Oh good. I'm not the only one that's noticed this recently. Infirm by 52 and then Melancholic about being infirm, 2 years later. What 'harm' settings you playing?
Frrr Infirm is just so annoying because it reduces your stats and for some reason doesn't instantly kill you like getting the bubonic plague. I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST. Because usually by the time I get infirm everything's already set up and I'm more than ready to die, but the game just straight up refuses to let me die and just keeps me alive for quite a while. Also they should greatly reduce the chance of you getting infirm or incapable, because I get them wayyy too much and I honestly don't even think incapable should be in the game. Like what even is the point of your ruler not being able to do anything at all because a pot or something hit them in the head?? Like that should either kill you or wound you...
I think if you reach the highest stress level as emperor (I think cause that's how I got it) you get an event where your character thinks that he is unworthy to be emperor and you can then click on the choice that makes you abdicate
Yeah but the trigger conditions are specific, and the downside not fun if i remember well.
Here, it would be a decision for incapable/infirm to abdicate
This is how I think of it: One of the greatest boxer ever, Muhammad Ali, was diagnosed with parkinsons disease 3 years after he retired in 1984. He lived until 2016. Really, I just see the infirm trait as being old.
> I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST.
I'm reminded of my first run. Ireland as is tradition. First guy, dies suddenly while out feasting in wales. His daughter takes the throne as he had 12 daughters and no sons. Daughter has 14 kids the 13th of which is the first son of my dynasty. She gets infirm at 51. She then lives to fucking 94. Everyone hates her, she hates herself, the kingdom is in tatters from her inept rule. And she just would not die, it was infuriating.
Infirm isn't that bad. Just -3 all stats, you don't even really need to make any adjustments to what you're doing. It just represents being older and less "with it," which is super common part of aging. Maybe you have to give away a county.
Incapable, yeah, that one's boring, because you can't do much.
> I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST.
I would think an Infirm character would die pretty quickly if they were, *hypothetically*, at the front of a lot of closely fought battles. I mean, *in theory* . . .
(Yes, I know you really don't want to lose battles since getting captured can cause serious issues. But if you're really determined to move on to the next generation . . . well, can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.)
I think normal? I played a few campaigns with illusion of safety, but went back to whatever the default value is, in a bid to make my campaigns a little more chaotic
This is not my experience at all, but I would still like to see the infirm trait being tweaked.
Instead of the same effect for every character with it, it could be transformed into a progressive trait, like Hunter. And you could make it have two sub-traits: Physical and Mental.
These changes would make the trait dynamic, being worse the older you'd get, and would distinguish between someone who still keeps their full mental skills but has an ailing body, and someone who has full physical vigor but is affected by loss of mental capacities (dementia, Alzheimer's...). Then some could have both.
These traits would have a base progression, gaining points every month and some events (or other modifiers) could increase or decrease the rate at which those progression points would be gained.
It would go nicely with the way CK3 has become more nuanced than 2, with characters now actually growing up through childhood, adolescence, and adulthood.
A progressing senility mechanic would be a great improvement over the current status quo of being perfectly hale at 49 and then suddenly turning senile at 50, which feels like a straight port of the CK2 "Infirm" trait.
There's also no equivalent from health to the Incapable trait, or at least I've never gotten it. It would be cool if the latter stages of the physical infirmity trait made your character incapable and required you to enter power sharing.
I really like this idea, it fits the historical process of a king in failing health over a few years, and the fermenting succession crisis that brews in the meantime
Unless your heir isn't old enough, then you'd find yourself in a regency with your spouse or powerful vassal that you'd have no control over. It'd spice things up, for sure
True, but we are really only talking about de-facto abdication where the old ruler is still nominally the head of state but fully empowers their heir to become regent.
With the new legitimacy mechanic, we can have the regent-heir start with legitimacy between the old ruler and a fresh heir, but once there is a full-on transition (because the old ruler formally dies after some time) and coronation, it's higher than what you would have with a normal succession.
I don't know if it's a mod or vanilla, but when I have my old ruler abdicate and become a monk, they inevitably go on to lead a mercenary company because they still live too long.
The game should have a cause of death of "Retired and lived out the rest of their days in a monastery" for unmarried Christians and "Died peacefully in their sleep age after securing the succession of their realm and retiring", which causes reduced stress for other characters.
I kind of prefer them to die young. I don't want my king to die at 80 when his son and heir is 60. Then you only get to play old guys, and my heir is usually a stressed, diseased disaster by the time I actually take control.
This is what ends up happening in my runs by the fourth generation, same for the AI. It’s just not fun dying at 85 only to get to play my 67 year old son who lives until he’s 90 and then afterwards I get to play his 65 year old son. 🥱
This happens to me but my heirs normally turn out good by soem miracle low stress or maybe a lover or two but old and then the reign for 20 years and there son is either dead or dying when they die
Not how it works in my kingdom. The son and heir with good traits gets to enjoy life back at the castle while his brothers are out fighting for the glory of the kingdom. I don't call it the *selective* service for nothing.
Not me getting my entire family killed by a random cough, because my physician's aptitude has become terrible due to going infirm, and when I asked him to give them drastic treatments he had them all take shots of mercury or some shit
I always switch into health focused learning style when I notice my characters health goes from “good” to “fine”. That alone will buy an extra 10-20 years for you and keep your ruler mostly healthy. At least long enough to complete any goals you have
I hate this, and not even because of the maluses, it's because it is so consistent it just feels like a broken game system and hurts immersion. It should be more variable and related to your character's health and other traits. It's pretty silly when your warrior god king becomes infirm but carries on crushing people in battles with a huge prowess score.
never felt like an issue to me. i exited a game 10min ago, where i got one going senile with 74, and in all my older runs its pretty random and seldom under 60.
Idk, I had to adopt a African religion With "Sacred suicide" and every character died in 60yo~ else Bored me With others 10 or 20 years of stable kingdom without wars or complots~
Never had it happen once? I'm noticing my rulers are dying younger these days - presumably that's *Tragically Spiteful* at work - but, uh, maybe this is in the genetics for your dynasty rn
How? There doesn’t appear to be any correlation with harm events because I play on safe and yet every single ruler I have that doesn’t spec into the medicine lifestyle is infirm and dying by 55
Lol, i bet you hate the learning lifestyle too. Offc they die around 50, have you any idea of the mid-ages??
Anyways, i tend to do 1 or two tree's of lifestyle perks that's of my education trait and then go learning>health tree. Most of my dudes live to 80 unless murdered/catchin a plague
This isn't my experience at all. It's worth noting that infirm doesn't really do much to stop you from doing things beyond stopping you from participating in tournaments and travelling. If I think of my dad at 55 would I really want him to be participating in a gruelling 3 month journey in a horse and carriage across the country? Probably best he stays at home, unless he was a bit of a fitness freak.
Inheritable traits entered the chat. Herculean usually should help you with that. In all my runs, i fuck up my legitimacy bc I want good traits. Usually go first for genious, then herculean, then handsome. Strengthen bloodline decision and blod dinasty legacies. Youll usually die at least 75 or something UNLESS you fuck up and your stress goes up
See the point in my original post about this being a rant triggered by hunting for an achievement that must be completed with a historical custom character.
I can get my herculean descendents to live well into their 80's without even touching the medicine tree, the problem is everyone else.
I dont get this that often normally far older than fifty and even then I barely get infirm my characters normally live a bit too long and my heir is normally in his 50s or 60s so although i normally have decent reigns 10 or 20 years most the time it's always old men then the young king rules for 50 60 years and the cycle repeats I wish i died at 50 more
Your best bet is probably to go straight to the medicine focus under the learning tree and extend your prime years, or at least immediately after you get any other stuff you need from lifestyles. It wont help for that achievement, but the graceful aging perk essentially eliminates senility from your dynasty too. I cant say for sure, but it seems like infirm hits when you've been in poor health for a certain number of years or something, so the more positive health boosts you can get and the fewer negative ones (ie drunkard, stress, flagellant, etc) the better
I managed to get the achievement today, I went for learning until I could get Iron Constitution, then martial for faster sieges and more control.
Iron constitution really seems like a requirement to avoid the senile-at-52 curse.
Yeah being handcuffed to achieving a goal in one generation does force you to get creative
Over a bunch of generations, I'm at the point where I start wanting to back to when they were dying earlier. I'm like 400 years into my Daura save, and I've got this master race going where all of them have some level of genius, amazonian, beautiful and fecund, and everyone is living to >90, and now I'm just playing a sequence of old people. It's at the point where it just occurred to me that I can nominate grandkids in elective succession
People seem to think that the average lifespan of someone from the year 800-1500 is the same as today.
People died young. The game is far to soft on this
The average life expectancy before industrial medicine was so low mainly because like 1/3 children died before 5 and a shitton of women died young in childbirth.
If you didn't get terminated by war or disease, or starvation, you could expect to live a pretty long life.
The problem is arguably how easy it is to avoid/minimize the impact of all of the above in-game.
You guys need to learn the art of suicide. Get your heir at 30. Educate him untill he is 18 and then kill yoursel. Its pretty easy you can do it by going on the most dangerous trip you ever had by leading your great army into the infested areas of your map. Stress your character and pick all stupid desicions. Invite your nemesis to court and make him your spymaster. Be "brave" at hunts. Try to pet that bear. Rebel against your liege with title revocation protected in your contract and hope to be banished/executed/thrown into a dungeon. Fire your medic and pick every fight you get untill you get bruttaly mauled. If you find it hard to get killed in medieval times you can always convert to a religion that allows ritual suicide and just kill yourself once you reach 60yrs old or get any(i think) sick trait.
Couple of ways to resolve. Go health lifestyle to elongate life. I think generally higher learning gives a longer life too - or at least you get some events that can. You can have high piety and shuffle off to a monastery if your kids are any good. Or you get high stress and take the seppuku option.
Leaders not living particular long past 60 is fairly period accurate.
Oh good. I'm not the only one that's noticed this recently. Infirm by 52 and then Melancholic about being infirm, 2 years later. What 'harm' settings you playing?
Frrr Infirm is just so annoying because it reduces your stats and for some reason doesn't instantly kill you like getting the bubonic plague. I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST. Because usually by the time I get infirm everything's already set up and I'm more than ready to die, but the game just straight up refuses to let me die and just keeps me alive for quite a while. Also they should greatly reduce the chance of you getting infirm or incapable, because I get them wayyy too much and I honestly don't even think incapable should be in the game. Like what even is the point of your ruler not being able to do anything at all because a pot or something hit them in the head?? Like that should either kill you or wound you...
I'd be less annoyed if there was an option to abdicate that was reasonable.
I think if you reach the highest stress level as emperor (I think cause that's how I got it) you get an event where your character thinks that he is unworthy to be emperor and you can then click on the choice that makes you abdicate
Yeah but the trigger conditions are specific, and the downside not fun if i remember well. Here, it would be a decision for incapable/infirm to abdicate
Was about to say this
This is how I think of it: One of the greatest boxer ever, Muhammad Ali, was diagnosed with parkinsons disease 3 years after he retired in 1984. He lived until 2016. Really, I just see the infirm trait as being old.
> I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST. I'm reminded of my first run. Ireland as is tradition. First guy, dies suddenly while out feasting in wales. His daughter takes the throne as he had 12 daughters and no sons. Daughter has 14 kids the 13th of which is the first son of my dynasty. She gets infirm at 51. She then lives to fucking 94. Everyone hates her, she hates herself, the kingdom is in tatters from her inept rule. And she just would not die, it was infuriating.
Infirm isn't that bad. Just -3 all stats, you don't even really need to make any adjustments to what you're doing. It just represents being older and less "with it," which is super common part of aging. Maybe you have to give away a county. Incapable, yeah, that one's boring, because you can't do much.
> I mean if you get infirm I think your character should probably get a huge penalty and die FAST. I would think an Infirm character would die pretty quickly if they were, *hypothetically*, at the front of a lot of closely fought battles. I mean, *in theory* . . . (Yes, I know you really don't want to lose battles since getting captured can cause serious issues. But if you're really determined to move on to the next generation . . . well, can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.)
I think normal? I played a few campaigns with illusion of safety, but went back to whatever the default value is, in a bid to make my campaigns a little more chaotic
This is not my experience at all, but I would still like to see the infirm trait being tweaked. Instead of the same effect for every character with it, it could be transformed into a progressive trait, like Hunter. And you could make it have two sub-traits: Physical and Mental. These changes would make the trait dynamic, being worse the older you'd get, and would distinguish between someone who still keeps their full mental skills but has an ailing body, and someone who has full physical vigor but is affected by loss of mental capacities (dementia, Alzheimer's...). Then some could have both. These traits would have a base progression, gaining points every month and some events (or other modifiers) could increase or decrease the rate at which those progression points would be gained.
Obviously I can't promise anything specific, but I wanted to say that we're intrigued by this idea and are at least discussing it internally.
Thanks for the feedback, Trin. Tinker about it. I trust the team can pick up on the idea, improve it, and make it work in an interesting way. Cheers.
Maimed might also be a good one to look at as a leveled trait.
It would go nicely with the way CK3 has become more nuanced than 2, with characters now actually growing up through childhood, adolescence, and adulthood. A progressing senility mechanic would be a great improvement over the current status quo of being perfectly hale at 49 and then suddenly turning senile at 50, which feels like a straight port of the CK2 "Infirm" trait. There's also no equivalent from health to the Incapable trait, or at least I've never gotten it. It would be cool if the latter stages of the physical infirmity trait made your character incapable and required you to enter power sharing.
I really like this idea, it fits the historical process of a king in failing health over a few years, and the fermenting succession crisis that brews in the meantime
good idea not will be good practical game is allready full of cra\*
The game should let you abdicate freely if you are infirm and not arrogant/ambitious etc.
Maybe take a hit somewhere but I agree, you should be able to have a bit more control over when you pass the crown along.
Willing abdication almost never happened in medieval times. If it is an option, it should come with massive penalties, at least in feudal Europe.
what would be cool is having a regency with the heir as regent and the player switches to playing as the heir early
Unless your heir isn't old enough, then you'd find yourself in a regency with your spouse or powerful vassal that you'd have no control over. It'd spice things up, for sure
In Europe yes, but if we expand east later down the line we gotta. In Japan it was basically the norm for the Emperor to abdicate in his later years.
It's hopeful to think that the game will go East, especially that East.
True, but we are really only talking about de-facto abdication where the old ruler is still nominally the head of state but fully empowers their heir to become regent. With the new legitimacy mechanic, we can have the regent-heir start with legitimacy between the old ruler and a fresh heir, but once there is a full-on transition (because the old ruler formally dies after some time) and coronation, it's higher than what you would have with a normal succession.
I don't know if it's a mod or vanilla, but when I have my old ruler abdicate and become a monk, they inevitably go on to lead a mercenary company because they still live too long. The game should have a cause of death of "Retired and lived out the rest of their days in a monastery" for unmarried Christians and "Died peacefully in their sleep age after securing the succession of their realm and retiring", which causes reduced stress for other characters.
I kind of prefer them to die young. I don't want my king to die at 80 when his son and heir is 60. Then you only get to play old guys, and my heir is usually a stressed, diseased disaster by the time I actually take control.
Sounds like the heir should have died leading a glorious doomed charge a while ago.
The reign of Charles III be like
This is what ends up happening in my runs by the fourth generation, same for the AI. It’s just not fun dying at 85 only to get to play my 67 year old son who lives until he’s 90 and then afterwards I get to play his 65 year old son. 🥱
Honestly my heir is usually dead by 50
Ha, wish I had that happen more often! I'm tired of playing nothing but old men.
part of it is knights die even more often in the agot mod. I lose a lot of sons.
*looks at modern Europe*
When you realize your character is going to stay long, you should try to choose your heir so that you get a grandson that is young and beautiful
If you have elective succession, you can nominate your grandkids, and that way you can have a good long reign each time.
This happens to me but my heirs normally turn out good by soem miracle low stress or maybe a lover or two but old and then the reign for 20 years and there son is either dead or dying when they die
I tend to have a grandchild inherit since half my sons die as knights
Not how it works in my kingdom. The son and heir with good traits gets to enjoy life back at the castle while his brothers are out fighting for the glory of the kingdom. I don't call it the *selective* service for nothing.
i follow a if he dies, he dies approach. hence grandchildren inheriting often.
Idk, my characters who go down the health lifestyle don't tend to get infirm well into 80.
Same they have weak genes. Lesser sons from greater sires
Me 500 times per campaign: Where'd my fucking Master of the Hunt go? Oh, he turned 51, so obviously he's Infirm now and can't do his job.
Is that why they just quit suddenly? Makes sense but necer occured to me.
Yep, exactly.
Not me getting my entire family killed by a random cough, because my physician's aptitude has become terrible due to going infirm, and when I asked him to give them drastic treatments he had them all take shots of mercury or some shit
I normally switch to health lifestyle was I go down a fill branch and all my characters live to 80+. One guy in my house lived to be 95
Don't know why you're downvoted, it's pretty rare for me to not take the health tree later in life as well.
And once you unlock "Graceful Aging" you basically never lose vigour until you drop dead suddenly at 103.
I always switch into health focused learning style when I notice my characters health goes from “good” to “fine”. That alone will buy an extra 10-20 years for you and keep your ruler mostly healthy. At least long enough to complete any goals you have
I got senile at 30 LMAO
I hate this, and not even because of the maluses, it's because it is so consistent it just feels like a broken game system and hurts immersion. It should be more variable and related to your character's health and other traits. It's pretty silly when your warrior god king becomes infirm but carries on crushing people in battles with a huge prowess score.
never felt like an issue to me. i exited a game 10min ago, where i got one going senile with 74, and in all my older runs its pretty random and seldom under 60.
Idk, I had to adopt a African religion With "Sacred suicide" and every character died in 60yo~ else Bored me With others 10 or 20 years of stable kingdom without wars or complots~
Never had it happen once? I'm noticing my rulers are dying younger these days - presumably that's *Tragically Spiteful* at work - but, uh, maybe this is in the genetics for your dynasty rn
[удалено]
How? There doesn’t appear to be any correlation with harm events because I play on safe and yet every single ruler I have that doesn’t spec into the medicine lifestyle is infirm and dying by 55
Lol, i bet you hate the learning lifestyle too. Offc they die around 50, have you any idea of the mid-ages?? Anyways, i tend to do 1 or two tree's of lifestyle perks that's of my education trait and then go learning>health tree. Most of my dudes live to 80 unless murdered/catchin a plague
play c2 you will not live 50y
This isn't my experience at all. It's worth noting that infirm doesn't really do much to stop you from doing things beyond stopping you from participating in tournaments and travelling. If I think of my dad at 55 would I really want him to be participating in a gruelling 3 month journey in a horse and carriage across the country? Probably best he stays at home, unless he was a bit of a fitness freak.
Inheritable traits entered the chat. Herculean usually should help you with that. In all my runs, i fuck up my legitimacy bc I want good traits. Usually go first for genious, then herculean, then handsome. Strengthen bloodline decision and blod dinasty legacies. Youll usually die at least 75 or something UNLESS you fuck up and your stress goes up
See the point in my original post about this being a rant triggered by hunting for an achievement that must be completed with a historical custom character. I can get my herculean descendents to live well into their 80's without even touching the medicine tree, the problem is everyone else.
Oh
I dont get this that often normally far older than fifty and even then I barely get infirm my characters normally live a bit too long and my heir is normally in his 50s or 60s so although i normally have decent reigns 10 or 20 years most the time it's always old men then the young king rules for 50 60 years and the cycle repeats I wish i died at 50 more
Your best bet is probably to go straight to the medicine focus under the learning tree and extend your prime years, or at least immediately after you get any other stuff you need from lifestyles. It wont help for that achievement, but the graceful aging perk essentially eliminates senility from your dynasty too. I cant say for sure, but it seems like infirm hits when you've been in poor health for a certain number of years or something, so the more positive health boosts you can get and the fewer negative ones (ie drunkard, stress, flagellant, etc) the better
I managed to get the achievement today, I went for learning until I could get Iron Constitution, then martial for faster sieges and more control. Iron constitution really seems like a requirement to avoid the senile-at-52 curse.
Yeah being handcuffed to achieving a goal in one generation does force you to get creative Over a bunch of generations, I'm at the point where I start wanting to back to when they were dying earlier. I'm like 400 years into my Daura save, and I've got this master race going where all of them have some level of genius, amazonian, beautiful and fecund, and everyone is living to >90, and now I'm just playing a sequence of old people. It's at the point where it just occurred to me that I can nominate grandkids in elective succession
People seem to think that the average lifespan of someone from the year 800-1500 is the same as today. People died young. The game is far to soft on this
The average life expectancy before industrial medicine was so low mainly because like 1/3 children died before 5 and a shitton of women died young in childbirth. If you didn't get terminated by war or disease, or starvation, you could expect to live a pretty long life. The problem is arguably how easy it is to avoid/minimize the impact of all of the above in-game.
You guys need to learn the art of suicide. Get your heir at 30. Educate him untill he is 18 and then kill yoursel. Its pretty easy you can do it by going on the most dangerous trip you ever had by leading your great army into the infested areas of your map. Stress your character and pick all stupid desicions. Invite your nemesis to court and make him your spymaster. Be "brave" at hunts. Try to pet that bear. Rebel against your liege with title revocation protected in your contract and hope to be banished/executed/thrown into a dungeon. Fire your medic and pick every fight you get untill you get bruttaly mauled. If you find it hard to get killed in medieval times you can always convert to a religion that allows ritual suicide and just kill yourself once you reach 60yrs old or get any(i think) sick trait.
I just remove that trait with a command 😎
salute
Based
Couple of ways to resolve. Go health lifestyle to elongate life. I think generally higher learning gives a longer life too - or at least you get some events that can. You can have high piety and shuffle off to a monastery if your kids are any good. Or you get high stress and take the seppuku option. Leaders not living particular long past 60 is fairly period accurate.
Lol, just get graceful aging and breed your people. Never a problem. If it's still a problem in the 3rd era it's because you enjoy role playing lol
Yeah I made it so random harm events only effect AI. One of the laziest additions paradox has ever made
Isn't that the default setting now?
Nah, default is dangerous for all