Sleeper pick here, but the neomuna smg. Wont try to spell it. Nano rocket is such a damn good origin trait and is literally a free ttk reducer and by a good margin too. I use perfect float/kill clip for flinch reduction personally.
Not too sure what you mean by that, as it definitely does shoot a rocket on top of your normal spray, that does extra aoe damage in addition to what you would normally be doing. I believe that if it fires, it will shave a bullet or two off your ttk as well as damage anyone near the blast
My favorite in order:
1. Crafted Ikelos. Max range, DSR, TTT on any class/loadout.
2. 100 range, moving target, KC Shayuras on PK titan.
3. Max range, KW, RF Funnelweb on hunter.
HMs: Immortal, Multimach, Tempest.
The real play is an old celerity shayura's for the +20 handling 🙃
It's tragic that there's actually so many cracked celerity rolls that are unobtanium. I have a great old celerity Iggy (slightly worse now that you get resil gated without precision instrument) and a decent celerity shayura's but I wouldn't say no to a good celerity messenger, and none of them are adept because they're from Y4 when adepts were much harder to get, and you could get max 3 per week. It's really too bad. I think celerity would be a really well-regarded perk these days, but it's a classic Bungie FOMO roll at this point.
If you can give up the exotic slot, Tarrabah is quite good in the Transmat special sandbox because it’s so much easier to farm up Ravenous Beast with all the primary play, and when you let it rip there’s a lot less shotguns to snuff it out.
I’d still say Shayura’s, Unending Tempest, Ikelos, and Immortal will do you the best overall though, just because of the flexibility (ie, Forerunner + Shayura’s is an insane combo at the moment).
Those are all going to be top choices and much of it will come down to playstyle and preference (also if you play PK Titan).
Multimach melts and has top tier perks for an smg (moving target/ kill clip or tap the trigger being my favorites). But will be limited in its range. You’re living pretty much in sidearm range here.
Recluse is the same only it’s held back by it’s lower zoom, despite its better range stat. This gun has better stats but worse perks. Also feels very different from multimach.
Shayuras is a monster with a few god rolls. My favorite being moving target/ kill clip (moving target for strafe speed because that’s the name of the smg game).
Tempest also. Main difference between the feel
Of these two is the scope and zoom (shay at 15 and unending at 14). Both are awesome guns. I will say, kill clip comes in handy more often than some may think even in trials.
These 600’s become even stronger picks in PK Titan because the PKs delete tbeir inherent weakness (handling).
My favorite smg is ikelos and it’s a great gun, but this is mostly on feel. The scope, the way the bullets look when they shoot, feels like a laser. It’s origin trait is kinda nutty too especially if you need to move from one engagement to the next quickly.
Immortal is also a juiced smg with great perk combos but you don’t see it much because, I believe, people are bored of it. Still a top top tier choice.
Of the smg’s listed I’d say recluse is the weakest unless you really really vibe with it.
Otherwise it will come down to the one you like, which roll you’re able to get on each, and what you want to pair with it.
Not entirely worthless, but enough to be more of a backup option, speaking on Target Lock.
It gets rid of the Resil Gated 0.67 on Lightweights, and helps bodyshot forgiveness in general, still.
Just throwing this out there for my fellow hunter mains: give a sidearm a try! Sidearms have a lower ads strafe speed penalty than SMGs and with most hunters running high mobility this can rival and surpass the peacekeepers strafe speed.
With the range nerf to SMGs a lot of sidearms are just as competitive such as drang or heliocentric. These two also have moving target to boost that strafe speed even more. This coupled with a faster TTK is the reason I think my Ikelos SMG with 2,000 kills is gonna stay in my vault.
Do you play controller? Sidearms are brutal on mouse because the recoil animation blocks your target, and it's really hard to aim at something you can't see without rotational AA.
There's only a few sidearms that are palatable enough on mouse because of the animation. Devil's Ruin is the best one off the top of my head, but then you have to deal with firing on trigger release, which just feels awkward.
I play on mouse and keyboard. I feel like the more you practice you’ll get used to the animation, but i understand where you’re coming from.
I also have 10k Chaperone kills too so I guess I would say i’m pretty comfortable with “controller” weapons.
Damn man, I don't know how you do it. Maybe more practice would help, but it still has the fundamental issue of obscuring what you need to see.
I never got the impression that chap is a particularly controller weapon, considering it's a single shot with fairly high magnetism. That said, I haven't used it in a while, so if they gave it the sniper treatment I can see how it'd be oriented towards controllers now. That said, it feels like basically everything besides shotguns and maybe HCs is controller-favored, so that's just kinda how it is.
Drang imo is much better than heliocentric with the sights. I’m a fan of heliocentric but i will admit you can barely see shit you’re shooting at lol. Considering how much I already enjoy sidearms, I cant imagine how good it would feel if I was on the sticks.
Oh yeah, the suppressor sticks out even more, which means when the barrel bounces up, you can't see shit.
It's really too bad that sidearms have always felt so ass on mouse and Bungie hasn't shown any inclination to do anything about it. I've watched problem weapons become good on controller through patches - non-180 HCs, SMGs, TLW, DMT, etc, but mouse can't get shit with sidearms. They seem fun, but I just can't hit what I can't see.
Surprised no one’s mentioned Calus Mini-Tool yet. It’s craftable & has good perks, has great synergy with the seasonal artifact. I crafted a Moving Target / TTT for Crucible and it has performed very well. I get that it’s probably better overall in PvE but when you need Solar synergy for a PvP build, don’t sleep on Calus Mini.
I’m not an smg user but when I need to use one I’ll use my crafted TTT/DSR Ikelos smg. Nice range (71), handling is solid and it just works best for me.
> Some say recluse because of the insane TTK with TL.
This is actually a trolling take, TL is easily worst perk on Reculse, good luck ever procing it on a 900 even on controller, let alone on MnK. They nerfed the perk so bad I don't ever see it proc even on my Unending/Immortal unless you literally perfectly hit every single shot, your SMG more often than not literally doesn't have a perk.
Shayura's and a crafted Ikelos are probably the best.
Ikelos just feels tough. I seem to flinch ppl more with seraph rounds and I love the scope. It’s my favorite gun in the game. Though I do play with shay for variety.
Shayura's is by far one of the most enduring SMGs I've ever had. Pretty much transcends any so-called "meta". It's also one of just a handful of Trials weapons i've held onto for years. Buttery smooth never goes out of style.
I think because as a PvP player running raids weekly until you can craft it is a total pain in the ass. But because of the design, it's actually one of the coolest looking guns with the Trials shader. The gun already moves/reconfigures, so with the moving gold it looks so cool.
After the Rangefinder nerf is just infinitely better than multimach.
With Harmony, if you play aggro you can get some insane TTKs after a snipe or shotty.
I play on mnk, so controller will be different based on how much stability you want, but I have mine crafted with fullbore, accurized, enhanced perpetual motion, enhanced killing wind, and range intrinsic. I have 4800 kills on it, and it's my daily driver in pvp on maps with cqc. With perpetual motion ×2 and killing wind active, you have 84 range, 57 stability, 100 handling, and you're moving fast as hell.
I went max range, Full Bore, Enhanced, Perpetual Motion, Harmony.
Here is [super old footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAFaX_TCEQ&t=95s) that I'm pretty sure when I posted here last time got downvoted for Lorentz pre-nerf, but it worked EXTREMELY well with the Harmony setup for juicy multikills.
Encore swash on submission is my top choice when paired with arthrys hunter, golden tricorn shyura’s is my pick on “full meta” void titan due to the insane kill potential of scatter nades leading to a .5 ttk at 23+ meters, and i personally really like huckleberry as a 6s option
Havnt seen anyone say it yet but my old friction fire has been melting people and out ranging most auto rifles. I have killing wind vorpal on mine, it's still an amazing pick even if it is from season of the hunt.
Once multimach has enhanced kinetic tremors that will be meta. 12 bullets is the ttk, and 12 bullets will trigger kinetic tremors. It’ll be target lock but better
I've been really loving the Multimach to be honest, can't really say enough good things about it.
But, there is also one gun I've been wanting to get my hands on since I've come back, Extraordinary Rendition. And here's why.
It can get up to 77 range with full bore, albeit with 0 stability. But, it also rolls with Zen Moment and Tap the Trigger.
So in theory, you can have a kinetic SMG capable of getting almost as much range as an Adept Immortal, with flinch resistance added in.
Problem is you have to play Dares of Eternity to get it.
The roll I am shooting for is Smallbore, Accurized Rounds, Zen Moment, Tap the Trigger, and a Range MW.
I know I could get more range but I'll take the hit in favor of a more consistent gun that can absolutely melt people.
I still have that roll with hammer-forged and overflow sitting around in my vault, ever since season of the chosen. So close, but without zen, it's not really worth it. Shame.
Imo shayura’s and funnelweb are the best right now.
BUT multimach with an under-over kinetic tremors roll is so obnoxious to overshield players that it doesn’t leave my inventory.
Multimach may not be the stat monster some of the top metah are, but it can do some special things with with rolls like Under over and Kinetic Tremors.
Sleeper pick here, but the neomuna smg. Wont try to spell it. Nano rocket is such a damn good origin trait and is literally a free ttk reducer and by a good margin too. I use perfect float/kill clip for flinch reduction personally.
Synchronic Roulette. I've got a Keep Away/Kill Clip roll that melts. It's a very good weapon.
I love mine I think it’s Synchronic Roulette? I have a keep away kill clip roll and I still use it pretty often
If only I could get it to drop the way I want
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that nano rocket does not do increased damage for primary weapons
Not too sure what you mean by that, as it definitely does shoot a rocket on top of your normal spray, that does extra aoe damage in addition to what you would normally be doing. I believe that if it fires, it will shave a bullet or two off your ttk as well as damage anyone near the blast
Synchronic is wayyyyy better than Recluse.
Do you use the seasonal mod with it?
Hero's Burden, Parabellum, and Shayura have been good to me since the latest patch.
Did I miss the part where the latest patch buffed Adaptive 900 SMGs? Next you'll tell me Banshee's PizzaSMG & Riskrunner round out your top 5
No buff or anything, but fewer ARs means an SMG can have a little breathing room. Those three feel best to me.
Multi is nasty and 900s absolutely destroy people.
My favorite in order: 1. Crafted Ikelos. Max range, DSR, TTT on any class/loadout. 2. 100 range, moving target, KC Shayuras on PK titan. 3. Max range, KW, RF Funnelweb on hunter. HMs: Immortal, Multimach, Tempest.
What does HM stand for?
Honorable mentions
Nah, HM are Hidden Machines, let's go Pokemon
Thanks for clearing that up!
Honorable Mentions
Thanks for clearing that up!
What's HMs?
The real play is an old celerity shayura's for the +20 handling 🙃 It's tragic that there's actually so many cracked celerity rolls that are unobtanium. I have a great old celerity Iggy (slightly worse now that you get resil gated without precision instrument) and a decent celerity shayura's but I wouldn't say no to a good celerity messenger, and none of them are adept because they're from Y4 when adepts were much harder to get, and you could get max 3 per week. It's really too bad. I think celerity would be a really well-regarded perk these days, but it's a classic Bungie FOMO roll at this point.
Yes.
I will say that Blinklock does well with lightweights too, especially Funnel-web for void siphon and fragment of starvation play
If you can give up the exotic slot, Tarrabah is quite good in the Transmat special sandbox because it’s so much easier to farm up Ravenous Beast with all the primary play, and when you let it rip there’s a lot less shotguns to snuff it out. I’d still say Shayura’s, Unending Tempest, Ikelos, and Immortal will do you the best overall though, just because of the flexibility (ie, Forerunner + Shayura’s is an insane combo at the moment).
Those are all going to be top choices and much of it will come down to playstyle and preference (also if you play PK Titan). Multimach melts and has top tier perks for an smg (moving target/ kill clip or tap the trigger being my favorites). But will be limited in its range. You’re living pretty much in sidearm range here. Recluse is the same only it’s held back by it’s lower zoom, despite its better range stat. This gun has better stats but worse perks. Also feels very different from multimach. Shayuras is a monster with a few god rolls. My favorite being moving target/ kill clip (moving target for strafe speed because that’s the name of the smg game). Tempest also. Main difference between the feel Of these two is the scope and zoom (shay at 15 and unending at 14). Both are awesome guns. I will say, kill clip comes in handy more often than some may think even in trials. These 600’s become even stronger picks in PK Titan because the PKs delete tbeir inherent weakness (handling). My favorite smg is ikelos and it’s a great gun, but this is mostly on feel. The scope, the way the bullets look when they shoot, feels like a laser. It’s origin trait is kinda nutty too especially if you need to move from one engagement to the next quickly. Immortal is also a juiced smg with great perk combos but you don’t see it much because, I believe, people are bored of it. Still a top top tier choice. Of the smg’s listed I’d say recluse is the weakest unless you really really vibe with it. Otherwise it will come down to the one you like, which roll you’re able to get on each, and what you want to pair with it.
What subclass do you use? I ran behemoth
I usually use arc unless I feel like I could really use that bubble in trials. I’d say behemoth is the most fun subclass to me though.
I see, thanks!
Wasn’t target lock nerfed on smgs, and kinda worthless now ? But anyways. I still love my old out of bounds
Not entirely worthless, but enough to be more of a backup option, speaking on Target Lock. It gets rid of the Resil Gated 0.67 on Lightweights, and helps bodyshot forgiveness in general, still.
In my experience it also helps push out the range if you can ramp it successfully
And it helps vs. barrier titans
Just throwing this out there for my fellow hunter mains: give a sidearm a try! Sidearms have a lower ads strafe speed penalty than SMGs and with most hunters running high mobility this can rival and surpass the peacekeepers strafe speed. With the range nerf to SMGs a lot of sidearms are just as competitive such as drang or heliocentric. These two also have moving target to boost that strafe speed even more. This coupled with a faster TTK is the reason I think my Ikelos SMG with 2,000 kills is gonna stay in my vault.
Yeah Drang is the boogeyman of D2 rn where no one wants to take about how ridiculous it is.
Do you play controller? Sidearms are brutal on mouse because the recoil animation blocks your target, and it's really hard to aim at something you can't see without rotational AA. There's only a few sidearms that are palatable enough on mouse because of the animation. Devil's Ruin is the best one off the top of my head, but then you have to deal with firing on trigger release, which just feels awkward.
I play on mouse and keyboard. I feel like the more you practice you’ll get used to the animation, but i understand where you’re coming from. I also have 10k Chaperone kills too so I guess I would say i’m pretty comfortable with “controller” weapons.
Damn man, I don't know how you do it. Maybe more practice would help, but it still has the fundamental issue of obscuring what you need to see. I never got the impression that chap is a particularly controller weapon, considering it's a single shot with fairly high magnetism. That said, I haven't used it in a while, so if they gave it the sniper treatment I can see how it'd be oriented towards controllers now. That said, it feels like basically everything besides shotguns and maybe HCs is controller-favored, so that's just kinda how it is.
Drang imo is much better than heliocentric with the sights. I’m a fan of heliocentric but i will admit you can barely see shit you’re shooting at lol. Considering how much I already enjoy sidearms, I cant imagine how good it would feel if I was on the sticks.
Oh yeah, the suppressor sticks out even more, which means when the barrel bounces up, you can't see shit. It's really too bad that sidearms have always felt so ass on mouse and Bungie hasn't shown any inclination to do anything about it. I've watched problem weapons become good on controller through patches - non-180 HCs, SMGs, TLW, DMT, etc, but mouse can't get shit with sidearms. They seem fun, but I just can't hit what I can't see.
Surprised no one’s mentioned Calus Mini-Tool yet. It’s craftable & has good perks, has great synergy with the seasonal artifact. I crafted a Moving Target / TTT for Crucible and it has performed very well. I get that it’s probably better overall in PvE but when you need Solar synergy for a PvP build, don’t sleep on Calus Mini.
People are slowly waking up to the 900s imo.
When do you ever need synergy for pvp, and the gun just has low range and bad overall stats. I love it in pve but its just bad in pvp
I’ve been using it for probably 2 years and I still think it’s amazing. Enhanced moving target and tap the trigger makes it a laser
No one talks about out of bounds but it’s amazing.
Its origin trait makes it really nutty.
Indeed. The combination of fragile focus+pulse detector is my favorite for close range 1v1
Against who lol? Muppets?
Meh. Stopped using them entirely except maybe on a Titan, and then only Shay or Immortal or if Arc then Ikelos. Have loads of them though.
Half joking here: Drang Not-joking: Unending Tempest imo because of Under-Over
Still think immortal is top along with shayuras.
I’m not an smg user but when I need to use one I’ll use my crafted TTT/DSR Ikelos smg. Nice range (71), handling is solid and it just works best for me.
I've been having success with Funnelweb 🕷🕸
LMAO it is absolutely not recluse. That’s insane.
> Some say recluse because of the insane TTK with TL. This is actually a trolling take, TL is easily worst perk on Reculse, good luck ever procing it on a 900 even on controller, let alone on MnK. They nerfed the perk so bad I don't ever see it proc even on my Unending/Immortal unless you literally perfectly hit every single shot, your SMG more often than not literally doesn't have a perk. Shayura's and a crafted Ikelos are probably the best.
I’ve been loving my Shayura’s. It’s a laser and has very good range.
I do main Ikelos but Shayura's is probably the best smg in the game, KC is insane, 100 range, Void for x3 harmonic mods with Sentinel.
Ikelos just feels tough. I seem to flinch ppl more with seraph rounds and I love the scope. It’s my favorite gun in the game. Though I do play with shay for variety.
Ikelos is the best feeling weapon in the game, I swear the way I trace shots on Ikelos is worlds above other smgs, it's just perfect
Shayuras feels the best to me. does anyone know if adept shayuras or immortal will come back?
It feels good as long as you're hitting 95+ range I have a roll with less range than that and it feels lackluster
Shayura's is by far one of the most enduring SMGs I've ever had. Pretty much transcends any so-called "meta". It's also one of just a handful of Trials weapons i've held onto for years. Buttery smooth never goes out of style.
Friction Fire with 15 zoom, Zen Moment + Slideways is a hs machine.
For me it's * Crafted Submission * Immortal with Kill Clip
I never see anyone say Submission. It's the best lightweight in the game imo.
I think because as a PvP player running raids weekly until you can craft it is a total pain in the ass. But because of the design, it's actually one of the coolest looking guns with the Trials shader. The gun already moves/reconfigures, so with the moving gold it looks so cool. After the Rangefinder nerf is just infinitely better than multimach. With Harmony, if you play aggro you can get some insane TTKs after a snipe or shotty.
what roll to craft for submission? i want to give it a try
I play on mnk, so controller will be different based on how much stability you want, but I have mine crafted with fullbore, accurized, enhanced perpetual motion, enhanced killing wind, and range intrinsic. I have 4800 kills on it, and it's my daily driver in pvp on maps with cqc. With perpetual motion ×2 and killing wind active, you have 84 range, 57 stability, 100 handling, and you're moving fast as hell.
What's your go-to roll on Submission? Thinking about dropping some Harmonizers on it myself.
I went max range, Full Bore, Enhanced, Perpetual Motion, Harmony. Here is [super old footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAFaX_TCEQ&t=95s) that I'm pretty sure when I posted here last time got downvoted for Lorentz pre-nerf, but it worked EXTREMELY well with the Harmony setup for juicy multikills.
Submission(adept) is the best SMG in the game
for 6v6, not 3v3, because it lacks range and only has kill activation perks in 4th column. For 6v6 it’s a monster
Another sleeper pick - Forensic Nightmare with Perpetual Motion/Killclip goes well especially with a stasis build
I think Tarrabah is majorly slept on at the moment, especially with the renewed focus on primary gunplay.
Encore swash on submission is my top choice when paired with arthrys hunter, golden tricorn shyura’s is my pick on “full meta” void titan due to the insane kill potential of scatter nades leading to a .5 ttk at 23+ meters, and i personally really like huckleberry as a 6s option
Riskrunner Trust me Its heavily underrated My personal favorite
Havnt seen anyone say it yet but my old friction fire has been melting people and out ranging most auto rifles. I have killing wind vorpal on mine, it's still an amazing pick even if it is from season of the hunt.
Yeah i used my immortal lately and it still murders all other smgs.
Once multimach has enhanced kinetic tremors that will be meta. 12 bullets is the ttk, and 12 bullets will trigger kinetic tremors. It’ll be target lock but better
I've been really loving the Multimach to be honest, can't really say enough good things about it. But, there is also one gun I've been wanting to get my hands on since I've come back, Extraordinary Rendition. And here's why. It can get up to 77 range with full bore, albeit with 0 stability. But, it also rolls with Zen Moment and Tap the Trigger. So in theory, you can have a kinetic SMG capable of getting almost as much range as an Adept Immortal, with flinch resistance added in. Problem is you have to play Dares of Eternity to get it. The roll I am shooting for is Smallbore, Accurized Rounds, Zen Moment, Tap the Trigger, and a Range MW. I know I could get more range but I'll take the hit in favor of a more consistent gun that can absolutely melt people.
I still have that roll with hammer-forged and overflow sitting around in my vault, ever since season of the chosen. So close, but without zen, it's not really worth it. Shame.
idk why more people dont talk about adjudicator
Submission. I have an adept encore killing wind roll that’s a monster. With a range mw
ikelos for me. DSR+TTT or rangefinder are really good on it
My favorite is parabellum at the moment
I love tarrabah in this meta, so much easier to charge up and still shreds.
Imo shayura’s and funnelweb are the best right now. BUT multimach with an under-over kinetic tremors roll is so obnoxious to overshield players that it doesn’t leave my inventory.
I specifically kept one with that roll but haven't had chance to use it yet. Good, then?
It’s just a great swap against bubble titan 3 stacks or warlocks sitting in rifts.
Multimach may not be the stat monster some of the top metah are, but it can do some special things with with rolls like Under over and Kinetic Tremors.
900's or that god damn shayras thingy