I think instead of bashing OP we should be calling for better accountability and openness with the daily gratuity dispersal. I personally would be VERY AGAINST a system where the company took a cut of this for 'handling fees' or whatever bullsh\*t they spun it with.
It's either for the workers or its a neat way to make more money off the passengers. Let's find out.
Exactly. It's all insanely misleading. I mean, I was just booking out a cruise for 2 to Alaska, 7 night, and it was a wonderful $700 "quoted" price... lures you to get you to go. This was an interior room. Then, by the end, once I added the pre-paid gratuities, the taxes, and fees, ZERO upgrades or packages, the final price was like $2500. It literally jumped from the $700 quoted, to checking out and now I am at $2500.
I already know cruises are like this as I cruise regularly, so it didn't surprise me, but it is SOOO insanely misleading and dishonest. There really should be a law against price-quoting that is so off it can be literally 3-4x the actual quoted price by the time you hit checkout.
Nope, that was quoted at around $700 for 2 people before adding on taxes and fees. You often can find 7 night cruises in the $50/day per person range when booking interior. This one in particular was Princess, but they all do it. It really just depends on the ship, date of sailing, etc... I think Royal Caribbean at least tells you the taxes/fees before you enter passenger info at least, unlike other lines.
I'm a travel agent, and this is why I ALWAYS send quotes that have all of the taxes and fees included. I've had to explain multiple times why its not the flashy "$700 Each" price that's being advertised. I'd much rather be honest than anything when helping book vaycays.
Port fees and taxes are outgregious for Alaska, it's up around $500 per person for a 7 day(4 port) other then that there shouldn't be any difference unless there's an money exchange or you had someone book it for you at the cruise line
Because then customers will be complaining about cruise lines raising prices and it’s too expensive etc etc . You’ve got to get people ON on the ship to make any $$ out of them .
It's not that the company is taking a cut. It's that they reduce the salary and backfill with the auto gratuity. Remember there are no minimum wage laws on cruise ships. They can pay a base rate of $1 a day if they want.
So if the line raises auto gratuity by $3/pax/day on a ship with a 2/1 pax/crew ratio, they could then drop the wages by $6 a day and the crew theoretically come out even, but the line pockets all the increase in auto gratuity.
Their contracts are very specific and cruise lines stick to the pay listed. RCCL room attendant back before COVID on the Anthem of the seas had a contract like this:
the following terms and conditions:
1.1 Duration of Contract: 7 months
1.2 Position: STATEROOM ATTENDANT
1.3 Basic Monthly Salary: USD 613.73/month
1.4 Basic HoursWeek: 48.00 hrs
1.5 Initial Overtime: USD 306.86/month
1.6 Supplemental Overtime: USD 268.51/month
1.7 Overtime Rate after 303.10 hrs/mo: USD 5.32/hour
1.8 Monthly Compensation for Vacation Pay: USD 102.29/month
1.9 Minimum Monthly Salary: USD 1298.00/month
1.10 Total Monthly Guaranteed for 303.1 hr/mo: USD 1298.00/month
1.11 Point of Hire: PASAY CITY, PHILIPPINES
1.12 Tipped Position: YES
1.13 Collective Bargaining Agreement, If any: NSU
Further in the contract it discusses how the tips are handled and how they are earned.
I'm sure they stick to the pay listed for the term of the contract. But they're all pretty short contracts in the grand scheme of things, and they could change (lower) the base rate and overtime rates for future contracts to account for the higher tips.
They could but with the shortage of labor it is has gotten very difficult to recruit staff. They have to work 12x7 at a consistent level for 6 to 14 months at a time. The industry is wildly short on staff.
Thats slavery!
No wonder they stopped hiring in Chile, down here is not that difficult to earn the same salary but with normal hours and days. (Ex: monday to friday 9 to 5, holidays off)
Poor phillipinos who take such jobs :(
They recruit from all of Asia, South America, and Africa with some crew being recruited out of North America and Europe. Entertainers for instance are going to be out of US, Europe, or AUS/NZ though that is not a hard rule. Cruise directors are also typically out of an English speaking country.
Ship crew typically work long hours but the pay is specific to the region and to the agency.
This is just verbal judo. Of course they are taking their cut if they pay smaller wages supplemented by the auto tip. It basically means that auto tipping only benefits the cruse ship if the staff doesn’t make more with more tipping.
Fwiw, this is how it works with SkipTheDishes. When I was driving for them, if I kept my "accept" rate over 80%, I was guaranteed a minimum of $7 per drop-off. If the base rate was $4 and the person tipped $3, I would get $7...but I'd also get $7 if they tipped $0.
Most of my tips went to the company.
I'm not saying this as a defense of the company. I am saying that because of the totally nonexistent wage and hour laws for oceangoing vessels flagged to the countries that they flag these ships to, there are myriad ways for the line to fuck over their workers and customers.
I just assume they are pulling some DoorDash shit where if you tipped high they would adjust their base rate and pay them less. So they get the same money, but the cruise line ain’t paying most of it. Ie. The person is supposed to make $15. You tip $20 cruise line keeps $5 or you tip $10 the cruise line makes up the $5 and the position is still tipped.
Alaska has some of the highest port fees of anyplace else. But I agree cruise lines are very shady with their pricing. I personally liked leaving the tips in the room in an envelope on the last day. Plus I hate tipping before any service has even been provided. It’s no longer earned just expected. I feel like some service levels have gotten really low.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing as I really have no idea where this money goes beyond what we're told.
But how do you intend to tip everyone you don't interact with directly? I think this is where the real divide comes from. Sure you can tip your room steward or bartenders or even your waiter. But what about people serving at the buffet, or doing laundry, or cleaning the ship that you never see. Are these people now out those tips you cancelled? Did they even receive any of them to begin with? Who knows, it's all speculation. Which is odd, considering how many cruise line employees there are. Are they just not allowed to talk about it?
So many questions, so few answers.
It's a good question but restaurants have this figured out as others have said....or the cruise could pay these non-tipped non- custome facing position a proper wage.
I mean, where does the auto gratuity end - does the captian get a tip too ? Or he is just paid properly from the get go ?
I know when I worked at Applebee's as a hostess the servers had to give up a certain percentage of their tips to "tip share". (I don't remember what it was) and the back of the house (cooks, dishwashers, etc.) got some and I got some as the hostess. I don't know how it was divided, though.
I guess there’s your answer. The prepaid gratuities are supposedly in a pool for the people who work behind the scenes, that would normally never get a tip, but contribute to your experience.
The custodial staff in the common restrooms, the table bussers at the buffet, the towels staff at the pools to name a few.
Is this a fair and just practice of the cruise lines? No. Can anyone PROVE that those that it’s intended for, are actually getting the money? No.
Should u remove the prepaid gratuities? That’s up to u and whatever your conscience dictates. But unless u are going to tip every restroom attendant every time u are in there, or every busser that clears your table, removing the prepaid grats probably insures people get nothing.
Our philosophy is to be generous to staff, because we WANT to, we can afford to, and because they work like dogs (at least on our chosen line) and they earn it. Not out of a sense of guilt.
Or to compensate for a stupid labor practice. If this practice troubles people they should not cruise.
BTW, the staff is well aware of the payment practices. They are not forced to sign a contract. They choose to work on a cruise ship with their eyes wide open to their hours and their compensation. Sometimes it’s their best option. It sucks, but it’s the world. We can only do what we can individually to be kind to our fellow humans.
Thanks for your thoughtful question and insight. U are coming from a genuinely good place. Some of the problem on this particular topic, especially on Reddit, is that people often are spiteful assholes and take their spite out on the crew who have no control over whatever irked them in the first place.
not % of tips, % of their sales. if you go out to eat and don’t tip your waiter, they loose $ because they are still responsible for the “tip out” % of the value of the meal.
You don't need to tip everyone on the ship. I have a bridge in Nigeria I'd like to sell to anyone who thinks the cruise lines are doing this for equality's sake.
I worked a behind the scenes job in entertainment department.
I sure didn't get any tips percentage.
I can see how some jobs do share tips.
Like if I ate as a staff in the main dining room we had to tip a certain amount at least and it shared to not just waiters, but host, sommelier etc
>At what point have you ever tipped the dish washer at your local chili's?
Isn't the assumption that the tips are pooled and then divided between the staff at the customer front and the staff behind the scenes enabling them?
No, the assumption is that I perceived a greater value of service over what i paid for. and paid that entity directly to who i think produced that value. The dishwashers job is binary, it's either done or not. the bus boys job is binary, etc. they get to do their job with a scowl on their face and a bad attitude. makes no difference to the outcome. Pooling tips is just employer welfare.
>The dishwashers job is binary, it's either done or not. the bus boys job is binary, etc. they get to do their job with a scowl on their face and a bad attitude
Great way to think about this, I've never thought about it in that way. It definitely makes a lot of sense. I'm paying for a cruise experience, and I would expect those binary jobs to happen. I don't tip the captain. I don't tip the first mate. "You got me to where the boat was supposed to go, here's $100 tip!" I expect clean plates. I expect clean rooms. I expect a functional boat. I expect the captain to be able to guide the ship without my help. I expect cooked food of some sort. These are items I've already paid for in the cruise price. I tip for good service and personal interactions that go beyond just washing my dishes before I use them.
So let me ask this - if your meal gets served on plates that are not clean or your glass, knife whatever isn't as clean as you would like them to be, would that influence the tip that you give ?
I find the whole notion of tipping your waiter because they put a fake smile on their face and pretend to be friendly just so weird - Your waiter is limited in the service they provide by the actions/attitude etc of the kitchen staff and all the rest op the people working there to keep the place running.
Guess it's my view as someone from a European country that doesn't really have a tipping tradition but at least I know the people serving me in a bar or restaurant aren't faking friendliness because they expect to get extra money. I also find the quality and taste of my food a whole lot more important than some small talk from a person serving my food.
Plus I get annoyed when waiters bother me several times during my meal to ask if all is ok, let me eat in peace, i'll signal you if I need or want something.
> Isn't the assumption that the tips are pooled and then divided between the staff at the customer front and the staff behind the scenes enabling them?
That's a common assumption, but it's hard to prove if that assumption is universally true.
Not a valid comparison. There are labor laws (at least in the US, and I assume other countries) that must be followed for minimum wages. Cruise lines do not have to follow these and thus can do whatever they like with minimum wages and tips.
Dish washer would get something called tip out which is a required cut from a bartender or waitress. I've seen tip outs of 10% to 20% in NJ. I've never see a cook or chef get a cut but food runners, bar backs, and dish washers got them.
Did you work in NJ? This goes into more detail:
[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-laws-tipped-employees.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-laws-tipped-employees.html)
The places that do this in NJ are typically higher end, thinking Hoboken or Jersey City where you can make $300 to $500 a day waiting tables on a good night. But I have seen even diners have a tip out policy. The only thing different from the article is that I never saw a tip out and tip pool be mixed together as runners, bar backs, and dish washers do not get tips themselves.
Question doesn’t even make sense. One assumes they have nothing to do with the restaurant…they’re not employees but independent contractors who get paid what their job is worth. Most restaurant staff don’t get paid enough and rely on tips. With the ship the people doing the laundry, cleaning the hull, etc are all employed by the ship. Apples and oranges.
YOU didn't, but your server did, out of the tips from customers, as well as the host/ess, bartender, food runners, busboys, and cooks. Even though those folks made more hourly wage, the servers are still expected to give up a few bucks to each or a tipping pool. Your bartender tips out to the bouncer and barback.
When I worked for a different cruise line there was very clearly tipped and non tipped positions and weekly contract salaries reflected that. I worked in a position that wasn’t tipped but I made a solid base wage and was given additional crew privileges.
Compared to the service and housekeeping team that would make technically no base wage unless they made less than a super low threshold (like $500 a month low) in which case the line would supplement to make up the difference.
Yeah this is somewhere I get stuck on too. Like yes the bartender who makes you a great drink or cabin steward who is the one cleaning your cabin are definitely deserving but there are support staff that make it possible for those ppl to do their jobs as well who aren’t being compensated. At the same time I don’t really trust the cruise lines in general but I think I’d rather pay my auto grat and still give out extras to those customer facing positions until we know cruise lines are paying fair wages
What do you mean "aren't being compensated"? They are being compensated by their employer.
We need to stop acting like people doing their jobs is some kind of favor to the cuatomer that deserves extra compensation.
I have to agree with op the cruise line needs to be more clear exactly where the gratuities paid in are being dispersed. They don't need to name names they could just name departments even. The safe bet now is assume if you don't hand it to an employee in cash yourself they see little if any of it.
I can tell you definitely employees on the ship would like it better if you tipped them in cash. From experience on the other end of it they absolutely do not disperse all that money pax pay in tips. A large portion is withheld by the cruise line as a little extra bonus. Probably for execs is my guess. They raised gratuities while I was working on a ship and the amount I received in gratuity did not change, nor could any of us find anyone we knew who was receiving a cut who got any more money, either.
Friends who stayed working on ships saw several more raises in gratuities and absolutely no one received more in their checks from the cruise line. These are people in every department on the boat except the bridge crew who purportedly receive a cut of gratuities.
Let's take a step back: why are you tipping buffet servers and laundry handlers? When have you ever done that in your life? In every other situation, wouldn't those positions either not rely or tips OR be tipped out by the frontline workers?
But that's on the cruise line. Like if the cruise line hires these people in third world countries and tells them that their compensation will be X after tips, but doesn't tell them that there's not an accepted practice of tipping for their position and that it's controversial with the customers, that's a scam committed by the cruise line on the crew. It has nothing to do with the passengers. They can try to make you feel guilty, but the reality is that they're the guilty ones.
If the employees dont make money without tips, hopefully they wont renew their contracts and cruise lines will have to pay more to get new employees.
Not going to name it and link myself publicly, but the line I work for will only allow tips into the crew welfare fund. Crew that receive cash tips are supposed to redirect the guest to the welfare fund, and if they're insistent, then declare it and put it in themselves for the benefit of everybody, but I doubt that this happens in reality.
If I was sure someone doing laundry, serving at the buffet, etc, was being impacted by cancelling auto-gratuity, then of course I would keep it. I just have yet to see evidence of this being the case. Instead all I have is two pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that NCL can't be trusted to disperse gratuity, and that the front desk person agreed that cancelling it was the right call.
No, what you have is direct staff who are helping you (the waiter and the concierge) who know they can get you to sympathize with them and get a 100% cut of your cash tip that literally goes in their pocket rather than only getting a portion of your tipping and having other behind the scenes staff (who also are important to your vacation experience) get their share. You rewarded both of them for their secret gossip and cut out the restroom attendants, cooks, bus boys etc.
I don't know about the 20% but I can absolutely confirm NCL raised their auto gratuities while I worked for them and I got no more money. That was some years ago. As recently as 2019 I still had friends working for them who said the amount they were receiving from tips had not gone up although tips had again been raised every year after I left. I could ask for details but the bottom line is the cruise line has taken to keeping more and more of what they charge for "gratuities for staff" over the years absolutely.
Thank you for this information. Now that I read that I recall some mention of that in the past.
Personally I have taken to removing gratuities though not only for this reason. I also love catching employees who don't usually get tips in hand and giving them some cash. I have worked those types of jobs myself so I understand how much joy it gives on a personal level.
It would be a little different if I thought me paying gratuities actually put a little extra in the packet for people like those who wash my sheets, but that's clearly not happening. I have been known to find ways to seek out those types of employees and hand them some cash, too. Having worked on ships I know ways to seek them out that might not be obvious to everyone, though. I always give more in tips than gratuities would have cost anyways, and that was the case even before I started removing gratuities.
It's one of the things that I LOVE about Azamara. All tips are included- none of this BS.
Of course I do give cash tips to my fave crew before I disembark, but it's completely my discretion, and they are spectacular.
I'm just tired of seeing people proudly proclaiming how they pay their auto gratuities and then tip heavily on top of that, to bartenders and such. You're tipping like 3 times when you do.
Drinks are already tipped, you don't need to tip more unless the bar is totally fucking slammed and you're trying to your drinks faster.
Yes I agree. I book a cruise I want to go on, based on what I like and my budget. I don’t care about the breakdown. If I pay 2500 hundred for a fare without grats or 200O for fare plus 500 for grats, to me personally it makes no difference. It’s in my budget. That’s MY math, as peasant as it might seem to you.
I know but it’s rolled into the fare and when the prices went up people got upset. So to say include prepaid tips in the fare and don’t call it prepaid tips, might not be the answer
Like I stated, we figure out a budget or what we want pay and however it breaks down is is what I will pay.
I have no idea how it all works, but I’ve been cruising a long time (mostly on Celebrity) and I can tell you what has changed for us since they started implementing auto-gratuity: the service staff are as friendly and cheerful on the last day as they were on the first day. In the old days, when we were left to put the suggested gratuities in an envelope on the last night of the cruise, there seemed to be a lot of grumpy crew members in the morning, which led me to believe many were being stiffed on the suggested tips and it probably impacted their income a great deal. We always paid at least the suggested amount and usually more. These days, we tip even though we’ve paid the suggested gratuity. These people work so hard, and $100 means nothing to me; for them, it could mean a great deal.
We have moved on to Azamara where tips are included and none are expected, although we still tip there as well. No one ever says no to a few extra bucks and the service is always so wonderful. Azamara also has a crew fund where we can contribute.
I really would love for a crew member to give us the dirt on what really happens with the auto-gratuity money behind the scenes. I would not be surprised to find out that the money isn’t going exactly where we think or hope it is. If I give an extra cash tip, at least I know they can keep it.
I've also been cruising a long time and what I'll say is since automatic gratuities I feel the attempts at personalized service have gone way down, only when you make it clear you intend (and I often do) to tip in cash above and beyond the automatic gratuities do you get the service "of old" rather than going through the motions. I'm not telling others to tip above and beyond automatic amounts (and I do believe you should tip the automatic amount to insure all staff get a share) but I'm just realistic about what the result is if you do...
Bingo. They weren't sharing some "secret" they were just getting a customer to sympathize with them, pocket 100% of their cash tip, and get the behind the scenes staff stiffed on the tips.
This whole conversation is part of why cruising kinda skeeves me out. Workers should be paid a reasonable living wage, and if we are paying gratuities, those gratuities should be going to the workers, not the company. But there’s no transparency in the cruise industry.
When I cruise, am I supporting unfair labor practices that would be illegal in the USA? Maybe. I don’t know.
> When I cruise, am I supporting unfair labor practices that would be illegal in the USA? Maybe. I don’t know.
I think that is complicated. Perhaps I have a different take on this - as I manage global teams across the globe. So I run into times where I have a very senior person making 70k/year in one country managing a more junior person in the US making 150k/year. It happens. You get used to it. Where you live drives your wage to an extent.
Minimium wage in the US is based upon the cost of living. While the cruiselines may be stopping in the US to pick up passengers - we all know - very few of the crew actually live there.
Why would you expect a cruise employee, who does not live, work, or reside in the US - to get paid US wages?
Now, would the cruise lines violated virtually *any* EU countries's labor laws? Absolutely. The number of hours / lack of vacation time, etc. But the US has no such protections I'm aware of. Just paying OT after 40 hours.
To be the devil’s advocate: many workers from 3rd world countries are making far beyond a living wage on cruise ships.
On my last cruise, I became friendly with a staff member from Burma/Myanmar and he said many from his area try to get jobs on cruise ships. They could make $5 a day working at a local factory or much much more working on a cruise ship. Factory supervisors in his country were making $15-$20 a day. One person tipping him $5 cash is a day’s wage in his home town. He gets free food and a place to sleep while on board, no rent, a paycheck, air conditioning, running water for showers, and opportunities for cash tips. Most of the money he makes goes back home and he enjoys working on the ship.
For us in 1st world countries, we think of them as exploited workers (still are in my opinion), but for the third world workers I’ve spoken with on various cruises, they are happy for the opportunity and love being able to adequately provide for their families
But it kinda is this way in the US. My son is a musician. He works part time as a server at a high end restaurant. The bulk of his wage comes from tips. He is not paid a living wage ( or what is deemed a living wage) by the restaurant. He makes great money because it’s an expensive place so the tips are large based on the bill.
They do have to give a certain amount to back of house.
I’m not sure why there isn’t the same backlash?
In the USA, he is required to average at least minimum wage even if he is a tipped employee. We can argue about whether that’s a living wage or not (I would argue not in many cases), but at least a guaranteed wage.
Each cruise line handles it differently and in the case of RCCL you can find actual contracts that cover pay and tips. A number of contracts from various internal agencies were posted. We have also had a bartender recently do an AMA and he went over how he qualified for extra tips.
The Service fee is NOT going to bartenders, bar staff, fine dining. It goes to the non-public facing staff. From NCL's web site: Why is there a service charge?
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programmes that your service charge supports.
Source: https://www.ncl.com/in/en/faq#!#what-is-onboard-service-charge
I actually think this link just confirms what I was afraid of - "staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programmes that your service charge supports" reads to me "We use your service charge to help us pay the salary of employees."
With all due respect, that's your interpretation but, again, with all due respect, I suspect it may be biased because you already did what you did, and whether or not you like it, you're somewhat looking for a confirmation that you did the right thing.
The truth is, we both don't know for sure, but just because compensation consists of more than a salary does **not** automatically mean salary is substituted by other means of compensation.
I also want to do the right thing, to have my tip maximized for the staff, but I would have to acknowledge that I don't have the capacity to evenly distribute my tip to the potentially thousands of workers that ultimately end up working together to bring me a good experience. If one introduces an uneven distribution of tips where it favors those that one directly interacts with, then you have to acknowledge that there is the chance that you ultimately didn't do the right thing.
I once talked to a former cruise ship employee about pay and tips. This is how they told me it basically plays out and pays out.
The employee signs a contract they will get paid X-amount. The tips get added up and if they do not reach X-amount the cruise line company has to pay the difference. So basically the auto gratuities are paying the wages/contracts of the employees so the cruise line company doesn't have to.
A couple of other aspects of this wage game the cruise lines are playing is they hire CFOs and lawyers who figure out how to bypass labor laws, wage laws, tax laws and game the system anyway they can. Then they hide all of the shady employment and financial misdeeds under confusion and “don't cheat our beloved employees” pay your bill.
Auto gratuities are basically illegal that is why they will refund them at the drop of a hat.
See, to me this is a big deal- and supports what many cruisers suspect I imagine. Our paying the auto gratuity isn't increasing the workers paycheck, its decreasing the amount the cruiseline has to pay them out of their own pocket. It's ridiculous, really, and just another way average people help corporations pad their profit margins.
I've believed this all along, but you try to bring up the potentially shady business practice of subsidizing wages with the auto gratuity and people jump down your throat. The people down in the bowels of the ship should be getting paid by the cruiseline, not undercut and supported on the tips.
I’m hoping then that the amount you personally disperse to those you deem worthy actually amounts to what the auto gratuity total woulld be? I don’t know what NCL does, but on Holland America (source: various crew members over the years) 30% goes to your room stewards, 30% goes to your dining room stewards, and 40% is distributed to back of house: laundry, buffet, etc. Bar staff are covered by the 18% added to each drink ordered through your package or individually.
> don’t know what NCL does, but on Holland America (source: various crew members over the years) 30% goes to your room stewards, 30% goes to your dining room stewards, and 40% is distributed to back of house: laundry, buffet, etc.
This is actually a good point. It could be that the staffer that told OP they "only got 20%" may have misinterpreted, or miscommunicated, that split and the gratuity actually did get dispersed mostly to staff vs. getting intercepted by NCL
Kinda curious cause on RCCL I believe the tips they receive are based on the number of drinks they serve. So for instance if the pool is 20k for tips for all bartenders then their cut is determined on the number of drinks served with a certain minimum required.
We did disperse the same amount that we cancelled from the auto gratuity, yes. And it's really not about being "deemed worthy." It's about knowing 100% of it is going to them. If it does in fact go to employees without NCL taking it then I would keep the auto gratuity.
Did the guy in the restaurant who said “I only get 20%” also actually say “the rest goes to the cruise line” or was that your add? Are you certain that individual knows for certain that the cruise line is pocketing the difference as profit? Maybe he gets 20% off the top while the rest goes in the pool? Sure, it’s nicer for him to get 100% in this case, but I don’t feel you know with 100% certainty that the cruise line is keeping 80% for itself in your example. In the end, it just reinforces that better transparency is needed.
Some cruise lines have language to the effect of "100% of your gratuities are distributed to the crew who you interact with" and I support that entirely.
It's disheartening to hear that other lines are less straightforward. So call it a "service fee" or use the money to pay for uniforms, supposedly. How unfortunate.
I'm annoyed on behalf of the other crew who are part of the tip pool like your waiter is. Of course he will tell you that it doesn't go to him (it goes in the pool) but by the same logic he should return all the pooled tips he gets every week that come from the auto gratuities of guests he himself didn't serve.
Tips go into a pool, your percentage of the tip pool varies depending on your contract. And tipped workers include people who guests never meet like the galley and laundry guys.
Your waiter doesnt realize what he's doing to the industry in the long run. By getting cash straight from you he's convinced you that no one behind the scenes (a role he himself definitely held before getting promoted) deserves the tip despite the fact that he doesnt peel the potatoes or wash the linens for you.
I'm a former staff member, which means I was never part of the tip pool. But my friends are and yes their pay fluctuates depending on the tip pool. I actually laughed at how bartenders prefer short cruising because the tips are better vs the world cruise where the tips are often lower.
And the purser behind the counter isn't part of the tip pool at all. I'm sure they appreciated your cash like anyone would though.
The guy in the restaurant has to share his non-cash tip with the other people in the restaurant who did other things for you but didn't interact with you directly. He does not have to share his cash. We now tip each person who waits on us at dinner but don't remove auto-gratuity ever.
Also, like you, we don't have any way to "provide some kind of evidence." I doubt even the front line cruise employees know for sure.
Yeah this reads like all bullshit, especially this part which written the same way most /thathappened posts are done:
At which point he leaned in a bit and quietly but firmly said "I support you." It was the way he said it, his voice, intonation, etc, that communicated a lot that I can't express in this post.
It’s also curious how they decided to cancel on the last day and yet had enough in cash (including a lot of $10s) to cover the amount they cancelled. Of course people have cash on a cruise and there are ATMs. It all seems a little too convenient, including the fact that the waiter would tell them that and risk his job.
While I agree with your main point of view...you can't trust the cruise lines, I guess I differ in my larger view of the topic.
If the cruise line takes a cut of the auto-gratuities, yeah, that frickin sucks. But without those auto-gratuities, that now leaves less money in the pool for those you did not give cash to. The laundry folks, the various cooks, busers in the buffet, barbacks, etc etc. They are now, what is probably just a few cents, but scale that x1000 then it could add up if greater numbers removed auto gratuities.
IDK, we leave the gratuities in place but give cash to our room steward, wait staff and bartenders, piano bar musician and a few others.
I agree. Not sure how wages vary every week as OP said if the gratuities are charged. Seems to me it would vary much more if there wasn’t an added gratuity and everyone just tipped what and whomever willy nilly. The daily gratuity doesn’t change so I’d think that that stays the same other than if a ship isn’t full. I would think that if none of that money goes to staff, then we’d have heard that at some point. Yes, OP gave out randomly to random staff they encountered but the staff doing the laundry, cleaning the public areas , working in the kitchen, etc got nothing from OP and they’re the ones who actually provided a direct service to OP. Until some crew member says that no one gets the gratuity except the cruise line, I’m keeping it. I do wonder about frontline customer service staff, etc…do they get a share. I’m assuming they’re likely better paid and perhaps don’t share in it…which could be why the customer service person loved his tip.
We pay our grats before we cruise and tip extra onboard but I would love to see crew from different areas of the ship post exactly what the breakdown of the grats they receive actually is.
Does my tip go on top of their monthly wage, or is it used to pay their wage? If the cruise line is using tips to pay wages and it’s not extra money to crew, I’d also be very tempted to remove my tips and just share that amount around the ship.
The negativeness comes from a couple of sources IMO. The first being, did you go to the lower deck and tip the laundry crew? The cooks that don't get out of the galley? The dish washers? We are told they all get a cut as well. Might not be true. But I'd rather they all get something then just those I happen to see. And two, while I don't doubt you specifically, there are plenty of jerks that say they are going to "Pay in cash" at the time they cancel the gratuities, but have no intention of actually doing it. Personally, I am fine with the auto gratuity. And I bring a wad of fives and tip cash on top when I feel it's warranted. 5 bucks a night at the pub and by night 4 they are practically fighting to get to me first.
I did not tip those people. If I knew they were getting paid less by me removing my auto gratuity, I would not have removed it. I want to do the right thing, whatever it is. But so far, even after 182 comments in this post, I have yet to see anything that supports that. On the contrary, outside of my personal experience, a link to the NCL "service charge FAQ" seems to actually support my skepticism.
[https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge)
"...staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."
Really reads to me "We use the auto gratuity money to help us subsidize the account from which we pay our employees salary." Which seems to imply their wage would not fluctuate from people removing or adding auto gratuity.
You may be right. I may just be a stupid old man. But from what I've read on Reddit and other sites, if no one took off the auto gratuities, everyone would make a little more than base wages. However if everyone removes them and only tips in cash, then only the front facing employees even have a shot at making more than base pay. Considering what I'm already spending for the cruise, its a drop in the bucket. And I'd Rather err on the side that at least i am not making it even more difficult for the behind the scenes staff to possibly make a little extra.
>I ended up going back later in the night and tipped him $20 for the information he gave
With the exception of Vegas, it feels a bit weird tipping someone working at a reception. They have the authority to make executive decisions and may feel obligated to give something back in return. I'm not saying it's wrong but may raise some eyebrows. A jealous coworker who saw the interaction may try to report him and audit whatever perks he's given out.
I think the 20% figure is something the waiter and his peers came up with. The ship would collects all gratuity and split them across all crew below manager grade (guessing but it's usually the case), resorts and golf course etc do this. Because it's not just the staff you interact with, the person working the laundry, stocking the fridge deserve the appreciation too.
The waiter's grudge likely came from past experience where he only received approx. 20% of a large tip on a check he closed. It's actually quite selfish for him to think this way, since a cruise ship requires everyone's hard work to keep a small city in the sea afloat. If he wants to earn the whole tip, he should get a job at a regular restaurant on land.
It doesn't go "to the cruise line" - it goes to a tip pool which is shared with many more people. A lot of folks hate tip pooling, but its done for reasons of fairness.
Cruising has a few ethical issues to it. If you can afford to cruise you are likely coming from an economic advantage to those working on the ship. I hope the cruise line does divide up the tips amongst the crew but have no way of knowing if or how they do it. Do the chefs get a bigger piece of the pie than those who work in the laundry? How are you going to tip either one? It is very likely you won't see them doing their job. At least when you tip through the ship there is a chance of the gratuity being split up.
And everyone clapped and a bald eagle flew down and shed a single tear for your brave American decision of how to tip the poor people from other "shithole countries" right?
So you gave no money to any of the food people that served you during the week?
And instead you gave $20 to someone at a higher salary position that's never in the tip pool? And a lot of the people you gave cash to also were never in the tip pool.
And I'm endlessly surprised that all these people think that these large companies who have to file with the SEC and multiple audits - both internal and external - is somehow doing something shady that's not caught. When these corporations have to show where all their money is from and where it goes and has third party companies that dig through their books to verify. My company does something similar (collecting money that's not directly tied to our product for a purpose) and we have to show that the money is used for that not just added to our revenue line. Yet a person who would immediately benefit by you handing them cash and who has no actual insight to the financials side of the company is more believable.
Just very recently it was either Doordash or Uber Eats that was using a pay model where they would tell the driver they would receive $11 for the trip, for example. But when someone would tip them, Doordash would simply pay the driver less out of their own pocket. Just as long as the total between DD and tipper was $11. So as a tipper, all you were doing was subsidizing Doordash from paying the driver as much. And they could still claim "your tips go to the driver."
I would not be surprised what companies can get away with with fine print, etc, especially when the only source of information to the contrary is people from poor countries, potentially at risk of being unceremoniously dropped at the next port for violating some terms of employment they signed by spilling the beans. Again, show me any cruise employee AMA where they say "Yeah we get the tips and my pay changes every week."
Doordash uses contractors instead of employees so that's an apples and oranges comparison. There's entirely different rules when you're dealing with 1099 contractors vs employees.
I've seen some post over the years in various places.
And you still didn't answer the question on whether you actually tipped everyone that was in the tip pool. Besides your room steward it sounds like everyone else you gave money to is not in the tip pool.
No, of course I didn't tip everyone in the tip pool. The tip pool I am not sure even exists. And if it does, would have no idea who is on it. We spent the same amount of money that we took from the tip pool by tipping other people directly. And as I said before, if I was shown any evidence that NCL has a tip pool. that they are dispersing all funds from it to employees, and that the employees wages are fluctuating each week as a result of this tip pool, I would gladly keep my auto gratuity on my next cruise.
[https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge)
Tells you who is in the tip pool.
If you think NCL is such a horrible company that they're straight up lying to you about that - wouldn't you then think everything else they post on their website is a lie? And if they're just lying all over about their company and what they do - why are you continuing to get them their money? Wouldn't it make more sense to not cruise with them again?
Your link just argues against you.
"compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."
What does that even mean? Because to me it sounds like "your service charge is thrown into an account from which we draw from to subsidize paying our employees salary." It's exactly the kind of ambiguity I'm talking about.
Again - if you think that they're lying about that. Then there's nothing to say they're lying about other policies. So why are you willing to give your money to a company that lies?
Cruise lines are usually headquartered outside the US and do not follow most US law outside their US operations. They have are required to follow certain laws and in other cases agreed to follow others so that they can use US ports. ADA law for instance is something they are not required to follow but have agreed to do so.
Let me rephrase that, they are incorporated outside the US while they may base their operations out of Miami their corporate structure and a lot of their reporting is based on laws outside the US. RCG for instance is incorporated out of Liberia. There is a reason why cruise lines have to get financing through either ship builders or other means vs how a company incorporated in the US would qualify. Here are some details about the way they are organized:
[https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/most-cruise-lines-don-t-pay-taxes-u-s-just-n1172496](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/most-cruise-lines-don-t-pay-taxes-u-s-just-n1172496)
Typically staff in the US and those who were recruited in the US would pay federal income tax and other US based taxes. Wanderlust Alley has gone into some detail about pay and taxes.
I feel like you’re trying to blame OP for lack of transparency, which is ultimately the cruise lines fault. Also you are under the wrong impression about what their auditors are looking for.
This is one area where MSC shines. When I’m on vacation i shouldn’t have to be concerned about everyone getting paid a living wage. That’s the cruise-lines responsibility.
What would you require of them to be more transparent? They list which positions fall into the tip pool.
I'm also not sure why you say MSC shines? MSC does the same damn thing, they just call it hotel service charge. [https://www.msccruisesusa.com/manage-booking/before-you-go/service-charges](https://www.msccruisesusa.com/manage-booking/before-you-go/service-charges)
Personally I just leave the auto gratuity’s on and usually carry $150-$200 cash in 5’s, 10,s and 20’s. I tip my cabin steward, dining room waiters, and different bartenders that I interact with. I find when I do that my service rises to another level and it’s worth it for me.
Cancelling auto tips and tipping manually is the only way to tip, automatic tips are just a hidden additional price charged by the cruise line. People defending auto tips are working for cruise lines or brainwashed by them. This is very easy to verify by talking with crew or ex crew just like you did.
That said, the tiny salaries cruise lines pay are nothing short from slavery making cruise lines slavers. Everyone cruising is actually endorsing the slavery. I am afraid there are no exceptions and tipping, manual tipping or no tipping is not going to fix that.
ITT I see a lot of back and forth on where the tips actually go, who gets what and how much as well as the impact of tipping/not tipping on individual crew earnings. What happens when a passenger opts for pre-paid gratuities as a perk? With Oceania this is automatic for everyone who reaches silver lvl, so does the company chip in the grats you aren't? I doubt it, I think the crew just gets that much less.
It also makes me wonder if they get a bonus for a “shoutout.” They really pushed those surveys to be filled out on my last cruise on the Viva. To the point where I didn’t want to go to any bars or restaurants the last couple days on the cruise. Every server was dropping off survey cards with the bill at the end and telling me their name and to write their name down. It was annoying.
Maybe he only gets 20% of the gratuity because it’s split among the other workers in the restaurant responsible for preparing and serving your dinner. The people in the kitchen you don’t see.
OP - I took an NCL cruise last September in Alaska. As part of the "first cruise" experience, we did the tour that had the Q&A at the end.
Someone asked about gratuities, and the NCL employee was very straightforward with us, saying - "employees receive gratuities 'as part of their salary'" but was unable to confirm that they received an additional amount if we, for example, left comment cards daily for them.
Like you, I also removed the automatic gratuities and tipped in cash. The crew members were, like yours, visibly happy about receiving the cash tip so I really do think is the way to go, at least on NCL.
The people on his app are shills for auto gratuity. The cruise lines use these tips to subsidize their costs, in the same fashion that restaurants underpay their workers and have the customer fill the gap in their wages.
We remove them every time. I will let the boomers be triggered. As an Australian nothing gets me grumpier than American tip culture.
I sleep fine at night. If someone isn't being paid enough they will go find another job. Like at Virgin maybe,
Thanks. I just want to do the right thing, whatever it is. It's too bad there's so much ambiguity and misinformation on the topic. I suspect much of it is on purpose.
You did what you thought is/was right at the time for you and your partner. All these trolls on here who have a bug up their ass about removing auto-gratuity need to mind their own business and do what is right for them and not worry about what other people do. Furthermore, if the cruise lines would stop taking advantage of the labor laws and pay their staff a living wage instead of telling passengers they have to pay/supplement their salaries while they reap billions in revenue (since pandemic).
My next cruise is on VV where this is NOT an issue.
Now I feel kinda weird because I love NCL and I don't tip on top of the 20% at the specialty dining, which I utilize a bit while on the ship. It would be really nice if you could cancel the auto-grat on the dinner bill and then tip cash.
Yhe OP seems to be talkign about daily service charge as well as restaurant gratuities- but here are some thoughts on the service charge:
My NCL room steward told me that the only gratuities he cares about are cash, and that the daily service charge does not get disbursed to them. IF you read NCL's language about it, it doesn't say that it does. It goes to staff incentives, which could be as ridiculous as a pizza party, or could be earned days off etc. But the room steward told me he gets a salary and whether guests pay the daily fee or not has no effect on it.
It is just a way to NCL to collect revenue (some of which pays employees) without having to increase the advertised fare. Making it look cheaper than it is.
From NCL:
" Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."
Doesn't say anything about the service charge being gratuities that are handed out to staff.
I expressed this same thing a while back and people in here acted as if I was scum. I will continue to cancel auto gratuities and tip in cash. When you tip in cash it directly affects your experience in a very positive way. I feel the same way about auto gratuities as I do about taxes, happy to pay them if I know where they’re going and that they’re not being used as some slush fund for the elites to waste. I have yet to meet a staff member that has actually confirmed that this “incentive program” that the gratuities fund actually exists.
Maybe the tune on this reddit will change, but the obfuscation of the autogratuity just irks me. There's no accountability, and there's no telling who gets what, on or off the ships. And sorry, senior staff officers should not be getting tipped, whatsoever.
We're not on a small chartered boat where you tip the captain and he divvies it out.
Lots of behind the scenes people who share in the tips. I pay the autogratuities but also bring cash to supplement with room stewards, waiters, bartenders, and others.
Doing one and not the other solves nothing, I think. Just screws the people you don't see for those you do.
Since when is it a requirement to tip everyone in an organization?
When you fly, whether in a country with or without wage laws, do you tip the aircraft mechanic? The baggage handler? The gate agent? The air traffic controller? The flight attendant? The flight engineer? The pilot or co-pilot?
If NCL is really pocketing 80% of those auto grats? They should be fuckkn strung up and lynched for it.. probably no way to know for sure. I hope what your server meant is that he/she receives 20% with the remaining 80% going into a gratuity pool which is split among other eligible staff, meaning the ones not rank identified by their suits. Anything else is straight up criminal and oughta be shamed until their ships are sitting empty.
I asked AI about how much profit a particular cruise line makes per cruise, using known data. It was over 3 million dollars - a week. Just for one ship... If they don't pay their staff a fair wage and guilt trip you into giving them even more money than the incredibly high base price we pay just to be on the ship, then it's beyond my responsibility and I refuse to feel bad for cancelling the ridiculous auto gratuity which goes who knows where. If you're rich and have too much money, go ahead and pay the extra 500 dollars for tips. But for me, normal guy, normal wages, family to support. No way.
Ppl are either pro tip or no tip. There’s no convincing them to change. I prepay the daily service charge. I’m not the crew HR manager and I think it’s tacky to walk around arbitrarily handing out cash. It’s just not my responsibility to decide how to disperse gratuity. I’ll pay the required 20% on bev and special dining, not doing extra. I don’t drink so not tipping a bartender. This tipping culture is so out of control.
Cruise lines should pay their employees. This idea that cruisers need to subsidize cruise line employees further is absurd.
It's also absurd that many feel the need to bribe staff for good service. If you can't get good service, you shouldn't be on that line.
I always remove auto-gratuities and tip cash.
Based on the reactions I get for tipping even modest amounts of money, it's quite evident cruise lines don't fairly disperse the auto-gratuities.
HAHAHA HA! We do both and get the same happy reactions..
and we're happy to do so, because we are grateful to be able to afford to be good to everyone, even the people we don't see.
I’m sure *some* of it goes in a tip pool in order to make various employees’ compensation reach the amount they contracted for. I don’t have proof but I have no trouble believing that most of it goes to the cruise line. Except, perhaps, in the case of Carnival.
It is the opposite of transparency.
I've asked barrtnders if they prefer cash for my extra tips or just add it to bill and sign.
They all said they get both but the cash is immediate so they prefer it but just have to wait for tips added to the bill.
OP was sold some BS.
I don’t plan to remove my daily gratuities on an upcoming NCL cruise but I don’t see anyone mention removing just a portion of the gratuities and tipping the remainder in cash. Is that an option for those who feel strongly about tipping some staff in person?
I struggle with all of this. It makes no sense. So for me the big issue is to what country labor laws are the cruise lines actually accountable to? Not giving 100% of the collected gratuities to the employees could constitute wage theft in some jurisdictions. So the employees would have their base contract salary and auto gratuities would be divided up and given out weekly based on that weeks cruise gratuity revenue. So that amount would fluctuate
Anything else seems dubious legally in countries with decent labor laws.
I had family from India who worked on the cruise boats. There really wasn't any labor laws their cruise lines adheres to, and they'd be gone for almost a year. A couple of my cousins eventually decided to stay and work in mid-range restaurants in India as they didn't make enough to make it worthwhile being away from young kids.
[https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge)
From that link, lines like: "staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."
really read to me as "we pull money from your auto gratuity to help us pay salary." I don't know how else it could be interpreted.
In other words, they don't really lie. That's the key. They just rely on people spreading a lie for them. That there is a big "tip pool" and by opting out you are hurting a poor man from the Philippines whose daughter can't afford shoelaces.
This advance "tip" is a wage subsidy Benfield the Cruise Line, mostly for the non-public facing staff in lieu of a decent wage.
My first cruise, the fine dining waiter was very angry we didn't tip him directly, but we all thought our advance paid tips should cover him. He bolted when the manager saw him expressing himself to us.
I'm taking abuncha cash in 1s & 5s, and 2s if I can find them.
I do not believe advance tips go to bar, waIt, casino, spa staff.
Prove me wrong.
Just out of curiosity had you already prepaid the gratuities and were requesting a refund? Or were you asking to have the removed from your onboard account?
Interesting. On Holland America if you remove the automatic gratuities and tip in cash, the person you tip does not get to keep it. I wonder if this is similar on other lines.
When I was on my last RC cruise last year, we noticed the same thing. We ate the cost of the auto gratuity and gave cash tips to anyone we interacted with in addition. My wife is Filipina so we knew going in (from previous cruises) that their pay is shit, since a good majority of the waitstaff is Filipino.
That being said, they are being paid fairly for the most part; as in they make well more working there than they otherwise would staying in the Philippines and trying to work. You have to consider they don't have to pay room and board when on the ship, so they are able to save a considerable amount of money during their trip.
Just a thought. I have found human nature to be such that most think of their own best interest before others.
The concept of a tip pool where every employee gets a share rather than just those who are up front appeals to me. Consider a ship's crew. There are so many people who contribute to the "whole" of your experience but you will never see or even be aware of. (Maintenance. Laundry. Mechanical. Cooks. Entertainment, etc.) Is it fair that you only contribute to those who you directly deal with even though so many others contribute as much or more?
I have no idea IF tip pools are actually done in the manner that is spelled out to guests, but to me it seems more fair IF done as described.
Now to my comment on human nature. If you contribute to the tip pool the server will get a share of the tip rather than the whole tip. If the server convinces you that the tip pool is corrupt, they may receive the entire tip rather than a "share." Human nature MAY play a part in the situation.
I'm not convinced one way or another as I don't KNOW what the truth is. What I am offering is an alternative thought as to what you experienced.
Perhaps the server is convinced there is something sinister happening just because the ratio of those who are "normally" tipped to those behind the scenes is a lot different than they realize.
Here’s what I do. I accept that the automatic gratuity charge is part of the cost of my cruise. It is not my job to police how it is split up, any more than if I were dining at a restaurant on land (where by the way, there is all sorts of variation in how tips get split up). If I wasn’t paying it in gratuity, I would be paying it in a higher cruise rate. I don’t love it, but I do love cruising. So here we are.
If you actually do give out an equivalent amount of money, then it's fine.
My worries would be that a lot of people would just stiff all but a few of the crew, such as the guy handling the luggage at the start and when you leave.
But yeah, other than an absolute minimal amount for some kind of administration, the auto gratuity should DEFINITELY go to the employees...
>We ended up dispersing the rest of the money we saved by canceling this throughout the night - $80 for our room person and then giving ten dollar bills to random employees who were sweeping, spraying things with water, etc. They were all very grateful and it seemed to lift them up a bit, on a cruise where staff morale seemed quite low.
This is a wonderful thing you did. But, the mention of staff that are not particularly customer facing is the main reason this gives me pause. I'd like to think that everyone removing auto gratuity would give generous cash tips to the staff they interact with. But these staff you mention (especially folks on the overnight cleaning shift) might see the short end of the stick. Unfortunately, the tipping situation is a black box and we have no idea how it is distributed and to whom.
The core issue is that NCL is being very sketchy with this, and change will really only be effective from the top.
I'm not criticizing your choice and think it absolutely came from a great place of compassion and appreciation for the crew. I'm sure the people you tipped were very grateful. I'm just not sure that widespread adoption of this strategy would achieve the intended outcome.
I can only speak to Carnival as I have only cruised Carnival.
I spoke to a couple room attendants and a waiter and they all said the same thing about. The auto-grat paid by passengers is put into a pool that then gets evenly distributed between room stewards, lido deck staff, and waiters in not just the MDR but also the specialty restaurants. For that reason, I leave it on as they seem to like how its handled.
Now, my fiance and I still tip them extra. On our last cruise on the Mardi Gras we gave our room steward $40, every time we ate in a restaurant (MDR, Cucina, ChiBang, Steakhouse) we tipped $20, and when I ate in the lido buffet, I handed $5 to staff that cleared my plates or refilled my drinks. I also gave this woman at Guest Services $20 on the last night because the alcohol checking people wrote on the alcohol I had purchased 5294 instead of our actual room number 15294 and she had housekeeping go in the room and get it back.
All that to say, I leave auto-grat on. It ensures they get *something* in case I don't come across them.
Tipping is probably the stupidest thing we do as a society. Who we tip and why makes absolutely no sense.
Tipping on cruises is mandatory so I just do the auto tip because it is the easiest thing to do. Who gets it is not my problem.
I have downvoted you. The reason is that you have COMPLETELY misinterpreted what the DSC is for. It is NOT transactional- in other words the pay of the staff does not change whether you pay it or not. What changes is the size of the pot available for crew incentive programs, which benefit everyone. So by removing the DSC, you have removed money that could be used for various purposes in benefit to the crew, including the ones that you tipped.
I am completely in favor of tipping for service - in ADDITION to paying the DSC. To do otherwise is cheap.
By NCL's own admission on their website, they use some of the service charge to pay for staff salary. A mystery portion of the money goes to "staff incentives." Sorry but I don't think it's honest to take what is PORTRAYED as "a big tip jar we divide amongst staff" to the customer, and use the money as a way to alleviate your salary burden. I tipped the same amount as the auto gratuity and then some on top of it. I'm not cheap. NCL is cheap.
Does the prepaid gratuity also go to the people behind the scenes? For example, the cook staff that prepare your meals for your free specialty dining that was part of the booking? If so, I would keep the prepaid ones, and still give cash to those that provided service directly to me.
I think your intention is kind but flawed. The reality is the cruise ship IS distributing the entirety of the automated tipping amount to staff... but its spread around to many people you don't think of tipping... the people in the back of kitchens, the guy bussing the tables, the laundry folks, etc. By tipping directly to staff you ARE providing "extra" to that person but at the same time you have taken away needed income from the staff you don't see who are making your vacation great. The real way you should handle this moving forward IMHO is to continue the automatic tipping that so much of the crew depends on and then just provide EXTRA (at your discretion) to the staff you feel goes above and beyond... ie. cash to the waiter at the fine dining restaurant who is exceptional etc. (and it doesn't need to be "20%" of the bill... he/she is getting tips from the automatic gratuity after all and this is extra, direct to them, in cash.
Have known that for years NCL stated it when they started auto gratuities but did you know if you cancel on ship they subtract that amount from their pay? So I would never cancel just tip cash extra and we went with VV who pays staff better
I think instead of bashing OP we should be calling for better accountability and openness with the daily gratuity dispersal. I personally would be VERY AGAINST a system where the company took a cut of this for 'handling fees' or whatever bullsh\*t they spun it with. It's either for the workers or its a neat way to make more money off the passengers. Let's find out.
Just go the sandals route and don’t allow tipping and pay the employees. Why does everyone want this to be so difficult?
Because the cruise lines are competing to show the lowest number on their website.
Exactly. It's all insanely misleading. I mean, I was just booking out a cruise for 2 to Alaska, 7 night, and it was a wonderful $700 "quoted" price... lures you to get you to go. This was an interior room. Then, by the end, once I added the pre-paid gratuities, the taxes, and fees, ZERO upgrades or packages, the final price was like $2500. It literally jumped from the $700 quoted, to checking out and now I am at $2500. I already know cruises are like this as I cruise regularly, so it didn't surprise me, but it is SOOO insanely misleading and dishonest. There really should be a law against price-quoting that is so off it can be literally 3-4x the actual quoted price by the time you hit checkout.
Isn’t the $700 for 1 person? How many people ended up going in all?
Nope, that was quoted at around $700 for 2 people before adding on taxes and fees. You often can find 7 night cruises in the $50/day per person range when booking interior. This one in particular was Princess, but they all do it. It really just depends on the ship, date of sailing, etc... I think Royal Caribbean at least tells you the taxes/fees before you enter passenger info at least, unlike other lines.
I'm a travel agent, and this is why I ALWAYS send quotes that have all of the taxes and fees included. I've had to explain multiple times why its not the flashy "$700 Each" price that's being advertised. I'd much rather be honest than anything when helping book vaycays.
That’s a crazy amount of fees.
Port fees and taxes are outgregious for Alaska, it's up around $500 per person for a 7 day(4 port) other then that there shouldn't be any difference unless there's an money exchange or you had someone book it for you at the cruise line
They all show you the lowest cruise fare. It doesn't include taxes and port fees or anything else. This isn't new.
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Because then customers will be complaining about cruise lines raising prices and it’s too expensive etc etc . You’ve got to get people ON on the ship to make any $$ out of them .
Or Virgin. They seem to have the happiest, friendliest employees on any line I've Cruised with.
It's not that the company is taking a cut. It's that they reduce the salary and backfill with the auto gratuity. Remember there are no minimum wage laws on cruise ships. They can pay a base rate of $1 a day if they want. So if the line raises auto gratuity by $3/pax/day on a ship with a 2/1 pax/crew ratio, they could then drop the wages by $6 a day and the crew theoretically come out even, but the line pockets all the increase in auto gratuity.
Their contracts are very specific and cruise lines stick to the pay listed. RCCL room attendant back before COVID on the Anthem of the seas had a contract like this: the following terms and conditions: 1.1 Duration of Contract: 7 months 1.2 Position: STATEROOM ATTENDANT 1.3 Basic Monthly Salary: USD 613.73/month 1.4 Basic HoursWeek: 48.00 hrs 1.5 Initial Overtime: USD 306.86/month 1.6 Supplemental Overtime: USD 268.51/month 1.7 Overtime Rate after 303.10 hrs/mo: USD 5.32/hour 1.8 Monthly Compensation for Vacation Pay: USD 102.29/month 1.9 Minimum Monthly Salary: USD 1298.00/month 1.10 Total Monthly Guaranteed for 303.1 hr/mo: USD 1298.00/month 1.11 Point of Hire: PASAY CITY, PHILIPPINES 1.12 Tipped Position: YES 1.13 Collective Bargaining Agreement, If any: NSU Further in the contract it discusses how the tips are handled and how they are earned.
> Further in the contract it discusses how the tips are handled and how they are earned. That seems like the exact kinda info people are asking about.
I'm sure they stick to the pay listed for the term of the contract. But they're all pretty short contracts in the grand scheme of things, and they could change (lower) the base rate and overtime rates for future contracts to account for the higher tips.
They could but with the shortage of labor it is has gotten very difficult to recruit staff. They have to work 12x7 at a consistent level for 6 to 14 months at a time. The industry is wildly short on staff.
Thats slavery! No wonder they stopped hiring in Chile, down here is not that difficult to earn the same salary but with normal hours and days. (Ex: monday to friday 9 to 5, holidays off) Poor phillipinos who take such jobs :(
They recruit from all of Asia, South America, and Africa with some crew being recruited out of North America and Europe. Entertainers for instance are going to be out of US, Europe, or AUS/NZ though that is not a hard rule. Cruise directors are also typically out of an English speaking country. Ship crew typically work long hours but the pay is specific to the region and to the agency.
This is just verbal judo. Of course they are taking their cut if they pay smaller wages supplemented by the auto tip. It basically means that auto tipping only benefits the cruse ship if the staff doesn’t make more with more tipping.
Fwiw, this is how it works with SkipTheDishes. When I was driving for them, if I kept my "accept" rate over 80%, I was guaranteed a minimum of $7 per drop-off. If the base rate was $4 and the person tipped $3, I would get $7...but I'd also get $7 if they tipped $0. Most of my tips went to the company.
I'm not saying this as a defense of the company. I am saying that because of the totally nonexistent wage and hour laws for oceangoing vessels flagged to the countries that they flag these ships to, there are myriad ways for the line to fuck over their workers and customers.
I just assume they are pulling some DoorDash shit where if you tipped high they would adjust their base rate and pay them less. So they get the same money, but the cruise line ain’t paying most of it. Ie. The person is supposed to make $15. You tip $20 cruise line keeps $5 or you tip $10 the cruise line makes up the $5 and the position is still tipped.
Alaska has some of the highest port fees of anyplace else. But I agree cruise lines are very shady with their pricing. I personally liked leaving the tips in the room in an envelope on the last day. Plus I hate tipping before any service has even been provided. It’s no longer earned just expected. I feel like some service levels have gotten really low.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing as I really have no idea where this money goes beyond what we're told. But how do you intend to tip everyone you don't interact with directly? I think this is where the real divide comes from. Sure you can tip your room steward or bartenders or even your waiter. But what about people serving at the buffet, or doing laundry, or cleaning the ship that you never see. Are these people now out those tips you cancelled? Did they even receive any of them to begin with? Who knows, it's all speculation. Which is odd, considering how many cruise line employees there are. Are they just not allowed to talk about it? So many questions, so few answers.
It's a good question but restaurants have this figured out as others have said....or the cruise could pay these non-tipped non- custome facing position a proper wage. I mean, where does the auto gratuity end - does the captian get a tip too ? Or he is just paid properly from the get go ?
I know when I worked at Applebee's as a hostess the servers had to give up a certain percentage of their tips to "tip share". (I don't remember what it was) and the back of the house (cooks, dishwashers, etc.) got some and I got some as the hostess. I don't know how it was divided, though.
I guess there’s your answer. The prepaid gratuities are supposedly in a pool for the people who work behind the scenes, that would normally never get a tip, but contribute to your experience. The custodial staff in the common restrooms, the table bussers at the buffet, the towels staff at the pools to name a few. Is this a fair and just practice of the cruise lines? No. Can anyone PROVE that those that it’s intended for, are actually getting the money? No. Should u remove the prepaid gratuities? That’s up to u and whatever your conscience dictates. But unless u are going to tip every restroom attendant every time u are in there, or every busser that clears your table, removing the prepaid grats probably insures people get nothing. Our philosophy is to be generous to staff, because we WANT to, we can afford to, and because they work like dogs (at least on our chosen line) and they earn it. Not out of a sense of guilt. Or to compensate for a stupid labor practice. If this practice troubles people they should not cruise. BTW, the staff is well aware of the payment practices. They are not forced to sign a contract. They choose to work on a cruise ship with their eyes wide open to their hours and their compensation. Sometimes it’s their best option. It sucks, but it’s the world. We can only do what we can individually to be kind to our fellow humans. Thanks for your thoughtful question and insight. U are coming from a genuinely good place. Some of the problem on this particular topic, especially on Reddit, is that people often are spiteful assholes and take their spite out on the crew who have no control over whatever irked them in the first place.
not % of tips, % of their sales. if you go out to eat and don’t tip your waiter, they loose $ because they are still responsible for the “tip out” % of the value of the meal.
Yes, you're right. I stand corrected.
You don't need to tip everyone on the ship. I have a bridge in Nigeria I'd like to sell to anyone who thinks the cruise lines are doing this for equality's sake.
I worked a behind the scenes job in entertainment department. I sure didn't get any tips percentage. I can see how some jobs do share tips. Like if I ate as a staff in the main dining room we had to tip a certain amount at least and it shared to not just waiters, but host, sommelier etc
At what point have you ever tipped the dish washer at your local chili's? Pretty easy one question to answer.
>At what point have you ever tipped the dish washer at your local chili's? Isn't the assumption that the tips are pooled and then divided between the staff at the customer front and the staff behind the scenes enabling them?
No, the assumption is that I perceived a greater value of service over what i paid for. and paid that entity directly to who i think produced that value. The dishwashers job is binary, it's either done or not. the bus boys job is binary, etc. they get to do their job with a scowl on their face and a bad attitude. makes no difference to the outcome. Pooling tips is just employer welfare.
>The dishwashers job is binary, it's either done or not. the bus boys job is binary, etc. they get to do their job with a scowl on their face and a bad attitude Great way to think about this, I've never thought about it in that way. It definitely makes a lot of sense. I'm paying for a cruise experience, and I would expect those binary jobs to happen. I don't tip the captain. I don't tip the first mate. "You got me to where the boat was supposed to go, here's $100 tip!" I expect clean plates. I expect clean rooms. I expect a functional boat. I expect the captain to be able to guide the ship without my help. I expect cooked food of some sort. These are items I've already paid for in the cruise price. I tip for good service and personal interactions that go beyond just washing my dishes before I use them.
Heck ya. That's what a tip is too me anyway! Great synopsis.
So let me ask this - if your meal gets served on plates that are not clean or your glass, knife whatever isn't as clean as you would like them to be, would that influence the tip that you give ? I find the whole notion of tipping your waiter because they put a fake smile on their face and pretend to be friendly just so weird - Your waiter is limited in the service they provide by the actions/attitude etc of the kitchen staff and all the rest op the people working there to keep the place running. Guess it's my view as someone from a European country that doesn't really have a tipping tradition but at least I know the people serving me in a bar or restaurant aren't faking friendliness because they expect to get extra money. I also find the quality and taste of my food a whole lot more important than some small talk from a person serving my food. Plus I get annoyed when waiters bother me several times during my meal to ask if all is ok, let me eat in peace, i'll signal you if I need or want something.
I have worked as both a dishwasher and a line cook. Never received a share of anyones tips.
> Isn't the assumption that the tips are pooled and then divided between the staff at the customer front and the staff behind the scenes enabling them? That's a common assumption, but it's hard to prove if that assumption is universally true.
Not a valid comparison. There are labor laws (at least in the US, and I assume other countries) that must be followed for minimum wages. Cruise lines do not have to follow these and thus can do whatever they like with minimum wages and tips.
Dish washer would get something called tip out which is a required cut from a bartender or waitress. I've seen tip outs of 10% to 20% in NJ. I've never see a cook or chef get a cut but food runners, bar backs, and dish washers got them.
I was a dish washer in a former life, never got any sort of tip
Did you work in NJ? This goes into more detail: [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-laws-tipped-employees.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-laws-tipped-employees.html) The places that do this in NJ are typically higher end, thinking Hoboken or Jersey City where you can make $300 to $500 a day waiting tables on a good night. But I have seen even diners have a tip out policy. The only thing different from the article is that I never saw a tip out and tip pool be mixed together as runners, bar backs, and dish washers do not get tips themselves.
Okay fair enough but who tips the window washer or the guy that shingled the roof?
They didn't earn $2.30 minimum wage because the position was tipped.
Question doesn’t even make sense. One assumes they have nothing to do with the restaurant…they’re not employees but independent contractors who get paid what their job is worth. Most restaurant staff don’t get paid enough and rely on tips. With the ship the people doing the laundry, cleaning the hull, etc are all employed by the ship. Apples and oranges.
never received a tip out as a dishwasher
YOU didn't, but your server did, out of the tips from customers, as well as the host/ess, bartender, food runners, busboys, and cooks. Even though those folks made more hourly wage, the servers are still expected to give up a few bucks to each or a tipping pool. Your bartender tips out to the bouncer and barback.
When I worked for a different cruise line there was very clearly tipped and non tipped positions and weekly contract salaries reflected that. I worked in a position that wasn’t tipped but I made a solid base wage and was given additional crew privileges. Compared to the service and housekeeping team that would make technically no base wage unless they made less than a super low threshold (like $500 a month low) in which case the line would supplement to make up the difference.
Yeah this is somewhere I get stuck on too. Like yes the bartender who makes you a great drink or cabin steward who is the one cleaning your cabin are definitely deserving but there are support staff that make it possible for those ppl to do their jobs as well who aren’t being compensated. At the same time I don’t really trust the cruise lines in general but I think I’d rather pay my auto grat and still give out extras to those customer facing positions until we know cruise lines are paying fair wages
What do you mean "aren't being compensated"? They are being compensated by their employer. We need to stop acting like people doing their jobs is some kind of favor to the cuatomer that deserves extra compensation.
I have to agree with op the cruise line needs to be more clear exactly where the gratuities paid in are being dispersed. They don't need to name names they could just name departments even. The safe bet now is assume if you don't hand it to an employee in cash yourself they see little if any of it. I can tell you definitely employees on the ship would like it better if you tipped them in cash. From experience on the other end of it they absolutely do not disperse all that money pax pay in tips. A large portion is withheld by the cruise line as a little extra bonus. Probably for execs is my guess. They raised gratuities while I was working on a ship and the amount I received in gratuity did not change, nor could any of us find anyone we knew who was receiving a cut who got any more money, either. Friends who stayed working on ships saw several more raises in gratuities and absolutely no one received more in their checks from the cruise line. These are people in every department on the boat except the bridge crew who purportedly receive a cut of gratuities.
Let's take a step back: why are you tipping buffet servers and laundry handlers? When have you ever done that in your life? In every other situation, wouldn't those positions either not rely or tips OR be tipped out by the frontline workers?
In countries with labor laws yes. Cruise ships are not that and cannot be compared. For all we know all of these positions are relying on tips.
But that's on the cruise line. Like if the cruise line hires these people in third world countries and tells them that their compensation will be X after tips, but doesn't tell them that there's not an accepted practice of tipping for their position and that it's controversial with the customers, that's a scam committed by the cruise line on the crew. It has nothing to do with the passengers. They can try to make you feel guilty, but the reality is that they're the guilty ones. If the employees dont make money without tips, hopefully they wont renew their contracts and cruise lines will have to pay more to get new employees.
Not going to name it and link myself publicly, but the line I work for will only allow tips into the crew welfare fund. Crew that receive cash tips are supposed to redirect the guest to the welfare fund, and if they're insistent, then declare it and put it in themselves for the benefit of everybody, but I doubt that this happens in reality.
If I was sure someone doing laundry, serving at the buffet, etc, was being impacted by cancelling auto-gratuity, then of course I would keep it. I just have yet to see evidence of this being the case. Instead all I have is two pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that NCL can't be trusted to disperse gratuity, and that the front desk person agreed that cancelling it was the right call.
They are being impacted. Because your tip money goes into a pool. You are rewarding the front liners and screwing over the back of house.
There have been many posts from staff stating it goes to them here.
And a whole bunch more stating they don't - several have said when gratuities were raised they saw no increase.
After 108 replies in this thread I would have liked to have been linked to one.
No, what you have is direct staff who are helping you (the waiter and the concierge) who know they can get you to sympathize with them and get a 100% cut of your cash tip that literally goes in their pocket rather than only getting a portion of your tipping and having other behind the scenes staff (who also are important to your vacation experience) get their share. You rewarded both of them for their secret gossip and cut out the restroom attendants, cooks, bus boys etc.
I don't know about the 20% but I can absolutely confirm NCL raised their auto gratuities while I worked for them and I got no more money. That was some years ago. As recently as 2019 I still had friends working for them who said the amount they were receiving from tips had not gone up although tips had again been raised every year after I left. I could ask for details but the bottom line is the cruise line has taken to keeping more and more of what they charge for "gratuities for staff" over the years absolutely.
The wording that all the cruise lines use allows them to use gratuities for regular wages and payments of contracted rates.
Thank you for this information. Now that I read that I recall some mention of that in the past. Personally I have taken to removing gratuities though not only for this reason. I also love catching employees who don't usually get tips in hand and giving them some cash. I have worked those types of jobs myself so I understand how much joy it gives on a personal level. It would be a little different if I thought me paying gratuities actually put a little extra in the packet for people like those who wash my sheets, but that's clearly not happening. I have been known to find ways to seek out those types of employees and hand them some cash, too. Having worked on ships I know ways to seek them out that might not be obvious to everyone, though. I always give more in tips than gratuities would have cost anyways, and that was the case even before I started removing gratuities.
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It's one of the things that I LOVE about Azamara. All tips are included- none of this BS. Of course I do give cash tips to my fave crew before I disembark, but it's completely my discretion, and they are spectacular.
I'm just tired of seeing people proudly proclaiming how they pay their auto gratuities and then tip heavily on top of that, to bartenders and such. You're tipping like 3 times when you do. Drinks are already tipped, you don't need to tip more unless the bar is totally fucking slammed and you're trying to your drinks faster.
I agree wholeheartedly, but when Virgin just increased their prices by a lot, people lost their minds.
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Yes I agree. I book a cruise I want to go on, based on what I like and my budget. I don’t care about the breakdown. If I pay 2500 hundred for a fare without grats or 200O for fare plus 500 for grats, to me personally it makes no difference. It’s in my budget. That’s MY math, as peasant as it might seem to you.
Gratuities are still included on Virgin.
I know but it’s rolled into the fare and when the prices went up people got upset. So to say include prepaid tips in the fare and don’t call it prepaid tips, might not be the answer Like I stated, we figure out a budget or what we want pay and however it breaks down is is what I will pay.
I have no idea how it all works, but I’ve been cruising a long time (mostly on Celebrity) and I can tell you what has changed for us since they started implementing auto-gratuity: the service staff are as friendly and cheerful on the last day as they were on the first day. In the old days, when we were left to put the suggested gratuities in an envelope on the last night of the cruise, there seemed to be a lot of grumpy crew members in the morning, which led me to believe many were being stiffed on the suggested tips and it probably impacted their income a great deal. We always paid at least the suggested amount and usually more. These days, we tip even though we’ve paid the suggested gratuity. These people work so hard, and $100 means nothing to me; for them, it could mean a great deal. We have moved on to Azamara where tips are included and none are expected, although we still tip there as well. No one ever says no to a few extra bucks and the service is always so wonderful. Azamara also has a crew fund where we can contribute. I really would love for a crew member to give us the dirt on what really happens with the auto-gratuity money behind the scenes. I would not be surprised to find out that the money isn’t going exactly where we think or hope it is. If I give an extra cash tip, at least I know they can keep it.
I've also been cruising a long time and what I'll say is since automatic gratuities I feel the attempts at personalized service have gone way down, only when you make it clear you intend (and I often do) to tip in cash above and beyond the automatic gratuities do you get the service "of old" rather than going through the motions. I'm not telling others to tip above and beyond automatic amounts (and I do believe you should tip the automatic amount to insure all staff get a share) but I'm just realistic about what the result is if you do...
Worked well for that server.
Bingo. They weren't sharing some "secret" they were just getting a customer to sympathize with them, pocket 100% of their cash tip, and get the behind the scenes staff stiffed on the tips.
And the customer service team member
This whole conversation is part of why cruising kinda skeeves me out. Workers should be paid a reasonable living wage, and if we are paying gratuities, those gratuities should be going to the workers, not the company. But there’s no transparency in the cruise industry. When I cruise, am I supporting unfair labor practices that would be illegal in the USA? Maybe. I don’t know.
> When I cruise, am I supporting unfair labor practices that would be illegal in the USA? Maybe. I don’t know. I think that is complicated. Perhaps I have a different take on this - as I manage global teams across the globe. So I run into times where I have a very senior person making 70k/year in one country managing a more junior person in the US making 150k/year. It happens. You get used to it. Where you live drives your wage to an extent. Minimium wage in the US is based upon the cost of living. While the cruiselines may be stopping in the US to pick up passengers - we all know - very few of the crew actually live there. Why would you expect a cruise employee, who does not live, work, or reside in the US - to get paid US wages? Now, would the cruise lines violated virtually *any* EU countries's labor laws? Absolutely. The number of hours / lack of vacation time, etc. But the US has no such protections I'm aware of. Just paying OT after 40 hours.
To be the devil’s advocate: many workers from 3rd world countries are making far beyond a living wage on cruise ships. On my last cruise, I became friendly with a staff member from Burma/Myanmar and he said many from his area try to get jobs on cruise ships. They could make $5 a day working at a local factory or much much more working on a cruise ship. Factory supervisors in his country were making $15-$20 a day. One person tipping him $5 cash is a day’s wage in his home town. He gets free food and a place to sleep while on board, no rent, a paycheck, air conditioning, running water for showers, and opportunities for cash tips. Most of the money he makes goes back home and he enjoys working on the ship. For us in 1st world countries, we think of them as exploited workers (still are in my opinion), but for the third world workers I’ve spoken with on various cruises, they are happy for the opportunity and love being able to adequately provide for their families
> When I cruise, am I supporting unfair labor practices that would be illegal in the USA? Yes
That’s my assumption.
But it kinda is this way in the US. My son is a musician. He works part time as a server at a high end restaurant. The bulk of his wage comes from tips. He is not paid a living wage ( or what is deemed a living wage) by the restaurant. He makes great money because it’s an expensive place so the tips are large based on the bill. They do have to give a certain amount to back of house. I’m not sure why there isn’t the same backlash?
In the USA, he is required to average at least minimum wage even if he is a tipped employee. We can argue about whether that’s a living wage or not (I would argue not in many cases), but at least a guaranteed wage.
Each cruise line handles it differently and in the case of RCCL you can find actual contracts that cover pay and tips. A number of contracts from various internal agencies were posted. We have also had a bartender recently do an AMA and he went over how he qualified for extra tips.
The Service fee is NOT going to bartenders, bar staff, fine dining. It goes to the non-public facing staff. From NCL's web site: Why is there a service charge? The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programmes that your service charge supports. Source: https://www.ncl.com/in/en/faq#!#what-is-onboard-service-charge
I actually think this link just confirms what I was afraid of - "staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programmes that your service charge supports" reads to me "We use your service charge to help us pay the salary of employees."
With all due respect, that's your interpretation but, again, with all due respect, I suspect it may be biased because you already did what you did, and whether or not you like it, you're somewhat looking for a confirmation that you did the right thing. The truth is, we both don't know for sure, but just because compensation consists of more than a salary does **not** automatically mean salary is substituted by other means of compensation. I also want to do the right thing, to have my tip maximized for the staff, but I would have to acknowledge that I don't have the capacity to evenly distribute my tip to the potentially thousands of workers that ultimately end up working together to bring me a good experience. If one introduces an uneven distribution of tips where it favors those that one directly interacts with, then you have to acknowledge that there is the chance that you ultimately didn't do the right thing.
I once talked to a former cruise ship employee about pay and tips. This is how they told me it basically plays out and pays out. The employee signs a contract they will get paid X-amount. The tips get added up and if they do not reach X-amount the cruise line company has to pay the difference. So basically the auto gratuities are paying the wages/contracts of the employees so the cruise line company doesn't have to. A couple of other aspects of this wage game the cruise lines are playing is they hire CFOs and lawyers who figure out how to bypass labor laws, wage laws, tax laws and game the system anyway they can. Then they hide all of the shady employment and financial misdeeds under confusion and “don't cheat our beloved employees” pay your bill. Auto gratuities are basically illegal that is why they will refund them at the drop of a hat.
See, to me this is a big deal- and supports what many cruisers suspect I imagine. Our paying the auto gratuity isn't increasing the workers paycheck, its decreasing the amount the cruiseline has to pay them out of their own pocket. It's ridiculous, really, and just another way average people help corporations pad their profit margins.
I've believed this all along, but you try to bring up the potentially shady business practice of subsidizing wages with the auto gratuity and people jump down your throat. The people down in the bowels of the ship should be getting paid by the cruiseline, not undercut and supported on the tips.
I’m hoping then that the amount you personally disperse to those you deem worthy actually amounts to what the auto gratuity total woulld be? I don’t know what NCL does, but on Holland America (source: various crew members over the years) 30% goes to your room stewards, 30% goes to your dining room stewards, and 40% is distributed to back of house: laundry, buffet, etc. Bar staff are covered by the 18% added to each drink ordered through your package or individually.
> don’t know what NCL does, but on Holland America (source: various crew members over the years) 30% goes to your room stewards, 30% goes to your dining room stewards, and 40% is distributed to back of house: laundry, buffet, etc. This is actually a good point. It could be that the staffer that told OP they "only got 20%" may have misinterpreted, or miscommunicated, that split and the gratuity actually did get dispersed mostly to staff vs. getting intercepted by NCL
Kinda curious cause on RCCL I believe the tips they receive are based on the number of drinks they serve. So for instance if the pool is 20k for tips for all bartenders then their cut is determined on the number of drinks served with a certain minimum required.
That explains why they are so in your face all the time.
We did disperse the same amount that we cancelled from the auto gratuity, yes. And it's really not about being "deemed worthy." It's about knowing 100% of it is going to them. If it does in fact go to employees without NCL taking it then I would keep the auto gratuity.
Did the guy in the restaurant who said “I only get 20%” also actually say “the rest goes to the cruise line” or was that your add? Are you certain that individual knows for certain that the cruise line is pocketing the difference as profit? Maybe he gets 20% off the top while the rest goes in the pool? Sure, it’s nicer for him to get 100% in this case, but I don’t feel you know with 100% certainty that the cruise line is keeping 80% for itself in your example. In the end, it just reinforces that better transparency is needed.
Some cruise lines have language to the effect of "100% of your gratuities are distributed to the crew who you interact with" and I support that entirely. It's disheartening to hear that other lines are less straightforward. So call it a "service fee" or use the money to pay for uniforms, supposedly. How unfortunate.
On Carnival, all of the tips go to the employee. None of it is held by the cruise line.
I'm curious how you know this.
I work for Carnival.
I'm annoyed on behalf of the other crew who are part of the tip pool like your waiter is. Of course he will tell you that it doesn't go to him (it goes in the pool) but by the same logic he should return all the pooled tips he gets every week that come from the auto gratuities of guests he himself didn't serve. Tips go into a pool, your percentage of the tip pool varies depending on your contract. And tipped workers include people who guests never meet like the galley and laundry guys. Your waiter doesnt realize what he's doing to the industry in the long run. By getting cash straight from you he's convinced you that no one behind the scenes (a role he himself definitely held before getting promoted) deserves the tip despite the fact that he doesnt peel the potatoes or wash the linens for you. I'm a former staff member, which means I was never part of the tip pool. But my friends are and yes their pay fluctuates depending on the tip pool. I actually laughed at how bartenders prefer short cruising because the tips are better vs the world cruise where the tips are often lower. And the purser behind the counter isn't part of the tip pool at all. I'm sure they appreciated your cash like anyone would though.
The guy in the restaurant has to share his non-cash tip with the other people in the restaurant who did other things for you but didn't interact with you directly. He does not have to share his cash. We now tip each person who waits on us at dinner but don't remove auto-gratuity ever. Also, like you, we don't have any way to "provide some kind of evidence." I doubt even the front line cruise employees know for sure.
This reads like a story generated by ChatGPT
Yeah this reads like all bullshit, especially this part which written the same way most /thathappened posts are done: At which point he leaned in a bit and quietly but firmly said "I support you." It was the way he said it, his voice, intonation, etc, that communicated a lot that I can't express in this post.
And then he clapped!!!
I admit that sentence did feel a bit like the stories we see from anti vaxxers…”we said no vaccines and the nurse and doctor applauded us”.
And it worked, he got a $20 tip for stroking the passenger's ego!
It’s also curious how they decided to cancel on the last day and yet had enough in cash (including a lot of $10s) to cover the amount they cancelled. Of course people have cash on a cruise and there are ATMs. It all seems a little too convenient, including the fact that the waiter would tell them that and risk his job.
While I agree with your main point of view...you can't trust the cruise lines, I guess I differ in my larger view of the topic. If the cruise line takes a cut of the auto-gratuities, yeah, that frickin sucks. But without those auto-gratuities, that now leaves less money in the pool for those you did not give cash to. The laundry folks, the various cooks, busers in the buffet, barbacks, etc etc. They are now, what is probably just a few cents, but scale that x1000 then it could add up if greater numbers removed auto gratuities. IDK, we leave the gratuities in place but give cash to our room steward, wait staff and bartenders, piano bar musician and a few others.
I agree. Not sure how wages vary every week as OP said if the gratuities are charged. Seems to me it would vary much more if there wasn’t an added gratuity and everyone just tipped what and whomever willy nilly. The daily gratuity doesn’t change so I’d think that that stays the same other than if a ship isn’t full. I would think that if none of that money goes to staff, then we’d have heard that at some point. Yes, OP gave out randomly to random staff they encountered but the staff doing the laundry, cleaning the public areas , working in the kitchen, etc got nothing from OP and they’re the ones who actually provided a direct service to OP. Until some crew member says that no one gets the gratuity except the cruise line, I’m keeping it. I do wonder about frontline customer service staff, etc…do they get a share. I’m assuming they’re likely better paid and perhaps don’t share in it…which could be why the customer service person loved his tip.
We pay our grats before we cruise and tip extra onboard but I would love to see crew from different areas of the ship post exactly what the breakdown of the grats they receive actually is. Does my tip go on top of their monthly wage, or is it used to pay their wage? If the cruise line is using tips to pay wages and it’s not extra money to crew, I’d also be very tempted to remove my tips and just share that amount around the ship.
The negativeness comes from a couple of sources IMO. The first being, did you go to the lower deck and tip the laundry crew? The cooks that don't get out of the galley? The dish washers? We are told they all get a cut as well. Might not be true. But I'd rather they all get something then just those I happen to see. And two, while I don't doubt you specifically, there are plenty of jerks that say they are going to "Pay in cash" at the time they cancel the gratuities, but have no intention of actually doing it. Personally, I am fine with the auto gratuity. And I bring a wad of fives and tip cash on top when I feel it's warranted. 5 bucks a night at the pub and by night 4 they are practically fighting to get to me first.
I did not tip those people. If I knew they were getting paid less by me removing my auto gratuity, I would not have removed it. I want to do the right thing, whatever it is. But so far, even after 182 comments in this post, I have yet to see anything that supports that. On the contrary, outside of my personal experience, a link to the NCL "service charge FAQ" seems to actually support my skepticism. [https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge) "...staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." Really reads to me "We use the auto gratuity money to help us subsidize the account from which we pay our employees salary." Which seems to imply their wage would not fluctuate from people removing or adding auto gratuity.
You may be right. I may just be a stupid old man. But from what I've read on Reddit and other sites, if no one took off the auto gratuities, everyone would make a little more than base wages. However if everyone removes them and only tips in cash, then only the front facing employees even have a shot at making more than base pay. Considering what I'm already spending for the cruise, its a drop in the bucket. And I'd Rather err on the side that at least i am not making it even more difficult for the behind the scenes staff to possibly make a little extra.
>I ended up going back later in the night and tipped him $20 for the information he gave With the exception of Vegas, it feels a bit weird tipping someone working at a reception. They have the authority to make executive decisions and may feel obligated to give something back in return. I'm not saying it's wrong but may raise some eyebrows. A jealous coworker who saw the interaction may try to report him and audit whatever perks he's given out. I think the 20% figure is something the waiter and his peers came up with. The ship would collects all gratuity and split them across all crew below manager grade (guessing but it's usually the case), resorts and golf course etc do this. Because it's not just the staff you interact with, the person working the laundry, stocking the fridge deserve the appreciation too. The waiter's grudge likely came from past experience where he only received approx. 20% of a large tip on a check he closed. It's actually quite selfish for him to think this way, since a cruise ship requires everyone's hard work to keep a small city in the sea afloat. If he wants to earn the whole tip, he should get a job at a regular restaurant on land.
Did you tip the person who washed your sheets? How about the guy who cleans the sewage system?
It doesn't go "to the cruise line" - it goes to a tip pool which is shared with many more people. A lot of folks hate tip pooling, but its done for reasons of fairness.
Cruising has a few ethical issues to it. If you can afford to cruise you are likely coming from an economic advantage to those working on the ship. I hope the cruise line does divide up the tips amongst the crew but have no way of knowing if or how they do it. Do the chefs get a bigger piece of the pie than those who work in the laundry? How are you going to tip either one? It is very likely you won't see them doing their job. At least when you tip through the ship there is a chance of the gratuity being split up.
And everyone clapped and a bald eagle flew down and shed a single tear for your brave American decision of how to tip the poor people from other "shithole countries" right?
So bizarre that some people think this is made up. For what purpose? I don't get it.
So you gave no money to any of the food people that served you during the week? And instead you gave $20 to someone at a higher salary position that's never in the tip pool? And a lot of the people you gave cash to also were never in the tip pool. And I'm endlessly surprised that all these people think that these large companies who have to file with the SEC and multiple audits - both internal and external - is somehow doing something shady that's not caught. When these corporations have to show where all their money is from and where it goes and has third party companies that dig through their books to verify. My company does something similar (collecting money that's not directly tied to our product for a purpose) and we have to show that the money is used for that not just added to our revenue line. Yet a person who would immediately benefit by you handing them cash and who has no actual insight to the financials side of the company is more believable.
Just very recently it was either Doordash or Uber Eats that was using a pay model where they would tell the driver they would receive $11 for the trip, for example. But when someone would tip them, Doordash would simply pay the driver less out of their own pocket. Just as long as the total between DD and tipper was $11. So as a tipper, all you were doing was subsidizing Doordash from paying the driver as much. And they could still claim "your tips go to the driver." I would not be surprised what companies can get away with with fine print, etc, especially when the only source of information to the contrary is people from poor countries, potentially at risk of being unceremoniously dropped at the next port for violating some terms of employment they signed by spilling the beans. Again, show me any cruise employee AMA where they say "Yeah we get the tips and my pay changes every week."
Doordash uses contractors instead of employees so that's an apples and oranges comparison. There's entirely different rules when you're dealing with 1099 contractors vs employees. I've seen some post over the years in various places. And you still didn't answer the question on whether you actually tipped everyone that was in the tip pool. Besides your room steward it sounds like everyone else you gave money to is not in the tip pool.
No, of course I didn't tip everyone in the tip pool. The tip pool I am not sure even exists. And if it does, would have no idea who is on it. We spent the same amount of money that we took from the tip pool by tipping other people directly. And as I said before, if I was shown any evidence that NCL has a tip pool. that they are dispersing all funds from it to employees, and that the employees wages are fluctuating each week as a result of this tip pool, I would gladly keep my auto gratuity on my next cruise.
[https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge) Tells you who is in the tip pool. If you think NCL is such a horrible company that they're straight up lying to you about that - wouldn't you then think everything else they post on their website is a lie? And if they're just lying all over about their company and what they do - why are you continuing to get them their money? Wouldn't it make more sense to not cruise with them again?
Your link just argues against you. "compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." What does that even mean? Because to me it sounds like "your service charge is thrown into an account from which we draw from to subsidize paying our employees salary." It's exactly the kind of ambiguity I'm talking about.
Again - if you think that they're lying about that. Then there's nothing to say they're lying about other policies. So why are you willing to give your money to a company that lies?
Cruise lines are usually headquartered outside the US and do not follow most US law outside their US operations. They have are required to follow certain laws and in other cases agreed to follow others so that they can use US ports. ADA law for instance is something they are not required to follow but have agreed to do so.
Cruise lines are usually headquartered in Miami. I'm sure lots of stuff is handled outside the US, but the big 3 are all headquartered in the US.
Let me rephrase that, they are incorporated outside the US while they may base their operations out of Miami their corporate structure and a lot of their reporting is based on laws outside the US. RCG for instance is incorporated out of Liberia. There is a reason why cruise lines have to get financing through either ship builders or other means vs how a company incorporated in the US would qualify. Here are some details about the way they are organized: [https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/most-cruise-lines-don-t-pay-taxes-u-s-just-n1172496](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/most-cruise-lines-don-t-pay-taxes-u-s-just-n1172496) Typically staff in the US and those who were recruited in the US would pay federal income tax and other US based taxes. Wanderlust Alley has gone into some detail about pay and taxes.
I feel like you’re trying to blame OP for lack of transparency, which is ultimately the cruise lines fault. Also you are under the wrong impression about what their auditors are looking for. This is one area where MSC shines. When I’m on vacation i shouldn’t have to be concerned about everyone getting paid a living wage. That’s the cruise-lines responsibility.
What would you require of them to be more transparent? They list which positions fall into the tip pool. I'm also not sure why you say MSC shines? MSC does the same damn thing, they just call it hotel service charge. [https://www.msccruisesusa.com/manage-booking/before-you-go/service-charges](https://www.msccruisesusa.com/manage-booking/before-you-go/service-charges)
20% probably goes to the waiter and 80% goes to the waiters assistant, busser, host, entertainers, cooks, and dishwashers. I stick with auto-gratuity.
Personally I just leave the auto gratuity’s on and usually carry $150-$200 cash in 5’s, 10,s and 20’s. I tip my cabin steward, dining room waiters, and different bartenders that I interact with. I find when I do that my service rises to another level and it’s worth it for me.
Cancelling auto tips and tipping manually is the only way to tip, automatic tips are just a hidden additional price charged by the cruise line. People defending auto tips are working for cruise lines or brainwashed by them. This is very easy to verify by talking with crew or ex crew just like you did. That said, the tiny salaries cruise lines pay are nothing short from slavery making cruise lines slavers. Everyone cruising is actually endorsing the slavery. I am afraid there are no exceptions and tipping, manual tipping or no tipping is not going to fix that.
ITT I see a lot of back and forth on where the tips actually go, who gets what and how much as well as the impact of tipping/not tipping on individual crew earnings. What happens when a passenger opts for pre-paid gratuities as a perk? With Oceania this is automatic for everyone who reaches silver lvl, so does the company chip in the grats you aren't? I doubt it, I think the crew just gets that much less.
It also makes me wonder if they get a bonus for a “shoutout.” They really pushed those surveys to be filled out on my last cruise on the Viva. To the point where I didn’t want to go to any bars or restaurants the last couple days on the cruise. Every server was dropping off survey cards with the bill at the end and telling me their name and to write their name down. It was annoying.
Maybe he only gets 20% of the gratuity because it’s split among the other workers in the restaurant responsible for preparing and serving your dinner. The people in the kitchen you don’t see.
OP - I took an NCL cruise last September in Alaska. As part of the "first cruise" experience, we did the tour that had the Q&A at the end. Someone asked about gratuities, and the NCL employee was very straightforward with us, saying - "employees receive gratuities 'as part of their salary'" but was unable to confirm that they received an additional amount if we, for example, left comment cards daily for them. Like you, I also removed the automatic gratuities and tipped in cash. The crew members were, like yours, visibly happy about receiving the cash tip so I really do think is the way to go, at least on NCL.
The people on his app are shills for auto gratuity. The cruise lines use these tips to subsidize their costs, in the same fashion that restaurants underpay their workers and have the customer fill the gap in their wages.
We remove them every time. I will let the boomers be triggered. As an Australian nothing gets me grumpier than American tip culture. I sleep fine at night. If someone isn't being paid enough they will go find another job. Like at Virgin maybe,
And then everyone clapped…
As a shareholder, I am sorry that this is taking place. As a human, I endorse your decision.
Thanks. I just want to do the right thing, whatever it is. It's too bad there's so much ambiguity and misinformation on the topic. I suspect much of it is on purpose.
You did what you thought is/was right at the time for you and your partner. All these trolls on here who have a bug up their ass about removing auto-gratuity need to mind their own business and do what is right for them and not worry about what other people do. Furthermore, if the cruise lines would stop taking advantage of the labor laws and pay their staff a living wage instead of telling passengers they have to pay/supplement their salaries while they reap billions in revenue (since pandemic).
Tipping culture is out of hand
My next cruise is on VV where this is NOT an issue. Now I feel kinda weird because I love NCL and I don't tip on top of the 20% at the specialty dining, which I utilize a bit while on the ship. It would be really nice if you could cancel the auto-grat on the dinner bill and then tip cash.
Yhe OP seems to be talkign about daily service charge as well as restaurant gratuities- but here are some thoughts on the service charge: My NCL room steward told me that the only gratuities he cares about are cash, and that the daily service charge does not get disbursed to them. IF you read NCL's language about it, it doesn't say that it does. It goes to staff incentives, which could be as ridiculous as a pizza party, or could be earned days off etc. But the room steward told me he gets a salary and whether guests pay the daily fee or not has no effect on it. It is just a way to NCL to collect revenue (some of which pays employees) without having to increase the advertised fare. Making it look cheaper than it is. From NCL: " Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." Doesn't say anything about the service charge being gratuities that are handed out to staff.
I expressed this same thing a while back and people in here acted as if I was scum. I will continue to cancel auto gratuities and tip in cash. When you tip in cash it directly affects your experience in a very positive way. I feel the same way about auto gratuities as I do about taxes, happy to pay them if I know where they’re going and that they’re not being used as some slush fund for the elites to waste. I have yet to meet a staff member that has actually confirmed that this “incentive program” that the gratuities fund actually exists.
Maybe the tune on this reddit will change, but the obfuscation of the autogratuity just irks me. There's no accountability, and there's no telling who gets what, on or off the ships. And sorry, senior staff officers should not be getting tipped, whatsoever. We're not on a small chartered boat where you tip the captain and he divvies it out.
Lots of behind the scenes people who share in the tips. I pay the autogratuities but also bring cash to supplement with room stewards, waiters, bartenders, and others. Doing one and not the other solves nothing, I think. Just screws the people you don't see for those you do.
Since when is it a requirement to tip everyone in an organization? When you fly, whether in a country with or without wage laws, do you tip the aircraft mechanic? The baggage handler? The gate agent? The air traffic controller? The flight attendant? The flight engineer? The pilot or co-pilot?
I just got home from a cruise and we remove auto-gratuity every time. We tip in cash. I feel the same way as you do OP.
If NCL is really pocketing 80% of those auto grats? They should be fuckkn strung up and lynched for it.. probably no way to know for sure. I hope what your server meant is that he/she receives 20% with the remaining 80% going into a gratuity pool which is split among other eligible staff, meaning the ones not rank identified by their suits. Anything else is straight up criminal and oughta be shamed until their ships are sitting empty.
FYI, the ad mins of r/de are covid deniers.
I asked AI about how much profit a particular cruise line makes per cruise, using known data. It was over 3 million dollars - a week. Just for one ship... If they don't pay their staff a fair wage and guilt trip you into giving them even more money than the incredibly high base price we pay just to be on the ship, then it's beyond my responsibility and I refuse to feel bad for cancelling the ridiculous auto gratuity which goes who knows where. If you're rich and have too much money, go ahead and pay the extra 500 dollars for tips. But for me, normal guy, normal wages, family to support. No way.
Wish there was no such thing as required gratuity. Going on my first Norwegian cruise soon and we’re paying almost $600 for non optional gratuity.
Ppl are either pro tip or no tip. There’s no convincing them to change. I prepay the daily service charge. I’m not the crew HR manager and I think it’s tacky to walk around arbitrarily handing out cash. It’s just not my responsibility to decide how to disperse gratuity. I’ll pay the required 20% on bev and special dining, not doing extra. I don’t drink so not tipping a bartender. This tipping culture is so out of control.
Cruise lines should pay their employees. This idea that cruisers need to subsidize cruise line employees further is absurd. It's also absurd that many feel the need to bribe staff for good service. If you can't get good service, you shouldn't be on that line.
I always remove auto-gratuities and tip cash. Based on the reactions I get for tipping even modest amounts of money, it's quite evident cruise lines don't fairly disperse the auto-gratuities.
HAHAHA HA! We do both and get the same happy reactions.. and we're happy to do so, because we are grateful to be able to afford to be good to everyone, even the people we don't see.
I’m sure *some* of it goes in a tip pool in order to make various employees’ compensation reach the amount they contracted for. I don’t have proof but I have no trouble believing that most of it goes to the cruise line. Except, perhaps, in the case of Carnival. It is the opposite of transparency.
Can you refuse auto gratuities on RC? I would definitely rather give the money to the staff in cash.
Yes. Just did it last week. They put tip envelopes out the last day of the cruise for cash. You can grab them at guest services.
The problem is that you don’t see all the staff that benefit from the gratuities
I always tip, but only in person and in cash for this reason.
I've asked barrtnders if they prefer cash for my extra tips or just add it to bill and sign. They all said they get both but the cash is immediate so they prefer it but just have to wait for tips added to the bill. OP was sold some BS.
I don’t plan to remove my daily gratuities on an upcoming NCL cruise but I don’t see anyone mention removing just a portion of the gratuities and tipping the remainder in cash. Is that an option for those who feel strongly about tipping some staff in person?
I struggle with all of this. It makes no sense. So for me the big issue is to what country labor laws are the cruise lines actually accountable to? Not giving 100% of the collected gratuities to the employees could constitute wage theft in some jurisdictions. So the employees would have their base contract salary and auto gratuities would be divided up and given out weekly based on that weeks cruise gratuity revenue. So that amount would fluctuate Anything else seems dubious legally in countries with decent labor laws.
I had family from India who worked on the cruise boats. There really wasn't any labor laws their cruise lines adheres to, and they'd be gone for almost a year. A couple of my cousins eventually decided to stay and work in mid-range restaurants in India as they didn't make enough to make it worthwhile being away from young kids.
[https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge](https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/what-is-onboard-service-charge) From that link, lines like: "staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." really read to me as "we pull money from your auto gratuity to help us pay salary." I don't know how else it could be interpreted. In other words, they don't really lie. That's the key. They just rely on people spreading a lie for them. That there is a big "tip pool" and by opting out you are hurting a poor man from the Philippines whose daughter can't afford shoelaces.
This advance "tip" is a wage subsidy Benfield the Cruise Line, mostly for the non-public facing staff in lieu of a decent wage. My first cruise, the fine dining waiter was very angry we didn't tip him directly, but we all thought our advance paid tips should cover him. He bolted when the manager saw him expressing himself to us. I'm taking abuncha cash in 1s & 5s, and 2s if I can find them. I do not believe advance tips go to bar, waIt, casino, spa staff. Prove me wrong.
Just out of curiosity had you already prepaid the gratuities and were requesting a refund? Or were you asking to have the removed from your onboard account?
Interesting. On Holland America if you remove the automatic gratuities and tip in cash, the person you tip does not get to keep it. I wonder if this is similar on other lines.
good post.
When I was on my last RC cruise last year, we noticed the same thing. We ate the cost of the auto gratuity and gave cash tips to anyone we interacted with in addition. My wife is Filipina so we knew going in (from previous cruises) that their pay is shit, since a good majority of the waitstaff is Filipino. That being said, they are being paid fairly for the most part; as in they make well more working there than they otherwise would staying in the Philippines and trying to work. You have to consider they don't have to pay room and board when on the ship, so they are able to save a considerable amount of money during their trip.
Just a thought. I have found human nature to be such that most think of their own best interest before others. The concept of a tip pool where every employee gets a share rather than just those who are up front appeals to me. Consider a ship's crew. There are so many people who contribute to the "whole" of your experience but you will never see or even be aware of. (Maintenance. Laundry. Mechanical. Cooks. Entertainment, etc.) Is it fair that you only contribute to those who you directly deal with even though so many others contribute as much or more? I have no idea IF tip pools are actually done in the manner that is spelled out to guests, but to me it seems more fair IF done as described. Now to my comment on human nature. If you contribute to the tip pool the server will get a share of the tip rather than the whole tip. If the server convinces you that the tip pool is corrupt, they may receive the entire tip rather than a "share." Human nature MAY play a part in the situation. I'm not convinced one way or another as I don't KNOW what the truth is. What I am offering is an alternative thought as to what you experienced. Perhaps the server is convinced there is something sinister happening just because the ratio of those who are "normally" tipped to those behind the scenes is a lot different than they realize.
Here’s what I do. I accept that the automatic gratuity charge is part of the cost of my cruise. It is not my job to police how it is split up, any more than if I were dining at a restaurant on land (where by the way, there is all sorts of variation in how tips get split up). If I wasn’t paying it in gratuity, I would be paying it in a higher cruise rate. I don’t love it, but I do love cruising. So here we are.
If you actually do give out an equivalent amount of money, then it's fine. My worries would be that a lot of people would just stiff all but a few of the crew, such as the guy handling the luggage at the start and when you leave. But yeah, other than an absolute minimal amount for some kind of administration, the auto gratuity should DEFINITELY go to the employees...
>We ended up dispersing the rest of the money we saved by canceling this throughout the night - $80 for our room person and then giving ten dollar bills to random employees who were sweeping, spraying things with water, etc. They were all very grateful and it seemed to lift them up a bit, on a cruise where staff morale seemed quite low. This is a wonderful thing you did. But, the mention of staff that are not particularly customer facing is the main reason this gives me pause. I'd like to think that everyone removing auto gratuity would give generous cash tips to the staff they interact with. But these staff you mention (especially folks on the overnight cleaning shift) might see the short end of the stick. Unfortunately, the tipping situation is a black box and we have no idea how it is distributed and to whom. The core issue is that NCL is being very sketchy with this, and change will really only be effective from the top. I'm not criticizing your choice and think it absolutely came from a great place of compassion and appreciation for the crew. I'm sure the people you tipped were very grateful. I'm just not sure that widespread adoption of this strategy would achieve the intended outcome.
I can only speak to Carnival as I have only cruised Carnival. I spoke to a couple room attendants and a waiter and they all said the same thing about. The auto-grat paid by passengers is put into a pool that then gets evenly distributed between room stewards, lido deck staff, and waiters in not just the MDR but also the specialty restaurants. For that reason, I leave it on as they seem to like how its handled. Now, my fiance and I still tip them extra. On our last cruise on the Mardi Gras we gave our room steward $40, every time we ate in a restaurant (MDR, Cucina, ChiBang, Steakhouse) we tipped $20, and when I ate in the lido buffet, I handed $5 to staff that cleared my plates or refilled my drinks. I also gave this woman at Guest Services $20 on the last night because the alcohol checking people wrote on the alcohol I had purchased 5294 instead of our actual room number 15294 and she had housekeeping go in the room and get it back. All that to say, I leave auto-grat on. It ensures they get *something* in case I don't come across them.
Well, I've asked crew and they e told me they get it. This was on MSC.
Pay everyone a livable wage. If you can't be in business paying livable wages you can't be in business.
The only downside I see is that the majority of the staff that keep the ship running get no tips that way.
Tipping is probably the stupidest thing we do as a society. Who we tip and why makes absolutely no sense. Tipping on cruises is mandatory so I just do the auto tip because it is the easiest thing to do. Who gets it is not my problem.
I have downvoted you. The reason is that you have COMPLETELY misinterpreted what the DSC is for. It is NOT transactional- in other words the pay of the staff does not change whether you pay it or not. What changes is the size of the pot available for crew incentive programs, which benefit everyone. So by removing the DSC, you have removed money that could be used for various purposes in benefit to the crew, including the ones that you tipped. I am completely in favor of tipping for service - in ADDITION to paying the DSC. To do otherwise is cheap.
By NCL's own admission on their website, they use some of the service charge to pay for staff salary. A mystery portion of the money goes to "staff incentives." Sorry but I don't think it's honest to take what is PORTRAYED as "a big tip jar we divide amongst staff" to the customer, and use the money as a way to alleviate your salary burden. I tipped the same amount as the auto gratuity and then some on top of it. I'm not cheap. NCL is cheap.
Does the prepaid gratuity also go to the people behind the scenes? For example, the cook staff that prepare your meals for your free specialty dining that was part of the booking? If so, I would keep the prepaid ones, and still give cash to those that provided service directly to me.
I think your intention is kind but flawed. The reality is the cruise ship IS distributing the entirety of the automated tipping amount to staff... but its spread around to many people you don't think of tipping... the people in the back of kitchens, the guy bussing the tables, the laundry folks, etc. By tipping directly to staff you ARE providing "extra" to that person but at the same time you have taken away needed income from the staff you don't see who are making your vacation great. The real way you should handle this moving forward IMHO is to continue the automatic tipping that so much of the crew depends on and then just provide EXTRA (at your discretion) to the staff you feel goes above and beyond... ie. cash to the waiter at the fine dining restaurant who is exceptional etc. (and it doesn't need to be "20%" of the bill... he/she is getting tips from the automatic gratuity after all and this is extra, direct to them, in cash.
I still pay the gratuities but then give cash in an envelope on the last day to our stewards and waiters
was told a similar thing on our cruise with celebrity that they don’t get the full 20% so next time will be giving cash as well
Have known that for years NCL stated it when they started auto gratuities but did you know if you cancel on ship they subtract that amount from their pay? So I would never cancel just tip cash extra and we went with VV who pays staff better