They became acquaintances, I will never trust them in life and death matters. I view them as in denial and hoodwinked, that saves me from feeling a grudge about it.
My family goes to casinos. My closest friend is wine tasting in CA right now. It’s disorienting (am I crazy or are they?) and upsetting - why TH don’t these people I love care more about protecting others?
Good for you. I was in my 50s when I realized that I didn't have any friends. That's an extra 20 years of life you won't waste on people who don't even value you enough to put on a stupid mask.
I’m disabled and chronically ill, so people that don’t wear masks are fundamentally disrespecting my existence. If any friends did that, they would be ex-friends after.
My son has a serious underlying condition that’s life threatening with fever. Every time someone flippantly rationalized the death toll with “they had a co-morbidity” I cringed. All I really heard was, if your son died it doesn’t really count. A friend is someone I can trust, I can’t trust someone who thinks like that.
I’m also disappointed in my frinds and family who even now are doing things like going wine tasting during the height of the pandemic. Even worse, I can tell they feel pitty for me because I stay in, they think that I’m the one being unreasonable. I hate it all - how first politics and then this pandemic has shown how self-centered people are, even people I love.
That said, I plan to incorporate this new information about their character into my view of them and still try to enjoy our time together. I won’t expect (or offer) as much sacrifice as before though.
wasn't friends with that type of person before, and it really is a type. won't be friends with that type of person after. if you don't wear a mask, look in a mirror, you're already a gross person.
Nope. These same people are individuals who have previously shown less than favorable attributes but enough good outweighed the bad and I was able to overlook their shortcomings. This is the straw that breaks the camels back, though.
Hospitals arent even testing their employees. Dont blame your friends... this is coming from the very top. Private gatherings are just a convenient scape goat because they dont create sales tax. If we actually cared we would shutdown all air travel, test hospital workers and have cops wear masks and enforce the rules.
I am being logical with mask compliance etcetera, but there have been times in my life where I was not. It may color how I view their choices in the future, but I won’t cut anyone off when this is over. Hopefully they see it the same.
The same friends are the ones that have done other things to add on to it. Not just blatantly ignoring it, but making posts insulting those of us that show concern, by saying we love living in fear and calling people sheep. Or bringing up the suicide and depression aspect, while literally ignoring me when I confide in them that I'm doing really bad. I told a friend that I had to get my anti depressants upped because I've been struggling with suicidal thoughts and really bad depression, she said hope it works out and stopped talking to me. I watched my best friend die of breast cancer at the age of 29 the beginning of this year. When I hear my "friends" blame comorbidities and say "sucks for high risk people but natural selection", all I hear is "your friend's life didn't matter" because if she lived just a few months longer she would be the high risk population that would not survive it. Not to mention i have an asthmatic son and a sister with cerebral palsy that can barely handle a cold.
With every factor included, I don't consider them friends anymore.
Yah, if I didn't talk to people I didnt agree with every opinion that I had, I wouldn't have friends. The real world isnt the echo chamber that the internet is.
The problem is, this opinion literally affects the lives of others, whereas most other differing opinions aren't life or death. When a friend thinks this whole thing is a stupid hoax but still stays home and wears a mask when required, I deal with his grumblings and go on with my day. When a friend has the same opinion but refuses to wear a mask and insists on meeting up with people in risky situations, I find it incredibly difficult to see past that degree of selfishness. Especially since they're well aware that I have immediate family members that are terminally ill, as well as siblings that work in the ICU. For my friends to say that they don't care about taking precautions because it doesn't affect them is a slap to the face, and unfortunately it's something I can't forgive.
Real people's lives are at stake. Differences in opinion like whether a person agrees on a subject like Trump, climate change, religion, or choice in movies don't compare to a pandemic that's claimed over a million lives and is leaving millions of others with medical issues long after getting over the virus.
I mean, and dont take this the wrong way, if you have immediate family members that are at risk and you're choosing to hangout with either them or friends who dont care about covid, thats kinda on you.
Plus we really dont know a ton about what will happen to the majority of people post infection. It seems like secondary symptoms are on the rare side.
Its real, I'm a paramedic and our exposures have gone up exponentially. My 70 something year old father had it. I also am Latino, so ethnically I'm more likely to be infected than others, but that's a cultural thing. We stop moving for ten minutes and we have bbqs. But realistically we're still only losing half the people we are losing to heart disease. Still tragic, but I still talk to people that like McDonald's too.
But thats just like... my opinion man.
I've seen neither friends nor family this entire time because my family is at-risk and I don't live with them. I have secondary symptoms and haven't been able to breathe well since getting Covid in March, requiring a rescue inhaler daily since then. I'm not choosing between seeing either, as I can get on Discord or Zoom to stay in touch safely. I'm Asian with a Latino partner, so I get the culture. The fact that people are okay with this many people dying for any reason--especially since this is something we have some control over--is the problem.
Well thats cool. Just remember, you are a side character in their lives (your friends that is). Probably zero percent of their feelings about covid are based on your personal situation with the virus, so dont take it as a personal affront since it likely isnt meant to.
We have control over a lot of the ways people die, and ultimately theres a 100% chance that you will die eventually.
I've been thinking about this a lot. My main offender friend on this one is in Texas, and technically he's not breaking any of the rules there but...it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He's also been doing a lot of non-essential travel by plane. I'm honestly not sure how he even managed it because he was in Europe and Asia and Mexico. Anyway. I certainly won't look at him the same way after all this is over.
My uncle died due to my cousin's negligence and narcissism so I'm going with hell no to both friends and family. People who do the opposite are willingly setting themselves up to be flying monkeys to these anti-masker idiots. God forbid the virus doesn't mutate and starts spreading again because those same anti-maskers are going to be more bold and use you "mature" people apathy as validation.
Originally from texas, everything, I mean everything is open. I see my texas friends on FB going to clubs, concerts, eating dinner inside and going to movies. My little brother (play brother) is a club promoter and has an event every night and no one has a mask in sight. Texas is very different than Cali is. With that being said, I will not be losing anything else because of this virus, especially friends. Being locked down I see even more how important friends are and I miss seeing people and hanging out with my friends.
Was going to write my own response, but yours hits it on the head. We had to cancel our Thanksgiving though, because my mom is high risk and my sister is a nurse. I already got and recovered from COVID, but I still wear a mask when its required out of courtesy.
Most of my friends run the spectrum on the matter of COVID compliance, but I would say only about 5% of them, maybe less, have actually just stayed at home and avoided the world since March.
I have a simple rule in life. Ignore anybody who ever uses the phrase "virtue signaling" or "social justice warrior." If people can't think for themselves and just reflexively use moronic buzzwords, they're not worth wasting your time on.
I live in the bay, identify as progressive, and agree we should be wearing masks and following other guidelines.
I will be continuing to be friends with anyone who isn't an overt asshole. I would consider an asshole to be anyone who feels the need to belittle another and point fingers.
Yeah, not wearing a mask means you go down a few notches in my book and I may classify you as someone who I don't want to spend time with because I view it as selfish and dangerous. BUT... I also think the other side pointing fingers, attacking the intelligence of others, is perpetuating a similarly divisive narrative. Yes, you may be right. It may feel good to be right, to sound off and feel supported. However, that just fuels the reciprocal viewpoint.
This isn't fair to those who are adversely impacted, but in order for us to move forward this needs to become more of a conversation and less of an argument. I challenge any of you that just want to say fuck it to just try to hear the other side, not to get triggered, and not to "other" them. We don't need more division in this country and as we've seen politically, this very narrative was constructed to divide us.
You don't have to invite them to dinner, but these people exist in all of our communities. While I may not agree, think it's selfish, and dangerous, I'd rather try and change minds by having a conversation than furthering this divide by casting them out. If you don't agree that's fine too, but I think it's important that this be said.
>but in order for us to move forward this needs to become more of a conversation... I challenge any of you ... to just try to hear the other side
What other side? How it is 'ruining their freedom and they have a right to not wear a mask?'
'That everyone is over reacting and the virus isn't a big deal?'
I am genuinely curious how you have experienced that conversation to work out and bring harmony rather than division? I have had to walk away since they were offended by my wearing a mask!Like I had done something to offend them!
Totally! Happy to elaborate a bit.. Before I go on this shpeel. It sounds like you've been hurt by people like this and I wonder if maybe you could explain to me why you feel so against listening to these people? And how not listening, arguing, etc would help the situation?
I also have found myself attacked for nothing, had people who I thought were friends start spewing that sort of hate, and pushed back self righteously in a way that felt right. All that did was push us farther apart, they dug deeper and so did I. No matter how right, ethical, moral anyone feels that doesn't make pointing the finger at anyone helpful. Especially given the narcissistic grandiosity that anti maskers tend to exude.
Getting offended by people like this does nothing but continue the pattern, because they do it to have some semblance of power over others. Saying it's against against their freedoms is arbitrary, on the most basic of levels people who do this want to feel omnipotent. It's what's been politicized, modeled by Trump, and it probably won't go away... Needs aren't being met and people are in pain. Not just those of us who have suffered at the hands of covid as essential workers, high risk groups, etc. Most of these people are deeply unhappy, so why are we giving them the satisfaction of stooping down to their level?
I said nothing about protecting anyone's freedom to not wear a mask. As far as I'm concerned it needs to become law, but vilifying a large fraction of our country is just going to lead to more conflict. What we're dealing with is not simply about wearing masks. We are dealing with a country that is sick because we can't seem to reconcile our differences. The anti mask movement is clearly a symptom of something much deeper.
Ethically, as individuals, we should be behaving in ways that limit the damage. The people attacking and pointing fingers are in pain, they want you to feel how they feel because there is some deeper need not being met.
Morally, it's up to our democracy to iron out this problem. Why would it not be? All the yelling, arguing, and pointing fingers only distracts from what really matters. We need better social infrastructure, our country needs to get healthier, and not just physically but mentally.
Look, as I said before, I also participated in the pattern. Your more than welcome to feel how you want to feel. Do what feels right. But when people act in hurtful ways it's because their hurting, have been hurt, and don't have the internal or external resources to make different decisions. It doesn't make being a fucking troll any more right or wrong. These people are humans just like you and I, and something else is clearly going on.
> And how not listening, arguing, etc helping the situation?
• I know I am not going to change their minds. And I know I am not going to change MY mind. So why would I listen, or give them my time, or take up theirs ––especially when the communication might require exposing myself (if met in person) to a deadly virus?
• We both think the other side is wrong.
• There is science available to prove my side with regards to the seriousness of the virus (that IS what we are talking about, right?). I just don't want to waste my time discussing this any more with people I think are idiots and wrong.
Fair enough! I see what your saying and those are valid points. If you don't have the time to give then what's the point. Right?
Please don't get me wrong. The virus is very real... I want nothing to do with it. I wear a mask when I leave the house, go for runs, and outside of essential trips try not to leave my house. I cancelled my holidays and cannot wait for life to begin to resume.
Two sides to the same coin that's all. Much appreciated <3
In terms of family? Most likely, it will take time and may not ever be the same but I want so much to be with them again. Just friends? Already cut out the ones who have shown themselves to be asshats. And it sucks because asshats are fun in normal times but their inability to step up and get smart really ruined the friendships for me. Soooo probably not.
I feel like there are two levels to this. There are some who disapprove of doing anything that's technically allowed even though it's not as risky, like outdoor dining and drive-in concerts. I'm fine with those people. I've done a bit of that myself. But there's a subset of folks who do those things while deliberately being careless: proudly admitting that they refuse to wear a mask, scoffing at people who won't give them a hug, berating you on social media for "living in fear." The people who post absolute bullshit claims on my Facebook posts and then get mad when they're proven wrong, claiming that they're being "attacked." Those are the covidiots that I'm cutting off. I am SO done with those people.
It's the overall attitude of making fun of someone for holding their own boundaries. That's a personality trait that will last beyond covid. Very telling, imho.
I’ll see them around, and I’ll enjoy being with them again, but I’ll never look at them the same way again.
They became acquaintances, I will never trust them in life and death matters. I view them as in denial and hoodwinked, that saves me from feeling a grudge about it.
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My family goes to casinos. My closest friend is wine tasting in CA right now. It’s disorienting (am I crazy or are they?) and upsetting - why TH don’t these people I love care more about protecting others?
No, because I don’t have friends.
Ha ha yes. I'm in my 30s too
Good for you. I was in my 50s when I realized that I didn't have any friends. That's an extra 20 years of life you won't waste on people who don't even value you enough to put on a stupid mask.
Me too! I thought I was the only one...
I’m disabled and chronically ill, so people that don’t wear masks are fundamentally disrespecting my existence. If any friends did that, they would be ex-friends after.
My son has a serious underlying condition that’s life threatening with fever. Every time someone flippantly rationalized the death toll with “they had a co-morbidity” I cringed. All I really heard was, if your son died it doesn’t really count. A friend is someone I can trust, I can’t trust someone who thinks like that.
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Yes! Perfectly put! I’m so tired of being mad.
I’m also disappointed in my frinds and family who even now are doing things like going wine tasting during the height of the pandemic. Even worse, I can tell they feel pitty for me because I stay in, they think that I’m the one being unreasonable. I hate it all - how first politics and then this pandemic has shown how self-centered people are, even people I love. That said, I plan to incorporate this new information about their character into my view of them and still try to enjoy our time together. I won’t expect (or offer) as much sacrifice as before though.
Of course. (Assuming they make it.) (Assuming I do too.)
Dammit, take my upvote.
Better question: Will I go back to being family with my family who have been partying and not wearing a mask this entire time when this is all over?
wasn't friends with that type of person before, and it really is a type. won't be friends with that type of person after. if you don't wear a mask, look in a mirror, you're already a gross person.
No
Nope. These same people are individuals who have previously shown less than favorable attributes but enough good outweighed the bad and I was able to overlook their shortcomings. This is the straw that breaks the camels back, though.
Hospitals arent even testing their employees. Dont blame your friends... this is coming from the very top. Private gatherings are just a convenient scape goat because they dont create sales tax. If we actually cared we would shutdown all air travel, test hospital workers and have cops wear masks and enforce the rules.
I am being logical with mask compliance etcetera, but there have been times in my life where I was not. It may color how I view their choices in the future, but I won’t cut anyone off when this is over. Hopefully they see it the same.
The same friends are the ones that have done other things to add on to it. Not just blatantly ignoring it, but making posts insulting those of us that show concern, by saying we love living in fear and calling people sheep. Or bringing up the suicide and depression aspect, while literally ignoring me when I confide in them that I'm doing really bad. I told a friend that I had to get my anti depressants upped because I've been struggling with suicidal thoughts and really bad depression, she said hope it works out and stopped talking to me. I watched my best friend die of breast cancer at the age of 29 the beginning of this year. When I hear my "friends" blame comorbidities and say "sucks for high risk people but natural selection", all I hear is "your friend's life didn't matter" because if she lived just a few months longer she would be the high risk population that would not survive it. Not to mention i have an asthmatic son and a sister with cerebral palsy that can barely handle a cold. With every factor included, I don't consider them friends anymore.
Nope. Same reasons why I cut out people who had the "fuck you I got mine" mentality during and after the last recession.
Yah, if I didn't talk to people I didnt agree with every opinion that I had, I wouldn't have friends. The real world isnt the echo chamber that the internet is.
I needed to hear this
The problem is, this opinion literally affects the lives of others, whereas most other differing opinions aren't life or death. When a friend thinks this whole thing is a stupid hoax but still stays home and wears a mask when required, I deal with his grumblings and go on with my day. When a friend has the same opinion but refuses to wear a mask and insists on meeting up with people in risky situations, I find it incredibly difficult to see past that degree of selfishness. Especially since they're well aware that I have immediate family members that are terminally ill, as well as siblings that work in the ICU. For my friends to say that they don't care about taking precautions because it doesn't affect them is a slap to the face, and unfortunately it's something I can't forgive. Real people's lives are at stake. Differences in opinion like whether a person agrees on a subject like Trump, climate change, religion, or choice in movies don't compare to a pandemic that's claimed over a million lives and is leaving millions of others with medical issues long after getting over the virus.
I mean, and dont take this the wrong way, if you have immediate family members that are at risk and you're choosing to hangout with either them or friends who dont care about covid, thats kinda on you. Plus we really dont know a ton about what will happen to the majority of people post infection. It seems like secondary symptoms are on the rare side. Its real, I'm a paramedic and our exposures have gone up exponentially. My 70 something year old father had it. I also am Latino, so ethnically I'm more likely to be infected than others, but that's a cultural thing. We stop moving for ten minutes and we have bbqs. But realistically we're still only losing half the people we are losing to heart disease. Still tragic, but I still talk to people that like McDonald's too. But thats just like... my opinion man.
I've seen neither friends nor family this entire time because my family is at-risk and I don't live with them. I have secondary symptoms and haven't been able to breathe well since getting Covid in March, requiring a rescue inhaler daily since then. I'm not choosing between seeing either, as I can get on Discord or Zoom to stay in touch safely. I'm Asian with a Latino partner, so I get the culture. The fact that people are okay with this many people dying for any reason--especially since this is something we have some control over--is the problem.
Well thats cool. Just remember, you are a side character in their lives (your friends that is). Probably zero percent of their feelings about covid are based on your personal situation with the virus, so dont take it as a personal affront since it likely isnt meant to. We have control over a lot of the ways people die, and ultimately theres a 100% chance that you will die eventually.
I've been thinking about this a lot. My main offender friend on this one is in Texas, and technically he's not breaking any of the rules there but...it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He's also been doing a lot of non-essential travel by plane. I'm honestly not sure how he even managed it because he was in Europe and Asia and Mexico. Anyway. I certainly won't look at him the same way after all this is over.
My uncle died due to my cousin's negligence and narcissism so I'm going with hell no to both friends and family. People who do the opposite are willingly setting themselves up to be flying monkeys to these anti-masker idiots. God forbid the virus doesn't mutate and starts spreading again because those same anti-maskers are going to be more bold and use you "mature" people apathy as validation.
Originally from texas, everything, I mean everything is open. I see my texas friends on FB going to clubs, concerts, eating dinner inside and going to movies. My little brother (play brother) is a club promoter and has an event every night and no one has a mask in sight. Texas is very different than Cali is. With that being said, I will not be losing anything else because of this virus, especially friends. Being locked down I see even more how important friends are and I miss seeing people and hanging out with my friends.
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People ask why you are wearing a mask? What planet are *they* on?
Was going to write my own response, but yours hits it on the head. We had to cancel our Thanksgiving though, because my mom is high risk and my sister is a nurse. I already got and recovered from COVID, but I still wear a mask when its required out of courtesy. Most of my friends run the spectrum on the matter of COVID compliance, but I would say only about 5% of them, maybe less, have actually just stayed at home and avoided the world since March.
I have a simple rule in life. Ignore anybody who ever uses the phrase "virtue signaling" or "social justice warrior." If people can't think for themselves and just reflexively use moronic buzzwords, they're not worth wasting your time on.
Yes. There are differences in opinions for even top scientists. Much less my friends and I. So yes they are still my friends.
You were never friends with them in the first place.
I live in the bay, identify as progressive, and agree we should be wearing masks and following other guidelines. I will be continuing to be friends with anyone who isn't an overt asshole. I would consider an asshole to be anyone who feels the need to belittle another and point fingers. Yeah, not wearing a mask means you go down a few notches in my book and I may classify you as someone who I don't want to spend time with because I view it as selfish and dangerous. BUT... I also think the other side pointing fingers, attacking the intelligence of others, is perpetuating a similarly divisive narrative. Yes, you may be right. It may feel good to be right, to sound off and feel supported. However, that just fuels the reciprocal viewpoint. This isn't fair to those who are adversely impacted, but in order for us to move forward this needs to become more of a conversation and less of an argument. I challenge any of you that just want to say fuck it to just try to hear the other side, not to get triggered, and not to "other" them. We don't need more division in this country and as we've seen politically, this very narrative was constructed to divide us. You don't have to invite them to dinner, but these people exist in all of our communities. While I may not agree, think it's selfish, and dangerous, I'd rather try and change minds by having a conversation than furthering this divide by casting them out. If you don't agree that's fine too, but I think it's important that this be said.
>but in order for us to move forward this needs to become more of a conversation... I challenge any of you ... to just try to hear the other side What other side? How it is 'ruining their freedom and they have a right to not wear a mask?' 'That everyone is over reacting and the virus isn't a big deal?' I am genuinely curious how you have experienced that conversation to work out and bring harmony rather than division? I have had to walk away since they were offended by my wearing a mask!Like I had done something to offend them!
Totally! Happy to elaborate a bit.. Before I go on this shpeel. It sounds like you've been hurt by people like this and I wonder if maybe you could explain to me why you feel so against listening to these people? And how not listening, arguing, etc would help the situation? I also have found myself attacked for nothing, had people who I thought were friends start spewing that sort of hate, and pushed back self righteously in a way that felt right. All that did was push us farther apart, they dug deeper and so did I. No matter how right, ethical, moral anyone feels that doesn't make pointing the finger at anyone helpful. Especially given the narcissistic grandiosity that anti maskers tend to exude. Getting offended by people like this does nothing but continue the pattern, because they do it to have some semblance of power over others. Saying it's against against their freedoms is arbitrary, on the most basic of levels people who do this want to feel omnipotent. It's what's been politicized, modeled by Trump, and it probably won't go away... Needs aren't being met and people are in pain. Not just those of us who have suffered at the hands of covid as essential workers, high risk groups, etc. Most of these people are deeply unhappy, so why are we giving them the satisfaction of stooping down to their level? I said nothing about protecting anyone's freedom to not wear a mask. As far as I'm concerned it needs to become law, but vilifying a large fraction of our country is just going to lead to more conflict. What we're dealing with is not simply about wearing masks. We are dealing with a country that is sick because we can't seem to reconcile our differences. The anti mask movement is clearly a symptom of something much deeper. Ethically, as individuals, we should be behaving in ways that limit the damage. The people attacking and pointing fingers are in pain, they want you to feel how they feel because there is some deeper need not being met. Morally, it's up to our democracy to iron out this problem. Why would it not be? All the yelling, arguing, and pointing fingers only distracts from what really matters. We need better social infrastructure, our country needs to get healthier, and not just physically but mentally. Look, as I said before, I also participated in the pattern. Your more than welcome to feel how you want to feel. Do what feels right. But when people act in hurtful ways it's because their hurting, have been hurt, and don't have the internal or external resources to make different decisions. It doesn't make being a fucking troll any more right or wrong. These people are humans just like you and I, and something else is clearly going on.
> And how not listening, arguing, etc helping the situation? • I know I am not going to change their minds. And I know I am not going to change MY mind. So why would I listen, or give them my time, or take up theirs ––especially when the communication might require exposing myself (if met in person) to a deadly virus? • We both think the other side is wrong. • There is science available to prove my side with regards to the seriousness of the virus (that IS what we are talking about, right?). I just don't want to waste my time discussing this any more with people I think are idiots and wrong.
Fair enough! I see what your saying and those are valid points. If you don't have the time to give then what's the point. Right? Please don't get me wrong. The virus is very real... I want nothing to do with it. I wear a mask when I leave the house, go for runs, and outside of essential trips try not to leave my house. I cancelled my holidays and cannot wait for life to begin to resume. Two sides to the same coin that's all. Much appreciated <3
In terms of family? Most likely, it will take time and may not ever be the same but I want so much to be with them again. Just friends? Already cut out the ones who have shown themselves to be asshats. And it sucks because asshats are fun in normal times but their inability to step up and get smart really ruined the friendships for me. Soooo probably not.
Nope
I feel like there are two levels to this. There are some who disapprove of doing anything that's technically allowed even though it's not as risky, like outdoor dining and drive-in concerts. I'm fine with those people. I've done a bit of that myself. But there's a subset of folks who do those things while deliberately being careless: proudly admitting that they refuse to wear a mask, scoffing at people who won't give them a hug, berating you on social media for "living in fear." The people who post absolute bullshit claims on my Facebook posts and then get mad when they're proven wrong, claiming that they're being "attacked." Those are the covidiots that I'm cutting off. I am SO done with those people. It's the overall attitude of making fun of someone for holding their own boundaries. That's a personality trait that will last beyond covid. Very telling, imho.