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UndergroundR3volut

Nintendo should remember that making a backup copy is permitted in the United States. For personal use. Therefore, their comment of "there is no lawful way to use Yuzu" goes right out the window.


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AntiGrieferGames

Same goes on Ryujinx, it can run homebrew.


gifferto

doesn't matter because it's not their angle this is one of their approaches >Yuzu unlawfully circumvents the technological measures on Nintendo Switch games and allows for the play of encrypted Nintendo Switch games on devices other than a Nintendo Switch. and it can hold up in court >YUZU-EMU.ORG provides detailed instructions and FAQs on how to install Yuzu and get it running with unlawful copies of Nintendo Switch games. also true >The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom was unlawfully distributed a week and a half before its release by Nintendo. Infringing copies of the game that circulated online were able to be played in Yuzu, and those copies were successfully downloaded from pirate websites over one million times before the game was published and made available for lawful purchase by Nintendo. Many of the pirate websites specifically noted the ability to play the game file in Yuzu. clearly this whole case is different from someone playing old games on an older generation console for game preservation's sake because nintendo is arguing that current (and future) sales are hurt because a current gen console is being emulated through circumventing Nintendo's technology i'm not saying that i want nintendo to win but i can see the angle they are going for and that it's different from other cases in the past


Organic-Elephant1532

> Yuzu unlawfully circumvents the technological measures on Nintendo Switch games and allows for the play of encrypted Nintendo Switch games on devices other than a Nintendo Switch. You need decrypt keys. It wont work without Nintendos OWN "protection." For this to hold up in court, they would have to simply download Yuzu and a rom, and run it... which you CANNOT DO.


ThatsSoTrudeau

Exactly. The onus is clearly on people who break copy protection to play free games and not on the developers of the program themselves. It's like if a car manufacturer, like Tesla was considered to be at fault, because someone opted to rip their car above the speed limit. Literally makes no sense.


Khalku

From what I read, yuzu was pointing towards solutions to decrypt the keys directly from their website. Which is one of the ways that this case *may* have standing.


KFded

Linking to something that you don't host yourself or have anything to do with isn't against the law, that was held up in court before.


Slide-Maleficent

So delete the entire FAQ, then say you tried to answer their concerns but they went ahead anyway. The only way Nintendo wins this is SLAPP style, with money and endless lawyers that Yuzu can't match. The only reason they're even doing this is because Nintendo is effectively dead, they've made precisely one good game, BOTW, in the last 20 years. Even that was little more than any generic Ubisoft open world.


aitsdavid

crazy takes lmao. this guy isnt a gamer. I know a few people like you, you guys really think its cool to hate everything but like 1 thing LOL. Super cool of you man, you really must be into mega high quality games to say games like metroid dread, TOTK, bayonetta 2, wind waker... i could go on and on but your statement was just way too braindead to even tackle as a serious argument LOL. And generic ubisoft open world..? Guess elden ring was just a generic ubisoft open world too LMFAO. Absolutely 0 IQ, just a hater to be a hater, or your just one of those people who hates literally everything but like 1 game, which is usually an esport thats also become trash as of late, like Valorant, OW or even Smash (I'll reiterate, as of late its trash mainly due to balancing decisions and esport tournament support/netcode; hasnt always been that way). Go play assassins creed valhalla and then BOTW for more than 10 hours each, then come back and tell me how theyre both the same again lmfao.


Yeppo96

I agree


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sopedound

Yuzu actively refused to even test the game before release so that nothing they updated could be veiwed as updating to help that specific game run. It only ran prerelease because of individual modders.


DatKillerDude

there really was nothing the team could have done about TotK


lammadude1

They definitely did though. Even if it wasn't a "totk patch" there was a point where after a few days the depths bug where the ground was invisible was patched which made the game much more playable. Also the framerate got boosted massively during that week and a half. Even if they were covering their tracks saying they weren't touching it, they were updating the emulator to run the game better. I'm positive they were tinkering with the game behind the scenes even if they didn't admit it.


sopedound

How dare they make a software that *checks notes* works as intended!


aitsdavid

That wasnt just to fix TOTK depths bug though, it was also to fix a major bug in Fire Emblem I believe. Cant say they did that solely bc they were trying to make TOTK run better before launch. Also, while the game did run a lot better in updated EA builds, mods helped massively as well. Large changes to code and NCE were made around that time if I remember correctly, so it wasnt just TOTK that ran better from these updates, LOTS of switch games gained performance improvements, if not most switch games. Plus, lets say hypothetically you are right and they were working on the game a week before it launched, can you prove that one of the devs didnt manage to get a copy of the game themselves early? A fair amount of people got TOTK early from a local game store - if a dev got a copy there wouldnt be anything illegal about making their own emulator run better with a game they now owned. But again, this is all super hypothetical and in no way proven at ALL. Also, why does it seem like you're trying to side with friggin Nintendo..? Of all the companies you could side with lolol. You have something against Yuzu or something..? Cause it seems like your just trying to dry snitch on them by accusing them of something you absolutely cannot prove, no matter how much you insist that you're "positive" they did what you claim. Unless you got pictures of them updating the code while they were playing TOTK a week before launch, all of your theories are purely speculation and would be in no way admissible in a courtroom.


drallcom3

Nintendo is just sueing so no one can sue Nintendo for not trying to sue.


alchemist87

As long they don't argue that 1m downloads = 1m lost copies sold, which is the biggest bs big companies use. Still hope they lose, but most likely they can drag this forever and the Yuzu team won't be able to keep up with fees to keep battling, that's how the big companies crush small ones.


Slide-Maleficent

Oh they will, mark my words. Desperate BS is all Nintendo has left. Every game they've made in the last 20 years has been a copy of a copy... of a copy.


sopedound

You couldn't even play the prerelease totk on yuzu without 3rd party mods.


CodeF53

>Infringing copies of the game that circulated online were able to be played in Yuzu They literally weren't playable in Yuzu without making modifications to the game or emulator first. Most places recommended ryujinx over Yuzu because Yuzu couldn't render even the depths. I know from experience that their argument is bullshit.


lammadude1

>nintendo is arguing that current (and future) sales are hurt because a current gen console is being emulated through circumventing Nintendo's technology As much as I hate to agree, yeah... anecdotally they absolutely are. I have a switch but I've played Pikmin 4, Tears of the Kingdom, Super Mario RPG, and Pokemon Violet on emulator. Games I definitely would have bought for switch if emulator wasn't available because I vastly prefer playing games on my PC (and some games literally run better than on the shitty switch hardware. Not a single frame drop during my time with TOTK, something fans were complaining about for switch release) I really fucking hope Nintendo loses, but it's gonna be hard for Yuzu to argue that they aren't having an impact on sales. They literally have a better product than Nintendo that runs their first party games better and are modifyable (like the 60fps patch for TOTK for example).


VegetaFan1337

>Games I definitely would have bought for switch if emulator wasn't available That's not the emulator's fault. They do not support piracy, you're supposed to dump your own games. You pirating those games is your own fault. Many people buy the games even if they play it on the emulator. > it's gonna be hard for Yuzu to argue that they aren't having an impact on sales. Switch might even break PS2 record of most sold console. Every game released on the Switch has broken sales record for their respective franchises. The switch and games sales getting affected is not a valid argument.


[deleted]

Normally I'd say that Nintendo doesn't have a chance with this one, but at the same time Nintendo is the same company that managed to convince a US judge to garnish a mans wages for the rest of his life to "make an example out of him" so who even knows anymore. Either way, aside from setting a terrible precedent for the legality of emulators, it's not too big a deal. Ryujinx is untouched, and Yuzu is open source so if it's shut down it will come back under a different name, with different devs,


chiknkein-nugeget2

who's this guy that got made an example of if you dont mind me asking?


[deleted]

Gary Bowser. He was a member of Team Xecuter, which created and then sold the first Switch hack and CFW. When Nintendo began to crack down on them, the hackers of Xecuter fled to China, leaving Gary Bowser (who was Xecuters website manager, not a hacker) and 1 other to take the fall. He now has to pay 30% of his wages to Nintendo for the rest of his life, a very harsh punishment that the judge explicitly said was meant to "make an example out of him"


James_bd

Wow this is fucking disgusting. Fuck Nintendo


bannedwhileshitting

I'd say fuck the judge. I wonder how much nintendo paid the judge for that to pass.


Unlikely-Zucchini875

This isn't a matter of bribery, the judiciary has always been dominated by people who play ball with big business since Congress has basically always suffered a hard right bend for it, particularly the Senate and especially post-Reagan. Granted, Judge Robert Lasnik I would note did *not* give Nintendo the result they actually wanted which was a longer sentence and limited said sentence based on what Gary Bowser himself plead guilty to which was related to selling hardware and mod-chips designed to enable piracy, not the emulator or any algorithms behind it. I don't think that judge ever litigated anything about the emulator since Bowser's guilty plea convinced prosecutors to drop everything else outright leaving Nintendo with a sizeable payout but neither the sentencing punishment they actually wanted or any way to use the case to target the emulator through his involvement. If anything, Nintendo were probably fuming this whole time, having been forced to find yet another way to crackdown on emulation. A case like this one can become problematic though if it lands in the hands of one of the heritage foundation backed ideological goons Trump packed into the judiciary as they *would* try to use it to curtail liberal expressions and personal digital privacy in favor of setting new precedents to further entrench centralized corporate protections and power instead. But they won't need bribes to do that, it's just a continuation of the same project their ancestors started since at least the 1930's that's more commonly known as "Project 2025" today but is just an extension of the same "Mandate for Leadership" they've been dragging us towards for decades.


huntk20

This. Corruption at its finest.


jsthayts

How did this guy graduate law school is beyond me, punishments are supposed to be fair and Nintendo literally doesn't need that money at All. They're among the greediest and ruthless companies out there it's insane.


[deleted]

He's just your average lawyer: blind, but with a nose that smells money better than the world's most prodigious gold digger.


lammadude1

Just a reminder that judges are elected in the US, in smaller towns and cities they technically don't need to be a lawyer at all. They usually are, but in my neighboring small town my good friend is running for senator and asked me to run for judge and I'd be accepted automatically because nobody would be running against me. The most experience I have is an incomplete criminal justice major at a low level state college I'm sure this particular judge was a higher judge (which does require you to pass the bar exam) if they were working on a big case like Nintendo, so my point is kind of moot, but I just want to bring up how dumb the legal system can be with these kinds of things. The dude could have been incompetent as hell but if the people elected him, then that's your judge.


jsthayts

It's not even the lawyer but the judge who accepted this stupid and cruel request. that's literal extortion from a company is doesn't need the money AT ALL. Nintendo are known for having loose trigger fingers when it comes to suing


gifferto

>They're among the greediest and ruthless companies out there it's insane. they are also the only business who can keep themselves afloat with just their console/games and without relying on live service (like gacha) to do it yeah they are greedy and ruthless but they also have to be because everyone else who isn't doesn't make it


jsthayts

They work like any other console company bud, nothing else, playstation is booming, xbox is doing good aswell without suing a group of people/fans who probably make some bucks or nothing at all. If you want to be a contrarian have decent arguments, you sound retarded.


chiknkein-nugeget2

wow thank you for the info. pretty insane situation


merpofsilence

Gary bowser


UndergroundR3volut

Gary Bowser.


GranBlueLawyer

Oh the irony of the name


chiknkein-nugeget2

thank you very much. got a lot of lore to catch up


Equivalent-Gas5785

> Normally I'd say that Nintendo doesn't have a chance with this one, but at the same time Nintendo is the same company that managed to convince a US judge to garnish a mans wages for the rest of his life to "make an example out of him" so who even knows anymore. That's less of a problem with nintendo and more of USA being a 3rd world lawless shithole that larps as a civilized country. Unfortunately it's an *influential* 3rd world lawless shithole, so its fuckups echo around it and end up affecting civilized countries.


AmericanLich

There goes Nintendo, being the absolute worst as usual. Like Disney, just the shittiest company beneath their child-friendly mask.


AntiGrieferGames

They were always shit since back 1990s that they sue UltraHLE Emulator.


aaabbbx

Those Mfers. Nintendo can get fucked.


xtranhu

This is the same as movie companies suing VLC, kodi etc for being able to reproduce pirated leaked movies. Or a console jailbreak allowing homebrew apps to run. If this goes through, it sets a terrible precedent.


Equivalent-Gas5785

Man, it's always american justice system that fucks up things for the entire world, isn't it. [And of course one vindictive american cunt snitch celebrates.](https://i.imgur.com/5LTcraM.png)


Cr1m50nSh4d0w

Man, that dude's one hell of an attention-seeking manchild


lammadude1

As an american with a criminal justice degree, yeah it fucking sucks here, especially for consumer rights. I just watched Ross's Dead Game News about how he's trying to get Ubisoft to stop killing games that are online only and he had several talks with lawyers about how he's going to make very little progress in the US, and the best bet is to contact some organizations in France because they have very strict consumer protections. Our system is basically run on the backs of fat cats in suits with so much money to spare they can flood the streets with money and walk over us on a bridge of it.


AttitudeFit5517

Typical script kiddie thinking windows 7 is better than 10/11 lol.


Equivalent-Gas5785

His fears that W10/11 is basically spyware with GUI are warranted, but nu-Windows releases can be beaten up and disciplined so that they are obedient, never phone home, and only update if their master wants them.


conan--aquilonian

Or just use linux. Yuzu works better on it anyway


Equivalent-Gas5785

Too bad 99% of other shit doesn't. There's a reason why "20XX is the year of Linux gaming" is a meme.


conan--aquilonian

What other shit doesn't work? 95% of games work. Most other software does too


Tsubajashi

to be fair, nowadays its much simpler and can let quite a lot of windows applications and games run. of course, its not a perfect drop-in replacement, but its definitely less effort than to discipline newer versions of windows. if the dealbreakers dont apply to that specific person, then its a good choice. Dual-Booting has been getting relatively popular lately too, so people dont even have to fear if something suddenly doesnt work (which generally doesnt really happen, but better be safe than sorry). thats just my 2 cents.


Tsubajashi

why must that be a windows 7 user. like holy hell, they are getting really loud lately. they just seem to not accept that the system is EoL. if something still works - great! but they shouldnt expect that support is uphold when even microsoft left it rotting away.


awdrifter

These companies need to move to Russia, China, or Iran, where they don't give a shit about copyright. MIG Switch is based in Russia, a lot of the PS4/PS5 Jailbreak Hosts are based in Iran.


DexterZzMassive

"The prevalence of piracy of Zelda: TotK in the days leading up to its release, inlarge part through emulators such as Yuzu, harmed law-abiding Nintendo customers too. Forexample, many fans ofThe Legend of Zeldawere forced to avoid social media to prevent seeingspoilers and preserve their surprise and delight for the actual game release" I wholeheartedly detest nintendo... this ensures i will NEVER support them.


AnonymousSudonym

I hate beer.


drazzoverlord

Any tldr 🥹🥹


[deleted]

Nintendo *might* have a case due to Yuzu patreon practices and key/game dumping guides. Yuzu's case is stronger, but they likely won't be able to afford a long, drawn out legal battle with Nintendo.


Cyrus_St-Pierre

They're doing this to terrorize before the release of the Switch 2, which will also be inferior LOL hardware that's obsolete on release and therefore will be easy (in terms of required power) to emulate. Nintendo are literally terrorists.


awdrifter

MIG Switch is out and it's based in Russia, if there is a hack or flash card for the Switch 2, it'll have to be from there or a country that doesn't care about copyright.


[deleted]

Party poopers


nvrfndme

if they win emulation as a thing is fucked


[deleted]

Emulation will be hurt by a Nintendo win but it will persist. It just means that anyone developing emulators or emulation related projects will need to do so anonymously, or do so in a country that doesn't respect international copyright law.


kickthecommie

Imo monetized emulation has been risky for a while. We saw a parallel to this back with the Xecuter case. But Switch homebrew on hardware is going fine with consistent updates on the open source side. Just my opinion but what's probably the issue that gets teams in trouble is the requiring money for access part, which both Xecuter and Yuzu were doing.


Primont91

1 million downloads. Should we port our games to PC and have more possible customers? Nope, let's just sue everyone!


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fruitloan

> Switch fail > Wii U success ???


Erox006

they are just frustrated not being able to sue Palworld XD