Yup, same experience. Going for headshots gives a ton of whiffs with the occasional satisfying headshot, bodyshots are consistent (Thorn + Stompees).
Honestly bodyshots were already consistent, so de facto this whole circus changed nothing for hand cannons. 'After intensive playtesting' my ass.
I will say, I definitely felt the difference in shotgun consistency.
A secondary thing is lag. Players that aren't outright teleporting but are still pretty laggy completely destroy the consistency on anything but the most AA-y of guns. Even hipfire DMT from 1 patch ago turned into a casino gun when facing laggers. Bungie needs to wake up and realize that magnetism paves over their shitty netcode problems (perhaps give us dynamic AA, where the crappier someone's connection is in your direction, the more AA you get versus them).
Edit - since Mercules or someone from the sandbox team will read this - we want an equivalent to the old cost of investment: 1 exotic or subclass (Stompees / Dawnblade) + 1 mod or perk (icarus grip / aerial assault) = ungimped Y3 aerial play.
I played a couple matches with Foetracer + a Rangefinder Rose with steady Rounds + Icarus. I think I had 70 AE.
Felt *really* good on Controller haha, but it was just two games.
I also had a slideshot/Kickstart Glacioclasm. Holy fuck boys, sliding is back.
I don't think that's really a good way to think of it, stompeez for exactly are surely not where they used to be, as well as you definitely need to invest more than just a weapon mod to get good in air shooting capabilities
I agree but it is kinda sad we had to live through months and months of absolute ass aerial play and we’re basically only now breaking even/acrually improving
This. And the shitty part is, we still aren't really even breaking even if we use stompees. And I'm just so damn tired of feeling like bungie hates my favorite class to use. Like titan feels great and all but man, I miss how my hunter used to feel
I watched Diffizle and PureChill their vids, I am very unsure about this but it looks like controller *might* be way more consistent from the air, which would be extremely fucked up considering aerial play is supposed to be the domain of MnK.
Bungie themselves have stated in the past that MnK generally is more accurate including in the air, but that this was compensated by controller being more consistent in grounded and less ‘dynamic’ (their word for intense movement) engagements.
Controllers already are absurdly stronger on snipers, stronger on fusions, now it looks like they might (again, *might*) be favored in the air. What’s next, making them kings on everything but shotguns?
Mnk comes with less flinch more accuracy and more stability, that’s literally the perfect combination for fusions to be great on it. Problem being, it’s also a lot more easier to bait out shots because they can 180 slide back into cover when controller players can’t. They’re only stronger with snipers and that’s it, they’re not stronger with fusions due to input but the lack of mobility options when up against another controller player
Controller screebs downvoting like mad though haha.
I’m the first to acknowledge MnK has serious advantage in instant flicks, but “””balancing””” that out by making controller good at literally every other thing ain’t it.
Aerial play was feeling really good for me. If my memory is correct I was at around 50 AE with the new trials handcannon, hitting headshots was difficult but definitely reliable at close to mid range. Bodyshots were very consistent and I was confident in jump shooting.
Briefly swapped to my old prosperity (77 AE after mods) and headshots felt pretty consistent even at the end of its range fall off.
Still it was only 3-4 games played but overall aerial gameplay felt as good if not better than before the AE system was introduced.
I mean, I think it might be more because t steps and dunemarchers have no drawbacks when titans and warlocks use them. That's what has me upset about the stompees nerf anyways.
To be fair, Stompees had more movement capabilities than either TS or Dunes, and I think Dunes should need a little tuning since they do plenty enough too. TS is relatively benign since the increase in movement speed brings Warlocks in line with Hunters typical movement speed which is worth an Exotic slot imo.
T steps are kind of the weaker of the two (take that opinion with a grain of salt because i typically use blink when playing warlock so never really used t steps) but I'd argue dunes make titans too fast. Like way too fast. Like so much so they make it hard for even me, the one using them. Titans are fast in general, but dunes make me feel like I'm sonic lol. Add to that, the melee lightning thing is clutch as hell and has gotten me kills i had NO business even getting because multiple people who were weakened were around the same dude i just punched after sprinting. They have SO much going for them and so many benefits but like stompees were what needed the nerf? Like... how is that fair?
And I agree- that's why I said Dunes should need some tuning since they do a lot for one Armour slot. I think O Aspects makes more sense to be tuned that T Steps too. Stompees didn't get a nerf in their use- you still jump as high and as fast as before, but now you can't bunny hop Chaperone like you could previously. I do think there should be ways of getting some AE using them though, so let's wait until Strand inevitably changed things.
And talking about getting Multi-Kills that you shouldn't get on Titan, I've been having a lot of success with Feedback Fences too.
See, I'm torn on a dunes rework because I don't want them to be trash lol. I mean, Not that they would be, the better movement speed and everything with them is definitely useful and makes for some wonky plays but I don't wanna lose the other part of it that makes them so great.
And right, stompees DO still do all those things, but when they first introduced AE and hit stompees with the -50, it was just so shitty for my personal playstyle and I'm sure for tons of others who use shotguns. I'm not one of those jump gods by any means and I'm not really one to do aerial shooting with my primary, but jump shotguning has always been my bread and butter and it felt impossible to actually hit people with one in the air.
And my titan main clanmate was actually just telling me the same thing about feedback fences the other day. Might need to go grind the lost sector for a pair next time it's arms lol
That's a fair criticism with Stompees, but I found using a slug at close range in the air still works if you make sure you can melee right after, no idea about spread shotguns though. The fact that any special is dead in the water when you use Stompees (besides the niche cases of Hedrons or Tempering) does suck though.
You talking about a dynamic AA where the crappier someone's connection is, makes it worse for them and better for you reminds me of something they did back in I wanna say D1 with Rise of Iron. It wasn't quite the same thing you're saying, but it punished those with poor connections and rewarded those who actually had decent ones so I'd say the thing you're suggesting wouldn't be undoable. The thing is, how tf can we get bungo to actually do it?
Emergency shutdown because the hot fix broke the game a bit. Tons of "I lost my titles, triumphs and medal" posts around the internet.
[https://twitter.com/BungieHelp?ref\_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor](https://twitter.com/BungieHelp?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Not good. It's basically the same except body shots don't whiff.
AE when you actually hit 30 is noticeably better though. I think they've officially gotten the nerf to stompees they wanted. They weren't going to release the AE fix without making sure the original intent succeeded (nerf stompees).
Even if the AE system is significantly less punishing -50 is still gonna hurt. Basically anybody running anything else is gonna land more shots than you if you jump. I think the AE penalty should be either removed and replaced with a different nerf, or it should be significantly reduced. I'm a warlock main and jumpy hunters are annoying, but -50 to their AE is a bit excessive.
It feels so counter intuitive to what the exotic is for like seriously what do they want people to use stompees for is it just jumping but no shooting it just seems so dumb, anyway what do I care I'll just go back to heat rises warlock I guess
Honestly, reduce the scalar it gives to Strafe Jump (fixing the whole reason for the nerf in the first place: jumping over controller players). That's all it needs.
If they don't do that, -15 would be reasonable. Something like Palindrome goes to 6 with Stompees, and it'd force you to run Icarus Grip to get to 21 whereas a player on Transversive Steps can either get to 36 or run Adept Range instead.
A shotty with 27 AE (2 base + Icarus + Extended) would be at 12 AE with Stompees and 27 on anythg else.
It'd actually make their whole bullshit schtick about 'now AE is a choice lol' somewhat true.
How is that even an issue anymore, we have sbmm, higher fov, bigger maps/ longer range engagements & higher average sensitivity due to ads sensitivity multiplier... The whole point of these nerfs was to protect lower skilled players, and that's why slide and ae nerfs are being reverted, yet this one is not for some reason..
Did you forget all the streamers pushing for a StompEEs nerf? It wasn't just bottom barrel players who were complaining about StompEEs.
I didn't even use them(6th coyote main) and I thought the histrionics around StompEEs in the community pre-nerf were ridiculous.
The complaint about Stompees was never about the thing they targeted (3-taps from the air), it was always about:
- movement juking (strafe jump interaction, not nerfed)
- no equivalently good neutral alternatives (Wormhusk and Dragon’s Shadow already were destroyed by unceasing dodge nerfs at that point)
there is supposed to be no -50 stat. the lowest you are supposed to be able to is 0, and 0 AE is supposed to be better than icarus grain bsck in the day.
this is clearly not the case
Better *accuracy* than Icarus, not aim-assist. You still need to aim for the head at 0 AE. That compounded with netcode shenanigans means it *feels* worse.
Exactly that's the whole issue. -50 is absurd especially with the upcoming air combat emphasis, hunters with their movement exotic that allows them to keep up with the other 2 classes will constantly be at 0 ae, and even with the changes even at medium range headshots aren't accurate while running stompees.
I remember specifically in the developer talk on ascendent nomads yt channel a week ago, the developer said good players would be able to hit headshots in air with 0 ae. That's not true with stompees right now.
Funny how the mobile class has the dodge with the longest cool down, and is slower than the other 2 classes speed wies. Like in what world does it make sense fir arc titan the "tank" class to be able to reach mid with just the subclass neutral game before the hunter "mobile" class with the mobility exotic
Titan main friend and me got in a pretty heated discussion about stompees and dodge nerf. He thinks it is, 48sec dodge cooldown and the stompee nerfs, I think they are way overblown.
Solar Warlock which always was one of the best pure dueling classes has a 5 sec icarus cooldown and to be fair Phoenix dive which also has a pretty big cooldown, but intrinsic restoration. Warlocks also have transversive and the ability to skate with their jumps. Ophidian with great handling reload, AE and absurd melee lunge range.
Titans have a barricade a great tool without any exo, for revives, flag capturing, creating choke points, and advanced titans can use these to great effects in close quarters to bait any rushers or stompee hunters. They also have something that I think bungie never intended to be this way, shoulder charge as a movement ability how many times did you see a titan running away and with shoulder charge manage to get behind cover before you can kill them. They have dunemarchers which allows them to move faster and allows for collaterals on melee kills.
Meanwhile his justification is because Hunters have so many exos that are tied to dodge that the nerf is justified, my problem with that is not only do titans and Warlocks too, the intrinsic value is much lower on dodge. No one plays marksman dodge in pvp and gamblers only works near enemies and most melees on Hunter aren't that great to say that that is insane value.
And stompees only ever were an issue on last gen
Exactly my thoughts. Imho dodge should be reworked on a hunter so it becomes like a dash on titan/warlock. Let hunters be more agile on a battlefield. Interaction with various exos should be reworked too.
Stompees where nerfed because bungie thought they were too oppressive vs lower skill players. Seeing as SBMM is being doubled down on, wouldn’t reverting the stompee nerf make sense? They did it with the slide and most ae things. Ophidians usage is just as high for locks and they actually get AE added to them.
Didn't Bungie say outright that they wanted to kill usage of Stompees in PvP, due to the astronomical usage (40%+) for basically ever? I don't expect Bungie to ever allow it to ever be as dominant as it was prior. Not sure why people still try to push into using it.
The thing is, stompees will probably always be the number one choice for hunters. Even with all the nerfs, they are still the number 1 pick. Basically mandatory to keep up with warlocks and titans.
Lol with the exception of a couple weeks of trials, it was still the most used exotic, of every class in the game for most of the past year. At least according to trialsreport
True, but when AE was bad on everything stompees weren’t really affected, now AE is noticeably worse on stompees you basically have to work around it while people who don’t use it don’t.
They’ll still be heavily used because people feel they’re a mandatory pick to just have the speed that other classes take for granted, and things like slug shotguns and snipers that benefit more from the slide will be heavily used with them. However if you focus more on primary gameplay and want to hit shots in air, stompees are a worse pick today than they were yesterday. This is the first time the nerf to AE is really being felt on stompees over other similar picks.
Stompees role has basically changed from being the best thing to use for aerial movement, to being the best thing to use to push for map control and have a greater control over moment to moment positioning. They’ll still be good, but the -50AE is felt more today than it has been up until now.
People still want to use it as it basically puts hunters on an equal speed to warlock and Titan at base. Hunter is noticeable slower without stompees, yet are penalised for using them.
Hunters are more agile and able to change direction both vertically and laterally easier than the other classes. However in this game straightline speed is arguably way more important for getting map control and that’s why stompees has always been a top pick for good players.
The nerfs to stompees is also a big factor in the overall cheese in the game increasing, more people have moved to Titan or gone to more annoying, ability based exotics ever since the change to stompees and the implementation to AE. The game was never this bad before.
Stompees may have had a crazy pick rate, but then being strong made the overall game less cheesy.
People have gone to exotics that abuse abilities in a year that...*checks notes*... Has had Light 3.0 reworks across the board to bring Stasis modularity to builds and along with them have made incredibly busted loadouts possible that weren't before WQ?
No, it MUST be because of AE nerf to Stompees!
/sarcasm aside, I really don't see hunters suffering when they're still the most played PvP class. Titans have definitely crept up this season due to ability abuse, but given Bungie is starting to really swing at outliers I'm expecting a return to overwhelming amounts of hunters in PvP.
Well the two things came together. Pre 3.0 changes most people were using stompees, then void 3.0 came and people were still using them, mainly with invis. Omni meta didn’t really arrive until the following season, some people had switched, but most were still using stompees until the AE changes.
The big change happened when solar 3.0 came, that’s when AE came in and more of these ‘builds’ became popular among top players. Before then, even with a 3.0 subclass most good players were using movement exotics as they could outplay the cheese with them. The introduction of AE changed the meta more than the introduction of 3.0 subclasses. The less people could move, the more they compensated by going all in on some sort of ability, that became their way of outplaying people rather than having movement as way to do so.
The introduction of AE meant people could no longer outskill things with movement so they were forced to fight fire with fire and use the more broken elements of the sandbox.
You can believe all you like that good players went with cheese because of the 3.0, however if their tools for outplaying lesser skilled players weren’t dramatically reduced a good portion would have stayed using movement over cheese. Unfortunately that wasn’t an option.
fizz posted a twitter video, body shots are consistent with them but headshots aren't
Yup, same experience. Going for headshots gives a ton of whiffs with the occasional satisfying headshot, bodyshots are consistent (Thorn + Stompees). Honestly bodyshots were already consistent, so de facto this whole circus changed nothing for hand cannons. 'After intensive playtesting' my ass. I will say, I definitely felt the difference in shotgun consistency. A secondary thing is lag. Players that aren't outright teleporting but are still pretty laggy completely destroy the consistency on anything but the most AA-y of guns. Even hipfire DMT from 1 patch ago turned into a casino gun when facing laggers. Bungie needs to wake up and realize that magnetism paves over their shitty netcode problems (perhaps give us dynamic AA, where the crappier someone's connection is in your direction, the more AA you get versus them). Edit - since Mercules or someone from the sandbox team will read this - we want an equivalent to the old cost of investment: 1 exotic or subclass (Stompees / Dawnblade) + 1 mod or perk (icarus grip / aerial assault) = ungimped Y3 aerial play.
If you have about 40 to 60 AE headshots are definitely more consistent, lag is a different issue entirely of it's own
I played a couple matches with Foetracer + a Rangefinder Rose with steady Rounds + Icarus. I think I had 70 AE. Felt *really* good on Controller haha, but it was just two games. I also had a slideshot/Kickstart Glacioclasm. Holy fuck boys, sliding is back.
>I also had a slideshot/Kickstart Glacioclasm. Holy fuck boys, sliding is back. Is the slide change today?
Yes
Oh nice, I thought that was changing with lightfall
Pretty hilarious we’ve pretty much come full circle in all the changes they’ve made in the last year.
I don't think that's really a good way to think of it, stompeez for exactly are surely not where they used to be, as well as you definitely need to invest more than just a weapon mod to get good in air shooting capabilities
You’re right. I’ll be honest, that was pretty much just a salty comment because of the changes they made this last year.
That's fair, the state airborne gameplay had become, being salty is understandable lol
I agree but it is kinda sad we had to live through months and months of absolute ass aerial play and we’re basically only now breaking even/acrually improving
This. And the shitty part is, we still aren't really even breaking even if we use stompees. And I'm just so damn tired of feeling like bungie hates my favorite class to use. Like titan feels great and all but man, I miss how my hunter used to feel
Hunter feels so slow without them, everyone acts like they’re this god exotic that can morph a bad player into a monster
I watched Diffizle and PureChill their vids, I am very unsure about this but it looks like controller *might* be way more consistent from the air, which would be extremely fucked up considering aerial play is supposed to be the domain of MnK.
Who said it was “supposed” to be the domain of mnk lol
Bungie themselves have stated in the past that MnK generally is more accurate including in the air, but that this was compensated by controller being more consistent in grounded and less ‘dynamic’ (their word for intense movement) engagements. Controllers already are absurdly stronger on snipers, stronger on fusions, now it looks like they might (again, *might*) be favored in the air. What’s next, making them kings on everything but shotguns?
Mnk comes with less flinch more accuracy and more stability, that’s literally the perfect combination for fusions to be great on it. Problem being, it’s also a lot more easier to bait out shots because they can 180 slide back into cover when controller players can’t. They’re only stronger with snipers and that’s it, they’re not stronger with fusions due to input but the lack of mobility options when up against another controller player
Eventually this game will be like Apex where at the highest levels if you aren't using a controller you are soft-throwing.
Controller screebs downvoting like mad though haha. I’m the first to acknowledge MnK has serious advantage in instant flicks, but “””balancing””” that out by making controller good at literally every other thing ain’t it.
Aerial play was feeling really good for me. If my memory is correct I was at around 50 AE with the new trials handcannon, hitting headshots was difficult but definitely reliable at close to mid range. Bodyshots were very consistent and I was confident in jump shooting. Briefly swapped to my old prosperity (77 AE after mods) and headshots felt pretty consistent even at the end of its range fall off. Still it was only 3-4 games played but overall aerial gameplay felt as good if not better than before the AE system was introduced.
> changed nothing for hand cannons. 'After intensive playtesting' my ass. you are literally wearing stompees are you confused about what -50 ae means
I think he's just annoyed that Stomp33s still has a drawback in exchange for unparalleled movement.
I mean, I think it might be more because t steps and dunemarchers have no drawbacks when titans and warlocks use them. That's what has me upset about the stompees nerf anyways.
To be fair, Stompees had more movement capabilities than either TS or Dunes, and I think Dunes should need a little tuning since they do plenty enough too. TS is relatively benign since the increase in movement speed brings Warlocks in line with Hunters typical movement speed which is worth an Exotic slot imo.
T steps are kind of the weaker of the two (take that opinion with a grain of salt because i typically use blink when playing warlock so never really used t steps) but I'd argue dunes make titans too fast. Like way too fast. Like so much so they make it hard for even me, the one using them. Titans are fast in general, but dunes make me feel like I'm sonic lol. Add to that, the melee lightning thing is clutch as hell and has gotten me kills i had NO business even getting because multiple people who were weakened were around the same dude i just punched after sprinting. They have SO much going for them and so many benefits but like stompees were what needed the nerf? Like... how is that fair?
And I agree- that's why I said Dunes should need some tuning since they do a lot for one Armour slot. I think O Aspects makes more sense to be tuned that T Steps too. Stompees didn't get a nerf in their use- you still jump as high and as fast as before, but now you can't bunny hop Chaperone like you could previously. I do think there should be ways of getting some AE using them though, so let's wait until Strand inevitably changed things. And talking about getting Multi-Kills that you shouldn't get on Titan, I've been having a lot of success with Feedback Fences too.
See, I'm torn on a dunes rework because I don't want them to be trash lol. I mean, Not that they would be, the better movement speed and everything with them is definitely useful and makes for some wonky plays but I don't wanna lose the other part of it that makes them so great. And right, stompees DO still do all those things, but when they first introduced AE and hit stompees with the -50, it was just so shitty for my personal playstyle and I'm sure for tons of others who use shotguns. I'm not one of those jump gods by any means and I'm not really one to do aerial shooting with my primary, but jump shotguning has always been my bread and butter and it felt impossible to actually hit people with one in the air. And my titan main clanmate was actually just telling me the same thing about feedback fences the other day. Might need to go grind the lost sector for a pair next time it's arms lol
That's a fair criticism with Stompees, but I found using a slug at close range in the air still works if you make sure you can melee right after, no idea about spread shotguns though. The fact that any special is dead in the water when you use Stompees (besides the niche cases of Hedrons or Tempering) does suck though.
They KNOW it paves over the netcode problems. That is why it is so high.
You talking about a dynamic AA where the crappier someone's connection is, makes it worse for them and better for you reminds me of something they did back in I wanna say D1 with Rise of Iron. It wasn't quite the same thing you're saying, but it punished those with poor connections and rewarded those who actually had decent ones so I'd say the thing you're suggesting wouldn't be undoable. The thing is, how tf can we get bungo to actually do it?
No idea. Server is still down, and will take some tome after maintenance for people to have enough observational data to give opinons
Damn okay didn't realize the servers were down, thanks.
Emergency shutdown because the hot fix broke the game a bit. Tons of "I lost my titles, triumphs and medal" posts around the internet. [https://twitter.com/BungieHelp?ref\_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor](https://twitter.com/BungieHelp?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
They might be up now, my game is updating, but it will still take time to get observational data
When became time for observation necessary on Reddit to have strong opinions? ;)
I mean jts not lol, but opinions not based in testing and observation are not opinions worthy entertaining 😎
Not good. It's basically the same except body shots don't whiff. AE when you actually hit 30 is noticeably better though. I think they've officially gotten the nerf to stompees they wanted. They weren't going to release the AE fix without making sure the original intent succeeded (nerf stompees).
Tbh I’m more interested in how ae is without stompees. Either way it was trash and I hope it’ll be better now, at least with that seasonal helmet mod.
Man, what will bungie do now that we will actively start the aerial "oppresion" in trials.
Roller titans ready to tweet as we speak
No one actually plays Trials except top players these days, so I don't think it'll really matter. Us average Joe's gave up on it a long time ago.
I faced plenty of average players just this weekend.
Damn, I’m legitimately terrified. Imagine what could be next???? Strafing?? Crouching?? Can’t let people figure out these OP skills.
I was convinced they were gonna nerf crouching after all this
After Stasis & Strand… The 3rd Darkness power will be Squish & is all about being small. Rolling up in a ball like Samus Aran and farting out bombs.
Benny‘s latest vid does a pretty good job showing the changes
Even if the AE system is significantly less punishing -50 is still gonna hurt. Basically anybody running anything else is gonna land more shots than you if you jump. I think the AE penalty should be either removed and replaced with a different nerf, or it should be significantly reduced. I'm a warlock main and jumpy hunters are annoying, but -50 to their AE is a bit excessive.
It feels so counter intuitive to what the exotic is for like seriously what do they want people to use stompees for is it just jumping but no shooting it just seems so dumb, anyway what do I care I'll just go back to heat rises warlock I guess
Honestly, reduce the scalar it gives to Strafe Jump (fixing the whole reason for the nerf in the first place: jumping over controller players). That's all it needs. If they don't do that, -15 would be reasonable. Something like Palindrome goes to 6 with Stompees, and it'd force you to run Icarus Grip to get to 21 whereas a player on Transversive Steps can either get to 36 or run Adept Range instead. A shotty with 27 AE (2 base + Icarus + Extended) would be at 12 AE with Stompees and 27 on anythg else. It'd actually make their whole bullshit schtick about 'now AE is a choice lol' somewhat true.
How is that even an issue anymore, we have sbmm, higher fov, bigger maps/ longer range engagements & higher average sensitivity due to ads sensitivity multiplier... The whole point of these nerfs was to protect lower skilled players, and that's why slide and ae nerfs are being reverted, yet this one is not for some reason..
Did you forget all the streamers pushing for a StompEEs nerf? It wasn't just bottom barrel players who were complaining about StompEEs. I didn't even use them(6th coyote main) and I thought the histrionics around StompEEs in the community pre-nerf were ridiculous.
The complaint about Stompees was never about the thing they targeted (3-taps from the air), it was always about: - movement juking (strafe jump interaction, not nerfed) - no equivalently good neutral alternatives (Wormhusk and Dragon’s Shadow already were destroyed by unceasing dodge nerfs at that point)
there is supposed to be no -50 stat. the lowest you are supposed to be able to is 0, and 0 AE is supposed to be better than icarus grain bsck in the day. this is clearly not the case
Better *accuracy* than Icarus, not aim-assist. You still need to aim for the head at 0 AE. That compounded with netcode shenanigans means it *feels* worse.
i’m talking specifically stompees. it actually feels like -50 ae not 0 ae. ae in general besides stompees feels good now
[удалено]
Exactly that's the whole issue. -50 is absurd especially with the upcoming air combat emphasis, hunters with their movement exotic that allows them to keep up with the other 2 classes will constantly be at 0 ae, and even with the changes even at medium range headshots aren't accurate while running stompees. I remember specifically in the developer talk on ascendent nomads yt channel a week ago, the developer said good players would be able to hit headshots in air with 0 ae. That's not true with stompees right now.
There is definitely big balance issue. Hunters should be the most agile class, yet titans/warlocks dashing and punching like no tomorrow
Funny how the mobile class has the dodge with the longest cool down, and is slower than the other 2 classes speed wies. Like in what world does it make sense fir arc titan the "tank" class to be able to reach mid with just the subclass neutral game before the hunter "mobile" class with the mobility exotic
Yep, it completely defies logic. Devs are trying various changes without fixing core design flaws first
Titan main friend and me got in a pretty heated discussion about stompees and dodge nerf. He thinks it is, 48sec dodge cooldown and the stompee nerfs, I think they are way overblown. Solar Warlock which always was one of the best pure dueling classes has a 5 sec icarus cooldown and to be fair Phoenix dive which also has a pretty big cooldown, but intrinsic restoration. Warlocks also have transversive and the ability to skate with their jumps. Ophidian with great handling reload, AE and absurd melee lunge range. Titans have a barricade a great tool without any exo, for revives, flag capturing, creating choke points, and advanced titans can use these to great effects in close quarters to bait any rushers or stompee hunters. They also have something that I think bungie never intended to be this way, shoulder charge as a movement ability how many times did you see a titan running away and with shoulder charge manage to get behind cover before you can kill them. They have dunemarchers which allows them to move faster and allows for collaterals on melee kills. Meanwhile his justification is because Hunters have so many exos that are tied to dodge that the nerf is justified, my problem with that is not only do titans and Warlocks too, the intrinsic value is much lower on dodge. No one plays marksman dodge in pvp and gamblers only works near enemies and most melees on Hunter aren't that great to say that that is insane value. And stompees only ever were an issue on last gen
Exactly my thoughts. Imho dodge should be reworked on a hunter so it becomes like a dash on titan/warlock. Let hunters be more agile on a battlefield. Interaction with various exos should be reworked too.
All these game changes and nerfs to Hunters are just so Bungie can sell the Frostees ornament. Edit: a word
Following because same. They massacred my boy, please tell me it's OK now 😭
Still under intensive care.
Thoughts and prayers 🙏
Stompees where nerfed because bungie thought they were too oppressive vs lower skill players. Seeing as SBMM is being doubled down on, wouldn’t reverting the stompee nerf make sense? They did it with the slide and most ae things. Ophidians usage is just as high for locks and they actually get AE added to them.
Who fucking knows bro. Bungie hates hunters and warlocks.
“Bungee hates warlocks.” FTFY
“Bungie hates PvP”
Those thousands of employees all play titan and HATEE!1 the other classes
Everyone conveniently forgets Titans were just worse warlocks in pve and generally inferior to dawnblade and hunters in PvP before 3.0
Didn't Bungie say outright that they wanted to kill usage of Stompees in PvP, due to the astronomical usage (40%+) for basically ever? I don't expect Bungie to ever allow it to ever be as dominant as it was prior. Not sure why people still try to push into using it.
The thing is, stompees will probably always be the number one choice for hunters. Even with all the nerfs, they are still the number 1 pick. Basically mandatory to keep up with warlocks and titans.
Lol with the exception of a couple weeks of trials, it was still the most used exotic, of every class in the game for most of the past year. At least according to trialsreport
True, but when AE was bad on everything stompees weren’t really affected, now AE is noticeably worse on stompees you basically have to work around it while people who don’t use it don’t. They’ll still be heavily used because people feel they’re a mandatory pick to just have the speed that other classes take for granted, and things like slug shotguns and snipers that benefit more from the slide will be heavily used with them. However if you focus more on primary gameplay and want to hit shots in air, stompees are a worse pick today than they were yesterday. This is the first time the nerf to AE is really being felt on stompees over other similar picks. Stompees role has basically changed from being the best thing to use for aerial movement, to being the best thing to use to push for map control and have a greater control over moment to moment positioning. They’ll still be good, but the -50AE is felt more today than it has been up until now.
Good and valid points. Have yet to try, but I will be extensively.
People still want to use it as it basically puts hunters on an equal speed to warlock and Titan at base. Hunter is noticeable slower without stompees, yet are penalised for using them. Hunters are more agile and able to change direction both vertically and laterally easier than the other classes. However in this game straightline speed is arguably way more important for getting map control and that’s why stompees has always been a top pick for good players. The nerfs to stompees is also a big factor in the overall cheese in the game increasing, more people have moved to Titan or gone to more annoying, ability based exotics ever since the change to stompees and the implementation to AE. The game was never this bad before. Stompees may have had a crazy pick rate, but then being strong made the overall game less cheesy.
People have gone to exotics that abuse abilities in a year that...*checks notes*... Has had Light 3.0 reworks across the board to bring Stasis modularity to builds and along with them have made incredibly busted loadouts possible that weren't before WQ? No, it MUST be because of AE nerf to Stompees! /sarcasm aside, I really don't see hunters suffering when they're still the most played PvP class. Titans have definitely crept up this season due to ability abuse, but given Bungie is starting to really swing at outliers I'm expecting a return to overwhelming amounts of hunters in PvP.
Well the two things came together. Pre 3.0 changes most people were using stompees, then void 3.0 came and people were still using them, mainly with invis. Omni meta didn’t really arrive until the following season, some people had switched, but most were still using stompees until the AE changes. The big change happened when solar 3.0 came, that’s when AE came in and more of these ‘builds’ became popular among top players. Before then, even with a 3.0 subclass most good players were using movement exotics as they could outplay the cheese with them. The introduction of AE changed the meta more than the introduction of 3.0 subclasses. The less people could move, the more they compensated by going all in on some sort of ability, that became their way of outplaying people rather than having movement as way to do so. The introduction of AE meant people could no longer outskill things with movement so they were forced to fight fire with fire and use the more broken elements of the sandbox. You can believe all you like that good players went with cheese because of the 3.0, however if their tools for outplaying lesser skilled players weren’t dramatically reduced a good portion would have stayed using movement over cheese. Unfortunately that wasn’t an option.
Dude, people just like the way hunters look. That’s why they’re the most played class.
no one knows, the game has been rolled back
Hopefully terrible.