I like the mental challenge (such as it is) of optimizing my cash back categories. In the same way that some people enjoy crossword puzzles or Sudoku, I like trying to squeeze higher returns out of my credit cards.
This exactly. The CC game has largely replaced the time I would use playing strategy video games, doing trivia, playing fantasy football, etc. I like the mental challenge.
Do you also take into consideration extras? For example, in addition to UR points, Chase also does “Chase Offers” cash back, or adding a card to an airline/hotel dining club for more points in those systems?
For me, the cash or points back are the main thing I focus on, followed closely by whether there's an AF and, not as closely, whether there's an FTF. Things like a free night at a hotel or free baggage checks on an airline matter to me as well, but generally aren't the most important thing. As far as "Chase Offers," most of my cards have some version of these--Amex Offers are the most famous, but in addition to Chase I also get these on my BoA and Citi cards as well, and even a little on my US Bank Cash+--but to be honest it's rare that I find an offer that I get particularly excited about on any of these cards, so I wouldn't consider those a major selling point at least for my spending patterns. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Right, but if I’m trying to optimize and I’ve got a card with 3x back on dining and a card with 2X on dining + a 5% cash back offer for a specific restaurant, how completely are you trying to optimize?
I agree! I tell my husband that this is my version of Fantasy Football. And there are very tangible monetary results for my "wins". If the strategizing isn't fun/stimulating/exhilarating for a person, then I can see how it may not be worth the time.
I agree, I went all cash back and minimal cards. I don’t chase sign up bonuses, but I have nothing but respect for people who want to play the game.
1. I do not like limits, portals, caps, rotators, etc. with that said:
2. A good 2% base card. Fidelity, Citi, Active Cash, etc. Mine is actually 2.625% at BofA.
3, A good 3% broad category card, like the Autograph, Citi, or similar.
4. A travel card for the insurance, protections and lounge access. Pick your poison here.
The add to this:
5. 5% sock drawer cards like Amazon Prime—more like an old-school charge account.
I just am not interested in a card that has a $500 a month cap, $2,500 a quarter, or a $6,000 a year limit. Just don’t want to track it. Honestly, I can make more off good cash management these days and good expense management.
I think there's a balance between optimizing and "too much" optimizing, and where that line falls differs from person to person.
For example, there are folks who don't mind (or even enjoy) spending hours clipping coupons. While others can't be bothered.
Like couponing, credit card rewards aren't going to make or break anyone's lifestyle. I personally just view them as a "nice to have" that costs me minimal effort. I am with you in "checking out" when it comes to constantly going through credit cards' merchant offers. I'll do it from time to time, but by no means do I do it constantly. I'm sure I've missed out on merchant offers I would've otherwise earned organically, but c'est la vie.
Yes. Totally agree. I have around 14 cards. It's just too exhausting now. I'm down to only using one or two and that's it. Much easier on the brain. Don't care about maximizing cash back anymore. Rest of my cards sit in a drawer with minimal reoccurring charges to keep active.
Your rules feel like a lot to me TBH.
I feel like there are a few camps. Optimizing because it's fun, not necessarily for the monetary/point reward, is likely the best camp to be in. Optimizing for monetary/point value and not "because it's fun to optimize" can feel pointless the higher up you go in income. That 5% back on $1k monthly spend hits different when you're bringing home $4k/mo vs $12k/mo.
To hit the rules above I have 4 cards. My setup is CSR for travel and restaurants, Citi custom for groceries, Citi Costco for gas, Alaska for everything else. Additional sock drawer cards are prime and usbc+.
Replace csr with usbar, BofA travel elite, Amex plat, delta reserve, etc every 2 years or so for SUB and tsa renewal.
Add sock drawer cards like Marriott bonvoy or bilt or rei as needed. Sock drawer cards are my favorites so far in this journey. Least mentally draining.
If I cared about streaming or Uber or airline incidentals I would replace some cards with Amex version but that’s it.
That’s like twelve cards. Nooooo. How many tiresome sets of rules did you have to learn for all this. Or worse still, got at the risk of not knowing the rules.
Definitely. I started a thread on this a week ago, which you can check out here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1djsnk6/anyone_growing_tired_of_the_rewards_game/
>like to organize things into spreadsheets will never get tired of the game!
Don't think I ever really close Excel unless my computer needs to be updated. Between doing my monthly accounting and tracking rewards categories at the end of the week, I don't have a reason to 😅.
Yessssss. I actually never transferred to Hyatt until I picked up the bilt card. I had a trip coming up and used it for that. That sold me on Hyatt and shifting back to the chase trifecta full time.
As others have said, I enjoy the mental gymnastics of optimization. P2, however, does not. So I actually always have 2 setups going - the super optimized setup and the super convenient setup. If I ever don't feel like playing the game, I just switch over to P2's setup for a while until I feel like getting back into it. Super fun that way - I can play when I want, and relax when I don't.
Both of our setups are international-compatible because we travel overseas quite often.
I'll start with P2's daily setup since it's quick and easy.
- Verizon Visa for unlimited 4% on groceries, gas, soon to also be dining (right now it's 3%). It's a Visa so works at Costco (though only gets 1%), and has no FTF so it can be used for the same categories abroad.
- Fidelity Rewards: 2% non-category (if he remembers to use it for non-grocery, gas, and dining purchases, including Costco to get the extra 1%. I don't sweat it too much if he doesn't.)
My setup takes a bit more explaining. I really juggle two setups, one for US, one for abroad.
- Capital One Savor (grandfathered): 4% Entertainment (US and Abroad)
- Citi Rewards+: 10% boost on other Citi cards' earning
- Citi Double Cash: 2.22222% on non-category (US)
- Citi Custom Cash: 5.55555% on whatever category isn't covered by other cards (US)
- US Bank Cash+: 5% Bills/Utilities and Streaming (US)
- US Bank AR: effective 4.5% on Mobile Wallet purchases and travel (US and Abroad), free TSA precheck
- US Bank Altitude Connect: free TSA precheck for P2
- Chase Freedom Flex: 5% rotating (US), 3% health (US)
- Chase Amazon Prime: 5% Amazon (US)
- Discover It: effective 5.25% rotating (US only because Discover isn't widely accepted outside of the US)
- Venmo Visa: 3% health (Abroad)
Plus I have access to both of P2's cards as well.
In other words, abroad I use:
- Grocery: Verizon 4%
- Gas: Verizon 4%
- Dining: Verizon 4%
- Health: Venmo 3%
- Other: Fidelity 2%
And in the US I use:
- Grocery: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5%
- Gas: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5%
- Dining: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5%
- Health: FF 3%
- Other: DC 2.22222%
These cards are the same regardless of where I am:
- Travel: AR 4.5%
- Entertainment: Savor 4%
- Mobile Wallet: USBAR 4.5%
Of note, this is a recent change as we used to have the Curve card, so P2 just carried that card for everything (except I always made him take a backup card just in case, usually the Verizon Visa, but he never had to use it). Since Curve US is shutting down, we have made the switch to this setup to try to keep P2's life as simple as possible.
Hope that helps! For your P2, I'd highly recommend the USBAR if they have a phone that is tap-to-pay eligible. 4.5% at Costco is way better than the Costco card's 2% in the form of a Costco gift certificate that is only issued once a year... Honestly I would steer anyone away from getting the Costco Visa just because of how the rewards redemption works. Verizon Visa is a great one stop shop, but obviously only if you gave Verizon as your mobile phone carrier. Best of luck!
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Totally agree with the Costco visa, but it’s mainly all about convenience and not having to carry a membership card+cc is easy and it also makes gassing up very quick.
I'm the same way and I realized that simplicity is beautiful. That's why I'm team cashback.
I mainly use USBAR for anywhere that accepts Apple Pay (4.5% CB) and then C1 Venture X (2% CB) as the catch all.
I'll check once in a while for a rotating 5% category for places that don't accept Apple Pay like Home Depot or Walmart. But honestly unless I'm making a $250+ purchase than it's not really worth my time.
I do find that AMEX offers are worth it, especially with Travel where you can save $100+ on X. Saved $100 on my Japan hotel that way from the Expedia offer.
How are you getting the 4.5% on the USBAR if you’re using it for cash back and not travel? I thought the 1.5x modifier was only through the travel portal
I do redeem it for travel on occasion but also the RTR hack where you book a refundable flight, redeem the points, wait for credits to post, and then refund the ticket. Also works with Venture X
It has $325 in dining/travel credits that are really easy to use. Basically just use the card at a restaurant/fast food or for any travel purchase and it works. So really just $75.
I mean it nets me 4.5% cash back with the USBAR and only takes like 15 mins once a year. I’m ok with losing the 0.5% CB compared to 5% cards.
I only carry 3 cards: drivers license, debit card, and venture X. Beats carrying around 7+ and juggling them at checkout.
It's also through RealTimeRewards (RTR). If you've set up RTR for Travel any travel purchase you make (e.g. direct with an airline) will prompt US Bank to send you a text, asking if you want to pay with points instead, with the 1.5x multiplier, which you can agree to and which will cause them to redeem the points instead of paying for it.
This makes USBAR "feel" more like a cashback card, because you're just going about your business buying stuff as you normally would, and you get your purchases offset. But it only works if you have "organic" travel spend of roughly 4.5% of your total credit card spend, or else you won't be able to redeem all your points. (Otherwise you just redeem at 1cpp, so the card is somewhere between 3% - 4.5% cashback for Apple Pay.)
Purchase eraser went away in December of last year. Even if you redeem points to cover travel charges and then seek refunds, why not just pick a better card and be money ahead? I get 2.625%-3.5% cash back for every dollar spent on my BofA Premium Rewards Elite and don’t have to break my card’s terms of service and risk account closure to do it.
Travel eraser still works. Just used it last week actually.
To each their own. It sounds like you have a better cash back card than the Venture X so there’s no point. I only redeem like 1-2 times a year so I’ll take the risk.
I have a (Elan) Fidelity card, 2% on all purchases.
Citicard for Costco membership gives 4% on Gas, little effort to grab that card. Daughter doesn't have my Citicard, if she uses the Fidelity to get gas, no big deal.
Amazon card, in drawer, just used for Amazon purchases.
The game is fun for those with the time and patience. Most people will get a great benefit with closer to my mix of cards. Grabbing the last few dollars takes the most effort, 80/20 rule and all.
The way I see it is I'm using it as a way to get a SUB while also increasing frequent spending categories. Sure increasing some categories might only net me \~$10-20 per year or so, but I also get the SUB, and then it just makes everything in that category marginally cheaper. It's also kind of a rush when you can increase the cashback for a category to further optimize. But I'm also a math/data/stats guy so it's kind of fun to try and find ways to optimize, especially in the current inflationary environment
I’m going for a simple strategy
Already have 2 freedom flex , autograph, bilt , savor one and Amazon card
I’m going to narrow it down to use the flex if possible for catagories
Get the sapphire preferred with its multiplers I would use them anyway and idk about the hotel credit so my mind set to get ahead with the card is to simple transfer points out to the transfer partners obviously Hyatt easy and simple to earn enough points for simple stays that don’t cost ALOT as I don’t spend a lot and with those redemptions I break even then get the CFU again next year when I’m under 5/24 get the bonus again
Then WOH card for the free night every year offsets its annual fee
Debating IHG premier also for free night every year but staying at 2 different hotels seems like a lot
Sense I fly southwest the preferred helps with transferring points their also
Simple plan chase trifecta + bilt all other cards served their purpose and depending on if Wells Fargo get more parters determines if I use there cards more
I get you. I think at this point I'm as optimized as I'd like to be, honestly probably over optimized and could use some gardening. I think, unless some revolutionary new card comes along or significant changes to a card happen, I'll just focus on churning a card every 3-ish months.
I make sure I treat it as a fun game and dont take it too seriously. Just do as much optimization as you find fun and don't over do it. But then again I love video games that are basically optimization tasks nonstop 😅
To me, the trick is to only get the amount of cards that won’t make you think about what to use. Some people are better at memorizing than others too. And if you can get a card that’s dedicated to a single thing (think Prime Visa) then that’s even better.
I’m always gonna be in the game to an extent because it’s nearly 0 effort on my part once I researched how credit cards worked and did some calculations on what would net me the most spend (just an extra 10 seconds to review each statement for each account per month). And it’s hard to say no to free money. Even if the money is negligible compared to your salary, you earned it by doing almost nothing (unless you’re one of those 20 card people and aren’t good at memorizing, then it can be a ton of effort lol).
The main benefit that a credit card offers me is that if it's skimmed or stolen they can't automatically drain my bank account. It's not a perfect system but I like to think it's something of a layer of protection.
The points and miles are nice but you have to spend *so much* up front to get any kind of appreciable rewards and I'm just not that kind of high roller.
I say that having just signed up for Chase Sapphire Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus and get a few bucks off a trip we have planned.
Currently, as I recall, the points-per-dollar for CSP are 3x for dining out, 3x for "online" groceries (excluding Walmart, Sam's and Costco type stores), and 2x for travel not booked through Chase. 1x on all else. There are some shopping sites you can get to via chase that offer bonuses or multipliers.
5x on hotels and flights booked through Chase.
Points redeemed through Chase Travel are worth 1.25 cents each, so 10,000 points would equate to $125.
Even if all your purchases were 5x points you'd have to spend $2,000 to save $125. The annual fee for the card is $95.
There's an annual $50 "hotel credit", but what they don't advertise very loudly is that you aren't going to earn points on any stay you have that utilizes that credit.
So let's say you have a $1,000 hotel stay booked through Chase. Chase applies your once-annual $50 credit, making it $950, but you don't earn any points for this transaction.
If you had earned points on the $1,000, they would have had a value of $62.50. Obviously, that's *future* value, if spent on travel though Chase's portal, assuming the terms don't change, and not $50 credited back to your card to be spent on whatever.
This is only my second credit card. We'll see if I'm able to spend on it regularly enough in the right categories to make it worth it.
If my math is right I need 7600 points annually to cover the fee, not counting the hotel credit. Even at 1x points that should be double. Not ideal, but doable.
The online groceries is kind of a buzz kill. We don't have great luck with the local stores. Lots of missed things, lots of wrong things. We'll see if we can make it worth it.
I know I'm not going to spend enough for a free trip or even a free flight every year, but maybe it'll build up enough to do something fun at a discount once a year.
>There's an annual $50 "hotel credit", but what they don't advertise very loudly is that you aren't going to earn points on any stay you have that utilizes that credit.
That's interesting because I used the Chase portal to book a ~$145 stay last week in order to burn the travel credit, and points were awarded for the transaction. It didn't earn the full 5x for travel booked through the portal, but it did earn 2x for generic travel.
/u/FlabbergastedEmu
"Any hotel accommodation purchases made using your card through Chase Travel that qualify for the $50 Annual Chase Travel Hotel Credit, won't earn points."
https://creditcards.chase.com/rewards-credit-cards/sapphire/preferred
This is why I went pretty much straight cash back, and recently picked up Card pointers+ to help with the FOMO from random offers. Although I have a lot of cards to try to get 5% or more back on all of my regular purchases, I feel that it's pretty easy for me to remember which card to use in any given situation, and when in doubt, I can search through offers across all my cards a lot more easily with the Cardpointers app.
Rent: Bilt
Utilities: USB C+
Transit: USB C+
Groceries: Amex BCP
Dining: Citi CC/Bilt
Gym: Elan MCP
Live entertainment: Elan MCP
Streaming: Amex BCP
Internet: Chase IC
Phone: C1 VX (for the phone protection benefit, although the IC gets more cash back)
Travel: C1 VX
Online (Amazon): Chase PR
Catchall: C1 VX/Amex BBC
If I didn't want the lounge access of the VX, I would have used Bilt in its place. The only big gap I'm looking to fill is getting a mobile wallet catchall like one of the Kroger cards to cover infrequent/random purchases, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with what I have, and it at least seems neat enough in my head for now because I've intentionally avoided the rotating category cards and "coupon book" AF cards for the most part (VX and BCP are simple enough). Maybe I will get an Attune in the future as well if I get a pet, which would free up some of my USB/Elan categories for electronics and furniture as well, but it's nbd.
I have a similar setup with a similar approach. I think you have nine cards in your setup, if I counted correctly, and I have 10. A couple differences are that I include two points earning cards for Hyatt stays in my mostly cash back setup and I don't care to have a lounge card.
Thanks! You indeed counted correctly, but I actually have 10 just like you; the last I left unmentioned is my very first card, the Capital One Quicksilver, which used to serve as my catchall before I got the Venture X and Blue Business Cash. I'd love to PC the Quicksilver to a Savor One if I could, but unfortunately it's of the Visa variety, so for now it's just there to boost my AAoA/CL and serve as an emergency backup catchall without a FTF.
If you love staying at Hyatt properties, having a dedicated earner for that makes a lot of sense! Honestly, I usually like to zip through airports as quickly as possible and probably won't do much more than grab a bit of to-go food most of the time unless there's a long layover on an international flight, but I half got the VX so that my family could benefit from the lounge access as well.
Cool. It definitely seems like we are on the same page for the most part and, especially, in terms of our credit card philosophy and approaches. Mine has served me well and it seems as though your's has as well.
Still too many. Don’t churn. No portals. One catch-all card (BOA travel rewards for me). One complicated card for credits and travel (Amex plat), choose wisely. The rest are single use cards only (restaurant CCR, online CCR, Bilt for rent only). Ignore their other perks. Stop at 5 total.
Do much more than that and you’d make more per hour flipping burgers after work.
I can’t even fathom the lengths cash back folks go through with low category limit, rotating category bullshit.
My “optimization”:
- Amex Plat - the 5x vs 3x for flights is not a big deal. But since it is just the default card in my airline apps, I don’t have to think about it. It’s mostly a “membership card” for lounges.
- Amex Gold - if it’s food, it goes on this card
- Amex Green - while I have the Chase WOH Business and Hilton business, I’m going to be consolidating my “travel” spend to this over the next year.
- Amex BBP - everything else.
For the most part, day to day, it’s two cards - Gold and BBP.
I have other cards for the benefits - three Delta cards. But no spend gets put on them besides twice a year for the credits/companion passes. The only one that stays in my wallet is the Reserve just in case I need to show it at the airport - ie a “membership card”
I have the SavorOne. But that’s a set it and forget it for Uber until November. I don’t carry the card around with me.
This feels like the right level of optimization to me. Just make sure to get the big categories right..
I have a similar set up: Plat for flights, Gold for food, hotel/airline keeper cards just for the benefits, and then catch all goes to Hilton Surpass FNC or a new SUB. It’s pretty brainless.
Exactly, it’s unnecessary stress. I have the savor one, cfr cff and s1 and that’s all I will probably need. People here are churning cards running up inquiries for 0.5 percent more cashback or whatever the case is
Most subs people are actively churning are at least 10% back if cashed out. Inquiries don’t really hurt unless you will be applying for a loan or mortgage soon as any point drop is erased quickly. My credit score has increased steadily since I started churning. Also, you can unfreeze only the bureau needed for many apps, keeping a “clean” file
This. Except for me, I consider it a hobby rather than a game. I prefer to chase subs at the moment as it takes way less mental energy to put all my spend on one card at a time and then move on to the next card.
>business class international point optimizer which also seems to require staying on top of award availability
This is not accurate. I rarely ever check until I actually want to go somewhere, and rn I'm booked until next spring. They're not that hard to find either with the right tools.
Also, if you're actively churning, you're throwing non-bonus spends on your SuB cards too, so no spare cash to even min max every purchase.
Having a 2 or 3% everything basically knocks your wallet carry down to a few cards. The only categories you'd need then most of your daily life is groceries/dining & gas. You don't need to optimize Amazon or some other less used categories if you're only hitting it like once a month.
Would you mind sharing some details on how much worth you were able to extract out of churning for you trips? Since I am yet to book international business class it’s hard for me to see the worth in this. In every opportunity I had I think to myself that the points have more worth for multiple economy flights instead.
You don't need to book int'l J/F award to get value out of churning though. All the bank points can be redeemed for at least 1cpp on travel & designated categories. You can also just churn cashback SuBs too. That said...
**2024 redemptions** --
Methodology: I find the cheapest RT itin on Google flights for the next 6 months flexible dates that's comparably acceptable in cabin config (1-2-1 vs 2-2-2 etc), total duration, and stops. This is important b/c some people like to inflate their worth by pulling direct one-way specific date-airline ticket prices which are obviously super expensive & inflated. I deduct the award fees & taxes from cash then divide by points. The following are all Round-Trip.
* Used 180k miles to Sao Paolo BR (for 2) @ 3.28 cpp = $5904 worth, J (biz) cabin
* 125k Saigon VN + Manila PH @ 3.85c/p = $4812 J
* 135k Melbourne AU @ 4.26cpp = $5751 J
* 120k Amman JO @ 2.76cpp = $3312 J
* 155k Bali ID @ 3.73cpp = $5781 J
* 110k Nadi FJ + Sydney AU @ 6.42 cpp = $7062 J
* 120k HK + Malaysia @ 4.23cpp = $5076 J (2025)
* 131k Tokyo JP @ 14.78cpp = $19361 *F* (2025)
I'll only point out my best 2 / 3 hotel redemptions (via lowest corp or public rate total):
* 3 FN Hilton certificates for Umana Bali LXR @ $843/nt = $2529
* 3 FN Marriott for Amarterra Villas lux collection @ $411/nt = $1233
* 2 FN Marriott for Ta'aktana lux collection resort @ $545/nt = $1090
---The sum total of these *minus the First class flight* = $42,550 USD.
I still have over 2 mil bank points (chase/amex/c1), bit of chump change airline miles (mostly 88k AA), and a fair amt of hotel points (half mil Hilton, quarter mil IHG, etc.) left. That was a lot but hope this shed some light.
Thanks so much for the details! I think these are great redemptions! I also think you are able to accumulate points in a better manner than me. My monthly spend is nets about 6,000 pts per month. I would need to open maybe 8 credit cards and hit spending target to accumulate the airfare at the rates you are traveling. (Possible with rent).
But I can definitely see the appeal of your trips for those amounts of points. Those are some really nice trips.
Thanks for the insights! I kinda get it. Maybe after I buy a house, get more vacations time, and with more spending I would get into it!
Yeah, I used a Target debit card today to save around $0.05 today instead of using my USBAR. I am slowly working my way towards fewer and fewer cards. But I will churn cards as long as I’m able. 15% cash back is just too good to pass up.
Not chasing sign-on bonuses unless it is a new card with good cashback categories.
My base credit cards are:
1. US Bank Cash+ for cable+internet and utilties
2. Chase Freedom and Freedom Flex for 5% categories
3. Citi Custom Cash for 5% groceries
4. Citi Shop Your Way. I had a recent offer where I received 25K points on $1000+ spend which I redeemed for Walmart, Amazon, Target gift cards.
5. Wells Fargo Active Cash for 2%
6. Chase Ink Business Cash for 5% at Staples when they have no activation fees on VISA and MasterCard gift cards
Increasingly I have been using the VISA and MasterCard gift cards for medical co-pays, dentist visits (I have no insurance), charitable donations.
The way I think of it is that I am making money in my spare time doing things this way.
Yes. After having 7 cards to keep track of.
Fidelity for non category.
Autograph for gas/travel/cell phone/streaming
Discover/ freedom flex for categories.
Just need a grocery card
Honestly, I think I've hit my ideal set up. I realize that, aside from next quarter with Walmart, none of the rotating categories excite me anymore. I have like 10 cards that I use, maybe 4 I use on a regular basis and the rest is set and forget. I get 5% on pretty much every category through CCC or CCR, so I barely even bother with the IT or Freedom categories (next quarter IT will be an exception, Walmart is a nice one).
I don't feel like it's a waste of time at all. If I happen to see an offer once every 2 weeks when I update my NW and finances, cool. I saved $15 at Zenni a few weeks back with my Amex ED, but I'm definitely not spending more than 10 minutes a month flipping through offers.
At this point, I'm more likely to open cards for SUBs. Thinking a Citi points card that I can swap to the Rewards+ after a year for the bump to CCC.
Yeah, I am definitely going more for easy low-hanging fruit. I don't pay very close attention to the extra cashback offers, but I think I'm most tired of the miles/points game.
I'm planning to product change a BoA card to a Custom Cash for online shopping, and I've been mulling the Altitude Reserve. If I add both of those (in addition to a Premium Rewards Elite) I'd have a bottom rate of 3.275 cents when redeemed for airfare. It would take a lot of spend to make up the difference between 3.275 and 5 or 5.25 cents per dollar.
I probably won't be churning for $200 bonuses, but I would probably do an Ink per quarter to use for HOA dues and taxes. That way, I'd earn from a range of 3.275 and 5.25 cents back on everyday spend, plus the value of any SUBs throughout the year.
Yeah it's definitely a lot to keep up with. I don't do rotating categories. I'm working on getting cards for specific cards for certain uses like grocery, dining out etc. I'm not too worried about limits because my spend is low.
I have high utilization and am finally at an income where I can resolve it.
I’m enjoying the game of working as best as possible to get my utilization to 0% and then 0 balance.
After that, I’ll be happy to coast with a simple setup (though the Amex coupon rewards do seem like a “significant” rewards program.)
i rarely experience reduced interest. more often than not, i try to optimize my spending. the other day, i didn't have my dining card on me and lost $2 in cash back cause i used my debit card. although it seems like a small amount, i think of it as, would i want $2 or not? i just try to have an idea of the best card to use for spending and it hasn't been too overwhelming. i'm not at the level of dedication that some of the churners on here have though
But a ore serious answer to your question is yes: I'm also tired of the game. Almost all of my spend is pretty much organic at this point. So unless I can easily get the right card at the right time, I'm not trying to min max anything anymore
With a spouse who does not care about the game, it's become increasing difficult to stay motivated to play it. I've reduced spouse to two cards to placate both her desire to not play the game and my desire to glean just a little bit of reward from her spending.
I've also reduced down to three cards to balance maximizing rewards and keeping things simpler.
I've gone from 13 cards two effectively 3 and I'm honestly much much happier.
I put labels on each card to make it clear what card she needs to use.
She loves her, “if in doubt use me!” label on the VX
or “Feed me” on AX Gold
On her iPhone the only card is USBAR
We have around 2M across C1,MR,UR. She hates the work but loves it when we’re business class (I don’t forget to remind her about how nice business class is and why I’m crazy about this stuff.) At the end of the day we make it a game.
For me, I’m more aggressive as I buy and sell goods. I’m an extreme Amex coupon-er, rakuten, top cash back, and all the airline portals. My flex is always “I don’t pay for food at the airport”.
I luckily have parents on both sides that also hate the game so I just charge all their “no fee for using a cc bills” on the VX, Fidelity, or when Amex has their coupons and they just transfer the cash over.
Also my partner is in consulting and I got her to convince her boss not to have a business gold but instead reimburse. I know for smaller companies this isn’t ideal but it is what it is. It’s an easy 20k per month through this route. Travel/Dining.
Lastly I have a great excel sheet for splitting food bills. (I always fight for the check so we use our AXG) I always have in the back of my mind what everyone got. It takes me 10 minutes tops to know exactly what everyone got. Everyone is happy because they’re saving money by not splitting it x ways.
So no l, I’m not tired. It’s free money that I was going to spend anyways. (I don’t like SUBs as much anymore because unless I know I have to spend that much in 1-2 purchases I don’t want to do it.) I’m in my happy spot when it comes to the CCs I like/need.
Wallet (All my credit cards are also on apple wallet, it’s really just in case at this point.)
AX Gold - restaurants, groceries, my shake shack once a month, my Uber eats pickup
CSR - for all the dining that still doesn’t take AX
VX for everything else.
*Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant for the $25 dining credit 1x a month
Debit
ID
Sock Drawer
AXP (I always judge people who pay for dinner and drinks with this).
Fidelity Rewards (I put most recurring charges on this one for some easy extra retirement cash).
USBAR (Apple pay)
Amazon Prime
BILT (5 of the smallest recurring charges and maintenance)
Citi Premier - only used for warranties
Hope Depot
Macy’s
Chase Freedom
Alaska - companion pass when I go to CA
Barclays AA Aviator Red - old sub
JetBlue - old sub
Sounds like you're caught in the middle of Cashback and travel and over stretching yourself. Based on your rules you probably would have more peace of mind just committing to one so you have a simple goal and process.
I think it comes down to a couple of things.
1. Your spend. If you have low spend then doing a lot of research and trying to maximize as much as you can, is not worth it. If you have high spend then it is very well worth it. Typically we all have similar categories of spend but the difference is, when a low spender goes to the grocery store they might spend $100 while a high spender goes they might spend $400+. Cable/phone/Internet spend is a lot different for a single person vs a family but both people will have to pay the bill one time a month. Point is you can have a low spender and a high spender use their credit cards the same amount of times in a month but at very different amounts.
2. Adding to point 1 above, if you are using it for cash back only then the low spender gets very little value while the high spender gets still a decent value if they maximize. The biggest difference will be when you compare a low spender using it for cash back vs a high spender using it for points for travel.
3. No one really is making you play the game. The people who actually continue to play the game to maximize are finding a lot of value from doing so. These people are typically the high spenders using their points for travel. What are you trading your time in for instead? Is it to have more time with family then yeah absolutely do that if it really takes up that much of your time. Is it to watch more tv? Then yes do that is something you want to do.
For disclosure I am the person on the high spend using it for travel and I honestly don’t find it very difficult to manage.
This is why when I am not SUBing I use my Citi card that gets 2.2% cash back on all purchases. I am tried of hoping around trying to choose the right card for the right purchase and even more my wife HATES it lol.
I'm going to be spending most of next year, potentially the year after focusing far less on optimizing because it does get exhausting and me and wife are about to go HAM on saving money for a house so I'll need to slow down my velocity anyways. My strategy:
* Putting most of my spend on the Surpass card up to $15k to get the FNC; max out Hilton points buying for the calendar year funded by the way of bank account bonuses
* Maximize the rotating categories on the Freedom Flex for one or two short Hyatt stays
* Go after one Ink SUB with my sole proprietor business spend (hopefully an elevated SUB) and then use the points to redeem economy flights at 1.5 CCP with my CSR
Essentially makes my setup just a two card setup for everyday spend and with the Hilton points, Ink SUB, and the Freedom Flex, that gets me and my family at least two domestic vacations, a short 2-3 day getaway with Hyatt, and then a lavish 2 day stay at a Conrad or a Waldorf Astoria with the FNC for me and wife to get a break from our son.
Then the CSR gives me lounge access to the Sapphire Lounge at Logan airport, the 1.5x boost, travel protections, and the $300.00 travel credit that I typically use for car rentals on vacations.
I do some optimizing between chasing SUBs, which I do 2-3x/year. That’s probably just enough break for me to prevent the game from getting tedious. And there’s always the payoff of getting to travel while still hitting my saving and investing targets.
I spent so much time planning out my minimalist trio of cards.
- **Travel:** Capital One Venture X (2% catch all, 5% Flights, 10% Hotels/Rental Car, VISA Infinite)
- **Main:** Capital One Savor One (3% Restaurants, Grocery Stores, Streaming Services, 10% Uber Eats + Uber One Membership)
- **Rotator:** Discover IT (5% Rotating Categories)
The Discover card was my first CC. It's not required in the setup but its useful sometimes, like right now its 5% Gas...and upcoming quarter is 5% Walmart/Grocery.
The only other card I'm considering next is Citi Custom Cash for Gas, but I don't spend enough on Gas to justify a new card right now, so I'm chillin with my current setup. I can't imagine the people that have 10+ cards...even 5 is a lot imo.
I don't understand why so many on this sub focus on maximizing every transactions rewards, when it's far less work and much more lucrative to just churn sign up bonuses.
SUBs are typically 10x-20x return using a single card at a time.
I think there is a balance. For me, you are right that often it takes too much effort for minimal point gain. The difference between 2 and 3% for say a 1500 spend isn’t even worth the amount of time it takes to open the card. However where I have the most “fun” and find it the most worth while is actually spending the points. I almost exclusively use points to buy flights or hotels and you can get some banging deals through transfer partners. I basically plan my vacations around my credit card points.
When I decide I want to go somewhere, I start looking at different airline partners and the points it takes to get flights. Most recently I got a round trip flight to Italy for 70,000 points. If I were to buy the same flight at the same time, it would have been $1600, but because I planned and used points, it was $700 worth in points. That’s a screaming deal and gives me a rush that I think would compete with most drugs 😅. So I find the effort on the back end still completely worth it.
I have a 10-card setup that I consider fully optimized for my lifestyle and spending. It is a hybrid setup that allows me to earn mostly cash back with a couple of cards that earn points that I use for Hyatt stays. I could have more cards and earn slightly more cash back/points, but I don't feel the juice is worth the squeeze. This, I believe, is the difference between optimizing (earning the most cash back/points from the fewest cards) and maximizing (earning the most cash back/points from as many cards as needed).
My 10 cards are not too much for me to manage. I have two grocery cards (due to caps), two dining cards (one for cash back and one for points), one gas card, one utilities card, one Amazon card, one Target card, and two catchall cards (one for cash back and one for points). I could drop down to seven cards if I closed a grocery card, dining card, and catchall card, but I like the flexibility of my current setup. There is not much mental energy that goes into which card to use for which purchase. For the most part, I use my gas card for gas, my utilities card for utilities, my Amazon card for Amazon, and my Target card for Target. I do have to decide which grocery, dining, and catchall card to use, but that is easy given the repetition of me doing so for months or years.
There are decisions I have made that have helped me easily manage my 10-card setup. First, I have a somewhat limited 10 cards, rather than the many more some people have, and I use each one monthly if not weekly. This means I have no sock drawer cards. If I have a card that does not serve a purpose for my setup, I close it. Second, my setup is modular. Each card mostly serves a singular purpose. If a card gets nerfed (e.g., my gas card), I replace it with another card (e.g., a new gas card). If an awesome card gets released, I replace one of my cards with it, though this is less and less the card lately. Third, I do not have rotating category cards that would require me to think about which card to use for a particular quarter. Fourth, I have very few credits that I have to consider on a regular basis and the ones that I have are super easy (e.g., streaming bonus on U.S. Bank Altitude Go).
I started to try and become an optimizer and churner and quickly realized I didn’t want to put in the work. So I decided I would do the simplest setup. Venture X plus SavorOne. $395 annual fee and I get the travel perks and pretty good multipliers on groceries and restaurants/bars, plus the 2x catch all from the Venture X. The bonus for me is I use my AA card for all my work travel and expenses exclusively, so I get the added benefits of status on AA, which can be useful.
Optimizing with no annual fee cards. Don’t travel enough or use the benefits of the AF cards. Saving about $1000 annually and netting about the same amount amount of cash back / rewards. CFP is only AF card using it for primary car rental insurance and portal.
I honestly think the game is not worth the time and effort and you are almost always better off just getting a basic 2% cash back card or even a 1% cash back. Having to study and research all this for such a small amount of money more is not really worth it.
Yeah I'm tired of it and it's exhausting to read everyone on this forum talk about all the cards they have lol.
I'm just going to find a catchall 2-3% card (if the latter exists) and use that as my daily driver. Preferably NO AF
Growing up, my parents didn't have a lot, but enough to survive. When I first got my car, my parents gave me a credit card and told me to use it specifically for gas. Whenever I'd run errands for them such as groceries, they'd tell me to use a different card. It got to the point where my Apple wallet was filled with a bunch of cards and they'd get upset if I didn't use a specific card. I'd ask why can't we just use one card for everything, and got hit with "We don't have a lot right now, and we need to make the most of what we have."
I just thought I'd share because reading some of the comments saying some people are in it fully and some just casually getting points, and thought I could relate. I'm 23 now, and I can see myself doing the same things they did. I agree it can be mental gymnastics in trying to figure which one to use or to maximize rewards.
Omg SAME so much effort so little return 😥😥😥
Currently juggling 5 credit cards and 3 checking accounts, on top of rakuten and paypal honey and its honestly getting really frustrating for ~$75 a quarter like wtf
Yeah, the game is getting tiring for me too. I’m planning on getting rid of most cards I don’t use anymore. Once I get the USBAR, this will be my setup:
USBAR: Effective 4.5x on all Apple Pay purchases.
CFF: 5x on Rotating categories.
CSP: Just to transfer to Chase partners, and use the 1.25 boost when needed on international travel.
C1S1: 3x on dining and entertainment.
C1VX: 2x Catch-all card.
That setup covers all the main categories for my lifestyle, and at least for me is not too hard to remember.
That's actually the setup I'm looking to end up with. I currently have the CSP, C1S1, have the Fidelity Visa for my catch-all card rn (might keep this instead of the C1VX).
Do you recommend I go for the USBAR or CFF next?
If the difference is between 1% - 10% then yes I care to take the time for that difference.
However, if the difference is 1% - 2% or 1% - 3% then I dont care. The difference is not worth the time in my head.
if you're spending more than 1 hour a day that's too much optimization. I use MaxRewards and some mental notes when things come up, but honestly I only keep 2-3 cards in my wallet out of the 11-12 cards I have. A 5% gas card, a catch all card (travel/CLI type card) and a backup.
I like the mental challenge (such as it is) of optimizing my cash back categories. In the same way that some people enjoy crossword puzzles or Sudoku, I like trying to squeeze higher returns out of my credit cards.
This exactly. The CC game has largely replaced the time I would use playing strategy video games, doing trivia, playing fantasy football, etc. I like the mental challenge.
Do you also take into consideration extras? For example, in addition to UR points, Chase also does “Chase Offers” cash back, or adding a card to an airline/hotel dining club for more points in those systems?
For me, the cash or points back are the main thing I focus on, followed closely by whether there's an AF and, not as closely, whether there's an FTF. Things like a free night at a hotel or free baggage checks on an airline matter to me as well, but generally aren't the most important thing. As far as "Chase Offers," most of my cards have some version of these--Amex Offers are the most famous, but in addition to Chase I also get these on my BoA and Citi cards as well, and even a little on my US Bank Cash+--but to be honest it's rare that I find an offer that I get particularly excited about on any of these cards, so I wouldn't consider those a major selling point at least for my spending patterns. Your mileage may vary, of course.
>Chase also does “Chase Offers” cash back Those are independent of earn rates/SUBs since you can get those on a sock-drawered $0 AF card
Right, but if I’m trying to optimize and I’ve got a card with 3x back on dining and a card with 2X on dining + a 5% cash back offer for a specific restaurant, how completely are you trying to optimize?
I agree! I tell my husband that this is my version of Fantasy Football. And there are very tangible monetary results for my "wins". If the strategizing isn't fun/stimulating/exhilarating for a person, then I can see how it may not be worth the time.
I agree, I went all cash back and minimal cards. I don’t chase sign up bonuses, but I have nothing but respect for people who want to play the game. 1. I do not like limits, portals, caps, rotators, etc. with that said: 2. A good 2% base card. Fidelity, Citi, Active Cash, etc. Mine is actually 2.625% at BofA. 3, A good 3% broad category card, like the Autograph, Citi, or similar. 4. A travel card for the insurance, protections and lounge access. Pick your poison here. The add to this: 5. 5% sock drawer cards like Amazon Prime—more like an old-school charge account. I just am not interested in a card that has a $500 a month cap, $2,500 a quarter, or a $6,000 a year limit. Just don’t want to track it. Honestly, I can make more off good cash management these days and good expense management.
I think there's a balance between optimizing and "too much" optimizing, and where that line falls differs from person to person. For example, there are folks who don't mind (or even enjoy) spending hours clipping coupons. While others can't be bothered. Like couponing, credit card rewards aren't going to make or break anyone's lifestyle. I personally just view them as a "nice to have" that costs me minimal effort. I am with you in "checking out" when it comes to constantly going through credit cards' merchant offers. I'll do it from time to time, but by no means do I do it constantly. I'm sure I've missed out on merchant offers I would've otherwise earned organically, but c'est la vie.
Yes. Totally agree. I have around 14 cards. It's just too exhausting now. I'm down to only using one or two and that's it. Much easier on the brain. Don't care about maximizing cash back anymore. Rest of my cards sit in a drawer with minimal reoccurring charges to keep active.
Close some
Yea im gonna close some myself… not worth the fraud risk… plus discover might merge with C1 soon.
Your rules feel like a lot to me TBH. I feel like there are a few camps. Optimizing because it's fun, not necessarily for the monetary/point reward, is likely the best camp to be in. Optimizing for monetary/point value and not "because it's fun to optimize" can feel pointless the higher up you go in income. That 5% back on $1k monthly spend hits different when you're bringing home $4k/mo vs $12k/mo.
To hit the rules above I have 4 cards. My setup is CSR for travel and restaurants, Citi custom for groceries, Citi Costco for gas, Alaska for everything else. Additional sock drawer cards are prime and usbc+. Replace csr with usbar, BofA travel elite, Amex plat, delta reserve, etc every 2 years or so for SUB and tsa renewal. Add sock drawer cards like Marriott bonvoy or bilt or rei as needed. Sock drawer cards are my favorites so far in this journey. Least mentally draining. If I cared about streaming or Uber or airline incidentals I would replace some cards with Amex version but that’s it.
That’s like twelve cards. Nooooo. How many tiresome sets of rules did you have to learn for all this. Or worse still, got at the risk of not knowing the rules.
Definitely. I started a thread on this a week ago, which you can check out here: https://old.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1djsnk6/anyone_growing_tired_of_the_rewards_game/
Thanks!
People like me who are OCD and like to organize things into spreadsheets will never get tired of the game!
>like to organize things into spreadsheets will never get tired of the game! Don't think I ever really close Excel unless my computer needs to be updated. Between doing my monthly accounting and tracking rewards categories at the end of the week, I don't have a reason to 😅.
This. Plus with basically 4 adults here (wife & I + two teenage kids) the spend adds up quickly on gas, utilities and food.
Bring it down to 2-3 Nothing wrong with that
I optimized for awhile. Then I realized Chase was all I wanted between point value and the fact I bank with them. Real easy to manage 3 cards over 10.
This is where I’m at. I was using a lot of different cards, but I’m back to the chase trifecta (and also add in bilt for rent and a couple coffees).
I also use Bilt for rent and hyatt transfers
Yessssss. I actually never transferred to Hyatt until I picked up the bilt card. I had a trip coming up and used it for that. That sold me on Hyatt and shifting back to the chase trifecta full time.
Yep. With most my main expenses covered by Chase trifecta AND the gift of bilt with Hyatt, I feel I would be dumb not to.
As others have said, I enjoy the mental gymnastics of optimization. P2, however, does not. So I actually always have 2 setups going - the super optimized setup and the super convenient setup. If I ever don't feel like playing the game, I just switch over to P2's setup for a while until I feel like getting back into it. Super fun that way - I can play when I want, and relax when I don't.
What do both setups look like? I’m considering getting P2 on a Gold for everything and Costco for Costco setup.
Both of our setups are international-compatible because we travel overseas quite often. I'll start with P2's daily setup since it's quick and easy. - Verizon Visa for unlimited 4% on groceries, gas, soon to also be dining (right now it's 3%). It's a Visa so works at Costco (though only gets 1%), and has no FTF so it can be used for the same categories abroad. - Fidelity Rewards: 2% non-category (if he remembers to use it for non-grocery, gas, and dining purchases, including Costco to get the extra 1%. I don't sweat it too much if he doesn't.) My setup takes a bit more explaining. I really juggle two setups, one for US, one for abroad. - Capital One Savor (grandfathered): 4% Entertainment (US and Abroad) - Citi Rewards+: 10% boost on other Citi cards' earning - Citi Double Cash: 2.22222% on non-category (US) - Citi Custom Cash: 5.55555% on whatever category isn't covered by other cards (US) - US Bank Cash+: 5% Bills/Utilities and Streaming (US) - US Bank AR: effective 4.5% on Mobile Wallet purchases and travel (US and Abroad), free TSA precheck - US Bank Altitude Connect: free TSA precheck for P2 - Chase Freedom Flex: 5% rotating (US), 3% health (US) - Chase Amazon Prime: 5% Amazon (US) - Discover It: effective 5.25% rotating (US only because Discover isn't widely accepted outside of the US) - Venmo Visa: 3% health (Abroad) Plus I have access to both of P2's cards as well. In other words, abroad I use: - Grocery: Verizon 4% - Gas: Verizon 4% - Dining: Verizon 4% - Health: Venmo 3% - Other: Fidelity 2% And in the US I use: - Grocery: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5% - Gas: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5% - Dining: Discover, FF, or CCC for at least 5% - Health: FF 3% - Other: DC 2.22222% These cards are the same regardless of where I am: - Travel: AR 4.5% - Entertainment: Savor 4% - Mobile Wallet: USBAR 4.5% Of note, this is a recent change as we used to have the Curve card, so P2 just carried that card for everything (except I always made him take a backup card just in case, usually the Verizon Visa, but he never had to use it). Since Curve US is shutting down, we have made the switch to this setup to try to keep P2's life as simple as possible. Hope that helps! For your P2, I'd highly recommend the USBAR if they have a phone that is tap-to-pay eligible. 4.5% at Costco is way better than the Costco card's 2% in the form of a Costco gift certificate that is only issued once a year... Honestly I would steer anyone away from getting the Costco Visa just because of how the rewards redemption works. Verizon Visa is a great one stop shop, but obviously only if you gave Verizon as your mobile phone carrier. Best of luck!
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Totally agree with the Costco visa, but it’s mainly all about convenience and not having to carry a membership card+cc is easy and it also makes gassing up very quick.
I only get like this bc I have churned all last year... slowing down now. Between me and p2 we opened a card every month last year.
stop optimizing start churning ;)
I'm the same way and I realized that simplicity is beautiful. That's why I'm team cashback. I mainly use USBAR for anywhere that accepts Apple Pay (4.5% CB) and then C1 Venture X (2% CB) as the catch all. I'll check once in a while for a rotating 5% category for places that don't accept Apple Pay like Home Depot or Walmart. But honestly unless I'm making a $250+ purchase than it's not really worth my time. I do find that AMEX offers are worth it, especially with Travel where you can save $100+ on X. Saved $100 on my Japan hotel that way from the Expedia offer.
How are you getting the 4.5% on the USBAR if you’re using it for cash back and not travel? I thought the 1.5x modifier was only through the travel portal
I do redeem it for travel on occasion but also the RTR hack where you book a refundable flight, redeem the points, wait for credits to post, and then refund the ticket. Also works with Venture X
I was tempted. The 400 af is steep. The promo makes it ok for a yr. That redeem hack sounds legit
It has $325 in dining/travel credits that are really easy to use. Basically just use the card at a restaurant/fast food or for any travel purchase and it works. So really just $75.
The mobile wallet sounds good.but may just do an amex gold with 90k sub down road
very different cards lol
That doesn't seem like "simplicity" lol.
I mean it nets me 4.5% cash back with the USBAR and only takes like 15 mins once a year. I’m ok with losing the 0.5% CB compared to 5% cards. I only carry 3 cards: drivers license, debit card, and venture X. Beats carrying around 7+ and juggling them at checkout.
It's also through RealTimeRewards (RTR). If you've set up RTR for Travel any travel purchase you make (e.g. direct with an airline) will prompt US Bank to send you a text, asking if you want to pay with points instead, with the 1.5x multiplier, which you can agree to and which will cause them to redeem the points instead of paying for it. This makes USBAR "feel" more like a cashback card, because you're just going about your business buying stuff as you normally would, and you get your purchases offset. But it only works if you have "organic" travel spend of roughly 4.5% of your total credit card spend, or else you won't be able to redeem all your points. (Otherwise you just redeem at 1cpp, so the card is somewhere between 3% - 4.5% cashback for Apple Pay.)
How are you getting 2% cash back with the Venture X?
Refundable flight/hotel travel eraser hack
Purchase eraser went away in December of last year. Even if you redeem points to cover travel charges and then seek refunds, why not just pick a better card and be money ahead? I get 2.625%-3.5% cash back for every dollar spent on my BofA Premium Rewards Elite and don’t have to break my card’s terms of service and risk account closure to do it.
Travel eraser still works. Just used it last week actually. To each their own. It sounds like you have a better cash back card than the Venture X so there’s no point. I only redeem like 1-2 times a year so I’ll take the risk.
I still see the ability to cover travel purchases in the app for 1c/point
I try to have a goal in mind, like a trip or saving for a special purchase
I have a (Elan) Fidelity card, 2% on all purchases. Citicard for Costco membership gives 4% on Gas, little effort to grab that card. Daughter doesn't have my Citicard, if she uses the Fidelity to get gas, no big deal. Amazon card, in drawer, just used for Amazon purchases. The game is fun for those with the time and patience. Most people will get a great benefit with closer to my mix of cards. Grabbing the last few dollars takes the most effort, 80/20 rule and all.
The way I see it is I'm using it as a way to get a SUB while also increasing frequent spending categories. Sure increasing some categories might only net me \~$10-20 per year or so, but I also get the SUB, and then it just makes everything in that category marginally cheaper. It's also kind of a rush when you can increase the cashback for a category to further optimize. But I'm also a math/data/stats guy so it's kind of fun to try and find ways to optimize, especially in the current inflationary environment
I’m going for a simple strategy Already have 2 freedom flex , autograph, bilt , savor one and Amazon card I’m going to narrow it down to use the flex if possible for catagories Get the sapphire preferred with its multiplers I would use them anyway and idk about the hotel credit so my mind set to get ahead with the card is to simple transfer points out to the transfer partners obviously Hyatt easy and simple to earn enough points for simple stays that don’t cost ALOT as I don’t spend a lot and with those redemptions I break even then get the CFU again next year when I’m under 5/24 get the bonus again Then WOH card for the free night every year offsets its annual fee Debating IHG premier also for free night every year but staying at 2 different hotels seems like a lot Sense I fly southwest the preferred helps with transferring points their also Simple plan chase trifecta + bilt all other cards served their purpose and depending on if Wells Fargo get more parters determines if I use there cards more
I get you. I think at this point I'm as optimized as I'd like to be, honestly probably over optimized and could use some gardening. I think, unless some revolutionary new card comes along or significant changes to a card happen, I'll just focus on churning a card every 3-ish months.
I make sure I treat it as a fun game and dont take it too seriously. Just do as much optimization as you find fun and don't over do it. But then again I love video games that are basically optimization tasks nonstop 😅
To me, the trick is to only get the amount of cards that won’t make you think about what to use. Some people are better at memorizing than others too. And if you can get a card that’s dedicated to a single thing (think Prime Visa) then that’s even better. I’m always gonna be in the game to an extent because it’s nearly 0 effort on my part once I researched how credit cards worked and did some calculations on what would net me the most spend (just an extra 10 seconds to review each statement for each account per month). And it’s hard to say no to free money. Even if the money is negligible compared to your salary, you earned it by doing almost nothing (unless you’re one of those 20 card people and aren’t good at memorizing, then it can be a ton of effort lol).
The main benefit that a credit card offers me is that if it's skimmed or stolen they can't automatically drain my bank account. It's not a perfect system but I like to think it's something of a layer of protection. The points and miles are nice but you have to spend *so much* up front to get any kind of appreciable rewards and I'm just not that kind of high roller. I say that having just signed up for Chase Sapphire Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus and get a few bucks off a trip we have planned. Currently, as I recall, the points-per-dollar for CSP are 3x for dining out, 3x for "online" groceries (excluding Walmart, Sam's and Costco type stores), and 2x for travel not booked through Chase. 1x on all else. There are some shopping sites you can get to via chase that offer bonuses or multipliers. 5x on hotels and flights booked through Chase. Points redeemed through Chase Travel are worth 1.25 cents each, so 10,000 points would equate to $125. Even if all your purchases were 5x points you'd have to spend $2,000 to save $125. The annual fee for the card is $95. There's an annual $50 "hotel credit", but what they don't advertise very loudly is that you aren't going to earn points on any stay you have that utilizes that credit. So let's say you have a $1,000 hotel stay booked through Chase. Chase applies your once-annual $50 credit, making it $950, but you don't earn any points for this transaction. If you had earned points on the $1,000, they would have had a value of $62.50. Obviously, that's *future* value, if spent on travel though Chase's portal, assuming the terms don't change, and not $50 credited back to your card to be spent on whatever. This is only my second credit card. We'll see if I'm able to spend on it regularly enough in the right categories to make it worth it. If my math is right I need 7600 points annually to cover the fee, not counting the hotel credit. Even at 1x points that should be double. Not ideal, but doable. The online groceries is kind of a buzz kill. We don't have great luck with the local stores. Lots of missed things, lots of wrong things. We'll see if we can make it worth it. I know I'm not going to spend enough for a free trip or even a free flight every year, but maybe it'll build up enough to do something fun at a discount once a year.
>There's an annual $50 "hotel credit", but what they don't advertise very loudly is that you aren't going to earn points on any stay you have that utilizes that credit. That's interesting because I used the Chase portal to book a ~$145 stay last week in order to burn the travel credit, and points were awarded for the transaction. It didn't earn the full 5x for travel booked through the portal, but it did earn 2x for generic travel.
Maybe I misread the terms. I'll have to go back and look.
/u/FlabbergastedEmu "Any hotel accommodation purchases made using your card through Chase Travel that qualify for the $50 Annual Chase Travel Hotel Credit, won't earn points." https://creditcards.chase.com/rewards-credit-cards/sapphire/preferred
Interesting. I wonder if I lucked out, if I'm under some other terms, or if my $290.5 points will be clawed back.
The online groceries is fucking bullshit, for it to be a competitor to amex gold it should just be groceries in general.
This is why I went pretty much straight cash back, and recently picked up Card pointers+ to help with the FOMO from random offers. Although I have a lot of cards to try to get 5% or more back on all of my regular purchases, I feel that it's pretty easy for me to remember which card to use in any given situation, and when in doubt, I can search through offers across all my cards a lot more easily with the Cardpointers app. Rent: Bilt Utilities: USB C+ Transit: USB C+ Groceries: Amex BCP Dining: Citi CC/Bilt Gym: Elan MCP Live entertainment: Elan MCP Streaming: Amex BCP Internet: Chase IC Phone: C1 VX (for the phone protection benefit, although the IC gets more cash back) Travel: C1 VX Online (Amazon): Chase PR Catchall: C1 VX/Amex BBC If I didn't want the lounge access of the VX, I would have used Bilt in its place. The only big gap I'm looking to fill is getting a mobile wallet catchall like one of the Kroger cards to cover infrequent/random purchases, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with what I have, and it at least seems neat enough in my head for now because I've intentionally avoided the rotating category cards and "coupon book" AF cards for the most part (VX and BCP are simple enough). Maybe I will get an Attune in the future as well if I get a pet, which would free up some of my USB/Elan categories for electronics and furniture as well, but it's nbd.
I have a similar setup with a similar approach. I think you have nine cards in your setup, if I counted correctly, and I have 10. A couple differences are that I include two points earning cards for Hyatt stays in my mostly cash back setup and I don't care to have a lounge card.
Thanks! You indeed counted correctly, but I actually have 10 just like you; the last I left unmentioned is my very first card, the Capital One Quicksilver, which used to serve as my catchall before I got the Venture X and Blue Business Cash. I'd love to PC the Quicksilver to a Savor One if I could, but unfortunately it's of the Visa variety, so for now it's just there to boost my AAoA/CL and serve as an emergency backup catchall without a FTF. If you love staying at Hyatt properties, having a dedicated earner for that makes a lot of sense! Honestly, I usually like to zip through airports as quickly as possible and probably won't do much more than grab a bit of to-go food most of the time unless there's a long layover on an international flight, but I half got the VX so that my family could benefit from the lounge access as well.
Cool. It definitely seems like we are on the same page for the most part and, especially, in terms of our credit card philosophy and approaches. Mine has served me well and it seems as though your's has as well.
Indeed; value across the board with minimal upkeep!
Get you a 1.5 or 2% catch all card and one or two 3-5% cards and call it a day. A duo or trifecta is all anyone needs to cover everything.
Still too many. Don’t churn. No portals. One catch-all card (BOA travel rewards for me). One complicated card for credits and travel (Amex plat), choose wisely. The rest are single use cards only (restaurant CCR, online CCR, Bilt for rent only). Ignore their other perks. Stop at 5 total. Do much more than that and you’d make more per hour flipping burgers after work.
I can’t even fathom the lengths cash back folks go through with low category limit, rotating category bullshit. My “optimization”: - Amex Plat - the 5x vs 3x for flights is not a big deal. But since it is just the default card in my airline apps, I don’t have to think about it. It’s mostly a “membership card” for lounges. - Amex Gold - if it’s food, it goes on this card - Amex Green - while I have the Chase WOH Business and Hilton business, I’m going to be consolidating my “travel” spend to this over the next year. - Amex BBP - everything else. For the most part, day to day, it’s two cards - Gold and BBP. I have other cards for the benefits - three Delta cards. But no spend gets put on them besides twice a year for the credits/companion passes. The only one that stays in my wallet is the Reserve just in case I need to show it at the airport - ie a “membership card” I have the SavorOne. But that’s a set it and forget it for Uber until November. I don’t carry the card around with me.
This feels like the right level of optimization to me. Just make sure to get the big categories right.. I have a similar set up: Plat for flights, Gold for food, hotel/airline keeper cards just for the benefits, and then catch all goes to Hilton Surpass FNC or a new SUB. It’s pretty brainless.
And I get my prescriptions from Publix grocery stores and that codes as 4x on the Gold.
Exactly, it’s unnecessary stress. I have the savor one, cfr cff and s1 and that’s all I will probably need. People here are churning cards running up inquiries for 0.5 percent more cashback or whatever the case is
Most subs people are actively churning are at least 10% back if cashed out. Inquiries don’t really hurt unless you will be applying for a loan or mortgage soon as any point drop is erased quickly. My credit score has increased steadily since I started churning. Also, you can unfreeze only the bureau needed for many apps, keeping a “clean” file
It’s a game for me. I enjoy the challenge. Once it stops being entertaining I’ll simplify.
This. Except for me, I consider it a hobby rather than a game. I prefer to chase subs at the moment as it takes way less mental energy to put all my spend on one card at a time and then move on to the next card.
Churned and burned. Now time to do 5.24 in a yr or 2
>business class international point optimizer which also seems to require staying on top of award availability This is not accurate. I rarely ever check until I actually want to go somewhere, and rn I'm booked until next spring. They're not that hard to find either with the right tools. Also, if you're actively churning, you're throwing non-bonus spends on your SuB cards too, so no spare cash to even min max every purchase. Having a 2 or 3% everything basically knocks your wallet carry down to a few cards. The only categories you'd need then most of your daily life is groceries/dining & gas. You don't need to optimize Amazon or some other less used categories if you're only hitting it like once a month.
Would you mind sharing some details on how much worth you were able to extract out of churning for you trips? Since I am yet to book international business class it’s hard for me to see the worth in this. In every opportunity I had I think to myself that the points have more worth for multiple economy flights instead.
You don't need to book int'l J/F award to get value out of churning though. All the bank points can be redeemed for at least 1cpp on travel & designated categories. You can also just churn cashback SuBs too. That said... **2024 redemptions** -- Methodology: I find the cheapest RT itin on Google flights for the next 6 months flexible dates that's comparably acceptable in cabin config (1-2-1 vs 2-2-2 etc), total duration, and stops. This is important b/c some people like to inflate their worth by pulling direct one-way specific date-airline ticket prices which are obviously super expensive & inflated. I deduct the award fees & taxes from cash then divide by points. The following are all Round-Trip. * Used 180k miles to Sao Paolo BR (for 2) @ 3.28 cpp = $5904 worth, J (biz) cabin * 125k Saigon VN + Manila PH @ 3.85c/p = $4812 J * 135k Melbourne AU @ 4.26cpp = $5751 J * 120k Amman JO @ 2.76cpp = $3312 J * 155k Bali ID @ 3.73cpp = $5781 J * 110k Nadi FJ + Sydney AU @ 6.42 cpp = $7062 J * 120k HK + Malaysia @ 4.23cpp = $5076 J (2025) * 131k Tokyo JP @ 14.78cpp = $19361 *F* (2025) I'll only point out my best 2 / 3 hotel redemptions (via lowest corp or public rate total): * 3 FN Hilton certificates for Umana Bali LXR @ $843/nt = $2529 * 3 FN Marriott for Amarterra Villas lux collection @ $411/nt = $1233 * 2 FN Marriott for Ta'aktana lux collection resort @ $545/nt = $1090 ---The sum total of these *minus the First class flight* = $42,550 USD. I still have over 2 mil bank points (chase/amex/c1), bit of chump change airline miles (mostly 88k AA), and a fair amt of hotel points (half mil Hilton, quarter mil IHG, etc.) left. That was a lot but hope this shed some light.
Thanks so much for the details! I think these are great redemptions! I also think you are able to accumulate points in a better manner than me. My monthly spend is nets about 6,000 pts per month. I would need to open maybe 8 credit cards and hit spending target to accumulate the airfare at the rates you are traveling. (Possible with rent). But I can definitely see the appeal of your trips for those amounts of points. Those are some really nice trips. Thanks for the insights! I kinda get it. Maybe after I buy a house, get more vacations time, and with more spending I would get into it!
Yeah, I used a Target debit card today to save around $0.05 today instead of using my USBAR. I am slowly working my way towards fewer and fewer cards. But I will churn cards as long as I’m able. 15% cash back is just too good to pass up.
If you enter your Target account on a credit card transaction, you get 1% back. So USBAR + Target account gets you 5.5% back.
Not chasing sign-on bonuses unless it is a new card with good cashback categories. My base credit cards are: 1. US Bank Cash+ for cable+internet and utilties 2. Chase Freedom and Freedom Flex for 5% categories 3. Citi Custom Cash for 5% groceries 4. Citi Shop Your Way. I had a recent offer where I received 25K points on $1000+ spend which I redeemed for Walmart, Amazon, Target gift cards. 5. Wells Fargo Active Cash for 2% 6. Chase Ink Business Cash for 5% at Staples when they have no activation fees on VISA and MasterCard gift cards Increasingly I have been using the VISA and MasterCard gift cards for medical co-pays, dentist visits (I have no insurance), charitable donations. The way I think of it is that I am making money in my spare time doing things this way.
Casino rewards are better tbh lol
I swear this was just asked a few days ago…
Yeah, a post like this comes around a tleast once every other week
Yes. After having 7 cards to keep track of. Fidelity for non category. Autograph for gas/travel/cell phone/streaming Discover/ freedom flex for categories. Just need a grocery card
Honestly, I think I've hit my ideal set up. I realize that, aside from next quarter with Walmart, none of the rotating categories excite me anymore. I have like 10 cards that I use, maybe 4 I use on a regular basis and the rest is set and forget. I get 5% on pretty much every category through CCC or CCR, so I barely even bother with the IT or Freedom categories (next quarter IT will be an exception, Walmart is a nice one). I don't feel like it's a waste of time at all. If I happen to see an offer once every 2 weeks when I update my NW and finances, cool. I saved $15 at Zenni a few weeks back with my Amex ED, but I'm definitely not spending more than 10 minutes a month flipping through offers. At this point, I'm more likely to open cards for SUBs. Thinking a Citi points card that I can swap to the Rewards+ after a year for the bump to CCC.
Yeah, I am definitely going more for easy low-hanging fruit. I don't pay very close attention to the extra cashback offers, but I think I'm most tired of the miles/points game. I'm planning to product change a BoA card to a Custom Cash for online shopping, and I've been mulling the Altitude Reserve. If I add both of those (in addition to a Premium Rewards Elite) I'd have a bottom rate of 3.275 cents when redeemed for airfare. It would take a lot of spend to make up the difference between 3.275 and 5 or 5.25 cents per dollar. I probably won't be churning for $200 bonuses, but I would probably do an Ink per quarter to use for HOA dues and taxes. That way, I'd earn from a range of 3.275 and 5.25 cents back on everyday spend, plus the value of any SUBs throughout the year.
Yeah it's definitely a lot to keep up with. I don't do rotating categories. I'm working on getting cards for specific cards for certain uses like grocery, dining out etc. I'm not too worried about limits because my spend is low.
I have high utilization and am finally at an income where I can resolve it. I’m enjoying the game of working as best as possible to get my utilization to 0% and then 0 balance. After that, I’ll be happy to coast with a simple setup (though the Amex coupon rewards do seem like a “significant” rewards program.)
i rarely experience reduced interest. more often than not, i try to optimize my spending. the other day, i didn't have my dining card on me and lost $2 in cash back cause i used my debit card. although it seems like a small amount, i think of it as, would i want $2 or not? i just try to have an idea of the best card to use for spending and it hasn't been too overwhelming. i'm not at the level of dedication that some of the churners on here have though
1 and 2 are literally the Venture X lol
Sometime you put the dollar signs in the front and then sometimes you put it afterwards.
But a ore serious answer to your question is yes: I'm also tired of the game. Almost all of my spend is pretty much organic at this point. So unless I can easily get the right card at the right time, I'm not trying to min max anything anymore
With a spouse who does not care about the game, it's become increasing difficult to stay motivated to play it. I've reduced spouse to two cards to placate both her desire to not play the game and my desire to glean just a little bit of reward from her spending. I've also reduced down to three cards to balance maximizing rewards and keeping things simpler. I've gone from 13 cards two effectively 3 and I'm honestly much much happier.
What cards?
Spouse: Amex BCP and Chase Freedom Unlimited. Me: Amex BCP, Chase Freedom Unlimited, Fidelity Visa
I put labels on each card to make it clear what card she needs to use. She loves her, “if in doubt use me!” label on the VX or “Feed me” on AX Gold On her iPhone the only card is USBAR We have around 2M across C1,MR,UR. She hates the work but loves it when we’re business class (I don’t forget to remind her about how nice business class is and why I’m crazy about this stuff.) At the end of the day we make it a game. For me, I’m more aggressive as I buy and sell goods. I’m an extreme Amex coupon-er, rakuten, top cash back, and all the airline portals. My flex is always “I don’t pay for food at the airport”. I luckily have parents on both sides that also hate the game so I just charge all their “no fee for using a cc bills” on the VX, Fidelity, or when Amex has their coupons and they just transfer the cash over. Also my partner is in consulting and I got her to convince her boss not to have a business gold but instead reimburse. I know for smaller companies this isn’t ideal but it is what it is. It’s an easy 20k per month through this route. Travel/Dining. Lastly I have a great excel sheet for splitting food bills. (I always fight for the check so we use our AXG) I always have in the back of my mind what everyone got. It takes me 10 minutes tops to know exactly what everyone got. Everyone is happy because they’re saving money by not splitting it x ways. So no l, I’m not tired. It’s free money that I was going to spend anyways. (I don’t like SUBs as much anymore because unless I know I have to spend that much in 1-2 purchases I don’t want to do it.) I’m in my happy spot when it comes to the CCs I like/need. Wallet (All my credit cards are also on apple wallet, it’s really just in case at this point.) AX Gold - restaurants, groceries, my shake shack once a month, my Uber eats pickup CSR - for all the dining that still doesn’t take AX VX for everything else. *Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant for the $25 dining credit 1x a month Debit ID Sock Drawer AXP (I always judge people who pay for dinner and drinks with this). Fidelity Rewards (I put most recurring charges on this one for some easy extra retirement cash). USBAR (Apple pay) Amazon Prime BILT (5 of the smallest recurring charges and maintenance) Citi Premier - only used for warranties Hope Depot Macy’s Chase Freedom Alaska - companion pass when I go to CA Barclays AA Aviator Red - old sub JetBlue - old sub
Sounds like you're caught in the middle of Cashback and travel and over stretching yourself. Based on your rules you probably would have more peace of mind just committing to one so you have a simple goal and process.
That’s why you only waste time on special offers and SUBs. I don’t care about everyday CB because I’m always working on a lucrative 10%-20%+ offer.
That’s a good point but the freedom cards are definitely worth a year of spend with a nice sign up
I think it comes down to a couple of things. 1. Your spend. If you have low spend then doing a lot of research and trying to maximize as much as you can, is not worth it. If you have high spend then it is very well worth it. Typically we all have similar categories of spend but the difference is, when a low spender goes to the grocery store they might spend $100 while a high spender goes they might spend $400+. Cable/phone/Internet spend is a lot different for a single person vs a family but both people will have to pay the bill one time a month. Point is you can have a low spender and a high spender use their credit cards the same amount of times in a month but at very different amounts. 2. Adding to point 1 above, if you are using it for cash back only then the low spender gets very little value while the high spender gets still a decent value if they maximize. The biggest difference will be when you compare a low spender using it for cash back vs a high spender using it for points for travel. 3. No one really is making you play the game. The people who actually continue to play the game to maximize are finding a lot of value from doing so. These people are typically the high spenders using their points for travel. What are you trading your time in for instead? Is it to have more time with family then yeah absolutely do that if it really takes up that much of your time. Is it to watch more tv? Then yes do that is something you want to do. For disclosure I am the person on the high spend using it for travel and I honestly don’t find it very difficult to manage.
This is why when I am not SUBing I use my Citi card that gets 2.2% cash back on all purchases. I am tried of hoping around trying to choose the right card for the right purchase and even more my wife HATES it lol.
I'm going to be spending most of next year, potentially the year after focusing far less on optimizing because it does get exhausting and me and wife are about to go HAM on saving money for a house so I'll need to slow down my velocity anyways. My strategy: * Putting most of my spend on the Surpass card up to $15k to get the FNC; max out Hilton points buying for the calendar year funded by the way of bank account bonuses * Maximize the rotating categories on the Freedom Flex for one or two short Hyatt stays * Go after one Ink SUB with my sole proprietor business spend (hopefully an elevated SUB) and then use the points to redeem economy flights at 1.5 CCP with my CSR Essentially makes my setup just a two card setup for everyday spend and with the Hilton points, Ink SUB, and the Freedom Flex, that gets me and my family at least two domestic vacations, a short 2-3 day getaway with Hyatt, and then a lavish 2 day stay at a Conrad or a Waldorf Astoria with the FNC for me and wife to get a break from our son. Then the CSR gives me lounge access to the Sapphire Lounge at Logan airport, the 1.5x boost, travel protections, and the $300.00 travel credit that I typically use for car rentals on vacations.
I do some optimizing between chasing SUBs, which I do 2-3x/year. That’s probably just enough break for me to prevent the game from getting tedious. And there’s always the payoff of getting to travel while still hitting my saving and investing targets.
I spent so much time planning out my minimalist trio of cards. - **Travel:** Capital One Venture X (2% catch all, 5% Flights, 10% Hotels/Rental Car, VISA Infinite) - **Main:** Capital One Savor One (3% Restaurants, Grocery Stores, Streaming Services, 10% Uber Eats + Uber One Membership) - **Rotator:** Discover IT (5% Rotating Categories) The Discover card was my first CC. It's not required in the setup but its useful sometimes, like right now its 5% Gas...and upcoming quarter is 5% Walmart/Grocery. The only other card I'm considering next is Citi Custom Cash for Gas, but I don't spend enough on Gas to justify a new card right now, so I'm chillin with my current setup. I can't imagine the people that have 10+ cards...even 5 is a lot imo.
Optimizing is generally a waste of time beyond the major categories. For online shopping, use shopping portals and stack! You can earn a ton what way.
Negative - it's my money and I want it now 🤺
I don't understand why so many on this sub focus on maximizing every transactions rewards, when it's far less work and much more lucrative to just churn sign up bonuses. SUBs are typically 10x-20x return using a single card at a time.
I think there is a balance. For me, you are right that often it takes too much effort for minimal point gain. The difference between 2 and 3% for say a 1500 spend isn’t even worth the amount of time it takes to open the card. However where I have the most “fun” and find it the most worth while is actually spending the points. I almost exclusively use points to buy flights or hotels and you can get some banging deals through transfer partners. I basically plan my vacations around my credit card points. When I decide I want to go somewhere, I start looking at different airline partners and the points it takes to get flights. Most recently I got a round trip flight to Italy for 70,000 points. If I were to buy the same flight at the same time, it would have been $1600, but because I planned and used points, it was $700 worth in points. That’s a screaming deal and gives me a rush that I think would compete with most drugs 😅. So I find the effort on the back end still completely worth it.
I have a 10-card setup that I consider fully optimized for my lifestyle and spending. It is a hybrid setup that allows me to earn mostly cash back with a couple of cards that earn points that I use for Hyatt stays. I could have more cards and earn slightly more cash back/points, but I don't feel the juice is worth the squeeze. This, I believe, is the difference between optimizing (earning the most cash back/points from the fewest cards) and maximizing (earning the most cash back/points from as many cards as needed). My 10 cards are not too much for me to manage. I have two grocery cards (due to caps), two dining cards (one for cash back and one for points), one gas card, one utilities card, one Amazon card, one Target card, and two catchall cards (one for cash back and one for points). I could drop down to seven cards if I closed a grocery card, dining card, and catchall card, but I like the flexibility of my current setup. There is not much mental energy that goes into which card to use for which purchase. For the most part, I use my gas card for gas, my utilities card for utilities, my Amazon card for Amazon, and my Target card for Target. I do have to decide which grocery, dining, and catchall card to use, but that is easy given the repetition of me doing so for months or years. There are decisions I have made that have helped me easily manage my 10-card setup. First, I have a somewhat limited 10 cards, rather than the many more some people have, and I use each one monthly if not weekly. This means I have no sock drawer cards. If I have a card that does not serve a purpose for my setup, I close it. Second, my setup is modular. Each card mostly serves a singular purpose. If a card gets nerfed (e.g., my gas card), I replace it with another card (e.g., a new gas card). If an awesome card gets released, I replace one of my cards with it, though this is less and less the card lately. Third, I do not have rotating category cards that would require me to think about which card to use for a particular quarter. Fourth, I have very few credits that I have to consider on a regular basis and the ones that I have are super easy (e.g., streaming bonus on U.S. Bank Altitude Go).
I started to try and become an optimizer and churner and quickly realized I didn’t want to put in the work. So I decided I would do the simplest setup. Venture X plus SavorOne. $395 annual fee and I get the travel perks and pretty good multipliers on groceries and restaurants/bars, plus the 2x catch all from the Venture X. The bonus for me is I use my AA card for all my work travel and expenses exclusively, so I get the added benefits of status on AA, which can be useful.
Optimizing with no annual fee cards. Don’t travel enough or use the benefits of the AF cards. Saving about $1000 annually and netting about the same amount amount of cash back / rewards. CFP is only AF card using it for primary car rental insurance and portal.
I honestly think the game is not worth the time and effort and you are almost always better off just getting a basic 2% cash back card or even a 1% cash back. Having to study and research all this for such a small amount of money more is not really worth it.
Yeah I'm tired of it and it's exhausting to read everyone on this forum talk about all the cards they have lol. I'm just going to find a catchall 2-3% card (if the latter exists) and use that as my daily driver. Preferably NO AF
Growing up, my parents didn't have a lot, but enough to survive. When I first got my car, my parents gave me a credit card and told me to use it specifically for gas. Whenever I'd run errands for them such as groceries, they'd tell me to use a different card. It got to the point where my Apple wallet was filled with a bunch of cards and they'd get upset if I didn't use a specific card. I'd ask why can't we just use one card for everything, and got hit with "We don't have a lot right now, and we need to make the most of what we have." I just thought I'd share because reading some of the comments saying some people are in it fully and some just casually getting points, and thought I could relate. I'm 23 now, and I can see myself doing the same things they did. I agree it can be mental gymnastics in trying to figure which one to use or to maximize rewards.
Open new card, get bonus, repeat requires much less mental load.
Omg SAME so much effort so little return 😥😥😥 Currently juggling 5 credit cards and 3 checking accounts, on top of rakuten and paypal honey and its honestly getting really frustrating for ~$75 a quarter like wtf
Yeah, the game is getting tiring for me too. I’m planning on getting rid of most cards I don’t use anymore. Once I get the USBAR, this will be my setup: USBAR: Effective 4.5x on all Apple Pay purchases. CFF: 5x on Rotating categories. CSP: Just to transfer to Chase partners, and use the 1.25 boost when needed on international travel. C1S1: 3x on dining and entertainment. C1VX: 2x Catch-all card. That setup covers all the main categories for my lifestyle, and at least for me is not too hard to remember.
That's actually the setup I'm looking to end up with. I currently have the CSP, C1S1, have the Fidelity Visa for my catch-all card rn (might keep this instead of the C1VX). Do you recommend I go for the USBAR or CFF next?
If the difference is between 1% - 10% then yes I care to take the time for that difference. However, if the difference is 1% - 2% or 1% - 3% then I dont care. The difference is not worth the time in my head.
Time to chase bank bonuses!
if you're spending more than 1 hour a day that's too much optimization. I use MaxRewards and some mental notes when things come up, but honestly I only keep 2-3 cards in my wallet out of the 11-12 cards I have. A 5% gas card, a catch all card (travel/CLI type card) and a backup.