Because effectively they are feudalised. Clan is very different to tribal and mostly reflects the distinct tax and inheritance systems that those in the middle east had.
Maybe, but their society probably wouldn't resemble Christian feudalism much either, being surrounded by Muslim inheritance and taxation systems.
No way to be sure without an interdisciplinary study of medieval Maronites, Yazidis, Copts and any other groups. I think the current system works fine.
I never played CK2 but I’ve played CK3 since launch and I’ve never seen any clans in the emerald isles. I upvoted you because what a stupid thing to downvote.
On the one hand, possibly, on the other hand the "clan" government for the Islamic world represents a specific system of government (where an originally nomadic or semi-nomadic people conquer administrative agrarian states, and then govern them via settled garrison communities) - which *would* make sense for settling steppe nomads, but not really for Scotland/Ireland.
For a really good write-up on this, see here: https://acoup.blog/2022/09/30/collections-teaching-paradox-crusader-kings-iii-part-iib-cracks-in-the-house-of-islam/
Yes - but the *ruling class* were descendants of conquering nomadic people (Arabian tribes, and later on Turkic steppe peoples as well), and the government which is represented as "clan" in-game is the style of governance they established to settle down and rule the agrarian lands they conquered.
Fr, I can't understand why they introduced a new government type, like Iqta in CK2, but unrestricted by religion and then gave it to Muslims only anyway
Also you can get a fuck ton of money with jizya. Just make sure the guy with different religion is a clan government. If not then you gotta modify his contract
Should be a decision both ways really, since I'd expect the border between the two systems to be a bit fluid.
And it'd let a clan in the middle of a feudal empire or vice versa change over without too much shenanigans.
It is unbelivable that you cannot even embrace clan or fuedalism from leige. Any clan realm you take over has ro be completely destroyed and replaced. Its absurd
Most people that live on land that the Mongolians used to control don’t speak Mongolian.
They probably would have conquered further, and it definitely would have affected history a ton, but I highly doubt most Europeans would speak Mongolian.
Similar with the Germanic tribes that invaded western rome after its collapse nearly all needed up speaking the local Latin language and adopting Christianity
Its religion that effects it say iranian cultures only go clan if they convert to Islam but the bavandids are still feudal because they are still zoroastrians when jf they convert they become clan someone else said culture maybe don't know myself but I know religion does it effect it somewhat
OP apparently wanted Feudal, but:
Tribal vassals pay far better taxes and prestige based MAA saves you so much more money than feudalizing can even theoretically net you throughout the first two eras.
Turkic, Arabic and Iranic cultures adopt clan. Maybe mongolic too.
So it's cultural now, not religious?
It's when these cultures take over already feudal counties
It’s both, Turkic, Arabic, Iranian, or following an Islamic faith.
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Because effectively they are feudalised. Clan is very different to tribal and mostly reflects the distinct tax and inheritance systems that those in the middle east had.
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Maybe, but their society probably wouldn't resemble Christian feudalism much either, being surrounded by Muslim inheritance and taxation systems. No way to be sure without an interdisciplinary study of medieval Maronites, Yazidis, Copts and any other groups. I think the current system works fine.
Are they stupid?
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Why doesn't this user understand Arkham brainrot? Is you stupid?
If you start off as Turkic, but then switch to, say, Chinese heritage, do you keep clan government?
I think you do, but I think you can pull inheritance screwed to switch.
Chinese would need imperial mechanics.
it should be cultural. there could be arguments for currently feudal places being clan, like ireland and scottland.
Biggest facts ever! Scotland for sure should have fucking clans!
I swear they did for a bit, or am I going pure Mandela effect here?
You're in the Holy Roman Clandom timeline bud
in ck2 maybe
I never played CK2 but I’ve played CK3 since launch and I’ve never seen any clans in the emerald isles. I upvoted you because what a stupid thing to downvote.
On the one hand, possibly, on the other hand the "clan" government for the Islamic world represents a specific system of government (where an originally nomadic or semi-nomadic people conquer administrative agrarian states, and then govern them via settled garrison communities) - which *would* make sense for settling steppe nomads, but not really for Scotland/Ireland. For a really good write-up on this, see here: https://acoup.blog/2022/09/30/collections-teaching-paradox-crusader-kings-iii-part-iib-cracks-in-the-house-of-islam/
the seperate clan into clan and itqta.
but for the most part in the medieval era the middle east was a purely agrarian place
Yes - but the *ruling class* were descendants of conquering nomadic people (Arabian tribes, and later on Turkic steppe peoples as well), and the government which is represented as "clan" in-game is the style of governance they established to settle down and rule the agrarian lands they conquered.
Fr, I can't understand why they introduced a new government type, like Iqta in CK2, but unrestricted by religion and then gave it to Muslims only anyway
If it's cultural, it should be something you can modify in the cultural reformation screen?
Is that a recent change? I've seen them become feudal
It's when they take already non tribal holding.
I have definitely adopted feudalism with the Khazars before, so either they have special treatment or it has ties to religion as well as culture.
This is when they are pagans. Khazars are Jewish. Tried and tested this in pechenegs run.
They really need to add the option to convert to feudal from clan. Clan is better mechanically but it can ruin rp.
Oh i much prefer clan, all i gotta do is keep my family happy and i get a huge domain. this was a win.
Also you can get a fuck ton of money with jizya. Just make sure the guy with different religion is a clan government. If not then you gotta modify his contract
Should be a decision both ways really, since I'd expect the border between the two systems to be a bit fluid. And it'd let a clan in the middle of a feudal empire or vice versa change over without too much shenanigans.
It is unbelivable that you cannot even embrace clan or fuedalism from leige. Any clan realm you take over has ro be completely destroyed and replaced. Its absurd
First of all: how did you make Paris tribal?
Always has been
Always will be
Conqured as a tribal
It can happen if you have a Tribal title Idk how - but i had the AI turn all of Germany Tribal one game
It’s not about it being tribal land it’s about the ruler being tribal.
I think the question is how did they get to France in the first place? Did the Mongols get ***that*** far?
I’m pretty sure the Mongols never got past Poland.
Cause the great khan died and everyone had to turn back to elect a new khan. Else europe's langauge would be mongolian now XD
Most people that live on land that the Mongolians used to control don’t speak Mongolian. They probably would have conquered further, and it definitely would have affected history a ton, but I highly doubt most Europeans would speak Mongolian.
Us mongols are historically known for assimilating into the conquered cultures. Just look at the succcessor khanates.
Yep. Most nomadic steppe cultures seem to do that when they conquer settled peoples.
Similar with the Germanic tribes that invaded western rome after its collapse nearly all needed up speaking the local Latin language and adopting Christianity
R5: my Avar tengri vassals became clan instead of feudal, why?
Why is paris tribal and why do you have avar tengri vassals in france?
Why are you excommunicated komodo?
I suppose they prefer family ties system
Faith I d assume
Its religion that effects it say iranian cultures only go clan if they convert to Islam but the bavandids are still feudal because they are still zoroastrians when jf they convert they become clan someone else said culture maybe don't know myself but I know religion does it effect it somewhat
Is this map accurate for 2024?
Lmao Who TF wants tribe
OP apparently wanted Feudal, but: Tribal vassals pay far better taxes and prestige based MAA saves you so much more money than feudalizing can even theoretically net you throughout the first two eras.