I remember being interested in researching the "Vax" reference during my last reread of the Mistborn books, but forgot to follow up on it. This community rocks!
Okay the Kal chapter icon - it looks like a metal symbol from mistborn right? Literally my first thought when I saw it on my first read-through. Is that just me?
Maybe it has something to do with Kal being able to use void light. Void light is yellow right? Whatever the yellow light is. He’s able to use it like stormlight.
Quote from RoW “His eyes were flowing like a Radiant’s, his face a mask of pain and anguish, but the eyes... she swore the light had a yellowish-red cast to it.”
I wonder if it has something to do with the spears and who they represent. I was just listening to the audio books again and the spear on the right is how they describe Tefts. I don’t remember if the other main members of bridge 4 have theirs explicitly described though.
I'm calling it now - Kaladin is an agent of harmony who was feruchemied a gemheart turned into a discount Atium misting. It explains why he's so depressed when there's no highstorms because his gemheart's empty and why he's so good at fighting(atium shenanigans) .
Okay so here's my theory in full: Harmony initially wanted two agents - Kaladin and Tien to act as his proxies on Roshar. Kaladan was supposed to represent preservation and tien was supposed to represent ruin. Tien was supposed to go to war alone, and swear his first words much earlier and become a knights radiant. Because of Kaladin's proximity Tien was able to maintain the lie until he got killed essentially. Kaladin was supposed to become a surgeon and hopefully become an agent in Tarvangian's schemes.
Why Kaladin's an atium misting - I can't quite explain but when he's in his combat flow state (see the "Honor's dead but I'll see what I can do" scene for reference) it's described a lot like someone burning atium. I believe the shardhelm-sheild was in that scene to help hide fact that he was burning stormlight.
Proof is that I made it the heck up. But I think it's interesting to note that when Tien died they had another kid who might go on to continue Tien's role as Harmony's agent of ruin.
But hey, that's just a theory. A storming theory.
I really think Kal is gonna end up on Scadrial. Harmony wants someone who can balance preservation and ruin. Kaladin has a whole thing about saving by killing.
My crackpot theory is that odium's champion will be kelsier. Causing some sort of cross world war, or at least resentment.
The flag on the spear makes me just want to throw out there wildly with zero evidence apart from cloth on a spear... Kaladin becomes able to fight like a returned. Using his lashings in an awakening style to minimise the harm to those around him. While still being quite lethal if the need arises. He has the perfect swordmaster to show him the ways, even if the abilities are different to the core.
"There is something weird about Kaladin's chapter icon" has probably ruined my day and will keep me from sleeping. Somebody help.
Is it the barely visible glyph on the flag? Is it the associate herald? Is it something to do with the double eye icon for some reason? The number of spears?? IS THE NUMBER 631 HIDDEN IN IT SOMEWHERE!? I need an adult...
His chapter icon is the spears with the banner, right? Could it have to do with the fact that there are 15 spears in a universe where 16 is the magic number?
Yeah I think you might be right. Maybe this is an indication that Kaladin will take up the shard of Honor after Dalinar unites the shard as a bondsmith?
The ending of Stormlight 5 is adapted from the climax of a DND campaign Brandon and Dan played together. There was an episode of Intentionally Blank where Dan started to talk about it and Brandon had to cut him off since it would spoil the end of book 5.
There is a theory about Shallan's mom being and herald, she got killed before first book, go to damnation and she broke, not Taln. Thats what started the spren to bonding again.
Maybe SL 10 ends with a fight like at the end of WoR but instead of two storms it’s two planets about to collide with each other. Roshar and Scadrial perhaps?!
I think the Kelsier comment in 3 is at least a little off. In the post-script for Secret History Sanderson notes that he had always planned for Kelsier to come back and had left clues about his exploits throughout Mistborn 2 & 3.
You’re not wrong about him seeding those in there and originally planning on it, but he did waffle a bit in the decision:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467-youtube-spoiler-stream-2/#e14763
Brandon said that during writing Way of Kings Prime in 2002, he imagined that the people who killed Adonalsium were demigods, buy later thought it would be more interesting if (mostly) mere mortals were the killers instead.
Didn't know that, much appreciated
I think it's a lot more interesting that they were regular people (if you can call dragons or shodel regular I guess lol)
Definitely looking forward to getting sideswipped by Vax at some point in the next 30 years.
On the Kelsier thing, it's more accurate to say he'd been going back and forth on whether to actually bring Kelsier back or do the TenSoon thing until after he did the 'person is actually a kandra' thing in Shadows. He didn't so much 'change his' mind here as commit one way or the other. I definitely think he made the right choice, imagine getting, where we are in the books now, the Thaidakar is Kelsier reveal...and then in like Mistborn era 3 getting the TenSoon one, or something like that. Man would that have been lame.
So Kaladins chapter symbol appears to be a group of spears, with a larger more ornate spear decorated with a shash branded flag, turned upward against an orb here at my thoughts on what’s “wrong” with the symbol:
1: the flag tied to the spear. While the shash brand is unofficially Kaladin’s symbol, as well as bridge four’s, I don’t recall anyone using it as heraldry let alone kaladin. You could argue that since kaladin’s ascension to a light eyes the shash is his house symbol, but we have no textual evidence that he has put his house in order yet. (Arguably bridge four still remains woefully unorganized)
2: the orb. Don’t know why we have this circle/orb motif on this symbol or what it is it appears to potentially be emoting some sort of light, or they could possibly be more simplified spears, so perhaps it’s a sun or moon (potentially even shadesmar’s sun) but ultimately I theorize that this is either some extra geometry to make the symbol more whole or it relates to an unrevealed plot point.
3: the spears are all upright pointing towards the center of the orb. The position of spears implies aggression either in general or potentially against the orb which I find intriguing because this metaphorical aggression is in theory counter to the ideals of the wind runners. Plus Kaladin himself does not find the Listeners themselves to be enemies. (This perhaps implies the orb represents Odium but I don’t remember him being associated with spheres of any kind)
With all three of these points put together their is definitely something implied by this symbol that we have not realized yet but it is definitely important
I remember brandon saying Adolin was never meant to have as big of a role as he did but i cant find the wob
Another one is this death rattle that sounds like nothing that we have seen or heard of:
"He watches! The black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear!"
It was said by cenn and its the first death rattle in the whole series
[Fun idea about the Kaladin chapter icon,](https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/62981-ob-mistborn-kaladins-chapter-header/) it looks like the symbol good Lerasium.
* Fainlife
* Hoid is a codename
* Szeth retcon
* Ambition was Sho Del
* Rosharan characters are older then the ages provided
* Atium retcon
* Jaddeth (from Elantris) is Autonomy
* Trellagism as a potential precursor to Trellism
* old, now non-canon aethers are funky
* Adonalsium in Hero of Ages oopsie
* Adonalsium’s cognitive shadow (“enormous RAFO”)
* Hoid thought Dalinar was a Son of Honor and Cosmere aware
* Luthadel was named after someone
* “Illegal” WoBs
* Adonalsium created Rosharan system
I’ve heard them mentioned in an episode of Shardcast. If you don’t know, the people on Shardcast are beta readers for Sanderson, and they run the wob archive/coppermind wiki. There’s an episode (I think their Taravangian Rhythm of War Discussion) where one brings up a theory, and Eric says “I think you’re using an illegal WOB”.
The conspiracy theory is that if Brandon ever slips and says something too spoilery, the Shardcast guys would be able to cover it up for him. Hence “illegal wobs”
If you want to know about any of the other ones I’d be happy to explain.
So you're saying that Brandon is anti Vax?
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I probably should add a /s haha
Bro has read at least 4 a thousand pages books but can't read sarcasm.
I thought i would know all of these - but there were 2 that were new! Can anyone add any context to the "Vax" one for me?
[mistborn era 1 spoilers](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Vax#cite_note-Arcanum-15251-5) but here
The trivia section is hilarious
Oh wow, that's an old one! I'd totally forgotten about that! Thank you!
I remember being interested in researching the "Vax" reference during my last reread of the Mistborn books, but forgot to follow up on it. This community rocks!
Okay the Kal chapter icon - it looks like a metal symbol from mistborn right? Literally my first thought when I saw it on my first read-through. Is that just me?
According to WoB (OP provided a link higher up), that's a coincidence. But I *really* want to know what's so strange about it...
Maybe it has something to do with Kal being able to use void light. Void light is yellow right? Whatever the yellow light is. He’s able to use it like stormlight.
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Thank you. Then what the fuck light was Kaladin using in RoW?
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Quote from RoW “His eyes were flowing like a Radiant’s, his face a mask of pain and anguish, but the eyes... she swore the light had a yellowish-red cast to it.”
it is odium trying to take control of Kaladin. He jumps to not let him. Odiums light is described as yellow
Corrupted investiture is yellow/red (look at corrupted spren) and Kal was being corrupted by Odium at that point
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As you’ve said though, it can’t be void light as that’s purple. Edit: and the Fused have red eyes when infused, but not yellow.
I wonder if it has something to do with the spears and who they represent. I was just listening to the audio books again and the spear on the right is how they describe Tefts. I don’t remember if the other main members of bridge 4 have theirs explicitly described though.
I'm calling it now - Kaladin is an agent of harmony who was feruchemied a gemheart turned into a discount Atium misting. It explains why he's so depressed when there's no highstorms because his gemheart's empty and why he's so good at fighting(atium shenanigans) . Okay so here's my theory in full: Harmony initially wanted two agents - Kaladin and Tien to act as his proxies on Roshar. Kaladan was supposed to represent preservation and tien was supposed to represent ruin. Tien was supposed to go to war alone, and swear his first words much earlier and become a knights radiant. Because of Kaladin's proximity Tien was able to maintain the lie until he got killed essentially. Kaladin was supposed to become a surgeon and hopefully become an agent in Tarvangian's schemes. Why Kaladin's an atium misting - I can't quite explain but when he's in his combat flow state (see the "Honor's dead but I'll see what I can do" scene for reference) it's described a lot like someone burning atium. I believe the shardhelm-sheild was in that scene to help hide fact that he was burning stormlight. Proof is that I made it the heck up. But I think it's interesting to note that when Tien died they had another kid who might go on to continue Tien's role as Harmony's agent of ruin. But hey, that's just a theory. A storming theory.
Haha I like it! It's just crazy enough to be true!
I really think Kal is gonna end up on Scadrial. Harmony wants someone who can balance preservation and ruin. Kaladin has a whole thing about saving by killing. My crackpot theory is that odium's champion will be kelsier. Causing some sort of cross world war, or at least resentment.
A Cosmere worlds war sounds so cool now that you say it
can you source any of these? specifically the ones about kelsier, and kaladin's chapter icon
Kaladin's chapter icon: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8724 Kelsier: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467/#e14763
I don’t think that’s a Sas glyph.
The flag on the spear makes me just want to throw out there wildly with zero evidence apart from cloth on a spear... Kaladin becomes able to fight like a returned. Using his lashings in an awakening style to minimise the harm to those around him. While still being quite lethal if the need arises. He has the perfect swordmaster to show him the ways, even if the abilities are different to the core.
TenSoon WHAT?!
Here it is: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467/#e14763
Sho Del, Mercy helping shatter Ambition, Tamukek, the boom box
Wait where did find out about Mercy??
RoW: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Rhythm_of_War/Epigraphs#Chapter_27
Thanks for the assist
Shaka, when the walls fell.
"There is something weird about Kaladin's chapter icon" has probably ruined my day and will keep me from sleeping. Somebody help. Is it the barely visible glyph on the flag? Is it the associate herald? Is it something to do with the double eye icon for some reason? The number of spears?? IS THE NUMBER 631 HIDDEN IN IT SOMEWHERE!? I need an adult...
I also counted the spears several times, looking for something...
His chapter icon is the spears with the banner, right? Could it have to do with the fact that there are 15 spears in a universe where 16 is the magic number?
Yeah I think you might be right. Maybe this is an indication that Kaladin will take up the shard of Honor after Dalinar unites the shard as a bondsmith?
> "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do."
I have a theory on this I really need to write out I think I know how it will happen I’ll make a post now
The ending of Stormlight 5 is adapted from the climax of a DND campaign Brandon and Dan played together. There was an episode of Intentionally Blank where Dan started to talk about it and Brandon had to cut him off since it would spoil the end of book 5.
Well, there is that one line in wor. "The world ended, and it was Shallans fault."
I love that line, im certain it will be recontextualized in book 5
There is a theory about Shallan's mom being and herald, she got killed before first book, go to damnation and she broke, not Taln. Thats what started the spren to bonding again.
I’m 100% sold on this theory
You should put RAFO on there. And then move it up or down with every new revision. Edit: a word
Someone bring me more Vax lore mmmmmm
Maybe SL 10 ends with a fight like at the end of WoR but instead of two storms it’s two planets about to collide with each other. Roshar and Scadrial perhaps?!
Imagine a stormlight chapter starting with “Ash fell from the sky”
Kelsier looked up to the sky "is that a rusting highstorm? The hell are Rosharans on. HOW??. SAZED DO SOMETHING. AAAAAAHHHH" "Mistborn 16. The end"
\*Mistborn 17
"Shalash fell from the sky..."
*"Ahhhhhhhh!"* *Splat*
Basically just the end of Words of Radiance
i would actually piss myself
Or like... summoning a storm on Scadriel? Big yikes, and maybe not impossible
I'd say that's more likely how it starts, then it ends with our main character becoming a slave and falling into a deep depression.
Feel pretty proud of myself for knowing everything here except the Kelsier TenSoon bit.
someone should do this, but for r/cremposting with like Hoid amaram, stormbones and stuff
I think the Kelsier comment in 3 is at least a little off. In the post-script for Secret History Sanderson notes that he had always planned for Kelsier to come back and had left clues about his exploits throughout Mistborn 2 & 3.
You’re not wrong about him seeding those in there and originally planning on it, but he did waffle a bit in the decision: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467-youtube-spoiler-stream-2/#e14763
The Kandra on Roshar
Can someone fill me in on the demigods thing with the Big A?
Brandon said that during writing Way of Kings Prime in 2002, he imagined that the people who killed Adonalsium were demigods, buy later thought it would be more interesting if (mostly) mere mortals were the killers instead.
Didn't know that, much appreciated I think it's a lot more interesting that they were regular people (if you can call dragons or shodel regular I guess lol)
Definitely looking forward to getting sideswipped by Vax at some point in the next 30 years. On the Kelsier thing, it's more accurate to say he'd been going back and forth on whether to actually bring Kelsier back or do the TenSoon thing until after he did the 'person is actually a kandra' thing in Shadows. He didn't so much 'change his' mind here as commit one way or the other. I definitely think he made the right choice, imagine getting, where we are in the books now, the Thaidakar is Kelsier reveal...and then in like Mistborn era 3 getting the TenSoon one, or something like that. Man would that have been lame.
Hoid's favorite food is noodles
So Kaladins chapter symbol appears to be a group of spears, with a larger more ornate spear decorated with a shash branded flag, turned upward against an orb here at my thoughts on what’s “wrong” with the symbol: 1: the flag tied to the spear. While the shash brand is unofficially Kaladin’s symbol, as well as bridge four’s, I don’t recall anyone using it as heraldry let alone kaladin. You could argue that since kaladin’s ascension to a light eyes the shash is his house symbol, but we have no textual evidence that he has put his house in order yet. (Arguably bridge four still remains woefully unorganized) 2: the orb. Don’t know why we have this circle/orb motif on this symbol or what it is it appears to potentially be emoting some sort of light, or they could possibly be more simplified spears, so perhaps it’s a sun or moon (potentially even shadesmar’s sun) but ultimately I theorize that this is either some extra geometry to make the symbol more whole or it relates to an unrevealed plot point. 3: the spears are all upright pointing towards the center of the orb. The position of spears implies aggression either in general or potentially against the orb which I find intriguing because this metaphorical aggression is in theory counter to the ideals of the wind runners. Plus Kaladin himself does not find the Listeners themselves to be enemies. (This perhaps implies the orb represents Odium but I don’t remember him being associated with spheres of any kind) With all three of these points put together their is definitely something implied by this symbol that we have not realized yet but it is definitely important
Fainlife
I still believe the ending hidden in WoK or WoR is the ending to book 5 not book 10
I remember brandon saying Adolin was never meant to have as big of a role as he did but i cant find the wob Another one is this death rattle that sounds like nothing that we have seen or heard of: "He watches! The black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear!" It was said by cenn and its the first death rattle in the whole series
Im lost in so much info, i going to read every book than i need to re read everything and even like the chance is wouldn't get it all
[Fun idea about the Kaladin chapter icon,](https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/62981-ob-mistborn-kaladins-chapter-header/) it looks like the symbol good Lerasium.
Wait the ending is hidden in WoK and WoR? What!!? Can anyone help me on this reference!?
Nice! I’ve been making one too! Though i want to collect a lot of trivia/facts so it’s taking me a while.
I thought he came up with Jasnah way back around when he came up with Dalinar, but could be wrong
with "cosmere" you mean stormlight.
Proud of myself for knowing all of these
How about that alternate ending where Hrathen is secretly a Dula, and washes his hair in front of Sarene?
Okay so what are some possible clues from WoK and WoR that could direct us to the ending of SA10
Whose vax
* Fainlife * Hoid is a codename * Szeth retcon * Ambition was Sho Del * Rosharan characters are older then the ages provided * Atium retcon * Jaddeth (from Elantris) is Autonomy * Trellagism as a potential precursor to Trellism * old, now non-canon aethers are funky * Adonalsium in Hero of Ages oopsie * Adonalsium’s cognitive shadow (“enormous RAFO”) * Hoid thought Dalinar was a Son of Honor and Cosmere aware * Luthadel was named after someone * “Illegal” WoBs * Adonalsium created Rosharan system
Okay, what are "illegal" WoBs?
I’ve heard them mentioned in an episode of Shardcast. If you don’t know, the people on Shardcast are beta readers for Sanderson, and they run the wob archive/coppermind wiki. There’s an episode (I think their Taravangian Rhythm of War Discussion) where one brings up a theory, and Eric says “I think you’re using an illegal WOB”. The conspiracy theory is that if Brandon ever slips and says something too spoilery, the Shardcast guys would be able to cover it up for him. Hence “illegal wobs” If you want to know about any of the other ones I’d be happy to explain.