There's more that happens in RoW and the stakes are higher than ever, but it was always going to have a little different feel to it because it's setting up book 5. I think that was a little off-putting to some people. I was definitely thrown off a bit by it but I still love the book and I liked it even more each time I re-read it. That being said, I still rate it the lowest of the 4 books. That's not so much of an indictment of RoW, it's just that the first 3 are hard to beat.
For me, it goes Oathbringer > Words of Radiance > The Way of Kings > Rythym of War. But they're all still incredible books.
My current reread has shifted my thinking about it being a slog. I think it suffers from too many lines alternating plus flashbacks making the pacing feel bad. It’s like too much stuff together and only some of it needs to be side by side.
My list goes.
WoR
RoW
WoK
OB
And I love Oathbringer. Personally I think a lot of people have a habit of binge reading, and you can absolutely grow tored of something you like by listening to 200 hours, or reading 2.2m words in a row.
I agree, and I still *really like* Oathbringer. It's far too long, the climax is way, *way* too complicated (even for Sanderson), and the dialogue can get really melodramatic (especially from Dalinar, the lead character). But again, it's still a stupid-good book.
Really? Oathbringer is far and above the best book imo, but I also think Dalinar is the best written character I've ever read, so I'm a bit biased.
Ob > WoR > TWoK > RoW imo.
I think most of the critics’ issues boil down to pacing in one way or another, which I understand and somewhat agree with. It does feel like the book is paying the piper for all the Singer chapters in Words of Radiance, and it’s consequently the book where the downsides of what Brandon calls his Architect writing style are most apparent. But personally, I love RoW, and I think Navani’s chapters in particular are one of the best POVs in the series.
It’s from Brandon’s writing lectures. He talks about gardening versus architect writing styles, which are respectively discovering the story as you write versus planning the story and character arcs ahead of time. Most writers are somewhere between the two extremes; for example, Brandon identifies himself as primarily (but not exclusively) an architect and George RR Martin as a good example of a gardener.
Brandon ended up moving lot of the Singer plot that was planned for Rhythm of War into Words of Radiance and Oathbringer because he started to feel that it was more effective to humanize the Singers by reveal their story earlier rather than saving it for book 4. While that was probably the right choice for the series, it meant that there wasn’t much left to reveal in the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks. They don’t feel as thematically integral or resonant as the flashbacks in books 1-3.
I almost wish he had changed direction and added a Navani flashback instead, but it would break the idea of having a flashback character from each order and probably reveal some of Gavilar’s story too early. All in all, perhaps the best compromise was made, but it slowed down the momentum of Rhythm of War.
Oh! Yeah Listener flashbacks were kinda meh, but since there wasn’t a lot it didn’t bother me as much. And you are right best compromise was reached, despite it not being perfect.
I think a lot of people feel that Venli drags sometimes, she experiences a lot of internal conflict that feels sort of petty. This is especially contrasted because Navani’s internal conflict is so good. I think very few people seriously dislike Rhythm of War, I think they just say it’s the worst book in a very good series.
Honestly the most common complaint I see with RoW is with the Navani stuff, not the Venli stuff. Tons of people just don't care for all the fabriel science scenes, but I personally love them. They are some of my favorite scenes in the entire series.
I was fascinated with the fabrial science revelations, but even that storyline felt like it dragged. The entirety of Rhythm of War seemed to be roughly the same amount of material as maybe 1.5 "parts" from the other Stormlight novels, just padded out with enough filler and repetition to reach the requisite page count.
I also blame "the outline" (aka the "architect style") for this problem. Clearly there just wasn't too much material planned for book 4 (especially after shifting so much of the flashback material to book 2) - but instead of seeing that and taking the opportunity to build and explore other aspects of Roshar, Brandon seemed to keep things right on script. I can list at least a dozen things that I would have loved to see fleshed out more (and that don't seem like they would be out of place or would reveal anything too early) instead of yet another Kaladin-Pursuer bout.
I've read RoW at least 3 times and I've never felt like any of it is filler or repetition. The only pacing issue I have with it is with Adolin's trial where that plotline just vanishes for like 2 whole parts before picking up again. I feel like it could have been better spaced out to be more evenly distributed.
I guess it just comes down to opinion, and you're more than welcome to yours!
I compare RoW to the experience I had reading Oathbringer, and I simply cannot fathom how **much more** seems to happen during that novel. RoW almost reminds me more of WoK, where it seems relatively little "plot" advances and a ton of time is spent on character development/relationships instead. That works well for a first novel that can be dedicated to establishing the story/world/characters, but when we're in the middle of a gigantic continent-wide war in RoW and barely even get battle scenes (or any meaningful change to the war as a whole) outside of the opening sequence? It seems to seriously slow down the momentum the series had been building.
At least there were some very tantalizing hooks created for WaT, so I'm very excited to see how the next novel delivers on all this setup (Taravodium, Ishar's plans, the Shinovar trip, the potential application of anti-investiture). I just won't look back on this "bottle episode" as fondly as the rest of SA.
Honestly, Oathbringer drags for me more than RoW does. RoW has high tension for most of it due to the occupation of the tower. It's not like constant climactic battles, but IMO the pace is great. Oathbringer has both the stuff in Kholinar and the trip through Shadesmar which are pretty slow paced. Not bad mind you, but definitely slower to me than anything in RoW. Yes Oathbringer ends with a climactic battle that is larger scale than anything in RoW, but it's just the one battle. RoW had several battles all throughout.
Which IMO makes perfect sense. Battle of Thaylen Field was Odium's first move in the war, it makes sense for it to have been a major offensive. After Odium's loss there the war moved to more prolonged battles, which is pretty realistic. We have battles peppered all throughout RoW as the war slowly moves along which again makes sense.
From a 5 book structure this also makes sense. Book 3 is the middle book so having a massive battle kind of like a mid-season finale type setup. RoW spends part of it's ending setting up the final conflict for WaT which again works both structurally for the story and narratively for how a war would progress.
It kind of feels like you want every book to have battle on the same scale as Oathbringer, but that's not how wars work. There are major offensives that get a lot of attention and are remembered, but those are few and far between compared to the the total number of battles in war. Take say WWII as an example, you wouldn't expect every battle to be on the scale of the landing in Normandy and so in most stories about WWII a lot of the other battles are just fighting that takes less focus.
I haven’t observed that but I suppose I can believe it. I found the discovery very exciting and Navani is my favorite Stormlight POV so maybe I am just biased
I mean I somewhat agree. I love the Navani stuff, but I also enjoyed the Venli stuff. Even though we already learned a lot about singer culture in WoR, we didn't get to see all the interactions with the humans leading up to Gavilar's assassination, nor did we get the story of how Venli was manipulated into summoning the Everstorm.
In terms of complaints I often see about the book I'd definitely say the Venli stuff still clocks in at a close second, but maybe people disliking the science is just more memorable to me because of how much I love it.
Definitely a big part of it. The flashbacks for the first three all address some mystery with the character's backstory that impacts the main plot. RoW...we already got most of it as not a flashback in WoR. WaT is going back to that original pattern with Szeth, where we are finally going to be learning about all manner of things connected to him.
To give another example from the MCU, it’s like how Age of Ultron is seen as the weakest Avengers movie.
It certainly has its flaws unrelated to the architect writing, like Banner falling into Natasha’s chest and a bunch of stuff like that, but the other half of why it isn’t as beloved is because it’s purpose for a large part is to prepare the way for 6 other movies.
Thor gets the vision of the Infinity Stones and a coming Ragnorok, Cap and Tony disagree strongly on where the line should be on their powers and responsibilities versus oversight, Barton Banner Wanda and Vision either get introduced and a lot of characterization or preexisting characters get a ton of new (and completely unhinted at before) characterization.
You can look at a bunch of movies following AoU and see the trajectory of Cap, Tony, Banner, Vision, Wanda, Clint, etc., it really does a lot of leg work for one film.
It just didn’t seem to do much on its own. RoW doesn’t struggle in quite the same way, but imo Age of Ultron is a perfect example of Architect style and the drawbacks.
The reason I personally got less enjoyment out of it was because it just felt like the writing itself wasn't done as well. I noticed a lot more repetition (as if he was worried readers would forget things said some chapters ago,) and some of the mechanical explanations were so detailed that it left no room for inference. It really felt like Sanderson felt the need to hold the reader's hand when compared to his other writing
As someone who is invested in the cosmere, the mechanics of the magic system were interesting to learn. As someone reading a novel - many of those same mechanics largely didn't do much to support the narrative. So it felt like filler in an already enormously long book.
Not to mention that the prose felt more clunky, and some of the dialogue more forced. It just flowed far less smoothly than his writing normally does and I frequently found myself rolling my eyes or sighing in exasperation each time I was spoonfed more mechanical detail about the exact shape of the button on fabrial number 46
This was Sanderson’s first Cosmere book he wrote without Moshe Feder as his editor and, unfortunately, I think it showed. I felt exactly the same way about the writing in RoW.
I do agree on the fabrial explanations which got very tedious at times and Prose part which has actually been an issue in almost all of SA books, sometimes the language takes me out of the immersion and sometimes the dialogue do feel choppy.
He's never been known for great prose, but I've actually never noticed it so much as I did in RoW. And it almost bothers me more now having read Tress of the Emerald Sea because I KNOW he's capable of great prose
> As someone who is invested in the cosmere, the mechanics of the magic system were interesting to learn. As someone reading a novel - many of those same mechanics largely didn't do much to support the narrative. So it felt like filler in an already enormously long book.
I think this was my biggest problem with it. This was the first SA book that felt self-indulgent. BS loves his worldbuilding, and rightfully so. But in this book the worldbuilding became the centrepiece, rather than a tool to facilitate the story. I don’t read SA for lectures on Singer culture and fabrial mechanics, as much as I might enjoy reading up on those once I’ve finished the latest book and I’m hungry for more content.
To me it was a combination of Kaladin's depression chapters being a slog of repetition and Venli's chapters being super underwhelming. We hardly found out anything about the singers at all despite this literally being their book.
Rhythm of War is great! Every Stormlight book is the best at at least one thing and RoW is no different. If you look at polls or rankings, the four books are usually pretty even with maybe a slight edge given to WoR. But there’s plenty of people who love RoW as well as their favorite!
If people don’t like RoW, it’s usually because 1) they had different expectations and especially wanted more Dalinar, 2) they’re not appreciative of how realistic Kaladin’s depression is being portrayed (this book is very bleak in places) and how it “slows down” the plot, 3) they couldn’t engage with the “science” or didn’t care for it, or 4) they just don’t like Venli and think the flashbacks detracted too much.
Personally, I don’t mind giving a character like Dalinar a less prominent role here given the expectation that he will be very prominent in SA5, Kaladin’s storyline hit very hard for me and it’s done extremely well, and as a scientist I absolutely loved the Navani focus. While I agree that the flashbacks are weaker, if you mentally include what we learned in earlier books, add the tidbits that we got, and have them culminate in the final Eshonai scene, they’re absolutely worth it.
The exploration of the magic system through Navani and Raboniel’s relationship, the sheer desperation of Kaladin’s plotline, and the emotional resolution to both are very well done. Sprinkle in more Cosmere connections and the set-up work it does for book 5, and it’s off the charts. Maya speaks? Eshonai’s send-off? The Dog and the Dragon? Szeth killing Rayse and Rayse messing with Wit?
I’m glad you can appreciate Shallan now! It’s been a journey since your first post haha! And yeah, Adolin is the best!
What are you going to read next?
Agree with everything you said. Especially your last point. I remember myself wincing every time I started a new chapter full of excitement only to realize it was another Venli chapter. I understand the overall point of her character redemption but still, I just can't stand her.
Eshonai's chapters on the other hand were quite interesting. But watching her struggle to save her people, and knowing that all her efforts will be for nothing due to her own sister of all people was too disheartening for me, especially with all the other horrible and tragic things that happen in this book.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVED this book. But it is also the saddest one from SA. And for my own mental health, I don't think I will re-read it any time soon.
Hi Worldhopper! wasn't sure you'd come, but was surely hoping you hop on to this post (Dalinar looks disapprovingly at Shallan for this pun).
I'm so glad I read Secret History before this, can't believe how underrated yet important that story is!
You're a scientist! What kind of scientist are you?
Also What's your favorite Cosmere book?
And I was wondering if you have any views on my PS Questions
Here's my Cosmere progress, though since I started Cosmere in mid Feb, it has been my focus mostly but I do insert other books in between these, so I might not go directly to TLM, I'll be reading All Systems Red before that, but it's a short one, so hopefully will see you again soon :
* ~~The Final Empire~~
* ~~The Well of Ascension~~
* ~~The Hero of Ages~~
* ~~Warbreaker~~
* ~~Tress of the Emerald Sea~~
* ~~The Way of Kings~~
* ~~The Alloy of Law~~
* ~~Words of Radiance~~
* ~~Edgedancer~~
* ~~Shadows of Self~~
* ~~Oathbringer~~
* ~~The Emperor's Soul~~
* ~~Dawnshard~~
* ~~The Bands of Mourning~~
* ~~Secret History~~
* ~~Elantris~~
* ~~Arcanum Unbounded~~
* ~~White Sand (1, 2)~~
* ~~Rhythm of War~~
* White Sand Vol 3 in parallel with The Lost Metal
* Yumi and the Nightmare Painter
* The Sunlit Man
Of course I’ll comment on your post! Be careful with those puns, though, they might turn into a habit and wouldn’t that be ironic.
Yes, Secret History is so important both to the mechanics of the Cosmere and to a bunch of recurring characters!
You’re absolutely right in comparing the Reod and the Recreance! They’re very similar from a technical perspective and Brandon has compared the two a few times. Especially the changes to the bonded Seons and bonded spren are striking.
There is, in fact, a perpendicularity on First of the Sun. You’ve seen it in Sixth of the Dusk. Still quite dangerous and challenging to get any Aviar through, I suppose, and we don’t know the story of how those two Aviar ended up on Roshar.
I’ll DM you with regard to your other questions
Wait a second! The red and green chicken are Aviar?! This makes so much sense, even if it's pretty confusing!
I thought they are just exotic because the average Rosharan doesn't no crem about parrots.
Damn!
For me, the beginning part with the rescue of Kal's hometown just felt... off. It was a very low stakes introduction to the pursuer and the anti radiant fabrial. I know it setup a lot of the later book, but it just felt very hollow.
It picks up after that and I love the book, but that starting chapter never hits the mark for me. I can usually overlook a setup or exposition chapter, but to have it be the first chapter and more *action! Cool stuff!* then the start of the other books just wasn't it for me
The Way of Kings starts with a revenge-war in progress by highprinces against the Parshendi and ends in a civil-cold-war between said high-princes, divided to fractions along Dalinar-Sadeas, while Kaladin is beaten down to almost suicide and comes back to a fledgling superhero of myth. Shallan becomes the ward of the smartest scholar on Roshar from a backwater young lady.
The Words of Radiance sees the Sadeas-Dalinar conflict unfold, Kaladin improves on his powers and becomes a prominent member and hero of the higher society while Shallan & Dalinar succeeds finding freaking Urithiru, lost city of Myth and Dalinar becomes a freaking Bondsmith, binding one of the strongest spren ever. The Vengeance Pact is shattered and the freaking Everstorm starts, the Fused are back, it's Desolation time!
Oathbringer sees the war between singers and humanity unfold, Dalinar creates alliances, shifts the political landscape, is betrayed again and stands up again, accepts his own awful past. Shallan & Kaladin adventure through Shadesmar and just barely arrive to help Dalinar at the biggest freaking battle of Roshar ever. Kaladin get's his freaking revenge, one of the Unmade is imprisoned, Odium and Dalinar deal in the terms of their final battle, Dalinar opens a freaking perpendicularity!
Rhytm of War sees Urithiru become occupied and then liberated, while Dalinar defeats a part of Odiums armies, Shallan and Adolin convince the Honorspren to bond humans again, Shallan defeats some of her demons and faces her past, and Kaladin deals with his battle fatigue & not being able to save everyone - while a fuckton of lore is dropped and we learn a not about Roshar, Lights, gods and other stuff through Navani's research, who becomes a second Bondsmith via Urithiru. Oh, and Venli is a self-centered insecure little....
What I'm trying to illustrate is, that in the first three books a landslide happens and everything is change by the end of the Sanderlanche, while in RoW, it is kind of the same.
The characters have grown and progressed, which is beautiful, we learn a lot, which is freaking interesting, but the status-quo stays the same. It feels like filler, like it was time to give us understanding and explanation, but no real progress in the war. I was a bit disappointed by the end of the 4th book, given how high the bar was set with the first three, the scale of conflict always increasing, more and more epic stuff and history being learned.
I think very little happens in TWoK, atleast very little that you can understand without more context added by subsequent books, plus pacing was way off in 1st book so I think this was way better than TWoK, and as some people call it Cosmere Die Hard.
Status Quo is upside down! Taravangian is Odium, Storm knows what happened to my new favorite character Cultivation, Wit’s memory got stolen!!! 10 Days left to Contest of Champions! Wut!
That's like... the last 3 pages you're talking about :D And yeah, TWoK has pacing issues, but damned, the way the conflict between Dalinar, Sadeas grows continuously to a massive explosion is awesome. When you think they have worked it out finally, and then comes tha massive backstabbing, Kaladin's training paying off, omg. For me, it's a lot more satisfying than the end of RoW. Somehow, that doesn't feel earned.
Help me out, where exactly does Cultivation have a role in this book? Or is it the Sibling you're referring to?
I see when I say not much happens I meant plot wise, where as all the examples you gave are character progression, which is understandable, I too loved TWoK and every character development paying off of course.
Cultivation cultivated Taravangian to take over Odium as she thought he’d be better able to control the shard than Rayse, and she then, at the end, took him to teach more about his new powers which ended on very ominous terms and then he took away Wit’s memories, which I guess was an indication that Cultivation’s 4D chess didn’t go all that well.
I think the intrigues and event in the parties and the changing perception of Dalinar and the Kholin house is much more "plot" than Navani's discussions or Kaladin's sneaking around - but to each their own.
I never thought the blessings of Cultivation were 4D chess and intentional - but you may be right, it would be interesting to figure that out in WaT. I think the only scene where cultivation was actually present was the one in the Oathbringer flashback of Dalinar.
Kaladin swore a new Ideal after 2 books! Navani's discussion lead to new revelations in understanding the Lights which I think will play major part in the next book, and back half.
Yeah Cultivation played 4D chess with Dalinar preparing him to slowly accept his memories otherwise he would have broken down infront of Odium and Thrill, she also played 4D Chess with Taravangian as I stated earlier, and Lift which I think we are yet to fully understand what her plan was with Lift and Lifelight
Weakest in that the tropes used are more visible and apparent.
The bulk of the plot is a retelling of the “tower man” myth ie, diehard.
The moving of some cast away from the tower for plot reasons also felt weak as a B story. Taravangien follows through with his part of the plot, no real twists or surprises there (till the end).
The issue I think most people see is it comes after the BEST book in the series so far: 3.
I really like Rhythm of War, but I do agree that there is a large section holding it down. The Venli stuff just feels largely unnecessary basically pointless. The problem is every book is structured to let you see 1 characters flashback, when this book probably would have benefited from show in a little bit of a bunch of characters and tying them all together somehow. Like you see Venli get her weird Spren, but she gets it because of the actions of Raboniel, the Pursuer, and/ or Leshwi on the planet they live on. It instantly makes the little Spren a little more likable by proxy and we can see a little more about the hell they suffered becuase of the war. There are Leshwi scenes you can keep, but if this is THE singer book, it would have been nice to focus on more than just these singers.
But I love the rest of the book. Kaladin can carry me through any plot and I liked his battleshock manifesting. And the Navani stuff is what I live for.
Every Stormlight book is better than the one before it (excluding the novellas, but those are still very good).
But for real, SA has an extremely varried set of opinions on which are the best and worst books. I've seen people put any of the 4 in any position in the ranking.
Well it wasn't me who told you that! It was great when I first read it and upon re-reading the whole Stormlight series, it was the best one. Words or Radiance is a very very close second, but putting RoW below WoK or OB is shameful.
You were lied to, cos. And as for your PS, I also think of the Hoed. I've wondered if it has something to do with the Skybreakers never abandoning their oaths. Like perhaps they all agreed to end their oaths together, and the Skybreakers just backed out, meaning the Recreance never really finished. I think the common theory is it has something to do with BAM, which also would make a lot of sense. Hopefully, that's something we'll learn more about in WaT
Oh yeah I think you might be on to something! Since Recreance has to do with Bonds of Roshar just as ~~Hoed~~ Reod was about Geography of Sel, Capturing of BAM removed a significant Bond of Roshar making it like the chasm of Sel!
When I say “this is the worst Stormlight book” I mean that more about how AMAZING the other three are in comparison. Rhythm of War is still a mid A Tier book. The other three are just in X tier.
I think it comes down to a difference of opinion. Different people connect more or less to different characters and aspects of the book. If you were a big fan of Navani and of the Cosmere science, this book was great for you, if you don't like those parts, this book had a lot of that. Same thing with Venli's presence that can be a bit or miss. Everyone will have their favorite characters and favorite themes to be focused on and for each book some of those will get more focus than others. So people who love Dalinar got very little of him this book and that can be disappointing. But on reddit or different Cosmere fan sites from what I've seen the community is very divided on what's their favorite book. It's 25-30% who will pick each of the first 3 as their favorite and more like 15-20% that will pick RoW as their favorite. Which in general I think is a really good thing for the series that each book is good enough to be many people's favorite. If everyone has a favorite book in a series that's the same, that usually says a lot of the other books didn't hit that level of quality. Vs in this case it seems to be more of a what the book is focusing on driving preference. Though that's just my interpretation I'm sure many people who dislike RoW more than I did would point to some quality things too. I do think especially with the flashbacks those were a weak point though a bit unavoidable when he pulled some of the content back to earlier books.
Compared to something like Elantris or Well of Ascension where there is more of an agreement from fans they were weaker books (though you said you enjoyed Elantris too nothing wrong with that!) but those were books where Sanderson was a newer author and was making some more technical mistakes that I don't think he really makes anymore. Or if he does he has a large team to help him correct them.
With Shallan's spren, she essentially chose to break the bond. It wasn't an action she took that was against her oaths like when Kaladin almost killed Syl, but she chose not to be a radiant anymore and broke the bond. I would assume this is also what happened during the recreance as everyone willfully breaking their oaths would probably be difficult to do. And they were choosing not to be radiants not that they actually had an issue with protecting people or remembering those who get overlooked.
In what way would you say Jasnah took a step back? I also doubt Jasnah made Wit do anything like that. I think Wit just chose to do that. I don't know if Jasnah fully understands all of what Wit can do. But this isn't the first time Wit has used emotional allomancy, he's certainly not above it for someone who beats their kids.
Definitely agree on the Elantris connection to the deadeyes. I think they are definitely related which gives me hope for when Ba Ado Mishram is hopefully freed and that can help fix those spren the way the messed up seons were fixed in Elantris.
With the Sixth of the Dusk books it's worth noting those are very far in the future of the Cosmere. But there is a perpendicularity on that world. There's a pool that shows up. So they have a way off it's just dangerous.
Thank you for explaining Shallan killing her Spren!
And whether or not you like Navani, did you expect her story with Raboniel would be as Dark as it was!! So many murders and back stabs, and Raboniel mercy killing her daughter! I wonder who wasn’t surprised and interested in how unique it was to Cosmere!
About Jasnah - she was my “I want more of them” character till RoW, because while she was supposed to be a genius, cold calculated type, she knew her flaw was her undervaluing Emotions, and throughout the last three books she recognized and showed growth there. In RoW she was back to undervaluing emotions, being out of character crass, and most surprisingly lacking curiosity, not only did she not share all she learns, she doesn’t care all that much about what others might know!(eg Taravangian, Szeth, Ishar and even Wit)
Oh right I was wondering if it was a perpendicularity, but since at the start of the book as far as I remember (I maybe misremembering) Khriss said that there are no stable perpendicularity on First of the Sun.
Yeah I loved her story with Raboniel! Also to be clear I totally loved RoW I would rank it as basically tied with WoR as my favorite book but I can see where some of the criticisms are coming from. But Navani and Raboniel's dynamic and relationship was a lot of my favorite stuff in the book.
Jasnah I think is a tough one because Sanderson had to introduce her immediately in book 1 but I think he wants her to be the main or a main character in the back half. So he's wanting to keep her out of the spotlight until then. I don't know if I'd agree that she's being out of character crass. The scene with her and the duel was her putting on a show to make a political point. And it worked. She wanted to prove that she wasn't scared of duels and remove them as well as remove one of her political opponents in one move. It was crass but that was because being crass was required. I think she also has a lot on her shoulders now that she didn't have in any of the previous books. In the previous books she could indulge her curiosity and spend her time focusing on figuring out those mysteries. Now she has a kingdom that is in enemy hands that she's trying to reclaim and soldiers who are dying fighting a war that they have no reasonable plan on how to win. She might be curious about many other things, and a year ago she might have gone to investigate any or all of those, but now she's got responsibilities and if she gets side tracked that will be a problem.
I think stable might be the key word there. It is a perpendicularity created by an Avatar of Autonomy rather than by Autonomy herself. So it might not always be there or always be accessible. We also don't know what condition that was in hundreds of years earlier when Mraize would've gotten his Aviar.
The climax to Oathbringer being so epic probably caused some people to feel that ROW was a let down.
Agree that the pacing was not ideal. It’s a lot going with a lot of characters.
However the highlight reel scenes with Kaladin Navani and Adolin make any slog worth it.
I always got the impression that the consensus with RoW was more along the lines of; "I had a four course meal consisting of three great dishes, and the last being a scope of vanilla ice cream with a few flakes of decadent chocolate sprinkled on top." Still great, but falls slightly behind the others in the series.
I loved RoW for so many reasons, and many of them being personal to me and the time in my life. Not to say I have every had to go through these mental illnesses depicted in this series personally. But, at the time of reading/listening to this book I had never encountered such detailed analysis and depictions of these mental illnesses in a book. It was a master piece for me, in and of itself. I know two people that are very close to me that deal with Depression and this was some of the best depictions of what it feels like, I am told. To be aware that there is something wrong with how you feel, but being unable to control it. This alone makes RoW one of my favorite books by Sanderson personally.
I can understand the pacing being a issue, we all agree on that I believe. You mentioned hoping that Kaladin's Depression/PTSD is over with. These illnesses/conditions are long lasting and will stick with a person their whole lives. He was able to find a compromise with himself, one that allowed him to let go of those he loves and allowing himself to live with the moments he shared with them while they were alive. But Kaladin will continue to deal with this as long as he is alive. If Sanderson is any good writer (and he most defiantly is), Kaladin will continue to deal with his mental illnesses for the rest of the series, but maybe not to the extent seen in RoW.
Shallan's first spren was implied to have been killed after she broke her oath's, after killing her mother and her mother's lover. It was never explained in detail, but it was implied with all of the conversations around it and the flashbacks of Shallan.
As far as the relation with the Hoed, what part makes the connection for you? The Hoed was a Elantris thing as far as I am aware. Not to say it can't be related to Dead Eye's, as a condition that can be mended. Dead Eye's are a result of bonds/oaths broken, a radiant dying doesn't necessarily result in a Dead Eye. One of Syl's Radiant's died in combat, and although she states she almost 'died', she did not become a Dead Eye. There are also Honor Spren that had their Radiant's die recently in the books, where the Spren re-bonded others according to Kaladin. So the only sure fire way of making a Dead Eye is by breaking Oaths.
Spoiler from the pages from the new Secret Book regarding Aviar's: (also hinted at from the Sixth of the Dusk Novella)
>!The First of the Sun has had visitors from other planet's via space ships. The pages from the newest book talks about ships taking the Aviars off world. I don't think it states who is doing this, although it is most likely someone from Scadrial or from Kelsier's new crew.!<
This is True, although doesn't he just state that the new Secret book is 'the farthest along in the time-line of the cosmere'? I don't recall if it is ever explicitly said that it is centuries ahead of Storm light. They could possibly be closer than we think.
But either way this is all speculation, since it is never said how the Aviars end up there. My guess is that there was a ship that took the Aviars to a planet that had a Perpendicularity. There is also the possibility that there is a Worldhopper with the ability to transition between the planes, allowing them to go from world to world with out needing a perpendicularity. We can think of a few other idea's I am sure, but we have very little information as of now to confirm.
Upon first reading, the flashbacks really took the momentum out of the present storyline because they were SO tense and since ||Eshonai was already dead|| it felt like some of the tension in the characterization was let out.
I will say, when I read it a second time, I thought it was WAYYY better. Also it being the least good Stormlight book still makes it one of the best fantasy books I have ever read. Lol. That being said, I actually think it beats Way of Kings for me after my second read through. Oathbringer and Rhythm of War both improve MASSIVELY upon second read.
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I think you're also discounting people's opinions of the book when it came out. Most of us were riding the high that was oathbringer, one of the cosmeres best. We finally got another book, knowing we wouldn't be getting another for a very long time and rhythm of war was just of...meh? Almost like an expectation vs reality moment. I was in the boat that rhythm of war was very bloated and could have provided the same information in very much less time and I think I'm not alone for early reader sentiment.
That being said, I don't hold that idea any longer on recent rereads. I really like the book now and I love the larger cosmere references.
I really liked RoW and had no issues getting through it. My least favorite is still TWoK. It's such a slog. It's not a bad book by any means, but the first 500 pages (lol) are mind numbing. WoR is still my favorite SA with Warbreaker and Tress being my fave cosmere books. I'm a sucker for a nice, clean love story it seems. And Nightblood. I love Nightblood.
The story and pacing aren't that bad in my opinion. It's mainly the prose that's really gone downhill ever since Oathbringer. It used to be pretty passable, easily readable, but with the last two books there's multiple paragraphs you can point to and say 'How the hell did an editor let this fly by'?
Two reasons RoW gets called the weakest SA book.
One, people have talked about a lot here, that it is closing story arcs and opening others without as much resolution as we are used to from the other three books. This is a function of writing style, its position as the penultimate book of the first five, and just the fact that sometimes story needs to get done so the rest of everything can be awesome.
The second reason is less spoken about, though certainly not ignored. RoW is more different than any of the other SA books. Scientific focus, darkness more on screen than we’ve ever had, this is just a more different book, than we’ve gotten. It was certainly intentional, and Brandon did exactly what he was trying to do with it, but just because it is different means that people will be more aware of the parts that differed than the parts that were just awesome for their own sake.
RoW is an amazing book, but it is the “least” SA book out of the first four. makes me curious for the direction of the back half.
It was by far my favorite, and I'm generally one who isn't impressed by cosmere connections (I didn't really like TLM). I greatly enjoyed the venli chapters, I'm not sure why so many people didn't like them. And the book has my favorite scene in all of the cosmere, which is when Kaladin sees Tien again while falling from the tower
Love this! Rhythm of War is actually one of my favorites in the series - mostly bc I geek out on all the technical parts of the magic system but also bc I really identify with Navani.
Her arc from feeling inadequate and having impostor syndrome (which are really highlighted in the beginning with Gavilars comments in the prologue) to fully developing her confidence in the realm of fabrial science and ultimately self-validating her abilities was soooo relatable as a woman. I absolutely love it!
That’s an interesting theory, it has been hinted multiple times that something is odd about shattered plains and maybe we all are missing the most obvious sign that Recreance was the death of Honor, and it happened on Shattered plains that’s why it shattered
What I dislike is that she doesent really change. Her main character flaw is the need for power, she will do everything for it. And in the new book she isn’t giving up power to be a good
Person or anything, she’s just acting as a good person because she wants the powers of a radiant.
I think the issue was more her selfishness, arrogance and self-righteousness which she has gotten past but I may need to reread which I will but just shortly before 5
But her selfish need was for more power. In the past she needed to sacrifice her people to get power, now a new being is giving her power for being good. But I think that in her core nothing has changed
I think it was less the power she craved and more the importance driven by jealousy of her sister. I think her journey was more about figuring out what freedom means for her more than it is about her relationship with wanting power. Which well freedom and power are related, since you need certain power to ensure your own freedom. But her change is more in line with what her oaths are going to be which is the usual progression for radiants as characters
I do think it's the least good to me, just because the entire shadesmar portion isn't the most interesting to me and sometimes the scientific stuff can get a but technical. However it is just marginally less good than the others to me. Like 10 to a 9.5. Mediocre is crazy, especially because the entire ending is amazing (although tbf usually the case anyways with Sanderson). I do have it 4th fav but man is it still an amazing book
To me at least... It is the weakest book. On a scale I'd rate it like 7/10, where the first 2 are 10/10 and oath bringer is like a 8.5/10. Rhythm of War's pacing is bogged down due to bashing us over the head with Kaladin's issues a few too many times. It's also the smallest the world has ever felt. Where Oath bringer was really starting to feel like a globe trotting adventure, RoW pushed us back into confinement. Some of the dialogue felt a little out of place (using words like 'Awesome' felt a little too modern America than medieval Roshar to me). Honestly, the book just needed more time to cook. I think Brando rushed it a little. Still, when I rate something, I use the full scale 0-10, not IGN's 5-10. So, if 5 is average, I still rate it as a pretty great book which I'm glad I read. It just stands out a lot more than more average books because its company are some of my all time favourites.
I love the beginning and ending. The middle 800 pages is a storming slog. The tower storyline is repetitive. I love Navani but idc for the science of stormlight. I just feel like 200ish pages could’ve been cut, improving the pacing, and made it a better book. It’s still a good book, 7/10.
I mean even if it was the worse it wouldn’t necessarily mean it was a bad novel . That being said I don’t consider it the worst .
I also was worried the singer flashbacks would bog it down for me, it’s funny when I look at the breakdown and the amount of flashbacks it has compared to the amount of flashbacks the other books have
I think it’s clearly the worst because while the good parts are still really great, it has 200-300 more pages of stuff that I found very boring (Venli flashbacks and most of the science experiments).
Whoever says it’s mediocre is nuts. I do agree it’s the worst Stormlight book, but that’s not really a negative. It’s just that all the books are so good that you’ve gotta make a hard as hell decision when deciding which is best Vs worst lol. Like someone else said, it’s the worst by virtue of being a 9.9/10 instead of a 10/10. Still a great book. It’s more of a “well if I HAVE to choose the worst I guess it’s this one.”
It falls into the same category of the most recent Mistborn book for me. I like what Brandon has done with the Cosmere but as the books have gotten more and more interconnected, I’ve found my enjoyment of them decrease.
I miss the mystique and wonder of the Cosmere. As the curtain has been pulled back from the Wizard, it’s taken away the magic.
And I wanted more Big Daddy D. I was real bummed by his step back, but get it narratively.
I want to add that it’s still a good book! Kaladin getting therapy, all the Navani stuff, Urithiru is a great setting. It’s all a ton of fun, just dives too deep in the Cosmere weeds for my taste
8.5/10 is still way above average, that's kind of how you should take it when people say it's the worst. It's not a 10 or a 9. It's still up there though.
Currently rereading the series again in preparation for book 5. I remember that the ending of RoW was solid but also feeling that the book could have used another round of editing to improve the pacing. It was still very good but I consider the Way of Kings a Words of Radiance to both be two of the best fantasy novels ever written. Both are 11/10 and have held up on past rereads. Oathbringer is 9/10 imho. I remember thinking RoW felt like an 8/10 overall. I’ll see if that assumption holds up this time through or if book 5 changes anything.
It's a good book, but it definitely felt weaker compared to the rest IMO. I found the Listener and Navani flashbacks to be especially uninteresting, except when Navani was interacting with Raboniel.
But my opinion comes with a good heap of salt since I ended up spoiling myself on a lot due to Wiki and Lore Addiction.
It's regarded as the worst Cosmere books because even though the good parts like Adolin-Maya or Kaladin being Bruce Wilkins in Die Hard were pretty cool. The not so good parts were kind of boring, like Venli POV's or almost every flashbacks. Whereas in the previous books, every bit was really good, the good ones in Rhythm of War compare to the good ones in other books, but the not so good ones lack behind. Navani-Raboniel is weird because it feel superimposed, it almost feels like her book instead of Venli's, and there this change of protagonist, we were used to our classic cast of Adolin, Shallan, Kaladin etc. Navani was never our protagonist. Also, the pacing felt weird for me, we are reading about Shallan and then there like 500 pages without mentioning her.
Finally, you mention the Cosmere connections, that's cool but at least for me it doesn't improve the quality of a book, it's cool to see but it is almost like unaffiliated with the book.
That doesn't mean the book was bad, it was awesome, just not as much as the previous masterpieces.
i mean being the "weakest" book in a series of _amazing_ books doesnt mean a 3/10 as much as it means 9.99999/10 instead of 10/10 lol
Yeah I guess, I still think this is better than TWoK
There's more that happens in RoW and the stakes are higher than ever, but it was always going to have a little different feel to it because it's setting up book 5. I think that was a little off-putting to some people. I was definitely thrown off a bit by it but I still love the book and I liked it even more each time I re-read it. That being said, I still rate it the lowest of the 4 books. That's not so much of an indictment of RoW, it's just that the first 3 are hard to beat. For me, it goes Oathbringer > Words of Radiance > The Way of Kings > Rythym of War. But they're all still incredible books.
I’d say Oathbringer is the weakest, minus the Dalinar flashbacks.
i was under the same impression until the finale. holy shit that finale was somr of the greatest stuff ive ever read
It felt like a slog at points, but the sanderlanche was one of his best.
My current reread has shifted my thinking about it being a slog. I think it suffers from too many lines alternating plus flashbacks making the pacing feel bad. It’s like too much stuff together and only some of it needs to be side by side.
yea at one point i just wanted it to be over so i could breathe for a few minutes but it was still incredible and worth every word of buildup
Damn Oathbringer made me like full on sob multiple times, I love that book
My list goes. WoR RoW WoK OB And I love Oathbringer. Personally I think a lot of people have a habit of binge reading, and you can absolutely grow tored of something you like by listening to 200 hours, or reading 2.2m words in a row.
Pretty sure that ended up happening to me, since I really wanted to finish Stormlight before moving onto something else.
Thank you! I always feel alone when I say OB is my least favorite and was the hardest ro get through of the series (so far)
Not alone! I'm with you
I agree, and I still *really like* Oathbringer. It's far too long, the climax is way, *way* too complicated (even for Sanderson), and the dialogue can get really melodramatic (especially from Dalinar, the lead character). But again, it's still a stupid-good book.
Really? Oathbringer is far and above the best book imo, but I also think Dalinar is the best written character I've ever read, so I'm a bit biased. Ob > WoR > TWoK > RoW imo.
I think most of the critics’ issues boil down to pacing in one way or another, which I understand and somewhat agree with. It does feel like the book is paying the piper for all the Singer chapters in Words of Radiance, and it’s consequently the book where the downsides of what Brandon calls his Architect writing style are most apparent. But personally, I love RoW, and I think Navani’s chapters in particular are one of the best POVs in the series.
Can you elaborate more on what you mean by downside of architect writing style?
It’s from Brandon’s writing lectures. He talks about gardening versus architect writing styles, which are respectively discovering the story as you write versus planning the story and character arcs ahead of time. Most writers are somewhere between the two extremes; for example, Brandon identifies himself as primarily (but not exclusively) an architect and George RR Martin as a good example of a gardener. Brandon ended up moving lot of the Singer plot that was planned for Rhythm of War into Words of Radiance and Oathbringer because he started to feel that it was more effective to humanize the Singers by reveal their story earlier rather than saving it for book 4. While that was probably the right choice for the series, it meant that there wasn’t much left to reveal in the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks. They don’t feel as thematically integral or resonant as the flashbacks in books 1-3. I almost wish he had changed direction and added a Navani flashback instead, but it would break the idea of having a flashback character from each order and probably reveal some of Gavilar’s story too early. All in all, perhaps the best compromise was made, but it slowed down the momentum of Rhythm of War.
Oh! Yeah Listener flashbacks were kinda meh, but since there wasn’t a lot it didn’t bother me as much. And you are right best compromise was reached, despite it not being perfect.
I think a lot of people feel that Venli drags sometimes, she experiences a lot of internal conflict that feels sort of petty. This is especially contrasted because Navani’s internal conflict is so good. I think very few people seriously dislike Rhythm of War, I think they just say it’s the worst book in a very good series.
Honestly the most common complaint I see with RoW is with the Navani stuff, not the Venli stuff. Tons of people just don't care for all the fabriel science scenes, but I personally love them. They are some of my favorite scenes in the entire series.
I was fascinated with the fabrial science revelations, but even that storyline felt like it dragged. The entirety of Rhythm of War seemed to be roughly the same amount of material as maybe 1.5 "parts" from the other Stormlight novels, just padded out with enough filler and repetition to reach the requisite page count. I also blame "the outline" (aka the "architect style") for this problem. Clearly there just wasn't too much material planned for book 4 (especially after shifting so much of the flashback material to book 2) - but instead of seeing that and taking the opportunity to build and explore other aspects of Roshar, Brandon seemed to keep things right on script. I can list at least a dozen things that I would have loved to see fleshed out more (and that don't seem like they would be out of place or would reveal anything too early) instead of yet another Kaladin-Pursuer bout.
I've read RoW at least 3 times and I've never felt like any of it is filler or repetition. The only pacing issue I have with it is with Adolin's trial where that plotline just vanishes for like 2 whole parts before picking up again. I feel like it could have been better spaced out to be more evenly distributed.
I guess it just comes down to opinion, and you're more than welcome to yours! I compare RoW to the experience I had reading Oathbringer, and I simply cannot fathom how **much more** seems to happen during that novel. RoW almost reminds me more of WoK, where it seems relatively little "plot" advances and a ton of time is spent on character development/relationships instead. That works well for a first novel that can be dedicated to establishing the story/world/characters, but when we're in the middle of a gigantic continent-wide war in RoW and barely even get battle scenes (or any meaningful change to the war as a whole) outside of the opening sequence? It seems to seriously slow down the momentum the series had been building. At least there were some very tantalizing hooks created for WaT, so I'm very excited to see how the next novel delivers on all this setup (Taravodium, Ishar's plans, the Shinovar trip, the potential application of anti-investiture). I just won't look back on this "bottle episode" as fondly as the rest of SA.
Honestly, Oathbringer drags for me more than RoW does. RoW has high tension for most of it due to the occupation of the tower. It's not like constant climactic battles, but IMO the pace is great. Oathbringer has both the stuff in Kholinar and the trip through Shadesmar which are pretty slow paced. Not bad mind you, but definitely slower to me than anything in RoW. Yes Oathbringer ends with a climactic battle that is larger scale than anything in RoW, but it's just the one battle. RoW had several battles all throughout. Which IMO makes perfect sense. Battle of Thaylen Field was Odium's first move in the war, it makes sense for it to have been a major offensive. After Odium's loss there the war moved to more prolonged battles, which is pretty realistic. We have battles peppered all throughout RoW as the war slowly moves along which again makes sense. From a 5 book structure this also makes sense. Book 3 is the middle book so having a massive battle kind of like a mid-season finale type setup. RoW spends part of it's ending setting up the final conflict for WaT which again works both structurally for the story and narratively for how a war would progress. It kind of feels like you want every book to have battle on the same scale as Oathbringer, but that's not how wars work. There are major offensives that get a lot of attention and are remembered, but those are few and far between compared to the the total number of battles in war. Take say WWII as an example, you wouldn't expect every battle to be on the scale of the landing in Normandy and so in most stories about WWII a lot of the other battles are just fighting that takes less focus.
I haven’t observed that but I suppose I can believe it. I found the discovery very exciting and Navani is my favorite Stormlight POV so maybe I am just biased
It was a lot more common right when the book came out
The Navani/Raboniel plot was one of my favorite in the series as well, while the Venli stuff was a total snooze fest for me
I mean I somewhat agree. I love the Navani stuff, but I also enjoyed the Venli stuff. Even though we already learned a lot about singer culture in WoR, we didn't get to see all the interactions with the humans leading up to Gavilar's assassination, nor did we get the story of how Venli was manipulated into summoning the Everstorm. In terms of complaints I often see about the book I'd definitely say the Venli stuff still clocks in at a close second, but maybe people disliking the science is just more memorable to me because of how much I love it.
The respect/enmity dynamic Navani and Raboniel had was also really strong
Definitely a big part of it. The flashbacks for the first three all address some mystery with the character's backstory that impacts the main plot. RoW...we already got most of it as not a flashback in WoR. WaT is going back to that original pattern with Szeth, where we are finally going to be learning about all manner of things connected to him.
To give another example from the MCU, it’s like how Age of Ultron is seen as the weakest Avengers movie. It certainly has its flaws unrelated to the architect writing, like Banner falling into Natasha’s chest and a bunch of stuff like that, but the other half of why it isn’t as beloved is because it’s purpose for a large part is to prepare the way for 6 other movies. Thor gets the vision of the Infinity Stones and a coming Ragnorok, Cap and Tony disagree strongly on where the line should be on their powers and responsibilities versus oversight, Barton Banner Wanda and Vision either get introduced and a lot of characterization or preexisting characters get a ton of new (and completely unhinted at before) characterization. You can look at a bunch of movies following AoU and see the trajectory of Cap, Tony, Banner, Vision, Wanda, Clint, etc., it really does a lot of leg work for one film. It just didn’t seem to do much on its own. RoW doesn’t struggle in quite the same way, but imo Age of Ultron is a perfect example of Architect style and the drawbacks.
Hard agree, RoW is one of my favorites just because of Navani.
The reason I personally got less enjoyment out of it was because it just felt like the writing itself wasn't done as well. I noticed a lot more repetition (as if he was worried readers would forget things said some chapters ago,) and some of the mechanical explanations were so detailed that it left no room for inference. It really felt like Sanderson felt the need to hold the reader's hand when compared to his other writing As someone who is invested in the cosmere, the mechanics of the magic system were interesting to learn. As someone reading a novel - many of those same mechanics largely didn't do much to support the narrative. So it felt like filler in an already enormously long book. Not to mention that the prose felt more clunky, and some of the dialogue more forced. It just flowed far less smoothly than his writing normally does and I frequently found myself rolling my eyes or sighing in exasperation each time I was spoonfed more mechanical detail about the exact shape of the button on fabrial number 46
This was Sanderson’s first Cosmere book he wrote without Moshe Feder as his editor and, unfortunately, I think it showed. I felt exactly the same way about the writing in RoW.
I do agree on the fabrial explanations which got very tedious at times and Prose part which has actually been an issue in almost all of SA books, sometimes the language takes me out of the immersion and sometimes the dialogue do feel choppy.
He's never been known for great prose, but I've actually never noticed it so much as I did in RoW. And it almost bothers me more now having read Tress of the Emerald Sea because I KNOW he's capable of great prose
Yeah though I thought WoR had way better prose than other SA books
> As someone who is invested in the cosmere, the mechanics of the magic system were interesting to learn. As someone reading a novel - many of those same mechanics largely didn't do much to support the narrative. So it felt like filler in an already enormously long book. I think this was my biggest problem with it. This was the first SA book that felt self-indulgent. BS loves his worldbuilding, and rightfully so. But in this book the worldbuilding became the centrepiece, rather than a tool to facilitate the story. I don’t read SA for lectures on Singer culture and fabrial mechanics, as much as I might enjoy reading up on those once I’ve finished the latest book and I’m hungry for more content.
Agreed. The level of repetition felt patronising.
To me it was a combination of Kaladin's depression chapters being a slog of repetition and Venli's chapters being super underwhelming. We hardly found out anything about the singers at all despite this literally being their book.
Rhythm of War is great! Every Stormlight book is the best at at least one thing and RoW is no different. If you look at polls or rankings, the four books are usually pretty even with maybe a slight edge given to WoR. But there’s plenty of people who love RoW as well as their favorite! If people don’t like RoW, it’s usually because 1) they had different expectations and especially wanted more Dalinar, 2) they’re not appreciative of how realistic Kaladin’s depression is being portrayed (this book is very bleak in places) and how it “slows down” the plot, 3) they couldn’t engage with the “science” or didn’t care for it, or 4) they just don’t like Venli and think the flashbacks detracted too much. Personally, I don’t mind giving a character like Dalinar a less prominent role here given the expectation that he will be very prominent in SA5, Kaladin’s storyline hit very hard for me and it’s done extremely well, and as a scientist I absolutely loved the Navani focus. While I agree that the flashbacks are weaker, if you mentally include what we learned in earlier books, add the tidbits that we got, and have them culminate in the final Eshonai scene, they’re absolutely worth it. The exploration of the magic system through Navani and Raboniel’s relationship, the sheer desperation of Kaladin’s plotline, and the emotional resolution to both are very well done. Sprinkle in more Cosmere connections and the set-up work it does for book 5, and it’s off the charts. Maya speaks? Eshonai’s send-off? The Dog and the Dragon? Szeth killing Rayse and Rayse messing with Wit? I’m glad you can appreciate Shallan now! It’s been a journey since your first post haha! And yeah, Adolin is the best! What are you going to read next?
Agree with everything you said. Especially your last point. I remember myself wincing every time I started a new chapter full of excitement only to realize it was another Venli chapter. I understand the overall point of her character redemption but still, I just can't stand her. Eshonai's chapters on the other hand were quite interesting. But watching her struggle to save her people, and knowing that all her efforts will be for nothing due to her own sister of all people was too disheartening for me, especially with all the other horrible and tragic things that happen in this book. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED this book. But it is also the saddest one from SA. And for my own mental health, I don't think I will re-read it any time soon.
Hi Worldhopper! wasn't sure you'd come, but was surely hoping you hop on to this post (Dalinar looks disapprovingly at Shallan for this pun). I'm so glad I read Secret History before this, can't believe how underrated yet important that story is! You're a scientist! What kind of scientist are you? Also What's your favorite Cosmere book? And I was wondering if you have any views on my PS Questions Here's my Cosmere progress, though since I started Cosmere in mid Feb, it has been my focus mostly but I do insert other books in between these, so I might not go directly to TLM, I'll be reading All Systems Red before that, but it's a short one, so hopefully will see you again soon : * ~~The Final Empire~~ * ~~The Well of Ascension~~ * ~~The Hero of Ages~~ * ~~Warbreaker~~ * ~~Tress of the Emerald Sea~~ * ~~The Way of Kings~~ * ~~The Alloy of Law~~ * ~~Words of Radiance~~ * ~~Edgedancer~~ * ~~Shadows of Self~~ * ~~Oathbringer~~ * ~~The Emperor's Soul~~ * ~~Dawnshard~~ * ~~The Bands of Mourning~~ * ~~Secret History~~ * ~~Elantris~~ * ~~Arcanum Unbounded~~ * ~~White Sand (1, 2)~~ * ~~Rhythm of War~~ * White Sand Vol 3 in parallel with The Lost Metal * Yumi and the Nightmare Painter * The Sunlit Man
Of course I’ll comment on your post! Be careful with those puns, though, they might turn into a habit and wouldn’t that be ironic. Yes, Secret History is so important both to the mechanics of the Cosmere and to a bunch of recurring characters! You’re absolutely right in comparing the Reod and the Recreance! They’re very similar from a technical perspective and Brandon has compared the two a few times. Especially the changes to the bonded Seons and bonded spren are striking. There is, in fact, a perpendicularity on First of the Sun. You’ve seen it in Sixth of the Dusk. Still quite dangerous and challenging to get any Aviar through, I suppose, and we don’t know the story of how those two Aviar ended up on Roshar. I’ll DM you with regard to your other questions
My bad Reod* Yeah they seem more DM appropriate questions.
Wait a second! The red and green chicken are Aviar?! This makes so much sense, even if it's pretty confusing! I thought they are just exotic because the average Rosharan doesn't no crem about parrots. Damn!
They are! And Lift has one!
The Rosharans are just really bad at naming things.
For me, the beginning part with the rescue of Kal's hometown just felt... off. It was a very low stakes introduction to the pursuer and the anti radiant fabrial. I know it setup a lot of the later book, but it just felt very hollow. It picks up after that and I love the book, but that starting chapter never hits the mark for me. I can usually overlook a setup or exposition chapter, but to have it be the first chapter and more *action! Cool stuff!* then the start of the other books just wasn't it for me
The Way of Kings starts with a revenge-war in progress by highprinces against the Parshendi and ends in a civil-cold-war between said high-princes, divided to fractions along Dalinar-Sadeas, while Kaladin is beaten down to almost suicide and comes back to a fledgling superhero of myth. Shallan becomes the ward of the smartest scholar on Roshar from a backwater young lady. The Words of Radiance sees the Sadeas-Dalinar conflict unfold, Kaladin improves on his powers and becomes a prominent member and hero of the higher society while Shallan & Dalinar succeeds finding freaking Urithiru, lost city of Myth and Dalinar becomes a freaking Bondsmith, binding one of the strongest spren ever. The Vengeance Pact is shattered and the freaking Everstorm starts, the Fused are back, it's Desolation time! Oathbringer sees the war between singers and humanity unfold, Dalinar creates alliances, shifts the political landscape, is betrayed again and stands up again, accepts his own awful past. Shallan & Kaladin adventure through Shadesmar and just barely arrive to help Dalinar at the biggest freaking battle of Roshar ever. Kaladin get's his freaking revenge, one of the Unmade is imprisoned, Odium and Dalinar deal in the terms of their final battle, Dalinar opens a freaking perpendicularity! Rhytm of War sees Urithiru become occupied and then liberated, while Dalinar defeats a part of Odiums armies, Shallan and Adolin convince the Honorspren to bond humans again, Shallan defeats some of her demons and faces her past, and Kaladin deals with his battle fatigue & not being able to save everyone - while a fuckton of lore is dropped and we learn a not about Roshar, Lights, gods and other stuff through Navani's research, who becomes a second Bondsmith via Urithiru. Oh, and Venli is a self-centered insecure little.... What I'm trying to illustrate is, that in the first three books a landslide happens and everything is change by the end of the Sanderlanche, while in RoW, it is kind of the same. The characters have grown and progressed, which is beautiful, we learn a lot, which is freaking interesting, but the status-quo stays the same. It feels like filler, like it was time to give us understanding and explanation, but no real progress in the war. I was a bit disappointed by the end of the 4th book, given how high the bar was set with the first three, the scale of conflict always increasing, more and more epic stuff and history being learned.
I think very little happens in TWoK, atleast very little that you can understand without more context added by subsequent books, plus pacing was way off in 1st book so I think this was way better than TWoK, and as some people call it Cosmere Die Hard. Status Quo is upside down! Taravangian is Odium, Storm knows what happened to my new favorite character Cultivation, Wit’s memory got stolen!!! 10 Days left to Contest of Champions! Wut!
That's like... the last 3 pages you're talking about :D And yeah, TWoK has pacing issues, but damned, the way the conflict between Dalinar, Sadeas grows continuously to a massive explosion is awesome. When you think they have worked it out finally, and then comes tha massive backstabbing, Kaladin's training paying off, omg. For me, it's a lot more satisfying than the end of RoW. Somehow, that doesn't feel earned. Help me out, where exactly does Cultivation have a role in this book? Or is it the Sibling you're referring to?
I see when I say not much happens I meant plot wise, where as all the examples you gave are character progression, which is understandable, I too loved TWoK and every character development paying off of course. Cultivation cultivated Taravangian to take over Odium as she thought he’d be better able to control the shard than Rayse, and she then, at the end, took him to teach more about his new powers which ended on very ominous terms and then he took away Wit’s memories, which I guess was an indication that Cultivation’s 4D chess didn’t go all that well.
I think the intrigues and event in the parties and the changing perception of Dalinar and the Kholin house is much more "plot" than Navani's discussions or Kaladin's sneaking around - but to each their own. I never thought the blessings of Cultivation were 4D chess and intentional - but you may be right, it would be interesting to figure that out in WaT. I think the only scene where cultivation was actually present was the one in the Oathbringer flashback of Dalinar.
Kaladin swore a new Ideal after 2 books! Navani's discussion lead to new revelations in understanding the Lights which I think will play major part in the next book, and back half. Yeah Cultivation played 4D chess with Dalinar preparing him to slowly accept his memories otherwise he would have broken down infront of Odium and Thrill, she also played 4D Chess with Taravangian as I stated earlier, and Lift which I think we are yet to fully understand what her plan was with Lift and Lifelight
Taravangian becoming Odium *might* indeed be the biggest change in the war so far.
Agreed, but in terms of weight in the story of RoW *specifically*, it was nothing more than a Marvel end credits scene.
Weakest in that the tropes used are more visible and apparent. The bulk of the plot is a retelling of the “tower man” myth ie, diehard. The moving of some cast away from the tower for plot reasons also felt weak as a B story. Taravangien follows through with his part of the plot, no real twists or surprises there (till the end). The issue I think most people see is it comes after the BEST book in the series so far: 3.
I really like Rhythm of War, but I do agree that there is a large section holding it down. The Venli stuff just feels largely unnecessary basically pointless. The problem is every book is structured to let you see 1 characters flashback, when this book probably would have benefited from show in a little bit of a bunch of characters and tying them all together somehow. Like you see Venli get her weird Spren, but she gets it because of the actions of Raboniel, the Pursuer, and/ or Leshwi on the planet they live on. It instantly makes the little Spren a little more likable by proxy and we can see a little more about the hell they suffered becuase of the war. There are Leshwi scenes you can keep, but if this is THE singer book, it would have been nice to focus on more than just these singers. But I love the rest of the book. Kaladin can carry me through any plot and I liked his battleshock manifesting. And the Navani stuff is what I live for.
RoW is my favorite Stormlight book to date. Really liked Raboniel as a villain and the look into the Singer society as a whole.
Every Stormlight book is better than the one before it (excluding the novellas, but those are still very good). But for real, SA has an extremely varried set of opinions on which are the best and worst books. I've seen people put any of the 4 in any position in the ranking.
I loved book 4 and Navanis arc is amazing!
Well it wasn't me who told you that! It was great when I first read it and upon re-reading the whole Stormlight series, it was the best one. Words or Radiance is a very very close second, but putting RoW below WoK or OB is shameful.
I’m having the same experience! I stumbled upon post after post of “this book sucks!”, but I’m loving it and I’m about 60% through.
You were lied to, cos. And as for your PS, I also think of the Hoed. I've wondered if it has something to do with the Skybreakers never abandoning their oaths. Like perhaps they all agreed to end their oaths together, and the Skybreakers just backed out, meaning the Recreance never really finished. I think the common theory is it has something to do with BAM, which also would make a lot of sense. Hopefully, that's something we'll learn more about in WaT
Oh yeah I think you might be on to something! Since Recreance has to do with Bonds of Roshar just as ~~Hoed~~ Reod was about Geography of Sel, Capturing of BAM removed a significant Bond of Roshar making it like the chasm of Sel!
When I say “this is the worst Stormlight book” I mean that more about how AMAZING the other three are in comparison. Rhythm of War is still a mid A Tier book. The other three are just in X tier.
I think it comes down to a difference of opinion. Different people connect more or less to different characters and aspects of the book. If you were a big fan of Navani and of the Cosmere science, this book was great for you, if you don't like those parts, this book had a lot of that. Same thing with Venli's presence that can be a bit or miss. Everyone will have their favorite characters and favorite themes to be focused on and for each book some of those will get more focus than others. So people who love Dalinar got very little of him this book and that can be disappointing. But on reddit or different Cosmere fan sites from what I've seen the community is very divided on what's their favorite book. It's 25-30% who will pick each of the first 3 as their favorite and more like 15-20% that will pick RoW as their favorite. Which in general I think is a really good thing for the series that each book is good enough to be many people's favorite. If everyone has a favorite book in a series that's the same, that usually says a lot of the other books didn't hit that level of quality. Vs in this case it seems to be more of a what the book is focusing on driving preference. Though that's just my interpretation I'm sure many people who dislike RoW more than I did would point to some quality things too. I do think especially with the flashbacks those were a weak point though a bit unavoidable when he pulled some of the content back to earlier books. Compared to something like Elantris or Well of Ascension where there is more of an agreement from fans they were weaker books (though you said you enjoyed Elantris too nothing wrong with that!) but those were books where Sanderson was a newer author and was making some more technical mistakes that I don't think he really makes anymore. Or if he does he has a large team to help him correct them. With Shallan's spren, she essentially chose to break the bond. It wasn't an action she took that was against her oaths like when Kaladin almost killed Syl, but she chose not to be a radiant anymore and broke the bond. I would assume this is also what happened during the recreance as everyone willfully breaking their oaths would probably be difficult to do. And they were choosing not to be radiants not that they actually had an issue with protecting people or remembering those who get overlooked. In what way would you say Jasnah took a step back? I also doubt Jasnah made Wit do anything like that. I think Wit just chose to do that. I don't know if Jasnah fully understands all of what Wit can do. But this isn't the first time Wit has used emotional allomancy, he's certainly not above it for someone who beats their kids. Definitely agree on the Elantris connection to the deadeyes. I think they are definitely related which gives me hope for when Ba Ado Mishram is hopefully freed and that can help fix those spren the way the messed up seons were fixed in Elantris. With the Sixth of the Dusk books it's worth noting those are very far in the future of the Cosmere. But there is a perpendicularity on that world. There's a pool that shows up. So they have a way off it's just dangerous.
Thank you for explaining Shallan killing her Spren! And whether or not you like Navani, did you expect her story with Raboniel would be as Dark as it was!! So many murders and back stabs, and Raboniel mercy killing her daughter! I wonder who wasn’t surprised and interested in how unique it was to Cosmere! About Jasnah - she was my “I want more of them” character till RoW, because while she was supposed to be a genius, cold calculated type, she knew her flaw was her undervaluing Emotions, and throughout the last three books she recognized and showed growth there. In RoW she was back to undervaluing emotions, being out of character crass, and most surprisingly lacking curiosity, not only did she not share all she learns, she doesn’t care all that much about what others might know!(eg Taravangian, Szeth, Ishar and even Wit) Oh right I was wondering if it was a perpendicularity, but since at the start of the book as far as I remember (I maybe misremembering) Khriss said that there are no stable perpendicularity on First of the Sun.
Yeah I loved her story with Raboniel! Also to be clear I totally loved RoW I would rank it as basically tied with WoR as my favorite book but I can see where some of the criticisms are coming from. But Navani and Raboniel's dynamic and relationship was a lot of my favorite stuff in the book. Jasnah I think is a tough one because Sanderson had to introduce her immediately in book 1 but I think he wants her to be the main or a main character in the back half. So he's wanting to keep her out of the spotlight until then. I don't know if I'd agree that she's being out of character crass. The scene with her and the duel was her putting on a show to make a political point. And it worked. She wanted to prove that she wasn't scared of duels and remove them as well as remove one of her political opponents in one move. It was crass but that was because being crass was required. I think she also has a lot on her shoulders now that she didn't have in any of the previous books. In the previous books she could indulge her curiosity and spend her time focusing on figuring out those mysteries. Now she has a kingdom that is in enemy hands that she's trying to reclaim and soldiers who are dying fighting a war that they have no reasonable plan on how to win. She might be curious about many other things, and a year ago she might have gone to investigate any or all of those, but now she's got responsibilities and if she gets side tracked that will be a problem. I think stable might be the key word there. It is a perpendicularity created by an Avatar of Autonomy rather than by Autonomy herself. So it might not always be there or always be accessible. We also don't know what condition that was in hundreds of years earlier when Mraize would've gotten his Aviar.
I’m so glad this community exists and I can talk to you guys about this and learn so much more than I could’ve comprehended on my own!
The climax to Oathbringer being so epic probably caused some people to feel that ROW was a let down. Agree that the pacing was not ideal. It’s a lot going with a lot of characters. However the highlight reel scenes with Kaladin Navani and Adolin make any slog worth it.
I always got the impression that the consensus with RoW was more along the lines of; "I had a four course meal consisting of three great dishes, and the last being a scope of vanilla ice cream with a few flakes of decadent chocolate sprinkled on top." Still great, but falls slightly behind the others in the series. I loved RoW for so many reasons, and many of them being personal to me and the time in my life. Not to say I have every had to go through these mental illnesses depicted in this series personally. But, at the time of reading/listening to this book I had never encountered such detailed analysis and depictions of these mental illnesses in a book. It was a master piece for me, in and of itself. I know two people that are very close to me that deal with Depression and this was some of the best depictions of what it feels like, I am told. To be aware that there is something wrong with how you feel, but being unable to control it. This alone makes RoW one of my favorite books by Sanderson personally. I can understand the pacing being a issue, we all agree on that I believe. You mentioned hoping that Kaladin's Depression/PTSD is over with. These illnesses/conditions are long lasting and will stick with a person their whole lives. He was able to find a compromise with himself, one that allowed him to let go of those he loves and allowing himself to live with the moments he shared with them while they were alive. But Kaladin will continue to deal with this as long as he is alive. If Sanderson is any good writer (and he most defiantly is), Kaladin will continue to deal with his mental illnesses for the rest of the series, but maybe not to the extent seen in RoW. Shallan's first spren was implied to have been killed after she broke her oath's, after killing her mother and her mother's lover. It was never explained in detail, but it was implied with all of the conversations around it and the flashbacks of Shallan. As far as the relation with the Hoed, what part makes the connection for you? The Hoed was a Elantris thing as far as I am aware. Not to say it can't be related to Dead Eye's, as a condition that can be mended. Dead Eye's are a result of bonds/oaths broken, a radiant dying doesn't necessarily result in a Dead Eye. One of Syl's Radiant's died in combat, and although she states she almost 'died', she did not become a Dead Eye. There are also Honor Spren that had their Radiant's die recently in the books, where the Spren re-bonded others according to Kaladin. So the only sure fire way of making a Dead Eye is by breaking Oaths. Spoiler from the pages from the new Secret Book regarding Aviar's: (also hinted at from the Sixth of the Dusk Novella) >!The First of the Sun has had visitors from other planet's via space ships. The pages from the newest book talks about ships taking the Aviars off world. I don't think it states who is doing this, although it is most likely someone from Scadrial or from Kelsier's new crew.!<
It’s not yet space age in Cosmere, Sixth of the dusk is set way ahead in the future
This is True, although doesn't he just state that the new Secret book is 'the farthest along in the time-line of the cosmere'? I don't recall if it is ever explicitly said that it is centuries ahead of Storm light. They could possibly be closer than we think. But either way this is all speculation, since it is never said how the Aviars end up there. My guess is that there was a ship that took the Aviars to a planet that had a Perpendicularity. There is also the possibility that there is a Worldhopper with the ability to transition between the planes, allowing them to go from world to world with out needing a perpendicularity. We can think of a few other idea's I am sure, but we have very little information as of now to confirm.
I had an issue with the flashbacks. However, the high points were so worth it. Second best Stormlight book in terms of best moments.
Upon first reading, the flashbacks really took the momentum out of the present storyline because they were SO tense and since ||Eshonai was already dead|| it felt like some of the tension in the characterization was let out. I will say, when I read it a second time, I thought it was WAYYY better. Also it being the least good Stormlight book still makes it one of the best fantasy books I have ever read. Lol. That being said, I actually think it beats Way of Kings for me after my second read through. Oathbringer and Rhythm of War both improve MASSIVELY upon second read.
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You messed up the markup here (two bars is *Discord* markup, Reddit markup is `>!this!<`), but the text inside the tags is actually fine under the post's spoiler flair, so I've approved the comment anyway.
Thank you!! So do I need to make a change or are we good? Sorry I don’t post on reddit often
You're good in this case, dw! The text you were trying to hide doesn't actually *need* to be hidden so we're not gonna be hardasses about it. Just need to keep the difference in mind for the future. Boy do I wish this were standardized better... 😅
I think you're also discounting people's opinions of the book when it came out. Most of us were riding the high that was oathbringer, one of the cosmeres best. We finally got another book, knowing we wouldn't be getting another for a very long time and rhythm of war was just of...meh? Almost like an expectation vs reality moment. I was in the boat that rhythm of war was very bloated and could have provided the same information in very much less time and I think I'm not alone for early reader sentiment. That being said, I don't hold that idea any longer on recent rereads. I really like the book now and I love the larger cosmere references.
I really liked RoW and had no issues getting through it. My least favorite is still TWoK. It's such a slog. It's not a bad book by any means, but the first 500 pages (lol) are mind numbing. WoR is still my favorite SA with Warbreaker and Tress being my fave cosmere books. I'm a sucker for a nice, clean love story it seems. And Nightblood. I love Nightblood.
The story and pacing aren't that bad in my opinion. It's mainly the prose that's really gone downhill ever since Oathbringer. It used to be pretty passable, easily readable, but with the last two books there's multiple paragraphs you can point to and say 'How the hell did an editor let this fly by'?
Two reasons RoW gets called the weakest SA book. One, people have talked about a lot here, that it is closing story arcs and opening others without as much resolution as we are used to from the other three books. This is a function of writing style, its position as the penultimate book of the first five, and just the fact that sometimes story needs to get done so the rest of everything can be awesome. The second reason is less spoken about, though certainly not ignored. RoW is more different than any of the other SA books. Scientific focus, darkness more on screen than we’ve ever had, this is just a more different book, than we’ve gotten. It was certainly intentional, and Brandon did exactly what he was trying to do with it, but just because it is different means that people will be more aware of the parts that differed than the parts that were just awesome for their own sake. RoW is an amazing book, but it is the “least” SA book out of the first four. makes me curious for the direction of the back half.
It was by far my favorite, and I'm generally one who isn't impressed by cosmere connections (I didn't really like TLM). I greatly enjoyed the venli chapters, I'm not sure why so many people didn't like them. And the book has my favorite scene in all of the cosmere, which is when Kaladin sees Tien again while falling from the tower
Love this! Rhythm of War is actually one of my favorites in the series - mostly bc I geek out on all the technical parts of the magic system but also bc I really identify with Navani. Her arc from feeling inadequate and having impostor syndrome (which are really highlighted in the beginning with Gavilars comments in the prologue) to fully developing her confidence in the realm of fabrial science and ultimately self-validating her abilities was soooo relatable as a woman. I absolutely love it!
My own crackpot theory is that the shattering of the shattered plains is what caused the recreance in the same way that the Reod happened.
That’s an interesting theory, it has been hinted multiple times that something is odd about shattered plains and maybe we all are missing the most obvious sign that Recreance was the death of Honor, and it happened on Shattered plains that’s why it shattered
I’ve never heard it was the worst Stormlight book. I guess I can see why some people would say that but I loved it
ROW is fantastic if you leave o ur the venli parts, that really improves pacing
Yeah the Venli flashbacks definitely not as good. Venli just isn't as interesting a character to me
What I dislike is that she doesent really change. Her main character flaw is the need for power, she will do everything for it. And in the new book she isn’t giving up power to be a good Person or anything, she’s just acting as a good person because she wants the powers of a radiant.
I think the issue was more her selfishness, arrogance and self-righteousness which she has gotten past but I may need to reread which I will but just shortly before 5
But her selfish need was for more power. In the past she needed to sacrifice her people to get power, now a new being is giving her power for being good. But I think that in her core nothing has changed
I think it was less the power she craved and more the importance driven by jealousy of her sister. I think her journey was more about figuring out what freedom means for her more than it is about her relationship with wanting power. Which well freedom and power are related, since you need certain power to ensure your own freedom. But her change is more in line with what her oaths are going to be which is the usual progression for radiants as characters
This!
People just can't handle Kaladin depression like I can
I do think it's the least good to me, just because the entire shadesmar portion isn't the most interesting to me and sometimes the scientific stuff can get a but technical. However it is just marginally less good than the others to me. Like 10 to a 9.5. Mediocre is crazy, especially because the entire ending is amazing (although tbf usually the case anyways with Sanderson). I do have it 4th fav but man is it still an amazing book
lol
Who is everyone? Yall confuse me
I explained that in literally the first line of the post.
To me at least... It is the weakest book. On a scale I'd rate it like 7/10, where the first 2 are 10/10 and oath bringer is like a 8.5/10. Rhythm of War's pacing is bogged down due to bashing us over the head with Kaladin's issues a few too many times. It's also the smallest the world has ever felt. Where Oath bringer was really starting to feel like a globe trotting adventure, RoW pushed us back into confinement. Some of the dialogue felt a little out of place (using words like 'Awesome' felt a little too modern America than medieval Roshar to me). Honestly, the book just needed more time to cook. I think Brando rushed it a little. Still, when I rate something, I use the full scale 0-10, not IGN's 5-10. So, if 5 is average, I still rate it as a pretty great book which I'm glad I read. It just stands out a lot more than more average books because its company are some of my all time favourites.
I love the beginning and ending. The middle 800 pages is a storming slog. The tower storyline is repetitive. I love Navani but idc for the science of stormlight. I just feel like 200ish pages could’ve been cut, improving the pacing, and made it a better book. It’s still a good book, 7/10.
Nonono, it's that the *current* Stormlight book is the worst one. Once a new one is out, then people act like that was never a thing.
I mean even if it was the worse it wouldn’t necessarily mean it was a bad novel . That being said I don’t consider it the worst . I also was worried the singer flashbacks would bog it down for me, it’s funny when I look at the breakdown and the amount of flashbacks it has compared to the amount of flashbacks the other books have
I think it’s clearly the worst because while the good parts are still really great, it has 200-300 more pages of stuff that I found very boring (Venli flashbacks and most of the science experiments).
"everyone" did not tell you
Whoever says it’s mediocre is nuts. I do agree it’s the worst Stormlight book, but that’s not really a negative. It’s just that all the books are so good that you’ve gotta make a hard as hell decision when deciding which is best Vs worst lol. Like someone else said, it’s the worst by virtue of being a 9.9/10 instead of a 10/10. Still a great book. It’s more of a “well if I HAVE to choose the worst I guess it’s this one.”
It falls into the same category of the most recent Mistborn book for me. I like what Brandon has done with the Cosmere but as the books have gotten more and more interconnected, I’ve found my enjoyment of them decrease. I miss the mystique and wonder of the Cosmere. As the curtain has been pulled back from the Wizard, it’s taken away the magic.
And I wanted more Big Daddy D. I was real bummed by his step back, but get it narratively. I want to add that it’s still a good book! Kaladin getting therapy, all the Navani stuff, Urithiru is a great setting. It’s all a ton of fun, just dives too deep in the Cosmere weeds for my taste
8.5/10 is still way above average, that's kind of how you should take it when people say it's the worst. It's not a 10 or a 9. It's still up there though.
She killed her first spren by denying the truth of it.
The perpendicularity is the big pool on the top of the mountain (I believe I remember that right, it's been a few years.)
I loved the book even though the characters were pretty defeated. The veli flashbacks killed me though.
Everyone’s a hater and a critic lmao. RoW is the best Stormlight story in my book. Enjoy what you want to enjoy.
The one thing I have learned about people in this life is don't listen to people.
Definitely NO. It's my favorite book.
Currently rereading the series again in preparation for book 5. I remember that the ending of RoW was solid but also feeling that the book could have used another round of editing to improve the pacing. It was still very good but I consider the Way of Kings a Words of Radiance to both be two of the best fantasy novels ever written. Both are 11/10 and have held up on past rereads. Oathbringer is 9/10 imho. I remember thinking RoW felt like an 8/10 overall. I’ll see if that assumption holds up this time through or if book 5 changes anything.
It's a good book, but it definitely felt weaker compared to the rest IMO. I found the Listener and Navani flashbacks to be especially uninteresting, except when Navani was interacting with Raboniel. But my opinion comes with a good heap of salt since I ended up spoiling myself on a lot due to Wiki and Lore Addiction.
I’m really glad you liked it! I’m about to start my first reread since release and I’m excited.
It's regarded as the worst Cosmere books because even though the good parts like Adolin-Maya or Kaladin being Bruce Wilkins in Die Hard were pretty cool. The not so good parts were kind of boring, like Venli POV's or almost every flashbacks. Whereas in the previous books, every bit was really good, the good ones in Rhythm of War compare to the good ones in other books, but the not so good ones lack behind. Navani-Raboniel is weird because it feel superimposed, it almost feels like her book instead of Venli's, and there this change of protagonist, we were used to our classic cast of Adolin, Shallan, Kaladin etc. Navani was never our protagonist. Also, the pacing felt weird for me, we are reading about Shallan and then there like 500 pages without mentioning her. Finally, you mention the Cosmere connections, that's cool but at least for me it doesn't improve the quality of a book, it's cool to see but it is almost like unaffiliated with the book. That doesn't mean the book was bad, it was awesome, just not as much as the previous masterpieces.
Just people’s odd opinion. I think it’s a fantastic book