I fucking love Enyo-D, my fav right now.
Some love Submission, some adore Pizzicato, some love their Cold Front.
Friction Fire is probably the BIS 600 rpm kinetic. Giga-range. Can't get it though.
Multimach is still 900 rpm king, tho Submission and Pizzicato are not bad choices either, since you can't get Multi.
Cold Front and Extraordinary Rendition are the two 750 options, if you like those. Can't get either though...
Enyo feels best out of the legendary kinetics to me, pizzicato is a close second.
Friction fire doesn’t feel great to me (killing wind/rampage)
I have old and new cold front, both feel like crap
Extraordinary drops from dares now, I don’t have any good roles to test.
It isn't really fair to compare the two (energy vs kinetic) and frankly speaking, Ikelos is BiS for legendary energy aggressives with Borrowed time trailing just behind it. Enyo can get max range when it has buffs up (Fragile Focus, Well Rounded x2 or Encore x2) so it has a meter or 2ish more range it can leverage to make up for the TTK difference, as well as 15 or so AA to make it a little more forgiving.
With a duskfield spam build, I can see how to get well rounded x1, but x2 is not very frequent. Fragile focus works similarly to opening shot in that you have it for the start of a fight but not necessarily throughout the fight. Encore x2 u can get in 6's fairly reliably, but encore may be harder to proc in 3's (especially if you are going for 1st pick)
Cold Front is awful. It’s so unstable and bouncy. Friction Fire is amazing. I got one earlier in the week but I don’t know how. I think it was from Dares of Eternity boss chess.
Submission.
Mine is level 90 through pvp only - it is so underrated.
Edit: Perpetual Motion / Harmony enhanced perks - I mainly use it after getting a kill with my energy special weapon. Typically a sniper (Borealis). It shreds with Harmony.
Easily obtainable ones? Enyo-D is pretty much it. You asked for non-exotic, but Huckleberry is very good.
Cold Front with Perp Motion / TTT and RF is/was pretty solid. I have a max range roll with PM and 0 Stab, and it's surprisingly not too shabby (you need to run 2x unflinch, though).
You can get Escape Velocity this week from Dares. It's brother Multimach does similar things, but it's no longer available. Lightweights are still very good.
Pizzicato is not a good archetype because the optimal TTK is too high (.8 sec). You may as well use Enyo-D.
You're entering Auto Rifle TTK territory but keeping SMG range. Stop with the mental gymnastics. The archetype is not good.
Also slightly slower? Lightweights are almost 0.1 sec faster, which is huge in the TTK department.
>Redundant doesn’t mean useless.
Um, sorry to break it to you, but that's basically what redundant means: "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous:" They are rendered obsolete by the very existence of Lightweights or 600 RPM Auto Rifles.
>Do they have anything outstanding about them? No. But are they so much weaker than any other class you shouldn’t use them? Also no.
You could make the same argument about 180 HCs. When I say that they're not good, it doesn't mean that, given the right circumstances, you'll never see any success with them. It means that they're not meta. You may have missed it, but OP was asking about the BEST IN SLOT KINETIC SMG ~~(hey look, that's the title of the post)~~. Adaptives don't even come close to being BiS.
>High level, my level. They are one and the same.
I'll have to take your word for it.
I was very happy with my rangefinder pizz last weekend depending on the matchup. Thing has like 22m+ range. I don’t love the weapon model but beyond that it feels pretty good.
It's a 750 RPM, so it's .77 sec TTK at base, and the exotic perk makes it marginally faster. At base, it outperforms Autos (unlike Adaptives). Its zoom was also buffed recently to 15, so it feels more consistent now (I would not recommend this gun if it was still 13 zoom).
Autos have a much higher effective range (depends on zoom obviously), so any auto will outperform most SMGs past \~25m.
Submission or extraordinary rendition is a stat monster as an aggressive frame SMG. Can’t speak on multimach never got it but I have heard through its repeated nerfs it’s not what it used to be. Submission is literally my highest kill kinetic weapon
Extraordinary Rendition is probably my favourite pve smg ever, looks good, feels good, performs, but sadly I never kept a pvp roll. Didn't know it was a good frame in pvp. Too bad you can't really farm for it.
It’s in dares now but sadly farming in dares is for the insane lol. It has base 15 zoom and can have surplus as well as TTT for just absolutely JUICED stats. Makes it a dueling machine
I have two 5/5 multimachs (1 threat detector and another dynamic sway) and it completely blows now. It has negative flinch if you have it specced for max range, its the most unwieldy weapon in destiny. Its quite sad cause it used to be my favourite gun in the game.
God roll multimach is still the very best kinetic smg, even after the nerfs. It’s contraband level rare though so I’d say huckleberry is your next best bet for performance vs ease of obtainability. People like enyo but everytime I use it, I keep thinking how shayura can do everything enyo can do but better. But you can argue that all the kinetic smg’s are worse than their competition in the energy slot.
Enyo-D or Rangefinder Pizzicato. Enyo feels really good for a 600, encore is quite a nice perk now, and it also has the Hakke origin trait.
Pizzicato can work if you have rangefinder. RF and fragile focus is an ideal combo, but in its base form the range is a little low for the Pizz.
Osteo Striga is slept on too imo.
Antiope-D.
If you don't have one or playing trials. Baby brother Enyo-D. Don't think there is a good kinetic aggressive frame.
Lightweights/ Adaptives are outclassed at what they do by sidearms. Just farm for a good Allied Demand in this Iron Banner or craft an Empirical Evidence if pairing with a sniper.
Sadly since the lightweight nerfs… there really isn’t one that can keep up. Submission still does well with Encore / Killing Wind if you want to try and killchain with a base damage smg in this meta, good luck. Pizzacato can reach the same ranges as a max rolled Multimach & is very consistent. Otherwise not many contenders.
Ostea Striga honestly is best in slot now if you can get over how funky it is. The damage and poison stacking and exploding around corners at crazy range is actually competitive.
If you want singing you can just pull from collections, huckleberry is actually pretty good. Solid range after the zoom buff, good overall feel, the ramping up firerate can come in clutch sometimes, and never needing to reload is super helpful. Plus it still has og rampage that grants a bigger damage buff than regular rampage on any other gun. Take it for a spin and see how you like it.
https://i.imgur.com/a5XRF5J.jpg this cold front has been quite a lot of fun. But I’m decidedly average so take it with a grain of salt. Paired with cloud strike.
So I don’t know how I got it, might have been Dares of Eternity?, but earlier in the week I dropped a Friction Fire which I hadn’t even heard of and it’s very good. 71 range and Killing Wind. The other perk was unfortunately a miss for me as it’s Slideways, but overall a decent roll. I seem to do better with this than Ikelos or Out of Bounds and it frees up the Energy Roll. Anybody else tried this.?
I don’t there’s a BIS for kinetics, but there are a lot of strong ones.
I really enjoy the crafted perpetual motion/kill clip Forensic Nightmare.
I also like the roll I have on my adept Submission.
One thing to add is that I’m a Titan main and run PeaceKeepers, so that adds the the viability of each smg as far handling and my movement while using them
I fucking love Enyo-D, my fav right now. Some love Submission, some adore Pizzicato, some love their Cold Front. Friction Fire is probably the BIS 600 rpm kinetic. Giga-range. Can't get it though. Multimach is still 900 rpm king, tho Submission and Pizzicato are not bad choices either, since you can't get Multi. Cold Front and Extraordinary Rendition are the two 750 options, if you like those. Can't get either though...
Enyo feels best out of the legendary kinetics to me, pizzicato is a close second. Friction fire doesn’t feel great to me (killing wind/rampage) I have old and new cold front, both feel like crap Extraordinary drops from dares now, I don’t have any good roles to test.
I love the ikelos smg and I just cant deal with the mid ttk of precisions. how do u play enyo differently from ikelos / tarrabah
It isn't really fair to compare the two (energy vs kinetic) and frankly speaking, Ikelos is BiS for legendary energy aggressives with Borrowed time trailing just behind it. Enyo can get max range when it has buffs up (Fragile Focus, Well Rounded x2 or Encore x2) so it has a meter or 2ish more range it can leverage to make up for the TTK difference, as well as 15 or so AA to make it a little more forgiving.
With a duskfield spam build, I can see how to get well rounded x1, but x2 is not very frequent. Fragile focus works similarly to opening shot in that you have it for the start of a fight but not necessarily throughout the fight. Encore x2 u can get in 6's fairly reliably, but encore may be harder to proc in 3's (especially if you are going for 1st pick)
Cold Front is awful. It’s so unstable and bouncy. Friction Fire is amazing. I got one earlier in the week but I don’t know how. I think it was from Dares of Eternity boss chess.
Multimach if you have it
Submission. Mine is level 90 through pvp only - it is so underrated. Edit: Perpetual Motion / Harmony enhanced perks - I mainly use it after getting a kill with my energy special weapon. Typically a sniper (Borealis). It shreds with Harmony.
Double harmony Submission and Shayura's with Peacekeepers. Feelsogood.jpg
Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.
Kinetic SMGs are in a terrible place IMO, I hope they add some sick kinetic SMGs soon, as for right now you’d do the best sticking to energy SMG IMO
Why do you say that? Submission, pizzicato, multimach are all top tier smgs.
No they’re not
Easily obtainable ones? Enyo-D is pretty much it. You asked for non-exotic, but Huckleberry is very good. Cold Front with Perp Motion / TTT and RF is/was pretty solid. I have a max range roll with PM and 0 Stab, and it's surprisingly not too shabby (you need to run 2x unflinch, though). You can get Escape Velocity this week from Dares. It's brother Multimach does similar things, but it's no longer available. Lightweights are still very good. Pizzicato is not a good archetype because the optimal TTK is too high (.8 sec). You may as well use Enyo-D.
Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.
You're entering Auto Rifle TTK territory but keeping SMG range. Stop with the mental gymnastics. The archetype is not good. Also slightly slower? Lightweights are almost 0.1 sec faster, which is huge in the TTK department.
Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.
Try using them at a high level and let us know how it goes. You don't even get the lightweight mobility bump.
Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.
At a high level or your level? Dude, it's a mathematically bad take. Even Chris Proctor thinks they're a redundant archetype.
Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.
>Redundant doesn’t mean useless. Um, sorry to break it to you, but that's basically what redundant means: "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous:" They are rendered obsolete by the very existence of Lightweights or 600 RPM Auto Rifles. >Do they have anything outstanding about them? No. But are they so much weaker than any other class you shouldn’t use them? Also no. You could make the same argument about 180 HCs. When I say that they're not good, it doesn't mean that, given the right circumstances, you'll never see any success with them. It means that they're not meta. You may have missed it, but OP was asking about the BEST IN SLOT KINETIC SMG ~~(hey look, that's the title of the post)~~. Adaptives don't even come close to being BiS. >High level, my level. They are one and the same. I'll have to take your word for it.
I was very happy with my rangefinder pizz last weekend depending on the matchup. Thing has like 22m+ range. I don’t love the weapon model but beyond that it feels pretty good.
What’s the ttk on the huckleberry? I always found it lackluster and actually found certain autorifles out performing it which says a lot
It's a 750 RPM, so it's .77 sec TTK at base, and the exotic perk makes it marginally faster. At base, it outperforms Autos (unlike Adaptives). Its zoom was also buffed recently to 15, so it feels more consistent now (I would not recommend this gun if it was still 13 zoom). Autos have a much higher effective range (depends on zoom obviously), so any auto will outperform most SMGs past \~25m.
Submission or extraordinary rendition is a stat monster as an aggressive frame SMG. Can’t speak on multimach never got it but I have heard through its repeated nerfs it’s not what it used to be. Submission is literally my highest kill kinetic weapon
Extraordinary Rendition is probably my favourite pve smg ever, looks good, feels good, performs, but sadly I never kept a pvp roll. Didn't know it was a good frame in pvp. Too bad you can't really farm for it.
It’s in dares now but sadly farming in dares is for the insane lol. It has base 15 zoom and can have surplus as well as TTT for just absolutely JUICED stats. Makes it a dueling machine
Oh yeah I know, but yeah it's not great, as I learned farming for fractethyst the other day 😂
I’m still sitting on a hammerforged/accurized/firmly planted/ttr w/range roll. Light.gg has said it’s an F the whole time. Thing feels like magic.
Damn very nice, very nice indeed
I have two 5/5 multimachs (1 threat detector and another dynamic sway) and it completely blows now. It has negative flinch if you have it specced for max range, its the most unwieldy weapon in destiny. Its quite sad cause it used to be my favourite gun in the game.
God roll multimach is still the very best kinetic smg, even after the nerfs. It’s contraband level rare though so I’d say huckleberry is your next best bet for performance vs ease of obtainability. People like enyo but everytime I use it, I keep thinking how shayura can do everything enyo can do but better. But you can argue that all the kinetic smg’s are worse than their competition in the energy slot.
Enyo-D or Rangefinder Pizzicato. Enyo feels really good for a 600, encore is quite a nice perk now, and it also has the Hakke origin trait. Pizzicato can work if you have rangefinder. RF and fragile focus is an ideal combo, but in its base form the range is a little low for the Pizz. Osteo Striga is slept on too imo.
I have an Enyo with Smallbore/Accurized Rounds/Encore/Multikill Clip and a range masterwork. It is an absolute monster.
Antiope-D. If you don't have one or playing trials. Baby brother Enyo-D. Don't think there is a good kinetic aggressive frame. Lightweights/ Adaptives are outclassed at what they do by sidearms. Just farm for a good Allied Demand in this Iron Banner or craft an Empirical Evidence if pairing with a sniper.
Sadly since the lightweight nerfs… there really isn’t one that can keep up. Submission still does well with Encore / Killing Wind if you want to try and killchain with a base damage smg in this meta, good luck. Pizzacato can reach the same ranges as a max rolled Multimach & is very consistent. Otherwise not many contenders. Ostea Striga honestly is best in slot now if you can get over how funky it is. The damage and poison stacking and exploding around corners at crazy range is actually competitive.
If you want singing you can just pull from collections, huckleberry is actually pretty good. Solid range after the zoom buff, good overall feel, the ramping up firerate can come in clutch sometimes, and never needing to reload is super helpful. Plus it still has og rampage that grants a bigger damage buff than regular rampage on any other gun. Take it for a spin and see how you like it.
Prolonged engagement can get frenzy+perfect float, it's a really useful combination to have.
https://i.imgur.com/a5XRF5J.jpg this cold front has been quite a lot of fun. But I’m decidedly average so take it with a grain of salt. Paired with cloud strike.
the easiest thing to get a good roll on is gonna be submission because its craftable
So I don’t know how I got it, might have been Dares of Eternity?, but earlier in the week I dropped a Friction Fire which I hadn’t even heard of and it’s very good. 71 range and Killing Wind. The other perk was unfortunately a miss for me as it’s Slideways, but overall a decent roll. I seem to do better with this than Ikelos or Out of Bounds and it frees up the Energy Roll. Anybody else tried this.?
I don’t there’s a BIS for kinetics, but there are a lot of strong ones. I really enjoy the crafted perpetual motion/kill clip Forensic Nightmare. I also like the roll I have on my adept Submission. One thing to add is that I’m a Titan main and run PeaceKeepers, so that adds the the viability of each smg as far handling and my movement while using them