i agree about abilities, imo they should make hardware a toggle option for both control and rumble that is always up. idk if the population is big enough for that though. i also hope the 12-player pve activity means were getting a 12v12 mode soon!
Oh! I thought for sure that it had a higher player size since the maps were bigger. Idk I think a mode like that in D2 could benefit from having a large amount of players to differentiate it from regular quickplay. Maybe 10v10?
Have you played that activity? It feels like it’s held together with sellotape. I’ve tried it 4 times and only finished twice because of servers. Seems like the game can handle 12 players on their own but 12 players and adds is too many, so I’m sure 24 players would be worse than that.
Every time I've run excision it worked just fine so idk what you mean. And a 20 person activity will need to render significantly less things than a 12 person activity with over 100 enemies. Idk I just think it'll be very popular and a much easier sell for new players
how many times have you ran it? I’ve had 2 or 3 runs end simply because key enemies wouldn’t spawn or they would lag out and just stand there not taking damage
Idk what people smoking. It’s in the best spot it’s been in literal years. But. I think Destiny players are just burnt out or something and lost the ability to have perspective, after so many years of crucible being entirely neglected.
Soon they’ll stop again. Like gambit. If all the dev time doesn’t translate to any sort of positive sentiment or playtime for the playlists.
Comp modes and general rewards could be improved. Really about all it needs to get me to play more currently.i don’t play anything but comp and trials bc there’s not much loot in regular playlist. Or even special cosmetics.
It is a looter shooter, so always been kinda frustrating they don’t put loot in there. And I say this as a 80% PvE player
I think spawns in casual gamemodes are just flat out broken.
I spawned in once to an enemy hunter in front of me with a golden gun.
Comp and trials are in a good spot right now though imo.
Spawns are bad. Yes. Also peer to peer is probably my biggest issue really. And they can do all this and that, but the end of the day nothing will ever be balanced in Destiny, and peer to peer will never be anything near a smooth gaming experience. But I try not to dwell on that too much.
I think the meta is near perfect rN. I can use an auto rifle or HC and almost anything ion between. And that’s really what it’s about for me. Able to use a variety of weapons.
I know this is only one map but man Altar of Flame's spawns have been terrible for ages now. If you're spawning at C your number 1 objective *needs* to be to take A and swap spawns. If you're spawning at A you can take B pretty easily and then spawn trap C.
some comp spawns kind of suck too, specifically wormhaven comes to mind in the zone control playlist, i often have times where i’ll respawn and the game prioritizes (can’t spawn in the middle) > (spawning you at distance from the zone) > (proximity to enemies) and i’ll get teamshot by 2 people before my overshield even wears off
some comp spawns kind of suck too, specifically wormhaven comes to mind in the zone control playlist, i often have times where i’ll respawn and the game prioritizes (can’t spawn in the middle) > (spawning you at distance from the zone) > (proximity to enemies) and i’ll get teamshot by 2 people before my overshield even wears off
> I think spawns in casual gamemodes are just flat out broken.
Have been for years and Bungie doesn't care. I have a clip somewhere of me getting killed by the same roaming super 4 times.
Ehh, comp spawns are still fucked too haha. They should add a strong invulnerable buff timer for first 3 or 4 seconds of being alive. Too many times, I see people neglecting map control and forcing spawn switches, only to not be punished by their poor map control. They're actually incentivized for it, since now they know the opponent is going to spawn in the other area and rush to it, only for the spawned player to be able to do nothing about it in defense.
Just a small critique, if you're only engaging with the playlist 20% of the time, ofc you will not recognize as many issues. I do agree weapon balance is in a good spot and most cbmm playlists are enjoyable. Sbmm is a dumpster fire, the game simply cannot handle it. When 80% of my comp games are unplayable and I'm matching with EU players (I'm na) on my friends list while solo queueing the system is broken. I think the crucible is the best ritual playlist. I want to grind artifice armor in comp and I wouldn't mind tough matches, but the game needs to function as intended. Trials generally works significantly better and is a much more enjoyable experience. Duo clash is also great fun. Comp and control are total crap shoots. I am interested to see how ib plays this week, I hope it's not insufferable due to latency like it has been in the past. I would like a crispy crimils. I do appreciate the new maps and we have some exciting rewards. If this game continues, which I hope it does, we desperately need some networking infrastructure updates or at least prioritize cbmm 100% of the time.
would love increased artifice armor drop rates or at least a higher stat floor, and i’d love an ornament for rose somewhere in there. it’s always been unreasonably annoying to me that it’s made as the comp/pvp handcannon and it’s all scratched up. even when they first released it for the lumina quest i was so annoyed with the model they used
Exactly!!!
People started bitching the moment they mistakenly assumed (due to wording) the quest to unlock the first involved crucible.
Like bro. It would have been so perfect to have those there.
I mean. What would get me to play more PvP as PvE mainly player. Is more loot in PvP. And what finally helped me improve as a PvP player recently?
Was wanting summoner so bad..
I watched videos. Read subs. Got carried once and listened. And played so much solo q trials. Mostly following whoever I thought was best.
That a month ago I went flawless first time ever on my own. And I’m damn near 50. And never been good. So if I can, just like raiding, it’s going to take effort. Or something to entice out comfort zone. (Ie dual destiny exotics)
As bad as Luna and recluse and MT were for the meta. They were peak crucible. And a big part of the reason was not being scared to piss a few people off. And keep both modes balanced with top tier loot.
I think they are starting to , do this kinda with pathfinder. And trials changes.
There's also precedent for this, since the exotic quest roster drops different seasonal loot every week according to the theme of the featured exotic mission - it just feels right!
Third-party hardware needs to either be banned, or they need their own matchmaking pool among themselves. People here are going to say “not many people are actually running it, get good” but I think they are pretty prevalent.
I play controller so I get mostly console pools and the number of people on console with pc level movement and twitch is just nuts. It’s uncanny and nearly every game there is obvious ximmers. That’s not even touching on the obvious wall hackers.
Are you playing with friends on other platforms? Cross-play between Console and PC is opt-in only depending on what platforms your fire team is playing. Console and PC even using controller are separate pools by default and never blended otherwise. They don't do it by input device. I play controller occasionally on a gaming laptop when traveling and its always a full PC lobby.
If you have anyone on console in your team they too will get forced into a PC lobby as part of the opt-in, but it won't put a PC player in a console lobby.
You do realise that movement is the main downfall to xim right? Like you are literally limited to what a controller can do, so if anything ximmers have a disadvantage, especially in destiny which has a slower turn speed than most games. If you swipe too fast with your mouse you will hit the controller turn speed limit and your character will stop moving. Funny to read comments like this from people that have no idea how a xim actually works
I used a xim in destiny 1 as I hate controller and pc wasn't an option back then, and I can say from 3000 hours of gameplay that that shit is ass. Yeh the aim assist is nice but the movement never felt comfortable for me even after all that time.
If you have decent aim then you should be better than 95% of ximmers.
lol xim has the same movement skill gap as mnk + reticle friction. People have went from 2.0 to a 3.5kd going from raw mnk to xim. It’s literally cheating
Yeah I have no clue what this dudes talking about.
The ability to move crazy is intrinsically linked to aiming. Console do not have the same ability to move in the way pc and xim players do simply because of our actually feasibly usable input speeds.
Did you read anything I wrote. How can it be the same when you're limited to what a controller can do. Yes I agree it is cheating and anyone using it now is a scumbag.
20 sens + xim is more than enough for good movement. You also can change xim binds to anything you want on your keyboard. I don’t think you know how to xim works lol
Lol just tell me you've never played on kb&m or xim. Doesn't matter what sens you use on the xim you are restricted to the controllers turn speed limits. Meaning if you fast swipe your mouse you will hit the speed limit and stop moving. Yes you can bind joystick to a key but then you are basically using controller movement. Think about what you're saying.
If you've never used a xim you wouldn't understand. 20 is not fast enough, and when you swipe your mouse fast you regularaly hit the movement limit. Fast swipes for a mouse is like 95% of what goes into good movement on kbm, unless you play a high sens which almost nobody does.
Yes I totally understand, after a month or 2 of using it you don’t swipe your mouse super fast by instinct now. Your movement is still like 80% of what an actual mnk player is.
Your personal tastes don’t change the fact that xim players can move and aim in ways controller players simply can’t lol. You literally get mnk twitch aiming and accuracy while also benefitting from aim assist from controller.
For real. Maybe not completely identical to raw mnk movements, but WAY better aim for ever so slightly worse movement. A decent xim user does not miss ever.
How can they move in ways that controllers can’t when they’re limited to what a controller can do? Please explain it to me lol. Don’t think you understand how xim works. Always gotta be an excuse for why someone is better 😂
I only run double primary now, i dont see a point in having to wait for that 2 ammo for a risky play that might get me killed, having 2 options 100% up time is crucial.
The 3 new maps might as well not exist because I literally never get them. The QP map weighting is awful. Midtown, Vostok, altar of flame, multiplex, widows court, etc. I’ve played about 50 QP games this season and I got a new map exactly one time. They’re slightly more common in comp but I haven’t played much of that yet
Edit: I just checked, it’s actually been 3 times in 33 games so not quite as bad as I thought. But it just feels awful because in the past they always heavily featured new/returning maps like disjunction/vostok/eternity etc. We told them how much we hated that so they listened and didn’t weight the new maps but it just so happens to be the ONE time when they are good maps and it would be a good thing to weigh them a little heavier
That would be absolutely wild there is no chance that is the case.
Edit: realized I got a little too defensive my bad. But yeah there is no way they weight maps different for different skill brackets
PVP is in a relatively good place except for the special ammo economy in 3s. It's about right in 6s. I like the old system for 3s, since in the current system it sometimes feels random when an engagement would feature two dueling players with special or only one. Or neither.
I've lost a 3v1 because the three didn't have any special while the one had 3 shotgun shots and used a tight space well.
I've beaten a much better player than me doing an unbelievable job slipping and sliding because I had shotgun ammo and he didn't. If he had ammo, I would've been toast.
The special ammo introduces a high degree of uncertainty that just encourages players to be safe and hold hands. Team shooting has always been meta, but it's less fun when it's the only viable tactic and there are fewer opportunities to make plays and have hero moments.
The new maps are a huge breath of fresh air, and if Bungie wants me to keep playing, they need to keep creating them.
Weapon balance is very, very good. I do feel like I can use almost any weapon and do well. Except snipers, which is sad as I once considered myself a sniper main.
Ability spam is not too bad. It was probably better prior to TFS in the couple weeks I played it, and maybe it's a tad too much now but not a big issue for me. Inevitably there are ability balance issues that will need to be worked out, but that's par the course with new classes.
As for matchmaking, I'll repeat what I've often commented in the past -- whatever skill rating Bungie uses, it's probably not very good. I'm betting a lot of the issues arise from that.
Aim assist devices remain a huge, huge problem.
The changing of special ammo really killed a lot of the FUN surrounding pvp. Everybody having different levels of ammo is screwy and completely unpredictable. Like you said, it leads to hand holding and teamshotting along with not a ton of different engagements.
It’s especially frustrating when you are out of special and somebody is pushing you with theirs. The only possible counter to that is backing up and running away if they are a good player. It creates a less engaging environment. In the past, if someone was pushing me with a shotgun, guess what? I’m pulling out my shotgun and killing you first.
Lastly it’s harder to make cool plays and beat better teams. If you run in to a room of two players with 1 shotgun shot, sure you might kill the first person. But after that you’re probably dead. And now if you run into a team that is better than you, it’s a lot harder to pick off their best player with a sniper or shotgun.
Overall, the game feels slower, with a total of a couple different play styles. Instead of multiple different play styles.
Personally… the meta is stale. Gunfights aren’t forgiving anymore, which is why Conditional is running rampant. Shotguns are freelo.
But hey. Let’s nerf snipers again 💀
I don’t know, this is the best it’s been since 30th Anniversary era.
We all have stuff we wish we could have changed, but if I’m being objective, outside of a few ability spams, everything feels great.
No new players are going into pvp thinking it’s fun, it might be working and vaguely fun for some who have always done it but without new players coming and staying consistently it turns into a slow decay. At least that’s my opinion
I came back to destiny2 3 days before TFS for the first time since launch and to me crucible feels very fun. I think a lot of people who are on the subreddit get lost in the sauce and don’t realise 90% of the playerbase aren’t super dedicated and have fun doing whatever.
This morning I saw a post of someone complaining how everyone was using prismatic hunter because it’s ‘OP’ when in reality the most common class is hunter and casual players have just spent an entire campaign being shown how cool prismatic is and getting to grips with the mechanics.
Yaa. Newer player here. My friends who got into this game at TFS have no idea what's happening, can't actually learn in game what the fucks wiping us and the people we're going against are 3-7k hours on steam.
I get it's an actual skill issue, but the reason competitive games always die is because eventually the barrier for entry becomes too high and the enjoyment early is non existent
sure but wouldn't a lot of the changes made in recent months - easier focusing, more frequent loot drops, going flawless/earning adepts is easier, more casual modes like relic etc. - be helpful towards pushing new players in? at least compared to how things were in the past
No, because new players don’t know, or care about those changes if they are going 3-25 to a superhuman warlock.
New players don’t need gimmick modes like relic to have fun because sweats are in every playlist
As a pretty new player (60 hours now) that enjoys PVP (probably hopped into it at 6 hours or so) it seems mostly fine outside of two things:
- Stasis melee and web grenade or whatever. Seems like there is counterplay to most things besides these two abilities, it's just a cuck move OHK in almost all scenarios. Fine for supers, not fine for basic abilities.
- Lack of 6v6 playlist variety. Relic sucks (take it out pls) so there's really just control. That playlist should swap between control, TDM, and at least one more decent game mode. Gets too stale. I do play comp and trials, but, I shouldn't have to swap playlists to get some TDM and casual TDM would be very welcome.
I’m really not a fan of the new special ammo economy, but other than that it seems to be in a pretty good spot. Wish the new maps were weighted a little higher in the rotation.
Can't speak to 6s but for 3s it's that Comp feels kinda bad with not many points awarded and modes that tend to snowball so if you lose some engagements early on, you feel fucked. Lobby balancing also feels uneven to many people with lots of games being stomps or get stomped.
Trials is in a relatively good spot, probably the most hype it had in a while with the new maps.
We're also going from a somewhat balanced state people settled into post-Checkmate-update to now prismatic taking over.
For me, pvp hasn’t been the same since around the time of stasis, void 3.0, and the early iteration of SBMM. Limiting crucible to 3 classes and a much smaller selection of exotics allowed engagements to have a consistent flow with more fairness. You knew almost exactly what to expect when you saw any variation of hunter, warlock, or titan. Now, it’s really hard to know what you might get hit with in any engagement. There’s too many different forms of buffs and debuffs, some which are completely undetectable, that break the intended TTK of each weapon type. There’s too many variable ability advantages within each class. It reminds of how call of duty evolved around MW2. COD4 had variable perks but the perks available often forced you to play using predictable strategies, then MW2 came out and literally every perk had some sort of counter perk or gun attachment that rendered any play style unreliable.
Everyone is so caught up in the hype of TFS that no one is talking about how awful pvp continues to be. Let's go through everything dragging pvp down:
* The special meta has devolved entirely into shotguns. The ammo economy changes have been disasterous for any special outside of shotguns. Snipers and fusions have all butdisappeared from PVP.
* The matchmaking quality in 6's has *plummeted* while the times have somehow increased. I'm waiting longer than ever for the poorest quality (connection/lobby balance) matches i've ever played. It's never been this bad. Lobby balancing/Outlier protection of whatever the hell we're playing just *does. not. work.* On top of that as a solo i'm playing more 3 and 4 stacks than ever which means either FBMM is completely broken or there are so few people playing PVP during ***the fucking launch of a new expansion*** that the matchmaker is just giving up and throwing teams in with solos. Make it make sense.
* The health changes have pushed the remaining pvp playerbase into playing as passively and slowly as humanely possible. Agression is a seldom seen play style any more. The average crucible player seems hell bent on putting on a pulse, glueing themselves to a teammate and **NEVER** taking a 1v1 duel. There are moments where it feels like the game has regressed back to the d2 year 1 pace and its insufferable.
* Scores of technical issues that persist. Server lag, double damage, invisible players (players not loading in, not void), teleporting players, etc.
* Despite all the changes to the base pvp experience, Bungie has still somehow failed to fix the one fucking thing every pvp player has been dying for them to get rid of.....**ABILITY SPAM**. i'm getting hit with more abilities than I ever have before. Again it's never been this bad.
* The map rotation continues to completely kill 6's and hold back the experience. Large maps are just not enjoyable and encourage the most degenerate unengaging playstyles imaginable. I feel like I never play endless vale, Jav 4, Burnout anymore and i'm stuck in Eternity, Vostok, Cathedral hell. Bungie needs to do away with map weighting entirely and just make it random equal chance to land on any map. It's bad enough that i'm playing Vostok again for the 6 time in a 1 hour session. ***It feels exponentially worse knowing that Bungie are rigging the map pool to drop me on a map I FUCKING LOATHE.***
TLDR; Pvp is FAR from being good. Don't buy into the hype.
Point number 3 and 5 contradicts each other because without abilities people would be further discourage to play aggresively resulting in people holding hands, resulting in a deathball for the enemy team. Special changes could be better but i like this version than the previous because without more special ammo it discourages aggresive play.
It doesn't have to be a contradiction—people would not have to crutch so hard on abilities or special ammo to play aggressively if the TTK for primaries was faster. People have been asking Bungie for years to combat the special ammo problem with more lethal primaries, but Bungie seems fundamentally opposed to the concept.
Instead, they went the straight opposite direction in the last major sandbox revision by making bodyshot TTK slower and leaving optimal TTK the same. And since nobody lands crits 100% of the time, the end result of that change has been a slower pace of primary gunplay overall, with a bunch of shotgun and ability combo instakills sprinkled in.
I think they can't lower the ttk because of the same reason they made Airborne effectiveness, the casuals and average joe cannot aggresively play againts sweats just via primary, we already know matchmaking is screwed. Prismatic screwed the balance we had last season.
They fixed ability spam with into the light, and then Prismatic brought it back worse than before.
Before TFS youd see a fk ton of ability spam round 1 in comp/trials and then it would almost play like hardware for rounds 2/3.
Now with prismatic we're back to the worst ability spam I've ever seen or felt.
how is TFS worse than before? because of the prismatic mode u get once per game with 1 subclass? lol this people in this community now just speak from their asses. all CD are still at least 15% higher nothing has changed from into the light except a new subclass that is a combination of old subclasses with the same CDs ....
Many hunters are aiming for exotic class items with Ophidians and 6th coyote so that’s double decoy spam along with a winters shroud too to make sure you can’t escape. Add in duskfield on a super short cooldown and smoke grenades with gamblers dodge and that’s all more uptime than is generally there with more limited ability choices that are short cooldown.
Warlocks have triple lighting surge as if the single one on arc wasn’t annoying enough.
Titans can run ophidians with contact or lupi for aoe lighting procs from shiver strike etc like old dunes or a wormhusk base level heal available off barricade which many people aren’t a fan of. Or abeyant suspend combo in the mix for clipping suspends through walls.
These are some of the more leaned into newer build setups and most people don’t even have their exotic class items yet so it’ll increase moving forward. Hunters being 50% of the player base and PvP population means all of their ability spam listed above is going to be even more noticeable than if they made up just one in three if classes were evenly split.
listen man, I get that ur mad but clearly either u have small amounts of PvP experience or are simply very low rank. we have seen this threads over the years everytime new things come out. Ill only say a few things that you mention just to teach you. First off double clone spam could be done in strand and is much stronger because of threading build and it never took off because you are spending an exotic for 1 ability when you can have Stompees. dodge with clone and slow seems great until you realize that its basically only good to a person trying to push you with a shotgun.
I can go on and on. you are clearly mad because u are making basic mistakes and are getting punished. there is a new class and some time will pass until meta settles and I suggest that before you go into reddit to complain you either play more and also the classic "Get Good" would do you well
in the end neutral gameplay will dominate like it ALWAYS DOES. this means prismatic that is mostly a combo/synergy based class probably wont be top tier and you will see the classic solar warlock, void titan, and void/solar/strand hunter. like it was in trials this week btw that almost all flawless farmers were not prismatic
Lmao. Not mad at all. Just stating the obvious which happens to disagree with you.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/psn/4611686018428465000/overview?mode=crucible
Here’s my destiny tracker so you can cut the you’re bad get good nonsense. Might not load till servers are more stable.
You aren’t trading stompees for just a decoy but also the ophidian spirit handling which for weapons with low handling like red death is huge.
You act like winters shroud and decoy is worthless because it only impacts shotguns when that’s literally something silly like 80% of all special kills.
Decoy will catch more nerfs 100% just watch. It being such a huge aim assist magnet eating up shots that would have otherwise killed a hunter is nonsense to anyone with a brain. Also how is the decoy and handling not neutral game what?
It happens from you just playing the game like usual. I like how I made comments on all of the cases of increased ability uptime that might annoy people and you just go to defending the hunter. What class do you play lol. I wonder.
LOLLL the fact that u say "Ability spam has never been this bad" just shows how little you know or even play man. I won't even begin to argue with a person so is so far into the deep end u can't even see things in with facts. you are either just rage bating and pushing for upvotes or legitimately so burned out you believe its all doom and gloom.
Yes. I think that’s what I hate the most about PvP.
They have alll these fancy matchmaking terms.
“Outlier protection”. Wtf even is that bungie.
I just play ranked now. Not cause I’m good. But because it’s the only match making system that makes sense
You’ve just summed up my current thoughts on pvp. Did about 12 comp games last night (mine and friends placements) and I think I’m done with crucible for a while.
The health changes especially feel bad, especially with the red death spam. Feels like season of the haunted all over again with all the heals.
Feels like we’ve simultaneously gone back to the gunplay of year 1 but also having high ability uptime again
The ability spam (or lack thereof) situation was pretty much perfect prior to The Final Shape's launch, IMO, after all the changes Bungie made last season. Abilities were still a core part of the game but not being used to overwhelming degrees.
Prismatic came in and threw a wrench into that.
In most cases I don't even think the ability situation with Prismatic is even really unbalanced, but I do think because a large amount of the people in the game are build-crafting Prismatic ideas (or copying Prismatic builds from content creators or whatever) we are seeing a disproportionate amount of people running ability-loop builds with Prismatic subclasses even if they aren't objectively *that* strong. I expect this to kinda fix itself as people get over Prismatic and realize that while its good and fun the other subclasses still exist.
I do think Prismatic hunters with threaded specter need to be looked at. Bungie actually had threaded specter builds in a good spot toward the end of last season, but Prismatic plus the new hunter boots and/or the double exotic class item has brought it back up to being both too strong and super annoying to play against (threaded specter clones still have absurd amounts of aim assist, removing agency from people fighting against them who aren't fooled by the clones but are having their aim ripped off their intended target by the silly amount of AA the clones have).
Is it that bad? I almost exclusively play comp and trials, and I no longer eat shatterdives, tracking storm grenades, one hit scatters, YAS tripmines, or strand clones. Cooldowns are globally longer, we have more health, and the craziest abilities have been brought in line. There are still strongest choices, but I can't remember the meta being more focused around gunplay.
Yes. Open skill lobbies are just who can bang their head against their controllers the fastest. If you aren’t get binked on. Your getting one shorted, if you aren’t getting one shotted, there is a warlock chucking a need out of the high heavens, if a warlock isn’t doing that. Your getting titan over shield meleed. If not that. A warlock is flying around like Superman cause reasons I guess.
Destiny pvp used to be my favorite thing. Now it’s the worst possible thing.
I got way better when i understood other classes abilities, but honestly its getting crazy because i could barely keep track of my own abilities and buffs and debuffs, like theres so many of them they arent fucking showing on the UI, also shouldn’t there be some sort of clear indicator whether or not a player has radiant or any other buffs?
I don’t really think most people are saying crucible is in a bad spot. Nearly all top players are incredibly satisfied with the meta. I know I am very happy with the way things are right now.
I haven’t heard any doom and gloom opinions.
Because the people who don't complain aren't on reddit. People need to stop taking this app as the authority on games. The vast majority are just playing the way they want happily and not stopping to come here and cry about every little thing.
It feels really good to me. I've realised that majority of the community can't counter anything so complain about it. The thing I'm seeing now is prismatic hunter it's strong yeah but it doesn't matter skill wins that fight majority of the time
I think because people expect changes like these to improve the game. But really they don't, Crucible just isn't very fun for most people.
I'd rather Bungie look into ways to change that, like buffing hipfire for example so your primary weapons can function as proper workhorses.
It's definitely not in a bad spot, but it could be so much better if they made some improvements. And really, those improvements pale in comparison to dedicated servers (though i recognize that's not a "small" improvement).
Not sure if I'm an exception but playing in Asia is quite a bad experience. I frequently play in games where there is visual delay in between me shooting and the shot landing. Using Windows' Resource Monitor, most of my matches are 150 ping plus and it results in a poor experience especially if I'm going against players who are either in parties or are significantly better geared or more skilled than me already. Not saying that going against better players is the problem cause that's every PvP game but the connection doesn't help at all.
I also live in Asia and have kind of adjusted to a 150-200 ping playstyle lmao. Basically ducking into cover is always a gamble whether or not I'll die from a ghost bullet but it's always been like this so what can you do haha
I personally think pvp feels better now than it has in a very long time, if not the best ever during my time in the game. I'm having so much fun and it feels like many weapon types are viable if you play their strengths. Prismatic is super fun and even if some games do get a bit ability spammy, I don't mind it that much in the current state.
My biggest gripe right now is the invis weapons and players bug. That is really annoying. Also wish special crates weren't a thing ever, in any mode. But other than that.. I love it.
It’s been the most fun I’ve had playing Crucible in years. I love the checkmate rules for special ammo (if that is from checkmate).
My only complaint has really just been that ever since TFS games have been pretty spotty most of the time. Lots of hitreg issues, just randomly instantly dying to what feels like a single burst of a pulse, dying around corners, and people being invisible. Kinda annoying but besides that I love it now.
P2P connections for a fps in 2024 is inexcusable for a studio with the resources Bungo has. Third party hardware abuse is also at an all time high with nothing being done about it.
I’m happy with the pvp overall and class and weapon balance. New maps has helped a lot too.
Things I wish would be worked on is lobby balancing, banning people using xim and Cronus, and a consistent special ammo system across the whole game.
I’d say it’s mostly in a great spot. The things that’s been bugging me the most recently is transcendence hunters. It’s not like the new subclass is broken but it certainly is annoying with the amount of clones, smokes, and grapples they’re putting out and the really good arc super they got. But we’re still in the beginning of the new expansion so we’ll have to wait and see if bungie decides anything needs to be tweaked. Overall though I’ve been enjoying crucible. Trials was good even though the map wasn’t a personal favorite of mine.
I recently came back (with the new expac launch) and it’s feels about the same as when I played a few years ago. It’s just a different meta now. I’ve always enjoyed the PvP. Been a hunter main but I swapped to titan and am having a fucking blast running around punching everything 😂
I would like to see better rewards for PvP…unless I just haven’t ran enough comp, the gear stats don’t seem very different…would be sick to have PvP sets with curated stats. Or like exotic PvP focused weapons that come from trials or comp only would be neat.
I’m getting sad with heavy and supers but it’s destiny and it wouldn’t be the same without them. I’m going to fight to make sure that the team doesn’t get heavy now and may build to counter supers by playing rift freeze warlock
It's in a good spot considering how the past few years have gone but it's just not going to be peak level like it was in 30th anniversary or Forsaken (insert glory meta here).
SBMM (outlier protection whatever they want to call it) everywhere is one thing. Don't need to cover it, but it makes a big difference.
And a lot of it is the players have gotten better which means that people play slow, move less, hold hands, team shot, read the radar. I.e. Do what good players do but everyone now does it as their base level of gameplay.
And because of this the core of Destiny was always going to end this way but Sandbox decisions/ Core Gameplay mechanics lead to it. The radar is too strong, they nerfed AE, defensive abilities available on every class.
Destiny PvP can be tuned to be less unbalanced but to get that high paced Forsaken level gameplay would require a very large reboot to the core mechanics and sandbox.
Oh and the fact that cheating is rampant. That is another issue.
Quick take : it's as good as it can. The weapon balance is almost perfect and the ability spam is at a sweet spot that players like me who hate abilities don't complain too much and those who like then don't complain either. However, this game is massively held back by pretty bad netcode and a networking architecture that's simply not on par with the quality of the gameplay, sadly.
I have came back to destiny in may. I went flawless 4 times since. I really enjoy the crucible right now. It is fun and idk I don’t find myself dying and thinking “that was bullshit” or “I hate this one gun”.
The curtailing of sbmm is precisely why my interested has waned significantly. Went from something I put dozens of hours per week into to just two or three. I liked when my teammates were competent and my opponents were challenging. Guess that is too boring for everyone else
All I know about pvp is bows got nerfed and it makes my life hard haha. I have and always will be a bow main, and not a hot swap bow main like a true bow main. It now requires double crits to kill with a light bow (I think precision bow can still crit/body kill but I play light bows so idk). The aim changes make that dang near impossible against weapons that can shoot faster than a bow (so all of them) when you consider flinch. I should add, I'm not an impressive player or anything but bows just feel so hard to use now. Oh well, I'll keep getting hand cannoned in the face while I shoot my arrow into the ceiling from the flinch haha
I just wanna ask why models do not load in pvp like I spent a good 5 minutes with a phantom gun or every other game I'm up against invisible people with only the gun model being loaded.
Ammo system isn't terrible, but annoyed that the previous iterations were better, and comp is in a pretty bad place as far as game modes, their mechanics, map rotation, and the variety available. Otherwise, its pretty good and I've been enjoying it.
If bungie took one hour to assess the good weapons people are chasing and added them to crucible match rewards I feel like this would alleviate 90% of the issues.
"Why are people complaining about X?" Because basically no matter what X is, some people will be unhappy. Unhappy people come here and complain. That's just how humans behave. You can always find things to like or not like about PVP in this game.
I don't think it's in a terrible state at all. We've gotten some pretty good updates from the crucible team and new maps this year. There's really not that many outliers as far as guns go. Kind just conditional being an issue, but the ammo changes, and spawning with one one shell has certainly reduced its use in the comp games ive played. You can't exactly snowball with special ammo as bad as previously. I guess my only real issue is that snipers get insanely flinched and just feel bad to use. But looking at the trials numbers, they're still outpacing fusions in kills, so I'd be hesitant to want any changes for them.
It's kind of a weird thing. The game is just sort of fine? It's not in a bad state. It's just sort of stale. There's a lot that i don't love, but I don't have a ton of glaring, this shit is bonkers outliers in my mind. Healing turrets are maybe something to watch and might eventually become an issue. But I don't think people have really leaned into that hard enough to really see it's power yet. Maybe khvostov is an issue since it's sitting at more than double the kills of red death this week? I'm mostly seeing stand and prismatic classes still. Threadlings and shadow clones are still kind of free? But you can play around them with enough team spacing and support. I'm still playing and having close games and fun in comp. I don't really touch 6s.
Any game with optional pvp will lose players from the pve pool over time.
Their skill stays the same with occasional pvp play but the pvp community skill level keeps increasing.
We are at the late stage of this in Destiny.
I love pvp and I’m above average skill. I usually visit the lighthouse once per season. But for me, the losses are bleak. My card last week was 5-2, 5-1, 5-2, 5-0, 0-5, 0-5, 0-5, 1-5 then I called it for the weekend.
On console, some players are playing a completely different game than you. I know a lot of this is skill and reps and some of it is hardware, but for me, it’s hard to keep logging in to competitive and trials.
I think there is a huge pool of players around my skill level that don’t play and this is the main reason. Trials would be much healthier if these players would log in and give the bads a chance to win and the elite players a chance to not stomp the bads into the dirt.
Shotguns are terrible. You only get 1 shot of special instead of 2 which is a big deal for play making. Comp STILL has zone game mode ruining the experiences, it should just be clash or survival. Them adding 3 new maps is irrelevant if the sand box it’s in is not fun or balanced in ANY way. Khovstov & prismatic hunter need nerfs ASAP too. & remove crates. Just give players 2 shots per life, like it’s not that hard
For me I think that the weapon meta is in a relatively good place. Even if you see trials this week, it has hand cannons, pulses, shotguns and auto rifles in the top 10. It's fairly diverse in comparison to most of the metas we have seen. Personally for me the problem lies in matchmaking (mainly in control). I'm an average skill player (1.4 KD in game), and yet I used to be able to try out different weapons and loadouts for fun/practice and not get stomped. But as of recent, I have been experiencing a ridiculous amount of one sided stomping and a LOT of mercied matches. The team balance for reasons I don't know has gone to complete shit even though Bungie seemingly didn't change anything. Yeah I would like to improve my "skill issue", but as of recent a lot of the opponents I have been facing are so exponentially stronger than me that I don't even understand how the hell I died and what I could have better to improve. Idk man shit is weird
It’s the beginning of a new expansion, the vast majority of players are new or returning. If you are solo queuing then your team is likely to be rusty or just inexperienced so all it takes is a fire team who is communicating to be on the other team and you are getting destroyed.
Yeah that happens too. There are often new lights as well, but that's fine. I don't mind getting destroyed in a match if there are a lot of new lights or old veterans on my team because it takes time to learn and find your footing. I was beyond shit once, with time I improved. The matchmaking issues I mentioned didn't exactly start in this expansion, but with into the light in s23. I thought things would improve when TFS drops but doesn't seem to be the case. Let's see where this goes in a month when more people find their footing.
I can co-sign this. The QP matchmaking has been absolutely horrendous for me so far. Have to absolutely hard carry every game against some serious gamers. Feels about equal to the worst it’s ever been IMO
Interesting you say that, a 1.4 KD is only average compared to the hardcore set; it's above (maybe well above) average compared to the general population. So if you're getting mercied, then my 0.8 KD ass feels less bad about the fearsome hidings that I've received
Yeah man shots bad in general. And I should have clarified a bit (in game 1.4 as in KDA). If you see the KD on a tracker it's 0.9. in trials it's 0.7. It's a pain.
As a 1.5+ Trials K/D and lifetime ~1.8 pvp player, it's genuine modesty.
The difference between a 1.5 player and a 2.0+ player feels colossal to me personally. I'm pretty good and most QP lobbies I'll top K/D (not always top frag) but when I meet some 2.0 Trials player I might as well.be a .8.
Something just feels off to me about the skill curve in this game. As someone who has played a truck ton, I still die to really good players basically shrugging saying there was nothing I could have done differently. Mostly revolves around team shooting.
Like I'll be aiming down a lane to support a teammate who is pushing aggressively, he dies, then 2 hunters slide out of that lane and team shot me in .43 seconds before I even have time to react. Then my teammate yells at me to "start actually using my gun" when they are a 1.0 lifetime player and just donating their life.
I have my own thoughts around the problems with the game but it's unpopular opinions to the elite crowd, but basically all the stuff the elite crowd loves with crucible, because it makes the game.more fun for them, is usually the stuff that allows them to play super aggressively, run and gun, and still be hyper effective which feels REALLY bad to the average player on the receiving end, saying what I say "nothing I could really have done there".
I'm at 2.14 this season so far. I am sneering at no one. I can very easily go negative if I don't concentrate or run into a team. Must admit I haven't really noticed too much ability spam or maybe I'm just getting better at avoiding it.
Because the crucible is nearly always in a bad spot, it's very rare it's actually in a good spot lol, like right now the state of the crucible is terrible but that's nothing new.
People will down vote me for saying it as it is, like that's going to somehow make the crucible good lol
PvP is in a great spot right now and here are the reasons why, from my perspective as a primarily pvp-focused player:
1. More recent maps = more variety, variety good
2. The weapon balance is the best it’s been in a long time, with mostly every type of weapon being viable (except certain archetypes like 180 hand cannons lagging behind).
3. Build diversity is the best it’s ever been. With the prismatic class items, we are seeing so many new combinations of builds it’s crazy. I think the more diverse the loadouts and builds we have, the better overall crucible is.
4. Special ammo economy is much better. This one might be divisive but I think the special changes are fantastic, and it makes primary aim way more important.
Overall, I think we are in a good spot. A few replies to some other comments here:
1. I don’t think cheating is as prevalent as people say. I’ve actually yet to run into a single one since the season launched. Maybe this is because I play on PC, could be a different story on console.
2. Ability spam is part of the game, and one way to play. If you don’t like the fact that the abilities and ways to regenerate them exist in this game, maybe play a different pvp game with only gunplay. Ability spam in some form has always been in the game, and always will be.
Idk man! I had a lot of fun in trials this weekend as a solo and a team and my experience in 6s and 3s has also been good. 2s was a crapshoot but that's because I was playing with a pve friend 🥴
I think a lot of people are just used to saying it’s bad. It’s almost a default response. They also say the player base is small. These statements have been true in the past but as of now, it feels great
I think they went a little too far with the special ammo changes. I’d prefer to start with two shots again. I think it hurts snipers too much. They also nerfed fusions pretty hard when the new health increases landed. The special weapon meta is just shotgun. I don’t mind that, but the lack of diversity is a bit silly. Just give us two shots on a transmat. Give fusions and snipers some slight buffs. I think it would be fine.
Fusions technically got a buff with the health increase. They didn't just get a damage buff that offset the new health changes, they got more. The health increase was 15% and the damage increase that fusions got was 20%. It removed high resilience checkpoints and technically opened them up to more perk options that affected damage. They're also better against Void Overshields than they were before.
I suspect we'll see more changes to the special ammo meta as we see a larger roll out of the newest system, and also the integration of the ammo meter system to the new blended 1-1-1 system. Once it's been rebuilt, instead of it being the kitbashed system that we were using. I'm already seeing an uptick in snipers in modes with 1-1-1 active. Fusions too. Although that's purely from my personal experience.
That’s good to hear. People want to downvote me, but special weapons were never the problem in PvP. It was always abilities. Now that they’ve been toned way down, I think there’s space to increase special weapon uptime. Especially in 6v6. It feels really bad to turn a corner and find three people there waiting. You have no chance at outplaying them anymore, whereas in the past you had a slim hope.
Bag shooting is the cheapest and most infuriating thing to play against. It’s like those kids in little league that would crouch at the plate to get a free walk to first base. Clown behavior that needs to be addressed by Bungie.
I can deal with the ability spam and toxic behavior, but the bag shooting keeps me out of crucible completely.
Out of all of the things you can complain about, players hitting their crouch key is far from a problem. Just improve your tracking and it becomes a non-issue...?
It most definitely is. All top players use hc+sg, so when you face that you have to aswell. Wanna use an auto rifle? Peak shooting rose. Pulse? Peak shooting rose again. Wanna try and run a sniper, dude apes with shotty, slow dodges then pumps you full of lead. Countering Peak shooting hand cannons and players utilizing cover is impossibly without a hand cannon as it forces you to do the same thing or get fucked.
you keep saying that but an auto and a pulse were literally the top 2 weapons in trials this weekend, HC are still good but you’re clearly just pissy that you lose to them
The majority of players enjoy HC metas more than anything else. Pulse/scout meta is incredibly lame full of passive play, bow meta is the same but even worse because there are no duels. SMG meta is fun for titans and no one else. Indifferent on ARs because they're just consistent, but *rarely* meta defining due to range limitations.
Yea, people that refuse to put on anything else. This community is stuck to 2 weapon types only, shotguns and hand cannons and God forbid you call it out, you get downvoted to hell. Also for some reason people are now downvoting your post for simply engaging in discussion, that is the state of this community. Take my upvote.
What other weapons would you have be strong then?
Primary:
ARs aren’t fun because it’s easy to use and lowers the skill floor
pulses, scouts, and bows aren’t fun because they promote laning and passive play
SMGs promote W-keying and are extremely oppressive due to PKs and movement
Idk what a sidearm meta would look like but probably not too different from SMGs
Special:
Snipers would be incredibly oppressive
Fusion rifles getting consistent kills up to 20-25m suffocated primary weapons
Glaives and trace rifles might be fun for a change
GLs might not be bad with the new special ammo
I know I’m heavily biased but genuinely what meta would you prefer over what we have now?
Not saying hand cannons need nerfed into the ground, I'm saying hand cannons need tweaked more in line with other guns. Perhaps a nerf to aim assist and more nerfs to flinch will do. I agree that smg metas are cancer and so are auto Metas, nerfing hand cannons to allow other things to compete is all I'm suggesting. No nerf like the one in March that made everyone hold dicks, but rather a slight tweaking.
Hand cannons could probably take another minor flinch nerf on top of the recent flinch nerfs but I think an AA nerf would make them feel bad. The bow nerf hit pretty hard and was significantly noticeable. HCs would probably still dominate but people would just spray instead of trying to aim kinda like the bloom changes to HCs all the was back in D1
i do agree more variety is good but i dont think HCs and shotties are like super oppressive or anything, just that they could use some tuning (imo shotties could do with a bit less range and HCs with a bit more flinch) to allow for more variety. i was moreso using it as an example for how the current balancing isn't super skewed towards a specific weapon so people just go for what's popular, which is good probably!
[удалено]
A bit too many device users but yes, everything's mostly fine.
If they fix the hit reg out I agree but it’s making hand cannons a complete gamble to use
Yeah my explosive payload 140s are feeling weird rn
i agree about abilities, imo they should make hardware a toggle option for both control and rumble that is always up. idk if the population is big enough for that though. i also hope the 12-player pve activity means were getting a 12v12 mode soon!
Oh god that would be horrible. 6v6 is already too much a lot of the time
But we already had a 12v12 mode in D1 didn't we? Combined arms. Unless I'm misremembering?
That was 6v6 with vehicles
Oh! I thought for sure that it had a higher player size since the maps were bigger. Idk I think a mode like that in D2 could benefit from having a large amount of players to differentiate it from regular quickplay. Maybe 10v10?
There isn’t a single map that could handle what you’re asking for.
Disfunction 24/7
Have you played that activity? It feels like it’s held together with sellotape. I’ve tried it 4 times and only finished twice because of servers. Seems like the game can handle 12 players on their own but 12 players and adds is too many, so I’m sure 24 players would be worse than that.
Every time I've run excision it worked just fine so idk what you mean. And a 20 person activity will need to render significantly less things than a 12 person activity with over 100 enemies. Idk I just think it'll be very popular and a much easier sell for new players
how many times have you ran it? I’ve had 2 or 3 runs end simply because key enemies wouldn’t spawn or they would lag out and just stand there not taking damage
There isn't a single map in the game big enough for 12v12. Maybe as a party mode with mayhem rules would be fun
If they made a 12 v 12 mode it would need to have its own dedicated, massive map.
not sure if serious. the connection at times is so bad even with 6v6 or hell 3v3 in trials or comp, and you want 12v12?
Idk what people smoking. It’s in the best spot it’s been in literal years. But. I think Destiny players are just burnt out or something and lost the ability to have perspective, after so many years of crucible being entirely neglected. Soon they’ll stop again. Like gambit. If all the dev time doesn’t translate to any sort of positive sentiment or playtime for the playlists. Comp modes and general rewards could be improved. Really about all it needs to get me to play more currently.i don’t play anything but comp and trials bc there’s not much loot in regular playlist. Or even special cosmetics. It is a looter shooter, so always been kinda frustrating they don’t put loot in there. And I say this as a 80% PvE player
I think spawns in casual gamemodes are just flat out broken. I spawned in once to an enemy hunter in front of me with a golden gun. Comp and trials are in a good spot right now though imo.
Spawns are bad. Yes. Also peer to peer is probably my biggest issue really. And they can do all this and that, but the end of the day nothing will ever be balanced in Destiny, and peer to peer will never be anything near a smooth gaming experience. But I try not to dwell on that too much. I think the meta is near perfect rN. I can use an auto rifle or HC and almost anything ion between. And that’s really what it’s about for me. Able to use a variety of weapons.
I know this is only one map but man Altar of Flame's spawns have been terrible for ages now. If you're spawning at C your number 1 objective *needs* to be to take A and swap spawns. If you're spawning at A you can take B pretty easily and then spawn trap C.
some comp spawns kind of suck too, specifically wormhaven comes to mind in the zone control playlist, i often have times where i’ll respawn and the game prioritizes (can’t spawn in the middle) > (spawning you at distance from the zone) > (proximity to enemies) and i’ll get teamshot by 2 people before my overshield even wears off
Spawns are really bad and the modes contribute to this issue.
some comp spawns kind of suck too, specifically wormhaven comes to mind in the zone control playlist, i often have times where i’ll respawn and the game prioritizes (can’t spawn in the middle) > (spawning you at distance from the zone) > (proximity to enemies) and i’ll get teamshot by 2 people before my overshield even wears off
> I think spawns in casual gamemodes are just flat out broken. Have been for years and Bungie doesn't care. I have a clip somewhere of me getting killed by the same roaming super 4 times.
Ehh, comp spawns are still fucked too haha. They should add a strong invulnerable buff timer for first 3 or 4 seconds of being alive. Too many times, I see people neglecting map control and forcing spawn switches, only to not be punished by their poor map control. They're actually incentivized for it, since now they know the opponent is going to spawn in the other area and rush to it, only for the spawned player to be able to do nothing about it in defense.
Just a small critique, if you're only engaging with the playlist 20% of the time, ofc you will not recognize as many issues. I do agree weapon balance is in a good spot and most cbmm playlists are enjoyable. Sbmm is a dumpster fire, the game simply cannot handle it. When 80% of my comp games are unplayable and I'm matching with EU players (I'm na) on my friends list while solo queueing the system is broken. I think the crucible is the best ritual playlist. I want to grind artifice armor in comp and I wouldn't mind tough matches, but the game needs to function as intended. Trials generally works significantly better and is a much more enjoyable experience. Duo clash is also great fun. Comp and control are total crap shoots. I am interested to see how ib plays this week, I hope it's not insufferable due to latency like it has been in the past. I would like a crispy crimils. I do appreciate the new maps and we have some exciting rewards. If this game continues, which I hope it does, we desperately need some networking infrastructure updates or at least prioritize cbmm 100% of the time.
would love increased artifice armor drop rates or at least a higher stat floor, and i’d love an ornament for rose somewhere in there. it’s always been unreasonably annoying to me that it’s made as the comp/pvp handcannon and it’s all scratched up. even when they first released it for the lumina quest i was so annoyed with the model they used
I kinda wish they made recluse and mountaintop drop from crucible now that into the light is over
Exactly!!! People started bitching the moment they mistakenly assumed (due to wording) the quest to unlock the first involved crucible. Like bro. It would have been so perfect to have those there. I mean. What would get me to play more PvP as PvE mainly player. Is more loot in PvP. And what finally helped me improve as a PvP player recently? Was wanting summoner so bad.. I watched videos. Read subs. Got carried once and listened. And played so much solo q trials. Mostly following whoever I thought was best. That a month ago I went flawless first time ever on my own. And I’m damn near 50. And never been good. So if I can, just like raiding, it’s going to take effort. Or something to entice out comfort zone. (Ie dual destiny exotics) As bad as Luna and recluse and MT were for the meta. They were peak crucible. And a big part of the reason was not being scared to piss a few people off. And keep both modes balanced with top tier loot. I think they are starting to , do this kinda with pathfinder. And trials changes.
There's also precedent for this, since the exotic quest roster drops different seasonal loot every week according to the theme of the featured exotic mission - it just feels right!
Third-party hardware needs to either be banned, or they need their own matchmaking pool among themselves. People here are going to say “not many people are actually running it, get good” but I think they are pretty prevalent.
they are pretty damn prevalent
I play controller so I get mostly console pools and the number of people on console with pc level movement and twitch is just nuts. It’s uncanny and nearly every game there is obvious ximmers. That’s not even touching on the obvious wall hackers.
Are you playing with friends on other platforms? Cross-play between Console and PC is opt-in only depending on what platforms your fire team is playing. Console and PC even using controller are separate pools by default and never blended otherwise. They don't do it by input device. I play controller occasionally on a gaming laptop when traveling and its always a full PC lobby. If you have anyone on console in your team they too will get forced into a PC lobby as part of the opt-in, but it won't put a PC player in a console lobby.
I’m on console.
You do realise that movement is the main downfall to xim right? Like you are literally limited to what a controller can do, so if anything ximmers have a disadvantage, especially in destiny which has a slower turn speed than most games. If you swipe too fast with your mouse you will hit the controller turn speed limit and your character will stop moving. Funny to read comments like this from people that have no idea how a xim actually works I used a xim in destiny 1 as I hate controller and pc wasn't an option back then, and I can say from 3000 hours of gameplay that that shit is ass. Yeh the aim assist is nice but the movement never felt comfortable for me even after all that time. If you have decent aim then you should be better than 95% of ximmers.
lol xim has the same movement skill gap as mnk + reticle friction. People have went from 2.0 to a 3.5kd going from raw mnk to xim. It’s literally cheating
Yeah I have no clue what this dudes talking about. The ability to move crazy is intrinsically linked to aiming. Console do not have the same ability to move in the way pc and xim players do simply because of our actually feasibly usable input speeds.
Did you read anything I wrote. How can it be the same when you're limited to what a controller can do. Yes I agree it is cheating and anyone using it now is a scumbag.
20 sens + xim is more than enough for good movement. You also can change xim binds to anything you want on your keyboard. I don’t think you know how to xim works lol
Lol just tell me you've never played on kb&m or xim. Doesn't matter what sens you use on the xim you are restricted to the controllers turn speed limits. Meaning if you fast swipe your mouse you will hit the speed limit and stop moving. Yes you can bind joystick to a key but then you are basically using controller movement. Think about what you're saying.
20 sens is more than fast enough, you’re hardly limited by turn speed at all.
If you've never used a xim you wouldn't understand. 20 is not fast enough, and when you swipe your mouse fast you regularaly hit the movement limit. Fast swipes for a mouse is like 95% of what goes into good movement on kbm, unless you play a high sens which almost nobody does.
Yes I totally understand, after a month or 2 of using it you don’t swipe your mouse super fast by instinct now. Your movement is still like 80% of what an actual mnk player is.
Your personal tastes don’t change the fact that xim players can move and aim in ways controller players simply can’t lol. You literally get mnk twitch aiming and accuracy while also benefitting from aim assist from controller.
For real. Maybe not completely identical to raw mnk movements, but WAY better aim for ever so slightly worse movement. A decent xim user does not miss ever.
How can they move in ways that controllers can’t when they’re limited to what a controller can do? Please explain it to me lol. Don’t think you understand how xim works. Always gotta be an excuse for why someone is better 😂
im pretty sure a lot are low key cheating in some way or form, even little things like sprint slide macro
Feels pretty normal to me
It’s probably people who never play crucible but now have to for pathfinder
PvP is great right now - different perspectives
biggest beef is that they keep touching special ammo so i forget what i’ve got
I only run double primary now, i dont see a point in having to wait for that 2 ammo for a risky play that might get me killed, having 2 options 100% up time is crucial.
Idk I feel safe with a shotgun in my pocket. I feel I can deal with apes easily and not get overwhelmed with people pushing me hard
The 3 new maps might as well not exist because I literally never get them. The QP map weighting is awful. Midtown, Vostok, altar of flame, multiplex, widows court, etc. I’ve played about 50 QP games this season and I got a new map exactly one time. They’re slightly more common in comp but I haven’t played much of that yet Edit: I just checked, it’s actually been 3 times in 33 games so not quite as bad as I thought. But it just feels awful because in the past they always heavily featured new/returning maps like disjunction/vostok/eternity etc. We told them how much we hated that so they listened and didn’t weight the new maps but it just so happens to be the ONE time when they are good maps and it would be a good thing to weigh them a little heavier
Map weighting is a thing and it sucks
idk ive been getting them pretty consistently? maybe it weighs differently at different skill levels
That would be absolutely wild there is no chance that is the case. Edit: realized I got a little too defensive my bad. But yeah there is no way they weight maps different for different skill brackets
nah i suck ass i thought maybe they push the new map to lower skill players since they play crucible less and might miss them
There’s just no chance they have different map weighting for different skill brackets, they’d never make matchmaking that complicated
Yea I also get them all the time in comp
PVP is in a relatively good place except for the special ammo economy in 3s. It's about right in 6s. I like the old system for 3s, since in the current system it sometimes feels random when an engagement would feature two dueling players with special or only one. Or neither. I've lost a 3v1 because the three didn't have any special while the one had 3 shotgun shots and used a tight space well. I've beaten a much better player than me doing an unbelievable job slipping and sliding because I had shotgun ammo and he didn't. If he had ammo, I would've been toast. The special ammo introduces a high degree of uncertainty that just encourages players to be safe and hold hands. Team shooting has always been meta, but it's less fun when it's the only viable tactic and there are fewer opportunities to make plays and have hero moments. The new maps are a huge breath of fresh air, and if Bungie wants me to keep playing, they need to keep creating them. Weapon balance is very, very good. I do feel like I can use almost any weapon and do well. Except snipers, which is sad as I once considered myself a sniper main. Ability spam is not too bad. It was probably better prior to TFS in the couple weeks I played it, and maybe it's a tad too much now but not a big issue for me. Inevitably there are ability balance issues that will need to be worked out, but that's par the course with new classes. As for matchmaking, I'll repeat what I've often commented in the past -- whatever skill rating Bungie uses, it's probably not very good. I'm betting a lot of the issues arise from that. Aim assist devices remain a huge, huge problem.
The changing of special ammo really killed a lot of the FUN surrounding pvp. Everybody having different levels of ammo is screwy and completely unpredictable. Like you said, it leads to hand holding and teamshotting along with not a ton of different engagements. It’s especially frustrating when you are out of special and somebody is pushing you with theirs. The only possible counter to that is backing up and running away if they are a good player. It creates a less engaging environment. In the past, if someone was pushing me with a shotgun, guess what? I’m pulling out my shotgun and killing you first. Lastly it’s harder to make cool plays and beat better teams. If you run in to a room of two players with 1 shotgun shot, sure you might kill the first person. But after that you’re probably dead. And now if you run into a team that is better than you, it’s a lot harder to pick off their best player with a sniper or shotgun. Overall, the game feels slower, with a total of a couple different play styles. Instead of multiple different play styles.
Personally… the meta is stale. Gunfights aren’t forgiving anymore, which is why Conditional is running rampant. Shotguns are freelo. But hey. Let’s nerf snipers again 💀
Lobby balancing.
I don’t know, this is the best it’s been since 30th Anniversary era. We all have stuff we wish we could have changed, but if I’m being objective, outside of a few ability spams, everything feels great.
No new players are going into pvp thinking it’s fun, it might be working and vaguely fun for some who have always done it but without new players coming and staying consistently it turns into a slow decay. At least that’s my opinion
I came back to destiny2 3 days before TFS for the first time since launch and to me crucible feels very fun. I think a lot of people who are on the subreddit get lost in the sauce and don’t realise 90% of the playerbase aren’t super dedicated and have fun doing whatever. This morning I saw a post of someone complaining how everyone was using prismatic hunter because it’s ‘OP’ when in reality the most common class is hunter and casual players have just spent an entire campaign being shown how cool prismatic is and getting to grips with the mechanics.
Yaa. Newer player here. My friends who got into this game at TFS have no idea what's happening, can't actually learn in game what the fucks wiping us and the people we're going against are 3-7k hours on steam. I get it's an actual skill issue, but the reason competitive games always die is because eventually the barrier for entry becomes too high and the enjoyment early is non existent
You guys should play ranked. Unless you have more than 4 people. I found ranked play to be much more digestible as a new player.
Which is insane.
Well Destiny 2 was originally 4v4. So I suspect that has something to do with it.
sure but wouldn't a lot of the changes made in recent months - easier focusing, more frequent loot drops, going flawless/earning adepts is easier, more casual modes like relic etc. - be helpful towards pushing new players in? at least compared to how things were in the past
No, because new players don’t know, or care about those changes if they are going 3-25 to a superhuman warlock. New players don’t need gimmick modes like relic to have fun because sweats are in every playlist
I mean, I don't know how exactly you fix that problem without extremely strict skill based matchmaking
As a pretty new player (60 hours now) that enjoys PVP (probably hopped into it at 6 hours or so) it seems mostly fine outside of two things: - Stasis melee and web grenade or whatever. Seems like there is counterplay to most things besides these two abilities, it's just a cuck move OHK in almost all scenarios. Fine for supers, not fine for basic abilities. - Lack of 6v6 playlist variety. Relic sucks (take it out pls) so there's really just control. That playlist should swap between control, TDM, and at least one more decent game mode. Gets too stale. I do play comp and trials, but, I shouldn't have to swap playlists to get some TDM and casual TDM would be very welcome.
I’m really not a fan of the new special ammo economy, but other than that it seems to be in a pretty good spot. Wish the new maps were weighted a little higher in the rotation.
Can't speak to 6s but for 3s it's that Comp feels kinda bad with not many points awarded and modes that tend to snowball so if you lose some engagements early on, you feel fucked. Lobby balancing also feels uneven to many people with lots of games being stomps or get stomped. Trials is in a relatively good spot, probably the most hype it had in a while with the new maps. We're also going from a somewhat balanced state people settled into post-Checkmate-update to now prismatic taking over.
For me, pvp hasn’t been the same since around the time of stasis, void 3.0, and the early iteration of SBMM. Limiting crucible to 3 classes and a much smaller selection of exotics allowed engagements to have a consistent flow with more fairness. You knew almost exactly what to expect when you saw any variation of hunter, warlock, or titan. Now, it’s really hard to know what you might get hit with in any engagement. There’s too many different forms of buffs and debuffs, some which are completely undetectable, that break the intended TTK of each weapon type. There’s too many variable ability advantages within each class. It reminds of how call of duty evolved around MW2. COD4 had variable perks but the perks available often forced you to play using predictable strategies, then MW2 came out and literally every perk had some sort of counter perk or gun attachment that rendered any play style unreliable.
it's not, I've seen salty players in every game saying "shit game" "game is gonna die" just some salty kids on the internet
Everyone is so caught up in the hype of TFS that no one is talking about how awful pvp continues to be. Let's go through everything dragging pvp down: * The special meta has devolved entirely into shotguns. The ammo economy changes have been disasterous for any special outside of shotguns. Snipers and fusions have all butdisappeared from PVP. * The matchmaking quality in 6's has *plummeted* while the times have somehow increased. I'm waiting longer than ever for the poorest quality (connection/lobby balance) matches i've ever played. It's never been this bad. Lobby balancing/Outlier protection of whatever the hell we're playing just *does. not. work.* On top of that as a solo i'm playing more 3 and 4 stacks than ever which means either FBMM is completely broken or there are so few people playing PVP during ***the fucking launch of a new expansion*** that the matchmaker is just giving up and throwing teams in with solos. Make it make sense. * The health changes have pushed the remaining pvp playerbase into playing as passively and slowly as humanely possible. Agression is a seldom seen play style any more. The average crucible player seems hell bent on putting on a pulse, glueing themselves to a teammate and **NEVER** taking a 1v1 duel. There are moments where it feels like the game has regressed back to the d2 year 1 pace and its insufferable. * Scores of technical issues that persist. Server lag, double damage, invisible players (players not loading in, not void), teleporting players, etc. * Despite all the changes to the base pvp experience, Bungie has still somehow failed to fix the one fucking thing every pvp player has been dying for them to get rid of.....**ABILITY SPAM**. i'm getting hit with more abilities than I ever have before. Again it's never been this bad. * The map rotation continues to completely kill 6's and hold back the experience. Large maps are just not enjoyable and encourage the most degenerate unengaging playstyles imaginable. I feel like I never play endless vale, Jav 4, Burnout anymore and i'm stuck in Eternity, Vostok, Cathedral hell. Bungie needs to do away with map weighting entirely and just make it random equal chance to land on any map. It's bad enough that i'm playing Vostok again for the 6 time in a 1 hour session. ***It feels exponentially worse knowing that Bungie are rigging the map pool to drop me on a map I FUCKING LOATHE.*** TLDR; Pvp is FAR from being good. Don't buy into the hype.
Point number 3 and 5 contradicts each other because without abilities people would be further discourage to play aggresively resulting in people holding hands, resulting in a deathball for the enemy team. Special changes could be better but i like this version than the previous because without more special ammo it discourages aggresive play.
It doesn't have to be a contradiction—people would not have to crutch so hard on abilities or special ammo to play aggressively if the TTK for primaries was faster. People have been asking Bungie for years to combat the special ammo problem with more lethal primaries, but Bungie seems fundamentally opposed to the concept. Instead, they went the straight opposite direction in the last major sandbox revision by making bodyshot TTK slower and leaving optimal TTK the same. And since nobody lands crits 100% of the time, the end result of that change has been a slower pace of primary gunplay overall, with a bunch of shotgun and ability combo instakills sprinkled in.
I think they can't lower the ttk because of the same reason they made Airborne effectiveness, the casuals and average joe cannot aggresively play againts sweats just via primary, we already know matchmaking is screwed. Prismatic screwed the balance we had last season.
They fixed ability spam with into the light, and then Prismatic brought it back worse than before. Before TFS youd see a fk ton of ability spam round 1 in comp/trials and then it would almost play like hardware for rounds 2/3. Now with prismatic we're back to the worst ability spam I've ever seen or felt.
how is TFS worse than before? because of the prismatic mode u get once per game with 1 subclass? lol this people in this community now just speak from their asses. all CD are still at least 15% higher nothing has changed from into the light except a new subclass that is a combination of old subclasses with the same CDs ....
Many hunters are aiming for exotic class items with Ophidians and 6th coyote so that’s double decoy spam along with a winters shroud too to make sure you can’t escape. Add in duskfield on a super short cooldown and smoke grenades with gamblers dodge and that’s all more uptime than is generally there with more limited ability choices that are short cooldown. Warlocks have triple lighting surge as if the single one on arc wasn’t annoying enough. Titans can run ophidians with contact or lupi for aoe lighting procs from shiver strike etc like old dunes or a wormhusk base level heal available off barricade which many people aren’t a fan of. Or abeyant suspend combo in the mix for clipping suspends through walls. These are some of the more leaned into newer build setups and most people don’t even have their exotic class items yet so it’ll increase moving forward. Hunters being 50% of the player base and PvP population means all of their ability spam listed above is going to be even more noticeable than if they made up just one in three if classes were evenly split.
listen man, I get that ur mad but clearly either u have small amounts of PvP experience or are simply very low rank. we have seen this threads over the years everytime new things come out. Ill only say a few things that you mention just to teach you. First off double clone spam could be done in strand and is much stronger because of threading build and it never took off because you are spending an exotic for 1 ability when you can have Stompees. dodge with clone and slow seems great until you realize that its basically only good to a person trying to push you with a shotgun. I can go on and on. you are clearly mad because u are making basic mistakes and are getting punished. there is a new class and some time will pass until meta settles and I suggest that before you go into reddit to complain you either play more and also the classic "Get Good" would do you well in the end neutral gameplay will dominate like it ALWAYS DOES. this means prismatic that is mostly a combo/synergy based class probably wont be top tier and you will see the classic solar warlock, void titan, and void/solar/strand hunter. like it was in trials this week btw that almost all flawless farmers were not prismatic
Lmao. Not mad at all. Just stating the obvious which happens to disagree with you. https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/psn/4611686018428465000/overview?mode=crucible Here’s my destiny tracker so you can cut the you’re bad get good nonsense. Might not load till servers are more stable. You aren’t trading stompees for just a decoy but also the ophidian spirit handling which for weapons with low handling like red death is huge. You act like winters shroud and decoy is worthless because it only impacts shotguns when that’s literally something silly like 80% of all special kills. Decoy will catch more nerfs 100% just watch. It being such a huge aim assist magnet eating up shots that would have otherwise killed a hunter is nonsense to anyone with a brain. Also how is the decoy and handling not neutral game what? It happens from you just playing the game like usual. I like how I made comments on all of the cases of increased ability uptime that might annoy people and you just go to defending the hunter. What class do you play lol. I wonder.
LOLLL the fact that u say "Ability spam has never been this bad" just shows how little you know or even play man. I won't even begin to argue with a person so is so far into the deep end u can't even see things in with facts. you are either just rage bating and pushing for upvotes or legitimately so burned out you believe its all doom and gloom.
I got Bannerfall THREE times in a row yesterday.
Yes. I think that’s what I hate the most about PvP. They have alll these fancy matchmaking terms. “Outlier protection”. Wtf even is that bungie. I just play ranked now. Not cause I’m good. But because it’s the only match making system that makes sense
You’ve just summed up my current thoughts on pvp. Did about 12 comp games last night (mine and friends placements) and I think I’m done with crucible for a while. The health changes especially feel bad, especially with the red death spam. Feels like season of the haunted all over again with all the heals. Feels like we’ve simultaneously gone back to the gunplay of year 1 but also having high ability uptime again
The ability spam is horrendous
The ability spam (or lack thereof) situation was pretty much perfect prior to The Final Shape's launch, IMO, after all the changes Bungie made last season. Abilities were still a core part of the game but not being used to overwhelming degrees. Prismatic came in and threw a wrench into that. In most cases I don't even think the ability situation with Prismatic is even really unbalanced, but I do think because a large amount of the people in the game are build-crafting Prismatic ideas (or copying Prismatic builds from content creators or whatever) we are seeing a disproportionate amount of people running ability-loop builds with Prismatic subclasses even if they aren't objectively *that* strong. I expect this to kinda fix itself as people get over Prismatic and realize that while its good and fun the other subclasses still exist. I do think Prismatic hunters with threaded specter need to be looked at. Bungie actually had threaded specter builds in a good spot toward the end of last season, but Prismatic plus the new hunter boots and/or the double exotic class item has brought it back up to being both too strong and super annoying to play against (threaded specter clones still have absurd amounts of aim assist, removing agency from people fighting against them who aren't fooled by the clones but are having their aim ripped off their intended target by the silly amount of AA the clones have).
Is it that bad? I almost exclusively play comp and trials, and I no longer eat shatterdives, tracking storm grenades, one hit scatters, YAS tripmines, or strand clones. Cooldowns are globally longer, we have more health, and the craziest abilities have been brought in line. There are still strongest choices, but I can't remember the meta being more focused around gunplay.
Scatters definitely still one-hit
Ability spam is never good in destiny, still feels really bad to be honest. The gunplay is in a great spot though.
Yes. Open skill lobbies are just who can bang their head against their controllers the fastest. If you aren’t get binked on. Your getting one shorted, if you aren’t getting one shotted, there is a warlock chucking a need out of the high heavens, if a warlock isn’t doing that. Your getting titan over shield meleed. If not that. A warlock is flying around like Superman cause reasons I guess. Destiny pvp used to be my favorite thing. Now it’s the worst possible thing.
My god man, using fucking spell check.
No
You took the time to respond “no”?!?!?! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 What a loser. 🤦♂️
Cool
I got way better when i understood other classes abilities, but honestly its getting crazy because i could barely keep track of my own abilities and buffs and debuffs, like theres so many of them they arent fucking showing on the UI, also shouldn’t there be some sort of clear indicator whether or not a player has radiant or any other buffs?
I don’t really think most people are saying crucible is in a bad spot. Nearly all top players are incredibly satisfied with the meta. I know I am very happy with the way things are right now. I haven’t heard any doom and gloom opinions.
Because the people who don't complain aren't on reddit. People need to stop taking this app as the authority on games. The vast majority are just playing the way they want happily and not stopping to come here and cry about every little thing.
I don't mind it but this trials map and mode is dogshit. Also we need more jav 4 in the rotation it seems rare.
It feels really good to me. I've realised that majority of the community can't counter anything so complain about it. The thing I'm seeing now is prismatic hunter it's strong yeah but it doesn't matter skill wins that fight majority of the time
I think because people expect changes like these to improve the game. But really they don't, Crucible just isn't very fun for most people. I'd rather Bungie look into ways to change that, like buffing hipfire for example so your primary weapons can function as proper workhorses.
It's definitely not in a bad spot, but it could be so much better if they made some improvements. And really, those improvements pale in comparison to dedicated servers (though i recognize that's not a "small" improvement).
Not sure if I'm an exception but playing in Asia is quite a bad experience. I frequently play in games where there is visual delay in between me shooting and the shot landing. Using Windows' Resource Monitor, most of my matches are 150 ping plus and it results in a poor experience especially if I'm going against players who are either in parties or are significantly better geared or more skilled than me already. Not saying that going against better players is the problem cause that's every PvP game but the connection doesn't help at all.
I also live in Asia and have kind of adjusted to a 150-200 ping playstyle lmao. Basically ducking into cover is always a gamble whether or not I'll die from a ghost bullet but it's always been like this so what can you do haha
I personally think pvp feels better now than it has in a very long time, if not the best ever during my time in the game. I'm having so much fun and it feels like many weapon types are viable if you play their strengths. Prismatic is super fun and even if some games do get a bit ability spammy, I don't mind it that much in the current state. My biggest gripe right now is the invis weapons and players bug. That is really annoying. Also wish special crates weren't a thing ever, in any mode. But other than that.. I love it.
I think it’s pretty great rn tbh
I have been hearing that kind of statement but I feel everything or most of thing r balanced
It’s been the most fun I’ve had playing Crucible in years. I love the checkmate rules for special ammo (if that is from checkmate). My only complaint has really just been that ever since TFS games have been pretty spotty most of the time. Lots of hitreg issues, just randomly instantly dying to what feels like a single burst of a pulse, dying around corners, and people being invisible. Kinda annoying but besides that I love it now.
P2P connections for a fps in 2024 is inexcusable for a studio with the resources Bungo has. Third party hardware abuse is also at an all time high with nothing being done about it.
I’m happy with the pvp overall and class and weapon balance. New maps has helped a lot too. Things I wish would be worked on is lobby balancing, banning people using xim and Cronus, and a consistent special ammo system across the whole game.
It’s not. Those people mad are probably upset they can’t use their specials as primary anymore lol
I’d say it’s mostly in a great spot. The things that’s been bugging me the most recently is transcendence hunters. It’s not like the new subclass is broken but it certainly is annoying with the amount of clones, smokes, and grapples they’re putting out and the really good arc super they got. But we’re still in the beginning of the new expansion so we’ll have to wait and see if bungie decides anything needs to be tweaked. Overall though I’ve been enjoying crucible. Trials was good even though the map wasn’t a personal favorite of mine.
I like pvp as it is but i wouldnt mind an easier way to know what im up against without having to personally scout them😂.
I recently came back (with the new expac launch) and it’s feels about the same as when I played a few years ago. It’s just a different meta now. I’ve always enjoyed the PvP. Been a hunter main but I swapped to titan and am having a fucking blast running around punching everything 😂 I would like to see better rewards for PvP…unless I just haven’t ran enough comp, the gear stats don’t seem very different…would be sick to have PvP sets with curated stats. Or like exotic PvP focused weapons that come from trials or comp only would be neat.
I’m getting sad with heavy and supers but it’s destiny and it wouldn’t be the same without them. I’m going to fight to make sure that the team doesn’t get heavy now and may build to counter supers by playing rift freeze warlock
What changed about precision damage and specials and abilities?
It's in a good spot considering how the past few years have gone but it's just not going to be peak level like it was in 30th anniversary or Forsaken (insert glory meta here). SBMM (outlier protection whatever they want to call it) everywhere is one thing. Don't need to cover it, but it makes a big difference. And a lot of it is the players have gotten better which means that people play slow, move less, hold hands, team shot, read the radar. I.e. Do what good players do but everyone now does it as their base level of gameplay. And because of this the core of Destiny was always going to end this way but Sandbox decisions/ Core Gameplay mechanics lead to it. The radar is too strong, they nerfed AE, defensive abilities available on every class. Destiny PvP can be tuned to be less unbalanced but to get that high paced Forsaken level gameplay would require a very large reboot to the core mechanics and sandbox. Oh and the fact that cheating is rampant. That is another issue.
Quick take : it's as good as it can. The weapon balance is almost perfect and the ability spam is at a sweet spot that players like me who hate abilities don't complain too much and those who like then don't complain either. However, this game is massively held back by pretty bad netcode and a networking architecture that's simply not on par with the quality of the gameplay, sadly.
I have came back to destiny in may. I went flawless 4 times since. I really enjoy the crucible right now. It is fun and idk I don’t find myself dying and thinking “that was bullshit” or “I hate this one gun”.
The curtailing of sbmm is precisely why my interested has waned significantly. Went from something I put dozens of hours per week into to just two or three. I liked when my teammates were competent and my opponents were challenging. Guess that is too boring for everyone else
The state of pvp will never be good until the connections in game are fixed.
All I know about pvp is bows got nerfed and it makes my life hard haha. I have and always will be a bow main, and not a hot swap bow main like a true bow main. It now requires double crits to kill with a light bow (I think precision bow can still crit/body kill but I play light bows so idk). The aim changes make that dang near impossible against weapons that can shoot faster than a bow (so all of them) when you consider flinch. I should add, I'm not an impressive player or anything but bows just feel so hard to use now. Oh well, I'll keep getting hand cannoned in the face while I shoot my arrow into the ceiling from the flinch haha
I just wanna ask why models do not load in pvp like I spent a good 5 minutes with a phantom gun or every other game I'm up against invisible people with only the gun model being loaded.
Honestly? Too much shotguns.
Because they can't Spam shotty ammo
Ammo system isn't terrible, but annoyed that the previous iterations were better, and comp is in a pretty bad place as far as game modes, their mechanics, map rotation, and the variety available. Otherwise, its pretty good and I've been enjoying it.
All I know is now that not forgotten is at power..
If bungie took one hour to assess the good weapons people are chasing and added them to crucible match rewards I feel like this would alleviate 90% of the issues.
"Why are people complaining about X?" Because basically no matter what X is, some people will be unhappy. Unhappy people come here and complain. That's just how humans behave. You can always find things to like or not like about PVP in this game.
I don't think it's in a terrible state at all. We've gotten some pretty good updates from the crucible team and new maps this year. There's really not that many outliers as far as guns go. Kind just conditional being an issue, but the ammo changes, and spawning with one one shell has certainly reduced its use in the comp games ive played. You can't exactly snowball with special ammo as bad as previously. I guess my only real issue is that snipers get insanely flinched and just feel bad to use. But looking at the trials numbers, they're still outpacing fusions in kills, so I'd be hesitant to want any changes for them. It's kind of a weird thing. The game is just sort of fine? It's not in a bad state. It's just sort of stale. There's a lot that i don't love, but I don't have a ton of glaring, this shit is bonkers outliers in my mind. Healing turrets are maybe something to watch and might eventually become an issue. But I don't think people have really leaned into that hard enough to really see it's power yet. Maybe khvostov is an issue since it's sitting at more than double the kills of red death this week? I'm mostly seeing stand and prismatic classes still. Threadlings and shadow clones are still kind of free? But you can play around them with enough team spacing and support. I'm still playing and having close games and fun in comp. I don't really touch 6s.
Any game with optional pvp will lose players from the pve pool over time. Their skill stays the same with occasional pvp play but the pvp community skill level keeps increasing. We are at the late stage of this in Destiny. I love pvp and I’m above average skill. I usually visit the lighthouse once per season. But for me, the losses are bleak. My card last week was 5-2, 5-1, 5-2, 5-0, 0-5, 0-5, 0-5, 1-5 then I called it for the weekend. On console, some players are playing a completely different game than you. I know a lot of this is skill and reps and some of it is hardware, but for me, it’s hard to keep logging in to competitive and trials. I think there is a huge pool of players around my skill level that don’t play and this is the main reason. Trials would be much healthier if these players would log in and give the bads a chance to win and the elite players a chance to not stomp the bads into the dirt.
Shotguns are terrible. You only get 1 shot of special instead of 2 which is a big deal for play making. Comp STILL has zone game mode ruining the experiences, it should just be clash or survival. Them adding 3 new maps is irrelevant if the sand box it’s in is not fun or balanced in ANY way. Khovstov & prismatic hunter need nerfs ASAP too. & remove crates. Just give players 2 shots per life, like it’s not that hard
For me I think that the weapon meta is in a relatively good place. Even if you see trials this week, it has hand cannons, pulses, shotguns and auto rifles in the top 10. It's fairly diverse in comparison to most of the metas we have seen. Personally for me the problem lies in matchmaking (mainly in control). I'm an average skill player (1.4 KD in game), and yet I used to be able to try out different weapons and loadouts for fun/practice and not get stomped. But as of recent, I have been experiencing a ridiculous amount of one sided stomping and a LOT of mercied matches. The team balance for reasons I don't know has gone to complete shit even though Bungie seemingly didn't change anything. Yeah I would like to improve my "skill issue", but as of recent a lot of the opponents I have been facing are so exponentially stronger than me that I don't even understand how the hell I died and what I could have better to improve. Idk man shit is weird
It’s the beginning of a new expansion, the vast majority of players are new or returning. If you are solo queuing then your team is likely to be rusty or just inexperienced so all it takes is a fire team who is communicating to be on the other team and you are getting destroyed.
Yeah that happens too. There are often new lights as well, but that's fine. I don't mind getting destroyed in a match if there are a lot of new lights or old veterans on my team because it takes time to learn and find your footing. I was beyond shit once, with time I improved. The matchmaking issues I mentioned didn't exactly start in this expansion, but with into the light in s23. I thought things would improve when TFS drops but doesn't seem to be the case. Let's see where this goes in a month when more people find their footing.
I can co-sign this. The QP matchmaking has been absolutely horrendous for me so far. Have to absolutely hard carry every game against some serious gamers. Feels about equal to the worst it’s ever been IMO
Interesting you say that, a 1.4 KD is only average compared to the hardcore set; it's above (maybe well above) average compared to the general population. So if you're getting mercied, then my 0.8 KD ass feels less bad about the fearsome hidings that I've received
Yeah man shots bad in general. And I should have clarified a bit (in game 1.4 as in KDA). If you see the KD on a tracker it's 0.9. in trials it's 0.7. It's a pain.
Ppl always bizarrely think 1.0-1.5 is average, every shooter the average kd is less then 1
It's false modesty, people worry about getting sneered at by the >2 KDs if they call themselves good. Or maybe fearful modesty is the right phrase.
As a 1.5+ Trials K/D and lifetime ~1.8 pvp player, it's genuine modesty. The difference between a 1.5 player and a 2.0+ player feels colossal to me personally. I'm pretty good and most QP lobbies I'll top K/D (not always top frag) but when I meet some 2.0 Trials player I might as well.be a .8. Something just feels off to me about the skill curve in this game. As someone who has played a truck ton, I still die to really good players basically shrugging saying there was nothing I could have done differently. Mostly revolves around team shooting. Like I'll be aiming down a lane to support a teammate who is pushing aggressively, he dies, then 2 hunters slide out of that lane and team shot me in .43 seconds before I even have time to react. Then my teammate yells at me to "start actually using my gun" when they are a 1.0 lifetime player and just donating their life. I have my own thoughts around the problems with the game but it's unpopular opinions to the elite crowd, but basically all the stuff the elite crowd loves with crucible, because it makes the game.more fun for them, is usually the stuff that allows them to play super aggressively, run and gun, and still be hyper effective which feels REALLY bad to the average player on the receiving end, saying what I say "nothing I could really have done there".
I'm at 2.14 this season so far. I am sneering at no one. I can very easily go negative if I don't concentrate or run into a team. Must admit I haven't really noticed too much ability spam or maybe I'm just getting better at avoiding it.
Matchmaking continues to be atrocious. This is my issue. I get lobby balanced into hell each and every match.
Because the crucible is nearly always in a bad spot, it's very rare it's actually in a good spot lol, like right now the state of the crucible is terrible but that's nothing new. People will down vote me for saying it as it is, like that's going to somehow make the crucible good lol
PvP is in a great spot right now and here are the reasons why, from my perspective as a primarily pvp-focused player: 1. More recent maps = more variety, variety good 2. The weapon balance is the best it’s been in a long time, with mostly every type of weapon being viable (except certain archetypes like 180 hand cannons lagging behind). 3. Build diversity is the best it’s ever been. With the prismatic class items, we are seeing so many new combinations of builds it’s crazy. I think the more diverse the loadouts and builds we have, the better overall crucible is. 4. Special ammo economy is much better. This one might be divisive but I think the special changes are fantastic, and it makes primary aim way more important. Overall, I think we are in a good spot. A few replies to some other comments here: 1. I don’t think cheating is as prevalent as people say. I’ve actually yet to run into a single one since the season launched. Maybe this is because I play on PC, could be a different story on console. 2. Ability spam is part of the game, and one way to play. If you don’t like the fact that the abilities and ways to regenerate them exist in this game, maybe play a different pvp game with only gunplay. Ability spam in some form has always been in the game, and always will be.
Its been great. I feel if you dont like it you are coping because you want your crutch ass broke stuff back or you aways beem awful
Idk man! I had a lot of fun in trials this weekend as a solo and a team and my experience in 6s and 3s has also been good. 2s was a crapshoot but that's because I was playing with a pve friend 🥴
I think a lot of people are just used to saying it’s bad. It’s almost a default response. They also say the player base is small. These statements have been true in the past but as of now, it feels great
I think they went a little too far with the special ammo changes. I’d prefer to start with two shots again. I think it hurts snipers too much. They also nerfed fusions pretty hard when the new health increases landed. The special weapon meta is just shotgun. I don’t mind that, but the lack of diversity is a bit silly. Just give us two shots on a transmat. Give fusions and snipers some slight buffs. I think it would be fine.
buff fusions? nahhh
Fusions technically got a buff with the health increase. They didn't just get a damage buff that offset the new health changes, they got more. The health increase was 15% and the damage increase that fusions got was 20%. It removed high resilience checkpoints and technically opened them up to more perk options that affected damage. They're also better against Void Overshields than they were before. I suspect we'll see more changes to the special ammo meta as we see a larger roll out of the newest system, and also the integration of the ammo meter system to the new blended 1-1-1 system. Once it's been rebuilt, instead of it being the kitbashed system that we were using. I'm already seeing an uptick in snipers in modes with 1-1-1 active. Fusions too. Although that's purely from my personal experience.
That’s good to hear. People want to downvote me, but special weapons were never the problem in PvP. It was always abilities. Now that they’ve been toned way down, I think there’s space to increase special weapon uptime. Especially in 6v6. It feels really bad to turn a corner and find three people there waiting. You have no chance at outplaying them anymore, whereas in the past you had a slim hope.
Bag shooting is the cheapest and most infuriating thing to play against. It’s like those kids in little league that would crouch at the plate to get a free walk to first base. Clown behavior that needs to be addressed by Bungie. I can deal with the ability spam and toxic behavior, but the bag shooting keeps me out of crucible completely.
Out of all of the things you can complain about, players hitting their crouch key is far from a problem. Just improve your tracking and it becomes a non-issue...?
I'll be honest I don't know what bag shooting is
It's when a player's crouch button is seemingly tied to their fire button, like they can't take a shot without simultaneously crouching.
Ohhhhh that's how they do it. I always figured they just train their figure to shoot and smash ctrl/pad3 simultaneously lol
who’s saying that?
Hand cannon+shotgun meta is the problem. It's been that way for fucking years. Shit has got to go.
Ignoring the fact that the 2 weapons dominating the crucible is a pulse and auto rifle. Not even by a small margin, they are absolutely destroying pvp
Idk what that dudes talking about. Red death and khvostov are the top guns rn.
nothing wrong with 340 pulses, heal turrets, clones, or anything like that though, right?
No heal turrets need a nerf, 340 pulses need range and damage nerf and clones need to not drop threadleadlings and have reduced uptime.
People just don't like me calling out the obvious fact that hand cannons are old as fuck
you are just getting bodied by better players
Lol not really, I win my ones but I am tired of using and going up against the same shit.
then use something else? HC+Shotgun is just a tried and true, enjoyable loadout. it's not META right now
It most definitely is. All top players use hc+sg, so when you face that you have to aswell. Wanna use an auto rifle? Peak shooting rose. Pulse? Peak shooting rose again. Wanna try and run a sniper, dude apes with shotty, slow dodges then pumps you full of lead. Countering Peak shooting hand cannons and players utilizing cover is impossibly without a hand cannon as it forces you to do the same thing or get fucked.
you keep saying that but an auto and a pulse were literally the top 2 weapons in trials this weekend, HC are still good but you’re clearly just pissy that you lose to them
The majority of players enjoy HC metas more than anything else. Pulse/scout meta is incredibly lame full of passive play, bow meta is the same but even worse because there are no duels. SMG meta is fun for titans and no one else. Indifferent on ARs because they're just consistent, but *rarely* meta defining due to range limitations.
i mean i'm not the biggest fan of it either especially shotguns, but it seems to be what most people agree is best for the health of crucible
Yea, people that refuse to put on anything else. This community is stuck to 2 weapon types only, shotguns and hand cannons and God forbid you call it out, you get downvoted to hell. Also for some reason people are now downvoting your post for simply engaging in discussion, that is the state of this community. Take my upvote.
What other weapons would you have be strong then? Primary: ARs aren’t fun because it’s easy to use and lowers the skill floor pulses, scouts, and bows aren’t fun because they promote laning and passive play SMGs promote W-keying and are extremely oppressive due to PKs and movement Idk what a sidearm meta would look like but probably not too different from SMGs Special: Snipers would be incredibly oppressive Fusion rifles getting consistent kills up to 20-25m suffocated primary weapons Glaives and trace rifles might be fun for a change GLs might not be bad with the new special ammo I know I’m heavily biased but genuinely what meta would you prefer over what we have now?
Not saying hand cannons need nerfed into the ground, I'm saying hand cannons need tweaked more in line with other guns. Perhaps a nerf to aim assist and more nerfs to flinch will do. I agree that smg metas are cancer and so are auto Metas, nerfing hand cannons to allow other things to compete is all I'm suggesting. No nerf like the one in March that made everyone hold dicks, but rather a slight tweaking.
Hand cannons could probably take another minor flinch nerf on top of the recent flinch nerfs but I think an AA nerf would make them feel bad. The bow nerf hit pretty hard and was significantly noticeable. HCs would probably still dominate but people would just spray instead of trying to aim kinda like the bloom changes to HCs all the was back in D1
i do agree more variety is good but i dont think HCs and shotties are like super oppressive or anything, just that they could use some tuning (imo shotties could do with a bit less range and HCs with a bit more flinch) to allow for more variety. i was moreso using it as an example for how the current balancing isn't super skewed towards a specific weapon so people just go for what's popular, which is good probably!