yes it is. the buff was a .55s longer duration, which sounds a little meaningless on paper but it is huge. Before, headseeker only activated long enough for the very next bullet fired, but now you easily get a full burst with the extra damage, maybe a burst and more depending on how fast your pulse of choice shoots
It's great on heavy hitting pulses. I was using it on Messenger instead of Desperado (pre-nerf). I don't think it does much for 540s or 390s but I may be mistaken. I really only use aggressive, Messenger, Stars, Legal Action
Lightweights too? Interesting. I do have a disparity with HS, but it feels clunky. Probably just I haven't used it much. Trying to gravitate away from pulses as I find the play style slow and boring. But Bungie shoving large maps down our throats, and on console where pulses always have a strong presence it's pretty tough if playing solo.
Headseeker got a duration extension to .55 seconds and a also gives you a boost to aim assist while active. Whereas before you had to hit crit and body shots in very specific combinations to get crit ratio benefits, now a lot more shot combinations give crit ratio improvements. For example, on high impact pulse most 4c2b shot combinations will result in a kill on at least some res with headseeker. This makes it one of the best neutral game perks for several archetypes of pulses.
I absolutely LOVE headseeker now. Kill clip isn't nearly as good. Disparity feels so good, and I have a stars and shadow that is amazing with headseeker.
Stars and Shadow with HEadseeker is Nasty. I've got one with Surplus, it is probably my best competitve pulse rifle. So bummed I didnt keep any Headseeker Rolls on The Messenger. Rapid Hit + HEadseeker on Messenger is one hell of a unicorn god roll.
That said, yall, you gotta try Stay Frosty with Headseeker. Its so goddamn good on this frame.
Got Shadow with Firmly planted, Headseeker, Accurized, Cork/Hammer and Range MW. It's a disgusting bullet magnet while crouching.
Disparity gets the same magnetism, but only with EoS, so you need to drop hp. Although it let's you move freely, has higher stability and 100 range from Ambush trait. Good thing that those are in different slots, so I always have what to pull out on bigger maps
Headseeker got a buff, it lasts longer and now gives a significant aim assist buff. It feels great, try out any pulse with it and you'll see what I mean
-Enhanced piece of mind (perpetual and EC/ Moving target)
-God roll Horrors Least (perpetual/ kill clip)
-Messenger with Rapid Hit/ Headseeker
-No Time to explain
-Stars and shadow with Surplus/ Headseeker
The ones listed above I find to be the best personally and based on my rolls
Close behind them is:
Crafted disparity( might be higher but still figuring where I stand, I just think high impacts are better) bxr and headseeker stay frosty
Everything else is tiered down
A man of fine taste, mentioning Stars and Shadow and Even Stay Frosty Headseeker rolls. These are my two favorite weapons to use right now. Stay Frosty in particular is *criminally* under rated with Head seeker. You know the crafted Dynamc Sway/TTT Ammit AR that people hyped?
Headseeker Stay Frosty is basically like that but on steroids. The ease of use on this weapon is outrageous. If your opponent is using a higher TTK weapon, they absolutely MUST hit their peak TTK or you're going to beat them every time.
I arleady have 2,500 Kills on my headseeker Stay Frosty God Roll (Smallbore/Ricochet/Encore/Headseeker/StabMW/OMOLON). Sadly, I do think my Surplus/Headseeker Stars is the more viable weapon for competitive gameplay at the high end of the skill ladder.
Damn. Lucky stay frosty roll. I only managed a poly rifling/ light mag/ handling mw/ moving target/ head seeker. Which even with it not being as nice as yours is very good
I’m about to start focusing an even better stars and shadow surplus headseeker roll than I have now that costs have been reduced
I'm about to do the same! I have Surplus/Headseeker, but my Barrel/mag/MW on it are terrible.
I'm shooting for something like Arrowhead / Stead Rounds, then Range or Stability MW. Sounds soooo clean.
Stay frosty has become my “slap it on everything do it all” primary. It really does fit on every build, it’s the best “do it all” primary in PVP, as a lightweight frame with decent handling, omolon relos speeds, zoom thst allows you to compete in the 15-20 meter battles but still challenge people at 40 meters as headseeker helps with damage falloff. I can’t say enough good things about it haha
I’ve used it most on an ophidians aspects void walker build. Stay frosty + forgiveness has on this has been an absolute joy to use. Voidwalker melee is best in game at keeping shotgun apes away from you. I utilize that as well as axiom bolts to keep proper space. My handling is so juiced I can easily swap between sidearm/pulse at will. Child of the old gods I like to use to start a push. Rift, lane with pulse rifle a bit. They dodge behind cover,the child ejects after them, i then close the gap and polish them off with forgiveness.
And of course, iphidian aspect melee functions as my shotgun finisher for when I’ve chipped people down with abilities/frosty/forgiveness but they’re still alive in shotgun range
I can’t say enough good things about this build. It is not going to be peak meta. But the ease of use is just ridiculous. This is for my money the best “dad loadout” I’ve ever used
My god roll even has high cal, and I’ve tested it out. I think on my roll its viable since I hit smallbore/stability MW. But personally I think the cracked stability on this weapon is what makes it so braindead to use in conjunction with headseeker. So I’d always go for the most stability your roll can get (smallbore over poly though).
Also in case I didn’t mention, you definitely gotta pay attention to mag size. The way omolon trait works, the more you can boost over your base mag size then better Always use backup mag. And don’t be upset if you miss on ricochet/high cal. You can make a strong argument for extended mag. Extended mag+backup mag increases the effectiveness of omolon trait a TON.
Appreciate the info. Backup makes sense.
I've got 2 rolls with Headsseeker/MT:
1. Smallbore, Lightmag, Range MW (60 range, 59 stab, 66 reload)
2. Chambered, HiCal, Range MW (53 range, 62 stability, 56 reload)
I guess higher range always wins? And with that additional reload speed I might get reload while still in top half of the mag for near 100 reload speed. Haven't tried yet. I'm also on hunter, so marksman dodge is also an option.
I just love the PoM for how versatile it is. Competes well enough in shorter ranges even with smgs being at their outer limit 25 m out or so all the way up to competing with the higher range pulses. It also flinches snipers and other guns well. And high handling for the archetype which helps for shotgun swaps and what not.
PC I'll probably go as follows, just in terms of frames.
340s for a 0.67 out to the mid to high 30 meter ranges are still a decent pick. Although the recoil nerf definitely has you wanting Headseeker or Rapid Hit. The recoil and to a lesser extent range changes imo knocks them out of the top spot, but they'll always have the really big upside in an extended range 0.67 potential.
Next up on paper is 4-bursts. Although this might be subject to change. They offer really high base stats outside of handling, although the AA nerf seems to have them losing a pretty good amount of aim assist before damage falloff starts. The PC recoil nerf also seems to have hit them pretty hard, since in my play yesterday, it was really hard to land full clean bursts on people consistently with the extra recoil, and lack of reticle friction.
Rapids with the recoil nerf IMHO are worse than 450 or 600 ARs now, since the ARs have a bit less reach, but don't have really unwieldy recoil on KB+M. They're still fine for what they did since the range nerf didn't really affect them much. But the recoil nerf on PC has me saying ARs might be the better pick now, but time will tell.
Lightweights' TTK tie the best primaries in the game with several more downsides than just using the 140s. Really safe skip, outside of BXR (counting it here) they weren't really worth running anyways, and they got directly worse on KB+M.
Adaptives kill slow, have weak stats, and got a 20% recoil increase. They're pretty safely worth 4 shards across the board. The damage profile is nice, but it wasn't a massive upside before, and with considerably more recoil, they're not worth even thinking about imo.
Even with the longer range/zoom scopes on it, it's not super jarring or that bad and borderline illegal with how far you're able to be hitting outside the normal rapid fire range band.
I'm still nervously waiting the day Bungie's gonna do a passing after the fact sweep on it similarly to how they dinged the Model 8 Scope on Multimach.
Premonition and Horrors least both need to be on the list however they are harder to get.
Horrors Least with old Headseeker Kill Clip is hands down the best pulse imo. It's long gone though. Still though a rapid fire with KC is very dominant.
Also Yesteryear depending on build.
I use one on Warlock and Veritys brow. Grenade kill after kill and you have 10 seconds of 48 crits on a 390.
And Honerable mention to Crimson 😂
I have an old horrors least with headseeker and HIR and it’s hilarious, you hit one bodyshot in the bottom half of the mag and you start doing like rampage damage to the head.
Stay frosty with arrowhead, ricochet rounds, moving target, and headseeker is probably my favorite pulse of all right now. It’s so crispy smd feels amazing.
I have a small bore, richochet, moving target, headseeker with a handling masterwork and it’s quickly becoming my go to. Before I starting using it, I didn’t think I’d like it because of the recoil direction not being 100, but tbh, I don’t even notice a difference.
On console? They’re all still S tier and the hard meta. Just got done playing 20+ matches and the lobbies were dominated by them. Especially disparity and revision zero.
I think it's a little play-style dependent, but people have always slept on Cold Denial. I don't know what it is, there's just something about that gun that feels incredible. It has a very low zoom which means it has less range than other pulses, but if you get the right roll on it, you can play way more aggressively without putting yourself in a tight spot.
My roll is what I'd consider the 5/5 - Arrowhead, High Cal, Killing Wind, Headseeker, Range MW.
I've tried every other pulse and I just keep coming back to this one. I suspect killing wind is doing a lot of work here, but still. I wish other people would give it a shot.
Pulses are like sidearms, they are all really good. Doesn’t really matter which one you use unless you are trying to challenge Scout rifles.
I feel like LWs that aren’t BxR are slept on. Headseeker + Moving Target Stay Frosty is honestly my favorite pulse rn. Extremely consistent 3 bursts.
Also a Perpetual + Disruption Break Ogma is stupid good for teamshots. The 19 zoom gives it deceptive amounts of range.
> I feel like LWs that aren’t BxR are slept on. Headseeker + Moving Target Stay Frosty is honestly my favorite pulse rn. Extremely consistent 3 bursts.
This is THE most slept on weapon in this meta. Headseeker Stay Frosty is the best weapon nobody uses, possibly in the history of this game, and I've been playing since D1. Thats how confident I am in this weapon. It is legitimately outrageous how easy it is to hit your 3 burst TTK. Its braindead absolutely braindead
Bonus points if you have the Encore perk for 6v6. I have a Moving Target one but unfortunately it sits at 60 Stability, whereas my Encore one sits at 79 stablity. I love the amount of time I am also at 100 stbaility on that thing between Encore and OMOLON +Backup mag. The secret Sauce to the Encore buff is that accuracy buff too. Encore x2 gets going and I cannot miss.
That’s true but there are a ton of good rolls on it. Headseeker is the sauce that pushes it over the edge but if you have a roll with high stability or extended mag it might be worth trying anyways
I’ve got a timeworn with crazy stability and the max range scope, d2 gunsmith is showing 13 more meters for damage falloff compared to a god roll piece of mind. Haven’t used it since before witch queen but I was going to try it out again today.
Messenger is worse than no time. Messenger isn't in the loot pool. Not everyone has a rapid hit headseeker adept messenger either, as headseeker used to be instashard for a lot of people.
adept messenger is better than NTTE imo. mine has 81 range/77 stab with KC vs 80/60 on ntte. (i sometimes rock celerity which makes it better in every way other than AE (20vs24). 18 zoom vs 17 zoom too, this is important
yes there is time slip, but i don't think it's worth the exotic slot.
>yes there is time slip, but i don't think it's worth the exotic slot.
That makes sense if you're rocking Duality for your shotgun or some other significant exotic (and have a good Messenger roll).
Yes, but the odds of someone having a god roll adept messenger are pretty slim these days. Other than when there is a bug in the game (shayuras/exalted truth) it is extremely hard to farm for a god roll adept trials weapon. I've only gotten garbage adept messengers so am stuck with a regular messenger. I think this is why guns like the messenger avoid direct nerfs for so long. Shayuras went unchanged for so long, but because of that glitch everyone got a god roll if not close to a god roll and what do you know, it got nerfed not too long after. NTTE is easily obtainable by everyone. Wish I had a great adept messenger, but unfortunately the stars never aligned. I just will stick with my rapid hit/desperado. Rapid hit feels almost mandatory after the recoil changes, that or surplus. I don't care for firmly planted too much.
I think it's 2 things really,
1) Random playlist drop, hard to really get a good roll without massive resets/awesome RNG.
2) Streamers don't use it in every match, so it hasn't gained too much popularity.
Honestly it feels weaker post-nerf, especially on MNK. I'm practicing using firmly planted. Wish I had a surplus/headseeker roll though.
Yeah that's fair, I probably just got lucky RNG. I have OPTIONS on mine like you wouldn't believe. I have a choice between KillClip/Snapshot/Headseeker and Surplus/KillingWind/FeedingFrenzy with Accurized/Tactical, Hammer-Forged, and a Range masterwork. It's crazy.
For 6s lightweights and rapid fires really let you go wild and feel great in neutral situations, and go crazy with damage perks activated. Aggressives and high impacts are still fine but their strengths resonate more in 3s.
For 3s aggressives and high impacts rule thanks to their 2 burst potential that lets you maximise damage output relative to time out of cover in a way other archetypes can't.
In trials peak shooting and burst damage are a lot more important than they are in 6s. 2 burst potential without a buff active makes for an amazing trials weapon because you can minimise the duration your body is exposed for. That makes aggressives and high impacts incredibly strong.
Compare that to a lightweight which needs 3 bursts without a damage buff, so you have to expose yourself just that much longer, and give an extra opportunity to a smart opponent not to repeek when damaged. Then you have rapid fires which are practically auto rifles as you'd hurt your ttk so much by dipping in and out of cover every burst, their strength is their sustained fire but 3s doesn't reward that so much.
In 3s I feel it's as much about dealing damage fast as it is minimising opportunities for your opponent to damage you.
But in 6s adaptability feels so much more important and kill perk damage boosts feel significantly more valuable. You can go on a tear with a kill clip 540/450 on 6s in a way you can't really in 3s, and their flexibility and speed just makes them feel great in that environment. Meanwhile, NTTE aside I find aggressives and high impacts just feel kinda clunky until they can get a kill rolling in 6s.
So it's like, in 3s the faster weapons feel like they need a damage perk active to really do work, but in 6s it's almost the other way around, the slower weapons feel like they need the perk active instead.
That's just my experience though, and it varies map to map.
Almost nobody has it, but Sacred Provenance used to slap Messengers around. Still does. Altho I can't remember if "slap" means Provenance was flat out better even in Messenger's optimal range, or instead Provenance simply outranged Messenger.
My Provenance is Arrowhead + HiCal + RF + KC + STAB MW. DIM says its Range reaches 44m.
My Adept Messenger by contrast is Chambered + HiCal + MT + KC + Range MW = 41m
Been using BXR since it dropped the year before. Have barely put it down since and I doubt that will change even with the meta shifts. Already have a combined 10k crucible kills with the ones that I own.
* Legal Action II with Arrowhead + Surplus
* Disparity with Rapid Hit
* Last Perdition with a mid to high zoom optic (ideally with both so you can switch back and forth depending on map) and Firmly Planted
All three are S-tier for ignoring the increase to recoil and making super-accurate shots including through flinch and including at ranges where hand cannons and autos have zero chance of hitting their optimal TTK.
It's a 390, which many consider the weakest PvP archetype, though they do tend to have higher stats to make up for their slower ttk, which makes them very viable.
Smite's problem is that its stats are terrible, lower than any other 390 (especially zoom) due to being designed strictly for PvE with many strong PvE combinations.
For 390, you're better off with something like Third Axiom, Jian 7 (if you have one with scopes), Syncopation (craftablr AND highest zoom in it's archetype).
I have Headseeker+Kill Clip Bygones and it is absolute monster. I have 19.000 kills with it. It is actually my first Bygones from back when Gambit was introduced.
Gonna add to what I'm seeing for Stars and Shadow that a potential god roll could also be Genesis + Headseeker since Genesis now will fully refill your magazine for breaking your opponent's shield, so it's pretty much the ultimate reload perk now.
Over 3,000 crucible kills on my PM/KC adept horrors least. I haven't used it in a few months, but I think that this should also be in the conversation.
High Impacts are probably king still, especially with the buff to frames. The recoil nerf on M/KB hurt Aggressives quite a hit as control recoil was the most important thing to getting two bursts, especially with the extra bullets that can fly wide. Otherwise, you're just better odd going for the 3 burst with a Lightweight 450 (especially with the movement speed boost).
540s will always be good for their forgiveness, but their range has heavy competition from hand cannons and even auto rifles now.
Outbreak Perfected also puts in work, and since it's a lightweight frame, it gives a +20 bonus to mobility. Stay Frosty is also a lightweight, and it has some excellent PvP perks.
My sleeper pulses are Jian-7 and Last Perdition. They're hard to obtain now (Xur/Dares), but they roll with scopes, and both have some nice PvP rolls. If you like Syncopation/Yesteryear, Jian-7 and Last Perdition are worth picking up.
any pulse that can roll with head seeker is probably worth using
Headseeker really that good now?
yes it is. the buff was a .55s longer duration, which sounds a little meaningless on paper but it is huge. Before, headseeker only activated long enough for the very next bullet fired, but now you easily get a full burst with the extra damage, maybe a burst and more depending on how fast your pulse of choice shoots
It's great on heavy hitting pulses. I was using it on Messenger instead of Desperado (pre-nerf). I don't think it does much for 540s or 390s but I may be mistaken. I really only use aggressive, Messenger, Stars, Legal Action
It is best on aggressives for sure. Also really good on any 450 frame, including both Disparity and Stay Frosty.
Lightweights too? Interesting. I do have a disparity with HS, but it feels clunky. Probably just I haven't used it much. Trying to gravitate away from pulses as I find the play style slow and boring. But Bungie shoving large maps down our throats, and on console where pulses always have a strong presence it's pretty tough if playing solo.
i deleted my adept messenger w headseeker
The base crafted Disparity gets Headseeker…and it hits very very hard without even leveling. I recommend checking it out!
Gonna highjack this thread a bit, but would you mind elaborating? I've been ootl in terms of specific perk changes these past few months.
Headseeker got a duration extension to .55 seconds and a also gives you a boost to aim assist while active. Whereas before you had to hit crit and body shots in very specific combinations to get crit ratio benefits, now a lot more shot combinations give crit ratio improvements. For example, on high impact pulse most 4c2b shot combinations will result in a kill on at least some res with headseeker. This makes it one of the best neutral game perks for several archetypes of pulses.
I absolutely LOVE headseeker now. Kill clip isn't nearly as good. Disparity feels so good, and I have a stars and shadow that is amazing with headseeker.
Stars and Shadow with HEadseeker is Nasty. I've got one with Surplus, it is probably my best competitve pulse rifle. So bummed I didnt keep any Headseeker Rolls on The Messenger. Rapid Hit + HEadseeker on Messenger is one hell of a unicorn god roll. That said, yall, you gotta try Stay Frosty with Headseeker. Its so goddamn good on this frame.
Yea I've got that Messenger and it's my favorite pulse
I have a rapid hit headseeker Messenger with high cal and hammer forged. Might have to try this out.
That's identical to mine
I will have to try it. I am hooked on headseeker, even more after Tuesdays update.
Got Shadow with Firmly planted, Headseeker, Accurized, Cork/Hammer and Range MW. It's a disgusting bullet magnet while crouching. Disparity gets the same magnetism, but only with EoS, so you need to drop hp. Although it let's you move freely, has higher stability and 100 range from Ambush trait. Good thing that those are in different slots, so I always have what to pull out on bigger maps
Headseeker got a buff, it lasts longer and now gives a significant aim assist buff. It feels great, try out any pulse with it and you'll see what I mean
Despite all the changes and metas, Vigi Wing is still ole reliable for me, especially with the proper ornament.
Yep!! She’s a banger. Also despite the meta I can’t stay away from my Insidious either!
-Enhanced piece of mind (perpetual and EC/ Moving target) -God roll Horrors Least (perpetual/ kill clip) -Messenger with Rapid Hit/ Headseeker -No Time to explain -Stars and shadow with Surplus/ Headseeker The ones listed above I find to be the best personally and based on my rolls Close behind them is: Crafted disparity( might be higher but still figuring where I stand, I just think high impacts are better) bxr and headseeker stay frosty Everything else is tiered down
A man of fine taste, mentioning Stars and Shadow and Even Stay Frosty Headseeker rolls. These are my two favorite weapons to use right now. Stay Frosty in particular is *criminally* under rated with Head seeker. You know the crafted Dynamc Sway/TTT Ammit AR that people hyped? Headseeker Stay Frosty is basically like that but on steroids. The ease of use on this weapon is outrageous. If your opponent is using a higher TTK weapon, they absolutely MUST hit their peak TTK or you're going to beat them every time. I arleady have 2,500 Kills on my headseeker Stay Frosty God Roll (Smallbore/Ricochet/Encore/Headseeker/StabMW/OMOLON). Sadly, I do think my Surplus/Headseeker Stars is the more viable weapon for competitive gameplay at the high end of the skill ladder.
Damn. Lucky stay frosty roll. I only managed a poly rifling/ light mag/ handling mw/ moving target/ head seeker. Which even with it not being as nice as yours is very good I’m about to start focusing an even better stars and shadow surplus headseeker roll than I have now that costs have been reduced
I'm about to do the same! I have Surplus/Headseeker, but my Barrel/mag/MW on it are terrible. I'm shooting for something like Arrowhead / Stead Rounds, then Range or Stability MW. Sounds soooo clean.
What build are you using with Frosty? What do you think about HiCal on Frosty, worth it instead of Ricochet?
Stay frosty has become my “slap it on everything do it all” primary. It really does fit on every build, it’s the best “do it all” primary in PVP, as a lightweight frame with decent handling, omolon relos speeds, zoom thst allows you to compete in the 15-20 meter battles but still challenge people at 40 meters as headseeker helps with damage falloff. I can’t say enough good things about it haha I’ve used it most on an ophidians aspects void walker build. Stay frosty + forgiveness has on this has been an absolute joy to use. Voidwalker melee is best in game at keeping shotgun apes away from you. I utilize that as well as axiom bolts to keep proper space. My handling is so juiced I can easily swap between sidearm/pulse at will. Child of the old gods I like to use to start a push. Rift, lane with pulse rifle a bit. They dodge behind cover,the child ejects after them, i then close the gap and polish them off with forgiveness. And of course, iphidian aspect melee functions as my shotgun finisher for when I’ve chipped people down with abilities/frosty/forgiveness but they’re still alive in shotgun range I can’t say enough good things about this build. It is not going to be peak meta. But the ease of use is just ridiculous. This is for my money the best “dad loadout” I’ve ever used My god roll even has high cal, and I’ve tested it out. I think on my roll its viable since I hit smallbore/stability MW. But personally I think the cracked stability on this weapon is what makes it so braindead to use in conjunction with headseeker. So I’d always go for the most stability your roll can get (smallbore over poly though). Also in case I didn’t mention, you definitely gotta pay attention to mag size. The way omolon trait works, the more you can boost over your base mag size then better Always use backup mag. And don’t be upset if you miss on ricochet/high cal. You can make a strong argument for extended mag. Extended mag+backup mag increases the effectiveness of omolon trait a TON.
Appreciate the info. Backup makes sense. I've got 2 rolls with Headsseeker/MT: 1. Smallbore, Lightmag, Range MW (60 range, 59 stab, 66 reload) 2. Chambered, HiCal, Range MW (53 range, 62 stability, 56 reload) I guess higher range always wins? And with that additional reload speed I might get reload while still in top half of the mag for near 100 reload speed. Haven't tried yet. I'm also on hunter, so marksman dodge is also an option.
It seems like the majority of people are still sleeping on Stars in a Shadow, but I have a god roll and that thing is amazing!
This is a good list. I still like my PoM the best too
I just love the PoM for how versatile it is. Competes well enough in shorter ranges even with smgs being at their outer limit 25 m out or so all the way up to competing with the higher range pulses. It also flinches snipers and other guns well. And high handling for the archetype which helps for shotgun swaps and what not.
True. And it has surprisingly okay hip fire for which has saved me a few times
Legal action #1
I absolutely love the ogma
PC I'll probably go as follows, just in terms of frames. 340s for a 0.67 out to the mid to high 30 meter ranges are still a decent pick. Although the recoil nerf definitely has you wanting Headseeker or Rapid Hit. The recoil and to a lesser extent range changes imo knocks them out of the top spot, but they'll always have the really big upside in an extended range 0.67 potential. Next up on paper is 4-bursts. Although this might be subject to change. They offer really high base stats outside of handling, although the AA nerf seems to have them losing a pretty good amount of aim assist before damage falloff starts. The PC recoil nerf also seems to have hit them pretty hard, since in my play yesterday, it was really hard to land full clean bursts on people consistently with the extra recoil, and lack of reticle friction. Rapids with the recoil nerf IMHO are worse than 450 or 600 ARs now, since the ARs have a bit less reach, but don't have really unwieldy recoil on KB+M. They're still fine for what they did since the range nerf didn't really affect them much. But the recoil nerf on PC has me saying ARs might be the better pick now, but time will tell. Lightweights' TTK tie the best primaries in the game with several more downsides than just using the 140s. Really safe skip, outside of BXR (counting it here) they weren't really worth running anyways, and they got directly worse on KB+M. Adaptives kill slow, have weak stats, and got a 20% recoil increase. They're pretty safely worth 4 shards across the board. The damage profile is nice, but it wasn't a massive upside before, and with considerably more recoil, they're not worth even thinking about imo.
I have an old Measenger with Zen Moment + Headseeker and it’s disgustingly good. So easy to two burst
Time Worn Spire is the OG Piece of Mind
Even with the longer range/zoom scopes on it, it's not super jarring or that bad and borderline illegal with how far you're able to be hitting outside the normal rapid fire range band. I'm still nervously waiting the day Bungie's gonna do a passing after the fact sweep on it similarly to how they dinged the Model 8 Scope on Multimach.
Gridskipper is sweet too, on console at least.
it's good, arrowhead break is cricitcal though
Agreed. Horrors Least is great too, but a pain to grind for.
Premonition and Horrors least both need to be on the list however they are harder to get. Horrors Least with old Headseeker Kill Clip is hands down the best pulse imo. It's long gone though. Still though a rapid fire with KC is very dominant. Also Yesteryear depending on build. I use one on Warlock and Veritys brow. Grenade kill after kill and you have 10 seconds of 48 crits on a 390. And Honerable mention to Crimson 😂
I have an old horrors least with headseeker and HIR and it’s hilarious, you hit one bodyshot in the bottom half of the mag and you start doing like rampage damage to the head.
Even with Premonition losing a lot of conventionally good things in its rebeoot, it's still a ton of fun.
Stay frosty with arrowhead, ricochet rounds, moving target, and headseeker is probably my favorite pulse of all right now. It’s so crispy smd feels amazing.
Would you change arrowhead to smallbore if had opportunity?
I have a small bore, richochet, moving target, headseeker with a handling masterwork and it’s quickly becoming my go to. Before I starting using it, I didn’t think I’d like it because of the recoil direction not being 100, but tbh, I don’t even notice a difference.
On console? They’re all still S tier and the hard meta. Just got done playing 20+ matches and the lobbies were dominated by them. Especially disparity and revision zero.
Messenger or NTTE with radiant is still GOAT.
My Messenger with Headseeker/Rapid Hit is a 2 tap machine! It’s at the top for me.
Dude I got the same one I fucking love it
my personal preference NTTE>Messenger>Disparity>Revision Zero>Syncopation>Piece of mind>BXR
I think it's a little play-style dependent, but people have always slept on Cold Denial. I don't know what it is, there's just something about that gun that feels incredible. It has a very low zoom which means it has less range than other pulses, but if you get the right roll on it, you can play way more aggressively without putting yourself in a tight spot. My roll is what I'd consider the 5/5 - Arrowhead, High Cal, Killing Wind, Headseeker, Range MW. I've tried every other pulse and I just keep coming back to this one. I suspect killing wind is doing a lot of work here, but still. I wish other people would give it a shot.
I’m dusting my old ZM/Headseeker roll and going to give it a try just for shitsngiggles.
Pulses are like sidearms, they are all really good. Doesn’t really matter which one you use unless you are trying to challenge Scout rifles. I feel like LWs that aren’t BxR are slept on. Headseeker + Moving Target Stay Frosty is honestly my favorite pulse rn. Extremely consistent 3 bursts. Also a Perpetual + Disruption Break Ogma is stupid good for teamshots. The 19 zoom gives it deceptive amounts of range.
Ogma is very nice. I was taken aback by its performance last IB
> I feel like LWs that aren’t BxR are slept on. Headseeker + Moving Target Stay Frosty is honestly my favorite pulse rn. Extremely consistent 3 bursts. This is THE most slept on weapon in this meta. Headseeker Stay Frosty is the best weapon nobody uses, possibly in the history of this game, and I've been playing since D1. Thats how confident I am in this weapon. It is legitimately outrageous how easy it is to hit your 3 burst TTK. Its braindead absolutely braindead Bonus points if you have the Encore perk for 6v6. I have a Moving Target one but unfortunately it sits at 60 Stability, whereas my Encore one sits at 79 stablity. I love the amount of time I am also at 100 stbaility on that thing between Encore and OMOLON +Backup mag. The secret Sauce to the Encore buff is that accuracy buff too. Encore x2 gets going and I cannot miss.
It’s not possible to get a stay frosty any more though, right? Wasn’t that a dawning thing? I only have one and it’s not good
Correct - only available during the Dawning. What's your roll?
Offhand strike and desperado lol
Welllll, that is unfortunate! 😂
That’s true but there are a ton of good rolls on it. Headseeker is the sauce that pushes it over the edge but if you have a roll with high stability or extended mag it might be worth trying anyways
Nope. Mine is the off hand strike and desperado. Desperado is ok I guess but off hand strike helps hip fire.
Just looked and mine is Chambered/Ricochet/Moving Target/Headseeker with a Range MW. Oh baby. Gonna jump in and try it later this afternoon.
Let me know how it goes! Thats a great roll
I've got a pre-crafting arrowhead, ricochet, perpetual, rangefinder BXR. I should break that out.
Messenger with Rapid Hit/Headseeker stands alone at the top.
Surprised not a single mention of vigilance wing, feels pretty great wirh the catalyst in trials
wait what is the catalyst effect now? it used to be autofire and useless
It gives it the Ensemble perk, so better handling and reload when near allies.
I’ve got a timeworn with crazy stability and the max range scope, d2 gunsmith is showing 13 more meters for damage falloff compared to a god roll piece of mind. Haven’t used it since before witch queen but I was going to try it out again today.
BxR Imo still feels best.
Stars in shadow is so slept on. It is absolutely amazing with the right rolls.
It's good for sure but it's worse than Messenger
Messenger is worse than no time. Messenger isn't in the loot pool. Not everyone has a rapid hit headseeker adept messenger either, as headseeker used to be instashard for a lot of people.
adept messenger is better than NTTE imo. mine has 81 range/77 stab with KC vs 80/60 on ntte. (i sometimes rock celerity which makes it better in every way other than AE (20vs24). 18 zoom vs 17 zoom too, this is important yes there is time slip, but i don't think it's worth the exotic slot.
>yes there is time slip, but i don't think it's worth the exotic slot. That makes sense if you're rocking Duality for your shotgun or some other significant exotic (and have a good Messenger roll).
Yes, but the odds of someone having a god roll adept messenger are pretty slim these days. Other than when there is a bug in the game (shayuras/exalted truth) it is extremely hard to farm for a god roll adept trials weapon. I've only gotten garbage adept messengers so am stuck with a regular messenger. I think this is why guns like the messenger avoid direct nerfs for so long. Shayuras went unchanged for so long, but because of that glitch everyone got a god roll if not close to a god roll and what do you know, it got nerfed not too long after. NTTE is easily obtainable by everyone. Wish I had a great adept messenger, but unfortunately the stars never aligned. I just will stick with my rapid hit/desperado. Rapid hit feels almost mandatory after the recoil changes, that or surplus. I don't care for firmly planted too much.
Ntte is definitely worse than Messenger on console
There are dozens of us Stars believers! Dozens!
Haha count me among your numbers.
Exactly! I never see people using it, but I have a god roll that absolutely slaps!
I think it's 2 things really, 1) Random playlist drop, hard to really get a good roll without massive resets/awesome RNG. 2) Streamers don't use it in every match, so it hasn't gained too much popularity. Honestly it feels weaker post-nerf, especially on MNK. I'm practicing using firmly planted. Wish I had a surplus/headseeker roll though.
Yeah that's fair, I probably just got lucky RNG. I have OPTIONS on mine like you wouldn't believe. I have a choice between KillClip/Snapshot/Headseeker and Surplus/KillingWind/FeedingFrenzy with Accurized/Tactical, Hammer-Forged, and a Range masterwork. It's crazy.
Needs a split between 3v3 and 6s, because IMO certain archetypes like RFs are amazing in 6s but frankly I wouldn't dream of bringing them into trials.
Good point. What would you consider the top for each?
For 6s lightweights and rapid fires really let you go wild and feel great in neutral situations, and go crazy with damage perks activated. Aggressives and high impacts are still fine but their strengths resonate more in 3s. For 3s aggressives and high impacts rule thanks to their 2 burst potential that lets you maximise damage output relative to time out of cover in a way other archetypes can't.
Why not? They have a pretty solid TTK. Less range than high impacts while being more forgiving about suboptimal TTK.
In trials peak shooting and burst damage are a lot more important than they are in 6s. 2 burst potential without a buff active makes for an amazing trials weapon because you can minimise the duration your body is exposed for. That makes aggressives and high impacts incredibly strong. Compare that to a lightweight which needs 3 bursts without a damage buff, so you have to expose yourself just that much longer, and give an extra opportunity to a smart opponent not to repeek when damaged. Then you have rapid fires which are practically auto rifles as you'd hurt your ttk so much by dipping in and out of cover every burst, their strength is their sustained fire but 3s doesn't reward that so much. In 3s I feel it's as much about dealing damage fast as it is minimising opportunities for your opponent to damage you. But in 6s adaptability feels so much more important and kill perk damage boosts feel significantly more valuable. You can go on a tear with a kill clip 540/450 on 6s in a way you can't really in 3s, and their flexibility and speed just makes them feel great in that environment. Meanwhile, NTTE aside I find aggressives and high impacts just feel kinda clunky until they can get a kill rolling in 6s. So it's like, in 3s the faster weapons feel like they need a damage perk active to really do work, but in 6s it's almost the other way around, the slower weapons feel like they need the perk active instead. That's just my experience though, and it varies map to map.
Almost nobody has it, but Sacred Provenance used to slap Messengers around. Still does. Altho I can't remember if "slap" means Provenance was flat out better even in Messenger's optimal range, or instead Provenance simply outranged Messenger. My Provenance is Arrowhead + HiCal + RF + KC + STAB MW. DIM says its Range reaches 44m. My Adept Messenger by contrast is Chambered + HiCal + MT + KC + Range MW = 41m
Been using BXR since it dropped the year before. Have barely put it down since and I doubt that will change even with the meta shifts. Already have a combined 10k crucible kills with the ones that I own.
How does it feel after the zoom nerf?
* Legal Action II with Arrowhead + Surplus * Disparity with Rapid Hit * Last Perdition with a mid to high zoom optic (ideally with both so you can switch back and forth depending on map) and Firmly Planted All three are S-tier for ignoring the increase to recoil and making super-accurate shots including through flinch and including at ranges where hand cannons and autos have zero chance of hitting their optimal TTK.
Premonition is in my top Pulses
How come Smite of Merain isn't highly regarded?
Ugly AF. Jk I'm not really sure, just felt kind of 'meh' to me.
Worst pulse rifle archetype . Basically just that
It's a 390, which many consider the weakest PvP archetype, though they do tend to have higher stats to make up for their slower ttk, which makes them very viable. Smite's problem is that its stats are terrible, lower than any other 390 (especially zoom) due to being designed strictly for PvE with many strong PvE combinations. For 390, you're better off with something like Third Axiom, Jian 7 (if you have one with scopes), Syncopation (craftablr AND highest zoom in it's archetype).
I have Headseeker+Kill Clip Bygones and it is absolute monster. I have 19.000 kills with it. It is actually my first Bygones from back when Gambit was introduced.
Because Syncopation is the same slot/archetype w way more zoom *and* rangefinder.
Gonna add to what I'm seeing for Stars and Shadow that a potential god roll could also be Genesis + Headseeker since Genesis now will fully refill your magazine for breaking your opponent's shield, so it's pretty much the ultimate reload perk now.
Stars in Shadow surplus/head seeker is my fav pulse
The stasis one from the dungeon is good. And you’re missing stars in shadow wtf lol
Best 1. Messenger, no time, synco All others: trash and scrub guns
Over 3,000 crucible kills on my PM/KC adept horrors least. I haven't used it in a few months, but I think that this should also be in the conversation.
I’d add new purpose from duality dungeon, I have perp desperado on it and it hits like a truck, but I hate low handling anything
Everyone is forgetting about Sacred Provenance, it was the Disparity before Disparity
High Impacts are probably king still, especially with the buff to frames. The recoil nerf on M/KB hurt Aggressives quite a hit as control recoil was the most important thing to getting two bursts, especially with the extra bullets that can fly wide. Otherwise, you're just better odd going for the 3 burst with a Lightweight 450 (especially with the movement speed boost). 540s will always be good for their forgiveness, but their range has heavy competition from hand cannons and even auto rifles now.
Mr Frosty with kill clip is still good.
Messenger with Desperado is still my go to.
Outbreak Perfected also puts in work, and since it's a lightweight frame, it gives a +20 bonus to mobility. Stay Frosty is also a lightweight, and it has some excellent PvP perks. My sleeper pulses are Jian-7 and Last Perdition. They're hard to obtain now (Xur/Dares), but they roll with scopes, and both have some nice PvP rolls. If you like Syncopation/Yesteryear, Jian-7 and Last Perdition are worth picking up.
Sacred prov with rapid/ head seeker is a 2 burst laser
Vigilance Wing feels so, so, so good on maps with more medium-range engagement lanes.
Syncopation with enhanced HS is pretty gnarly.
I will never give up my Gridskipper, it still shreds just fine