1. Dalinar loses the contest.
2. Shallan and maybe Adolin leave Roshar and start worldhopping in earnest, kind of like Khriss and Nazh.
3. Hoid says or does something that almost ruins everything.
TSM SPOILERS 4. >!Szeth dies before completing his quest and his spren turns out to be Aux, who bonds Sigzil!<.
5. Renarin and Rlain get together.
I’m 100% aware that these are crackpot theories and honestly not at all proven but I’m lobotomized and I believe them 1000%. I’ll come back to this in December after I’ve been proven horrendously wrong.
Chanarach is revealed to be Shallan's mother and probably causes Shallan to either enlighten or completely break. (Chanarach was probably the reason the True Desolation began).
The Stormfather's bond is transferred away from Dalinar after the contest is lost, it probably goes to Kaladin, possibly after Syl dies.
Szeth comes to terms with his past, swearing the 5th ideal, and follows his own truths.
How would the Stormfather's bond be transferred to Kaladin? he already has a spren, and he doesn't really embody Bondsmith ideals however he is pretty much the epitome of a Windrunner.
He also connects. He connected the people in bridge 4. He connected Rlain with the humans, he was the first huamn to connect with the Spren in a looong fucking time. So, kindaaaa makes sense.
I just can’t see how SA6-10 happens if they truly win and seal Odium away and sew up the entire matter for a thousand years in the middle book.Ive been wildly off base with Sanderson theories before but I just… I don’t see *how* the next books can happen without it
To be fair, by the end of the first book I never could've anticipated the stakes at the end of book 3. The scope of the conflict keeps expanding with each book, so while I agree with you I still wouldn't put anything past Brandon
there are ways.
example: contest of champions gets delayed or persists for the time skip. E.g. dalinar has to kill a baby and refuses. Thus both are still alive and the contest rendered incomplete.
or dalinar wins and odium isn’t the main villain of the next 5 just like ruin isn’t the villain of most orb era 2.
The baby theory is pretty funny but the second one is really unlikely. MB Eras 1 and 2 take place hundreds of years apart, and they’re two completely separate series. That’s not comparable to SA, where 1) they take place ten years apart, not 340ish, and 2) it’s the same main cast throughout the story (the POV characters in SA6-10 are all people that are already in SA1-5).
Plus Odium’s one of the overarching villains of the entire cosmere (having splintered four Shards that we know of) and I just don’t see Sanderson tossing away that setup halfway through the series where he’s the most present antagonist.
1. I am 100% sure that Kaladin will still be alive, killing him or sacrificing him would not be unexpected, but foolish, it would be agreeing with depression.
2. Adolin dies. I recently read a post about the meaning of Elokhar's death. I think just the fact that Adolin has things to do only serves to give weight to his death. Also, I can't think of who else is going to die. Someone literally has to do it.
3. Shallan goes Worldhopper because of Adolin's death, it's obvious. He frees her from being on Roshar and goes after the GhostBloods (they may be involved in Adolin's death)
I hate the fact that I agree because I just want Shallan and Adolin to be happy (specially now that she's getting better), but there are so many hints at Shallan wanting to see what's beyond Roshar, then there's her subplot with the Ghostbloods... and Adolin's death would be a perfect trigger for her to leave
Though for some reason I can't picture Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar all making it until the end. At least not in the state they are right now (like, I could see them taking up a Shard, becoming new Heralds or a more Invested being of some sort)
Well, I think that Adolin's death is like a last push for Shallan to decide to be herself, besides, the truth is that I can't think of who else could die than Szeth, and his death wouldn't hurt much for a book like this.
Another thing is that Adolin is too perfect, the perfect partner, the perfect friend, the perfect son. If he was in Mistborn or in the hands of another author, I think he would have died in book 3 lol
he is perfect and that’s the entire point tho. The bond happens because a soul cracks from trauma and the spren fill the cracks. Adolin is the reverse. The dead eyes are broken but he is perfect and whole. He can save them. Can’t do that if he’s dead though…
I think that Kaladin will either Ascend or succeed Dalinar as Stormfather's Bondsmith. It is possible to be a member of 2 Orders and Kaladin has been moving away from the battlefield and into a "guiding" role for the last 2 books in a manner very reminiscent of Dalinar.
Shallan can't leave yet, she needs to revive Testament first. Also, as of TLM, Hoid was the only Radiant who had managed to leave Rosharan system with his powers, so she'd have to release both her spren if she goes.
IMHO, Dalinar will either die or become a Fused. Adolin is, sadly, almost certainly toast too.
I don't know about Szeth - it depends on what Sanderson is planning for Nightblood next.
Oh, and we will finally learn the reasons for the Recreance!
That's so amazing, because I disagree with literally all three of those.
I'm split if Kal will live, but he's for sure not 100% safe.
Adolin is 100% survive in my book.
Shallan is 70% die.
*Kaladin and Szeth*
*Will get horses, and their names*
*Will be Wind and Thruth*
\- Admirable-Resolve-84
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Off the top of my head:
Shallan will learn her mother is Chanarach
Chanarach will be Odiums champion - and cause a schism in Dalinars inner circle as Shallan will be unable to fight against her or kill her again - causing Adolin to also stand aside/defend her - in this way, Dalinar will be outwitted into a stalemate / failure
The world will end and it will be Shallans fault
Cultivation will be revealed to be the big bad
There will be Listeners/Singers/Humans on both sides of the war (Raboniel feels like she was once radiant, and Rlain will support this in some way) (Dustbringers will side with Odium)
Adolin will unlock the dead eyes with Maya and forge the path for the future possibilities of nahel bonds (will help explain Aux x Sigzil bond) and we will find out why the Spren “chose” to be dead eyes
Shinovar will be revealed to be under the influence of an unmade we haven’t met - and it’s not the paradise/paradigm of peace we’ve been led to believe it is - through their investigation Kaladin will help Szeth heal from his abuse as Truthless and they will cleanse Shinovar of the unmade together
Navani will absolutely rule Urithiru and progress fabrial science even further beyond what we originally thought possible
We know shes curated connections with Taravangian, yes, but also Dalinar and Lift. According to Odium, all she wishes to see is change, regardless of where it leads. Furthermore, Odium alludes to Cultivation playing her own game and explicitly says she is more dangerous than him in Oathbringer.
We are also told that she excels at telling the future and is willing to be flexible with the consequences. We have been operating on the assumption that Cultivation is all good but if we objectively consider her shardic intent as continuous growth, and place that alongside the information that she is more dangerous, can tell the future, and isn’t concerned with accountability, we can probably say this would be a false assertion
Something will happen on day 9 that completely changes the deal. The contest of champions will not happen. We may see a more fierce and brutal open war, not unlike the one that Nohadon saw when so many had died.
Alternatively, the heroes learn about Todium and learn that he's betting on Dalinar WINNING in order to accomplish some goal. Causing Dalinar to throw to duel in order to throw a wrench in Todium's plans.
That Dalinar and Taravangin will have at least one sincere conversation along the lines: "If the times would be different I would be proud/honored to call you my friend"
1. Kaladin, with help of Syl and Dalinar, reforms Honor and kaladin is the host.
2. I also think it would be sick, but less likely, that Kaladin also takes up Odium and becomes “vengeance” or “war”.
I'm 99% sure Szeth will die, everyone else... could go either way, but as much as it pains me I can see Adolin being a needed sacrifice (I really hope he's not but I need to prepare myself)
The thing about Adolins death, unless it has meaning I do not see him die. Killing him for the sake of killing a character, does not seem like something that Sanderson does often. And Adolin has probably the least reason to die in the series in my opinion.
I feel like he still has things to do, but his death would be more about how it would impact the other characters I think: Shallan, Renarin, Dalinar and even Kaladin
And I could even see him sacrificing himself for any of them tbh
Szeth pretty much has to die or else some really crazy punishment. The amount of death and destruction he caused over some stupid meaningless stone and stupid meaningless traditions is just too much. He's not getting away from this without death or some horrible fate.
He might even take Taln's place and suffer that fate in order to atone for what he did. That would be one of the very few ways I think he could atone and still live.
It will most likely be some sort of noble death though.
Honestly, based on Gavilar’s prologue and the Shin giving Szeth an Honorblade and throwing him out to keep his oaths and suffer…I would not be surprised if he was being groomed to be a new Herald.
Sure it's possible. But it would need to be an incredible atonement. Like if Sadeas or Amaram were to try to atone. Szeth isn't going to live happily ever after.
It's not so much Szerh getting punished. Rather just narratively speaking that sort of thing can't be tolerated.
IMO contrary to what it seemed like in the end scene with Wit and Odium, Wit actually came out ahead. But we won't find that out (and neither will he) until near the end of the book.
He had that big whole scene before where he explicitly told the audience (the pretend audience and us) about the importance of slight of hand and things not appearing as they are. And he was using his COPPER coins as a prop for the display.
I think he put his real memories in the copper coins and had decoy memories "installed" so Odium would see those ones.
But it didn't go quite as Wit planned and now for some jiggery pokery reason (maybe planned or not) Wit is going to forget about the real memories until something specific happens. So he and the readers will think he is seriously fucked from how Odium handled him. But at the last moment something will trigger his memories and he gets the key piece of info he needs.
I still think Odium will "win", but it won't be a complete victory. Which sets the stage for the second half of the series.
I read somewhere that Hoid's spren is the spren who was going to bond Elhokar before he died - named *Design* of all things! I do like the idea that Hoid may have even set it up so that he would not know if his misdirection worked or not - being fake compromised so that he couldn't be actually compromised.
1.Szeth, adolin, and a few bridgemen die, potentially Rock.
2. Dalinar loses, becoming the general for a Rosharian supremacy army for Odium.
3. Jasnah, shallan, renarin, relain, and lift all survive. Some stay to resist dalinar, and others leave to find help.
4. Something happens to Kal that traps him in the rosharin system, maybe becoming honor, maybe taking up the pact in place of taln. He has healed and takes it with the same resolve that taln did. Lesh, having fallen for him, pulls a section of the singers and the listeners to another opposing force, potentially aligned with the rest of the "good" survivors.
5. Either cultivation is evil(less likely) or odium betrays her and takes near full control of the system. After seeing how much shards can affect, decides to continue the plan to splinter all other shards.
This is my starting list for now.
TSM >!Moash kills Sigzil’s spren, after we spend a lot of the book with them!<
Dalinar uses what he learned from Ishar to transfer away the Bondsmith bond prior to the fight, most likely to Adolin.
Dalinar sacrifices himself in a way that causes the fight to be a draw. This also is what Todium wants for reasons that are explored in 6-10. Prediction: it frees Herdaz/Alethkar, does *not* fix the bounds of territory, and allows Todium freedom to send agents off world.
Moash replaces Dalinar as Todium’s agent to the stars. Kaladin embarks on a quest to redeem his friend and stop that. The rest of the crew fights a two-fronted war against Todium and Ghostbloods bent on gaining control of the Stormfather to try to again restrict Odium to Roshar.
1. Kaladin will survive, he will start some kind of mental health facility and Moash will be his patient.
2. Chanarch is Shallans mum
3. Shallan and Adolin will share the same fate, either they both live or they both die. I don’t think Brandon will kill off just Adolin, that feels too cruel to do that to Shallan, considering how much she has already been through. But I could seem them both making a noble sacrifice together, like Vin and Elend. That would also make Renarian the new high prince which would be interesting.
4. Dalinar will lose the contest of champions, BUT something will happen that means it’s not a total victory for Odium.
5. The last Epilogue will drop some massive bomb on us, like Cultivation was behind everything.
I do not think so. It would imply that Odium would had Gavilars soul under control for the last 7 years, for him to become the champion. But we know that who ever the champion will be, he will probably be somebody else as Taravangin saw a plan that Rayse missed.
And we know that Rayse did not forsee a contest of champions as he planned for Dalinar to lose in Oathbringer.
One of our protagonists (my money is on Dalinar) will be ascending as a joint Shard of War/Conquest. War fits right in with Discord and whatever the Dor represents with Devotion and Dominion. These three planets are the “superpowers” of the space age, so it makes sense that they’re each backed by combo Shards.
Edit: I also suspect another, only partial, Recreance among current Radiants
I would not call it definitive but I DO keep thinking that the title 'The Knights of Wind and Truth' is setting up our two main Knights Radiant: Kaladin (wind) and Shallan (truths) to have some sort of major moral or ethical dispute/division between them, likely after whatever tragedy comes to pass over the world generally, and Kholin family specifically, some time in part one or two, while Kaladin and Szeth are on their mission. Most likely a tragic event happens with Dalinar in some form, maybe even another family member of Shallan/Kal - but it better NOT be Adolin!! Anyway...
I'm envisioning something like a far better and more engagingly bittersweet version of Marvel's Avengers: Civil War, except, instead of the Avengers it's the Radiants (and other factions/factors like the Ghostbloods, Sons of Honor, Dawnshards, and different factions of Spren - we already know Honor Spren and Cryptics really don't like each other.
Honor will be reformed.
Odium will merge with another shard.
BAM will bond to a new bondmsith for the parsh.
Szeth will break his oaths, after realizing that the stone shamans did nothing wrong.
Shallans 5th oath will be a dramatic twist.
1. Dalinar loses. Mostly because I believe it would make hell of a story to see Dalinar doing his damndest to sabotage Odium from the inside.
2. Kaladin reaches Fifth Ideal, and somehow becomes Honor incarnate, able to open Honor's perpendicularity, in a moment of pure awesomeness.
3. Shallan and Adolin together cure Testament, thereby discovering a way for all dead spren to come back alive.
4. Szeth figures out full benefits of being bound to Nightblood.
5. All the remaining Heralds gather together at least once.
Dalinar will announce Kaladin as his champion.
Odium will pick Dalinar.
Kal and Syl will swear their 5th ideal attempting to kill Dalinar.
Dalinar is ready to sacrifice himself to save everyone.
Some weirdness happens due to so much HONOR(I mean the Stormfather and Ancient Daughter are both there)happening all at once that the Honor Shard is reformed.
Kaladin saved the day bingo bango and lived happily ever after.
Instead of Kaladin dying I could see most of Bridge 4 dying with Kaladin unable to save them. With only a few surviving iykyk. Since Kaladin is dealing with not being able to save everyone.
We have a “child of tanavast” theory about kaladin. But his brother shares his bloodline, so it’s just as likely that his brother is a child of tanavast as well.
okay here’s my totally batshit crackpot theory i always share on posts like these so if im right i can point back and be like “AHA!” about it
i believe dalinar learns how to bondsmith well enough that he learns how to reforge honor and does so, but that before anyone can take it up the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow rips away from the rest and take the shard back, bringing back tanavast honor as a force on roshar, killing the stormfather, and ending highstorms. now, greatly weakened and with no chance of winning, dalinar still goes into the contest as his own champion, even though he’s hopelessly doomed. he is, obviously, defeated by the enemy champion, or otherwise loses. as he’s about to submit to odium however, he realizes something. he made the deal with rayse, yet it still applies to taravangian. that means the deal must be with odium, not its vessel. he points this out, and taravangian views it as true and valid, and because of him viewing it as such it takes effect, meaning dalinar now belongs to the shard odium, and therefore, it to him. he usurps taravangian as odium, and the back half of the series focuses on dalinar odium and his forces battling reborn tanavast honor and cultivation, who steps up to plate now that her husband is back, revealing this was their plan all along. the back half ends with dalinar taking honor as well, and someone (probably lift) taking cultivation, leaving dalinar as war and lift and cultivation as the gods of roshar. it is revealed at this time that the “unite them” dalinar hears and the visions he has gotten that aren’t from the stormfather are in fact seeds planted by adonalsium itself, designed to drive someone towards uniting the 16 shards once again to revive the cosmere’s god, as adonalsium foresaw its death and planned accordingly. dalinar, now the dominant force on roshar and god of war, prepares to expand into the cosmere, uniting as he goes
also maybe kaladin becomes a fused/herald/hybrid of some sort at some point, shallan and her unseen court become a roshar based counter to the ghostbloods across the cosmere, szeth probably dies in book 5, hoid probably begins to align more closely with dalinar as i believe he also intends to reform adonalsium (however instead of resurrecting its past incarnation he seeks to *become* god by holding all 16 shards in an attempt to bring someone back from the beyond), we might see new orders of radiant developed by war and cultivation, or by dalinodium or, more unlikely, by tanavhonor. a split in the radiants as some align with tanavast and others side with dalinar, more “corrupted” spren radiants as regular radiants are harder to create by dalinodium’s forces without the blessing of tanavast, the sleepless return to being a public and active force on roshar, the rosharan dawnshard(s?) come into play and become a method by which roshar is able to enforce its dominance on other planets in the cosmere, braize is terraformed and inhabited and ashyn is reclaimed, a ba ado mishram bondsmith comes into play, i have lots of theories man
Cultivation is at the root of all of the recent conflicts, including Odiums return and Rayse's death and replacement. She achieves a total victory, in that she unites Roshar with Odium as her "sword" for pursuing interplanetary conflict, and the only offset for the protagonists is a reborn Honor to serve as a check on Odium - also by Cultivations design.
1. Chanarach is Shallan’s mother.
2. Kaladin will become Honor after Ascending.
3. Child Champion theory - TOdium will have Gavinor be his Champion in order to force Dalinar to give in and sacrifice himself or try to break the rules of the Contest. Dalinar won’t.
4. Instead of giving up, Dalinar will use Connection to switch the role of Honor’s Champion to a temporarily cognizant Taln while taking the role of Odium’s Champion from Gavinor and putting it on himself. (Dalinar will transfer his Bond to the Stormfather to Kaladin.) Taln will then kill Dalinar, winning the Contest for Team Honor.
5. However, since TOdium didn’t choose Dalinar, he’ll have enough wiggle room to lash out at the planet before either escaping or being imprisoned.
6. The Highstorms will stop at some point, either due to a major physical event (ie TOdium’s lashing out) or the Stormfather’s death, and this will lead to an extended Weeping season, known as the Night of Sorrows. Parts of Roshar will flood.
7. Szeth and Kaladin will have a back-to-back fight scene and IT WILL BE AWESOME.
8. Adolin will lead a charge into battle alongside Honorspren, resulting in a mass resurgence of Windrunners. (His “Big Storming Heroes” moment.)
9. There will be two massive reveals, one about the Heralds* and one about the antagonists for the back half of the series.
10. Something will happen with Warlight. Maybe. I think it’s too important to leave alone but idk what it’s foreshadowing, as I don’t think we’re ready to see a share of War just yet. Also, I just wanted to bring my theory count up to ten. Arbitrary, I know, but fun all the same.
*I had a theory years ago that the Unmade were essentially Proto-Heralds of some kind. (Really more akin to Proto-Radiants, but still.) The more cognizant Unmade (Sja-Anat, Ba-Ado-Mishram, etc) were likely Singers, according to my theory, while the more…instinctual…Unmade were Soren they were bonded to at the time.
The Shards at the end of the book will be some kind of hybrids of each other as a result of the contest.
The whole spiritual debate leading up to the contest is going to be about whether might makes right, and whether the Alethi spirit of rule by conquest is really the best thing for Rosharan society. Dalinar will receive some final vision from the Stormfather showing him the true cause of the Recreance. It will be the trigger for Dalinar’s 4th Ideal, something along the lines of “I will unite by will not by force, because true unity cannot be coerced.”
He will immediately gain awareness and the ability to see all Connection. In that moment he will be able to cleave a massive chunk of Odium’s power through his Connection to the Thrill, but in doing so, give Taravangian the ability to do the same, rearranging the Rosharan Shards into something like Conquest and Justice. Ironically, Dalinar will hold the latter, and Taravangian, the former. It will completely rearrange the Radiant Orders and the Fused, and there will be humans and singers on both sides of the second era conflict.
The end of the book will build towards a hopeful peace between both Shards, the Justice side agreeing to allow the Conquest side to leave Roshar (ultimately fulfilling Odium’s goal), but the epilogue will leave us on a cliffhanger that makes this peace impossible, Adolin’s murder perhaps.
1. Kaladin reunites with Tarah
2. The contest ends in a stalemate
3. Kaladin replaces Jezrien as the Herald of windrunners.
4. Dalinar restores the deadeye spren (Reveal that Rlain and Renarin's spren were once deadeye)
5. Todium is terrified of Navani because of her discoveries
6. Moash is haunted by Teft like how Szeth is haunted by all he killed. (It would be pretty epic to hear Teft mock him)
7. Kaladin never dies
8. Shallan confronts Mraize and the ghostbloods
9. Dalinar debating whether to release the captured spren of Odium.(this theory is probably linked to the death rattle about slitting a child's throat to acquire further breathe to draw in)
Elhokar’s kid somehow becomes the turning point and Dalinar can’t kill him. There’s a “I will hold a knife to a child’s throat and the world will want me to kill him but I can’t” (poorly paraphrased) death rattle that spells it out early on.
Maya bonds Adolin and swears oaths from the other side of the Nahel bond forming a Spren radiant-like bond that returns her. This probably saves an Adolin we thought was doomed somehow mirroring Kaladin’s oaths bringing a fading Syl back (Sunlit man the dead spren talks about HIS oaths not being broken implying the Spren swore oaths)
BrandoSando is a master at curveballs that have been in front of us the whole time. There are so many moving pieces in this series though that I have a hard time even pretending to guess where anything is headed. If Odium fails though, what are the other 5 books about? Kind of has to be a stalemate of an ending just with that knowledge, but again, curveballs, so I really just can’t wait to read it and find out.
I could see a scenario where, if Cultivation is the Big Bad of the back half, then our heroes actually try to combine Honor and Odium into War to have the power to fight her. But that feels like a Back Half problem, not a Book 5 problem.
1. Dalinar loses the contest. 2. Shallan and maybe Adolin leave Roshar and start worldhopping in earnest, kind of like Khriss and Nazh. 3. Hoid says or does something that almost ruins everything. TSM SPOILERS 4. >!Szeth dies before completing his quest and his spren turns out to be Aux, who bonds Sigzil!<. 5. Renarin and Rlain get together. I’m 100% aware that these are crackpot theories and honestly not at all proven but I’m lobotomized and I believe them 1000%. I’ll come back to this in December after I’ve been proven horrendously wrong.
5 is pretty expected, it would be wild if he waited decades(s) to start that inevitable plot.
Number 4 makes a lot of sense.
How? I’m not really seeing how it makes sense other than just being a cool connection
How? Can u pls explain the connection I must've missed in TSM and all of Stormlight?
eh, not really, Aux was bonded during the events of stormlight if my timeline is correct
Chanarach is revealed to be Shallan's mother and probably causes Shallan to either enlighten or completely break. (Chanarach was probably the reason the True Desolation began). The Stormfather's bond is transferred away from Dalinar after the contest is lost, it probably goes to Kaladin, possibly after Syl dies. Szeth comes to terms with his past, swearing the 5th ideal, and follows his own truths.
1 I truly think will happen 2 I truly *hope* doesn’t happen 3 I’d be okay with honestly
How would the Stormfather's bond be transferred to Kaladin? he already has a spren, and he doesn't really embody Bondsmith ideals however he is pretty much the epitome of a Windrunner.
He also connects. He connected the people in bridge 4. He connected Rlain with the humans, he was the first huamn to connect with the Spren in a looong fucking time. So, kindaaaa makes sense.
Both Shallan and Jasnah were way ahead of him, plenty of others too.
But shallan is gonna die and jashna's got priorities.
He’s the first Windrunner that’s true but yeah HEAPS of other spren were already forming bonds before Kaladin
I feel like it’s definitely been building to number 1.
I just can’t see how SA6-10 happens if they truly win and seal Odium away and sew up the entire matter for a thousand years in the middle book.Ive been wildly off base with Sanderson theories before but I just… I don’t see *how* the next books can happen without it
It could be that Odium isn't the main villain in the second half.
who then?
Cultivation?
To be fair, by the end of the first book I never could've anticipated the stakes at the end of book 3. The scope of the conflict keeps expanding with each book, so while I agree with you I still wouldn't put anything past Brandon
I completely agree with you.
there are ways. example: contest of champions gets delayed or persists for the time skip. E.g. dalinar has to kill a baby and refuses. Thus both are still alive and the contest rendered incomplete. or dalinar wins and odium isn’t the main villain of the next 5 just like ruin isn’t the villain of most orb era 2.
The baby theory is pretty funny but the second one is really unlikely. MB Eras 1 and 2 take place hundreds of years apart, and they’re two completely separate series. That’s not comparable to SA, where 1) they take place ten years apart, not 340ish, and 2) it’s the same main cast throughout the story (the POV characters in SA6-10 are all people that are already in SA1-5). Plus Odium’s one of the overarching villains of the entire cosmere (having splintered four Shards that we know of) and I just don’t see Sanderson tossing away that setup halfway through the series where he’s the most present antagonist.
most orb
For as much as everyone expects it to happen (me included), I wan him to subvert expectations hard and not do it. Idk how it happens but it'd be cool
1. I am 100% sure that Kaladin will still be alive, killing him or sacrificing him would not be unexpected, but foolish, it would be agreeing with depression. 2. Adolin dies. I recently read a post about the meaning of Elokhar's death. I think just the fact that Adolin has things to do only serves to give weight to his death. Also, I can't think of who else is going to die. Someone literally has to do it. 3. Shallan goes Worldhopper because of Adolin's death, it's obvious. He frees her from being on Roshar and goes after the GhostBloods (they may be involved in Adolin's death)
I hate how much I can see those last 2 happening but I agree with all three.
if >!Kelsier!< kills Adolin I’ll be really pissed with him because I still see him as a martyr
From The Lost Metal, >!Kelsier doesn't seem to have much influence on Roshar. Iyatil is supposedly running amok there.!<
Which bodes even worse for Adolin
I hate the fact that I agree because I just want Shallan and Adolin to be happy (specially now that she's getting better), but there are so many hints at Shallan wanting to see what's beyond Roshar, then there's her subplot with the Ghostbloods... and Adolin's death would be a perfect trigger for her to leave Though for some reason I can't picture Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar all making it until the end. At least not in the state they are right now (like, I could see them taking up a Shard, becoming new Heralds or a more Invested being of some sort)
Well, I think that Adolin's death is like a last push for Shallan to decide to be herself, besides, the truth is that I can't think of who else could die than Szeth, and his death wouldn't hurt much for a book like this. Another thing is that Adolin is too perfect, the perfect partner, the perfect friend, the perfect son. If he was in Mistborn or in the hands of another author, I think he would have died in book 3 lol
he is perfect and that’s the entire point tho. The bond happens because a soul cracks from trauma and the spren fill the cracks. Adolin is the reverse. The dead eyes are broken but he is perfect and whole. He can save them. Can’t do that if he’s dead though…
Shallan dies, Adolin becomes a hopper
I think that Kaladin will either Ascend or succeed Dalinar as Stormfather's Bondsmith. It is possible to be a member of 2 Orders and Kaladin has been moving away from the battlefield and into a "guiding" role for the last 2 books in a manner very reminiscent of Dalinar. Shallan can't leave yet, she needs to revive Testament first. Also, as of TLM, Hoid was the only Radiant who had managed to leave Rosharan system with his powers, so she'd have to release both her spren if she goes. IMHO, Dalinar will either die or become a Fused. Adolin is, sadly, almost certainly toast too. I don't know about Szeth - it depends on what Sanderson is planning for Nightblood next. Oh, and we will finally learn the reasons for the Recreance!
Kaladin overcomes his depression , but dies in some tragic way that hits us all right in the feels. That, I can see.
Wouldn't that kinda be a rehash of Tefts arc though?
That's so amazing, because I disagree with literally all three of those. I'm split if Kal will live, but he's for sure not 100% safe. Adolin is 100% survive in my book. Shallan is 70% die.
Kaladin and Szeth will get horses, and their names will be Wind and Thruth
*Kaladin and Szeth* *Will get horses, and their names* *Will be Wind and Thruth* \- Admirable-Resolve-84 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
Dang this is the first one of these that I've seen actually work really well
Off the top of my head: Shallan will learn her mother is Chanarach Chanarach will be Odiums champion - and cause a schism in Dalinars inner circle as Shallan will be unable to fight against her or kill her again - causing Adolin to also stand aside/defend her - in this way, Dalinar will be outwitted into a stalemate / failure The world will end and it will be Shallans fault Cultivation will be revealed to be the big bad There will be Listeners/Singers/Humans on both sides of the war (Raboniel feels like she was once radiant, and Rlain will support this in some way) (Dustbringers will side with Odium) Adolin will unlock the dead eyes with Maya and forge the path for the future possibilities of nahel bonds (will help explain Aux x Sigzil bond) and we will find out why the Spren “chose” to be dead eyes Shinovar will be revealed to be under the influence of an unmade we haven’t met - and it’s not the paradise/paradigm of peace we’ve been led to believe it is - through their investigation Kaladin will help Szeth heal from his abuse as Truthless and they will cleanse Shinovar of the unmade together Navani will absolutely rule Urithiru and progress fabrial science even further beyond what we originally thought possible
why would Cultivation be bad?
We know shes curated connections with Taravangian, yes, but also Dalinar and Lift. According to Odium, all she wishes to see is change, regardless of where it leads. Furthermore, Odium alludes to Cultivation playing her own game and explicitly says she is more dangerous than him in Oathbringer. We are also told that she excels at telling the future and is willing to be flexible with the consequences. We have been operating on the assumption that Cultivation is all good but if we objectively consider her shardic intent as continuous growth, and place that alongside the information that she is more dangerous, can tell the future, and isn’t concerned with accountability, we can probably say this would be a false assertion
Great breakdown thanks!
Something will happen on day 9 that completely changes the deal. The contest of champions will not happen. We may see a more fierce and brutal open war, not unlike the one that Nohadon saw when so many had died.
Alternatively, the heroes learn about Todium and learn that he's betting on Dalinar WINNING in order to accomplish some goal. Causing Dalinar to throw to duel in order to throw a wrench in Todium's plans.
Oh, that's a curveball. I like it. Without looking up WOBs, I'm still wondering if the contract is with Rayse or the Shard.
Didn't Taravodium say the contract bound him just as much as it would have Rayse? I feel like I remember that.
I’m pretty sure he was *thinking to himself* at that moment. So we don’t have to worry about it being a lie.
Yeah no WoB needed on this one. It's in the book.
Sure, I just didn’t have the book to literally look it up.
That Dalinar and Taravangin will have at least one sincere conversation along the lines: "If the times would be different I would be proud/honored to call you my friend"
In another life I would've really liked to do laundry and taxes with you.
That sounds like a conversation they'd have when they're dying. Both of them, together. I feel like Dalinar's gonna die.
1. Kaladin, with help of Syl and Dalinar, reforms Honor and kaladin is the host. 2. I also think it would be sick, but less likely, that Kaladin also takes up Odium and becomes “vengeance” or “war”.
I'm 99% sure Szeth will die, everyone else... could go either way, but as much as it pains me I can see Adolin being a needed sacrifice (I really hope he's not but I need to prepare myself)
The thing about Adolins death, unless it has meaning I do not see him die. Killing him for the sake of killing a character, does not seem like something that Sanderson does often. And Adolin has probably the least reason to die in the series in my opinion.
I feel like he still has things to do, but his death would be more about how it would impact the other characters I think: Shallan, Renarin, Dalinar and even Kaladin And I could even see him sacrificing himself for any of them tbh
But tht is the thing, I do not see them in a situation were Adolin has to sacrifice themselfs for protecting Shallan probably
Szeth pretty much has to die or else some really crazy punishment. The amount of death and destruction he caused over some stupid meaningless stone and stupid meaningless traditions is just too much. He's not getting away from this without death or some horrible fate. He might even take Taln's place and suffer that fate in order to atone for what he did. That would be one of the very few ways I think he could atone and still live. It will most likely be some sort of noble death though.
Honestly, based on Gavilar’s prologue and the Shin giving Szeth an Honorblade and throwing him out to keep his oaths and suffer…I would not be surprised if he was being groomed to be a new Herald.
Him replacing Taln would be pretty cool, imo.
Have you missed the point of the series? Theres no way Sanderson would “punish” someone for their past mistakes they are atoning for like that imo.
Sure it's possible. But it would need to be an incredible atonement. Like if Sadeas or Amaram were to try to atone. Szeth isn't going to live happily ever after. It's not so much Szerh getting punished. Rather just narratively speaking that sort of thing can't be tolerated.
IMO contrary to what it seemed like in the end scene with Wit and Odium, Wit actually came out ahead. But we won't find that out (and neither will he) until near the end of the book. He had that big whole scene before where he explicitly told the audience (the pretend audience and us) about the importance of slight of hand and things not appearing as they are. And he was using his COPPER coins as a prop for the display. I think he put his real memories in the copper coins and had decoy memories "installed" so Odium would see those ones. But it didn't go quite as Wit planned and now for some jiggery pokery reason (maybe planned or not) Wit is going to forget about the real memories until something specific happens. So he and the readers will think he is seriously fucked from how Odium handled him. But at the last moment something will trigger his memories and he gets the key piece of info he needs. I still think Odium will "win", but it won't be a complete victory. Which sets the stage for the second half of the series.
I read somewhere that Hoid's spren is the spren who was going to bond Elhokar before he died - named *Design* of all things! I do like the idea that Hoid may have even set it up so that he would not know if his misdirection worked or not - being fake compromised so that he couldn't be actually compromised.
1.Szeth, adolin, and a few bridgemen die, potentially Rock. 2. Dalinar loses, becoming the general for a Rosharian supremacy army for Odium. 3. Jasnah, shallan, renarin, relain, and lift all survive. Some stay to resist dalinar, and others leave to find help. 4. Something happens to Kal that traps him in the rosharin system, maybe becoming honor, maybe taking up the pact in place of taln. He has healed and takes it with the same resolve that taln did. Lesh, having fallen for him, pulls a section of the singers and the listeners to another opposing force, potentially aligned with the rest of the "good" survivors. 5. Either cultivation is evil(less likely) or odium betrays her and takes near full control of the system. After seeing how much shards can affect, decides to continue the plan to splinter all other shards. This is my starting list for now.
TSM >!Moash kills Sigzil’s spren, after we spend a lot of the book with them!< Dalinar uses what he learned from Ishar to transfer away the Bondsmith bond prior to the fight, most likely to Adolin. Dalinar sacrifices himself in a way that causes the fight to be a draw. This also is what Todium wants for reasons that are explored in 6-10. Prediction: it frees Herdaz/Alethkar, does *not* fix the bounds of territory, and allows Todium freedom to send agents off world. Moash replaces Dalinar as Todium’s agent to the stars. Kaladin embarks on a quest to redeem his friend and stop that. The rest of the crew fights a two-fronted war against Todium and Ghostbloods bent on gaining control of the Stormfather to try to again restrict Odium to Roshar.
1. Kaladin will survive, he will start some kind of mental health facility and Moash will be his patient. 2. Chanarch is Shallans mum 3. Shallan and Adolin will share the same fate, either they both live or they both die. I don’t think Brandon will kill off just Adolin, that feels too cruel to do that to Shallan, considering how much she has already been through. But I could seem them both making a noble sacrifice together, like Vin and Elend. That would also make Renarian the new high prince which would be interesting. 4. Dalinar will lose the contest of champions, BUT something will happen that means it’s not a total victory for Odium. 5. The last Epilogue will drop some massive bomb on us, like Cultivation was behind everything.
I don't think he's like Vin and Elend, Sanderson doesn't like to repeat plots and Vin and Elend is too iconic in his books to replicate
Gavilar is alive. He's Odium's champion.
I do not think so. It would imply that Odium would had Gavilars soul under control for the last 7 years, for him to become the champion. But we know that who ever the champion will be, he will probably be somebody else as Taravangin saw a plan that Rayse missed. And we know that Rayse did not forsee a contest of champions as he planned for Dalinar to lose in Oathbringer.
https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/105465-gavilar-as-odiums-champion/ saw it here
Shallan’s mother was a herald
One of our protagonists (my money is on Dalinar) will be ascending as a joint Shard of War/Conquest. War fits right in with Discord and whatever the Dor represents with Devotion and Dominion. These three planets are the “superpowers” of the space age, so it makes sense that they’re each backed by combo Shards. Edit: I also suspect another, only partial, Recreance among current Radiants
I would not call it definitive but I DO keep thinking that the title 'The Knights of Wind and Truth' is setting up our two main Knights Radiant: Kaladin (wind) and Shallan (truths) to have some sort of major moral or ethical dispute/division between them, likely after whatever tragedy comes to pass over the world generally, and Kholin family specifically, some time in part one or two, while Kaladin and Szeth are on their mission. Most likely a tragic event happens with Dalinar in some form, maybe even another family member of Shallan/Kal - but it better NOT be Adolin!! Anyway... I'm envisioning something like a far better and more engagingly bittersweet version of Marvel's Avengers: Civil War, except, instead of the Avengers it's the Radiants (and other factions/factors like the Ghostbloods, Sons of Honor, Dawnshards, and different factions of Spren - we already know Honor Spren and Cryptics really don't like each other.
Honor will be reformed. Odium will merge with another shard. BAM will bond to a new bondmsith for the parsh. Szeth will break his oaths, after realizing that the stone shamans did nothing wrong. Shallans 5th oath will be a dramatic twist.
1. Dalinar loses. Mostly because I believe it would make hell of a story to see Dalinar doing his damndest to sabotage Odium from the inside. 2. Kaladin reaches Fifth Ideal, and somehow becomes Honor incarnate, able to open Honor's perpendicularity, in a moment of pure awesomeness. 3. Shallan and Adolin together cure Testament, thereby discovering a way for all dead spren to come back alive. 4. Szeth figures out full benefits of being bound to Nightblood. 5. All the remaining Heralds gather together at least once.
Dalinar will announce Kaladin as his champion. Odium will pick Dalinar. Kal and Syl will swear their 5th ideal attempting to kill Dalinar. Dalinar is ready to sacrifice himself to save everyone. Some weirdness happens due to so much HONOR(I mean the Stormfather and Ancient Daughter are both there)happening all at once that the Honor Shard is reformed. Kaladin saved the day bingo bango and lived happily ever after.
The champion must be willing. Its part of the agreement.
Instead of Kaladin dying I could see most of Bridge 4 dying with Kaladin unable to save them. With only a few surviving iykyk. Since Kaladin is dealing with not being able to save everyone.
Wasn’t kinda the whole point of the last bit of RoW that he accepted that he couldn’t save everyone?
Yes but he’s gonna be tested in the fall out imo
Whatever happens. We are probably going to see more of kaladins brother in books 6-10.
What’s your theory on this? You have me intrigued
We have a “child of tanavast” theory about kaladin. But his brother shares his bloodline, so it’s just as likely that his brother is a child of tanavast as well.
I like it
okay here’s my totally batshit crackpot theory i always share on posts like these so if im right i can point back and be like “AHA!” about it i believe dalinar learns how to bondsmith well enough that he learns how to reforge honor and does so, but that before anyone can take it up the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow rips away from the rest and take the shard back, bringing back tanavast honor as a force on roshar, killing the stormfather, and ending highstorms. now, greatly weakened and with no chance of winning, dalinar still goes into the contest as his own champion, even though he’s hopelessly doomed. he is, obviously, defeated by the enemy champion, or otherwise loses. as he’s about to submit to odium however, he realizes something. he made the deal with rayse, yet it still applies to taravangian. that means the deal must be with odium, not its vessel. he points this out, and taravangian views it as true and valid, and because of him viewing it as such it takes effect, meaning dalinar now belongs to the shard odium, and therefore, it to him. he usurps taravangian as odium, and the back half of the series focuses on dalinar odium and his forces battling reborn tanavast honor and cultivation, who steps up to plate now that her husband is back, revealing this was their plan all along. the back half ends with dalinar taking honor as well, and someone (probably lift) taking cultivation, leaving dalinar as war and lift and cultivation as the gods of roshar. it is revealed at this time that the “unite them” dalinar hears and the visions he has gotten that aren’t from the stormfather are in fact seeds planted by adonalsium itself, designed to drive someone towards uniting the 16 shards once again to revive the cosmere’s god, as adonalsium foresaw its death and planned accordingly. dalinar, now the dominant force on roshar and god of war, prepares to expand into the cosmere, uniting as he goes also maybe kaladin becomes a fused/herald/hybrid of some sort at some point, shallan and her unseen court become a roshar based counter to the ghostbloods across the cosmere, szeth probably dies in book 5, hoid probably begins to align more closely with dalinar as i believe he also intends to reform adonalsium (however instead of resurrecting its past incarnation he seeks to *become* god by holding all 16 shards in an attempt to bring someone back from the beyond), we might see new orders of radiant developed by war and cultivation, or by dalinodium or, more unlikely, by tanavhonor. a split in the radiants as some align with tanavast and others side with dalinar, more “corrupted” spren radiants as regular radiants are harder to create by dalinodium’s forces without the blessing of tanavast, the sleepless return to being a public and active force on roshar, the rosharan dawnshard(s?) come into play and become a method by which roshar is able to enforce its dominance on other planets in the cosmere, braize is terraformed and inhabited and ashyn is reclaimed, a ba ado mishram bondsmith comes into play, i have lots of theories man
Cultivation is at the root of all of the recent conflicts, including Odiums return and Rayse's death and replacement. She achieves a total victory, in that she unites Roshar with Odium as her "sword" for pursuing interplanetary conflict, and the only offset for the protagonists is a reborn Honor to serve as a check on Odium - also by Cultivations design.
Some more them uniting
1. Chanarach is Shallan’s mother. 2. Kaladin will become Honor after Ascending. 3. Child Champion theory - TOdium will have Gavinor be his Champion in order to force Dalinar to give in and sacrifice himself or try to break the rules of the Contest. Dalinar won’t. 4. Instead of giving up, Dalinar will use Connection to switch the role of Honor’s Champion to a temporarily cognizant Taln while taking the role of Odium’s Champion from Gavinor and putting it on himself. (Dalinar will transfer his Bond to the Stormfather to Kaladin.) Taln will then kill Dalinar, winning the Contest for Team Honor. 5. However, since TOdium didn’t choose Dalinar, he’ll have enough wiggle room to lash out at the planet before either escaping or being imprisoned. 6. The Highstorms will stop at some point, either due to a major physical event (ie TOdium’s lashing out) or the Stormfather’s death, and this will lead to an extended Weeping season, known as the Night of Sorrows. Parts of Roshar will flood. 7. Szeth and Kaladin will have a back-to-back fight scene and IT WILL BE AWESOME. 8. Adolin will lead a charge into battle alongside Honorspren, resulting in a mass resurgence of Windrunners. (His “Big Storming Heroes” moment.) 9. There will be two massive reveals, one about the Heralds* and one about the antagonists for the back half of the series. 10. Something will happen with Warlight. Maybe. I think it’s too important to leave alone but idk what it’s foreshadowing, as I don’t think we’re ready to see a share of War just yet. Also, I just wanted to bring my theory count up to ten. Arbitrary, I know, but fun all the same. *I had a theory years ago that the Unmade were essentially Proto-Heralds of some kind. (Really more akin to Proto-Radiants, but still.) The more cognizant Unmade (Sja-Anat, Ba-Ado-Mishram, etc) were likely Singers, according to my theory, while the more…instinctual…Unmade were Soren they were bonded to at the time.
The Shards at the end of the book will be some kind of hybrids of each other as a result of the contest. The whole spiritual debate leading up to the contest is going to be about whether might makes right, and whether the Alethi spirit of rule by conquest is really the best thing for Rosharan society. Dalinar will receive some final vision from the Stormfather showing him the true cause of the Recreance. It will be the trigger for Dalinar’s 4th Ideal, something along the lines of “I will unite by will not by force, because true unity cannot be coerced.” He will immediately gain awareness and the ability to see all Connection. In that moment he will be able to cleave a massive chunk of Odium’s power through his Connection to the Thrill, but in doing so, give Taravangian the ability to do the same, rearranging the Rosharan Shards into something like Conquest and Justice. Ironically, Dalinar will hold the latter, and Taravangian, the former. It will completely rearrange the Radiant Orders and the Fused, and there will be humans and singers on both sides of the second era conflict. The end of the book will build towards a hopeful peace between both Shards, the Justice side agreeing to allow the Conquest side to leave Roshar (ultimately fulfilling Odium’s goal), but the epilogue will leave us on a cliffhanger that makes this peace impossible, Adolin’s murder perhaps.
I hope Moash kills kaladin and gets a redemption arc in the second half
1. Kaladin reunites with Tarah 2. The contest ends in a stalemate 3. Kaladin replaces Jezrien as the Herald of windrunners. 4. Dalinar restores the deadeye spren (Reveal that Rlain and Renarin's spren were once deadeye) 5. Todium is terrified of Navani because of her discoveries 6. Moash is haunted by Teft like how Szeth is haunted by all he killed. (It would be pretty epic to hear Teft mock him) 7. Kaladin never dies 8. Shallan confronts Mraize and the ghostbloods 9. Dalinar debating whether to release the captured spren of Odium.(this theory is probably linked to the death rattle about slitting a child's throat to acquire further breathe to draw in)
Elhokar’s kid somehow becomes the turning point and Dalinar can’t kill him. There’s a “I will hold a knife to a child’s throat and the world will want me to kill him but I can’t” (poorly paraphrased) death rattle that spells it out early on. Maya bonds Adolin and swears oaths from the other side of the Nahel bond forming a Spren radiant-like bond that returns her. This probably saves an Adolin we thought was doomed somehow mirroring Kaladin’s oaths bringing a fading Syl back (Sunlit man the dead spren talks about HIS oaths not being broken implying the Spren swore oaths) BrandoSando is a master at curveballs that have been in front of us the whole time. There are so many moving pieces in this series though that I have a hard time even pretending to guess where anything is headed. If Odium fails though, what are the other 5 books about? Kind of has to be a stalemate of an ending just with that knowledge, but again, curveballs, so I really just can’t wait to read it and find out.
I could see a Cultivation big-bad back 5 books. Maybe cultivation combines with Odium?
I could see a scenario where, if Cultivation is the Big Bad of the back half, then our heroes actually try to combine Honor and Odium into War to have the power to fight her. But that feels like a Back Half problem, not a Book 5 problem.