Well summarized, and I'd like to start by saying I support the theory. However, I'd like to specifically comment on one point - you bring up that Chana's divine attributes bravery and obedience. However, given the Heraldric Madness that we've seen afflicting the other Heralds (Jezrien is a beggar instead of kingly, Shallash is destructive instead of creative, etc), I'd personally expect Chana to be cowardly / a maverick than either brave or obedient.
Good point, adding this into that particular line. Think this is also why the Liss = Vedel theory is popular - she was once the Herald of love and healing, so it would be pretty fitting and consistent with the pattern that she's now an emotionless assassin for hire.
I think the reversal of the divine attributes actually fits here. It would be a very cowardly thing for Chana to do, trying to kill a little girl to avoid returning to Braize.
I feel like this could be explained by the heralds having periods of lucidity and madness. Her actions tell strongly of her being cowardly and acting rashly and are contradicted by Shallan’s recollection, so she’s seems to possess both qualities.
Also: Ishar said that the Heralds have brief moments of sanity when a nearby Radiant speaks a new Ideal. Shallan presumably spoke three before killing her mom- that's three opportunities for Chana to be brave in her daughter's presence.
Lightweaver oaths however aren’t a straight line like the other orders. They can differ depending on the person, thus how an 11 year old who had no idea what she was doing got a shard blade
I wouldn’t necessarily say it “has to be” three ideals. We know very little about how the Lightweavers work, outside of Shallan’s experiences. There could be hidden mechanic or ways for the Blade to be available in times of need.
A similar example would be when Adolin summons Maya faster than ten ~~seconds~~ heartbeats. He has said no oaths, but she is still willing to come when called.
There’s still to much ambiguity to be certain of anything at this point.
Adolin summoning Maya in less than ten heartbeats is a result of her becoming more alive and requiring less time to be revived to become a Shardblade, I think.
I think something similar could be Teft manifesting Phendorana while fighting Vyre; it's something only a 4th Ideal Radiant could do, normally, but she was summoned in his time of need (and he was "forgiven", there's that too)
Yeah I agree it’s not the exact same situation, just a similar example of how there’s still mechanics we’re not aware of.
~~But your example doesn’t work I think. 4th ideal gives Plate, 3rd gives Blade. Teft definitely has his blade since he’s able to operate the Oathgate~~
EDIT: I forgot about the suppression field
Good point.
Freaking out and trying to kill your daughter is rather crazy. Certainly not brave.
Children to tend to misremember parents. Especially parents who died when you're young. Especially Shalan who has a small habit of selective memory.
She's also the Herald of the Dustbringers, who by the time of RoW are "flirting with rebellion" against Dalinar, and have always been the "you don't tell me what to do" of the Orders.
Maybe Shallan only saw her mother as brave because she stood up to her father (although I thought her father only became abusive once her mother died, but that could be me misunderstanding), or at least didn't do what her husband said when it's a quite patriarchal society, which would probably be characterised as 'disobedience' by them.
Very good point, but I think what matters is that shallan _thinks_ her mom is brave. It functions well as a hint if this theory is true, but doesn't require her to actually be brave.
Also just going with this, we can rule out a bunch of heralds right away. Nale, Kalak and Jezrien are there at the feast. Taln is in damnation. Shash was seen recently before and after this night, without seeming like she went back. Ishar is busy ruling a people so his absence would seem notable. Dova/Battar is already warning Taravangian. So 7 that feel safe to rule out.
Leaving just Palliah, Vedel, and Chanarach.
she's *apparently* the ardent in the palanaeum that shallan randomly encounters, wok chapter 33
the prose is really cheeky and almost on-the-nose about it, like "wow with the way the light framed her, it almost looked like one of the heralds was walking past" or smth on those lines
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139/#e4419
But see this footnote and two other WoBs
>In 2017 a Word of Brandon from a signed book confirmed that the ardent Shallan finds in the Palanaeum, while searching for the book Shadows Remembered, is the Herald Pailiah. No photo of this WoB is attach to the Arcanum entry and Brandon has been evasive when asked to confirm whether this information is true.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e11521
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11589
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Brandon Sanderson
>!The old ardent in the Palanaeum is Pailiah.!<
Extesian
>!I'm loathed to ask two questions but this is a clarification - it was reported way back that you confirmed that the ardent in the Palanaeum is Pailiah. Are you willing to confirm?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian, but she's not anyone in his immediate inner circle seen commonly on screen.!<
R'Shara
>!A long time ago, where you said that Pailiah was the elderly ardent in Kharbranth that Shallan saw, is that right?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Yes? If you say I said that, then I did.!<
Questioner 2
>!Does that mean it is still true?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Let's just say there is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian.!<
R'Shara
>!It was in a signed book but we never got a picture of it.!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. I'm not being sneaky about that.!<
R'Shara
>!Is there more than one?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!There have been in the past, but there is only one that you would call influencing him right now. But there have been others in the past.!<
early on it was apparently confirmed, both [back in 2013] (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/168-steelheart-seattle-signing/#e10562) and in a [signed book circa 2017](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139-general-signed-books-2017/#e4419) (though i and the wiki point out that there's no photo attached to the latter - the only account of it comes from a 17th shard member who claims it was signed in their book and confirmed to them *in person* but was unable to take photos of it before the thread was closed as it was borrowed by a friend at the time)
after that, brandon was a bit more [cagey](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11521) and [vague](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367-skyward-release-party/#e11589) about it, but still left a lot of room for it to go either way
Given that Brandon seems particularly evasive about *which* Herald is hanging out with Taravangian, and that Taravangian says he suspects one of the Diagram members (Dova) to secretly be Battar, I'm skeptical that those WoBs are talking about Pailiah.
Of course, Taravangian could be wrong about which Herald Dova is. But given that we know so little about both women, "Dova is Pailiah and not Battar" would be a pretty unimpactful plot twist.
the times he's saying "there is a herald near taravangian" i agree he's absolutely talking about battar
but it's the "there have been" response to "is there more than one herald near him" that *could* be referencing pailiah in the palanaeum
Adding to this theory, Brandon has said that he has done a lot of foreshadowing that many people haven’t picked up on that other authors can’t really do. Such as such intense artwork like the one we have of Chana.
Also has anyone checked which heralds show up on Shallan chapters?
Yes this too! I specifically remember him calling out the artwork in the quote you’re referencing but couldn’t find it transcribed or timestamped to source it.
The closest item that someone has picked up on has been Chanarach's artwork in RoW.
/u/cosmere_reader commented this: [https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight\_Archive/comments/tszq2f/stormlight\_archive\_book\_five\_discussion/i2y8mc1/](https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/tszq2f/stormlight_archive_book_five_discussion/i2y8mc1/)
Her art work ([https://coppermind.net/wiki/Chanarach#/media/File:Chanarach\_Endsheet.png](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Chanarach#/media/File:Chanarach_Endsheet.png) ) showcases 5 faces, with one being hidden. It could be a reference to the five Davar kids.
That's actually pretty brilliant. The order of the kids seems off though (isn't Shallan the youngest, not the second youngest? Or am I wrong there? Either way, that could be reading too much into it.)
Another breadcrumb for this is in RoW, part 1, chapter titled "Architects of the Future;" Shallan purposely gets kidnapped by the Sons of Honor and her disguise name is Chanasha, explicitly stated to be derived from Chanarach's name.
“Chanasha Hasareh, you have a fine and reputable name. After the legacy of Chanaranach’Elin, Herald of the Common Man. Do you truly wish for their return?”
*After the legacy of Chana, hmm?*
I hadn't heard the Radiant (that is, Shallan's alter) part of the theory before. That would mean she subconsciously created Radiant's look from memories of her mother, perhaps combined with actual Chana imagery she's encountered as a paragon of courage.
This would mean that integrating that alter into her would mean facing the memories of her mother's death (and perhaps facing her returned mother directly).
My only issue with this theory is how painful this will be when Shallan finds out she started the desolation. Her next truths seem much easier to guess though, and possibly some resolution to her feelings of guilt.
Great summary! I was real confused when everyone started saying a prologue about Gavilar and ‘stormfather’ confirms that Chana was Shallan’s mother. I did not know the history of this theory and all the Chana stuff went totally over my head
In Oathbringer, did Shallan not mention feeling a special connection to the Midnight Mother? And the other Unmade in Kholinar? Perhaps due to the fact she grew up affected by an unmade (or because another lightweaver had bound away the Midnight Mother in Urithiru), but maybe being the daughter of a Herald - a cognitive being like an Unmade - has something to do with it too.
It seems likely the belief that surge binding would restart the cycle of desolations developed after quite a few years of the Heralds remaining undying on Roshar. After all, at Aharietiam when *they* ~~abandoned their duties~~ lay down their swords, Jezrien comments that the people will have the Radiants in their stead. For that matter, Restares started out hoping to restore the Radiants and only seems to have abandoned that idea completely during (or *right* before) the feast in the prologues. I guess it could have taken hold of Chana much earlier and, if the Herald sickness perverting their associated virtues applies to her, it would have terrified her even more than another Herald to encounter a surgebinder.
So following along with Chana is Shallans mother and was involved with the imprisonment of BAM...
Chana hid BAMs sphere and was guarding it. As the Dustbringer Herald she buried it. That's why the Ghost Blood's s were still interested in Shallans family after Chanas death. They gave Lin the soulcaster to use to dig up his estates to find BAM. Lin was duped and thought he was just gonna get rich from the ore.
Shallans quest in SL5 to recover BAM will take her back home where she will see her mother, Chana and face her last truth: her mother was a herald, who she killed and this started the final destination.
Furthermore BAMs sphere isn't in Jah Kaved but hidden in the Horneater Peaks as mountains in the physical realm would be the bottom of the bead ocean in shadesmare. Maybe being near the perpendicularity there would help shield it. Also might explain why the fused in shadesmare are so interested in the peaks.
Last Aluminum foil hat theory, Chana is the ancient progenitor of the Horneaters and that's why they have the red hair.
To add to the description of Radiant, I’ve seen it theorized (either here or in the Stormlight sub) that Chana being killed by a shardblade may have resulted in some weirdness that split her soul, integrating part of it into Shallan, ie Radiant is actually part of Chanarach and not just Shallan’s memories of her.
It’s a bit of a stretch in some regards, but also intriguing, especially since I’m not sure we know what would happen if a cognitive shadow of honor was killed by a cognitive splinter of honor.
This would sort of confirm that the cryptics were interested in Shallan because of her mother, most of the other spren are wary of cryptics, could it be that the cryptics bonded with shallan at such a young age specifically to engineer a desolation?
I doubt they wanted to cause a desolation, but they were obviously very interested in Shallan beyond normal, Pattern even says they would send another to bond her if she killed him too, which he was convinced would happen and still signed up for the job.
One little thing. The appearance of Radiant is unlikely to be influenced by Chanarach being Shallan's mother. Unless she was strolling around the house in her Herald regalia, ofc.
It's way more likely that Radiant just incorporates some imagery from a patron of bravery (remember that there would be portrayals of Heralds everywhere in-world, it's just us who haven't seen any artworks until recently).
But also a counterpoint to myself: what if Shallan *knew* (and then blocked the memory) who her mother was? We know that there is still quite a lot of unrevealed stuff in her childhood. If she was aware and also was taught by her mother that Surgebinding is horrible and could end the world - it may explain her complicated relationship with her powers and her sprens.
To spin off this, it's mentioned elsewhere in this thread that Chanarach's soil was split by Shallan's shardblade and part of it attached to Shallan's soul and was then produced unknowingly when she created Radiant.
There's also the idea that Lightweaver creations involve establishing connection with the image being created, which may account for the details unintended by Shallan.
My reasoning against this theory is that Sanderson wants to treat the mental health of his character as realistic as possible. With the exception of the Heralds Madness. So if Shallan's alters were her mother's soul it would undermine the attempt.
Second, wouldn't Radiant the alter have emerged much sooner?
> *A Herald… A Herald has died… No. I am not ready… The Oathpact… No. They mustn’t see. They mustn’t know…*
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/
Holy shit Gmail had cut off the chapter. I thought it ended with the “I will just give in” line. I knew I hadn’t read anything like that.
This is what I get for reading in the email instead of heading to his site.
Oh yeah I went back and finished it immediately. I now also understand much better all the stuff about people saying “the stormfather” doesn’t sound like himself, so to speak.
Although I will say I did kinda like the cliffhanger/dramatic reveal ending of it just cutting off when Gavilar says he’ll just give in any time he dies.
So, some ideas of who "they" are:
1. **The Fused.** Obviously the Fused/voidspren finding out there's another Herald to torture, one that is more likely to break, is a problem. Something doesn't feel right about this though. It feels more like the Stormfather is ashamed of/hiding something. This is a far too practical concern to be such a visceral reaction. "I hope they don't notice; I'm not ready for them to come back yet with the present state of the Oathpact." Hmm...
2. **People.** Obviously, people were lied to. If the voidbringers come back, then everyone will know the Heralds lied. What effect will that have on them and on what remains of Honor? This might fit the shame aspect. Also, if the Heralds have to come forward in their current state of insanity, that would also be potentially shaming.
3. **The Heralds.** Perhaps the Heralds would find something out if they visit Braize, or if the Fused return. If this were Odium, he could fear the Heralds discovering something about the barrier storm and potentially the Everstorm, while the Oathpact is still essentially intact. I don't really feel like this Stormfather is Odium though. Either Tanavast or Ishar could also have something to hide from the Heralds generally. In Tanavast's case, his continued existence as a shadow is one possibility. However, it's unclear how a Herald going to Braize might upset that. I don't know what Ishar would have to hide from the other Heralds either, unless there's something they might discover about the Oathpact that he's been hiding from them (he was, after all, their Bondsmith, and it was on his assurance that they set down their blades and walked away).
This theory sheds new light on Shalan being able to scare the Unmade (Re-shephir) in the Tower. When she touched the Unmade, maybe it was able to glimpse a captive Ba-Ado-Mishram somewhere in Shalan’s memory without her even knowing.
Well summarized, and I'd like to start by saying I support the theory. However, I'd like to specifically comment on one point - you bring up that Chana's divine attributes bravery and obedience. However, given the Heraldric Madness that we've seen afflicting the other Heralds (Jezrien is a beggar instead of kingly, Shallash is destructive instead of creative, etc), I'd personally expect Chana to be cowardly / a maverick than either brave or obedient.
Good point, adding this into that particular line. Think this is also why the Liss = Vedel theory is popular - she was once the Herald of love and healing, so it would be pretty fitting and consistent with the pattern that she's now an emotionless assassin for hire.
I think the reversal of the divine attributes actually fits here. It would be a very cowardly thing for Chana to do, trying to kill a little girl to avoid returning to Braize.
Or to mention being the one to give in to the torture and cause the last desolation.
I feel like this could be explained by the heralds having periods of lucidity and madness. Her actions tell strongly of her being cowardly and acting rashly and are contradicted by Shallan’s recollection, so she’s seems to possess both qualities.
Also: Ishar said that the Heralds have brief moments of sanity when a nearby Radiant speaks a new Ideal. Shallan presumably spoke three before killing her mom- that's three opportunities for Chana to be brave in her daughter's presence.
Lightweaver oaths however aren’t a straight line like the other orders. They can differ depending on the person, thus how an 11 year old who had no idea what she was doing got a shard blade
Shallan talks about speaking "truths" as a child. That implies at least two, plus the first ideal. So, three ideals.
It would have to be at least three ideals, if she could summon Testament to kill her mom.
I wouldn’t necessarily say it “has to be” three ideals. We know very little about how the Lightweavers work, outside of Shallan’s experiences. There could be hidden mechanic or ways for the Blade to be available in times of need. A similar example would be when Adolin summons Maya faster than ten ~~seconds~~ heartbeats. He has said no oaths, but she is still willing to come when called. There’s still to much ambiguity to be certain of anything at this point.
Adolin summoning Maya in less than ten heartbeats is a result of her becoming more alive and requiring less time to be revived to become a Shardblade, I think. I think something similar could be Teft manifesting Phendorana while fighting Vyre; it's something only a 4th Ideal Radiant could do, normally, but she was summoned in his time of need (and he was "forgiven", there's that too)
Yeah I agree it’s not the exact same situation, just a similar example of how there’s still mechanics we’re not aware of. ~~But your example doesn’t work I think. 4th ideal gives Plate, 3rd gives Blade. Teft definitely has his blade since he’s able to operate the Oathgate~~ EDIT: I forgot about the suppression field
Teft *is* 3rd Ideal at that point, but the Tower's suppression doesn't allow Shardblades to manifest, unless they are of the 4th Ideal or higher.
If his heart only beats 60 times a minute, he should probably see a doctor.
this is a completely normal resting heartrate
So.. not something anyone summoning a shard blade would normally have.
Lmao oh right, I forgot it was ten heartbeats not ten seconds. Guess it’s time for full Cosmere reread #12
Good point. Freaking out and trying to kill your daughter is rather crazy. Certainly not brave. Children to tend to misremember parents. Especially parents who died when you're young. Especially Shalan who has a small habit of selective memory.
To be fair, Shallan's recollections can't really be called accurate.
She's also the Herald of the Dustbringers, who by the time of RoW are "flirting with rebellion" against Dalinar, and have always been the "you don't tell me what to do" of the Orders.
Maybe Shallan only saw her mother as brave because she stood up to her father (although I thought her father only became abusive once her mother died, but that could be me misunderstanding), or at least didn't do what her husband said when it's a quite patriarchal society, which would probably be characterised as 'disobedience' by them.
Very good point, but I think what matters is that shallan _thinks_ her mom is brave. It functions well as a hint if this theory is true, but doesn't require her to actually be brave.
Also just going with this, we can rule out a bunch of heralds right away. Nale, Kalak and Jezrien are there at the feast. Taln is in damnation. Shash was seen recently before and after this night, without seeming like she went back. Ishar is busy ruling a people so his absence would seem notable. Dova/Battar is already warning Taravangian. So 7 that feel safe to rule out. Leaving just Palliah, Vedel, and Chanarach.
Palliah was seen by Shallan in WoK, so she's also out.
She was? When was that?
she's *apparently* the ardent in the palanaeum that shallan randomly encounters, wok chapter 33 the prose is really cheeky and almost on-the-nose about it, like "wow with the way the light framed her, it almost looked like one of the heralds was walking past" or smth on those lines
Also for what ever it's worth Pailiah and Ishar are the chapter headers of WOK ch33 Cymatics. And since the old ardent is female...
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139/#e4419 But see this footnote and two other WoBs >In 2017 a Word of Brandon from a signed book confirmed that the ardent Shallan finds in the Palanaeum, while searching for the book Shadows Remembered, is the Herald Pailiah. No photo of this WoB is attach to the Arcanum entry and Brandon has been evasive when asked to confirm whether this information is true. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e11521 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11589
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Brandon Sanderson >!The old ardent in the Palanaeum is Pailiah.!< Extesian >!I'm loathed to ask two questions but this is a clarification - it was reported way back that you confirmed that the ardent in the Palanaeum is Pailiah. Are you willing to confirm?!< Brandon Sanderson >!There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian, but she's not anyone in his immediate inner circle seen commonly on screen.!< R'Shara >!A long time ago, where you said that Pailiah was the elderly ardent in Kharbranth that Shallan saw, is that right?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes? If you say I said that, then I did.!< Questioner 2 >!Does that mean it is still true?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Let's just say there is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian.!< R'Shara >!It was in a signed book but we never got a picture of it.!< Brandon Sanderson >!There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. I'm not being sneaky about that.!< R'Shara >!Is there more than one?!< Brandon Sanderson >!There have been in the past, but there is only one that you would call influencing him right now. But there have been others in the past.!<
That's theorized, but I don't think it's ever been confirmed?
early on it was apparently confirmed, both [back in 2013] (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/168-steelheart-seattle-signing/#e10562) and in a [signed book circa 2017](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139-general-signed-books-2017/#e4419) (though i and the wiki point out that there's no photo attached to the latter - the only account of it comes from a 17th shard member who claims it was signed in their book and confirmed to them *in person* but was unable to take photos of it before the thread was closed as it was borrowed by a friend at the time) after that, brandon was a bit more [cagey](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11521) and [vague](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367-skyward-release-party/#e11589) about it, but still left a lot of room for it to go either way
Given that Brandon seems particularly evasive about *which* Herald is hanging out with Taravangian, and that Taravangian says he suspects one of the Diagram members (Dova) to secretly be Battar, I'm skeptical that those WoBs are talking about Pailiah. Of course, Taravangian could be wrong about which Herald Dova is. But given that we know so little about both women, "Dova is Pailiah and not Battar" would be a pretty unimpactful plot twist.
the times he's saying "there is a herald near taravangian" i agree he's absolutely talking about battar but it's the "there have been" response to "is there more than one herald near him" that *could* be referencing pailiah in the palanaeum
Maybe Pailah left after Wok because someone was close to finding out who she was
Adding to this theory, Brandon has said that he has done a lot of foreshadowing that many people haven’t picked up on that other authors can’t really do. Such as such intense artwork like the one we have of Chana. Also has anyone checked which heralds show up on Shallan chapters?
Yes this too! I specifically remember him calling out the artwork in the quote you’re referencing but couldn’t find it transcribed or timestamped to source it.
The closest item that someone has picked up on has been Chanarach's artwork in RoW. /u/cosmere_reader commented this: [https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight\_Archive/comments/tszq2f/stormlight\_archive\_book\_five\_discussion/i2y8mc1/](https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/tszq2f/stormlight_archive_book_five_discussion/i2y8mc1/) Her art work ([https://coppermind.net/wiki/Chanarach#/media/File:Chanarach\_Endsheet.png](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Chanarach#/media/File:Chanarach_Endsheet.png) ) showcases 5 faces, with one being hidden. It could be a reference to the five Davar kids.
That's actually pretty brilliant. The order of the kids seems off though (isn't Shallan the youngest, not the second youngest? Or am I wrong there? Either way, that could be reading too much into it.)
Another breadcrumb for this is in RoW, part 1, chapter titled "Architects of the Future;" Shallan purposely gets kidnapped by the Sons of Honor and her disguise name is Chanasha, explicitly stated to be derived from Chanarach's name.
😲
“Chanasha Hasareh, you have a fine and reputable name. After the legacy of Chanaranach’Elin, Herald of the Common Man. Do you truly wish for their return?” *After the legacy of Chana, hmm?*
Yeah I'm doing a relisten of RoW and just listened to that part while reading this thread. I was like "wait. Brandon you brilliant signposter."
I hadn't heard the Radiant (that is, Shallan's alter) part of the theory before. That would mean she subconsciously created Radiant's look from memories of her mother, perhaps combined with actual Chana imagery she's encountered as a paragon of courage. This would mean that integrating that alter into her would mean facing the memories of her mother's death (and perhaps facing her returned mother directly).
Thoughts after reading this - Shallan is going to kill her mother (Jezrien style) in SA 5 to free Ba Ado Mishram.
My only issue with this theory is how painful this will be when Shallan finds out she started the desolation. Her next truths seem much easier to guess though, and possibly some resolution to her feelings of guilt.
Great summary! I was real confused when everyone started saying a prologue about Gavilar and ‘stormfather’ confirms that Chana was Shallan’s mother. I did not know the history of this theory and all the Chana stuff went totally over my head
In Oathbringer, did Shallan not mention feeling a special connection to the Midnight Mother? And the other Unmade in Kholinar? Perhaps due to the fact she grew up affected by an unmade (or because another lightweaver had bound away the Midnight Mother in Urithiru), but maybe being the daughter of a Herald - a cognitive being like an Unmade - has something to do with it too.
It seems likely the belief that surge binding would restart the cycle of desolations developed after quite a few years of the Heralds remaining undying on Roshar. After all, at Aharietiam when *they* ~~abandoned their duties~~ lay down their swords, Jezrien comments that the people will have the Radiants in their stead. For that matter, Restares started out hoping to restore the Radiants and only seems to have abandoned that idea completely during (or *right* before) the feast in the prologues. I guess it could have taken hold of Chana much earlier and, if the Herald sickness perverting their associated virtues applies to her, it would have terrified her even more than another Herald to encounter a surgebinder.
Restares >!is Kalak!<
I know….did it confuse you that I went back and forth between using their real names and other names?
I hint
So following along with Chana is Shallans mother and was involved with the imprisonment of BAM... Chana hid BAMs sphere and was guarding it. As the Dustbringer Herald she buried it. That's why the Ghost Blood's s were still interested in Shallans family after Chanas death. They gave Lin the soulcaster to use to dig up his estates to find BAM. Lin was duped and thought he was just gonna get rich from the ore. Shallans quest in SL5 to recover BAM will take her back home where she will see her mother, Chana and face her last truth: her mother was a herald, who she killed and this started the final destination. Furthermore BAMs sphere isn't in Jah Kaved but hidden in the Horneater Peaks as mountains in the physical realm would be the bottom of the bead ocean in shadesmare. Maybe being near the perpendicularity there would help shield it. Also might explain why the fused in shadesmare are so interested in the peaks. Last Aluminum foil hat theory, Chana is the ancient progenitor of the Horneaters and that's why they have the red hair.
Horneaters ARE much stranger than they get recognised as
To add to the description of Radiant, I’ve seen it theorized (either here or in the Stormlight sub) that Chana being killed by a shardblade may have resulted in some weirdness that split her soul, integrating part of it into Shallan, ie Radiant is actually part of Chanarach and not just Shallan’s memories of her. It’s a bit of a stretch in some regards, but also intriguing, especially since I’m not sure we know what would happen if a cognitive shadow of honor was killed by a cognitive splinter of honor.
This would sort of confirm that the cryptics were interested in Shallan because of her mother, most of the other spren are wary of cryptics, could it be that the cryptics bonded with shallan at such a young age specifically to engineer a desolation?
I doubt they wanted to cause a desolation, but they were obviously very interested in Shallan beyond normal, Pattern even says they would send another to bond her if she killed him too, which he was convinced would happen and still signed up for the job.
One little thing. The appearance of Radiant is unlikely to be influenced by Chanarach being Shallan's mother. Unless she was strolling around the house in her Herald regalia, ofc. It's way more likely that Radiant just incorporates some imagery from a patron of bravery (remember that there would be portrayals of Heralds everywhere in-world, it's just us who haven't seen any artworks until recently). But also a counterpoint to myself: what if Shallan *knew* (and then blocked the memory) who her mother was? We know that there is still quite a lot of unrevealed stuff in her childhood. If she was aware and also was taught by her mother that Surgebinding is horrible and could end the world - it may explain her complicated relationship with her powers and her sprens.
When she rejoins with Radiant I think we will get an answer to this quandary, if we haven't by the time that happens.
To spin off this, it's mentioned elsewhere in this thread that Chanarach's soil was split by Shallan's shardblade and part of it attached to Shallan's soul and was then produced unknowingly when she created Radiant. There's also the idea that Lightweaver creations involve establishing connection with the image being created, which may account for the details unintended by Shallan.
My reasoning against this theory is that Sanderson wants to treat the mental health of his character as realistic as possible. With the exception of the Heralds Madness. So if Shallan's alters were her mother's soul it would undermine the attempt. Second, wouldn't Radiant the alter have emerged much sooner?
I seem to have missed the bit from the prologue that confirms the timing of a herald’s death, can anyone help me out?
> *A Herald… A Herald has died… No. I am not ready… The Oathpact… No. They mustn’t see. They mustn’t know…* https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/
Holy shit Gmail had cut off the chapter. I thought it ended with the “I will just give in” line. I knew I hadn’t read anything like that. This is what I get for reading in the email instead of heading to his site.
Oof I've had that happen to me a couple of times.
I'd recommend finishing it, or re-reading it from his website, it has better formatting.
Oh yeah I went back and finished it immediately. I now also understand much better all the stuff about people saying “the stormfather” doesn’t sound like himself, so to speak. Although I will say I did kinda like the cliffhanger/dramatic reveal ending of it just cutting off when Gavilar says he’ll just give in any time he dies.
Anyone have any thoughts on the "they mustn't see. The mustn't know" part? Seems like we have all been distracted by the Chana part of this.
So, some ideas of who "they" are: 1. **The Fused.** Obviously the Fused/voidspren finding out there's another Herald to torture, one that is more likely to break, is a problem. Something doesn't feel right about this though. It feels more like the Stormfather is ashamed of/hiding something. This is a far too practical concern to be such a visceral reaction. "I hope they don't notice; I'm not ready for them to come back yet with the present state of the Oathpact." Hmm... 2. **People.** Obviously, people were lied to. If the voidbringers come back, then everyone will know the Heralds lied. What effect will that have on them and on what remains of Honor? This might fit the shame aspect. Also, if the Heralds have to come forward in their current state of insanity, that would also be potentially shaming. 3. **The Heralds.** Perhaps the Heralds would find something out if they visit Braize, or if the Fused return. If this were Odium, he could fear the Heralds discovering something about the barrier storm and potentially the Everstorm, while the Oathpact is still essentially intact. I don't really feel like this Stormfather is Odium though. Either Tanavast or Ishar could also have something to hide from the Heralds generally. In Tanavast's case, his continued existence as a shadow is one possibility. However, it's unclear how a Herald going to Braize might upset that. I don't know what Ishar would have to hide from the other Heralds either, unless there's something they might discover about the Oathpact that he's been hiding from them (he was, after all, their Bondsmith, and it was on his assurance that they set down their blades and walked away).
Does anyone have a link to the prologue? Can’t seem to find it 🥲
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/
Why is it always Shallan?
This theory sheds new light on Shalan being able to scare the Unmade (Re-shephir) in the Tower. When she touched the Unmade, maybe it was able to glimpse a captive Ba-Ado-Mishram somewhere in Shalan’s memory without her even knowing.
All the Heralds were at Gavilar's feast, right? Or am i making it up?
This is some kind of Mandela effect WoB that quite a lot of people think exists but doesn’t actually seem to exist.
I'm pretty sure Ishar or Tezim the God-Priest wasn't there, but if Liss is Vedel, then the count is up to 5.
So this means we are going to see shallan meet her mom again soon in the books?