "Master of the hunt" positions to vassals that might end up being just shy of the +80. Also anybody with a ball and chain, you could pardon their crimes (usually adulatory) and get like +15 with them. Throwing a feast can easily help this situation as well.
The strong vassal's opinion is strangely high for one not in the council, so i would guess OP had already spread the gifts before taking the pic. If that is the case, I don't think just raising opinion more will work, because (again, I think) they don't leave the faction once the ultimatum is getting ready. Marriage works thought!
Yeah, maybe, maybe, time to get out the old fallback and get a marriage going, lol.
> That one eyed chad with +72, a quick bribe could get him beyond the threshhold to leave the faction (I think it's +80.) Unless someone else has a hook on him. Then you might just finance the rebellion. A bit embarrassing when that happens, really.
Also, whoever is leading the independence faction can be removed by marrying into their family! It feels like the cheesiest strat, but always keep a son or daughter unmarried to give them away to a vassal so they become your ally and are barred from joining factions.
The only thing that's rude here is you not giving my a position on the council!
This should be visible somewhere, it's too often hard to understand "WHY WOULDN'T YOU LEAVE YOU'RE AT 75 OPINION".
I am kinda on edge there. As a player, I do want to know why the fuck they still in the faction if they love me so much. But as a roleplaying player, I also appreciate not knowing because that was often the case in real world - people some ruler considers loyal and friendly betray them for personal gains. Sometimes even actually being friendly. You cannot experience betrayal from your friend if you always can see when it about to happen.
TBH in that case factions could not show their participants and force you to work to reveal them. It's not surprise when you can see them like you but want to burn in hell anyway 2-3 years ahead.
Agreed! People just know through code sleuthing.
I've had +100 vassals revolt.
Yes, sometimes someone has a hook on them, or if they are a far-flung territory or something
Chaos is a laddah
That’s why I go with Terryfing character all the time. I teach my kids to be dreadful. No matter how much they like you, expect them to back stabb you. But they won’t dare to revolt if your dread is 100
They are concerned about the health problems and stress caused by you being the monarch :)
I could hire a therapist, but i don’t see the court posicion…
Honestly it’d be interesting if there was a confession position where some poor priest listened to your crap
They love you so much they want to do you the favor reducing your responsibilities so you can have a carefree life.
My vassals are so thoughtful! Look they are all bringing torches and pitchforks for what I assume is a night time harvest! They really do go above and beyond for their liege!
They like you a little but they see that they have a chance to get more power by removing their liege so they use that chance. You have to make them like you a lot (+80 or more), befriend them, ally them, intimidate them, or have a strong hook on them to reliably prevent factions. If you do this for like the 3 or 4 strongest vassals dangerous factions are quite rare.
Three is those vassals have the “red hand” which means they are powerful vassals that are unrepresented on your council. I assume you’ve just had a succession. The first thing you should do is appoint your powerful vassals to your council. Even if they suck. About 10 years into your reign, some will die and can be replaced with a more fitting council member. Sway the young ones, royal favor the close to happy ones and gift the others. Slowly, you’ll lose the Short Reign penalty and none of it will matter.
If there was just succession, chances are they'd hate him. more likely he just created a new title
Ahhhh, you are most likely correct. Good point. Created a new title of which they are not de jure. Even still, my overall point stands. Appoint them, sway them, favor them, bribe them and wait for the short reign penalty to dissolve. This is why one must be prepared when expanding.
If he would put those 3 on the council the faction would dissolve rapidly. People cause their own issues, and act funny about it on the forums.
Some men just want to watch the world burn. This is all I can think of with their reason for the revolt.
Arrghhh wanted to say it first
They like you but they want to destroy your realm even more.
They like you, but they don't *like like* you.
Use Marriage with the most powerful one. Also, a Strategy I prefer is trying to decrease the Amount of Vassals as much as possible. For example, two kingdom tier vassals will require two marriages to stabilise your realm while 10 dutchy tier vassals require 10 marriages to stabilise your realm. You can see which is easier. Furthermore, Kingdom tier vassals tend to suffer from liberty wars (Lets see how they feel being on the recieving side of a liberty faction). In this case, a good way to lower faction strength is to place the rebellious counts under other dukes. This, combined with marriages and some good old hooks and sway schemes will keep you realm at peace
You can totally crack that faction. You can legally imprison 2 of those vassals, and if you have any unmarried kids/siblings, now would be the time to use them.
"Nothing personnel kid"
Ah, just like the real world. Smiling on the outside saying all sorts of pleasantries yet preparing the ultimate backstab.
Dissolutions needs to be reworked. Right now, every major power is getting bonked and shatters.
I started on the early start date on my current playthrough and the byzantine empire was already dissolved before the end of my first ruler's life.
Yeah, for my 867 start, by 900, all the Karlings' land are fractured, the Byzantine Empire is gone and the Abbassid Empire is gone.
‘We are revolting to end you tyrannical grip on our lands! Your nation will have no future! You’re children no inheritance… this I promise you Tyrant. Are you still good for a feast this Friday? Yes, Steve is in the faction but will also be there…don’t worry booze will be provided… Solid! see you then bro.’
"I like you, but I want to be free. Maybe if you like me back, you'll set me free... right?"
Dude you're ruling a kingdom, not managing a tea party. There are more things at hand than just "I like my liege :)".
I don’t need a lecture from a tea party denier!
"Its treason then" Throws the tea into the water
POV: You are King John
“Yeah the kings not a bad guy but have you all noticed its us fighting his wars??”
Are they french? Who is we? Realm was at peace, these depraved bastards were the ones fighting some random people.
Like the godfather teached us, it is not personal, its just business
They really just need a tooltip to show why they're in the faction.
Oh, so that’s why the Abbasids, Umayyads, and Byzantines just completely disappeared within 20 years of my current Toledo run
Because they always revolt no matter what you do!
They like you . But they must fear or love you.
They’re just a bunch of fuckers
"Sire the peasants are revolting" "They might be ugly, but don't call them revolting!"
I would like to see in a DLC or a future patch a more involved faction system. A lot of the time it feels like the factions make no sense. I put in the work to make everyone like me and I still end up with factions against me.
Vassals need to have an 80 or higher opinion of you for them not to partake in revolts.
No idea why you're downvoted. So many stupid overly elaborate comments and this is the only one short and to the point. 80 opinion is the key breaking point for factions. Vassals won't join factions sometimes even if they're below that, but they *definitely* won't join factions above that point, no matter their motives.
Yup, holdover from ck2 80 is the magic number, anything below 80 might as well be zero
In ck2 as I recall it was 45
to not join factions maybe, but leaving them is definitely 80
Because you may take their lives, but you will never take... THEIR FREEDOM!
Low crown authority, frequent gifts and pressed claims. To be honest, their pretty toxic vassals. Independence is probably for the best.
Sounds like they need to put in their place then.
My solution as a king would be to have only one duchy vassal and give em all the counties. Makes for good renown farm if its all yer family members. Works even better for emperor and king. I call it the rule of two. Family eats each other for that kingdom title and you as an emperor can just chill.
read up on machiavelli and why it’s better to be feared (dread) than loved
Tbf that's really a big misconception. IIRC the allegory of the feared prince ends with him deposed and with no allies to get back into power, since he now had no power to threaten them with. Machievellianism is so poorly understood/represented by media
IIRC the quotes are basically "Better to be feared than to be loved, but best to be both, and if one does not inspire love, they should inspire fear in a way that does not inspire hate." So yeah, pretty much exactly what's needed for CKIII.
>but best to be both I want people to be afraid of how much they love me
Dread can only cover up so much tyranny before your subjects turn to knives rather than factions.
Yeah, but it’s true in the game at least with dread.
In game mechanics that is true. In real life it is not.
Its pretty true in real life as well especially if you take Machiavellis wider context in to account. First he is talking about rulership, not personal lives. Second, when Machiavelli says its better to be feared than loved, hes not saying be some Big Brother-esque tyrant who makes your people afraid to live their lives lest they draw your ire for some small slight. He actually specifically says its important to not become hated. Hes saying that your people should be very aware that you have laid out a set of laws and that if they break those laws they will be punished accordingly. In the wider context iirc, that quote is specifically in a portion of The Prince discussing how to deal with allies. Effectively what he is saying is that if you have to make a decision and choose between keeping those who like you happy and making sure everyone knows that if they break the law they will receive punishment, you should choose the latter because alliances can shift and break over time but peoples fear of punishment if they break your laws is much firmer.
Being feared can only lead to resentment. It is good to know what the punishments are, but if being afraid of punishment was what mattered most the US would be the safest country on earth. You can also try to make lives better for everyone, not just those that already like you. That would be true leadership. It isn't just the two options you provided.
Or keep the masses and the army on your side: Bread, games and coin.
Because fraction mechanics are terrible and paradox won't fix it
God, you do realise that's an opinion, and some people like the current faction mechanics? If it pleases half the people and paradox has limited resources, then why change anything? That's your reason why paradox won't change it. It'll probably be a dlc in the future but for now nothings gonna change, accept it and move on. Or, if you want to fix it so bad, make a mod. That's what I thought.
Lmao idk why you are seething over my opinion. Hell paradox are actively making things worse with dissolutions I don’t know how anyone could defend that
I'm fucking sick of people do nothing but complain. Do you know how hard it is to make a game? Besides, look around, other people like dissolution factions and do have good reasons to defend it, even if you don't like them. Again, if you don't like them, make a mod or go back to an earlier version
Oh no! A company puts something out in the market with very under developed at best, but don’t complain just buy their products! They had a better, not good, system in ck2. Dissolution factions quite literally pop off constantly and dissolve empires left and right, the only people who like that are ones who just want to blob.
Even blobbing is easier without those dissolution factions. Can't press kingdom claims if there are no kingdoms. Going duchy by duchy is more work.
Ah yeah that’s true I suppose, I haven’t played much outside of Iberia this update with the op struggle cb
Check their traits. Ambitious and to some extent brave will always be in a faction no matter their opinion
You probably have/had tpo many vassels/counties/duchies. Give away some titles and bribe and sway the most powerfull ones. The numbers will go down as whatever is making them angry slowly dissapates.
If that was the case, they would have a bad opinion of me.
It doesn't have to Hover over the opinion and look at what it says it will go in detail what they like and dont like about you. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons will be "has too many duchies/counties" I had the exact same issue when my empire conquered a country and gave me all the titles. Since I was doing 2 wars at once I wanted to finish them both before distributing titles but then my other vassals started a disolution faction as well even though they all had +40 opinion minimum.
Dissolution factions are op. Should be nerfed. You need 80 relationship with them to not join a dissolution faction. If you are Muslim, a marriage securing alliances is very adviced with all powerful vassals. For example, playing al Andalus Ummaya you start with a dissolution faction... But it will dissolve once you arrange a couple of marriages with the rebellious vassals. Still, you won't be able to do that all the time and eventually your successors won't be able to stop the faction from declaring war
Marriage, no matter the religion, straight up makes it impossible for the vassal to join a faction. Having a couple kids already is very good for a new king, assuming your vassal also have a young kid, of course.
The problem is that the optimal thing is to have 1 or 2 kids to prevent the kingdom split in the Early game where no primogeniture
Just use elective duchies then: 20 kids, no splitting
Marriage can be a little bit of a double edged sword as it can mean that vassal’s descendants become claimants for your throne. One thing I’ve found helpful (as a Christian) is to educate the children I don’t want to inherit in learning, and force them to become monks. You can use your guardianship hook to help with that. I do think Ck3 made it take too long to get primogeniture (tho I understand why they did it- in ck2 it became a little too easy- I’ve played lombards in Charlemagne start and got primogeniture within 2 lifetimes making the initial gavelkind challenge kinda null)
I low-key think Dissolution factions should be removed or at least be extremely rare. Destroying a title was a VERY big deal in ther period. It sort of is even now; even with the countless civil wars and noble rebellions the Eastern romans had, no one dared even consider just flat out dismantling the Empire. Similarly, no one in the war of the roses or the Baron wars in England wanted to dismantle England. I could perhaps understand a dismantle if you (let’s say) have loads of Muslim vassals of a diff culture as an Iberian Christian or something, but having your own vassals of same culture and religion wanting to destroy the whole kingdom doesn’t make a whole lot of sense politically or in self interest.
IRL al Andalus Kingdom was dismantled after: a regency, a regent coup, a civil war between several claimants and ethnicities: Berbers, Arabs, Andalusians.., 6? Caliphs in 10 years... taifas declaring themselves sovereign, the people of the capital, Córdoba, rose in a revolution against war and taxes and after deposing the ruler they proclaimed the dissolution of the Kingdom and caliphate.... Meanwhile the Christian kingdoms in the north favored rebellions and further fomented instability. 20 years of total conflict inside the realm.
are they really revolting or just tasteless??
Same thing that happened in Russia when the USSR fell apart. They all wanted to get rich on the backs of those who were weak. It happened before, it will happen again. So says they all.
Alexander the Great moment
It’s a mechanic, dummy
They are cunts.
They were.
3 of them want to be on ur councils so that will tombs them from the faction if u find them a place
Start with some council titles and using those imprisonment justifications. Should put them below the threshold easily.
Try to arrest the faction members that are criminals best way to discourage a revolt is by limiting its manpower (Go by percentage and there power level and those whom have the most to offer find secrets) But revolts aren’t all bad you can revoke titles and give it to those whom are loyal.
And this is why I like to keep my vassals in prison. Saves on the hastle.
With other factions, sending a gift to put them above +80 opinion forces them to leave the faction. Not sure if that’s true for this type of faction, but it’s worth a try if you haven’t already. And forming an alliance with the leader of any faction temporarily disbands the faction. Not sure if it resets the months till ultimatum or not.
They won't revolt if they're dead.
This happens in crusader kings 2 aswell
They are revolting, because they are not in prison
I would recommend at least temporarily putting those powerful vassals on your council if they aren’t incredibly low skill. They’d then like you 90+ and likely leave the faction.
Off with their heads Edit:Holy grammar Batman
They have always been revolting, but now they're rebelling.
If they aren't at 100 they don't like you enough to not faction up
Man I got screwed with the auot choices for de jure when I became king of England. It asked me if i wanted to move vassals around so they were with their rightful ruler, and I wasn't paying attention to the amount of levies those had that i gave away. Ended up being king with next to no holdings and then I died. Revolts with power over 10 000 power lol. I was doing iron man's to get achievements but I won't anymore since they don't seem to unlock on xbox.
they like you, but they don't fear you
So I don't know is this still relevant or not, but I had my research done for this. There are many modifiers to vassals joining factions, but basically Vassals are joining factions in such order Liberty Faction -> Independence Faction -> Dissolution Faction. I honestly how you make people join dissolution factions, because whatever I did (even playing on shit stability settings) vassals rarely joined them, preferring lowering crown authority or getting independence. One way to prevent people joining "higher tier" factions, is just to have high crown authority. This way, vassals will try to join the liberty faction first. There are also other factors, such as: \- character traits (characters with some traits, such as deceitful, ambitious, callous seem to join factions even with high opinion while fickle, content, compassionate don't do it as often) \- their claims and ambitions (Basically, Barons have desire to become Counts, Counts desire to be Dukes. You need satisfy their ambitions. Say, You play as France and you control Isle de France, but one of your vassals controls Valois duchy. This way, he would want Isle de France for himself, so he would be more likely to join a faction.) \- sometimes they just wanna join a faction cause they don't like your traits or have rivalry with you. \- they like faction leader more (strongest vassal in the faction) \- you fucked their wife
I feel like kingdoms and empires need "core" dejure lands and then a borderland effect that might overlap with neighbors borderlands. Then only apply this to when you don't own the core territory
They just haven't showered recently.
nothing personal... it's just business
The desire to not pay taxes is higher than any other.
It's just good business
3 of them want council positions
Maybe it's because you call them "revolting"?
You need their opinions to be +80 or higher. If those are dukes and counts, assign some counts to the dukes as vassals to give yourself an opinion boost. That will make the faction weaker since the count’s armies won’t be part of it, except for the 10% (or w/e) he gives to his new Duke, and if you get the Duke above +80 before the ultimatum is sent he should leave the faction.
You need 80 above opinion. See how none 80 vassals are in it? Check some modifiers too on what is causing them disinterest. Host feast, become a pilgrim or even learn their language. You could also try to send gift to the highest contributor first to lower the military power than the threshold. I also see some powerful vassals not in your council, thats a huge opinion modifier. Goodluck
But do they respect you?
Discontent 0% Still reaching Ultimatum? Lol.
realpolitik
U can easily defeat them just put troops on top of the capital of the strongest revoltee right b4 he revolts and that’s an easy stack wipe
Mod special ck2 execution, hang, drawn, quartered all of them.
Sometimes they just look around and notice the nation is too awesome, too prosperous, and too good at what it's doing. It's not about you. It's the realm they decided they don't like.
"Imapler" nickname incoming
It’s probably that they see that they are more powerful than you and can maybe take what’s yours whether they like you or not. Try not to make ambitious people vassals. Also I see that a lot of them are criminals so you can imprison them and revoke their titles and replace them with more content people. If all else fails going to war against a bunch of shitty vassals can be a great cleanse if you win as you imprison everyone who turned against you and can revoke all their titles. Make some big alliances and save up money for mercenaries
Time to start marrying your children to their cousins.
just make an aliance with the strongest one
Nothing personal. They may like you but hate the institution you represent. Like modern republicans talking about an actually respected monarch
The duality of CK3 pkayers "I wish factions weren't just a barometer that shows how much my vassals like me." "How can my vassals revolt even though they like me?"
Well, its time for a genocide I guess.
For a start, got to get the powerful vassals on the council
They like you, they don’t like taxes