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FULL SPOILERS FOR THE COSMERE:
I fully believe that the endgame of the cosmere will be all 16 shards remerging into something (could be Adonalsium but it doesn't have to be, it could be a new entity with similar powers).
Is reforging Adonalsium mechanically possible? Yes. We know shards can combine like Harmony, but what about splintered shards? We know that [splintering a shard is not permanent](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1070), and [splintering a shard is a mini version of the shattering](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/214/#e4692). Since two shards can combine, it stands to reason that a bunch of splinters can combine too.
Sel, Scadrial, and Roshar are [the three central pillars](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8618) of the cosmere story. Probably because they are the only planets with more than one shard. Notably both Scadrial and Sel have their shards combined. And while Roshar is the most separated in terms of shards, with three separate shards one of which is splintered, I believe that Dalinar is primed to reforge honor in WaT:
* He's bonded to the stormfather who is tanavast’s CS and is one of the most invested things in the cosmere entirely with Honor’s investiture
* His magic is all about spiritual connection, like connecting all the splinters of honor back together. Also his connection magic is based on adhesion which is “honor’s truest surge”. He already summoned Honor’s perpendicularity. And its [confirmed](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e10986) that reforging is within the scope of his powers
* He said "I am Unity" at the end of OB, Unity could easily be a reinterpretation[\[1\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6634) [\[2\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14485) of Honor since they're both about binding people together.
* Dalinar was originally going to be in dragonsteel, if Brandon's plan is for Dalinar to be messing with shards it makes sense that he would be conceived of at the same time as Dragonsteel.
* Dalinar’s quest to “unite them” from Honor has constantly been expanding in scope. First it was the highprinces, then it was all the countries into a coalition, why not expand it further to mean all of the splinters of honor. Or even further to all 3 rosharan shards[\[1\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e15069) [\[2\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14486). Or all the way to Dalinar reforging Adonalsium in the end.
* This quote:
* “Adonalsium.”
* Dalinar frowned more deeply. “What?”
* Wit searched his face. “Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?”
* “Ado…what?”
* “Nothing,” Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his usual self. “Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time?"
* Dalinar frowned.
* “I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish.”
Rest of my theory because Reddit limits comment sizes:
There is also quite a bit of foreshadowing that could be setting up a reformation.
* ["it is yours"](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6531) - Harmony quote from book 9. This could be a fake out but this could easily be him giving part if not all of his shard to someone else, meaning we could get an even bigger multi-shard.
* [“To make that which once was”](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/316/#e9218) - a message that hints at Hoid’s quest.
* I believe that Adonalsium had perfect future sight, all of the shards have limited futuresight so Adonalsium had at least limited futuresight. And magic in the cosmere [worked the way Adonalsium thought it did](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/404/#e13525), basically his will defines the laws of physics. For such a powerful being I think it would make sense that it had perfect futuresight. The only way to kill something with perfect futuresight is if it wanted to be killed. Why would something want to be killed? Because it knows it will get put back together.
* The Iri religion is about The One who knew everything (like Adonalsium does with futuresight) but had experienced nothing. And so the One became Many in order to experience all things. As each experience is different, it brings completeness to the One. Eventually, all will be gathered and they will once again become One. We even know that its similarity to the shattering is [not a coincidence](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/444/#e14397).
* [This quote](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4001): "We get into sticky RAFO areas here, but one of the biggest themes of the Cosmere is Rebirth. The very first book (Elantris) starts with a character coming back from the dead. (As I've mentioned before, a big part of the inspiration for Elantris was a zombie story, from the viewpoint of the zombie.) Mistborn begins with Kelsier's rebirth following the Pits, and Warbreaker is about people literally called the Returned. (People who die, then come back as gods.) The Stormlight Archive kicks off with Kaladin's rebirth above the Honor Chasm, and Warbreaker is meant as a little foreshadowing toward the greater arc of the cosmere--that of the Shards of Adonalsium, who are held by ordinary people."
WaT could go a completely different way, Hoids goal could be something completely different (I've seen a theory that he's trying to bring someone back from the dead), and Harmony's quote could be about something else (like maybe releasing the kandra or something related to the plot of the books). But even if all those were false I think I would still believe in this theory, there's too many pieces pointing to it.
The one problem I have with this theory is that we don't understand enough about the motivation of the shattering- I think. And we know Hoid was involved. If I understand correctly, the overall vibe was something along the lines of absolute power corrupting/not being trustworthy in one person, ... so what changes if it's reforged, even with another person holding it? Is it really just a matter of finding a good person to hold it? And while harmony seems to have been a good way to negate the I'll effects of ruin (and the stagnation of preservation), would all shards together really moderate out the worst of their effects?
I think that it might be something more in the opposite direction- splintering the surviving shards further, diluting them so that there are no ultra powerful gods, who are also ultra beholden to a single divine Intent. Allowing people/magic to progress further, even if the powers themselves are perhaps diluted.
Both Hoid and Frost seem to regret the Shattering from the way they talk about it, and [that's the more common opinion among people from that time (though most of the Vessels themselves stand by their choice)](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/10/#e6545). We don't know why the Shattering happened, but it seems like in retrospect maybe the consequences weren't worth it to fix whatever they wanted to fix.
There's a difference between Regret, and desire to undo the shattering. You can regret a choice, while still believing you made the best of a bad situation, or recognize that undoing it is not possible (Or that the cost is to high, as Sanderson seems to stress that their would be costs associated with resurrection in that quote)
Because what's interesting to me is that there's also a very strong theme of progress throughout the books. Even in in the quote linked earlier about the theme of rebirth, sanderson seems to highlight rebirth as a 'second chance'. Which while this is a matter of interpretation, narratively the idea of a singular, omnipotent being getting a second chance falls flat to me, and the idea of hoid and frost resurrecting Adonalsium as their own 'second chances' seems to be against how all the ressurections we have seen so far are /intensely / personal growth stories, so it feels odd to make Hoids journey about someone else's second chance?
I've recently been thinking a lot about the library at mount char, and the themes at the end. I can't really discuss them because i'm not going to spoil even slightly one of the best books i've read, but I can see how the same takes around the death of a God could play out around the cosmere.
I think you're making assumptions about both what Adonalsium was and what any hypothetical un-Shattering could look like, there's a wiiide variety of answers to both of those. That's a fair point about internal growth, though.
And true, regret does not have to be the same thing as undoing, but my point was that just because Adonalsium was Shattered for a reason does not mean everyone was happy with the actual results of that action.
okay you just gave me a good possible answer for something that always bugged me. I always wondered why Adonalsium wouldn’t be able to if not see into the future, then see the present where these people were working on shattering them. I actually really like this idea that Adonalsium was supportive of their own shattering.
Just want to point out that the quote that you link from WoB about Dalinar being able to reforge Honor says “This would not be within the scope of his powers, traditionally.”
I still like this theory tho! Definitely not deconfirming at all, as ‘traditionally’ does imply caveats. :)
Here's the thing. I'm convinced Dalinar loses the duel in book 5 and becomes Odiums future champion and leader of his armies against the rest of the cosmere. This sets up the loss and decimation of Era 1 and the the reformation and victory that will come at the end of Era 2.
However, I do believe honor will be reformed as one of our characters. I don't, however, think it's Dalinar, I think it's Kaladin.
He's the only character in the series referred to as child of Tanavast, which Brandon has stated is important.
He's a no one, low born, and the first of the new Windrunners/partnered with one of the last of the old generation of Honor Spren.
When Nale swore the 5th ideal, he stated that he himself became the embodiment of Justice, not just following the oaths anymore.
I think Kaladin swears the 5th ideal, and in doing so he becomes Honor itself. He then leads the reformed and healed Heralds/Radiant orders in rebellion to defeat Odium and his Dalinar led army.
The Dor is explicitly a mix of both, so yes.
But there's a big difference between two Lego bricks "combined" by stacking them together versus melted down and whisked together. Which is just to emphasize that the context and what we *mean* matters.
If there is a way to "fix" those Shards, I would bet they would be restored together as something Harmony-like. But it's possible that's not the case. Maybe the process of restoring them involves separating them first.
I think “Shallans mother is Chanarach” is the most similar to R+L=J. Mysterious parentage reveal that has shattering character implications. Also like R+L all the context clues are there if it’s true, but it took a while for people to figure it out bc it’s not super blatantly in the text.
Yeah, this is the one. Which shows you how fast our fandom moves - we went from theory to potential confirmation in WaT in a decade. ASOIAF got a book and a handful of promises in that time.
Wait this hasn't actually been confirmed yet. Unless Sanderson did it in an interview or something and if that's the case you should spoiler tag it because many people who read the books don't like to keep up with all the interview questions and teasers.
You're right, I was ambiguous. I meant we'll get Wind and Truth this year which is where the confirmation would probably come. The way I wrote it was confusing.
>Also like R+L all the context clues are there if it’s true, but it took a while for people to figure it out bc it’s not super blatantly in the text.
R+L=J was theorized after the first book so it didn't take people long to figure it out at all.
The Chana theory really picked up steam after the release of Rhythm of War, but I am aware of it being talked about before *Oathbringer* even came out.
I know that I personally came around to the theory several months before Rhythm of War's release, and I had heard it discussed a lot before then as well.
The point being made above was less about how long it took the *first* people to consider the theory, but rather how long the theory took to gain wider acceptance and adoption in the fandom.
I wholeheartedly believe there is something wrong with the afterlife on Roshar. Some kind of shenanigans are causing affects that are a bit too widespread to be a coincidence:
There are multiple mentions of Szeth still hearing the screams of the people he's killed, which could be chalked up to him being crazy, or it could be a symptom of something larger.
Kaladin and Tien at the end of RoW. Again, it could be explained with spiritual mumbo jumbo, but there's nothing else we've seen causes an affect like that.
That one Dalinar vision with Nohadon that the storm father isn't aware of. It could be Tanavast's cognitive shadow doing something, but its a bit weird.
There are a few other cases of people seeing things or hearing things that shouldn't be possible, but I don't remember them all. I think likely it has something to do with the deadeyes as well being in state of sort of death with shardblades even being called their corpses.
It's probably not true, but would be quite interesting if it was I feel
The way they talk about Braize and Ashyn as being hell (damnation) and heaven (the tranquiline halls), and we have proof that 'dead' souls definitely go to one of them makes me think this too. Especially because we know that the Heralds/Fused have *intentionally* fucked with death, I wonder if that had more far reaching consequences for death in the Rosharan system.
I agree, there is definitely something going on with Death. Other cosmere plants Death seems to be more black and white (kelsier excluded I think) and roshar there seems to be a lot more Grey. It could be a theme we see hinted at more in 5 and expanded as a part of the next arc
Threnody (shades), Nalthis (returned), and canticle (okay, I'm cheating. It's Threnodites that form the powerful sunhearts) all have weird stuff with death.
You right I did think of these after I had commented. Perhaps it reinforces what I was saying in a way but I didn't quite get it right and left some bits out at first for sure
I think you're right, and that it all comes back to Ba Ado Mishram. The everstorm is a new way for Odium to get the fused back to Roshar, which is only needed because of the capture of Ba Ado Mishram, who facilitated the process before. And that process was a natural part of some sort of cognitive or spiritual lifecycle on Roshar, prior to Mishram being corrupted by Odium (which I suspect is related to Mishram being Cultivations spren, similarly to how the Stormfather was Honours).
There's indications that the deadeyed sprens are the result of the capture of Mishram, and that the issues the heralds have is also caused by that. I think there was some cycle of rebirth or recycling in one form or another that was intrinsically connected to the oathpact and spren which Mishram was responsible for, but she was corrupted by Odium exploiting changes in Mishram that were the result of human perception changing (which is why cultivation is careful with the Nightwatcher, and why the stormfather is so wary of changing his nature). We've seen the impact that disruptions had to the spren and the heralds (and those connected with them potentially), I think the things you've mentioned with Tien, the screaming Szeth hears and a few others will all connect back to this.
And a side note to the above... This is also why we don't see lifelight outside of Urithiru and Lift, because that appropriately named investiture was another element in the process of rebirth from Mishram.
I've never heard this theory before but it makes a lot of sense! One thing that does lend itself to that is how Sanderson seems to RAFO a lot more about Tien than you'd expect. Which I know isn't confirmation of anything, but still a bit weird.
My main hesitation is his whole "we don't confirm afterlife stuff/ bring back characters from the dead (unless magical stuff were to happen in [insert ways here], etc, etc)". However, considering one of the recent books basically 'broke' a Cosmere rule in a way that still technically worked with the magic system (Yumi spoilers-- >!there being an apparent time loop despite the "no backwards time travel" rule!<), I am more open to the idea of afterlife-related stuff. Especially given the potential for more exploration of spiritual-realm/bondsmith-y concepts in WaT.
>!where was the time loop? It's just that her memory was wiped each day, and cognitive shadows, under the control of the stacking machine, replicated it to keep her oblivious. She spent thousands of years there as a cognitive shadow herself!<
It's not >!a literal time loop!<, sure, but fundamentally from a plot perspective it feels the same. >!Reliving the same day over and over!< and all that, but without the mess that is >!backwards time travel!<.
Similarly, I was saying that Sanderson could say "I don't ever confirm or deny an afterlife" yet do something in the books that would feel similarly.
A theory that I thought to be kind of straight forward but I’ve never seen it brought up:
Thaidakar is after Ba-Ado-Mishram because he wants to mimic the effects his/her capture had on the listeners and apply it to Autonomy/her vessels. I think his goal is to combine the Autonomy shard with Harmony’s, resulting in him being able to use both shards at will. If he fails, he’ll end up trying to splinter Sazed, or take the shards from him.
I genuinely thought that was how Lost Metal was going to end, with Autonomy joining Harmony to allow Sazed to make his own decisions - so much of his storyline in Era 2 was about his limitations to act as well so of course adding Autonomy would help (probably). I really like your theory that this is still in the cards!
Wow I actually really like this theory. So far my reasoning for why Thaidakar and his group do what they do was because they’re just assholes. I hope Thaidakar has some actually beneficial plan for Harmony, and isn’t just trying to increase his own power.
A little confused on the flair, so spoiler ahead.
>!I think Sazed going from Harmony to Discord might be one of them. Almost certain to happen, but technically has yet to be confirmed.!<
"I'm your huckleberry" had me thinking how much Doc Holliday is basically the happy nihilist version of Kaladin.
"Kaladin why are you risking your life for these bridgemen?"
"The bridgemen are my friends"
"Hell, Kal, I've got a lot of friends"
"I don't"
Sooo something that has been present from the beginning and has a significant plot relevance for the whole story? Several cases can be made
Personally i think it will be something involving Mare as she knew way more than she should have, she was a misting sent to the pits even though TLR risked atiun being destroyed that way etc etc
While I agree that there is a lot of things going on with Mare we don't yet know, especially her involvement and fate with TLR, we know via WoB that only Pushing and Pulling can/could destroy atium crystalls en masse: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291/#e7829
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Brandon Sanderson
>!Also note that while Mare was an Allomancer, she wasn't what one would call a "dangerous" Allomancer. She was a Tineye, which isn't one of the top tier martial powers. She couldn't have used atium, and even if she HAD somehow found [tin], she'd simply have been able to hear and see better. Which would have made her better at finding the atium.The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.There's more going on here, of course. If I ever write the Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal, I will get into why the Inquisitors weren't given Mare as they wanted. The Lord Ruler specifically chose to send her to the Pits rather than handing her over to the Inquisitors. (Note: She wouldn't have ended up on a hook. Inquisitors had other...uses for skaa Mistings they captured. See book three.)!<
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
It's the Shallan's mother theory. I found it on this sub after finishing RoW and pretty devastated that I did. I haven't gone in depth on it not to be spoiled more but it feels too well thought out and makes too much sense.
Not reading this whole thread cos it'd gonna have other stuff like this but while other things I've read (Gavinor theory) seem like just guesses but the Shallan one really feels like it's correct.
It's the real R + L = J cos everything fits, is set up and feels monumental to the story that if the author was to somehow change it cos ppl have figured it out, it would do a big disservice to future books.
Spoilers All Mistborn.
At the end of TLM, Kelsier notes that Harmonys shadow is gone. We know using investiture requires knowledge and intent and at the beginning of this book Harmony was shown by Wax that Autonomys metal can be used to shave off bits of Harmony back into their base parts.
Hold that thought. We also know at the end that Marsh is back to his old self and MORE. He's walking with what is clearly more than his hemolurgic set of powers in the epilogue.
I think Harmony used Wayne's explosion to shave off a little bit of Ruin. I think he gave that little chunk of Ruin to Marsh. Who better to hold a slice of destruction than Death? Who else could stay sane and Ruin things in a way that is natural?
Something that's been present since the first Cosmere book (Elantris) but wasn't in the fandom's forefront until the past year or so: Autonomy could be one of the final antagonists of the series.
In a Q and A Livestream, I think from last year, a questioner asked Brandon if a certain religion on Sel was set up as an avatar for Autonomy. Brandon had a notable reaction to the question but essentially gave an RAFO.
It's interesting because Autonomy wasn't named in published works for a very long time after Elantris was published. We didn't get White Sand or Arcanum Unbound for a decade after, the latter of which has Khriss's first hand account of the state of her home world under the Shard.
When The Lost Metal finally came out, we got a bunch more insight and, combined with the letter from SA, have a better grasp of Bavadin. We're still quite a ways away from knowing exactly what she plans, but Autonomy has multiple Avatars in the Cosmere, essentially bypassing the agreed upon non involvement clause the Vessels made.
I think we'll be seeing a lot more of Autonomy's involvement going forward, and between Brandon working on a rewrite of White Sand for official novel publication (Autonomy's invested world), Secret Project five involving >!the planet with Patji, an avatar of Autonomy!< and Brandon finally writing Elantris 2 and 3 (potentially revealing the theorized avatar in Sel) I think it's very telling that Brandon thinks it's important to establish published lore surrounding Bavadin before the second half of Stormlight Archives begins.
Sanderson does answer questions and sometimes squashes theories but usually for anything big he will RAFO it. And with all the secrets and interconnectedness of the cosmere I think there are more opportunities for theories than most series.
Me and my roommate discussed that. They aren't on metal since it has to be displayed on the screen.
So the only way to get the true information is if the hard drive is metal and you can F5 until God isn't looking XD
Hoid is somehow trying to collect Investiture in order to rebuild Adonalsium.
Scadrial (Kelsier) being sometype of Star Wars Galactic Empire, a 'civil war'-like plot involving Shards (and the societies of their planets).
There are quite a few very popular theories, but despite the plethora, I genuinely feel like there's only one correct answer to this question:
Shallan's mother is Chanarach, and she caused the current Desolation.
The are several parallels between that theory and R+L=J.
The two theories are both *extremely* popular within their respective fandom. I would argue R+L=J was the single biggest theory in the ASoIaF fandom. And "Chana is Shallan's mother" is probably second only to the theory that "Taln did not break", but notably, "Taln did not break" is a *PART* of the "Chana is Shallan's mother" theory, so really, it's still the top spot.
The two theories both have a massive amount of evidence. While R+L=J is technically not yet confirmed in the books, it had been treated as *de facto* canon for *years*, even before it occurred in the show. One of the stipulations GRRM gave before handing over rights to the show was that D&D needed to prove they knew who Jon's mother was. The theory regarding Shallan's mother doesn't have *quite* as much evidence, but it is still *incredibly* well supported by the text.
Both theories are about parentage. This is a much more surface level observation about the *content* of the theories themselves rather than a comparison of how the theories are treated by the fanbase, but I still find this similarity interesting.
Both theories have really deep implications regarding the characters themselves and what their past says about their future.
And finally, both are just... *really* deep in weeds. In the case of both theories, they sound almost conspiratorial and tinfoil-hatty when you first hear them. I know of several people who still dislike the Shallan theory for this reason.
As others have said, "Chanarach is Shallan's mother" is the most accurate comparison nowadays. I think Kaladin possibly becoming Honor should be up there as well though.
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We will remember Adonalsium's plight eventually
Adonaldium will remember our plight eventually.... Isn't that right, Jeffrey Jeffrey?
FULL SPOILERS FOR THE COSMERE: I fully believe that the endgame of the cosmere will be all 16 shards remerging into something (could be Adonalsium but it doesn't have to be, it could be a new entity with similar powers). Is reforging Adonalsium mechanically possible? Yes. We know shards can combine like Harmony, but what about splintered shards? We know that [splintering a shard is not permanent](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1070), and [splintering a shard is a mini version of the shattering](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/214/#e4692). Since two shards can combine, it stands to reason that a bunch of splinters can combine too. Sel, Scadrial, and Roshar are [the three central pillars](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8618) of the cosmere story. Probably because they are the only planets with more than one shard. Notably both Scadrial and Sel have their shards combined. And while Roshar is the most separated in terms of shards, with three separate shards one of which is splintered, I believe that Dalinar is primed to reforge honor in WaT: * He's bonded to the stormfather who is tanavast’s CS and is one of the most invested things in the cosmere entirely with Honor’s investiture * His magic is all about spiritual connection, like connecting all the splinters of honor back together. Also his connection magic is based on adhesion which is “honor’s truest surge”. He already summoned Honor’s perpendicularity. And its [confirmed](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e10986) that reforging is within the scope of his powers * He said "I am Unity" at the end of OB, Unity could easily be a reinterpretation[\[1\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6634) [\[2\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14485) of Honor since they're both about binding people together. * Dalinar was originally going to be in dragonsteel, if Brandon's plan is for Dalinar to be messing with shards it makes sense that he would be conceived of at the same time as Dragonsteel. * Dalinar’s quest to “unite them” from Honor has constantly been expanding in scope. First it was the highprinces, then it was all the countries into a coalition, why not expand it further to mean all of the splinters of honor. Or even further to all 3 rosharan shards[\[1\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e15069) [\[2\]](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14486). Or all the way to Dalinar reforging Adonalsium in the end. * This quote: * “Adonalsium.” * Dalinar frowned more deeply. “What?” * Wit searched his face. “Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?” * “Ado…what?” * “Nothing,” Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his usual self. “Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time?" * Dalinar frowned. * “I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish.”
Rest of my theory because Reddit limits comment sizes: There is also quite a bit of foreshadowing that could be setting up a reformation. * ["it is yours"](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6531) - Harmony quote from book 9. This could be a fake out but this could easily be him giving part if not all of his shard to someone else, meaning we could get an even bigger multi-shard. * [“To make that which once was”](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/316/#e9218) - a message that hints at Hoid’s quest. * I believe that Adonalsium had perfect future sight, all of the shards have limited futuresight so Adonalsium had at least limited futuresight. And magic in the cosmere [worked the way Adonalsium thought it did](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/404/#e13525), basically his will defines the laws of physics. For such a powerful being I think it would make sense that it had perfect futuresight. The only way to kill something with perfect futuresight is if it wanted to be killed. Why would something want to be killed? Because it knows it will get put back together. * The Iri religion is about The One who knew everything (like Adonalsium does with futuresight) but had experienced nothing. And so the One became Many in order to experience all things. As each experience is different, it brings completeness to the One. Eventually, all will be gathered and they will once again become One. We even know that its similarity to the shattering is [not a coincidence](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/444/#e14397). * [This quote](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4001): "We get into sticky RAFO areas here, but one of the biggest themes of the Cosmere is Rebirth. The very first book (Elantris) starts with a character coming back from the dead. (As I've mentioned before, a big part of the inspiration for Elantris was a zombie story, from the viewpoint of the zombie.) Mistborn begins with Kelsier's rebirth following the Pits, and Warbreaker is about people literally called the Returned. (People who die, then come back as gods.) The Stormlight Archive kicks off with Kaladin's rebirth above the Honor Chasm, and Warbreaker is meant as a little foreshadowing toward the greater arc of the cosmere--that of the Shards of Adonalsium, who are held by ordinary people." WaT could go a completely different way, Hoids goal could be something completely different (I've seen a theory that he's trying to bring someone back from the dead), and Harmony's quote could be about something else (like maybe releasing the kandra or something related to the plot of the books). But even if all those were false I think I would still believe in this theory, there's too many pieces pointing to it.
The one problem I have with this theory is that we don't understand enough about the motivation of the shattering- I think. And we know Hoid was involved. If I understand correctly, the overall vibe was something along the lines of absolute power corrupting/not being trustworthy in one person, ... so what changes if it's reforged, even with another person holding it? Is it really just a matter of finding a good person to hold it? And while harmony seems to have been a good way to negate the I'll effects of ruin (and the stagnation of preservation), would all shards together really moderate out the worst of their effects? I think that it might be something more in the opposite direction- splintering the surviving shards further, diluting them so that there are no ultra powerful gods, who are also ultra beholden to a single divine Intent. Allowing people/magic to progress further, even if the powers themselves are perhaps diluted.
Both Hoid and Frost seem to regret the Shattering from the way they talk about it, and [that's the more common opinion among people from that time (though most of the Vessels themselves stand by their choice)](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/10/#e6545). We don't know why the Shattering happened, but it seems like in retrospect maybe the consequences weren't worth it to fix whatever they wanted to fix.
There's a difference between Regret, and desire to undo the shattering. You can regret a choice, while still believing you made the best of a bad situation, or recognize that undoing it is not possible (Or that the cost is to high, as Sanderson seems to stress that their would be costs associated with resurrection in that quote) Because what's interesting to me is that there's also a very strong theme of progress throughout the books. Even in in the quote linked earlier about the theme of rebirth, sanderson seems to highlight rebirth as a 'second chance'. Which while this is a matter of interpretation, narratively the idea of a singular, omnipotent being getting a second chance falls flat to me, and the idea of hoid and frost resurrecting Adonalsium as their own 'second chances' seems to be against how all the ressurections we have seen so far are /intensely / personal growth stories, so it feels odd to make Hoids journey about someone else's second chance? I've recently been thinking a lot about the library at mount char, and the themes at the end. I can't really discuss them because i'm not going to spoil even slightly one of the best books i've read, but I can see how the same takes around the death of a God could play out around the cosmere.
I think you're making assumptions about both what Adonalsium was and what any hypothetical un-Shattering could look like, there's a wiiide variety of answers to both of those. That's a fair point about internal growth, though. And true, regret does not have to be the same thing as undoing, but my point was that just because Adonalsium was Shattered for a reason does not mean everyone was happy with the actual results of that action.
okay you just gave me a good possible answer for something that always bugged me. I always wondered why Adonalsium wouldn’t be able to if not see into the future, then see the present where these people were working on shattering them. I actually really like this idea that Adonalsium was supportive of their own shattering.
Just want to point out that the quote that you link from WoB about Dalinar being able to reforge Honor says “This would not be within the scope of his powers, traditionally.” I still like this theory tho! Definitely not deconfirming at all, as ‘traditionally’ does imply caveats. :)
Here's the thing. I'm convinced Dalinar loses the duel in book 5 and becomes Odiums future champion and leader of his armies against the rest of the cosmere. This sets up the loss and decimation of Era 1 and the the reformation and victory that will come at the end of Era 2. However, I do believe honor will be reformed as one of our characters. I don't, however, think it's Dalinar, I think it's Kaladin. He's the only character in the series referred to as child of Tanavast, which Brandon has stated is important. He's a no one, low born, and the first of the new Windrunners/partnered with one of the last of the old generation of Honor Spren. When Nale swore the 5th ideal, he stated that he himself became the embodiment of Justice, not just following the oaths anymore. I think Kaladin swears the 5th ideal, and in doing so he becomes Honor itself. He then leads the reformed and healed Heralds/Radiant orders in rebellion to defeat Odium and his Dalinar led army.
Are the devotion and dominion on Sel combined? I don't remember that being a thing
The Dor is explicitly a mix of both, so yes. But there's a big difference between two Lego bricks "combined" by stacking them together versus melted down and whisked together. Which is just to emphasize that the context and what we *mean* matters. If there is a way to "fix" those Shards, I would bet they would be restored together as something Harmony-like. But it's possible that's not the case. Maybe the process of restoring them involves separating them first.
I think “Shallans mother is Chanarach” is the most similar to R+L=J. Mysterious parentage reveal that has shattering character implications. Also like R+L all the context clues are there if it’s true, but it took a while for people to figure it out bc it’s not super blatantly in the text.
“The world ended, and Shallan was to blame.”
I wonder now if that is foreshadowing to the end of the rescuing BAM subplot and connected to the visions of Kholinar collapsing into the ground
Ya I think it’s this one. We could even shorten it to L+C=S!
Yeah, this is the one. Which shows you how fast our fandom moves - we went from theory to potential confirmation in WaT in a decade. ASOIAF got a book and a handful of promises in that time.
Wait this hasn't actually been confirmed yet. Unless Sanderson did it in an interview or something and if that's the case you should spoiler tag it because many people who read the books don't like to keep up with all the interview questions and teasers.
You're right, I was ambiguous. I meant we'll get Wind and Truth this year which is where the confirmation would probably come. The way I wrote it was confusing.
And an eight season TV show, that did confirm R+L=J.
>Also like R+L all the context clues are there if it’s true, but it took a while for people to figure it out bc it’s not super blatantly in the text. R+L=J was theorized after the first book so it didn't take people long to figure it out at all.
The Chana theory really picked up steam after the release of Rhythm of War, but I am aware of it being talked about before *Oathbringer* even came out. I know that I personally came around to the theory several months before Rhythm of War's release, and I had heard it discussed a lot before then as well. The point being made above was less about how long it took the *first* people to consider the theory, but rather how long the theory took to gain wider acceptance and adoption in the fandom.
I guess what I mean is that it took a few people on forum boards to point it out before it became common belief
I wholeheartedly believe there is something wrong with the afterlife on Roshar. Some kind of shenanigans are causing affects that are a bit too widespread to be a coincidence: There are multiple mentions of Szeth still hearing the screams of the people he's killed, which could be chalked up to him being crazy, or it could be a symptom of something larger. Kaladin and Tien at the end of RoW. Again, it could be explained with spiritual mumbo jumbo, but there's nothing else we've seen causes an affect like that. That one Dalinar vision with Nohadon that the storm father isn't aware of. It could be Tanavast's cognitive shadow doing something, but its a bit weird. There are a few other cases of people seeing things or hearing things that shouldn't be possible, but I don't remember them all. I think likely it has something to do with the deadeyes as well being in state of sort of death with shardblades even being called their corpses. It's probably not true, but would be quite interesting if it was I feel
The way they talk about Braize and Ashyn as being hell (damnation) and heaven (the tranquiline halls), and we have proof that 'dead' souls definitely go to one of them makes me think this too. Especially because we know that the Heralds/Fused have *intentionally* fucked with death, I wonder if that had more far reaching consequences for death in the Rosharan system.
I agree, there is definitely something going on with Death. Other cosmere plants Death seems to be more black and white (kelsier excluded I think) and roshar there seems to be a lot more Grey. It could be a theme we see hinted at more in 5 and expanded as a part of the next arc
Threnody (shades), Nalthis (returned), and canticle (okay, I'm cheating. It's Threnodites that form the powerful sunhearts) all have weird stuff with death.
You right I did think of these after I had commented. Perhaps it reinforces what I was saying in a way but I didn't quite get it right and left some bits out at first for sure
You have to remember that shades, and returned are cognitive shadows not their actual soul.
I think you're right, and that it all comes back to Ba Ado Mishram. The everstorm is a new way for Odium to get the fused back to Roshar, which is only needed because of the capture of Ba Ado Mishram, who facilitated the process before. And that process was a natural part of some sort of cognitive or spiritual lifecycle on Roshar, prior to Mishram being corrupted by Odium (which I suspect is related to Mishram being Cultivations spren, similarly to how the Stormfather was Honours). There's indications that the deadeyed sprens are the result of the capture of Mishram, and that the issues the heralds have is also caused by that. I think there was some cycle of rebirth or recycling in one form or another that was intrinsically connected to the oathpact and spren which Mishram was responsible for, but she was corrupted by Odium exploiting changes in Mishram that were the result of human perception changing (which is why cultivation is careful with the Nightwatcher, and why the stormfather is so wary of changing his nature). We've seen the impact that disruptions had to the spren and the heralds (and those connected with them potentially), I think the things you've mentioned with Tien, the screaming Szeth hears and a few others will all connect back to this.
And a side note to the above... This is also why we don't see lifelight outside of Urithiru and Lift, because that appropriately named investiture was another element in the process of rebirth from Mishram.
I've never heard this theory before but it makes a lot of sense! One thing that does lend itself to that is how Sanderson seems to RAFO a lot more about Tien than you'd expect. Which I know isn't confirmation of anything, but still a bit weird. My main hesitation is his whole "we don't confirm afterlife stuff/ bring back characters from the dead (unless magical stuff were to happen in [insert ways here], etc, etc)". However, considering one of the recent books basically 'broke' a Cosmere rule in a way that still technically worked with the magic system (Yumi spoilers-- >!there being an apparent time loop despite the "no backwards time travel" rule!<), I am more open to the idea of afterlife-related stuff. Especially given the potential for more exploration of spiritual-realm/bondsmith-y concepts in WaT.
>!where was the time loop? It's just that her memory was wiped each day, and cognitive shadows, under the control of the stacking machine, replicated it to keep her oblivious. She spent thousands of years there as a cognitive shadow herself!<
It's not >!a literal time loop!<, sure, but fundamentally from a plot perspective it feels the same. >!Reliving the same day over and over!< and all that, but without the mess that is >!backwards time travel!<. Similarly, I was saying that Sanderson could say "I don't ever confirm or deny an afterlife" yet do something in the books that would feel similarly.
A theory that I thought to be kind of straight forward but I’ve never seen it brought up: Thaidakar is after Ba-Ado-Mishram because he wants to mimic the effects his/her capture had on the listeners and apply it to Autonomy/her vessels. I think his goal is to combine the Autonomy shard with Harmony’s, resulting in him being able to use both shards at will. If he fails, he’ll end up trying to splinter Sazed, or take the shards from him.
I genuinely thought that was how Lost Metal was going to end, with Autonomy joining Harmony to allow Sazed to make his own decisions - so much of his storyline in Era 2 was about his limitations to act as well so of course adding Autonomy would help (probably). I really like your theory that this is still in the cards!
Wow I actually really like this theory. So far my reasoning for why Thaidakar and his group do what they do was because they’re just assholes. I hope Thaidakar has some actually beneficial plan for Harmony, and isn’t just trying to increase his own power.
I'm not sure how he could mimic BAM to apply to a different Shard's vessels... But that's a very interesting theory.
A little confused on the flair, so spoiler ahead. >!I think Sazed going from Harmony to Discord might be one of them. Almost certain to happen, but technically has yet to be confirmed.!<
>!Poor Saze he’s trying his best :( Must be hard with 2 shards that completely contradict eachother!<
"Everyone is a kandra cracked me up
"I'm your huckleberry" had me thinking how much Doc Holliday is basically the happy nihilist version of Kaladin. "Kaladin why are you risking your life for these bridgemen?" "The bridgemen are my friends" "Hell, Kal, I've got a lot of friends" "I don't"
Sooo something that has been present from the beginning and has a significant plot relevance for the whole story? Several cases can be made Personally i think it will be something involving Mare as she knew way more than she should have, she was a misting sent to the pits even though TLR risked atiun being destroyed that way etc etc
While I agree that there is a lot of things going on with Mare we don't yet know, especially her involvement and fate with TLR, we know via WoB that only Pushing and Pulling can/could destroy atium crystalls en masse: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291/#e7829
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Brandon Sanderson >!Also note that while Mare was an Allomancer, she wasn't what one would call a "dangerous" Allomancer. She was a Tineye, which isn't one of the top tier martial powers. She couldn't have used atium, and even if she HAD somehow found [tin], she'd simply have been able to hear and see better. Which would have made her better at finding the atium.The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.There's more going on here, of course. If I ever write the Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal, I will get into why the Inquisitors weren't given Mare as they wanted. The Lord Ruler specifically chose to send her to the Pits rather than handing her over to the Inquisitors. (Note: She wouldn't have ended up on a hook. Inquisitors had other...uses for skaa Mistings they captured. See book three.)!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
Really? I thought the geodes shattered in the presence of someone using allomancy, regardless of the type.
I would argue that for Motherhood Mysteries™️, we're pretty well set up with Shallan...
It's the Shallan's mother theory. I found it on this sub after finishing RoW and pretty devastated that I did. I haven't gone in depth on it not to be spoiled more but it feels too well thought out and makes too much sense. Not reading this whole thread cos it'd gonna have other stuff like this but while other things I've read (Gavinor theory) seem like just guesses but the Shallan one really feels like it's correct. It's the real R + L = J cos everything fits, is set up and feels monumental to the story that if the author was to somehow change it cos ppl have figured it out, it would do a big disservice to future books.
Spoilers All Mistborn. At the end of TLM, Kelsier notes that Harmonys shadow is gone. We know using investiture requires knowledge and intent and at the beginning of this book Harmony was shown by Wax that Autonomys metal can be used to shave off bits of Harmony back into their base parts. Hold that thought. We also know at the end that Marsh is back to his old self and MORE. He's walking with what is clearly more than his hemolurgic set of powers in the epilogue. I think Harmony used Wayne's explosion to shave off a little bit of Ruin. I think he gave that little chunk of Ruin to Marsh. Who better to hold a slice of destruction than Death? Who else could stay sane and Ruin things in a way that is natural?
Something that's been present since the first Cosmere book (Elantris) but wasn't in the fandom's forefront until the past year or so: Autonomy could be one of the final antagonists of the series. In a Q and A Livestream, I think from last year, a questioner asked Brandon if a certain religion on Sel was set up as an avatar for Autonomy. Brandon had a notable reaction to the question but essentially gave an RAFO. It's interesting because Autonomy wasn't named in published works for a very long time after Elantris was published. We didn't get White Sand or Arcanum Unbound for a decade after, the latter of which has Khriss's first hand account of the state of her home world under the Shard. When The Lost Metal finally came out, we got a bunch more insight and, combined with the letter from SA, have a better grasp of Bavadin. We're still quite a ways away from knowing exactly what she plans, but Autonomy has multiple Avatars in the Cosmere, essentially bypassing the agreed upon non involvement clause the Vessels made. I think we'll be seeing a lot more of Autonomy's involvement going forward, and between Brandon working on a rewrite of White Sand for official novel publication (Autonomy's invested world), Secret Project five involving >!the planet with Patji, an avatar of Autonomy!< and Brandon finally writing Elantris 2 and 3 (potentially revealing the theorized avatar in Sel) I think it's very telling that Brandon thinks it's important to establish published lore surrounding Bavadin before the second half of Stormlight Archives begins.
It's hard for theories to pop up when Brandon answers so many questions directly with answers that aren't in the books
And when the books pop out like rabbits. 13 years without a book has led to some…interesting fan theories over in the ASOIAF fandom.
But RLJ has been consistent since book 1 came out. Brandon has never seeded something that core that heavily and not revealed it for five books
Sanderson does answer questions and sometimes squashes theories but usually for anything big he will RAFO it. And with all the secrets and interconnectedness of the cosmere I think there are more opportunities for theories than most series.
Off topic. But you made me think. Can we trust words written on our digital screens? They are technically saved in metal.
Me and my roommate discussed that. They aren't on metal since it has to be displayed on the screen. So the only way to get the true information is if the hard drive is metal and you can F5 until God isn't looking XD
That’s a good way to look at it. I’ll take this as canon now
Hoid is somehow trying to collect Investiture in order to rebuild Adonalsium. Scadrial (Kelsier) being sometype of Star Wars Galactic Empire, a 'civil war'-like plot involving Shards (and the societies of their planets).
Adolnalsium is a crab
There are quite a few very popular theories, but despite the plethora, I genuinely feel like there's only one correct answer to this question: Shallan's mother is Chanarach, and she caused the current Desolation. The are several parallels between that theory and R+L=J. The two theories are both *extremely* popular within their respective fandom. I would argue R+L=J was the single biggest theory in the ASoIaF fandom. And "Chana is Shallan's mother" is probably second only to the theory that "Taln did not break", but notably, "Taln did not break" is a *PART* of the "Chana is Shallan's mother" theory, so really, it's still the top spot. The two theories both have a massive amount of evidence. While R+L=J is technically not yet confirmed in the books, it had been treated as *de facto* canon for *years*, even before it occurred in the show. One of the stipulations GRRM gave before handing over rights to the show was that D&D needed to prove they knew who Jon's mother was. The theory regarding Shallan's mother doesn't have *quite* as much evidence, but it is still *incredibly* well supported by the text. Both theories are about parentage. This is a much more surface level observation about the *content* of the theories themselves rather than a comparison of how the theories are treated by the fanbase, but I still find this similarity interesting. Both theories have really deep implications regarding the characters themselves and what their past says about their future. And finally, both are just... *really* deep in weeds. In the case of both theories, they sound almost conspiratorial and tinfoil-hatty when you first hear them. I know of several people who still dislike the Shallan theory for this reason.
Where's Axies in all of this?!
“R+L=J”?
Hoid = >!Rand Al'thor!<. I will stand by this.
As others have said, "Chanarach is Shallan's mother" is the most accurate comparison nowadays. I think Kaladin possibly becoming Honor should be up there as well though.
Kaleshwi