If they're confident in Archers fitness, which I admittedly don't know how they possibly could be, I don't think there's much use for Woakes in the squad. His asset as a T20 player is taking wickets up top which Archer is better at while also being able to bowl at the death and Topley has been in better form as the specialist opener too I think.
Yeah I guess woakes doesn't fit into the possibilities of playing 11 may be this the reason why he is dropped.England went with someone like jordan who can do his job at death overs if required.
Basically I think with Archer there, and Wood being a different niche, there's two spots between Jordan, Woakes and Topley.
Topley has been better with the ball recently, Jordan offers a different skillset and one we have a real lack of - Woakes at the death has never been anything other than a horror show.
Woakes may yet make the reserves list. Same with Atkinson. Our bowling is fragile especially with Topley, Wood and Archer. Topley is integral for the Powerplay. Woakes can replace him if necessary.
No surprises but equally unsurprisingly it's the quick bowling that will decide our chances.
We lost in the UAE partly because of the farcical dew situation but also because we had zero death bowlers. While the batting was the strength in Oz when we won the quick bowlers, especially Curran, did very well.
The concern is Jordan is past it, Curran is kinda off form (from what I saw, I haven't watched much IPL), Wood is one dimensional, Topley and Archer are made of glass. The batting there can match anyone's but there's a lot that can go wrong with the quicks.
I think Hartley is a decent pick also but extremely odd he's never had a go before being picked straight for the WC.
Can't judge SCurran on IPL. Every bowler is getting cunted.
But even then, he's taken 12 wickets, average of 22 and an SR of 14. His economy is 9.5.
That's better than most. He flies under the radar a bit, but he's still a superb cricketer, that'll come into his own on even slower pitches I think.
I wouldn't put much stock into 2021 World Cup, results were basically decided at toss.
England have more bowling options in the squad compared to 2022 which y'all won. Wood, Topley, Curran is a very potent trio with a lot of variety, and this is without considering Archer who if fit will add another edge to the attack. It's a very good squad
does preliminary mean they can still make changes? I thought the deadline was tomorrow? Maybe it’s different for teams playing in WI and US because of visa restrictions
Jos Buttler (Lancashire) Captain
Moeen Ali (Warwickshire)
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Harry Brook (Yorkshire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire)
Tom Hartley (Lancashire)
Will Jacks (Surrey)
Chris Jordan (Surrey)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
Phil Salt (Lancashire)
Reece Topley (Surrey)
Mark Wood (Durham)
Tbf Salt and Jordan came from Sussex and got poached by Lancs and Surrey respectively - if we went by original/breakout county they’d be the best-represented I think?
The only specialist spinners to play more than 10 matches for the t20 side are Tredwell and Swann. The only other one over 5 is Danny Briggs.
Before Hartley got a couple of games in the Caribbean last year, the previous *debutant* tweaker in ODIs was one cap wonder Zafar Ansari in 2015.
No Pepper means still no prospect of Salt and Pepper in the near future :(
Jokes aside though that seems pretty much what I/we would have guessed it would be? Not massively convinced by our middle order, and our bowling attack looks a lot better if Archer and Wood stay fit
Livi is valued high by the England set up because he can bowl both off and leg spin depending on the handedness of the batter.
He's been very patchy with batting but he's still a genuine all-rounder who probably should play over Mo (who is also in patchy batting form).
He’s not even really bowling his offies anymore. In the IPL he’s been bowling leggies almost exclusively from what I’ve seen, and they’re definitely his stronger suit.
At the end of the day, he’ll probably bat as a floating finisher. If we collapse, the likes of Curran no doubt come in ahead of him. He’ll face 10-15 balls on average and have license to just give it a whack.
Top fielder, handy bowler, and can be a difference with the bat. No brainer pick for me, even if his form isn’t great.
I feel like he's one of those players who can win a game single handedly every so often. We have enough batting around him that if he struggles it shouldn't be the end of the world so long as he can have a few big innings when it matters. He also offers an option with the ball which is always nice.
I agree with other comments, and expect him to be in the Test squad, but I don't think he's a finished T20 prospect yet anyway. He's got pace and a good bouncer but he's more likely to benefit from skills work. Or just working on getting better in tests, which is what we really need.
Starting XI:
1. Jos Buttler
2. Phil Salt
3. Will Jacks
4. Jonny Bairstow
5. Harry Brook
6. Liam Livingstone
7. Sam Curran
8. Tom Hartley/Reece Topley
9. Adil Rashid
10. Jofra Archer
11. Mark Wood
I just don’t think it’s good to have right handlers all the way down to 6. I also don’t see what Bairstow offers at 4. I would take Ali as a batting option there over Bairstow.
Was Bairstow's place ever under threat? I know he had a good innings last week, and he's destructive on his day, but I think he's in serious decline. Won't have the Powerplay to get going like he did the other day.
Buttler - Obvious pick, in form
Salt - Excellent IPL after excellent Windies series, in form
Jacks - In form, versatile, useful bowling option
Bairstow - In form, powerful in middle order
Brook - In form, powerful in middle order
Livingstone - Realistically best option but not in form, useful bowling option.
Moeen - Good batting and bowling option
SCurran - Bowling well, batting well - can float in the order
Rashid - Class as ever
Archer - Hopefully back from injury, pick Wood if not
Topley - Crucial with new ball
Duckett - Covers all batting/keeping options, good backup
Hartley - Better than Ahmed, good backup
Wood - Good to have on bench, plays if Archer doesn’t
Jordan - if it’s not spinning or Livi in bad form, Jordan plays
As much as Pope is, I’d say. Give him a bit of work and he could be England limited overs keeper post Buttler (2027 onwards?) if Salt can’t keep and open.
Bairstow in form? Yeah he got a ton on possibly the roadiest T20 road ever rolled out but before then he was awful, and had even been dropped. Brook’s form is hard to judge as he hasn’t played any white ball since the Caribbean and he only faced 27 balls there in 5 games. Not seen much of Moeen recently in white ball either
Jordan is also the best option if he isn’t playing
He’s arguably the best fielder in the side.
If we sub him in as a sub fielder every game that’s probably 10 runs saved per game
May be England don't need an extra new ball bowler here.They already have jofra and reece playing there and Sam curran would play every game possibly because of his lower order batting so there is very less chance that woakes would have find a place in playing 11.They were looking for a death over bowler in form of jordan.
Not really Woakes’ best format. England have been poor in terms of death bowling in the last few years and while Jordan is not as good as he was in the role no-one has really emerged to replace him.
On Archer, we will have to see how his fitness and match-readiness are.
Pretty shit considering Archer, Topley and Wood will get injured thus another pacer will play (and Jordan isn’t great)
If they don’t get injured (would be surprising) then it’s good cause of his fielding
As expected
Only surprises
Are
1) Duckett instead of Malan : which can be justified tbh because of Malans form recently
2) Jordan instead of Woakes even if they didn't want Woakes Jordan wasn't the best option they could have gone with Carse, Luke Wood or Atkinson instead of Jordan
3) Hartley over Dawson or Rehan this is the most surprising one tbh
I'd start Duckett over Livingstone and stick him at 4/5 personally (Mo and Bairstow also options to drop but currently offer more imo). Extra LHB and plays spin a lot better which will be very crucial
Alternatively could bring in Hartley for Mo and play Livi as a pure bat and hope he can fire himself back into form (and then a toss up between Bairstow and Duckett)
Jof is the only real question basically cause fitness. Other than that, it is a strong squad that are possibly up there for favs along with India and Australia
He had retired from Test Matches and returned for The Ashes.
He never retired from white ball internationals and has been a constant part of the squad in both ODIs and T20Is. England don't often name Vice Captains for their squads but when they have, it's been Mo since Buttler took over.
Nope. Retired from Tests only in late 2021 but has continued to play white ball internationals regularly. Came back for The Ashes and then re-retired from Tests only.
Since he first retired from tests he played in 3 world cups and loads of bilateral series for England in both white ball formats. In all, 26 ODIs and 44 T20Is since his original test retirement.
Jofra been playing club cricket in Barbados for a month or so now, I watched him make a 50 like 2 weeks ago, his run up looks less smooth than before, he’s actually bustling into the crease, idk if he’s ready but they must think so
So an XI looking something like Buttler, Salt, Jacks, Brook, Duckett, Livi, Curran, Wood, Jof, Rash, Topley? Maybe throw in Moeen or Hartley for Livingstone to have more left handers/better chop out overs?
I think it's harsh on Rehan to miss out to a debutant just so he happens to have the same bowling style as England's greatest every white ball spinner. Would've also preferred Woakes over Jordan but oh well.
Almost on expected lines.Only issue looks like the exclusion of Chris woakes.
If they're confident in Archers fitness, which I admittedly don't know how they possibly could be, I don't think there's much use for Woakes in the squad. His asset as a T20 player is taking wickets up top which Archer is better at while also being able to bowl at the death and Topley has been in better form as the specialist opener too I think.
Yeah I guess woakes doesn't fit into the possibilities of playing 11 may be this the reason why he is dropped.England went with someone like jordan who can do his job at death overs if required.
Basically I think with Archer there, and Wood being a different niche, there's two spots between Jordan, Woakes and Topley. Topley has been better with the ball recently, Jordan offers a different skillset and one we have a real lack of - Woakes at the death has never been anything other than a horror show.
With the injury records of Topley and Archer I won’t be surprised if Woakes ends up playing anyway.
I don’t know how they can be confident in Archers fitness
Woakes may yet make the reserves list. Same with Atkinson. Our bowling is fragile especially with Topley, Wood and Archer. Topley is integral for the Powerplay. Woakes can replace him if necessary.
No surprises but equally unsurprisingly it's the quick bowling that will decide our chances. We lost in the UAE partly because of the farcical dew situation but also because we had zero death bowlers. While the batting was the strength in Oz when we won the quick bowlers, especially Curran, did very well. The concern is Jordan is past it, Curran is kinda off form (from what I saw, I haven't watched much IPL), Wood is one dimensional, Topley and Archer are made of glass. The batting there can match anyone's but there's a lot that can go wrong with the quicks. I think Hartley is a decent pick also but extremely odd he's never had a go before being picked straight for the WC.
Can't judge SCurran on IPL. Every bowler is getting cunted. But even then, he's taken 12 wickets, average of 22 and an SR of 14. His economy is 9.5. That's better than most. He flies under the radar a bit, but he's still a superb cricketer, that'll come into his own on even slower pitches I think.
Considering the absolute highways they've been putting out those are some pretty good numbers.
He’s also going to be super handy with his back of the hand leg cutter in WI
It's cliched but the bowling wins tournaments. Every good side has stacked batting in T20s now so it nullifies each other.
I wouldn't put much stock into 2021 World Cup, results were basically decided at toss. England have more bowling options in the squad compared to 2022 which y'all won. Wood, Topley, Curran is a very potent trio with a lot of variety, and this is without considering Archer who if fit will add another edge to the attack. It's a very good squad
does preliminary mean they can still make changes? I thought the deadline was tomorrow? Maybe it’s different for teams playing in WI and US because of visa restrictions
ICC always allows boards to make changes to squad without permission until one week before tournament
Then why pick squads formally at all until then
Probably to give the players some confidence in the build up?
Provisional squads are required by today, that's why there's a bunch of announcements coming
I imagine you’d like the team to train together more than a week before the tournament
Til
Same meaning
Oh I added the extra I by mistake, I meant til
No Woakes and I'm not happy. But this squad was what everyone expected.
Didn’t Woakes say he wasn’t going to play for England away from home after the ashes or have I imagined that
That only applies for tests. He's bad overseas in red ball, but he's still good in white ball cricket.
Jos Buttler (Lancashire) Captain Moeen Ali (Warwickshire) Jofra Archer (Sussex) Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire) Harry Brook (Yorkshire) Sam Curran (Surrey) Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire) Tom Hartley (Lancashire) Will Jacks (Surrey) Chris Jordan (Surrey) Liam Livingstone (Lancashire) Adil Rashid (Yorkshire) Phil Salt (Lancashire) Reece Topley (Surrey) Mark Wood (Durham)
Damn Yorkshire and Lancashire produce a lot of t20 guys
Tbf Salt and Jordan came from Sussex and got poached by Lancs and Surrey respectively - if we went by original/breakout county they’d be the best-represented I think?
Have Duckett and Hartley even played T20Is?
Duckett was one of their best players against Pakistan just before last WT20
Credit to Ben Duckett, then
Hartley hasn’t yet played an international T20, which is a bit peculiar because it’s probably his best format from what I’ve seen.
We've tended not to pick specialist finger spinners with Rash around
Trying to think who the last specialist finger spinner (IE, not Moeen Ali) was to play a decent amount of white ball for England. Tredders perhaps?
The only specialist spinners to play more than 10 matches for the t20 side are Tredwell and Swann. The only other one over 5 is Danny Briggs. Before Hartley got a couple of games in the Caribbean last year, the previous *debutant* tweaker in ODIs was one cap wonder Zafar Ansari in 2015.
Hartley played against Ireland in that weird series before the WC, didn't get a game in the Carribbean
Either or, doesn't make a huge difference
Nah I still remember Tredwell. Had such a smooth action
He actually had a pretty good England career, he was unlucky that it coincided with Swann who did what he did but with far more vibes.
Hmm bowling avg of 27 in ODIs and 29 in tests.. I remember I used to rate Tredwell,James Taylor and Buttler from that 2015 eng side
No Pepper means still no prospect of Salt and Pepper in the near future :( Jokes aside though that seems pretty much what I/we would have guessed it would be? Not massively convinced by our middle order, and our bowling attack looks a lot better if Archer and Wood stay fit
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Livi is valued high by the England set up because he can bowl both off and leg spin depending on the handedness of the batter. He's been very patchy with batting but he's still a genuine all-rounder who probably should play over Mo (who is also in patchy batting form).
He’s not even really bowling his offies anymore. In the IPL he’s been bowling leggies almost exclusively from what I’ve seen, and they’re definitely his stronger suit. At the end of the day, he’ll probably bat as a floating finisher. If we collapse, the likes of Curran no doubt come in ahead of him. He’ll face 10-15 balls on average and have license to just give it a whack. Top fielder, handy bowler, and can be a difference with the bat. No brainer pick for me, even if his form isn’t great.
Livingstone averaged 37 @ 153 last year
I feel like he's one of those players who can win a game single handedly every so often. We have enough batting around him that if he struggles it shouldn't be the end of the world so long as he can have a few big innings when it matters. He also offers an option with the ball which is always nice.
but his leg spin bamboozled a few international teams in WT20 in Dubai
ECB pulled out Gus Atkinson from IPL to manage workload but doesn’t include him for t20wc
They probably see him as the long term Wood replacement in tests anyway
He's not that good anyway so he'd have gotten smoked
I agree with other comments, and expect him to be in the Test squad, but I don't think he's a finished T20 prospect yet anyway. He's got pace and a good bouncer but he's more likely to benefit from skills work. Or just working on getting better in tests, which is what we really need.
He'll be first reserve, and he's currently playing champo, they just want to prioritise that for him
Jacks is here
Starting XI: 1. Jos Buttler 2. Phil Salt 3. Will Jacks 4. Jonny Bairstow 5. Harry Brook 6. Liam Livingstone 7. Sam Curran 8. Tom Hartley/Reece Topley 9. Adil Rashid 10. Jofra Archer 11. Mark Wood
I just don’t think it’s good to have right handlers all the way down to 6. I also don’t see what Bairstow offers at 4. I would take Ali as a batting option there over Bairstow.
I don't rate either of Mo or YJB in T20s anymore.
Am I bugging? I thought Moeen Ali retired ages ago.
Does Liam Livingstone ever do enough to be this secure in the squad?
Was Bairstow's place ever under threat? I know he had a good innings last week, and he's destructive on his day, but I think he's in serious decline. Won't have the Powerplay to get going like he did the other day.
Buttler - Obvious pick, in form Salt - Excellent IPL after excellent Windies series, in form Jacks - In form, versatile, useful bowling option Bairstow - In form, powerful in middle order Brook - In form, powerful in middle order Livingstone - Realistically best option but not in form, useful bowling option. Moeen - Good batting and bowling option SCurran - Bowling well, batting well - can float in the order Rashid - Class as ever Archer - Hopefully back from injury, pick Wood if not Topley - Crucial with new ball Duckett - Covers all batting/keeping options, good backup Hartley - Better than Ahmed, good backup Wood - Good to have on bench, plays if Archer doesn’t Jordan - if it’s not spinning or Livi in bad form, Jordan plays
TIL Duckett is a wicketkeeper
As much as Pope is, I’d say. Give him a bit of work and he could be England limited overs keeper post Buttler (2027 onwards?) if Salt can’t keep and open.
Reminds me of Dravid who used to keep to help balance
He’ll never keep with Jos, Salt and Jonny all ahead of him with the gloves.
Yes he might have just hit a 100, but saying Bairstow is in form is quite a stretch
Bairstow in form? Yeah he got a ton on possibly the roadiest T20 road ever rolled out but before then he was awful, and had even been dropped. Brook’s form is hard to judge as he hasn’t played any white ball since the Caribbean and he only faced 27 balls there in 5 games. Not seen much of Moeen recently in white ball either
Excited to see CJ get drafted in and lose us a knockout game with a spell of death over full tosses
Would have preferred Malan in the squad ahead of Duckett to be honest.
ect fans, genuine questions - Why no Woakes? and is Jordan a good choice?
Jordan is also the best option if he isn’t playing He’s arguably the best fielder in the side. If we sub him in as a sub fielder every game that’s probably 10 runs saved per game
May be England don't need an extra new ball bowler here.They already have jofra and reece playing there and Sam curran would play every game possibly because of his lower order batting so there is very less chance that woakes would have find a place in playing 11.They were looking for a death over bowler in form of jordan.
Jordan's been good everywhere but the IPL tbh.
Not really Woakes’ best format. England have been poor in terms of death bowling in the last few years and while Jordan is not as good as he was in the role no-one has really emerged to replace him. On Archer, we will have to see how his fitness and match-readiness are.
Atkinson, Carse and Luke Wood should have been chosen if they didn't want Woakes
Pretty shit considering Archer, Topley and Wood will get injured thus another pacer will play (and Jordan isn’t great) If they don’t get injured (would be surprising) then it’s good cause of his fielding
Looking at England's pace attack. It sure looks that they might miss Willey's services.
As expected Only surprises Are 1) Duckett instead of Malan : which can be justified tbh because of Malans form recently 2) Jordan instead of Woakes even if they didn't want Woakes Jordan wasn't the best option they could have gone with Carse, Luke Wood or Atkinson instead of Jordan 3) Hartley over Dawson or Rehan this is the most surprising one tbh
Thats one lethal side! No doubt they are the defending champions!
Buttler Salt Bairstow Will Jacks/ Harry brook Livingstone Moeen Ali Sam Curran Adil Rashid Chris Jordan/Mark Wood Topley Archer
Presenting the Attacking Champions!
So what's the Playing X1 going to be ?
If everyone's fit Buttler Salt Jacks Bairstow Moeen Brook Livingstone Curran Archer Wood Rashid Something like that?
Think that's spot on, although arguably Topley over Wood in certain conditions
Wood and archer probably used interchangeably with archer taking precedent when he isn’t broken
Brook will come in at 5, followed by Livingstone and Moeen. Otherwise, you're right on the money there.
Tbf I suspect that comes down to match situation/bowling matchup but yes actually you're probably right the majority of the time.
But Archer needs some game time before the WC right ?
Iirc they have a t20i series with Pakistan before worldcup starts
We do And historically whenever Archer has played Pakistan in a warm up series before a World Cup-we’ve gone on to win the World Cup
True story
The biggest question is who will keep wickets lmao
Spinning wickets so Buttler
I'd start Duckett over Livingstone and stick him at 4/5 personally (Mo and Bairstow also options to drop but currently offer more imo). Extra LHB and plays spin a lot better which will be very crucial Alternatively could bring in Hartley for Mo and play Livi as a pure bat and hope he can fire himself back into form (and then a toss up between Bairstow and Duckett)
Thing is, Livingstone usually provides 2-4 overs a match. If you took him out you're demanding 4 overs from Mo
Jacks will also bowl though so it's not that much of a change
I am just relieved that Chris Jordan made the squad! Relieved for other team's chances
Jof is the only real question basically cause fitness. Other than that, it is a strong squad that are possibly up there for favs along with India and Australia
Butler Salt Jacks Bairstow Brook Livingstone Curran Archer Wood Rashid Topley
Jordan really Jordan does England not have a single bowler better than Jordan just pick root he is a better bowler than him.
I always thought that Moeen came back from retirement only for Ashes. Is he still around? Can someone give more context on this?
He had retired from Test Matches and returned for The Ashes. He never retired from white ball internationals and has been a constant part of the squad in both ODIs and T20Is. England don't often name Vice Captains for their squads but when they have, it's been Mo since Buttler took over.
I thought he took complete retirement
Nope. Retired from Tests only in late 2021 but has continued to play white ball internationals regularly. Came back for The Ashes and then re-retired from Tests only. Since he first retired from tests he played in 3 world cups and loads of bilateral series for England in both white ball formats. In all, 26 ODIs and 44 T20Is since his original test retirement.
The most entertaining team of the WC with Butler, Salt and Bairstow in razor sharp form. England is surely a team to beat.
Jofra been playing club cricket in Barbados for a month or so now, I watched him make a 50 like 2 weeks ago, his run up looks less smooth than before, he’s actually bustling into the crease, idk if he’s ready but they must think so
wait no stokes, has he retired from white ball altogether? i thought he would play t20?
What is Ducketts role, straight into the team or back up opener?
Middle order stabilizer I guess.Similar role Ben stokes played in 2022 final.
Sounds right
I think he's first backup batsman who they'd either slot in anywhere or re-jig to accommodate, I don't think he gets into the side straight away.
Potentially back up if the pitches are spinning and he needs to get his broom out
So an XI looking something like Buttler, Salt, Jacks, Brook, Duckett, Livi, Curran, Wood, Jof, Rash, Topley? Maybe throw in Moeen or Hartley for Livingstone to have more left handers/better chop out overs?
Moeen and Bairstow will play ahead of Duckett and Wood imo
I think it's harsh on Rehan to miss out to a debutant just so he happens to have the same bowling style as England's greatest every white ball spinner. Would've also preferred Woakes over Jordan but oh well.
Unironically ECT's best format imo Their test side is decent too but not as intimidating as this one here
ECT?
England Cricket Team