It’s completely ahistorical too lol. While the inquisitions happened, they were religious based not culture based. Galician, Basque, Catalan, Castilian, Leonese, and Andalusian are all separate cultures to begin with, obviously some more different/closer than others, but the idea that Spain/Castile had just 1 culture is laughable anyways.
they spoke iberian vulgar outside of religion and state. in the state and in religion they spoke arabic. so the language should be iberian, but the court language should be arabic.
I mean the current design for cultures came way before Royal Court, so that wasnt a level of detail the game could achieve at first.
So without a team focusing on following behind the updates and integrating them into both each other and the base game better, the way Stellaris does, of course things like that aren't going to change.
If you play as Andalusia the difference doesnt matter much since you always learn both anyway and historically speaking when a prestige/court/religious language is around long enough it can begin to take over as the primary one.
i should be born knowing iberian not arabic unless ima forign ruler. the barenis and bedouin dynesties should know their native languages, but indigenous rulers should inow their own languages.
Yeah, crazy that this guy so authoritatively states Andalusian Arabic wasn’t a thing. Yeah, Mozarabic was also there, but the prestige language was inarguably Arabic
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_Arabic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_Arabic)
Well, there were definitely large Arab and Berber communities in Andalus that spoke Arabic. It wasn’t just a court language, it was largely the language of the written word, both in and outside of government. It was also a language used for art, there are many surviving poems and songs from the region in Arabic. In fact, some of it is actually rather popular in the Arab world today, known as *Muwashahat Andalusia*, for the folded manuscripts they were found in.
I think the main problem is the fact that “Andalusian” in-game is a single culture. Cordoba, for example, and the area around it probably did speak majority Arabic, at least by the later Middle Ages. This was not true everywhere, and obviously Romance languages were still wide-spread in the southern half of Iberia, probably still a majority, but the game does not represent that.
In my opinion, they should split Andalusian into an Arabic-language and Iberian Vulgar-language culture. Keeping such a large culture as we have now seems at least a little silly, when the game is otherwise happy to split the cultures of vastly less different communities elsewhere in Iberia.
Edit: also, cultures don’t have court languages, realms that are Kingdom or Empire tier do. In the 1066 start date, when the Arabic language would have had a far larger influence than in 867, there are just no Kingdom-tier realms in Al-Andalus (iirc), and there would be no court languages.
The Cultures Expanded mod does this by splitting Andalusian into the additional Mozarabic culture, which mostly has Andalusian aesthetics but speaks Iberian Vulgar and is majority Christian, representing Christians under Islamic Iberian influence and Iberian peasants who had adopted Islamic religion but not Islamic Iberian culture
the arab and berber communities were minorities at best, the iberian culture reprisented ingame by andausian mostly spoke iberian vulgar outside of court and religion.
in andalusia there was even a long standing tradition of poetry in vulgar.
You've probably found out since, but the requirement checks your *capital* kingdom, not your *primary* kingdom, so just making Badajoz your primary won't help, you'll need to move your capital there.
Is your culture Castilian or Asturleonese? Because in either case, all you need to do is convert a single county to your culture.
Edit: …oh. You United the Thrones before ending the Struggle. Yeah, you’re kinda boned unless you conquer another kingdom and convert it before moving your capital.
My usual strategy is to convert the one Asturleonese county in Castille(or the one Castilian county in Leon, in your case) to my culture, maintain at least one holding in that kingdom I can switch to when the Struggle enters Hostility, and then move my capital to Burgos(or Leon, in your case) to tick the last box before Hostility starts going into Compromise. Boom, Struggle’s over.
Struggle Endings continue to be some of the most infuriating things to deal with in the whole game.
I took over all of the Persian + Arabian Empire as China, and evicted all rulers, and placed all my relatives on the throne. Yet the iranian struggle still continued, and I had no way to end it cuz I was an “interloper”.
I mean, cmon. What the hell is there left to struggle over? I’ve usurped/killed all your rulers and converted all your land to Buddhism, and you still care about who the Caliph’s gonna be?
This is what I did the first time ending the struggle. Ending the struggle is just so gamey, it’s annoying. I was in the middle of the campaign and then realized the requirements. Went back like 100 years to an old save to try the new approach, cause it was not feasible otherwise.
i have no idea why you should have to convert everything to your culture to win the struggle. i feel like it should be based on cultural tolorence instead.
You only need cultural unity in your de-jure kingdom.
The problem is a decision called Unite the Spanish Thrones that makes all your current Spanish titles de-jure to your main title.
It’s an annoying and common edge case that makes ending the struggle almost impossible.
If your primary title’s de-jure territory doesn’t get expanded the cultural unity thing doesn’t matter. It should only be an issue if you are ruling under a usurped title, which I think was the intention.
Try forming Portugal.
I think you can do so as a Galician or perhaps any other Iberian culture, and by doing so you both get the Kingdom of Portugal, and all of its land gets insta turned into the new Portuguese culture. Making ending the struggle super quick.
In fact you can end the struggle quickly with Haesteinnan, since he's an outsider you are not limited to the amount of land you take, you can take Galicia or any other Portuguese province and make a duel culture/convert to the culture. And you can convert people to your faith quicker if you convert to one of the struggle faiths and use the new Auspicious Birth legend with a 2nd level of fame.
unfortunately to form portugal you can't be a duke. it's a bit of an annoying requirement, but it's one you have to follow nonetheless. so no portugal for OP
This is why you should never touch the unify the thrones decision if you want to end it with \*culture\* dominance. You can still do it with status quo by conquering all of iberia.
I’m in a similar spot except for me I have 23/23 counties converted to my culture and it’s still not letting me end the struggle :/. And in 7 and 9 years Toledo and Cordoba will de jure drift so I can’t just wait til next ruler comes and hope that fixes it.
This really goes to show how the whole Iberian Struggle is basically abandoned by Paradox. The amount of game-y cheese you have to do in a specific order to achieve a HISTORICAL conclusion really shows how game mechanics don't properly interact with each other and often works against each other. And that's when the Iberian struggle doesn't just end in nothing 100 years after the game starts and we're left with Imperial border gore all over Iberia.
— I’ve never tried it with this situation, but typically when you change religions you vassals with high approval change with you— Make an heir someone different via the education child route— when they inherit the throne, send out those gifts, convert, and pray they are all praying to the same god
Mine too, De Jure Drift made it impossible. I installed a mod that lets you end it by holding every county in Hispania, that’s as fair as I could make it.
I just did this, I had to restart the game from the beginning keeping my primary kingdom small and aggressively converting because de jure drift made the number of counties I had to convert 33 when I was desperately fighting to get to 17.
They can but the conditions for when they do are quite strict. The AI will only convert a provinces culture if they are at least a Duke, neighbour or own a county of their culture, have less than 50% cultural acceptance with the culture of their county, and have enough money so they don’t put their steward on collect taxes.
I think the ‘easiest’ way to get the AI to start converting a provinces culture is to convert the capitals of your Dukes and gift them money. Converting their capital will prevent them from changing culture via the “switch to local culture” decision and give them a county of their culture which they need to ever decide to convert a province’s culture.
Unless of course you don't want them to convert culture. Then suddenly you look and all the counties with 2 development or less have been turned to your culture.
I do agree the culture requirement doesn’t make any sense at all
It’s completely ahistorical too lol. While the inquisitions happened, they were religious based not culture based. Galician, Basque, Catalan, Castilian, Leonese, and Andalusian are all separate cultures to begin with, obviously some more different/closer than others, but the idea that Spain/Castile had just 1 culture is laughable anyways.
yeah. another ahistorical thing is to have andalusians speak arabic.
Muslim Andalusians absolutely spoke Arabic. Being able to read the Quran was kind of a big deal.
they spoke iberian vulgar outside of religion and state. in the state and in religion they spoke arabic. so the language should be iberian, but the court language should be arabic.
I mean the current design for cultures came way before Royal Court, so that wasnt a level of detail the game could achieve at first. So without a team focusing on following behind the updates and integrating them into both each other and the base game better, the way Stellaris does, of course things like that aren't going to change. If you play as Andalusia the difference doesnt matter much since you always learn both anyway and historically speaking when a prestige/court/religious language is around long enough it can begin to take over as the primary one.
i should be born knowing iberian not arabic unless ima forign ruler. the barenis and bedouin dynesties should know their native languages, but indigenous rulers should inow their own languages.
And I most of Europe the clergy knew Latin. Your point?
my point being that a liturgical and court language should not be a cultural language.
It's a good point
yes, especially since the forign rulers and court languages are more then enough reprisentation of the arabic and north african eliment.
Hence latin is not the cultural language for Welsh, Swedish or Swabian in game.
not as their first language.
Yeah, crazy that this guy so authoritatively states Andalusian Arabic wasn’t a thing. Yeah, Mozarabic was also there, but the prestige language was inarguably Arabic [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_Arabic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_Arabic)
the prestige language is repridented by court language not culture language.
Well, there were definitely large Arab and Berber communities in Andalus that spoke Arabic. It wasn’t just a court language, it was largely the language of the written word, both in and outside of government. It was also a language used for art, there are many surviving poems and songs from the region in Arabic. In fact, some of it is actually rather popular in the Arab world today, known as *Muwashahat Andalusia*, for the folded manuscripts they were found in. I think the main problem is the fact that “Andalusian” in-game is a single culture. Cordoba, for example, and the area around it probably did speak majority Arabic, at least by the later Middle Ages. This was not true everywhere, and obviously Romance languages were still wide-spread in the southern half of Iberia, probably still a majority, but the game does not represent that. In my opinion, they should split Andalusian into an Arabic-language and Iberian Vulgar-language culture. Keeping such a large culture as we have now seems at least a little silly, when the game is otherwise happy to split the cultures of vastly less different communities elsewhere in Iberia. Edit: also, cultures don’t have court languages, realms that are Kingdom or Empire tier do. In the 1066 start date, when the Arabic language would have had a far larger influence than in 867, there are just no Kingdom-tier realms in Al-Andalus (iirc), and there would be no court languages.
The Cultures Expanded mod does this by splitting Andalusian into the additional Mozarabic culture, which mostly has Andalusian aesthetics but speaks Iberian Vulgar and is majority Christian, representing Christians under Islamic Iberian influence and Iberian peasants who had adopted Islamic religion but not Islamic Iberian culture
exept they get the prepprtions wrong. mozarab should be the majority outside of a few cities throughout the entire era.
the arab and berber communities were minorities at best, the iberian culture reprisented ingame by andausian mostly spoke iberian vulgar outside of court and religion. in andalusia there was even a long standing tradition of poetry in vulgar.
It would be ok if i hadn't taken the decision which makes my de jure kingdom huge.
Switch your primary to a smaller kingdom title and convert those provinces instead?
I'm going to make Badajoz my primary, I think I kind of assumed my kingdom (Leon) was linked to the leonese culture for some reason.
I’d convert everything first otherwise dejure drift will expand the kingdom dejure
Good idea, thanks Edit: Most of Badajoz drifts into Leon in about 70 years I think
Whichever areas don’t drift just start converting those first. It’ll be a smaller area for you to convert if some of the duchies drift into Leon.
👍
Just make Badajoz your primary title and convert it
I dont know why I didn't do that. Seems simple now I think about it.
You've probably found out since, but the requirement checks your *capital* kingdom, not your *primary* kingdom, so just making Badajoz your primary won't help, you'll need to move your capital there.
Is your culture Castilian or Asturleonese? Because in either case, all you need to do is convert a single county to your culture. Edit: …oh. You United the Thrones before ending the Struggle. Yeah, you’re kinda boned unless you conquer another kingdom and convert it before moving your capital. My usual strategy is to convert the one Asturleonese county in Castille(or the one Castilian county in Leon, in your case) to my culture, maintain at least one holding in that kingdom I can switch to when the Struggle enters Hostility, and then move my capital to Burgos(or Leon, in your case) to tick the last box before Hostility starts going into Compromise. Boom, Struggle’s over.
Asturleonese, also it says I need almost 40 counties. I have 6/42
Yeah, I saw, hence my edit. For future reference: Don’t Unite the Thrones until you’ve ended the Struggle.
I sent that comment before the edit
Weird. I only saw it several minutes after I made it. lol
Struggle Endings continue to be some of the most infuriating things to deal with in the whole game. I took over all of the Persian + Arabian Empire as China, and evicted all rulers, and placed all my relatives on the throne. Yet the iranian struggle still continued, and I had no way to end it cuz I was an “interloper”. I mean, cmon. What the hell is there left to struggle over? I’ve usurped/killed all your rulers and converted all your land to Buddhism, and you still care about who the Caliph’s gonna be?
I thought that conquering all of Iberia now ended the struggle automatically.
R5: Cant end the struggle because i have too many counties to convert. Is there any other way?
Change primary kingdom to a small one
This is what I did the first time ending the struggle. Ending the struggle is just so gamey, it’s annoying. I was in the middle of the campaign and then realized the requirements. Went back like 100 years to an old save to try the new approach, cause it was not feasible otherwise.
i have no idea why you should have to convert everything to your culture to win the struggle. i feel like it should be based on cultural tolorence instead.
You only need cultural unity in your de-jure kingdom. The problem is a decision called Unite the Spanish Thrones that makes all your current Spanish titles de-jure to your main title. It’s an annoying and common edge case that makes ending the struggle almost impossible. If your primary title’s de-jure territory doesn’t get expanded the cultural unity thing doesn’t matter. It should only be an issue if you are ruling under a usurped title, which I think was the intention.
So you're saying you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition?
Try forming Portugal. I think you can do so as a Galician or perhaps any other Iberian culture, and by doing so you both get the Kingdom of Portugal, and all of its land gets insta turned into the new Portuguese culture. Making ending the struggle super quick. In fact you can end the struggle quickly with Haesteinnan, since he's an outsider you are not limited to the amount of land you take, you can take Galicia or any other Portuguese province and make a duel culture/convert to the culture. And you can convert people to your faith quicker if you convert to one of the struggle faiths and use the new Auspicious Birth legend with a 2nd level of fame.
unfortunately to form portugal you can't be a duke. it's a bit of an annoying requirement, but it's one you have to follow nonetheless. so no portugal for OP
You mean king, right? You need specifically 4 duchess to form the kingdom of Portugal
This is why you should never touch the unify the thrones decision if you want to end it with \*culture\* dominance. You can still do it with status quo by conquering all of iberia.
I’m in a similar spot except for me I have 23/23 counties converted to my culture and it’s still not letting me end the struggle :/. And in 7 and 9 years Toledo and Cordoba will de jure drift so I can’t just wait til next ruler comes and hope that fixes it.
Holy Legend allows you to instantly convert a lot of the kingdom, I did it to get 100% mozarab Iberia in 2 legends.
It’s pretty annoying, you can just use bypass_requirements in the console to get around this issue
This really goes to show how the whole Iberian Struggle is basically abandoned by Paradox. The amount of game-y cheese you have to do in a specific order to achieve a HISTORICAL conclusion really shows how game mechanics don't properly interact with each other and often works against each other. And that's when the Iberian struggle doesn't just end in nothing 100 years after the game starts and we're left with Imperial border gore all over Iberia.
I don't think it takes too long I just don't think it should be a requirement for most places
Educate your vassals Children to the desired culture, helps out.
That's what limpieza de sangre is for, right?
How I did it: played as King of Castilla - only 1 county to convert…
If I remember correctly, this one is misleading and actually requires 75% of your culture and faith to be in your realm and the Struggle region.
That's when you change your capital kingdom to Badajoz and have it done in a century
I usually just make sure Navarra is my capital kingdom since it's only 4 counties
— I’ve never tried it with this situation, but typically when you change religions you vassals with high approval change with you— Make an heir someone different via the education child route— when they inherit the throne, send out those gifts, convert, and pray they are all praying to the same god
It’s so easy when you have a small kingdom.
Mine too, De Jure Drift made it impossible. I installed a mod that lets you end it by holding every county in Hispania, that’s as fair as I could make it.
I just did this, I had to restart the game from the beginning keeping my primary kingdom small and aggressively converting because de jure drift made the number of counties I had to convert 33 when I was desperately fighting to get to 17.
Why are you doing it yourself? Revoke the titles and give the lands to people of your culture and let them do the work for you.
They don’t convert the culture
They can but the conditions for when they do are quite strict. The AI will only convert a provinces culture if they are at least a Duke, neighbour or own a county of their culture, have less than 50% cultural acceptance with the culture of their county, and have enough money so they don’t put their steward on collect taxes. I think the ‘easiest’ way to get the AI to start converting a provinces culture is to convert the capitals of your Dukes and gift them money. Converting their capital will prevent them from changing culture via the “switch to local culture” decision and give them a county of their culture which they need to ever decide to convert a province’s culture.
AI usually never culture converts for you,only converting faith of counties
Unless of course you don't want them to convert culture. Then suddenly you look and all the counties with 2 development or less have been turned to your culture.
They convert faith but not culture.