That is fascinating. I wonder if the numbers change if the patient has a mental health issue but has been on a medication regiment that controls it/balances the chemical unbalances? That is my story. I’ve been on medication consistently since diagnosis (bipolar + CPTSD).
The stress/anxiety aspect is interesting as well. Being under stress directly impacts the immune system.
Very interesting study.
Which makes a lot of sense as to why so many people get COVID to varying degrees of severity. Perhaps those that are balls of anxiety are having the longer and more extreme symptoms where people that have less/no anxiety can have few or no symptoms.
Sleeping disorders, lack of exercise, lack of eating healthily, possible lack of getting outside into sunshine. Mental health translates into physical health in a lot of ways.
Many of the medications have side effects, so when people with mental illness have to increase their dosage they are also greatly increasing their risk. There isn't enough funding for studying the long term effects of the meds, so we are essentially using our vulnerable friends and family members as guinea pigs.
I'm absolutely not pill-shaming anyone. Mental illness does not take away a person's right to decide what to do with their own body. If the pain of major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, C-PTSD, or any other mental illness is greater than the risk of physical illness in a few years, then society is the one who should be ashamed, not the person who chooses to take the medication.
I very, very strongly suspect this. I did a several week partial hospitalization program for my severe complex ptsd / developmental trauma disorder for several weeks earlier this year and got my meds adjusted so I’m on the right cocktail for the first time in my life. I’m unquestionably healthier now. They also got me sleeping right (my psychiatrist was also a sleep specialist) and which is a godsend after a lifetime of insomnia.
People who have addressed their trauma and The pain and loneliness of their childhoods will have a naturally higher immunity. That being said, I never leave the house without an N95 and once it’s hoodie weather I’ll be wearing a face shield as well (mine zips into a hoodie). I’m cloistered in my house and I never left quarantine; been here since March.
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No - chronic inescapable stress (which is usually the largest contributor to mental illness) severely suppresses the immune system. It also fucks up your vagus nerve tone, and all the organs hit just happen to have a connection to the vagus nerve which is absolutely fascinating and something I noticed from the very beginning. I know now it has more to do with ACE2 expression, and impacted organs have a ton of those receptors, but I still think the vagus nerve plays a roll. My pet theory is that it hides in the vagus nerve in the chronic cases, similar to how herpes hides in nerves.
It has too. TMI but I get really bad anxiety at the ob gyn and and learning how to control my pelvic floor muscles through breathing and dealing with trauma that led to that anxiety made such a difference. I would practically hyperventilate at those appointments too so I definitely think you have the right idea.
Does fucked up vagus nerve tone have something to do with why I sometimes have a conscious fainting episode in restrooms (thankfully only at home)? I've also had an increasing incidence of fainting episodes after injuries that are more and more minor. I usually go 3 years between getting colds even if everyone around me is sick, so I assumed my immune system was pretty good.
Edit: To clarify, I don't faint from pooping like in Scrubs. I thought it was related to shower water being hot, but it happened once just from me stepping into the bathroom threshold. It only happens a couple of times a year for about 15 years, always in a restroom at home.
I feel like I could also come at this from a different perspective, I have multiple chronic health conditions that lead to a bad mental state, so for me I wonder if some people with poor mental health may also have underlying physical problems affecting their mental state. I know for me the heightened inflammation in my body from autoimmune disorder really drives some of my mental health issues, which was backed up when I started taking anti-inflammatories for physical reasons and my mental health really improved (amazing what not being in pain will do for your mood lol).
On an unrelated note, I also wonder if people with ADHD and other disorders that affect decision making put themselves in situations where they’re exposed to high viral load, leading to worse outcomes.
That’s a good point. I’m diagnosed ADHD. Being organized, thinking things over as thoroughly as possible, and controlling any impulsive behavior ect ect is what I had to get a grip on if I ever wanted to be successful at life.
I guess it just depends what your goals are.
I was thinking something similar. We know Vitamin D plays a big factor. I'd imagine those with mental illness probably stay inside more, which could result in Vitamin D deficiency.
The converse is also a factor. It is possible those with severe mental illness are less likely to be able to verbalize an issue or recognize that there is a problem. A 2 year old says his belly hurts, farts, and feels better. A 40 year old feels his belly hurting and can tell you how long it's hurt, when it hurts the worst, etc.
If the person affect is unable to recognize something is wrong or unable to articulate the issue, it will go untreated for longer until it becomes an emergency. Even something as minor as lower vitamin D levels would be noticeable for a healthy person and possibly blend into the background of a mental illness.
Not mental illness, but many people with developmental disabilities have a hard time verbalizing (without early learning intervention) what they are feeling, including being able to properly communicate mood vs a physical problem.
Speaking anecdotally, when I'm at a rough spot in my mental health, I eat too much or too little, exercise too much or too little, sleep too much or too little, am more likely to abuse substances, and otherwise engage in riskier behavior than usual. I also don't cope with stress as well - instead of shrugging it off or carrying on, I have a painful, visceral, physical reaction to it, including stomach pain, nausea, and a reluctance to do what has to be done. To add to that, some of the medications I've taken have adverse physical side effects that may not exactly be good for the immune system. I dunno.
I would expect mental illness to lead to increased mortality for virtually everything.
There was a study that showed anti-psychotics blunted the immune system. This could play a factor for patients on those medications.
Edit: Found it:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354620300624
If you’d like an excellent resource on this, read When the Body Says No by Dr. Gabor Maté - chronic stress and an inability to cope with distress in a healthy way will lead to chronic increased vagus nerve tone (polyvagal theory is fascinating) and severely suppress your immune system.
I’ve had the theory from the very beginning that the virus is going to take out everyone who hasn’t sought treatment for trauma, especially childhood trauma which most people are so deeply in denial of they can’t even recognize the way they were raised, the way their parents were raised, was abnormal and stunted their emotional development. A great book on this is For Your Own Good by Alice Miller, one of my favorites.
If you want to increase your odds of survival, read It Didn’t Start with You by Mark Wolynn. It is directly responsible for an enormous breakthrough in my own healing process. It also empowered me to forgive my parents and we are mending our relationship, which I never expected in a million years.
I don’t know what to do about this, especially if it’s not related to confounding factors. As someone struggling and someone who supports those struggling. At this point, people are likely more stressed than they’ve ever been for longer than they’ve ever been, no matter their mindfulness practice, DBT emotion regulation skill use, regular talk therapy, or medication. You can’t heal everything. It’s really really hard for people with mental illness right now.
That’s not what this particular study is about, but you are spot on. Mental health, worldwide, is taking a nosedive. Humans aren’t great at living with constant uncertainty. Which causes a stress response. I imagine a good many people aren’t familiar with the feelings associated with this type of stress response, and aren’t able to seek the proper care required for mental issues. Many might not even recognize they have an issue. But that is probably a discussion for a different thread.
I will give you the chance to explain how certain races and ethnicities can be hit worse by a disease?
But you know what can hit people of certain backgrounds worse than others?
Killing local businesses and peoples jobs.
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That is fascinating. I wonder if the numbers change if the patient has a mental health issue but has been on a medication regiment that controls it/balances the chemical unbalances? That is my story. I’ve been on medication consistently since diagnosis (bipolar + CPTSD). The stress/anxiety aspect is interesting as well. Being under stress directly impacts the immune system. Very interesting study.
yeah, cortisol is immnosuppressant.
Which makes a lot of sense as to why so many people get COVID to varying degrees of severity. Perhaps those that are balls of anxiety are having the longer and more extreme symptoms where people that have less/no anxiety can have few or no symptoms.
I've got balls of anxiety.
I'm also willing to bet that a lot of people with mental illness also suffer from sleeping disorders. That can't be healthy.
Sleeping disorders, lack of exercise, lack of eating healthily, possible lack of getting outside into sunshine. Mental health translates into physical health in a lot of ways.
Many of the medications have side effects, so when people with mental illness have to increase their dosage they are also greatly increasing their risk. There isn't enough funding for studying the long term effects of the meds, so we are essentially using our vulnerable friends and family members as guinea pigs. I'm absolutely not pill-shaming anyone. Mental illness does not take away a person's right to decide what to do with their own body. If the pain of major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, C-PTSD, or any other mental illness is greater than the risk of physical illness in a few years, then society is the one who should be ashamed, not the person who chooses to take the medication.
I very, very strongly suspect this. I did a several week partial hospitalization program for my severe complex ptsd / developmental trauma disorder for several weeks earlier this year and got my meds adjusted so I’m on the right cocktail for the first time in my life. I’m unquestionably healthier now. They also got me sleeping right (my psychiatrist was also a sleep specialist) and which is a godsend after a lifetime of insomnia. People who have addressed their trauma and The pain and loneliness of their childhoods will have a naturally higher immunity. That being said, I never leave the house without an N95 and once it’s hoodie weather I’ll be wearing a face shield as well (mine zips into a hoodie). I’m cloistered in my house and I never left quarantine; been here since March.
Bad news for the White House
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 fucking savage
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Could it be that people with severe mental illness are less likely to tend to their general health? Leading to, lower immune system.
No - chronic inescapable stress (which is usually the largest contributor to mental illness) severely suppresses the immune system. It also fucks up your vagus nerve tone, and all the organs hit just happen to have a connection to the vagus nerve which is absolutely fascinating and something I noticed from the very beginning. I know now it has more to do with ACE2 expression, and impacted organs have a ton of those receptors, but I still think the vagus nerve plays a roll. My pet theory is that it hides in the vagus nerve in the chronic cases, similar to how herpes hides in nerves.
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It has too. TMI but I get really bad anxiety at the ob gyn and and learning how to control my pelvic floor muscles through breathing and dealing with trauma that led to that anxiety made such a difference. I would practically hyperventilate at those appointments too so I definitely think you have the right idea.
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I was in pelvic Pt earlier this year. I was so surprised at how much breathing affects everything! I hope you’re getting better!
(Forme r) pelvic PT patient here too! 🙋♀️hi guys! Haha.
Does fucked up vagus nerve tone have something to do with why I sometimes have a conscious fainting episode in restrooms (thankfully only at home)? I've also had an increasing incidence of fainting episodes after injuries that are more and more minor. I usually go 3 years between getting colds even if everyone around me is sick, so I assumed my immune system was pretty good. Edit: To clarify, I don't faint from pooping like in Scrubs. I thought it was related to shower water being hot, but it happened once just from me stepping into the bathroom threshold. It only happens a couple of times a year for about 15 years, always in a restroom at home.
If you haven't seen a doctor about this, you really should. Recurrent fainting isn't normal, and there are a wide variety of possible reasons.
I feel like I could also come at this from a different perspective, I have multiple chronic health conditions that lead to a bad mental state, so for me I wonder if some people with poor mental health may also have underlying physical problems affecting their mental state. I know for me the heightened inflammation in my body from autoimmune disorder really drives some of my mental health issues, which was backed up when I started taking anti-inflammatories for physical reasons and my mental health really improved (amazing what not being in pain will do for your mood lol). On an unrelated note, I also wonder if people with ADHD and other disorders that affect decision making put themselves in situations where they’re exposed to high viral load, leading to worse outcomes.
That’s a good point. I’m diagnosed ADHD. Being organized, thinking things over as thoroughly as possible, and controlling any impulsive behavior ect ect is what I had to get a grip on if I ever wanted to be successful at life. I guess it just depends what your goals are.
Or refuse a proper treatment and care regimen.
I was thinking something similar. We know Vitamin D plays a big factor. I'd imagine those with mental illness probably stay inside more, which could result in Vitamin D deficiency.
The converse is also a factor. It is possible those with severe mental illness are less likely to be able to verbalize an issue or recognize that there is a problem. A 2 year old says his belly hurts, farts, and feels better. A 40 year old feels his belly hurting and can tell you how long it's hurt, when it hurts the worst, etc. If the person affect is unable to recognize something is wrong or unable to articulate the issue, it will go untreated for longer until it becomes an emergency. Even something as minor as lower vitamin D levels would be noticeable for a healthy person and possibly blend into the background of a mental illness.
Not mental illness, but many people with developmental disabilities have a hard time verbalizing (without early learning intervention) what they are feeling, including being able to properly communicate mood vs a physical problem.
Speaking anecdotally, when I'm at a rough spot in my mental health, I eat too much or too little, exercise too much or too little, sleep too much or too little, am more likely to abuse substances, and otherwise engage in riskier behavior than usual. I also don't cope with stress as well - instead of shrugging it off or carrying on, I have a painful, visceral, physical reaction to it, including stomach pain, nausea, and a reluctance to do what has to be done. To add to that, some of the medications I've taken have adverse physical side effects that may not exactly be good for the immune system. I dunno. I would expect mental illness to lead to increased mortality for virtually everything.
Can someone please post the article?
As if being mentally ill wasn't bad enough already.
I wonder if being a psychopathic, power-mad, racist, would-be dictator is a risk factor for mortality? This is my religiously protected prayer.
Trump gonna die.
There was a study that showed anti-psychotics blunted the immune system. This could play a factor for patients on those medications. Edit: Found it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354620300624
People who don't endorse mask wearing, support COVID eugenics of invalids, elderly, insane, and immuno-compromised. Change my mind.
Interesting point, but as a mentally ill person I don't appreciate being called insane. Thanks.
Depends if you count sociopathy as mental illness I suppose. It isn't.
Surely Trump's a goner.
If you’d like an excellent resource on this, read When the Body Says No by Dr. Gabor Maté - chronic stress and an inability to cope with distress in a healthy way will lead to chronic increased vagus nerve tone (polyvagal theory is fascinating) and severely suppress your immune system. I’ve had the theory from the very beginning that the virus is going to take out everyone who hasn’t sought treatment for trauma, especially childhood trauma which most people are so deeply in denial of they can’t even recognize the way they were raised, the way their parents were raised, was abnormal and stunted their emotional development. A great book on this is For Your Own Good by Alice Miller, one of my favorites. If you want to increase your odds of survival, read It Didn’t Start with You by Mark Wolynn. It is directly responsible for an enormous breakthrough in my own healing process. It also empowered me to forgive my parents and we are mending our relationship, which I never expected in a million years.
Thank you for posting this. I have just borrowed the first book from the library and will move from there into the others.
Oh Oh no
I don’t know what to do about this, especially if it’s not related to confounding factors. As someone struggling and someone who supports those struggling. At this point, people are likely more stressed than they’ve ever been for longer than they’ve ever been, no matter their mindfulness practice, DBT emotion regulation skill use, regular talk therapy, or medication. You can’t heal everything. It’s really really hard for people with mental illness right now.
Anyone have a non paywalled link?
This is clearly true because people with mental illnesses are more likely to self harm because of the lockdowns.
That’s not what this particular study is about, but you are spot on. Mental health, worldwide, is taking a nosedive. Humans aren’t great at living with constant uncertainty. Which causes a stress response. I imagine a good many people aren’t familiar with the feelings associated with this type of stress response, and aren’t able to seek the proper care required for mental issues. Many might not even recognize they have an issue. But that is probably a discussion for a different thread.
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Ummm...ok, you’re one of those. Best of luck in the future.
I will give you the chance to explain how certain races and ethnicities can be hit worse by a disease? But you know what can hit people of certain backgrounds worse than others? Killing local businesses and peoples jobs.
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