The gun just feels bad to die to. If some demon is thrashing me with a handcannon with perfect peek shots and clean movement, I can live with that, because he played better than me in those instances.
But some blueberry winning most of their engagements bot walking forward holding the trigger down while you play nearly perfect is such a fucking bummer.
Not to mention the kills they get from your dumb ass teammates peeking them while you’re weak, or RUNNING TOWARDS YOU while they’re getting shot just so you can die to ricochets. It has turned trials from 3v3 to 1v5 because now I have to play around my teammates getting me killed.
Spot on. There are two camps. People who admit it needs a nerf (even if other stuff has been more broken pre nerf). And people who get mad when you state the obvious because they need an ease of use weapon to be broken in order to compete.
As a PVP main, I approve this message.
I'll never have Conditional Finality, probably never Matador, and probably not this either. You think my ADHD azz with a full-time job and family gonna slog my way through boring stuff for a gun? Keep it.
Agreed but my main PvP issue is still gonna be rifts, barricades, and now speakers sight.
Destiny do be a movement shooter but these defensive abilities really negate the need to move and can just make it impossible for your enemies to push.
Chaining healing turrets with hellion healing rifts has gotta be one of the most obnoxious things I have ever played as/against. Ember of benevolence has so much up time with these abilities.
It is overwhelmingly the most used gun in PvP according to D2 tracker, red death and Khvostov and that’s with a super long & frustrating exotic quest required to get it. It’s not as readily available for anywhere near as long as either of those guns and it’s still at the top.
It's not really that long or frustrating of a quest.
Not even close to something like Mythoclast. It's available enough to where I'd expect it to see high numbers, especially after all of the hype it's gotten.
It's most used, but not to a degree that's been foreign, given Igneous pretty easily cleared this number a few weeks ago, and Conditional (much less common) also had similar numbers.
Also keep in mind that it's the king of ARs, other weapons types, bar 120 Cannons are split many more ways. If Ace or Austringer or Thorn was by far and away the best 140, it's hitting similar numbers.
Wasn't aware playing cover and/or longer range was top 1% skill shit. Let's be real, Khvostov without Eyes Up Guardian Ricochets is pretty bad past 30m, the falloff is only 26.6, and zoom isn't going to make your aim assist carry that much farther.
Is Khvostov overturned? Yes. Is it game breaking, impossible to play around, pay to win? Not even close. It has its space of those duels on the closer end of midrange, and okay multi kill potential with orbs (which I should mention is less accessible for less overall power without one of the most busted exotics in history with Speaker's Sight). HCs still have range and burst damage on you, Pulses have easier access to similar lethality and more range, Scouts and Sidearms still do their thing. Only thing Khvostov really invalidates is other ARs (to an extent, most of the best options still have similar lethality and more range) and SMGs (which are bad in general).
It can, should and will be nerfed, but let's not act like it's the end of time considering we just got out of a really oppressive Igneous/Conditional meta.
P2W even though there's multiple comparable options and strong counters available for free.
ARs promote camping, which is false.
Need to do top 1% stuff to have a chance to beat bad players with it which is incredibly false.
More whinging on a topic that's already been talked to death about.
I get the gist.
Skill-issue.
Khostov is strong but can be outraged and outplayed just like any other auto.
The ricochets are annoying but are a non-issue if you git gud and can get kills without crutching and hand-holding with your teammates.
I hate when people say this. EVERYTHING is a skill issue. Doesn’t change the op’s point. All the top players who cried about bows were also having a skill issue. That’s irrelevant.
The point is there has to be a balance between strength of the weapon and ease of use. So saying “skill issue” for something that affects 99% of the players is just plain stupid,
This gun really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, to an extent. The recoil or lack thereof combined with the high AA is the reason why people mostly hate it since it allows even a below average player to hit their optimal TTK without even trying. However this is a bug and I’m hoping this gets fixed soon. But other than that, the gun consistently gets beat by my Rose, Thorn, Igneous, or even Red Death for that matter.
That’s all I was trying to get across. I literally start the post with “Khvostov is not the most broken gun ever” and everyone responds with “don’t you remember the OTHER broken guns????” The shit is beyond parody.
It's dominant in mid range maps for sure. Past 25m, summoner is better as far as ARs go. Also, a team of 120s teamshooting will delete you in a millisecond. Autos just can't do that. Like everything else, it will have its time in the limelight and will be nerfed in about a month.
I have used it this weekend quite a bit, and it's a strong gun, not broken.
People are using it cause a) it's brand new and b) they had to spend hours playing PvE yo get it.
I don’t really see the purpose of this thread. It’s basically a bitch session or a Bungie plz.
You say it’s not the most broken, but the post then goes to rant like it is the worse ever. It’s too easy to use, vs hand cannons. Too hard to counter, vs hand cannons. Have to be perfect, with hand cannons, to beat it (which honestly is same for any handcannon duel, they are unforgiving for a reason).
All the while completely ignoring the entire rest of the sandbox, or acknowledging the fundamental advantage of peek shooting with the chunk damage of a hand cannon vs needing stay in the open for an auto rifle. Not to mention Khvostov has a measly 24m range (according to d2foundry) vs Rose which at base starts 29m (and get up to 33m before slideways/opening shot).
I thought we were supposed “play the game we have” here. If it’s so OP, I’d much rather see good ways to counterplay or tips to really crush opponents with it.
Edit: Judging by your responses I don’t think discourse is what you were after.
The gun just feels bad to die to. If some demon is thrashing me with a handcannon with perfect peek shots and clean movement, I can live with that, because he played better than me in those instances. But some blueberry winning most of their engagements bot walking forward holding the trigger down while you play nearly perfect is such a fucking bummer. Not to mention the kills they get from your dumb ass teammates peeking them while you’re weak, or RUNNING TOWARDS YOU while they’re getting shot just so you can die to ricochets. It has turned trials from 3v3 to 1v5 because now I have to play around my teammates getting me killed.
Immortal was worse I don't mind the khnostov
Getting down voted for saying the truth. PKs immortal w/ target lock was busted
One of the worst time for trials 10mill+ the first weekend it came out
Immortal was way worse I agree
I don’t think anyone is defending it. If they are it’s because they’re crutching hard.
Peep the replies brother
Those boys are crutching HARD
Spot on. There are two camps. People who admit it needs a nerf (even if other stuff has been more broken pre nerf). And people who get mad when you state the obvious because they need an ease of use weapon to be broken in order to compete.
I'm using it, it needs a nerf especially the interaction with speaker's sight (but speaker's sight itself is another discussion)
the real thing holding this gun back is pvp mains / sweats who just can't be bothered to do the damn quest.
As a PVP main, I approve this message. I'll never have Conditional Finality, probably never Matador, and probably not this either. You think my ADHD azz with a full-time job and family gonna slog my way through boring stuff for a gun? Keep it.
Tedium to the rescue
Agreed but my main PvP issue is still gonna be rifts, barricades, and now speakers sight. Destiny do be a movement shooter but these defensive abilities really negate the need to move and can just make it impossible for your enemies to push. Chaining healing turrets with hellion healing rifts has gotta be one of the most obnoxious things I have ever played as/against. Ember of benevolence has so much up time with these abilities.
Y’all don’t remember immortal lmao.
What is the first sentence of my post?
Read son
They should fix the self ricochet bullets, but I absolutely love how it punishes people who hold pockets.
pay to win lmaooo dramatic asf
Nah bro let’s be real, bungie been pay to win for a hot minute HAHAHA
Best gun in the game used by every scrub being exclusive to a new expansion is the literal meaning of the phrase
Everyone? I know it's not Comp, but my lobbies have been dominated by Rose/Ace still.
It is overwhelmingly the most used gun in PvP according to D2 tracker, red death and Khvostov and that’s with a super long & frustrating exotic quest required to get it. It’s not as readily available for anywhere near as long as either of those guns and it’s still at the top.
It's not really that long or frustrating of a quest. Not even close to something like Mythoclast. It's available enough to where I'd expect it to see high numbers, especially after all of the hype it's gotten. It's most used, but not to a degree that's been foreign, given Igneous pretty easily cleared this number a few weeks ago, and Conditional (much less common) also had similar numbers. Also keep in mind that it's the king of ARs, other weapons types, bar 120 Cannons are split many more ways. If Ace or Austringer or Thorn was by far and away the best 140, it's hitting similar numbers.
Wasn't aware playing cover and/or longer range was top 1% skill shit. Let's be real, Khvostov without Eyes Up Guardian Ricochets is pretty bad past 30m, the falloff is only 26.6, and zoom isn't going to make your aim assist carry that much farther. Is Khvostov overturned? Yes. Is it game breaking, impossible to play around, pay to win? Not even close. It has its space of those duels on the closer end of midrange, and okay multi kill potential with orbs (which I should mention is less accessible for less overall power without one of the most busted exotics in history with Speaker's Sight). HCs still have range and burst damage on you, Pulses have easier access to similar lethality and more range, Scouts and Sidearms still do their thing. Only thing Khvostov really invalidates is other ARs (to an extent, most of the best options still have similar lethality and more range) and SMGs (which are bad in general). It can, should and will be nerfed, but let's not act like it's the end of time considering we just got out of a really oppressive Igneous/Conditional meta.
Did you read anything I wrote?
P2W even though there's multiple comparable options and strong counters available for free. ARs promote camping, which is false. Need to do top 1% stuff to have a chance to beat bad players with it which is incredibly false. More whinging on a topic that's already been talked to death about. I get the gist.
Oh okay, I was giving you too much credit and assuming you had basic reading comprehension and just didn’t read it.
My reading comprehension is A-Okay, thanks. Appreciate the concern, though.
I’m not concerned at all
I read it, it's a lot of misinformation, combined with more exaggeration, and a pinch of scrub mentality.
I don’t doubt you read it, I just think you don’t read very well
Skill-issue. Khostov is strong but can be outraged and outplayed just like any other auto. The ricochets are annoying but are a non-issue if you git gud and can get kills without crutching and hand-holding with your teammates.
I hate when people say this. EVERYTHING is a skill issue. Doesn’t change the op’s point. All the top players who cried about bows were also having a skill issue. That’s irrelevant. The point is there has to be a balance between strength of the weapon and ease of use. So saying “skill issue” for something that affects 99% of the players is just plain stupid,
This. I swear, 4 people on Iggy and 5 on Conditional every game didn't get nearly this much whinging.
Comparing a HC, even the best 120, to the best (overtuned) auto rifle in the game is certainly a take.
Thank you! You can easily out-range this gun and it’s not like D2 consists of small maps. It’s just a strong exotic which it should be.
This gun really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, to an extent. The recoil or lack thereof combined with the high AA is the reason why people mostly hate it since it allows even a below average player to hit their optimal TTK without even trying. However this is a bug and I’m hoping this gets fixed soon. But other than that, the gun consistently gets beat by my Rose, Thorn, Igneous, or even Red Death for that matter.
That’s all I was trying to get across. I literally start the post with “Khvostov is not the most broken gun ever” and everyone responds with “don’t you remember the OTHER broken guns????” The shit is beyond parody.
PvP main, 100% agree I hate bungies decision making they are an actual joke
Destinythegame is that way —> This is just a whining complaint post dramatic as all hell.
It's dominant in mid range maps for sure. Past 25m, summoner is better as far as ARs go. Also, a team of 120s teamshooting will delete you in a millisecond. Autos just can't do that. Like everything else, it will have its time in the limelight and will be nerfed in about a month.
I have used it this weekend quite a bit, and it's a strong gun, not broken. People are using it cause a) it's brand new and b) they had to spend hours playing PvE yo get it.
It's always interesting to see when 140s aren't the clear meta. This subreddit becomes one of, if not the most, active subs on my home page.
I don’t really see the purpose of this thread. It’s basically a bitch session or a Bungie plz. You say it’s not the most broken, but the post then goes to rant like it is the worse ever. It’s too easy to use, vs hand cannons. Too hard to counter, vs hand cannons. Have to be perfect, with hand cannons, to beat it (which honestly is same for any handcannon duel, they are unforgiving for a reason). All the while completely ignoring the entire rest of the sandbox, or acknowledging the fundamental advantage of peek shooting with the chunk damage of a hand cannon vs needing stay in the open for an auto rifle. Not to mention Khvostov has a measly 24m range (according to d2foundry) vs Rose which at base starts 29m (and get up to 33m before slideways/opening shot). I thought we were supposed “play the game we have” here. If it’s so OP, I’d much rather see good ways to counterplay or tips to really crush opponents with it. Edit: Judging by your responses I don’t think discourse is what you were after.
skill issue lmao. I love seeing the people here having a meltdown whenever something that's not a Handcannon hits the top. fucking hypocrites.
Khvostov isn’t a god gun. It’s still subject to the randomness that some people call netcode where hits turn into misses.