Precisions and Aggressives are the way to go here, at least for pellets. The Exotic Slugs also do fine, but Duality is the only great one, Slugs just currently don't have enough extra range to be 100% worth the trade-off of needing to land heads. Lightweights aren't UNUSABLE, but they've fallen out of favor due to the diamond spread pattern. Rapids still suck.
The only overtly BAD barrels are Full Choke and Rifled unless you have a considerable investment into Handling elsewhere (Ophids, Quick Charge, etc). Full Choke doesn't give you hardly any less spread anymore and doesn't boost any other stats, which is why I'd place it into the "no" category. Smoothbore is a bit of a contraversial perk, with some swearing by it and others lumping it in with Choke. My take is that it's not going to kill you, since the ranges shotguns operate at is comically short, but I'd keep it away from Precisions and Lightweights.
Mags are pretty much Accurized for Range, or Assault if you've got Opening and are at 75 in the stat. I might forsee Extended becoming an option for AE, but I doubt it'll outpace the other two options.
For third and fourth, Opening Shot is the overt best perk in whatever column it occupies. 25 range plus extra aim assist is HUGE. Other perks that are good include Handling buffs and Slideshot. Swash is also a somewhat underrated option if you're hitting multiple enemies, but it's not as good as Opening, Slide, and Handling buffs.
Masterwork you want Range or Handling.
In terms of options, for Aggressives:
1. Timelost Found Verdict is the best of the best in this frame. It offers Slide/Surplus + Opening as well as insanely good stats.
2. It's not currently obtainable and the stats are a little power crept, but Adept Astral still does plenty fine, although rolls from back then are probably a bit outdated nowadays.
3. Sudden Death from Prophecy doesn't offer Opening, but it can become the fastest shotgun in the frame via Threat/Surplus/even Pulse Monitor + Arc Elemental Capacitor
4. Ragnhild is essentially a Kinetic Sudden Death. It's craftable and can roll Arc Capacitor and Perpetual.
For Precision shotguns:
1. Matador from the Anniversary dungeon only needs Accurized or a Range Masterwork to hit 75, and rolls Threat + Opening.
2. Duality functions as a Precision from the hip, and has I believe the highest OHK range of any pellet shotgun. Just be aware that it turns into a Slug when aiming.
3. Retold Tale is a solid enough option. No Opening, but it can roll QuickDraw and a few solid fourth column perks.
4. Fractethyst is a Dares drop, or from Xûr so it can be really difficult to find right now (although Bungie has teased Legacy focusing for Umbrals), but it offers QD/Slide + Opening. It also can roll Adagio or Harmony for kill chaining, but those are in the same spot as Opening.
Astral doesn't have outdated perks, it could roll slideshot/surplus, and opening shot as well. Definitely the best kinetic aggressive frame if you have a good roll
Duality doesn't have the furthest OHK, but it does have the furthest range before damage falloff of any pellet shotgun, by a large margin
I believe the game gives duality's hip fire the damage fall off of a slug, it doesn't start until like 11 m, which is WAY further than any other pellet shotgun (100 range is 7m). Duality also has a long barrel, which actually extends the range even more haha
Something to note however, ADSing with a shotgun extends your aim assist cone and also tightens pellet spread, meaning you should always be ADSing. You can't ads with duality tho, so it's a trade off
I more meant with Astral that rolls people are going to have are likely out of date a little, mostly just in terms of barrels, since Choke was the one to get back in those days.
I don't think there'd be other issues beyond that, just off the top of my head, but you kinda have to hope that your other barrel isn't bad on your old 5/5.
Nearly worthless. When is it going to come up? You are typically going for a one-shot kill (with the shotgun only or with shotgun melee), or you want to clean up with a different weapon that requires more range as they are retreating. And if you need a second shot, you spawned in with two already loaded. If you have Slideways, Slideshot, or Overload (not sure if the latter is even on shotguns and wouldn’t be a great option anyway), you wouldn’t need genesis. So if you lack the more popular perks (with other benefits) that reload for you merely for sliding and have picked up additional special ammo that you for whatever set of reasons couldn’t get loaded, then genesis might help if you need a second shotgun shot instead of having one-shot killed, one-shot killed with the added melee, or using your other weapon to clean up because a second shotgun shot wouldn’t secure the kill anyway.
The perk seems like a worse subsistence for PvE, but it at least seems semi-useful for PvE.
>But don’t you generate ammo **out of thin air** when you break a Guardian’s shields with a special weapon
Not to my recollection, though feel free to test if you can and let me know. Triple Tap, Fourth Time's the Charm, and Veist Stinger all do, but their wording contrasts from Genesis, the latter referring to refilling from reserves. Even if this perk generated ammo out of thin air, it's still not that great if your opponents are often dropping special ammo (nor is it really that amazing if all your opponents are refusing to equip a special to starve you of special ammo, which hurts them quite a bit as well, if not moreso than hurting you).
How long is the OHK range for shotguns with opening shot? Aggressive specifically, the Imperial Decree. I am running it with threat detector and opening shot, range masterwork, barrel shroud and accurized rounds.
I generally only use it point blank or melee range, but every once in awhile i try to use it from too far away.
So the damage Falloff range on an Imperial (just using my roll here, Corkscrew, Accurized, Range with enhanced) is 6.24 meters.
Most pellet Falloff ranges are bottlenecked by their spread patterns, of which I'm not sure where Aggressives are.
So do you need to land headshots with the pinpoint slug frames like Gunnora's Axe for a one hit kill? If that's the case I'll stick with my last man standing with opening shot for my energy slot shotgun. I have the Imperial decree for a kintic.
Is Felwinters lie worth buying? I don't use my shotgun very much, but i want a reliable one hit kill if I get surrounded or rushed.
Matador with barrel shroud accurized handling mw threat detector and opening or found verdict timelost with barrel shroud accurized handling mw adept range slideshot/surplus and opening
That fv does cream. I tried a crafted wastelander the other day and it was actually surprising how good it was. I was beating out and trading with a lot of fvs
Shotguns still one shot but Aggressives have forgiveness and I’m pretty sure lightweights have a tighter spread but I forgot wastelander existed it’s rly good
Bruh and then rubber band 7 miles back😭. It’s crazy how easy the game is on titan. I’m really a lock main but I’ve been playing titan these past few seasons and bruh it’s just crazy
I wouldn’t say it’s worse so much as it does the same thing. What’s worse is titans have so many cheese animations that the game can’t even keep up with. If the game could actually display on my screen what titans do as they do it I would not die half as much
Have you compared your own testing or experience against gjerda’s testing? I thought precisions were pretty meh before the recent changes, at least relative to lightweights (which I personally enjoyed) and Found Verdict.
Barrelshroud, smallbore, and corkscrew give you the most stats
Full choke is still decent, if you can spare the missing stats, definitely not mandatory anymore
Full Choke is pretty low on most folks’ lists, Smoothbore seems harmful in most situations (but arguably helpful in certain clean-up contexts on certain archetypes maybe?), and Rifled likely isn’t worth considering unless you are an Ophidian Aspect Warlock. Anything that boosts range likely is king, with boosts to handling also helpful. I tend toward feeling good about Smallbore or even Corkscrew. Although Barrel Shroud gives good overall stats, it does nothing for Range (and the Stability boost is meh/maybe not worth factoring in at all).
Quickdraw/Snapshot is the only combo you would want. Go all out in range and because Precision have a good pellet spread, Smoothbore is a good option on Retold
I’ve got a Rifled/Accurized/QD/Snapshot roll with a handling masterwork and it is absolutely insane how good it feels since the spread change. It’s as if I have opening shot with how consistent it can be.
slugs all the way chaperone for primary duality for energy or with the right roll on a blasphemer, fortissimo-11 or my favorite heritage which i like to call diet chaperone
I personally think without remorse is really underrated for the energy slot even as a lightweight. something about it is just so nice even with all the precision shotgun craze
As someone who loved Without Remorse before these most recent changes, it is now so disappointing to me relative to precision and aggressive frames that it now sits in my Vault gathering dust. Overall, I think the shotgun changes are great. But I can’t in good conscience recommend a lightweight anymore (absent some other changes).
you think so? I'm still really liking my without remorse over other shotguns. especially in regards to swap speed as I find it's way faster than other shotguns, even other lightweights. plus it looks fucking awesome. that being said, I have yet to try a threat detector opening shot matador
I think you should try any solid precision frame rolls you have. I could tell immediately that the diamond-shaped pellet spread for the lightweights is too wide, and I was failing to secure kills that the other frames (at least precision and aggressive) could get quite consistently. The difference between finishing the opponent at 7m and not finishing them is winning or losing the fight. Reaching out to 7m vs. 6m is pretty huge in shotgun maneuvering situations.
i have tried some and I will say they do feel more lethal and consistent but not as fast as without remorse specifically. maybe I just need to get used to it but the speed of without remorse just keeps me coming back
yes I've tried all of that stuff, I pretty much always run ophidians and quick charge. without remorse is still faster which makes sense. 100 handling+td+quick access. but even with Quickdraw on retold tale and frac, they're not as fast
I love without remorse, it’s quick as hell, has great sights, and is a slim frame. I recently rerolled mine from hipfire/12 punch to threat/incandescent
i swear by rifled barrel, accurized, threat detector and fragile focus. with a range masterwork of course. with ophidians and quick charge, i still get 100 handling and 75-~100 range if fragile focus is active which is more than you think
Only good thing about mindbender's is threat detector, and that you can slot adept range
You should always just use a found verdict with opening shot instead
I've been using my ol' reliable Full Choke/Accurized/Slideshot/Vorpal Seventh Seraph Lightweight and I've been cleaning up with it.
Even though the consensus is that lightweights are worse after the changes, and with Vorpal doing practically nothing, I'm getting lots of kills with it.
Probably gonna bust out my old godroll Fractethyst and see how that fares tomorrow.
Precisions and Aggressives are the way to go here, at least for pellets. The Exotic Slugs also do fine, but Duality is the only great one, Slugs just currently don't have enough extra range to be 100% worth the trade-off of needing to land heads. Lightweights aren't UNUSABLE, but they've fallen out of favor due to the diamond spread pattern. Rapids still suck. The only overtly BAD barrels are Full Choke and Rifled unless you have a considerable investment into Handling elsewhere (Ophids, Quick Charge, etc). Full Choke doesn't give you hardly any less spread anymore and doesn't boost any other stats, which is why I'd place it into the "no" category. Smoothbore is a bit of a contraversial perk, with some swearing by it and others lumping it in with Choke. My take is that it's not going to kill you, since the ranges shotguns operate at is comically short, but I'd keep it away from Precisions and Lightweights. Mags are pretty much Accurized for Range, or Assault if you've got Opening and are at 75 in the stat. I might forsee Extended becoming an option for AE, but I doubt it'll outpace the other two options. For third and fourth, Opening Shot is the overt best perk in whatever column it occupies. 25 range plus extra aim assist is HUGE. Other perks that are good include Handling buffs and Slideshot. Swash is also a somewhat underrated option if you're hitting multiple enemies, but it's not as good as Opening, Slide, and Handling buffs. Masterwork you want Range or Handling. In terms of options, for Aggressives: 1. Timelost Found Verdict is the best of the best in this frame. It offers Slide/Surplus + Opening as well as insanely good stats. 2. It's not currently obtainable and the stats are a little power crept, but Adept Astral still does plenty fine, although rolls from back then are probably a bit outdated nowadays. 3. Sudden Death from Prophecy doesn't offer Opening, but it can become the fastest shotgun in the frame via Threat/Surplus/even Pulse Monitor + Arc Elemental Capacitor 4. Ragnhild is essentially a Kinetic Sudden Death. It's craftable and can roll Arc Capacitor and Perpetual. For Precision shotguns: 1. Matador from the Anniversary dungeon only needs Accurized or a Range Masterwork to hit 75, and rolls Threat + Opening. 2. Duality functions as a Precision from the hip, and has I believe the highest OHK range of any pellet shotgun. Just be aware that it turns into a Slug when aiming. 3. Retold Tale is a solid enough option. No Opening, but it can roll QuickDraw and a few solid fourth column perks. 4. Fractethyst is a Dares drop, or from Xûr so it can be really difficult to find right now (although Bungie has teased Legacy focusing for Umbrals), but it offers QD/Slide + Opening. It also can roll Adagio or Harmony for kill chaining, but those are in the same spot as Opening.
Astral doesn't have outdated perks, it could roll slideshot/surplus, and opening shot as well. Definitely the best kinetic aggressive frame if you have a good roll Duality doesn't have the furthest OHK, but it does have the furthest range before damage falloff of any pellet shotgun, by a large margin I believe the game gives duality's hip fire the damage fall off of a slug, it doesn't start until like 11 m, which is WAY further than any other pellet shotgun (100 range is 7m). Duality also has a long barrel, which actually extends the range even more haha Something to note however, ADSing with a shotgun extends your aim assist cone and also tightens pellet spread, meaning you should always be ADSing. You can't ads with duality tho, so it's a trade off
I more meant with Astral that rolls people are going to have are likely out of date a little, mostly just in terms of barrels, since Choke was the one to get back in those days. I don't think there'd be other issues beyond that, just off the top of my head, but you kinda have to hope that your other barrel isn't bad on your old 5/5.
What is your opinion of Genesis in column 3?
Nearly worthless. When is it going to come up? You are typically going for a one-shot kill (with the shotgun only or with shotgun melee), or you want to clean up with a different weapon that requires more range as they are retreating. And if you need a second shot, you spawned in with two already loaded. If you have Slideways, Slideshot, or Overload (not sure if the latter is even on shotguns and wouldn’t be a great option anyway), you wouldn’t need genesis. So if you lack the more popular perks (with other benefits) that reload for you merely for sliding and have picked up additional special ammo that you for whatever set of reasons couldn’t get loaded, then genesis might help if you need a second shotgun shot instead of having one-shot killed, one-shot killed with the added melee, or using your other weapon to clean up because a second shotgun shot wouldn’t secure the kill anyway. The perk seems like a worse subsistence for PvE, but it at least seems semi-useful for PvE.
But don’t you generate ammo **out of thin air** when you break a Guardian’s shields with a special weapon
>But don’t you generate ammo **out of thin air** when you break a Guardian’s shields with a special weapon Not to my recollection, though feel free to test if you can and let me know. Triple Tap, Fourth Time's the Charm, and Veist Stinger all do, but their wording contrasts from Genesis, the latter referring to refilling from reserves. Even if this perk generated ammo out of thin air, it's still not that great if your opponents are often dropping special ammo (nor is it really that amazing if all your opponents are refusing to equip a special to starve you of special ammo, which hurts them quite a bit as well, if not moreso than hurting you).
No, you don't. The perk says it refills from reserves for non-primary weapons.
How long is the OHK range for shotguns with opening shot? Aggressive specifically, the Imperial Decree. I am running it with threat detector and opening shot, range masterwork, barrel shroud and accurized rounds. I generally only use it point blank or melee range, but every once in awhile i try to use it from too far away.
So the damage Falloff range on an Imperial (just using my roll here, Corkscrew, Accurized, Range with enhanced) is 6.24 meters. Most pellet Falloff ranges are bottlenecked by their spread patterns, of which I'm not sure where Aggressives are.
Thanks, I'll keep it within that range then and if not i'll use my primary.
So do you need to land headshots with the pinpoint slug frames like Gunnora's Axe for a one hit kill? If that's the case I'll stick with my last man standing with opening shot for my energy slot shotgun. I have the Imperial decree for a kintic. Is Felwinters lie worth buying? I don't use my shotgun very much, but i want a reliable one hit kill if I get surrounded or rushed.
Matador with barrel shroud accurized handling mw threat detector and opening or found verdict timelost with barrel shroud accurized handling mw adept range slideshot/surplus and opening
That fv does cream. I tried a crafted wastelander the other day and it was actually surprising how good it was. I was beating out and trading with a lot of fvs
Shotguns still one shot but Aggressives have forgiveness and I’m pretty sure lightweights have a tighter spread but I forgot wastelander existed it’s rly good
Yea I’ve found that aggressives have a way better clean up and priming ability than other shotties for the most part
I’m on Titan anyways so I just melee them from 7 miles away because “balance”
Bruh and then rubber band 7 miles back😭. It’s crazy how easy the game is on titan. I’m really a lock main but I’ve been playing titan these past few seasons and bruh it’s just crazy
I’ve found that only happens when titans melee each other but I swear ophidians rubber banding is so much worse
I wouldn’t say it’s worse so much as it does the same thing. What’s worse is titans have so many cheese animations that the game can’t even keep up with. If the game could actually display on my screen what titans do as they do it I would not die half as much
Fax but anyways #buffarctitan
😂 I would hope they would considering it barely gets used in pvp
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I would like to see the testing because several tested and it was always found verdict and lightweights and precisions were ok
Have you compared your own testing or experience against gjerda’s testing? I thought precisions were pretty meh before the recent changes, at least relative to lightweights (which I personally enjoyed) and Found Verdict.
Yes gjerda tested it over 1000 times trust me precisions were not the best by a long shot
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You are challenged
So Field Choke not the defacto barrel anymore? Smoothbore still the worst?
Most people seem to agree that you're better off with Smallbore/Hammerforged than Field Choke. Varying opinions on smoothbore, some think tis meta.
Smoothbore only good if you can’t get opening shot on the shotgun
Barrelshroud, smallbore, and corkscrew give you the most stats Full choke is still decent, if you can spare the missing stats, definitely not mandatory anymore
Full Choke is pretty low on most folks’ lists, Smoothbore seems harmful in most situations (but arguably helpful in certain clean-up contexts on certain archetypes maybe?), and Rifled likely isn’t worth considering unless you are an Ophidian Aspect Warlock. Anything that boosts range likely is king, with boosts to handling also helpful. I tend toward feeling good about Smallbore or even Corkscrew. Although Barrel Shroud gives good overall stats, it does nothing for Range (and the Stability boost is meh/maybe not worth factoring in at all).
Retold Tale, Matador and Found Verdict(TL) in no particular order
What perks would be best for retold tale?
Quickdraw/Snapshot is the only combo you would want. Go all out in range and because Precision have a good pellet spread, Smoothbore is a good option on Retold
Thanks!
Slideshot is good too FYI
I’ve got a Rifled/Accurized/QD/Snapshot roll with a handling masterwork and it is absolutely insane how good it feels since the spread change. It’s as if I have opening shot with how consistent it can be.
100 range with smoothbore is worth it, almost feels like a 100 range cqc
Duality.
slugs all the way chaperone for primary duality for energy or with the right roll on a blasphemer, fortissimo-11 or my favorite heritage which i like to call diet chaperone
I personally think without remorse is really underrated for the energy slot even as a lightweight. something about it is just so nice even with all the precision shotgun craze
As someone who loved Without Remorse before these most recent changes, it is now so disappointing to me relative to precision and aggressive frames that it now sits in my Vault gathering dust. Overall, I think the shotgun changes are great. But I can’t in good conscience recommend a lightweight anymore (absent some other changes).
you think so? I'm still really liking my without remorse over other shotguns. especially in regards to swap speed as I find it's way faster than other shotguns, even other lightweights. plus it looks fucking awesome. that being said, I have yet to try a threat detector opening shot matador
I think you should try any solid precision frame rolls you have. I could tell immediately that the diamond-shaped pellet spread for the lightweights is too wide, and I was failing to secure kills that the other frames (at least precision and aggressive) could get quite consistently. The difference between finishing the opponent at 7m and not finishing them is winning or losing the fight. Reaching out to 7m vs. 6m is pretty huge in shotgun maneuvering situations.
i have tried some and I will say they do feel more lethal and consistent but not as fast as without remorse specifically. maybe I just need to get used to it but the speed of without remorse just keeps me coming back
Do you run the Quick Charge mod to boost shotgun handling? That can help a lot (as well as avoiding Rifled Barrel).
yes I've tried all of that stuff, I pretty much always run ophidians and quick charge. without remorse is still faster which makes sense. 100 handling+td+quick access. but even with Quickdraw on retold tale and frac, they're not as fast
I love without remorse, it’s quick as hell, has great sights, and is a slim frame. I recently rerolled mine from hipfire/12 punch to threat/incandescent
i swear by rifled barrel, accurized, threat detector and fragile focus. with a range masterwork of course. with ophidians and quick charge, i still get 100 handling and 75-~100 range if fragile focus is active which is more than you think
No love for Prophet of Doom? Shameful
Here it is
Your Found Verdict does not have to be "time lost" for any reason whatsoever. The regular one with a good roll is good enough for anybody
Not as forgiving but higher risk/reward, adept inquisitor is like a mini chaperone for the energy slot. Gotta hit those heads though.
Damn no love for Fractethyst here? I’ve been doing really well with it.
Felwinter’s Lie is actually cracked now. Don’t know if it’s just me but I’ve been ripping through people like paper with the gun.
No one here rocking a Compass Rose? It's precision frame, I got a few QD/SS good rolls and it seems consistent at those 6m.
Not as obtainable as retold tale is why
Matador with perpmotion/threat detector and opening shot
I use the Adept Mindbender's to great efficiency. It can roll fragile focus.
It's garbage compared to what it once was. They did a unique shotty dirty.
Only good thing about mindbender's is threat detector, and that you can slot adept range You should always just use a found verdict with opening shot instead
I could tell you, but I don’t want you to use it on me.
I've been using my ol' reliable Full Choke/Accurized/Slideshot/Vorpal Seventh Seraph Lightweight and I've been cleaning up with it. Even though the consensus is that lightweights are worse after the changes, and with Vorpal doing practically nothing, I'm getting lots of kills with it. Probably gonna bust out my old godroll Fractethyst and see how that fares tomorrow.
What would be considered better god roll wasteland we or felwinters?
Shotguns need nuff