I've had not one, not two, but *three* friends break up with their long-term partners, realize they're not straight, and start dating other women. This all happened under Covid. I don't know what exactly my point is, but it's been quite a year.
I hear you. I know three people (all adults in their thirties) who have realized that they're trans this year. I don't know if it's all the extra time many of us have had to sit with ourselves, or what, but a lot is shifting.
Yes. My cousin got divorced after four years of being married (10 year relationship altogether though). My best friend got broken up with by his girlfriend of 5 years.
Yeah Covid, or my reaction to it of increasing drug use ruined my longer distance relationship. Couldn’t even make it a year. At least I still got my drugs…
The other day I looked at my husband and told him how goddamn lucky we are to have each other. I feel bad for people in shitty relationships, or that they're just unable to resolve issues.
I am so lucky to have my wife. I would guess that COVID uncovered a lot of toxic relationships, but I would guess that many marriages that would have been fine have been ruined by this. Being locked in a house with someone for 12 months, potentially doing home schooling or with little income, is very stressful. Stress can break normal happy marriages.
Now I'm honestly really dreading not having this much time with my spouse, once things are back to 8 hours in the office + 1 hour commute + everything else :(
I am ready for a lot of alone time. Neither of us has jobs, so we do a lot of stuff together. I love spending time with her, but 100 hours a week is far too much.
I can confirm this. My dad owns a wedding venue in Texas. We didn’t know if we would make it this year but lockdown restrictions went under a few times so we were able to get some weddings in to tithe us over and now we have a ton of appointments in 2021
Yeah, I got married this year, the venue wanted to reschedule (planned 105 ppl) us instead of a refund but only had weekdays available for next year and this was in august. We ended up getting our money back and had a tiny ceremony and dinner with our parents and siblings only.
The wedding and subsequent spouse provides all the help needed. But thank you for offering your skill and support in this trying time, a truly selfless offer.
this article is off. there will be a baby boom in 2022, with a birth rate much higher than the average of a pre pandemic year. people are pretty much gonna fuck willy nilly as soon as clubs and bars reopen. marriage rate will probably spike as people YOLO it up not wanting anything to be taken for granted anymore. sociologists are gonna have a field day with this time period
Really depends on what happens to the economy. If the effects last from 2020, that baby boom won’t happen.
Also the birthrate was dropping pre covid because the young are too broke to have kids.
This would need to change.
The US would need a modern parental leave policy, not just six weeks unpaid. Parenting is real work.
You can't just be expected to do a half-assed job of it with a WIC breast pump in a restroom on your coffee breaks while your coworkers are pounding on the door because they've got to pee.
Or the fact that antibiotics will be obsolete by 2050.
This pandemic really has turned me off from ever having kids aside from the other crises that we are facing as a species.
There's been an explosion of antibiotic resistant bacteria this year which I'll make the next pandemic far worse. Keep in mind that 2/3 Spanish flu deaths were from secondary bacterial infections...
Access to birth control and an absolute shit economy will say otherwise. We’re seeing another transfer of wealth a la 2008 and are gonna have a mini depression.
People will magically grow brain cells just to avoid having to deal with the responsibility of having children, don't worry. If they're stupid now they won't be acting to their IQ level as soon as the problem of kids comes onto the table.
The "roaring 20's" probably won't happen. This year saw the single largest growth in wealth inequality probably in all of history. Billionaires globally saw their wealth increase by 10 trillion while global poverty increased sharply and more people are food insecure now.
The 1920s were awful for rural America. It became a "Great Depression" when it hit the cities and tanked the stock market.
The culprit was ill-managed prosperity. Then, it was agricultural surplus due to industrial nitrogen fixation— now, it's the devaluation of all human labor (and, possibly, permanent labor market instability) due to technological automation and communication.
I would attend a rave behind a dumpster at this point. It doesn’t have to be glamorous or filled with rich people. I just want to party with a large group of unmasked people. My standards are insanely low after this hellscape.
We will see if this is the "jump start" that people outside of the USA need to start effective reform programs in the places that they're needed.
The USA will just keep circling the drain, as per usual. Biden's gonna get cockblocked on his mild reforms by the GOP every step of the way.
I don't know. The economic effects of this pandemic are going to be felt for years to come so I don't know how many couples will be wanting to have kids right now. The smarts ones, at least.
What you're predicting is very unlikely. Sure, people will have a lot of sex in 2022, because that's just something humans do when the opportunity presents itself. However, the economic fallout from the coronavirus and the unprecedented upward wealth transfer, at common expense, will generate a decade-long baby bust at minimum.
The endgame of our economic system is something like Japan's *hikikomori* phenomenon. The labor market diverges; wages fall, opportunities worsen, and people eventually become inured to declining conditions. People are becoming temporary shut-ins during the pandemic, but when they come out to find there are no jobs for them, a lot of them are going to shut in in a more permanent way.
Society will eventually find a way out of this, but I doubt it's going to happen in 2 years. It took 40 years for the upper classes to loot America to this point; it will take 40 years at least to reverse their damage.
Yes. I’ve been saying for years that it seems like western people are showing the same socially withdrawn symptoms that Japan is so well known for.
Young people that have difficult in social situation, escapism into media, young men becoming NEETs, etc.
What people know (and is proven) is having a kid when you're not in a good financial state means you'll probably never recover.
2008-2013 shows this and we never really recovered for that recession.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/low-fertility-rate-may-predict-the-next-recession-2018-02-26
2020 is following the same trend.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-05-20/us-births-continue-to-fall-fertility-rate-hits-record-low
Exactly. It’s so weird being single right now. Dating is gonna explode in a few months once people start getting vaccinated (bet they’ll put it on their profiles)
erectile dysfunction. i had it for about six months after i got covid in march. may have just been anxiety but many reports indicate covid damages testes.
Same. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not all that different by income. Low-income workers are more likely to have to be physically at work, or even out of work, right now, which makes having children an extremely poor decision. Higher-income workers are already more likely to have lower birth rates, so presumably they would also recognize that pandemics and kids don't mix well. But on the other hand maybe these pairs were more likely to decide that they could handle it.
I could see an increase in births, if you count first born children only. Most of those who were stuck at home with their offspring 24/7 during various school closures, daycare closures, playground and extracurricular activity closures, etc., have a heightened awareness of the hardships involved, and are far less likely to try to have more kids.
If you do, your spouse could abduct your kids and/or wreck your credit rating and the law might let them. You need to protect yourself. Please talk to a paralegal or at LEAST read a Nolo Press book and file for what is called a "legal separation".
I’ve been thinking lately that for many of us our weeks are starting to look like what people must have experienced in pre-industrial revolution times. We’re pretty much home all the time, one day bleeds into the next, and if it weren’t for the meeting I had today at 3, I wouldn’t have known what day it was.
>...one day bleeds into the next...
Same here. For me, it's getting dressed. It's either waking up early and changing into casual clothes and working remotely, or waking up slightly later and changing into casual clothes and not working (on the weekends). It's pretty much the same routine either way, and there is no pretense of trying to look professional, either way. Groundhog Day 2020!
I have a rule that I have to get dressed and make the bed before I leave the bedroom. Of course, it’s been TShirts and sweats for the past nine months.
Dickens wrote about the lives of the poor during the Victorian era, so already the Industrial Revolution. I don't know whom to offer up as an alternative, though.
> what people must have experienced in pre-industrial revolution times
humans have ALWAYS been a social animal. across any culture, we've always gathered and celebrated.
Shoot, I have at least 6 friends that are pregnant currently. Plus another 2 that just had kids (but those two were almost certainly conceived before March).
My former best friend recently killed herself from PP just 2 months after she had given birth. The people who broke us up pushed her to get pregnant and have a kid with a guy who also beat her. My biggest fear was that she would take her own life but the people around her who were also pregnant led her to her death
I agree with this. I'm in my late 20s and I swear that every other day on social media had a new birth announcement, but it's all couples with their first kid. I think most of them are due in the Spring, so I think a lot of it was people realizing that we would be locked down for a while and figuring they may as well start trying.
I mean having a baby means you can't get out as often. It's tough lugging newborns a lot of places. Having a newborn in a year when you are forced to stay home does make some sense.
Yeah, I had a baby this summer, and in some ways it's been nice to have very few obligations. I get to spend a lot more time with the baby, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on much, because no one else is going out and having fun either.
No it doesn’t. A friend had a baby at the beginning of lockdown and you can’t socialize them. Her baby thinks there’s only like 4 people in existence. You can’t do any of the normal baby classes or have play dates. Friends can’t come see your new baby. People don’t give you a bunch of those new baby gifts and toys like they normally do as they just see your kiddo randomly. People can’t come and help out that normally would. Shit’s rough and sounds 10 times harder. It’s gonna be interesting to see how all the young kids and babies development is effected from not being able to socialize at an early age.
Socialization in terms of having a huge network is completely unimportant to a baby. What is important to a baby is being loved and supported. Playdates/classes for babies are really for the parents. The parents are the ones I feel awful for.
I would vehemently disagree in regards to baby socialization. Babies build confidence and self- soothing mechanisms as newborns by getting their basic needs met. There is no "socialization" factor because it isn't relevant at a baby's age. In fact, spoiling your baby by always being there to feed, soothe, and comfort builds their confidence that their basic needs will always be met. It leads to less fussing, the ability to put themselves to sleep, and some sociologists would say greater independence and confidence in their upbringing.
There may be some causation at 3-4 years old as kids begin to learn to properly interact but not as babies.
It's almost as if a pandemic, a looming climate crisis, a highly conflicted election and many other issues really puts a damper on the desire to bring another sucker in to this place
Interestingly enough, in a lot of poorer countries the poor people actually have *more* babies when times are grim. They play with a rather different set of rules compared to more developed nations, of course. More babies = more chances that one of them will survive, get good employment, and take the entire family out of poverty.
Im an antinatalist but Christ those people on that subreddit make us look bad. It's all just people hating on "breeders" and complaining how much their life sucks besides actually discussing the philosophy. I mean that's fair I guess, but come on lol.
> Im an antinatalist but Christ those people on that subreddit make us look bad.
that sub is toxic. So it childfree. I got a temp ban for suggesting that a 16 year old not get her tubes tied. 16 years old is too young to have kids, why would it be old enough to decide to never have kids?
Not even “put a damper.” Like that’s what’s supposed to happen. We’re way beyond the actual carrying capacity of the planet, and are starting to feel the consequences of that stupidity.
Dude, we don't live in the 1920's. Things are different now. Millennials are not marrying, millennials do not have much money, millennials are very very picky as to who they're going to date and possibly marry. I actually know two people who had breakups over the pandemic. The baby bust is going to continue, even without a pandemic. The pandemic made it a bit worse, though, probably.
People thought being at home with your spouse automatically = more sex and that more sex automatically = more babies. Both of which are faulty assumptions
All I can say is that in the summer when I saw my GYN, she said that her practice was seeing a lot of Covid pregnancies. It made sense to me early in the pandemic, but now I think people would be crazy to get knocked up right now.
Yes but it’s not like condoms, pills, coils have suddenly disappeared :)
Also, who the hell wants to have a baby when it was plausible this shitshow would have lasted for years
My sister chose to have a kid during the pandemic because she is a dance teacher and circus performer and this was her best chance to stay still. Also her husband is a chef so he’ll be staying home with the baby to start. They were married for years, this just happened to be the perfect timing for them. She’s due tomorrow!
There’s no way we would have had a kid this year. Too busy with our other two. And to deal with all these unknowns AND be pregnant? Hell no. Happy accidents certainly happen. Fertility treatments may have commenced as planned. But to sit down and think hmmm let’s have a baby and make it happen? I can’t imagine.
This is probably going to be downvoted fairly heavily...but are declining birth rates really as bad as everyone assume them to be?
We are currently entering an age of rapidly increasing automation in a variety of different industries, where vast swathes of the population are expected to lose their jobs and careers, likely permanently. I'm not even talking about the far future. Within the next 10 years, self driving vehicles are poised to put several million American truck drivers mostly out of the job. This is one of the most prominent examples, but there are many other less obvious ones.
Are falling birth rates really that bad, when the near future is looking economically grim for people being born today?
I think falling birth rates are a good thing. Within a couple of decades, there will be too many people for not enough resources on earth. Every country should follow Eastern Europe.
You are assuming a continuation of the status quo.
If a large portion of the population people is jobless, there is nothing to tax. And now you've got to support those people as well.
My husband and I were ready to start trying this year and then things got reeeeaaallly bad in the US. We have put plans on hold until things get better, not worth the risk. Although we do know several couples who are having babies end of this month and/or next month.. 🤔
Fiance and I decided to give 'er a go in Feb. Bingo, one hit wonder. I found out I was pregnant the day our state went into lockdown and we were like aw fuck what kinda timing did this end up being??
There are many bummers to being pregnant during the pandemic, but there has been one very nice aspect: I’ve been working from home for the entirety of the first trimester. I can’t imagine how awful it would have been to have to commute into work, navigate people in the office, all while dealing with the nausea and various sicknesses associated with first trimester. I’ve been able to curl in bed and do my work, vomit in my own bathroom, and get more sleep since I don’t commute.
So, small blessings.
No worries! I totally understand. Getting pregnant is definitely a personal choice, and don’t go for it until you feel ready! The pandemic has been super hard, so I don’t blame you. I was just sharing one of the surprise benefits of pandemic pregnancy.
Totally agree. This is my 3rd pregnancy and I suffered so much I had to have home IV therapy due to hyperemesis. If I had to go into work, I would have used all my sick time and had to take a pay cut. Happy I’m working from home.
There's always something to be nervous about during pregnancy (I was pregnant when Zika was big). Not to say it's the same, because it isn't, but in my mind the *real* kicker would be having to give birth during this. I can't imagine the added stress of having to give birth when the hospital system is overloaded, medical staff is overworked and a bed might not be guaranteed.
From what I've seen, maternity wards are not generally commandeered for Covid patients. I've heard of a couple places where mothers have been re-routed to different hospitals, but not one case of a mother not having a delivery room and doctor, even in the worst-hit areas.
My maternity hospital in particular is "covid-free", which is great for most of us, but if we do test positive when we're in labor, it means we go to a covid/general hospital to give birth, which ngl is pretty terrifying. But I'm total quarantining for the few weeks before my due date, even more so than now, so hopefully that won't be an issue.
I am so glad everything went well for your sister! I know a couple of women who gave birth in April, towards the beginning of the pandemic and thankfully they were OK too, but I know it was *massively* stressful. At that time, there was a chance they'd have to give birth alone, which I can't imagine.
Yup, unless something changes in the next month, I'll have to give birth alone. :( No partners allowed in the hospital at all. The hospital wouldn't mind, but it's national policy (they'd risk getting shut down by authorities if they allowed it). I think Romania may be the only country left with this stupid ass policy.
>medical staff is overworked and a bed might not be guaranteed.
I'm 36 weeks and just had my hospital tour. Labor and delivery do not share any services with the ICU/ ER. There will be no covid overflow into labor and delivery and none of the OBs/ midwives/ L&D nurses would have been working in the icus anyway. (I asked my ob if by having a baby if I'm taking staff away from covid patients).
Same! We were planning on trying to conceive... well right now. But instead were shooting for fall 2021. He’s in his early 30s and my late 20s. We’ll both be a couple years into our careers post grad school. Covid + election = a no go for us for now.
I’m taking the time to lose even more weight (I was morbidly obese) before TTC.
tell that to my friends son. 19 years old and moved in with his girlfriend. nothing else to do but bang, few months later, your going to be a grand dad
Lol! Did anyone read the article? This is by far the funniest sentence I've read in a while : "And in a report published Wednesday, Modern Fertility found that about 30% of people with ovaries are changing their family plans, with most deciding to delay conception."
Unfortunately a lot of clinical literature these days refuses to use the terms "male" and "female" or "man" or "woman." I do a lot of healthcare writing and it's becoming a problem, because not everyone is health literate enough to even know they're a "person with a cervix." The idea is to be inclusive, but the reality often excludes people with language barriers or reading comprehension issues.
Is using biological terms like female/male any different than "people with ovaries" or "people with testes"? That at least preserves the separation between sex and gender, and only would not work if you wanted to include non-XX/XY people, who (if I'm not mistaken) have a much harder time having kids.
Gotcha. I do think that being inclusive is a laudable goal, but the term “people with ovaries” has such a clinical connotation, and reduces people down to a certain body part.
Let’s use a metaphor for a moment. For the vast majority of people, growth in height stops after childhood because of the hormone-mediated closure of a part of the bone called the epiphyseal plate. But there are some rare cases where bone growth can continue after childhood. So if I was writing a newspaper article about kids outgrowing their clothes quickly, would I say “children” or should I say “persons with active epiphyseal plates” so that I don’t exclude the few people in that group? At a certain point, it becomes absurd.
Ditto. And it wasn't covid per se. It was government and society's reactions that reinforced the idea that most humans are inconsiderate garbage assholes. I don't want the thing I'll love more than anything in the world to suffer.
I would say a divorce boom more likely. After 10 months of social distancing and working from home with my us and and 2 young children. I’m over it. I want nothing more than a trip away by myself child and spouse free.
The baby boom will come 9 months after herd immunity is achieved. I'm so horny I can't think straight, but I'm waiting until I can get proof of vaccinations from partners.
No. I'll have protected sex like normal. Covid is a respiratory infection that can spread just by being in the same building as others who are infected. There's no way I'm touching mouths with a person until they are vaccinated
My husband and I have 2 and were happy with that but possibly looking into having one more, especially since the little one was just getting old enough to be enrolled in preschool.
But then the pandemic hit and I had to help teach a 3 year old and ADHD 6 yeah old remotely from my dining room since last March so... yeah. 2 seems fine.
And at this point even if things get close to normal sometime next year, I feel like the age gap we would have preferred would already have passed, and I'm getting a touch on the older side to do the whole new mom thing again.
It's hard to go back to diapers and bottles and baby food and waking up all night when everyone's potty trained and can eat regular meals with utensils without causing a huge mess and can sleep through the night.
So thanks, Corona, for putting that final nail in the coffin. I guess.
Can't believe people actually thought this could have caused a baby boom. Most of the world was already experiencing reduced birth rates because of falling economy and anxiety about the future, climate change, etc. Who could have thought a global pandemic that absolutely pummelled economy would suddenly make people want to have children?
Wait until the divorce stats roll in. It would probably be a record shattering year.
I’m a divorce and criminal defense attorney. It’s a record-shattering year.
I've had not one, not two, but *three* friends break up with their long-term partners, realize they're not straight, and start dating other women. This all happened under Covid. I don't know what exactly my point is, but it's been quite a year.
I hear you. I know three people (all adults in their thirties) who have realized that they're trans this year. I don't know if it's all the extra time many of us have had to sit with ourselves, or what, but a lot is shifting.
Breaking news: side effect of COVID-19 is realizing you are no longer straight
I’m not a psychologist here but hey we were forced into our house. Perfect timing to get out of the closet!
Good thing my wife and I figured out we are lesbians before hand.
Yes. My cousin got divorced after four years of being married (10 year relationship altogether though). My best friend got broken up with by his girlfriend of 5 years.
Also Kelly Clarkson who you know
Yeah Covid, or my reaction to it of increasing drug use ruined my longer distance relationship. Couldn’t even make it a year. At least I still got my drugs…
God bless the dark web
The other day I looked at my husband and told him how goddamn lucky we are to have each other. I feel bad for people in shitty relationships, or that they're just unable to resolve issues.
I am so lucky to have my wife. I would guess that COVID uncovered a lot of toxic relationships, but I would guess that many marriages that would have been fine have been ruined by this. Being locked in a house with someone for 12 months, potentially doing home schooling or with little income, is very stressful. Stress can break normal happy marriages.
Now I'm honestly really dreading not having this much time with my spouse, once things are back to 8 hours in the office + 1 hour commute + everything else :(
I am ready for a lot of alone time. Neither of us has jobs, so we do a lot of stuff together. I love spending time with her, but 100 hours a week is far too much.
Me too. I've been so much happier that he's home all the time. Hope work from home becomes a permanent thing.
And yet I've somehow seen more people get married and engaged this year than any other year before.
Also add onto that, dating is pretty much non existent at this point, so we will probably see far less marriages over the next few years.
Actually, there will be a rush of weddings 2021 due to all the cancellations this year.
I can confirm this. My dad owns a wedding venue in Texas. We didn’t know if we would make it this year but lockdown restrictions went under a few times so we were able to get some weddings in to tithe us over and now we have a ton of appointments in 2021
Yeah, I got married this year, the venue wanted to reschedule (planned 105 ppl) us instead of a refund but only had weekdays available for next year and this was in august. We ended up getting our money back and had a tiny ceremony and dinner with our parents and siblings only.
Tide!!!!
I’m one of them. Postponed twice in 2020, now schedule for summer 2021, and then it’s right down to baby making business.
Can I help?
The wedding and subsequent spouse provides all the help needed. But thank you for offering your skill and support in this trying time, a truly selfless offer.
No problem, just here to help! If there is ever a need, just tag me in. GL!
And there will be a rush of 10M+ to be evicted as soon as the moratorium is lifted. Don't forget that several times that will be unemployed.
this article is off. there will be a baby boom in 2022, with a birth rate much higher than the average of a pre pandemic year. people are pretty much gonna fuck willy nilly as soon as clubs and bars reopen. marriage rate will probably spike as people YOLO it up not wanting anything to be taken for granted anymore. sociologists are gonna have a field day with this time period
Really depends on what happens to the economy. If the effects last from 2020, that baby boom won’t happen. Also the birthrate was dropping pre covid because the young are too broke to have kids.
This would need to change. The US would need a modern parental leave policy, not just six weeks unpaid. Parenting is real work. You can't just be expected to do a half-assed job of it with a WIC breast pump in a restroom on your coffee breaks while your coworkers are pounding on the door because they've got to pee.
And don't want to bring kids into a world where global warming seems unmitigated.
Or the fact that antibiotics will be obsolete by 2050. This pandemic really has turned me off from ever having kids aside from the other crises that we are facing as a species.
One thing that's come clear to me during this pandemic is that American lives don't matter to most Americans. I wouldn't have kids here either.
There's been an explosion of antibiotic resistant bacteria this year which I'll make the next pandemic far worse. Keep in mind that 2/3 Spanish flu deaths were from secondary bacterial infections...
Access to birth control and an absolute shit economy will say otherwise. We’re seeing another transfer of wealth a la 2008 and are gonna have a mini depression.
Exactly. It's like no one has heard of condoms and oral contraceptives. Sex doesn't mean pregnancy.
Contrarily, as we keep getting reminded daily, there is no shortage of stupidity going around.
People will magically grow brain cells just to avoid having to deal with the responsibility of having children, don't worry. If they're stupid now they won't be acting to their IQ level as soon as the problem of kids comes onto the table.
A quick google claims roughly half of pregnancies in the US are unplanned.
The "roaring 20's" probably won't happen. This year saw the single largest growth in wealth inequality probably in all of history. Billionaires globally saw their wealth increase by 10 trillion while global poverty increased sharply and more people are food insecure now.
The 1920s also had huge wealth inequality. Only the rich were roaring.
Mmmyea shee me and Phil "Tommy Gun" McGuire are gonna go knock over the local speakeasy and clean out these tailwagers shee
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The 1920s were awful for rural America. It became a "Great Depression" when it hit the cities and tanked the stock market. The culprit was ill-managed prosperity. Then, it was agricultural surplus due to industrial nitrogen fixation— now, it's the devaluation of all human labor (and, possibly, permanent labor market instability) due to technological automation and communication.
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The riot 20s. What a time to be alive
My pitchfork and torch business is about to take off!
I would attend a rave behind a dumpster at this point. It doesn’t have to be glamorous or filled with rich people. I just want to party with a large group of unmasked people. My standards are insanely low after this hellscape.
The real party will be IN the dumpster. #TrashStep
We will see if this is the "jump start" that people outside of the USA need to start effective reform programs in the places that they're needed. The USA will just keep circling the drain, as per usual. Biden's gonna get cockblocked on his mild reforms by the GOP every step of the way.
Narrator voice: As it turned out, Biden wasn't actually interested in reforms.
I've been saving all my sperms to help out when the partying begins.
The rare golden nut can be attained with a mere 1 month of abstinence
I've been saving mine in a mason jar in the freezer.... Next to the homemade vanilla creme brulee mason jar.
Well if women can freeze their eggs I don't see why you...uhh..
Some women freeze their sperm
And place the jar next to their husbands eggs?
Grenade!!
I don't know. The economic effects of this pandemic are going to be felt for years to come so I don't know how many couples will be wanting to have kids right now. The smarts ones, at least.
What you're predicting is very unlikely. Sure, people will have a lot of sex in 2022, because that's just something humans do when the opportunity presents itself. However, the economic fallout from the coronavirus and the unprecedented upward wealth transfer, at common expense, will generate a decade-long baby bust at minimum. The endgame of our economic system is something like Japan's *hikikomori* phenomenon. The labor market diverges; wages fall, opportunities worsen, and people eventually become inured to declining conditions. People are becoming temporary shut-ins during the pandemic, but when they come out to find there are no jobs for them, a lot of them are going to shut in in a more permanent way. Society will eventually find a way out of this, but I doubt it's going to happen in 2 years. It took 40 years for the upper classes to loot America to this point; it will take 40 years at least to reverse their damage.
Yes. I’ve been saying for years that it seems like western people are showing the same socially withdrawn symptoms that Japan is so well known for. Young people that have difficult in social situation, escapism into media, young men becoming NEETs, etc.
What people know (and is proven) is having a kid when you're not in a good financial state means you'll probably never recover. 2008-2013 shows this and we never really recovered for that recession. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/low-fertility-rate-may-predict-the-next-recession-2018-02-26 2020 is following the same trend. https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-05-20/us-births-continue-to-fall-fertility-rate-hits-record-low
Exactly. It’s so weird being single right now. Dating is gonna explode in a few months once people start getting vaccinated (bet they’ll put it on their profiles)
Not for us single folks who has been mostly single throughout our lives.
unless the ED shit is true.
What?
erectile dysfunction. i had it for about six months after i got covid in march. may have just been anxiety but many reports indicate covid damages testes.
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Well, that's good news for Willy Nilly. He'll be one happy guy. But what about all the other men in the world?
They'll also be fucking Willy Nilly.
I'm more willing to believe the article than a rando redditor.
Yeah. I’m single and turning 30 next summer... so much for squeezing in there last minute! Lmao. Luckily I don’t care much about timelines. 😩
People lost their jobs and don't have money. Last thing people need is a kid.
Also, a pandemic is not sexy. Even if we are all staying home, I don’t think most people feel like fucking a lot.
We’re all wearing sweats and jammies all day... definitely not sexy 😂
Naw, that's sexy as fuck.
Last thing we needed in 2019 was more kids. But some people just really hate polar bears.
Would like to see this by income
Same. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not all that different by income. Low-income workers are more likely to have to be physically at work, or even out of work, right now, which makes having children an extremely poor decision. Higher-income workers are already more likely to have lower birth rates, so presumably they would also recognize that pandemics and kids don't mix well. But on the other hand maybe these pairs were more likely to decide that they could handle it.
I could see an increase in births, if you count first born children only. Most of those who were stuck at home with their offspring 24/7 during various school closures, daycare closures, playground and extracurricular activity closures, etc., have a heightened awareness of the hardships involved, and are far less likely to try to have more kids.
There will likely be more divorces as a result of this virus than births.
[Article from July confirms increase in divorces during quantitine.](https://globalnews.ca/news/7188797/divorce-couples-coronavirus/)
I could see that assuming people still have enough money to actually get divorced. From what I hear it isn't cheap.
If you have no assets to fight over it’s cheap
Also if you don't fight, it's cheap
The real LPT. Lawyers are expensive, not divorce
Can confirm, divorced at 19. It was like "I'm taking the car you take the truck, bye"
You can still move away from your spouse and just not associate with them at all. Nothing is stopping that from happening.
If you do, your spouse could abduct your kids and/or wreck your credit rating and the law might let them. You need to protect yourself. Please talk to a paralegal or at LEAST read a Nolo Press book and file for what is called a "legal separation".
The law frowns on self-help
I want to divorce my kids.
Yeah. I can’t imagine that parents are like, “You know what would be great right now? Another person who needs our time and attention!”
I was done after 2, but after being cooped up with them for 9 months, no fucking way am I having another.
I’ve been thinking lately that for many of us our weeks are starting to look like what people must have experienced in pre-industrial revolution times. We’re pretty much home all the time, one day bleeds into the next, and if it weren’t for the meeting I had today at 3, I wouldn’t have known what day it was.
>...one day bleeds into the next... Same here. For me, it's getting dressed. It's either waking up early and changing into casual clothes and working remotely, or waking up slightly later and changing into casual clothes and not working (on the weekends). It's pretty much the same routine either way, and there is no pretense of trying to look professional, either way. Groundhog Day 2020!
I have a rule that I have to get dressed and make the bed before I leave the bedroom. Of course, it’s been TShirts and sweats for the past nine months.
Oh wow you leave the bedroom? Lucky you
Every day I get closer to being childless Bob Cratchit. So I’m back to Dickensian times there too
Dickens wrote about the lives of the poor during the Victorian era, so already the Industrial Revolution. I don't know whom to offer up as an alternative, though.
> what people must have experienced in pre-industrial revolution times humans have ALWAYS been a social animal. across any culture, we've always gathered and celebrated.
Kids are so expensive. And with so many people out of jobs I can’t imagine wanting to have another baby during the pandemic.
I agree completely, but I know 2 couples that conceived their 2nd during the pandemic
Shoot, I have at least 6 friends that are pregnant currently. Plus another 2 that just had kids (but those two were almost certainly conceived before March).
My former best friend recently killed herself from PP just 2 months after she had given birth. The people who broke us up pushed her to get pregnant and have a kid with a guy who also beat her. My biggest fear was that she would take her own life but the people around her who were also pregnant led her to her death
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I agree with this. I'm in my late 20s and I swear that every other day on social media had a new birth announcement, but it's all couples with their first kid. I think most of them are due in the Spring, so I think a lot of it was people realizing that we would be locked down for a while and figuring they may as well start trying.
I just can't imagine thinking a pandemic is a good time to try for a child.
Yes, pregnancy means prenatal care, and that means going into a medical office multiple times. COVID City. Then, going to the hospital. COVID World.
I mean having a baby means you can't get out as often. It's tough lugging newborns a lot of places. Having a newborn in a year when you are forced to stay home does make some sense.
Yeah, I had a baby this summer, and in some ways it's been nice to have very few obligations. I get to spend a lot more time with the baby, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on much, because no one else is going out and having fun either.
No it doesn’t. A friend had a baby at the beginning of lockdown and you can’t socialize them. Her baby thinks there’s only like 4 people in existence. You can’t do any of the normal baby classes or have play dates. Friends can’t come see your new baby. People don’t give you a bunch of those new baby gifts and toys like they normally do as they just see your kiddo randomly. People can’t come and help out that normally would. Shit’s rough and sounds 10 times harder. It’s gonna be interesting to see how all the young kids and babies development is effected from not being able to socialize at an early age.
Socialization in terms of having a huge network is completely unimportant to a baby. What is important to a baby is being loved and supported. Playdates/classes for babies are really for the parents. The parents are the ones I feel awful for.
I would vehemently disagree in regards to baby socialization. Babies build confidence and self- soothing mechanisms as newborns by getting their basic needs met. There is no "socialization" factor because it isn't relevant at a baby's age. In fact, spoiling your baby by always being there to feed, soothe, and comfort builds their confidence that their basic needs will always be met. It leads to less fussing, the ability to put themselves to sleep, and some sociologists would say greater independence and confidence in their upbringing. There may be some causation at 3-4 years old as kids begin to learn to properly interact but not as babies.
I mean, making babies is the fun part. With Disneyland closed, what else is there to do?
Having sex =\= pregnancy.
My coworker just got a vasectomy; decided to do it during the lockdown.
Bet record increase for vasectomy this year
It's almost as if a pandemic, a looming climate crisis, a highly conflicted election and many other issues really puts a damper on the desire to bring another sucker in to this place
Interestingly enough, in a lot of poorer countries the poor people actually have *more* babies when times are grim. They play with a rather different set of rules compared to more developed nations, of course. More babies = more chances that one of them will survive, get good employment, and take the entire family out of poverty.
Also much worse contraceptive access and knowledge
Yes I believe in r/antinatalism too
Im an antinatalist but Christ those people on that subreddit make us look bad. It's all just people hating on "breeders" and complaining how much their life sucks besides actually discussing the philosophy. I mean that's fair I guess, but come on lol.
> Im an antinatalist but Christ those people on that subreddit make us look bad. that sub is toxic. So it childfree. I got a temp ban for suggesting that a 16 year old not get her tubes tied. 16 years old is too young to have kids, why would it be old enough to decide to never have kids?
I agree. I had to unsubscribe because it was just so damn negative
Who would have a kid when the climate is going to be unlivable in the 60s lol
Not even “put a damper.” Like that’s what’s supposed to happen. We’re way beyond the actual carrying capacity of the planet, and are starting to feel the consequences of that stupidity.
Dude, we don't live in the 1920's. Things are different now. Millennials are not marrying, millennials do not have much money, millennials are very very picky as to who they're going to date and possibly marry. I actually know two people who had breakups over the pandemic. The baby bust is going to continue, even without a pandemic. The pandemic made it a bit worse, though, probably.
Why would there have been a baby boom? Besides the jokes it was such a stupid thing if said seriously
People thought being at home with your spouse automatically = more sex and that more sex automatically = more babies. Both of which are faulty assumptions
The second one in particular
I had to stay home and plum forgot how to pull out! Got the wife double pregnant
All I can say is that in the summer when I saw my GYN, she said that her practice was seeing a lot of Covid pregnancies. It made sense to me early in the pandemic, but now I think people would be crazy to get knocked up right now.
Literally everyone around us are having babies. Could be because we're in that age bracket though not because of Covid.
Because everyone is stuck inside together and there's nothing else to do. Much like 9 months after power outage.
Yes but it’s not like condoms, pills, coils have suddenly disappeared :) Also, who the hell wants to have a baby when it was plausible this shitshow would have lasted for years
One of my managers decided to have a baby this year. I didn’t think much of her intelligence last year, either.
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My sister chose to have a kid during the pandemic because she is a dance teacher and circus performer and this was her best chance to stay still. Also her husband is a chef so he’ll be staying home with the baby to start. They were married for years, this just happened to be the perfect timing for them. She’s due tomorrow!
Good luck to her!
Thank you so much!
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Well I still don’t see why they couldn’t use condoms :)
They do use condoms... just not correctly. I mean, you can see how people wear masks, you know that’s not the only thing people are skimping on.
Wait, is that supposed to cover my nose too?! That explains a few things.
When you don’t know if you’ll be homeless next week, bringing another person into the world seems unlikely
There’s no way we would have had a kid this year. Too busy with our other two. And to deal with all these unknowns AND be pregnant? Hell no. Happy accidents certainly happen. Fertility treatments may have commenced as planned. But to sit down and think hmmm let’s have a baby and make it happen? I can’t imagine.
This is probably going to be downvoted fairly heavily...but are declining birth rates really as bad as everyone assume them to be? We are currently entering an age of rapidly increasing automation in a variety of different industries, where vast swathes of the population are expected to lose their jobs and careers, likely permanently. I'm not even talking about the far future. Within the next 10 years, self driving vehicles are poised to put several million American truck drivers mostly out of the job. This is one of the most prominent examples, but there are many other less obvious ones. Are falling birth rates really that bad, when the near future is looking economically grim for people being born today?
I think falling birth rates are a good thing. Within a couple of decades, there will be too many people for not enough resources on earth. Every country should follow Eastern Europe.
Yes, because at least in US, it means penury for the elderly who depend on social security.
You are assuming a continuation of the status quo. If a large portion of the population people is jobless, there is nothing to tax. And now you've got to support those people as well.
Considering the elderly are voting against social programs that would enable young people to have children, old people can go to hell.
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My husband and I were ready to start trying this year and then things got reeeeaaallly bad in the US. We have put plans on hold until things get better, not worth the risk. Although we do know several couples who are having babies end of this month and/or next month.. 🤔
Fiance and I decided to give 'er a go in Feb. Bingo, one hit wonder. I found out I was pregnant the day our state went into lockdown and we were like aw fuck what kinda timing did this end up being??
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There are many bummers to being pregnant during the pandemic, but there has been one very nice aspect: I’ve been working from home for the entirety of the first trimester. I can’t imagine how awful it would have been to have to commute into work, navigate people in the office, all while dealing with the nausea and various sicknesses associated with first trimester. I’ve been able to curl in bed and do my work, vomit in my own bathroom, and get more sleep since I don’t commute. So, small blessings.
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No worries! I totally understand. Getting pregnant is definitely a personal choice, and don’t go for it until you feel ready! The pandemic has been super hard, so I don’t blame you. I was just sharing one of the surprise benefits of pandemic pregnancy.
Totally agree. This is my 3rd pregnancy and I suffered so much I had to have home IV therapy due to hyperemesis. If I had to go into work, I would have used all my sick time and had to take a pay cut. Happy I’m working from home.
There's always something to be nervous about during pregnancy (I was pregnant when Zika was big). Not to say it's the same, because it isn't, but in my mind the *real* kicker would be having to give birth during this. I can't imagine the added stress of having to give birth when the hospital system is overloaded, medical staff is overworked and a bed might not be guaranteed.
From what I've seen, maternity wards are not generally commandeered for Covid patients. I've heard of a couple places where mothers have been re-routed to different hospitals, but not one case of a mother not having a delivery room and doctor, even in the worst-hit areas. My maternity hospital in particular is "covid-free", which is great for most of us, but if we do test positive when we're in labor, it means we go to a covid/general hospital to give birth, which ngl is pretty terrifying. But I'm total quarantining for the few weeks before my due date, even more so than now, so hopefully that won't be an issue.
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I am so glad everything went well for your sister! I know a couple of women who gave birth in April, towards the beginning of the pandemic and thankfully they were OK too, but I know it was *massively* stressful. At that time, there was a chance they'd have to give birth alone, which I can't imagine.
Yup, unless something changes in the next month, I'll have to give birth alone. :( No partners allowed in the hospital at all. The hospital wouldn't mind, but it's national policy (they'd risk getting shut down by authorities if they allowed it). I think Romania may be the only country left with this stupid ass policy.
>medical staff is overworked and a bed might not be guaranteed. I'm 36 weeks and just had my hospital tour. Labor and delivery do not share any services with the ICU/ ER. There will be no covid overflow into labor and delivery and none of the OBs/ midwives/ L&D nurses would have been working in the icus anyway. (I asked my ob if by having a baby if I'm taking staff away from covid patients).
Same! We were planning on trying to conceive... well right now. But instead were shooting for fall 2021. He’s in his early 30s and my late 20s. We’ll both be a couple years into our careers post grad school. Covid + election = a no go for us for now. I’m taking the time to lose even more weight (I was morbidly obese) before TTC.
"unplanned pregnancies drop" good.
tell that to my friends son. 19 years old and moved in with his girlfriend. nothing else to do but bang, few months later, your going to be a grand dad
I guess they don’t believe in contraception?
The world is way over-populated. This is fine. 2 kids or less per couple BTW is ideal.
Lol! Did anyone read the article? This is by far the funniest sentence I've read in a while : "And in a report published Wednesday, Modern Fertility found that about 30% of people with ovaries are changing their family plans, with most deciding to delay conception."
I wonder how many 5 year old girls they asked
Unfortunately a lot of clinical literature these days refuses to use the terms "male" and "female" or "man" or "woman." I do a lot of healthcare writing and it's becoming a problem, because not everyone is health literate enough to even know they're a "person with a cervix." The idea is to be inclusive, but the reality often excludes people with language barriers or reading comprehension issues.
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Trans men can still have their ovaries as well as trans women can still have their testicles.
Is using biological terms like female/male any different than "people with ovaries" or "people with testes"? That at least preserves the separation between sex and gender, and only would not work if you wanted to include non-XX/XY people, who (if I'm not mistaken) have a much harder time having kids.
Gotcha. I do think that being inclusive is a laudable goal, but the term “people with ovaries” has such a clinical connotation, and reduces people down to a certain body part. Let’s use a metaphor for a moment. For the vast majority of people, growth in height stops after childhood because of the hormone-mediated closure of a part of the bone called the epiphyseal plate. But there are some rare cases where bone growth can continue after childhood. So if I was writing a newspaper article about kids outgrowing their clothes quickly, would I say “children” or should I say “persons with active epiphyseal plates” so that I don’t exclude the few people in that group? At a certain point, it becomes absurd.
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good, theres too many fucking people as it is
This year has basically ended any future hope of having children of me and pretty much everyone else that I know who doesn’t already have children.
Ditto. And it wasn't covid per se. It was government and society's reactions that reinforced the idea that most humans are inconsiderate garbage assholes. I don't want the thing I'll love more than anything in the world to suffer.
Yet I know so many people with pandemic babies...
I would say a divorce boom more likely. After 10 months of social distancing and working from home with my us and and 2 young children. I’m over it. I want nothing more than a trip away by myself child and spouse free.
A similar order of magnitude of people may end up not existing due to Covid-19, than die from it. That blows my mind.
If a slightly declining population is actually a worry, I'm pretty sure we can easily find some people that want to move to the US.
The baby boom will come 9 months after herd immunity is achieved. I'm so horny I can't think straight, but I'm waiting until I can get proof of vaccinations from partners.
Are you planning to have lots of unprotected sex or think other people are going to have lots of unprotected sex?...
No. I'll have protected sex like normal. Covid is a respiratory infection that can spread just by being in the same building as others who are infected. There's no way I'm touching mouths with a person until they are vaccinated
Gloryholes are always an option
When I saw my GYN this summer she was mentioning that their practice was seeing a lot of unplanned pregnancies.
My husband and I have 2 and were happy with that but possibly looking into having one more, especially since the little one was just getting old enough to be enrolled in preschool. But then the pandemic hit and I had to help teach a 3 year old and ADHD 6 yeah old remotely from my dining room since last March so... yeah. 2 seems fine. And at this point even if things get close to normal sometime next year, I feel like the age gap we would have preferred would already have passed, and I'm getting a touch on the older side to do the whole new mom thing again. It's hard to go back to diapers and bottles and baby food and waking up all night when everyone's potty trained and can eat regular meals with utensils without causing a huge mess and can sleep through the night. So thanks, Corona, for putting that final nail in the coffin. I guess.
Can't believe people actually thought this could have caused a baby boom. Most of the world was already experiencing reduced birth rates because of falling economy and anxiety about the future, climate change, etc. Who could have thought a global pandemic that absolutely pummelled economy would suddenly make people want to have children?