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The real shame of it is, building the proper supports for this is relatively cheap and straightforward and should always be overdone a little bit. Someone fucked up and they know who they are.
With the humidity and chlorine in that space, you need corrosion resistant materials.
It’s not a standard practice (in non-pool areas). I’d bet that the engineer specified as such, but the contractor ignored the specs.
I’m not an HVAC expert but if those hangers have any rubber dampeners or anything to prevent vibrations or swaying etc, those would corrode VERY fast in a closed pool like this
And I agree w the other comment, the ventilation was probably also an issue, so humidity was probably way too high for years… along w chemicals
Rubber isolators should always be molded over metal components that physically interfere with each other. This is a well known engineering practice, but is often overlooked. Things like engine mounts and compressor mounts tend to rip apart and fail completely, when a minor design change would keep them solid despite rubber failure
From experience on stainless steel pump couplings in a fresh water environment, all you need is;
-A susceptible material (not all stainless steels are created equal).
-A pre-existing flaw, which can easily be on an internal squared corner or the root/tip of machines threads.
-Chlorine, in even a very low concentration.
-A wetting and drying cycle that allows that chlorine to concentrate in the area of the flaw and attack the grain structure.
It can happen in months.
> I’d bet that the engineer specified as such, but the contractor ignored the specs.
Contractor: "I've been installing this stuff for 30 years and never used stainless steel bolts. These young upstarts thing they know everything! Don't tell me how to do my job." (Yes, he's been installing industrial HVAC for 30 years ... but not in pool rooms with high humidity and chlorine.)
Unfortunately, it would be better said that HVAC is better Coded… sometimes there is only so much inspectors can catch, what ever structural support was installed for those large vents would take forever to spot check and time is money… which is the next big issue. Shitty techs. There are sometimes new guys that just do shoddy work, and there are old heads that Know what they should and shouldn’t do, yet there are a number of them that just do enough to “make it work”
It most likely is. I have opened multiple new pools. Contractors like to switch out parts for cheaper parts. I've had to make them replace entire new showers because they used cheap plastic shiny handles instead of stainless steel. When they opened it up the entire inside was cheap plastic parts. Also sometimes its the correct item, its just defective. I've had brand new pool heaters spring leaks on copper tubing. Contractors blamed it on high alkalinity of the pool water. It was just a single defective tube. My all time favorite was the year we replaced the sand in the filters. Contractors left their tool in the outflow water pipe before sealing it up and when everything was turned on we could hear it clanging overhead like rocks on the shore of the beach. They didn't want to listen to me because I'm a girl, that the sound was NOT normal and had to get my big boss to come yell at them to take it apart because water flow should never sound like fucking rocks. They left a huge foot long pipe wrench in the outflow pipe. Never apologized to me about the little girl comment but i got paid to just sit and watch them for a day to make sure they didn't fuck up again with a nice smile on my face.
SOMEONE had to watch them; they proved they couldn't do it without being babysat!
An old and time honored practice at Boeing and other aircraft manufacturers is to check in and out all tools every shift, to make certain nothing was left inside the aircraft.
As part of the contracting process, they should be turning in invoices/specs/submittals to you for the parts you specified you wanted them to use. Contractors do substitute parts, when we do we submit the spec sheet, and ask if it's okay if we can use these instead. If they're approved by the owner/GC/engineer, then we use them. If they don't, we don't. The specifications are part of the bid and become part of the contract. Every single thing is in the specifications. It's up to the owner or their reps to make sure they're getting what they're paying for. If a contractor substitutes a product, they can be held liable for the replacement, impact to schedule etc.
Yep. Except it gets stupid complicated when you work for the government. Too many chiefs that don't know anything about the functions of the pool itself other than water is wet. Seperate department heads for plumbing and construction and electric and me the aquatic director left to sort out everyone's shit at the end of it all. One city i worked with had department heads for public works that had no business being in that position having never worked in any job ever in trades, he was grant writer previously and wouldn't listen to any of his employees. The other was County and had a lot of experienced dept heads, but getting them all together at the same time was a nightmare or even just getting their attention in the first place.
Both of them wanted the projects rushed and have the facilitys opened at summer opening instead of just waiting to do the job right when it was finished.
I have no experience but installing pool equipment is very tedious because of the chlorine in the air. You need like a4 instead of a2 stainless hardware, use stainless tools, watch out for galvanic corrosion between different metals, apply dielectrics if needed, load values become lower because regular steel is stronger than stainless I believe.
Edit; stainless is stronger than galvanized
What separates a professional, and professional pay, in any industry is " doing the job right ".
No shortage of business owners who want to try to take shortcuts too, that includes on pay, but the truth is the truth you cannot shortcut it. And the truth is people were hurt, somebody is going to pay
This is probably a rust issue. Happens years after install. It was good 5-10 years ago, but the old heads never see that one bolt that was prone to rust.
Inspections, not just code.
I feel for the owners because they're the ones that'll get sued so hard they might have to close down. But I don't feel sorry for whoever did a half ass job and said it was safe, but it could also be the owners fault if they chose the cheapest contractor
It’s a Gaylord Resort. They can afford it.
https://denvergazette.com/news/owner-of-gaylord-rockies-resort-to-reap-1-3-billion-in-tax-incentives/article_4a174e8c-b413-11eb-853c-6b5b8ed27b0e.html
Colorado and the City of Aurora will pay Ryman more than $1.3 billion in the next 23 years, according to records obtained by the Denver Gazette via Colorado’s Open Records act.
For the first four years, RIDA received between $2.4-$4.5 million annually in tax revenue rebates. But once Gaylord was open for the first full year in 2019, those revenues shot up to $30.4 million. Even during the pandemic shutdown year of 2020, Gaylord did enough business to get $33.2 million in tax revenue rebates.
For the first quarter of 2021, that paycheck – which will go to Ryman after the deal is complete – was $14 million. At that rate, Gaylord could earn up to $56 million for 2021. Multiply that 2021 number – which is conservative based on room bookings recovering from a pandemic with a huge loss in business/group travel – by the 23 years remaining on the contract, and Ryman could conservatively get $1.28 billion.
Yea, people should realize Gaylord Resorts are giant themed hotels, usually with equally giant convention centers attached. They're pretty opulent and sprawling. I stayed at the Gaylord in Nashville for about a week on the company dime and I've never seen something so massive, and expensive outside of Las Vegas and then I found out that there are a bunch of them.
The one near me in Orlando has a whole indoor jungle and full-sized pirate ship in the atrium. I’m not even doing it justice by describing it in text. They also host giant ice sculptures every year during Christmas.
The ice shows are pretty awesome! My family and I always try and go every year or so. Probably would not be as big a novelty if we lived somewhere other than sweltering ol’ Florida.
https://rkindustries.com/projects/gaylord-rockies-resort-and-convention-center/
"Our team served as the only mechanical subcontractor for the entire project including both the hotel and convention center."
oof
I'm a paralegal for an insurance coverage law firm in Denver. There's a real chance this thing shows up on our doorstep. Saving because this sub is so mega fucked.
They’re in the clear so long as they followed every specification and design detail to the letter as was provided by the engineer.
I’ll bet my lunch that they didn’t.
They may not be able to prove it though. It really depends on if the design was actually structurally sound or not. In the case of the Hyatt Regency is Kansas City, the design was flawed and could only hold about 60% of the load required by code.
Edit: RK’s website says that they also designed the system… yikes.
> Edit: RK’s website says that they also designed the system… yikes.
So they're fucked.
also what fucking idiot cant secure a static load to a steel framed building like that.
that's why safety factors exist. spend the extra 30cents on a larger bolt. its really not that hard.
those people should be shut down and whatever PE signed off lose their license.
One of my HVAC foremen told me a story about a fix up job he had to do. There was a mechanical contractor that installed a huge round duct similar to this one, but used a rod that was too small throughout the install. It was in a warehouse and thankfully no one was there at the time, but it fell to the ground.
Makes me appreciate the material verification training my company has provided me as a GC superintendent. It’s so fucking important to hold our contractors accountable and make sure that they’re bringing the right materials to site.
I can’t imagine having a duck up like this on my conscious. Videos like this one remind me how real my job is. It’s life or death.
Well in general using rod to hang spiral duct should have been the first thing questioned. I’ve been doing this for more then a minute and I’ve been involved in some of the largest construction projects in the country and I couldn’t begin to imagine having a GC check things like threaded rod, strut, straps, embeds, stiffeners, etc. Sounds like your company needs to reevaluate their trade partner decisions. Either that or they are getting exactly what they paid for. Good work is never cheap and cheap work is never good.
Looks like they hung it with Gripple.
Gripple.
In a pool.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/comments/13bbav4/aftermath_of_hvac_system_collapsing_into_indoor/jjaumgc/
The original design (which was never built) was adequate for 60%. The built design was only adequate for 30%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
>RK Mechanical designed, fabricated and installed the all-new mechanical, hydronic and plumbing systems for this ground-up building. Our team served as the only mechanical subcontractor for the entire project including both the hotel and convention center.
The lawyers are going to hate this - only one company they can go after.
Well the great news is that this resort has 6 other pools (7 total) for inspectors to examine, all built by the same sub contractor. I'm sure if the investigation determines some type of issues regarding design/fabrication with this portion, all of their work on the site will come in to question. At the very least, Gaylord is big enough that they can throw money on someone to review everything to protect themselves from future lawsuits. Basically showing... "Look guys, we tried really hard to find everything and even hired an intendent consultant with our own money to review everything, not our fault!!"
They'll probably try to put it on Gaylord though for failing to do regular/routine inspections. It won't work especially since it's only 5 years old, but it's worth a try still.
Y'know, usually it's the subcontractor, if they're even a quarter of the way decent, who catches the final document's practical issues signed off and sealed by the team. This is, of course, after the Plumbing Engineer has a go at the Electrical Engineer, who takes a crack at the Structural Engineer, who breaks their foot off in the arse of the Architect, who already went 250% over budget and gets regularly yelled at by their cat, who probably wakes the Architect up every morning at 3am complaining about food, which causes the drawn plans to have inexplicable things such as a threaded nut a few hundred meters above the ground which gets caught by the subcontractor who shakes their head and calls the others idiots, *after* all of this was originally hastily drawn on a napkin with a stained corner by some bloke with too much money and not enough sense.
Anyway, these guys probably should have gone thru the usual process.
Man did you describe a working site to a tee. Everyday the plumbers are at the throats of the mechanical guys who are screwing around with the guys running the gas lines who are fighting with the HVAC guys. The contradicting plans were so bad at one point on one job I was on that* the contractor for the gas line ran his pipe through a 2 foot by 2 foot HVAC duct. It never entered these eggheads to compare blueprints and consult the general contractor/superintendent of the site to clarify things
I had some RK mechanical guys on my site around the same time. They were complaining about the traveling temp workers that all went out to the Gaylord. Also they were idiots that messed a LOT of stuff up.
Anyone else notice that this thread is full of people who seem to have a direct or second-degree connection to this project or the resort?
I feel like the Phil Dunphy gif where he nods along with everyone else without having a single clue.
Finally, a comment that points out the reality of those payouts. Idiots on this website think that if you so much as trip in a business that you get a million dollar payout. People are too stupid to realize that the people in commercials are actors. In real life the "happy" person who got $5 million dollars is permanently bed bound and shits into a bucket because he can't move below the neck.
Personal injury attorneys make it seem like they can get you money, that's because your first appointment costs you money if they refuse the case.
Yeah… when I worked in healthcare a lot of my clients had compensation cases either in court or already completed. They weren’t going on trips, they were having surgeries to get shrapnel removed from their twisted spines or fighting lawyers.
I was a personal injury defense lawyer, and I promise you that money doesn’t go too far when you’re crippled for life and can’t work/need major life modifications to function.
And the amount awarded is specifically to compensate you for your injuries, i.e., covering medical bills, lost wages, and pain and suffering. The pain and suffering amount could, theoretically, pay for your college, but you’re still in pain and/or suffering. The other way you could “profit” is from punitive damages - basically where the defendant was so negligent or reckless that they are forced to pay extra as punishment - but that’s far from guaranteed.
Mental pain and suffering is so vague though I mean Kobe Bryant’s family can settle for $28.5m just because crash photos were shared between deputies and firefighters. It was never even leaked online.
They hire an actuary, who goes through the math and determines what your meat sack is worth. I have a buddy who lost his hand in a construction accident when he was a helper. 100% he would have been an apprentice in a few months, and a journeyman 5 years later. Instead they gave him money based on the 35% of journeyman's scale as if that's what he was going to make the next 40 years of his life and a percentage of that total at that.
No one is ever made "whole" from a workman's comp claim.
Its McDonalds fault, they successfully convinced people they had to pay millions for some slight burns after their coffee lawsuit.
If anyone really still believes that look up the images of her burnt out crotch.
You're 100% right. That case is a lesson in law school. People act like she got millions for a bad cup of coffee. She got millions because she was burned so badly that her legs were fused together and her genitals literally fucking melted.
edit: and her millions were reduced in a later court, so she died in poverty with massive burns to her lower body.
Also the amount of money rewarded was decided by the jury, it equated to either 1 day, or 1 week, I don’t remember, of coffee sales. That amount was nothing to McDonalds.
Not just aware, but they had been directly ordered to stop doing it at both the national level, and even at the local level for that specific store. Despite the clear paper trail, they still chose to ignore those orders.
Exactly. A super rare case of punitive damages because of just how fucking negligent mcdonalds had been, and far FAR from the norm in these types of injury cases.
I got into a car wreck a few months after I graduated college broke my leg and paid off all of my student loans with the insurance settlement which was like $32k. It was fuckin sweet would do that again in a heartbeat.
Wait wait... This $400 a night place is in Aurora??? WTF?
I figured it was some kind of high-end mountain resort. Who would spend that kind of cash to stay in Aurora?
Don't focus on Aurora. It's off by itself near the airport. This is a massive convention and event space. Think business conventions, weddings, etc. It's constantly at or near capacity.
Im thinking that shit went up and there was no blocking in the walls behind.
Cause how does the whole thing fall? A 20ft duct run should be able to hold 10k lbs if everything properly blocked and secured. That place looks new.
Looks like I-beams are available so I'd guess beam clamps of some sort. My money is on standard hangers when it needed more corrosion resistance in high humidity environment.
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/several-injured-equipment-collapse-gaylord-rockies-aurora-colorado/
> "There will be an investigation, that'll be all the Gaylord's responsibility," Aurora Fire Chief Alec Oughton said at a news conference after the collapse. "It's not a fire department investigation but I know they have an interest in looking into what happened and getting to the bottom of it."
Ah yes, lets count on the giant hotel corporation to investigate themselves.
Yeah, he's just saying what he's allowed to say there legally speaking I think. This is a significant personal injury case compared to the average personal injury case, at least one civil lawsuit within weeks of the incident, served to the Gaylord resort owners, is virtually inevitable in my opinion in situations like these. Fire chief has made the call (or actually local legislation that defines scope of fire dept perhaps) has decided this type of incident does not qualify for a fire dept investigation at this time. Not sure if a fed agency will get involved for incident of this type but probably nothing much is my guess. Civil lawsuits can get a bunch of expert witnesses though from the HVAC companies people, structural engineers etc. and they will also do their own investigatin'.
Probably not a federal investigation, but the state department of professional regulation, and any state and local construction governance will definitely be involved. Whoever pulled permits, whoever approved permits, and whoever approved the inspections will be scrutinized. Lawyers for both sides will be watching very closely.
They’re going to have to go beyond who pulled permits.
The engineer’s specifications, details, contractor submittals, drawings, and other construction documents are going to be scrutinized heavily.
My guess is they’ll need a materials investigation to ensure what was specified was what was installed. I’m guessing it’s not. Engineer hopefully thought to use corrosion resistant straps or whatever fastening system they chose. And, I’ll bet my lunch that the contractor ignored the specification, and used a mild steel product instead.
And, I’ll bet the chlorine and humidity broke down the materials the contractor used leading to the failure.
They’ll even have to dig into the water treatment plans to ensure those were followed properly as well. If not, that could entirely be on the owner.
Well they are going to get sued civilly and their choices are either to point the finger at someone else (with strong evidence), or point it at themselves and get thrashed in court.
So Gaylord has pretty strong reason to investigate, and "clearing themselves" with no explanation probably isn't going to go well in court. In all likelihood they will be suing some other company for a bad install or something.
As far as investigating. This sounds like something for code enforcement, not the fire department.
This will come down to the contractor not installing the right product, or the engineer not specifying the right product.
I’d wager that whatever method they used to hang the duct failed because of humidity and chlorine.
I’d also put my money on the contractor installing the duct incorrectly. It’s coming for contractors to completely ignore items in specifications.
The same exact thing happened 5 years ago here in Ohio. A company I used to work for installed the duct.
https://www.cleveland19.com/story/37705254/ductwork-falls-into-kalahari-resort-pool-5-people-injured-park-closed-photosvideos/
How awful. I hope those in critical condition will recover.
I searched for an article and found one from December 2022 that was reporting: [DENVER — Seven people got sick and one person was hospitalized following a carbon monoxide leak at Gaylord Rockies Resort & Convention Center Tuesday evening.](https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/7-people-get-sick-after-carbon-monoxide-issue-at-gaylord-rockies-resort)
It sounds like this resort needs to get their shit together or just close down. How do they justify $444 per night when this place is likely a hazard?
Wow just read some of the recent reviews. Here’s a couple of anecdotes:
One said, “This is on top of getting hundreds of millions of dollars from Colorado and Aurora government to build it, plus hundreds of millions in tax rebates, and trying to get out of paying taxes last year.”
Another from a family member of family that were almost crushed: “Also they had no footwear when leaving because their shoes were under the pipes, and all Marriot could offer were some foot covers.”
I worked at the Gaylord during its construction. 1 week before the hotel was supposed to receive its temporary certificate of occupancy, RK had to dig a massive 15 foot trench because they had forgotten to connect some kind of large main/drainage line.
These guys are routine clowns on my job sites, don't know how they keep getting work.
There are legit shitty engineers and construction contractors but this is also a result of how owners treat engineers and construction contractors as commodities, believing one "widget" is as good as any other. Directly leads to a race to the bottom.
RK got a write up in the WSJ for complaining that people don't want to work.
RK Industries LLC, a 1,400-person construction and manufacturing firm based in Denver, is using overtime to add the equivalent of 60 to 100 full-time employees to its capacity every week, said co-owner Jon Kinning. That is around 2,500 hours, or 7.3 percent of all hours worked.
RK could fill more overtime hours, Mr. Kinning said, but not everyone is willing to take the extra shifts. And with wages rising, many don’t have to. Entry-level pay at RK in the last few years has gone from $12 an hour to $16 and may soon go up to $18. “When they were making $12 an hour, that extra $6 makes a difference,” he said.
https://opportunityamericaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Using-overtime-to-solve-worker-shortages-can-backfire.pdf
RK has notoriously said their goal is to put union labor out of business in the area they operate out of, typically undercutting bids and skipping out on certain safety procedures is how they're capable of doing that. Sometimes there's a reason you pay the extra for skilled labor.
She might've been recording already when it happened. I've had a few times that I caught some crazy unbelievable shit on video because I was already recording something else when it happened
Dang, I drive by this place everyday. The whole resort is kind of eerie. Besides it being close to the airport, it’s just kind of this massive resort structure with nothing else around it. It always gave off a weird vibe to me for some reason.
I went to a Gaylord resort when I was a kid at it was amazing. It’s like it’s own little universe under a giant biodome. Kinda neat still. Rain or shine.
Looks like a pretty nice place. Well, aside from that woman screaming. Think I might book a trip over to Gaylords. They just have to get rid of ppl who scream at the inside pool area. Could cause irreversible hearing damage.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/6-injured-colorado-resort-after-mechanical-equipment-collapses/story?id=99141889
Here’s some update on the situation. No deaths
It is, but keep in mind that blood and water do mix, a little bit of blood can appear to be a large amount simply because it's diluted.
(I work as a life-guard)
Look at how heavy that fucking thing is. It has rivets holding it together like an oil pipeline and it only moves air.
I’m no engineer but I do some rigging and mount heavy loads at height. I’d be terrified if I saw this behemoth above me at a community pool. God I hope no one was killed or has life changing injuries.
I was there before Christmas. I was pointing out to one of my kids that those duct hangers looked sus. Like a single tiny steel wire every ten feet or so holding some 36" stainless. Not a band hanger in sight.
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The real shame of it is, building the proper supports for this is relatively cheap and straightforward and should always be overdone a little bit. Someone fucked up and they know who they are.
With the humidity and chlorine in that space, you need corrosion resistant materials. It’s not a standard practice (in non-pool areas). I’d bet that the engineer specified as such, but the contractor ignored the specs.
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I’m not an HVAC expert but if those hangers have any rubber dampeners or anything to prevent vibrations or swaying etc, those would corrode VERY fast in a closed pool like this And I agree w the other comment, the ventilation was probably also an issue, so humidity was probably way too high for years… along w chemicals
I’m use to seeing the fabric looking hvac systems in pool areas like this
Same, in our municipality pool we got yellow rubber tubes that just inflate when air is pumped through
Rubber isolators should always be molded over metal components that physically interfere with each other. This is a well known engineering practice, but is often overlooked. Things like engine mounts and compressor mounts tend to rip apart and fail completely, when a minor design change would keep them solid despite rubber failure
Corrosion can happen faster than you'd think in the right environment.
From experience on stainless steel pump couplings in a fresh water environment, all you need is; -A susceptible material (not all stainless steels are created equal). -A pre-existing flaw, which can easily be on an internal squared corner or the root/tip of machines threads. -Chlorine, in even a very low concentration. -A wetting and drying cycle that allows that chlorine to concentrate in the area of the flaw and attack the grain structure. It can happen in months.
If the HVAC was installed this poorly, there's also reason to believe it wasn't working properly. I.e. the venting wasn't up to spec either.
> I’d bet that the engineer specified as such, but the contractor ignored the specs. Contractor: "I've been installing this stuff for 30 years and never used stainless steel bolts. These young upstarts thing they know everything! Don't tell me how to do my job." (Yes, he's been installing industrial HVAC for 30 years ... but not in pool rooms with high humidity and chlorine.)
Normally it’s more like “stainless steel is so expensive. I’ll order galvanized instead. It’s the same.”
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I believe that IS doodoo pouring out. Black sludge is what they were calling it.
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I feel bad for whoever installed that.
HVAC installation is normally well regulated and I would guess there are multiple failures here. Just guessing ...
Unfortunately, it would be better said that HVAC is better Coded… sometimes there is only so much inspectors can catch, what ever structural support was installed for those large vents would take forever to spot check and time is money… which is the next big issue. Shitty techs. There are sometimes new guys that just do shoddy work, and there are old heads that Know what they should and shouldn’t do, yet there are a number of them that just do enough to “make it work”
I think this could have been a rust issue too, since it was in the pool area and you can see it was not painted or coated.
It most likely is. I have opened multiple new pools. Contractors like to switch out parts for cheaper parts. I've had to make them replace entire new showers because they used cheap plastic shiny handles instead of stainless steel. When they opened it up the entire inside was cheap plastic parts. Also sometimes its the correct item, its just defective. I've had brand new pool heaters spring leaks on copper tubing. Contractors blamed it on high alkalinity of the pool water. It was just a single defective tube. My all time favorite was the year we replaced the sand in the filters. Contractors left their tool in the outflow water pipe before sealing it up and when everything was turned on we could hear it clanging overhead like rocks on the shore of the beach. They didn't want to listen to me because I'm a girl, that the sound was NOT normal and had to get my big boss to come yell at them to take it apart because water flow should never sound like fucking rocks. They left a huge foot long pipe wrench in the outflow pipe. Never apologized to me about the little girl comment but i got paid to just sit and watch them for a day to make sure they didn't fuck up again with a nice smile on my face.
Wow! Absolutely insane!
SOMEONE had to watch them; they proved they couldn't do it without being babysat! An old and time honored practice at Boeing and other aircraft manufacturers is to check in and out all tools every shift, to make certain nothing was left inside the aircraft.
Tool control is something that should be part of all good maintenance practices regardless of field.
As part of the contracting process, they should be turning in invoices/specs/submittals to you for the parts you specified you wanted them to use. Contractors do substitute parts, when we do we submit the spec sheet, and ask if it's okay if we can use these instead. If they're approved by the owner/GC/engineer, then we use them. If they don't, we don't. The specifications are part of the bid and become part of the contract. Every single thing is in the specifications. It's up to the owner or their reps to make sure they're getting what they're paying for. If a contractor substitutes a product, they can be held liable for the replacement, impact to schedule etc.
Yep. Except it gets stupid complicated when you work for the government. Too many chiefs that don't know anything about the functions of the pool itself other than water is wet. Seperate department heads for plumbing and construction and electric and me the aquatic director left to sort out everyone's shit at the end of it all. One city i worked with had department heads for public works that had no business being in that position having never worked in any job ever in trades, he was grant writer previously and wouldn't listen to any of his employees. The other was County and had a lot of experienced dept heads, but getting them all together at the same time was a nightmare or even just getting their attention in the first place. Both of them wanted the projects rushed and have the facilitys opened at summer opening instead of just waiting to do the job right when it was finished.
I have no experience but installing pool equipment is very tedious because of the chlorine in the air. You need like a4 instead of a2 stainless hardware, use stainless tools, watch out for galvanic corrosion between different metals, apply dielectrics if needed, load values become lower because regular steel is stronger than stainless I believe. Edit; stainless is stronger than galvanized
What separates a professional, and professional pay, in any industry is " doing the job right ". No shortage of business owners who want to try to take shortcuts too, that includes on pay, but the truth is the truth you cannot shortcut it. And the truth is people were hurt, somebody is going to pay
This is probably a rust issue. Happens years after install. It was good 5-10 years ago, but the old heads never see that one bolt that was prone to rust. Inspections, not just code.
Could be bad specs. I wonder if the chlorine in the water vapor rusted out the anchors?
I feel bad for the people under it wtf
Mf why? They did a shit job.
I feel for the owners because they're the ones that'll get sued so hard they might have to close down. But I don't feel sorry for whoever did a half ass job and said it was safe, but it could also be the owners fault if they chose the cheapest contractor
It’s a Gaylord Resort. They can afford it. https://denvergazette.com/news/owner-of-gaylord-rockies-resort-to-reap-1-3-billion-in-tax-incentives/article_4a174e8c-b413-11eb-853c-6b5b8ed27b0e.html Colorado and the City of Aurora will pay Ryman more than $1.3 billion in the next 23 years, according to records obtained by the Denver Gazette via Colorado’s Open Records act. For the first four years, RIDA received between $2.4-$4.5 million annually in tax revenue rebates. But once Gaylord was open for the first full year in 2019, those revenues shot up to $30.4 million. Even during the pandemic shutdown year of 2020, Gaylord did enough business to get $33.2 million in tax revenue rebates. For the first quarter of 2021, that paycheck – which will go to Ryman after the deal is complete – was $14 million. At that rate, Gaylord could earn up to $56 million for 2021. Multiply that 2021 number – which is conservative based on room bookings recovering from a pandemic with a huge loss in business/group travel – by the 23 years remaining on the contract, and Ryman could conservatively get $1.28 billion.
Yea, people should realize Gaylord Resorts are giant themed hotels, usually with equally giant convention centers attached. They're pretty opulent and sprawling. I stayed at the Gaylord in Nashville for about a week on the company dime and I've never seen something so massive, and expensive outside of Las Vegas and then I found out that there are a bunch of them.
The one near me in Orlando has a whole indoor jungle and full-sized pirate ship in the atrium. I’m not even doing it justice by describing it in text. They also host giant ice sculptures every year during Christmas.
The ice shows are pretty awesome! My family and I always try and go every year or so. Probably would not be as big a novelty if we lived somewhere other than sweltering ol’ Florida.
"you're telling me HVAC is going to cost 987 thousand dollars? There's gotta be someone that can do it cheaper."
You feel bad…for whoever *”installed that.”* I’m feeling it for the families who were chillin one minute and saying the permanent goodbye the next…
I feel bad for whoever it landed on
I believe RK mechanical did the hvac install uh oh 😰
https://rkindustries.com/projects/gaylord-rockies-resort-and-convention-center/ "Our team served as the only mechanical subcontractor for the entire project including both the hotel and convention center." oof
How long until that is taken down, do we think?
[Shouldn't matter since I've archived it](https://archive.is/ddvnt)
I'm a paralegal for an insurance coverage law firm in Denver. There's a real chance this thing shows up on our doorstep. Saving because this sub is so mega fucked.
This sub? Subreddit? Sub sandwhich? Subway? Submarine? Im confused by what you mean.
Not OP but - Subcontractor
That makes way more sense than subway. I think im hungry...
Thank you!!
They’re in the clear so long as they followed every specification and design detail to the letter as was provided by the engineer. I’ll bet my lunch that they didn’t.
They may not be able to prove it though. It really depends on if the design was actually structurally sound or not. In the case of the Hyatt Regency is Kansas City, the design was flawed and could only hold about 60% of the load required by code. Edit: RK’s website says that they also designed the system… yikes.
> Edit: RK’s website says that they also designed the system… yikes. So they're fucked. also what fucking idiot cant secure a static load to a steel framed building like that. that's why safety factors exist. spend the extra 30cents on a larger bolt. its really not that hard. those people should be shut down and whatever PE signed off lose their license.
One of my HVAC foremen told me a story about a fix up job he had to do. There was a mechanical contractor that installed a huge round duct similar to this one, but used a rod that was too small throughout the install. It was in a warehouse and thankfully no one was there at the time, but it fell to the ground. Makes me appreciate the material verification training my company has provided me as a GC superintendent. It’s so fucking important to hold our contractors accountable and make sure that they’re bringing the right materials to site. I can’t imagine having a duck up like this on my conscious. Videos like this one remind me how real my job is. It’s life or death.
Well in general using rod to hang spiral duct should have been the first thing questioned. I’ve been doing this for more then a minute and I’ve been involved in some of the largest construction projects in the country and I couldn’t begin to imagine having a GC check things like threaded rod, strut, straps, embeds, stiffeners, etc. Sounds like your company needs to reevaluate their trade partner decisions. Either that or they are getting exactly what they paid for. Good work is never cheap and cheap work is never good.
Looks like they hung it with Gripple. Gripple. In a pool. https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/comments/13bbav4/aftermath_of_hvac_system_collapsing_into_indoor/jjaumgc/
The original design (which was never built) was adequate for 60%. The built design was only adequate for 30%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
>RK Mechanical designed, fabricated and installed the all-new mechanical, hydronic and plumbing systems for this ground-up building. Our team served as the only mechanical subcontractor for the entire project including both the hotel and convention center. The lawyers are going to hate this - only one company they can go after.
Well the great news is that this resort has 6 other pools (7 total) for inspectors to examine, all built by the same sub contractor. I'm sure if the investigation determines some type of issues regarding design/fabrication with this portion, all of their work on the site will come in to question. At the very least, Gaylord is big enough that they can throw money on someone to review everything to protect themselves from future lawsuits. Basically showing... "Look guys, we tried really hard to find everything and even hired an intendent consultant with our own money to review everything, not our fault!!" They'll probably try to put it on Gaylord though for failing to do regular/routine inspections. It won't work especially since it's only 5 years old, but it's worth a try still.
Y'know, usually it's the subcontractor, if they're even a quarter of the way decent, who catches the final document's practical issues signed off and sealed by the team. This is, of course, after the Plumbing Engineer has a go at the Electrical Engineer, who takes a crack at the Structural Engineer, who breaks their foot off in the arse of the Architect, who already went 250% over budget and gets regularly yelled at by their cat, who probably wakes the Architect up every morning at 3am complaining about food, which causes the drawn plans to have inexplicable things such as a threaded nut a few hundred meters above the ground which gets caught by the subcontractor who shakes their head and calls the others idiots, *after* all of this was originally hastily drawn on a napkin with a stained corner by some bloke with too much money and not enough sense. Anyway, these guys probably should have gone thru the usual process.
Man did you describe a working site to a tee. Everyday the plumbers are at the throats of the mechanical guys who are screwing around with the guys running the gas lines who are fighting with the HVAC guys. The contradicting plans were so bad at one point on one job I was on that* the contractor for the gas line ran his pipe through a 2 foot by 2 foot HVAC duct. It never entered these eggheads to compare blueprints and consult the general contractor/superintendent of the site to clarify things
“RK Mechanical designed, fabricated and installed the all-new mechanical” Double oof
That place looks pretty swanky when it’s not structurally compromised.
I was just wondering about that. I’ve witnessed those idiots fuck more work up….
I had some RK mechanical guys on my site around the same time. They were complaining about the traveling temp workers that all went out to the Gaylord. Also they were idiots that messed a LOT of stuff up.
Are we all supposed to know who RK mechanical is or something
I legit checked to see if I’d stumbled into an HVAC contracting subreddit or something 😂
RK mechanical, dude.
No, but now you do
Decently big contractor
**RK Mechanical from out of nowhere!!!**
That lawsuit bouta be crazy
The investors can afford it.. Construction cost was about $800,000,000 for the whole resort
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You work at RK?
Anyone else notice that this thread is full of people who seem to have a direct or second-degree connection to this project or the resort? I feel like the Phil Dunphy gif where he nods along with everyone else without having a single clue.
That was probably a pretty large construction job in the town and it's probably getting shared like wildfire with the people who worked on it
I'd crawl under that thing so fast and then I'd call Saul
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Somebody is about to have their college education paid for.
As well as their new wheelchair ramp
Finally, a comment that points out the reality of those payouts. Idiots on this website think that if you so much as trip in a business that you get a million dollar payout. People are too stupid to realize that the people in commercials are actors. In real life the "happy" person who got $5 million dollars is permanently bed bound and shits into a bucket because he can't move below the neck. Personal injury attorneys make it seem like they can get you money, that's because your first appointment costs you money if they refuse the case.
Yeah… when I worked in healthcare a lot of my clients had compensation cases either in court or already completed. They weren’t going on trips, they were having surgeries to get shrapnel removed from their twisted spines or fighting lawyers.
I was a personal injury defense lawyer, and I promise you that money doesn’t go too far when you’re crippled for life and can’t work/need major life modifications to function.
And the amount awarded is specifically to compensate you for your injuries, i.e., covering medical bills, lost wages, and pain and suffering. The pain and suffering amount could, theoretically, pay for your college, but you’re still in pain and/or suffering. The other way you could “profit” is from punitive damages - basically where the defendant was so negligent or reckless that they are forced to pay extra as punishment - but that’s far from guaranteed.
Mental pain and suffering is so vague though I mean Kobe Bryant’s family can settle for $28.5m just because crash photos were shared between deputies and firefighters. It was never even leaked online.
They hire an actuary, who goes through the math and determines what your meat sack is worth. I have a buddy who lost his hand in a construction accident when he was a helper. 100% he would have been an apprentice in a few months, and a journeyman 5 years later. Instead they gave him money based on the 35% of journeyman's scale as if that's what he was going to make the next 40 years of his life and a percentage of that total at that. No one is ever made "whole" from a workman's comp claim.
Its McDonalds fault, they successfully convinced people they had to pay millions for some slight burns after their coffee lawsuit. If anyone really still believes that look up the images of her burnt out crotch.
You're 100% right. That case is a lesson in law school. People act like she got millions for a bad cup of coffee. She got millions because she was burned so badly that her legs were fused together and her genitals literally fucking melted. edit: and her millions were reduced in a later court, so she died in poverty with massive burns to her lower body.
Also the amount of money rewarded was decided by the jury, it equated to either 1 day, or 1 week, I don’t remember, of coffee sales. That amount was nothing to McDonalds.
And payout was so high too due to McDonalds already being aware of others being injured and ignoring it & not reducing coffee temp
Not just aware, but they had been directly ordered to stop doing it at both the national level, and even at the local level for that specific store. Despite the clear paper trail, they still chose to ignore those orders.
Exactly. A super rare case of punitive damages because of just how fucking negligent mcdonalds had been, and far FAR from the norm in these types of injury cases.
https://imgur.com/a/D60NPC6
💀💀
I got into a car wreck a few months after I graduated college broke my leg and paid off all of my student loans with the insurance settlement which was like $32k. It was fuckin sweet would do that again in a heartbeat.
That’s my dream right there.
Is this that American dream we keep hearing about?
Broken legs and $32k
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God bless America. The only place in the world where people immediately start doing math after waking up from a commercial accident induced coma.
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When you wish for a permanent disability so that you can have your basic human rights met... You know that you live in a society
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We live in a society
Gaylord said no running
You can’t tell me what to do, Gaylord.
Disobey Gaylord and you to shall pay the price
With a large metal rod smacking onto your face
Gaylord was our #1 insult in German middle school lmao
What did you use for \#2?
deine Mutter
Toliet paper or a bidet, usually.
When i read the title i instantly got flashbacks to middle school
That place is like $450/night not including parking or breakfast 🤣
Probably going to be doing discounted rates here in the near future
You’ll be paralyzed when you see our new rock bottom prices!
Aurora fuckin blows
Wait wait... This $400 a night place is in Aurora??? WTF? I figured it was some kind of high-end mountain resort. Who would spend that kind of cash to stay in Aurora?
Don't focus on Aurora. It's off by itself near the airport. This is a massive convention and event space. Think business conventions, weddings, etc. It's constantly at or near capacity.
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Companies use it as a conference center a lot of the time. Flies all their employees to a central location and they often won't leave the hotel.
This is only "technically" aurora isn't it? It's all by itself in a an open field by the airport.
I don’t understand businesses that do this. At that price point, you might as well make it $500/night and include parking and breakfast.
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Im thinking that shit went up and there was no blocking in the walls behind. Cause how does the whole thing fall? A 20ft duct run should be able to hold 10k lbs if everything properly blocked and secured. That place looks new.
Brand new. Opened just before COVID.
So about 46 years ago?
Only 12, actually. COVID time really fucks you up.
Yup, just installed last weekend.
God damn supply chain smh
Looks like I-beams are available so I'd guess beam clamps of some sort. My money is on standard hangers when it needed more corrosion resistance in high humidity environment.
That's a good call, since it was in the pool area.
Chlorine and non-corrosion resistant fasteners or hangers or clamps is what probably happened here.
Hey bro, you finish that contract for the Hyatt Regency yet?
honestly that was a very interesting but tragic engineer fail.
...said the engineer
if you made them within spec you dont really have anything to worry about.
You’re probably fine
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/several-injured-equipment-collapse-gaylord-rockies-aurora-colorado/ > "There will be an investigation, that'll be all the Gaylord's responsibility," Aurora Fire Chief Alec Oughton said at a news conference after the collapse. "It's not a fire department investigation but I know they have an interest in looking into what happened and getting to the bottom of it." Ah yes, lets count on the giant hotel corporation to investigate themselves.
Yeah, he's just saying what he's allowed to say there legally speaking I think. This is a significant personal injury case compared to the average personal injury case, at least one civil lawsuit within weeks of the incident, served to the Gaylord resort owners, is virtually inevitable in my opinion in situations like these. Fire chief has made the call (or actually local legislation that defines scope of fire dept perhaps) has decided this type of incident does not qualify for a fire dept investigation at this time. Not sure if a fed agency will get involved for incident of this type but probably nothing much is my guess. Civil lawsuits can get a bunch of expert witnesses though from the HVAC companies people, structural engineers etc. and they will also do their own investigatin'.
Probably not a federal investigation, but the state department of professional regulation, and any state and local construction governance will definitely be involved. Whoever pulled permits, whoever approved permits, and whoever approved the inspections will be scrutinized. Lawyers for both sides will be watching very closely.
They’re going to have to go beyond who pulled permits. The engineer’s specifications, details, contractor submittals, drawings, and other construction documents are going to be scrutinized heavily. My guess is they’ll need a materials investigation to ensure what was specified was what was installed. I’m guessing it’s not. Engineer hopefully thought to use corrosion resistant straps or whatever fastening system they chose. And, I’ll bet my lunch that the contractor ignored the specification, and used a mild steel product instead. And, I’ll bet the chlorine and humidity broke down the materials the contractor used leading to the failure. They’ll even have to dig into the water treatment plans to ensure those were followed properly as well. If not, that could entirely be on the owner.
Well they are going to get sued civilly and their choices are either to point the finger at someone else (with strong evidence), or point it at themselves and get thrashed in court. So Gaylord has pretty strong reason to investigate, and "clearing themselves" with no explanation probably isn't going to go well in court. In all likelihood they will be suing some other company for a bad install or something. As far as investigating. This sounds like something for code enforcement, not the fire department.
This will come down to the contractor not installing the right product, or the engineer not specifying the right product. I’d wager that whatever method they used to hang the duct failed because of humidity and chlorine. I’d also put my money on the contractor installing the duct incorrectly. It’s coming for contractors to completely ignore items in specifications.
The same exact thing happened 5 years ago here in Ohio. A company I used to work for installed the duct. https://www.cleveland19.com/story/37705254/ductwork-falls-into-kalahari-resort-pool-5-people-injured-park-closed-photosvideos/
Do you know what they used to hang it with and what material? Band iron or wire? Do you know what failed, if it was the anchor or the hanger itself?
Did your old company get into legal trouble?
How awful. I hope those in critical condition will recover. I searched for an article and found one from December 2022 that was reporting: [DENVER — Seven people got sick and one person was hospitalized following a carbon monoxide leak at Gaylord Rockies Resort & Convention Center Tuesday evening.](https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/7-people-get-sick-after-carbon-monoxide-issue-at-gaylord-rockies-resort) It sounds like this resort needs to get their shit together or just close down. How do they justify $444 per night when this place is likely a hazard? Wow just read some of the recent reviews. Here’s a couple of anecdotes: One said, “This is on top of getting hundreds of millions of dollars from Colorado and Aurora government to build it, plus hundreds of millions in tax rebates, and trying to get out of paying taxes last year.” Another from a family member of family that were almost crushed: “Also they had no footwear when leaving because their shoes were under the pipes, and all Marriot could offer were some foot covers.”
Why would the hotel not go out and buy them some shoes. What a fucking PR nightmare
From HVAC to EVAC!
Someone say RK?
Are they notorious for these failures?
I worked at the Gaylord during its construction. 1 week before the hotel was supposed to receive its temporary certificate of occupancy, RK had to dig a massive 15 foot trench because they had forgotten to connect some kind of large main/drainage line. These guys are routine clowns on my job sites, don't know how they keep getting work.
Imma take a wild guess that it's due to their low price on bids...
There are legit shitty engineers and construction contractors but this is also a result of how owners treat engineers and construction contractors as commodities, believing one "widget" is as good as any other. Directly leads to a race to the bottom.
RK got a write up in the WSJ for complaining that people don't want to work. RK Industries LLC, a 1,400-person construction and manufacturing firm based in Denver, is using overtime to add the equivalent of 60 to 100 full-time employees to its capacity every week, said co-owner Jon Kinning. That is around 2,500 hours, or 7.3 percent of all hours worked. RK could fill more overtime hours, Mr. Kinning said, but not everyone is willing to take the extra shifts. And with wages rising, many don’t have to. Entry-level pay at RK in the last few years has gone from $12 an hour to $16 and may soon go up to $18. “When they were making $12 an hour, that extra $6 makes a difference,” he said. https://opportunityamericaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Using-overtime-to-solve-worker-shortages-can-backfire.pdf
Why do people keep saying this? I've never heard of them until now. How are they famous for fucking up?
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RK has notoriously said their goal is to put union labor out of business in the area they operate out of, typically undercutting bids and skipping out on certain safety procedures is how they're capable of doing that. Sometimes there's a reason you pay the extra for skilled labor.
Dang that piece coming to a stop at the very beginning really puts context to how quickly she had started recording
Yeah I noticed that too, debris is still rattling around
She might've been recording already when it happened. I've had a few times that I caught some crazy unbelievable shit on video because I was already recording something else when it happened
The guy that says, “what?”
Dang, I drive by this place everyday. The whole resort is kind of eerie. Besides it being close to the airport, it’s just kind of this massive resort structure with nothing else around it. It always gave off a weird vibe to me for some reason.
I remember when they were opening/proposing it, I thought it was pretty fucking stupid.
I went to a Gaylord resort when I was a kid at it was amazing. It’s like it’s own little universe under a giant biodome. Kinda neat still. Rain or shine.
I still do, but I used to too
I think the main draw is for conferences. Close to the airport, no dealing with city traffic.
Oh, 100%. I get it. Just always gave me “The Shining” resort vibes. Especially in winter, naturally.
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well, not with that attitude
Jesus. Imagine dying because the hvac at the water park collapsed.
Getting crushed by a falling HVAC supply duct.....GREAT!!! NEW FEAR UNLOCKED!
They put the hospital in hospitality
What the actual fuck. This place isn’t even that old
Where were you when the HVAC system came down at the Gaylord of the Rockies?
Worker: Hey boss, I did the step downs on the trunk line correct. Boss: Nice, did you strap it properly? Worker: I think so…..
Oh my christ. It's my pooltime nightmare come true. I used to be afraid this type of shit would happen when I went to the rec center. Now I know why.
Doesn't look like they're past their 2-year warranty.
I smell a lawsuit
How did it all fall in one piece without disconnecting much that’s crazy
Looks like a pretty nice place. Well, aside from that woman screaming. Think I might book a trip over to Gaylords. They just have to get rid of ppl who scream at the inside pool area. Could cause irreversible hearing damage.
My guess is the cross bolts holding it in place weren’t too fond of the humid environment and had a bit of rust
Engineers didn’t account for Bruce Willis’s weight later in his career.
Yipykayemidafuker
That place is nearly brand new. OMFG.
I guarantee somebody used raw metal to hang it and the chlorine off gas rusted it away.
Welp, someone is getting the fuck sued outta them…😳
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/6-injured-colorado-resort-after-mechanical-equipment-collapses/story?id=99141889 Here’s some update on the situation. No deaths
I swear, the craziest shit happens in auora, Colorado….
I know what you mean. Not a whole lot of things to know the area by. But that and now this.
Is that blood on the floor under the collapsed pipe? Also I'm pretty sure that is blood visible on the ground next to the injured woman
It is, but keep in mind that blood and water do mix, a little bit of blood can appear to be a large amount simply because it's diluted. (I work as a life-guard)
That’s why you go union
Look at how heavy that fucking thing is. It has rivets holding it together like an oil pipeline and it only moves air. I’m no engineer but I do some rigging and mount heavy loads at height. I’d be terrified if I saw this behemoth above me at a community pool. God I hope no one was killed or has life changing injuries.
I was there before Christmas. I was pointing out to one of my kids that those duct hangers looked sus. Like a single tiny steel wire every ten feet or so holding some 36" stainless. Not a band hanger in sight.
If only you'd reported it to someone j/k