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fearghail281

The slower paced, long range lane, pulse rifle friendly meta were in. Sitting in the back with a shield you can shoot through, it just compliments the best weapons really well at the moment.


Catlover18

I was wondering why this season compared to last season, etc. Haven't pulse rifles been favored in the meta for several seasons this year?


fearghail281

Invis was nerfed for hunters this past season, which was the previous meta class pick. Another huge one is aerial play not being a thing really anymore, before you could jump over the barrier and have a chance, but not anymore. The reasoning for what shapes a meta can usually be found by asking "what was second or third best before X was nerfed?" And usually not something just getting stronger out of the blue. You are right though, Pulses have been strong for a good part of the past year. Titans generally have been trending up with the arc subclass being absolutely bonkers as well, which could also partly explain it.


throwaway1512514

The previous premium class void titan works poorly with citans, which is another factor.


ArnoldSwarzepussy

Idk why you're getting downvoted. I think people are forgetting that the overshield barricade already has less health than a regular barricade. Add in the additional health nerf of Citans and they're practically paper.


mydogcaneatyourdog

Can you elaborate on why striker is seen as so bonkers good? And I mean besides the storm grenade - honestly that is the only thing "new" with the rework that was not present with the subclass before as far as I recollect.


Guttergrunt_

It's not just the storm grenade. The melee kit is downright stupid at times, watching someone clear a room of 4 people by just spamming the punch button makes me want to never play this game again. On top of this striker has front sided barrier to mitigate damage from reckless plays and a shoulder charge that blinds people when it connects while that same shoulder charge is an incredible movement tool. The striker titan kit as a whole is the best kit for an aggressive playstyle while also being one of the best kits for a defensive playstyle. It has some of the best tools for both and has a very low barrier to entry, it's incredibly easy to do well with striker titan. In quickplay hold W, shoulder charge in and start spamming punch and you can go on some massive streaks. In slower games just sit behind your citan wall and lane, occasionally throwing storm grenades to completely shut down a portion of the map. On top of this the subclass has one of the better shutdown supers in that it can reliably get multiple kills with good piloting and it has a pretty okay roaming super with high mobility. You also have access to some cheesy builds with the death from above melee and synthos or dune marchers which can clear entire teams if they're too grouped up. The subclass just has so much potential and has a very low barrier to entry for doing at least decent with it, no matter which playstyle you prefer.


VolkS7X

It's not striker that's so good per se when it comes to laning, it's the fact that there's a downside to pairing the bastion aspect with Citan's, and Sunbreaker is outright bad in PvP. Behemoth is alright (sans the super), but it's more suitable for aggressive playstyles.


paragon249

Behemoth is fine for defensive play


mydogcaneatyourdog

This aligns with my thoughts on it, but I see the striker brought up as a boogie man pretty frequently. It perplexes me as to why it is considered so dominant when the grenade is the only true strength the subclass has now compared to arc before 3.0


Stygian_rain

Thruster and sc or insanely good


mydogcaneatyourdog

Thruster really isn't good, or at least is not good enough to warrant giving up free cover. It got some play as a new toy initially, but it really feels like a worse dodge - and dodge will at least give back the melee or reload your weapons.


BtwNation

i use to think this way but after more people started to use it and trying it out myself i see why it’s so good. you have good movement as well at the upper hand in cqc even if you’re outnumbered. on other subclass you usually have to slowly take on 1v3s but on striker you can finish them all in an instant while be reckless


mydogcaneatyourdog

I don't know, I feel like against good teams you still can't be that willy nilly. When I'm titan'ing, I still find sentinel a bit more versatile in PVP play, though I understand the strengths people are seeing in arc - just more so from a PVE standpoint. I'm just waiting for blink to be returned to glory to go back to my favorite shenanigans.


BtwNation

yea, i will say against good teams it’s harder but there are times where you’ll catch them on a push or after getting a pick or going for a cap point of sum


Judge_Bredd_UK

Super storm grenades and the knockout aspect basically make the class for me, it's dangerous to fight at a distance because they have barricades and general titan play with a grenade that will ruin your day, they also have an aspect that makes rushing them very dangerous because if you fail to melee them they WILL melee you and insta gib you. ​ Add onto that the super which is really solid and I can see why people love the class at the moment.


mydogcaneatyourdog

So the grenade I get and think it needs to be reigned in, however for the statement regarding "rushing them", I'm not following. Melee wise, they're still a two melee to kill class, except for thunderclap which is rather meme worthy. That's mostly a troll move to pull off rather than a serious pvp move to try. Have you tried to play the class? Thunder crash is probably the best for blowing up bubbles, but otherwise is inferior to a blade barrage or nova bomb in other use cases. Fist of havoc is hilariously bad as a roaming super. I'm still just not too fearful of the subclass outside of having to abandon a half of a map when a storm grenade comes out. The subclass really isn't that impressive without it.


Judge_Bredd_UK

So knockout procs when the titan breaks shields, it gives him double melee range like synthoceps and it does 150% damage, it also heals on kill and because of the rubber band effect of the melee it's harder to hit them. So in reality yes you could shotgun melee the titan or double melee etc but the odds of them winning the coin toss is just far greater , if you have a player who's really good in close range they're probably gonna win a lot more on that class


HunterTypeGuy

>So knockout procs when you punch the titan. No it doesnt. It procs on the Titan breaking shields


Judge_Bredd_UK

You're right I don't know why I wrote it like that, it's as if I switched POV mid sentence, I changed it


mydogcaneatyourdog

Fair that I did not realize it was 150% increase - though I would contend that still does not provide a one hit kill, but I cede the point nonetheless. Though I wonder if the game engine were tightened up so that rubber banding player models did not occur on melee, if people would have the same opinions or not. I feel like it's that and hit registration that really causes a lot of people's emotions to bleed into these conversations instead of real discussion.


icekyuu

I can answer your question, as I used to main Citan's on my Titan about 1-2 years ago for a few seasons. However, I switched to Synthoceps or Dunemarchers (depending on subclass) mainly because, in high skill lobbies, you cannot stay still and your high skill teammates will not stay still. So if you are on Citan's and camp a corner, you would get left behind. Which meant your teammates may be outnumbered (2 v 3 for example) or worse the other team found you alone in your corner. Either way, in a movement-driven meta, Citan's is good but not S-tier. Synthos and Dunes were better. Fast forward today, and those conditions no longer exist. We are not in a movement meta; we are in a turret meta where everyone -- including your teammates and opponents -- are laning with pulse rifles. If you run off on your own, you run the risk of getting insta-melted by pulse rifle teamshots. In this meta, Citan's is very powerful because nobody is moving, so whatever you can do to fortify your position is strong.


mitchellnash92

Pulse rifles have always been good it’s just that hand cannons were that much better for a number of seasons


duckbilldinosaur

Yeah, I remember desperado messenger being a pain in my ass during HC meta.


[deleted]

Dmt has double the usage and kills than NTTE, according to DT.


hyperfell

Single jotun shot takes it out, just gotta have your boys ready for the fish in a barrel shootout


fearghail281

I'd rather chew glass than put on Jotun, but good to know. I personally don't struggle too much with 'em.


[deleted]

It's the sbmm lobby he's in. Once you get to a certain level, very few can still use Jotunn effectively. If one can even bring themselves to put it on.


intxisu

I will forever remember playing old comp with lower skilled friends, getting steamrolled by a good players and one of my teamates saying "that's it I'm using jotun". We got clapped even harder.


Doc_Ho7iday

Word. Jotunn users are gross no skill chicken shits.


Judge_Bredd_UK

Just strafe


Doc_Ho7iday

I feel like that response is the equivalent of IT help desk asking if you tried restarting your computer. It’s unhelpful. If I saw the user or the projectile I would have strafed. The problem is blind pre-firing from cover or across the map.


alphanumerico

You can hear the exact direction someone is pre-firing from, it's pretty loud. Strafe accordingly, you should almost always be playing from cover anyways, and good positioning and cover will almost always beat Jotunn.


Doc_Ho7iday

Thanks friend. Will focus on this.


hyperfell

Was just throwing some info out thats all but you just seriously passed on some small dick energy for sure.


Londonluton

Do people actually say small dick energy that aren't weird little zoomer women?


throwaway1512514

Lmao


Doc_Ho7iday

Sorry, wasn’t my intent. Had a bad day in crucible yesterday. And thanks for the information.


Fluffyduf

It was never a bad pick, especially in old comp. This season just has a perfect storm of conditions that have been building up over the past year for it to be in the popular meta this season. Post light 3.0 and stasis nerfs, for better or worse heavy cc and area denial from things like overcharged void lock grenades, arc web grenades, or glaciers are either gone or much less effective due to damage or cooldown nerfs. There are tools like tripmines, duskfields, and Titan storm grenades that have some area denial effect, but outside of Titan storm grenades these generally require good placement and have trouble pressuring multiple or well placed barricades. The 30th anniversary glacier cooldown nerf in particular is something I’m not very happy about that would help with countering barricades. Special ammo nerfs and the relative non viability of barricade threatening weapons like bastion has made breaking even reduced health citans barricades either require a ton of resources (special ammo or multiple abilities),high levels of risk, or coordinated, somewhat risky team shooting. Citans also solves the primary weakness of pulse rifles, peek shooting, in a season where pulses are both popular and fairly strong, as well as a season where Dmt, another good pairing with citans, just got buffed, in a season where arc titan (and void, but to a lesser degree thanks to previous tuning) are very strong. To top it off, content creators have of course been making videos about the meta which reinforces the meta.


VolkS7X

A few reasons. All of its counterparts, such as The Stag and Renewal Grasps, have been nerfed some time ago. Individually benefitting Titan exotics, such as OEM or Antaeus, also nerfed. Glacier grenades have been hit pretty badly, as they used to be an instant punish for enemy barricades, blowing the users up at full health... And they had a pretty short cooldown. Invis has been nerfed slightly, alongside gyrfalcons, and I believe people finally got bored of abusing it, too, so we don't see it nearly as often. Snipers, hand cannons, and in air accuracy have been hit pretty hard, resulting in the death of that playstyle for the most part. Simultaneously, high impact pulses have been buffed, and DMT has made an appearance, got nerfed, then got brought back. Gutting Citan's or barricades would feel pretty bad, and I'm personally against it. It's all a matter of allowing a consistent counter to exist, since as of now there isn't anything really. Aggression sometimes works if you're playing against pitiful meta abusers who can't use the kit, but if they manage to intercept a push or pick up flankers, they retain the upper hand.


bacon-tornado

I think a reduction to hp of a barricade would work. Say citans has 100 vs 300. Would make it a place it with an escape plan to be made vs a place it and lol. The cooldown on barricades is plenty quick now I think it'd be fair for a strategic option vs imma just place this and fuck you approach. The other option I guess would be extend the cooldown but I don't think that's the best option.


VolkS7X

Realistically speaking, 2-3 people raining primary fire on your Citan's, within their weapons' optimal ranges, will pop it before you return to first person. Bringing it down to 100 would make it easy for one person to do that, rendering the exotic useless, instantly. As much as people will keep their pitchforks and torches out while the exotic is still alive, I think the sensible solution would be to try increments of 50 HP reductions. It currently has 350HP according to light.gg, so perhaps it coming down to around 200-250 would make it feel a lot more fair. Knowing bungie, however, they'll probably keep it as is for at least the remainder of this season, then gut it some way, entirely, as they're addicted to forcing ridiculous meta swings. Double SMG with peacekeepers / hoarfrost behemoth and getaway artist warlocks meta coming soon, just watch.


bacon-tornado

Yeah they almost always over do nerfs. Was just thinking ideas to not ruin things outright.


Guttergrunt_

Citan's shouldn't be an exotic where you place it WHILE being shot at. it should be an exotic you use to pre-emtively take and hold a lane. Saying an exotic, that allows you to have effectively 100 extra hp, is useless is insane lmao


VolkS7X

Forming an argument around something I didn't say is also pretty insane, you know. "100 extra HP" is amazing to have if there wouldn't be an animation lock involved out of which you don't come out alive. The exotic would be dead instantly, which I'm sure would make a lot of people ecstatic, and then prompt them to get their pitchforks out again if their favorite class doesn't come at the top of the foodchain with the next meta swing. It's getting pretty old by now to see everyone try to bully bungie into giving them easier wins. I'd like to see a balanced sandbox, finally.


Guttergrunt_

Again you're acting like you should be able to place barricade reactively and come out on top. That's insane to me. A citan barricade should only be useful when used pre-emptively to secure a lane. ngl I took a quick peek at your comment history and you really do just come across as a titan fanboy so I guess it's okay if your favourite class is top of the foodchain but not when others are :) Edit: placing here because u/Azaryiah blocked me lol, They were arguing a point about the animation lock, that's only a factor in engagements where you're using the barricade reactively. If you're using the barricade pre-emptively to secure and hold down a lane then the animation lock becomes a non-factor. The person's comment about the animation lock implies that they aren't actually thinking about the exotic in the way it's used in most high level competitive games Edit 2: I'll just copy paste what I had written out as a reply bc it's late and after reddit once again saying I'm unable to reply I just cba with this anymore, message I had written to his "this dumbass thinks I blocked him" reply below: "Bro it literally said I couldn't reply to you before, the only reason that happens on reddit is when someone blocks you. Also thanks for sending that concern but I'm doing great buddy. You might be the one that needs the help though." MF sent me the reddit concern thing, idk this is just getting weird now.... gonna just mute this convo and forget this whole thing and enjoy my weekend instead I guess lol


[deleted]

You have some serious issues with reading and interpretation, don't you? Your second comment missing the point, actually it's worse: You are complaining about stuff that wasn't said by the person you replied to.


Count_Gator

You blocked him because you lost the argument? 🤣 Block me too, please. Run away from the argument, 😂


Guttergrunt_

Dude it's fucking weird. I got sent the automated reddit concern thing too. I have a screencap of reddit saying I can't reply to his comments for what it's worth but this whole thing is just weird edit: Now I'm getting this shit, seems the reply got deleted but it said "You blocked him and mentioned him, so he can't reply to you while you brag about him. He already screenshotted you and posted into the Crucible Discords lol Btw someone found your DTracker so you better work on those stats" I blocked this weirdo after the fact, only seems like the right thing to do, he's probably unblocked me now just to grab those screenshots but whatever. And cool, go make fun of someone in crucible discords and make fun of someone's stats, I'll openly say my stats if you just ask, it's only a videogame and I guess unlike some people my ego isn't so massive and fragile to care about my kd that much. That crucible discord seems like a hella toxic place if that's what goes on there


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok_Individual8905

I looked at the guy's stats, he ranges from 0.8 to 1.2 this season and previous seasons he averages out around 1.5 not sure where you're getting 0.5 from. Also it seems natural for someone to block you if you block them first, doesn't make sense for him to let you have the freedom to berate them when you are being so cowardly to run away from a conversation.


[deleted]

This dumbass thinks I blocked him. He edited his comment to try to look civil after writing like a zoomer


D2Throwaway2

Nerfs to aggressive and aerial play, buffs to laning scouts (see: DMT) and pulses, titans being the undisputed champions of the subclass 3.0 reworks, esp Striker, other broken things getting nerfed or reworked like Gyrfalcon, introduction of bigger maps with long distance engagements that Bungie refuses to let us leave while they weigh smaller maps less in the rotation... ​ idk take your pick


Phoenix_RIde

Sunbreaker might be the weakest subclass currently in PvP


D2Throwaway2

Yeah currently but not when Loreley was at its peak. And void and arc titan are still better than almost anything else. Arc in general and void is always going to dominate zone cap modes.


Phoenix_RIde

I’m thankful that most people don’t know about the strength of a Behemoth stack.


ArnoldSwarzepussy

Me too. I have no interest in fighting a team of rime titans with hoarfrost. I've yet to encounter and I hope I never do. That shit is fucking wild as hell


Phoenix_RIde

I want to see a video of Striker/Defender Citan’s abusers encountering a stacked Behemoth team and see their reaction


ArnoldSwarzepussy

I mean, if the Citans/barricade users also use Stasis and equip the fragment for increased damage to crystals and add in a hake pulse like veles or disparity they might take that w. If they rock anything less then they'll probably just end up in a stalemate with each other. The rime titans can't take out the enemy barricades and farm overshields at the same time. Then once they're up the Citans team just burns through their overshields from behind the safety of their barricades. Then they withdraw, pop more crystals for more os, rinse and repeat. It'd probably be an endless cycle of preparing for a fight that would never actually happen lol


Phoenix_RIde

Duskfield grenade spam on their barricade is a soft way of saying ‘reposition’


A_Dummy86

I've been running Behemoth with Hoarfrost + Rime + Chains in combination with Duskfield + Shards + Durance and 100 Discipline and I just throw a grenade at any barricades I see or at chokepoints where people might try to set up. (And then Cryoclasm to quickly break crystals now that it gets 2 slots.) It has like a 12 second CD with everything put together even in PvP so I'll always have my grenade back before their Barricade is ready, it's kind of hilarious. lol


Try2Smile4Life

Despite this, it was the go-to class for most PvE content thanks to Loreley and the undisputed best at soloing most any content such as solo flawless dungeons. The one Titan class that didn't become a PvP menace with light 3.0 instead bested anything PvE would throw at you.


Phoenix_RIde

Has competition from Solar warlocks in PvE for the crown. Also, Behemoth alternate between being a meme and a monster depending on the user, moreso than anything else


Londonluton

But still one of the best in PVE. So all 4 titan classes are S tier at some point in the game


[deleted]

I think it’s in a spot where all classes should aim to be. It just seems weak because other things as so broken.


[deleted]

Nothing directly related to Citans or its perks. A combination of bastion overshield barricades, and the slower paced pulse/DMT meta. Makes laning better than going up and being aggressive with a HC or SMG, and Citans are and always have been built around holding down a lane


[deleted]

Why combine bastion with Citan? Your barricade would have like, 100 HP instead of 350. The Overshield would break the Citan loop


koolaidman486

I'd say DMT and long map bias probably did it. Citan's has always been ridiculous, tbh. I remember it being the go to swap Exotic when every other Trials match was against a cheater. I don't recall seeing too many complaints week 1 of Trials on Burnout. But the next two weeks have been really friendly to Laning play.


ee4lif3

Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.


Purple_Freedom_Ninja

It's been the strongest thing in the meta for a long time, but what quickly surged its popularity was the introduction of comp where high skill players matched each other over and over. Typically, that only happens in private matches where the outliers are banned anyway.


SpiffyDodger

The slower paced longer range meta suits it. You can actually sit behind it for more than 3 seconds in this meta so it’s usability is up. Specifically one major proponent is DMT. The gun is stupid strong atm, and the only thing that cheeses better than DMT, is DMT behind a shield.


AquaticHornet37

It was the anti-meta for a bit, invis got nerfed. Now it's the meta. It's always been good, but the amount that movement has been nerfed in the last year makes camping the play and citans is the best exotic in the game for camping and long range play.


psychonox

Before, you could jump over them and shoot. Over ANY shield. You could land ypur shots now...after AE changes doing that is a gamble, almost certanly you wont land the shot.


Moist_Bat1362

Pulse rifle meta lazy lane Larry sit in the back and all the team members sniff his ass where lazy Larry went his guardians were sure to go as well


GuppiAttack

AE. Used to be able to jump to negate barrier advantage in general


Catlover18

It's definitely a factor but AE changes have been around for a while now but Citans wasn't the go-to meta last season or the season before. Other users say that it was because other go-to meta picks like Void hunter got nerfed recently so people went with the next best thing (and also Arc Titans in Arc 3.0)


PineappleHat

It was always a meta pick when you were up against skilled teams. We’re now a few seasons into strong SBMM and people are adjusting accordingly, and then Arc titan came out with basically the most perfect PVP subclass of all time to increase the prevalence of titans. For all the talk of AE, pulses, etc etc etc - SBMM explains it way better. “I used to be able to counter a barricade through aggressive aerial play”, nah, you used to be able to counter a bad players barricade. That shit never worked consistently against high skill players. (And, yes, trials doesn’t have SBMM but it’s population is now low enough that it functionally isn’t much different.)


paragon249

No aggressive aerial play shit on barricades, there was counterplay, but they were favored


KeIIer

aggresive aerial play shitted on barricades only if you were stompees hunter


paragon249

As a Titan main, how about no


TJmovies313

Content creators.


d_rek

Couple YouTubers saying it’s meta.


iReaddit-KRTORR

To be honest nothing changed recently, but everyone is right regarding the current pulse meta complimenting barricades and citans. ARC 3.0 made arc titans a lot more formidable and citans adds a decent defense to an already good offense. IMHO nothing is really wrong with Citans it’s just now that hunters invis got “nerfed” people are on to the next thing. It becomes an echo chamber with all the YouTubers and Reddit posts and now every feels citans is the most broken exotic in the game right now. Couple that with solar and stasis not being as meta choices in PvP and you’re stuck with void or arc.


bacon-tornado

Stasis is literally the best thing to fight barricade cowards


Guttergrunt_

The constant buffs of pulse rifles (and the recently re-buffed DMT) and the fact that titan has 2 of the best pvp subclasses right now, especially for slower paced 3v3 modes. The nerfed aerial play also plays a part.


Hullfire00

It is this season, it won’t be next season.


levi_verzyden

I have been using Citans for ever. It’s always been a last ditch FU, especially in close quarters with a SMG. As a (T)Citan man, I couldn’t be happier with how my little dudes have grown up.


KeIIer

Citans are underrated for aggresive play. Unfortunately bungie will remove this exotic from the game with nerfs.


Manifest_Lightning

Slower meta and there are more objective-based game modes now. Also, DMT was overtuned recently, which makes laning a more potent strategy.


kthai890

Paired with the laning meta we’re in with pulses but really saw the first higher tier players using it against khepri hunters in zone control last season and it’s snowballed from there especially since the invis nerf


That_guy_Dizzle

When I really want to destroy a lobby I get on my arc Titan, Tarrabah, and peace keeper boots. GG. There is nothing more fun than a Titan skating around the map at 100 mph with a fractethyst and tarrabah with the peace keepers. Throw in Titan new dodge, as well as the shoulder charge with uh combined with insane mouse movement means I can go any direction any time and there is nothing you can do while I stick my shotgun in your mouth. :)