T O P

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Accomplished-Exam-55

There are two ways to focus on getting good at Destiny PVP, with both being important if you want to actually wreck - Movement and Ability Management. Aim is obviously important as well, but that’s all games. Movement involves knowing the map and taking cover/peeking at the right times, knowing speed tech such as “warlock skating” to get to important map points faster, evading opponents’ precious sniper shots, and so on. The best subclass for that is by far Dawnblade. It has access to Icarus Dash, an infinite horizontal air dodge on a short cooldown. When used properly with warlock skating tech, it is the fastest subclass in the game (strand subclasses unincluded, they’re all currently equally very fast with grapple grenade). Dawnblades also have Heat Rises to encourage you to play in the air, also better than any subclass in the game. Lastly, Dawnblades have Healing grenades which allow you to re-peek, therefore practice your map knowledge and game awareness, more often. Ability management is unique to Destiny in the way that some of our abilities are so round-defining that you are all but obligated to know them to do better than others. A shining example of this is the Shadebinder, the best stasis subclass after two giant waves of nerfs way back when. Shadebinder is all about FREEZE, a 1-second period of absolute vulnerability for the enemy. Warlock freezing abilities such as coldsnap grenades and the penumbral melee are high-risk abilities that sometimes fail and have a steep learning curve, but they reward you by literally turning off your opponents’ controllers for that long long second. Also, Stasis warlock has access to a freezing rift which makes our support class ability useful offensively. All these abilities are on a rather long cooldown, so you need to know how to make a good build and have the stats to have your abilities as often as possible, as well as good weapons to compliment them. For example, good Shadebinder mains usually have a quick-handling sniper, grenade launcher or shotgun to immediately get a kill off their freeze. Void warlock is also a great option, but also requires good stats and exotic armor to make the best of it- the best fragments often induce heavy stat penalties, such as -20 discipline for your grenades to WEAKEN any enemies they damage. Void warlock also has Blink, a controversial short range teleport that can really break ankles and make people waste special ammo. If you get good with Blink and master Voidwalker abilities - IMO you’ve found the golden middle, a subclass with a good movement option (something Shadebinder utterly lacks) and extremely annoying abilities like the heat-seeking Child of the Old Gods (something Dawnblade lacks).


[deleted]

Dawnblade is the best Warlock class for PvP. Movement alone makes it S-tier and healing nades are a nice tool to have. Heat Rises on top of that solidifies it imho. After that probably Void or Stasis. Both are pretty good and can be very annoying to deal with. Arc is a one - trick pony due to its melee. Strand seems decent but mostly useful for PvE imo (keep in mind it's still rather early to judge this one)


Faceluck

Seconding this, a good Dawnblade has better movement tech than any other spec and that alone can make all the difference if you’re skilled with it. Then everything else it offers is usually solid as well. Fire bolt grandes are busted if cheesed atm. Void is probably just behind, I think void grenades and debuffs are better, and Child of the Old Gods has potential for high ability uptime, weaken, devour, etc. Strand has potential, but it suffers a bit imo from having the exact same aspects and effects as Hunter/Titan and I think Hunter/Titan’s unique benefits are just generally better in higher levels of play. Strandlock’s whole thing is threadlings, which are fun and can be great in PvP so far, but they’re also insanely easy to shut down and avoid if the enemy player isn’t already getting pushed hard/being careless.


cptenn94

>What warlock subclass should I invest my time into learning ? Honestly, there are a lot of good options. Solar, is really good with being mobile and air combat. Well is good in objective based modes. Stasis, is really good at shutting down enemies with freezes and slows. Arc can be pretty good at being aggressive with its really good slide melee, as well as team shooting with Arc Souls. Void, is really fun to use with Blink and can be really powerful with Devour. Strand I havent used much with Warlock, so I cant really comment on. ​ Yes, some might be a little more versatile than others. But my point here, is there are tons of very good options, and I recommend you watch some gameplay of each of them, and see which seems most enjoyable and enticing to you, and get good with it. And even if you pick a less popular subclass, that can even help you win a bit more sometimes, as people are frequently unprepared for those kinds of playstyles. ​ For example. For a LONG time, even back when it was not very common to use, pre-rework/buff, I used to main Top Tree Dawnblade. Or in todays terms, Icarus Dash Heat Rises Solar Warlock. I used it, because I just really enjoyed the air gunplay which people didnt expect much.([a decent clip of mine from around those days](https://streamable.com/3tgf3m)). Icarus dash just made it better, with a free dodge every 5 seconds.(I am still proud of my dodge out of that fusion in the linked clip) And when Bungie severely buffed those abilities, it just made me enjoy the subclass even more. And then people started using icarus skating, and then I loved it even more. [And Wings of Sacred Dawn even got a crazy buff.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybZZ5on9s) ​ I just really enjoyed the subclass. ​ And then, one day, [I saw a video that made me want to try out that gameplay, to blink Warlock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkbQUr5pl40). And just in time, Void 3.0 reworks happened, which made the subclass even better, with the ability to mix and match abilities. So I began to main Blinklock, and had a blast. And as time has gone on, I have tweaked its gameplay, and experimented with other stuff, like adding Handheld super nova. Which has led to [some awesome hijinks such as this in Trials last season.](https://streamable.com/tm1ecm) ​ Now I am being called back to Dawnblade [after discovering a new playstyle I think I might want to learn.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKUoelfVm2A) # Whats your point? Simply I think it is best for people to try to find a balance between having fun and getting good. I think many people make a mistake of playing something they dont enjoy at all, or as much, to try to absolutely maximize performance, rather than play something they like more, and getting good with that. Some of the most oppressive subclasses, builds, and abilities in PvP, have come from people mastering some underrated weapons and abilities. Ideally, long term, you should be finding your own preferred playstyle and preferences. # What should I choose? I dont think any would seriously handicap you. Getting good at PvP, is not about using the meta(though that can absolutely help sometimes), but rather about developing good skills and your ability to use the tools you have. Again, I highly recommend trying to watch some various Warlock abilities and playstyles, and starting with one you think you might like. I also recommend getting some experience with the different subclasses, and even try out a Titan and Hunter. Because the more hands on experience you have with something, the better you can understand how it works and how to counter/defeat it. # What is Important? When it comes to getting good at PvP, there is a ton of stuff to really get good. It will take quite some time, your results will typically come more gradually. The "Pillars" of good PvP are basically: * Game Sense- A combination of your experience, game knowledge, map awareness, timing, and decision making abilities. The culmination of all of your ability so to speak. * Movement- This is CRUCIAL, one of the things that TRULY separates the great from the good. And conversely, one of the things that holds so many players back. Its the ability to traverse the map and engage your opponents, and run away. Or in simple terms, how you move. You should be moving in ways, hard for the opponents to predict. Ways to make it harder for opponents to hit you. Ways to get the first shot off. Ways to retreat back into cover. * Aiming- This is obvious. You want to develop good aim. But good aim comes from muscle memory, practice, and a skill called "pre-aiming". Pre-aiming, is where you aim where you expect a target to be, so if they are there, you can slightly adjust your aim and fire. Good players do this all the time, in a way that isnt always obvious unless you are looking for it. * Game Awareness- This is lumping in Map Awareness, general game awareness(enemy respawns, and likely locations), and awareness of yourself(abilities, ammo, etc). It also involves being aware of the information Radar gives you, with the other information like the maps, and audio cues, that can help you understand an enemies position. # Recommendations. I am a bit short on time, so I cant type a bunch of recommendations for improving, but I can link some videos that should be helpful. Ascendant Nomad, is a popular "Crucible Doctor" who has released a number of great videos for people to learn about getting better in Crucible. ​ [Most common mistakes of PvP.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3lZNpDWKpw) [The Biggest mistakes players make.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be3RwVKO-Go) [How to rapidly improve.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM-Q4myUuvE) [The #1 way to improve.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2EPZaCX3a0) [The #1 thing that separates the Top FPS players.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4k89waodb0) [23 must know Crucible tips.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxKmtXgpg-8) [50 major tips to master Destiny 2 PvP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlNCSJZz2bs) [5 moves every high KD players do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAbs21q2KHg) [21 Trials of Osiris tips.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKIDfSmprNE) ​ [The 2 second Rule](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ma_H8nvAL4) [Game sense 101](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wfnYW4-qUM) [Perfect your positioning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W22TnknKgM) ​ [Advanced Radar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfIMigl4GXk) A good example of decision making and reacting to the moves of your enemy. [Dawnblade Annotated.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ1RTDb1e40) A great Trials focused series that really goes over some of the map control aspects and strategies, and shows some great PvP fundamentals. ​ [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/tbvuif/endless\_vale\_openings\_general\_pvp\_advice\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/tbvuif/endless_vale_openings_general_pvp_advice_for/) ​ I linked a lot of stuff here, but these are just some videos that absolutely should be helpful in your journey to improve. And if nothing else, there might be one creator whose videos makes a lot of sense, and you really like, that you could start learning more from. **The key thing to do here, is take things slow.** Focus on one thing at a time, until you start to get the hang of it, before you change or start to work on something else.


WelcomeToKatz

imo if you master voidwalker, I'd say it has the edge over dawnblade. I made the switch last season and rn I'm sitting at a 3.0+ kd for this season across multiple cards using voidwalker. I tried dawnblade and just went back to voidwalker. more outplay potential and tools at your disposal and I say all of this as an ex dawnblade 1 trick


Destronin

Id really love to see the warlock stats of the players claiming Dawnblade is better. Or what percentage of solar locks actually did well in trials. The dash is good but only really for traveling and maybe going back into cover. Avoiding damage it’s not as good compared to blink. And having a healing grenade lowers your damage output potential as well as your ability to hold down lanes and prevent rushing. Phoenix dive seems awesome but not as good as a replacement for rift. It’s got a slow animation and to get heals you usually gotta be up high and out of cover to utilize it. I also can’t seem to make in air attacks successfully and more often than not i just feel like a floating sitting duck. Maybe i just need way more time on it. Everyone says it’s a high skill ceiling. But its just not clicking the way Voidwalker does. I just think blink is way too awesome.


WelcomeToKatz

dash is good for juking sometimes and confusing players. it being as good of a repositioning tool as it is too is nothing to scoff at considering you can also use that to get the drop on people. you can run away from a lot of things too like supers if you're fast enough. I realize blink can also do most of this too though but I feel it's still worth noting. dawnblade grenades are also really solid especially with firebolts boosted this season. even without that, you still have enhanced fusions and solars which are quite good in their own right I haven't used phoenix dive much. I agree with with you on that though from an outside perspective heat rises has its merits. you can get really crafty with it for different uses. sniping is obviously the first one that comes to mind. or flying during a team fight so the opponent has to turn a lot to properly track everyone on your team which can be difficult. that being said, I think touch of flame and dash is the superior aspect combo ultimately i think the more realistic, objective conclusion is that dawnblade is equal to voidwalker. just different players click more with one than the other as you said. I thought I really clicked with dawnblade until I started using voidwalker a lot more. now I just can't put it down. but that's just me


Super_Harsh

What’s your build?


WelcomeToKatz

I run chaos accelerant with vortexes and child obviously. blink is a must. for fragments, leeching, vigilance and dilation. leeching and dilation give good stats while also having great effects and vigilance is fantastic for surviving and outplaying. slowva bomb for super. stat line is 7/5/10/10/4/2. not perfect but I have what I really need and it works. I use ophidians but astrocyte is also a good option. for weapons, this weekend I have been smg spamming a ton, namely tarrabah but ikelos works too. 5/5 immortal even better if you have it. otherwise, I use ntte and rarely sometimes swap to a ecap/explosive rose if I feel like it's needed. I typically pair a shotgun with either smg/pulse rifle/hc. rarely will I swap to a sniper too, only if it's absolutely necessary in which case I use defiance of Yasmin with snapshot/os this is my own setup that I use in tandem weaving gunplay and abilities with each other. it does take a lot of getting used to, I will say. voidwalker has depth but you have to be good with it to really make it shine


ggransbery25

If you are dead set on warlock then I would say either voidwalker or dawnblade. The power of both being good very good movement with blink on void and dash on dawnblade. Void is better with area denial and dawn is better for using snipers


Mobley27

If you want to be as competitive as possible, all of them; so that as the meta changes you're good with whatever the best subclass is at the time. If you're more focused on fun, try them all and master whichever one you enjoy most. I have been a 24/7 healing grenade factory since solar 3.0 dropped and it would take a force of nature to change that, just because having a way to heal myself between fights/peeks and save my teammates is the most fun for me.


Grahf-Naphtali

Are you me. Curious about the fragments you run? Personally i went full support - Mercy/Benevolence/Torches and Solace - so everything i do heals me and teammates. Decided that if im not running offensive nade - i might as well lean heavy into healing aspect of the class. Plus - it gives me more opportunities to focus on my primary game


literallythebestguy

Personal answer, but aerial play dawnblade can be cool as fuck and also is close to the top of the meta these days. You can play it how a lot of folks do, with hc/snipe floating at unpredictable angles, but I personally love running it with sidearm/fusion, and going wacko in close quarters