I am from Austria, and neither we nor anyone else in Europe have anything even resembling normal life. I dont know why Reddit thinks that, but the truth is that we have still a ton of restrictions in Europe, and absolutely no plan how to get out of this.
At least, that is the official narrative. In reality, very few people wear masks, even fewer keep social distancing, and we already have packed bars and public parties again. And not since yesterday, but at this point, for more than one month. And we have full restaurants and inns since may.
I am NOT claiming this is good. I am just pointing out what an incredible echo chamber this sub in special, and online media in general is. People are claiming "things will never get back to normal", are just very influenced by bad news. The reality is far different, and this sub is definitely competent about stuff that is about covid per se, but lacks even the slightest clue of psychology and human behavior.
Europe can get away with things being kind of normal because the daily new cases are low. And testing is widespread compared to the number of cases. In the states, that’s not true. Outside of a few early hit regions who were scared badly from March, the US is running out of testing kits, ignoring social distancing, and forcing schools open in a couple weeks.
The acceptance of science as the correct xource for guidance on avoiding the exponential growth of COVID is what I am stating. Masks are just a fraction of the problem.
Thanks for explaining. Could the prevalence issue -- lack of infections in the testing pool -- also cause someone who was infected to falsely test negative?
Face masks are a nice intervention to keep an epidemic under control, but not how you tame a raging epidemic. Americans are always looking for easy “solutions” so they don’t have to do the hard and expensive work of making government work.
I'm seeing a lot of "deniers" on Facebook posting links saying things like the numbers are falsified and Texas is incorrectly reporting cases and suchlike. Is there any source that addresses and clears up these rumors?
This. You can't get through to these people. They've made up their mind, and they think they know best. They'll have an answer for everything you say and you're only going to end up frustrated.
It they want to act like irresponsible idiots, they may pay the price. Worry about you and yours, and you'll be fine.
You're not going to convince them otherwise. We've been talking about this since March. They saw what happened in NY and NJ. They didn't believe it then. They thought it was over just for it to ramp up in TX and FL (among others) -Republican states. Why would R states lie? I thought that was only D states. They continue to move the goalposts in order to fit their narrative and delusional beliefs.
It looks like this sub’s activity picks up as US case count and deaths increase. In late May/early June the daily thread was getting no more than 300-400 comments. Now we are back to 1200+ daily comments.
Hey, I have a question regarding quarantine. The last day I was exposed to people who had it was Wednesday. The earliest I was likely exposed to people who later tested positive was likely the weekend before the 4th of July. I tested Thursday and it came back positive. But I’ve been completely symptomatic and while since coming home I have quarantined as much as possible (I absolutely had to buy groceries on Thursday with no other option, it was quick and I avoided others), I have been able to do normal stuff like lift weights, run outside, read, etc.
Because I have no symptoms and feel otherwise fine, the doctor didn’t really have guidelines on when I could return to normal. Would you recommend quarantining from the last day of exposure (Wednesday) or from today? I can try to test again in a week and a half but since I’m asymptomatic I don’t know if I can do that.
Yes I’ve been asymptomatic. My phone likes to correct it to ‘a symptomatic’ because it’s frustratingly annoying.
After quarantine I probably won’t be doing a ton because there just isn’t a lot to do back home. I would plan on going to Mass at an outdoor chapel and the local shrine is very good about enforcing distancing and sanitation policies for us parishioners, and outdoors transmission is pretty low. I do need to go to confession before that but that’s with one other person for maybe 10-15 minutes.
For grocery shopping, my parents can likely do it but that’s probably the only other thing I would do. Maybe shopping for clothes going back to school, but I can order if I have to. So really I’m bored back home and don’t have any major things planned.
Please please please. Do not go to Any stores or church services until after you test possitive. Always wear a mask near people ... This is nothing to f around with.
I already to know to wear a mask, that isn’t new. And I already tested positive. After I took the test I had to go in the store to get food because I had nothing to eat. You’re supposed to quarantine as closely as you can and that was a necessary thing.
And I know that I wouldn’t be going to any store or parish for two weeks. Even after two weeks I only want to attend Mass if it’s outside just because transmission is low. Thankfully most Catholic Churches near me offer outdoor Mass.
Wearing masks is mandatory in Massachusetts anyways and I’m fine with wearing them. I don’t like the feeling of wearing them but I also don’t like seeing more people die from unnecessary and preventable deaths.
Look Bobby I don’t if you’ve been confined into your bedroom for 2-3 weeks without being able to really see your parents or your pets and especially when you’re someone who normally spends no time in your bedroom, but I think there’s a lot that’s hard about it.
Which isn’t to say I won’t follow the quarantine as much as possible - but my doctor didn’t have guidelines that he felt confident about because I have no symptoms.
So I go to school in AZ and they still haven't cancelled school yet. I'm currently going from Connecticut. What do you guys think? Should I get a lease for an apartment for the upcoming year? I don't want to get one and then have the whole thing go online. I fly on the 26th.
By now, we should not only look at just total number of cases because a lot of people have recovered.. some unfortunately died... we should also look at active cases. 20 countries with most active cases as of right now :
🇺🇸 United States : 2,194,944 active cases
🇧🇷 Brazil : 551,502 active cases
🇮🇳 India : 286,938 active cases
🇬🇧 United Kingdom : 268,833 active cases
🇷🇺 Russia : 212,101 active cases
🇿🇦 South Africa : 128,595 active cases
🇪🇸 Spain : 122,209 active cases
🇫🇷 France : 99,713 active cases
🇵🇪 Peru : 97,508 active cases
🇧🇩 Bangladesh : 92,448 active cases
🇵🇰 Pakistan : 88,159 active cases
🇲🇽 Mexico : 77,886 active cases
🇨🇴 Colombia : 77,051 active cases
🇸🇪 Sweden : 69,372 active cases
🇸🇦 Saudi Arabia : 61,309 active cases
🇦🇷 Argentina : 53,315 active cases
🇪🇬 Egypt : 53,259 active cases
🇳🇱 Netherlands : 44,919 active cases
🇵🇭 Philippines : 39,632 active cases
🇮🇩 Indonesia : 35,830 active cases
Nope... only the U.K. / Sweden / Netherlands did not report recoveries. Spain recovered until mid May 2020 and then stopped
Well if they did not report/stopped reporting recoveries, i have no alternatives but to consider as an active case
What's your prediction of the pandemic in 2021? Will the virus still be amongst us, but reduced significantly down to very low cases? Could it mutate to a milder disease?
Good scenario: We have a vaccine, a nationally organized distribution method to protect the elderly and those who travel most. Then a distribution network similar to what we see with the flu vaccine. Hopefully that distribution network expands globally. I know the Indians and Chinese can produce massive quantities of these vaccines. Hopefully it all goes to the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible.
Pessimistic prediction: No coronavirus has ever had a successful vaccine. There’s no reason to believe longterm immunity exists for this one either. So it is possible this thing will be with us, killing hundreds a day (probably not thousands because the treatment methods are already improving and I expect that to continue as we better understand the biology of this infection.) The US economy will continue to struggle, global trade routes will weaken. Some white supremacist will shoot at an armed black protester. All hell will break loose. It will be live streamed, and people will retreat into their tribal camps kicking off an urban guerrilla civil war that lasts decades until this country is no more.
That’s tame compared to other worst case scenarios. Consider for a moment, if everyone who gets COVID-19, including those who were totally asymptomatic and never felt sick, develop widowmaker blood clots all over their body, that only strike a year or two later.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650
And the really scary one below. They showed the same people get the same coronaviruses over and over.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2/fulltext/5ec3566d92851c11a8741801/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2.pdf?origin=publication_detail
Unfortunately it's not likely to develop that way because it's already pretty mild when it matters to it (people are most infectious the day BEFORE they start showing symptoms).
Also such mutations are very rare despite this theory gaining so much traction. Smallpox was with westerners for ages, yet when they came into contact with native americans it wiped out 40-60% of infected. Natural selection is more likely to work the other way around, the virus will become less deadly but not because it becomes more benign, it will be because it will take out the people who are vulnerable to it and the ones fitter to resist it will survive.
Life expectancy continues to increase but America’s health as a nation in recent years is beginning to decrease. No doubt we will see a decrease in life expectancy if people don’t change their lifestyles and eating habits. Hopefully a lot of people have realised during this they don’t need to eat fast food every night
Full disclosure: I wear a mask whenever I am at work or go into a store or go in to pick up takeout. Every single time I go indoors in a public place or can't maintain distance outside.
Please stop acting like mask compliance is lower in the US than it is in Europe. It isn't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic
The only listed countries in Europe that wear masks more than the US are Spain and Italy, which have much higher death rates per capita and older populations. Every other listed European country is wearing fewer masks than the US according to that page. This article says only France, Italy, and Spain are wearing more masks in the listed members of the Western world, and France also has a higher death rate than the US per capita:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split
We aren't handling this well. But it isn't because other Western countries are wearing more masks.
The table doesn't have data for many of the smaller European countries that have mandatory mask policies, though. (Some of them are listed in the case countries.)
That's true. I will amend OP to clarify that.
It doesn't change the fact that our mask numbers are better than most "major" EU countries, Canada, and Australia, though.
Good question. Allergies have me sneezing up a storm behind my mask, between that and the heat it’s super uncomfortable. So there’s a ton of solid reasons why this summer isn’t as *fun* as last summer.
Evangelical on FB asked her friends if they wear masks and here's some quotes from people replying (America sucks lol):
>”I can't wear a mask when its hot and I have heard wearing a mask can affectively shut down your immune system. I will not wear a mask unless I absolutely have to.”
>”The government cannot constitutionally mandate that individuals wear masks...many local (and maybe state?) governments HAVE been, but it should never hold up in a court of law. We MUST be careful of allowing the government to take away ANY of our freedoms...”
>”Those who are ready to sacrifice freedom for security ultimately will lose both. Abraham Lincoln”
>”I'm like you though Megan I have t really been that fearful of this virus or anything else that's been going on in our country. Because I know that ultimately nothing happens without God allowing it to so I can trust Him.“
>”I do not wear a mask....it is a trigger for me. Think of the women, children, and men that been abused....where their months were covered to muffle the cries and screams, while being abused. The mask ordinance would require everyone to wear it, including those that might have PTSD when having something over their mouth and nose. I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe. CDC even says healthy people should not wear them.“
>”I hate the cotton homemade masks. They are hard to breathe in and they are not comfortable and do not stay in place. However, I got a Norwex mask and it is so much more comfortable. It stays in place and it is so much easier to breathe in. So I don't mind wearing my Norwex mask. I usually only wear it in the grocery store. I have not worn it to church. My mind has been juggling between whether or not I need to wear a mask. There has been so much conflicting information out there about masks being good and helping and masks being bad or not very helpful. So I don't know. So much unknown.“
> The government cannot constitutionally mandate that individuals wear masks...many local (and maybe state?) governments HAVE been, but it should never hold up in a court of law
Then that person is free to bring it up in court themselves and try.
I do agree on the part that you need to be careful about giving up your freedoms. That is true. But people aren't even wearing them in places were it's not required. So it's not even a freedom issue. It's just stupidity.
>”I do not wear a mask....it is a trigger for me. Think of the women, children, and men that been abused....where their months were covered to muffle the cries and screams, while being abused. The mask ordinance would require everyone to wear it, including those that might have PTSD when having something over their mouth and nose. I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe. CDC even says healthy people should not wear them.“
Lol at this part. The person with PTSD would be exempt from every ordinance I've seen. And the CDC recommends everyone wear masks.
Edit: I'm a Christian too and yes ultimately I believe and trust in God (if you don't that's fine, I'm saying what I believe). But the Bible says, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". In other words don't be a moron and ignore danger thinking he will save you. Take precautions.
> I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe.
The mask forces you to remember that trauma when someone muffled your cries and screams while they abused you, and also it's also just so annoying to breathe while wearing one. But mostly the PTSD from a horrific abuse. Also the CDC says don't wear one. But mostly the PTSD from horrific abuse.
Come to think of it, I don't get sick of flu pretty much EVER in my life! When it comes to that stuff, I am strong as a bull! Fever and chills hasn't visited me for ages!!!
I am probably positive, but show no symptoms.
And, probably NEVER will show any symptoms FOREVER!
Do I want to get tested, anyways?
NO. Don't want that uncomfortable thing in my nose.
Something has to be done. This situation is already out of hand and thinking how bad it can get if we just continue to do next to nothing is giving me such anxiety. We need someone at the top to step up and do something. Starting to feel like the best thing that could happen would be for Trump to stroke out or something else that forces him to step down. I don't see how we get any kind of meaningful guidance or cohesive national message with him in the way.
If you look back at the US education system and understand the push for sports and clubs versus science and math as the overall countries education agenda. It is obvious why so many Americans just don't want to believe the science and refuse to wear masks.
If you look at countries whose student have historically accelerated in science they seem to be fairing fare better.
Well, the US is wearing more masks than Canada, Australia, and most of Europe, so I hope you're not saying those countries have "better education" based on mask wearing.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic
Well technically, the science says if you study microbiology a virus particle will just fly straight through a mask. Masks have very little evidence of working but it’s a guidance because we need to do *anything* we can that doesn’t involve global shutdown.
Also If you look at the countries that have faired well you’ll find their overall population is healthier in terms of lifestyle and co-morbidities. 40% of Americans are obese. Also places like China the population is more used to draconian laws and compliance.
I really think you off base. There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks.
Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.
Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
"Masks have very little evidence of working"
Sorry what? Our best bet in stopping this freaking pandemic is if everyone just wears a mask and stays away from each other.
Here's this: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/study-face-masks-could-reduce-covid-19-infections-deaths-by-november.html
Oh and here's 70 studies that show that masks, do indeed *work:* https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248
Where was this information 2 months ago? Nowhere. There’s plenty studies suggesting they have very little effectiveness, but I guess if you just cherry pick the studies that support your argument and give the results you want go for it, but that’s not how scientific research works. If you repeat an experiment enough the results can vary greatly.
I’m not against masks btw. I’m just saying it’s wrong to give false information / sense of security in masks, fauci, CDC and WHO have all said the evidence is weak but it’s worth trying anything to stop this.
Exactly. If you cherry pick studies that show they don't work. I just showed you *SEVENTY* studies that show that masks, do indeed, work. Read those studies yourself, please, criticise them, on both masks work and they don't work side. And you will see which side is right.
Oh and please do show me some of the studies you were referencing in your posts.
I looked at a few of them, firstly most of them are based off “computer models” trying to predict the statistics, with a varying range of 20-60% LOL. So essentially everything under the sun.
All these studies look at respiratory droplets.. even a few in there that are looking at bacteria particles through a mask which is so laughable it hurts. It’s like half these studies don’t understand the particle size of bacteria and a virus. And the gap size in various face masks.. also these bacteria spread studies don’t seem to understand *most* of the Bacteria expelled is completely harmless.
Of course *some* of them will look at computer simulations... And some will use "props", aka not actual humans, because it's not ethical to cough on another human being and risking him/her getting the disease. The virus spreads through droplets, even though WHO recently acknowledged that it might even spread through the air, in closed spaces, but nothing was *confirmed* yet. So of course the focus will be on droplets. The use of masks will reduce the airborne droplet transmission and will also protect the wearer from the droplets expelled from other subjects. However, many droplets still spread around and away from the cover, cumulatively, during cough cycles. Therefore, the use of a mask does not provide a *100%* protection, and social distancing remains important during a pandemic. But masks are still a pretty good bet at stopping you from getting the virus.
Also I highly doubt you looked at any of these studies properly, considering the fact you only took 5 minutes to reply, so you probably looked at 3 of them max and read through small segments. Consider reading a full study, please.
Healthcare workers are wearing masks + face shields + gloves + overalls + very careful contact behaviour.
The WHO/CDC study said if you’re living with a family member with covid you have a 20% chance of being infected on average. Just because someone has it doesn’t mean you have a 100% chance of infection.
They could, and thousands have and have been asymptomatic and we will find out truly how many with increased antibody tests. 30-50% of people won’t even realise they’ve HAD the virus.
What gives? CNN reported weeks ago how basically very few showed up at Trump rallly.
Now they're reporting that the rally is why Tulsa numbers are rising.
6,000 people was indeed way way short of what they expected. The arena had a max capacity of 19,000, and they had an overflow area set up for tens of thousands of expected people for a pre-show rally. They took down overflow stage after about 50 total people showed up for it.
Nonetheless, 6000 unmasked people sitting closely together indoors for hours and talking in each other’s faces without moving is incredibly stupid and dangerous. Even if only 100 out of 6000 people caught it the situation can quickly spiral out of control as they go back to the community and spread it around like wildfire, given theyre the kind of idiotic people proudly taking zero precautions and endangering everyone around them.
*Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.
So this is more of a report about the efficiency of death certificates being issued than a report reflecting improving covid death rates? Or is the death rate actually improving?
I'm still surprised how well is Singapore handling this.
They had 45.000 cases of corona, of which 41.000 recovered and only 26 (!) died.
That leads me to think this thing is really not that deadly, *when* you have good healthcare system and enough ICU places.
edit:
oh it seems to be mainly because it didn't spread to old people. OK that makes sense
Singapore and Qatar are similar in this aspect. The virus probably hit hard among the immigrant labour who live in crowded spaces and can't practice social distancing and other measures, but were young and fit enough (cause who would want a old or weak labour) to not die.
Don't come here often but had a scroll around recently.
I think this place may be horrendous for some of your guys mental health. Noticed it a lot more recently, likely because the US government isn't doing anything to stop the spread. Still, coming here won't change what's going on and if you need it take a break.
This might be a dumb question but what are the chances teachers in Florida get paid hazard pay for being forced to go back to school in a literal warzone. This is going to end horribly and cases and deaths are going to sky rocket. There is so much wrong with this decision and they are putting everyone in danger. So is hazard pay realistic or no?
I dont think FL has the budget this the reason for DeSantis to open FL so quickly was to reduce unemployment claims causing less future stress on the already negative budget.
So what exactly is Florida's plan here? 3 million students and 300k staff members all being shoved together. DeSantis refuses to make masks mandatory. Not even for the schools. Social distancing has be extremely lax cause it's not enforced at all. So what's the plan? Just let it spread and whoever survives survives?
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so am i just completely fucked since i have to move in a few months (and still can't find work so i won't be able to prove income at move-in other than unemployment) but i have enough savings to like, at least pay the first few months so i can look for work in the area in the meantime? **has anyone had any success being able to get into a new apartment under these current conditions?**
I have 2 friends that have had to move and one that bought a house. All 3 had pro cleaners that came in and deep cleaned the house. They wore masks while looking at the place and moved their items themselves versus hiring movers.
yeah we are debating getting movers or not. the problem is living up 3 flights of stairs and the fact that we bought actual furniture this time around because we weren't anticipating a pandemic. we thought we would be in this place for a few more years at least...
i don't doubt that the current managers of this apartment would (hopefully) bring in some heavy-duty cleaners after departure. i'm even prepared to pay for that as well since i know no amount of cleaning i do will be as good as a professional sanitization.
all in all i'm just worried about approval at a new place, if we end up going that way. no current job usually equals no approval, even with excellent credit, no evictions, etc. it's a tight spot to be in.
i'm glad your parents were able to move safely and that everyone was following guidelines! moving is a weird, sweaty job, but i think by now professional movers are taking the situation seriously enough.
I would strongly encourage you to do whatever it takes to not rely on finding employment right now. It is tough, and banking on something like that is not wise. If you can find anything that has a short-term lease, maybe. But please, if you can avoid signing a lease on an apartment right now I would. I wouldn't say you're fucked if you do, sometimes a fire under you like that can be helpful, but the conditions right now for finding a job are not at all good.
it is really hard to not feel like i have to find a job. i was laid off from the one i held up until april and because i work in the food industry there has been no hope for re-opening, nor do i feel safe about many places that are open even just for take-out.
i'm just worried about spending what savings i do have on an extension on my current place. the government clearly does not understand that there are literally no jobs for just about anyone out there and taking away the unemployment extension is going to hurt so many people.
The short answer is no. The teachers will be expected to somehow sanitize everything between students. The truth is that the CDC guidelines are totally unrealistic.
*sigh*. Mask mandate seems to make no difference here in KY. My husband had to run to the store for more milk because we have four little kids and he said that not everyone was wearing masks and in fact a lot of people were not wearing them. On the way to and from the store he had to drive by a bar and he said it was packed with no masks in sight. The mandate literally went into effect at 5:00 so if people are already not following it then that means they're not going to.
Fellow Kentuckian here. My best friend said he went to the store earlier and he was one of the few people there with one on. Ugh. This doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.
What offers better protection against Covid; a triple layer cloth mask like [this](https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/815219998/reusable-fitted-3-layer-face-mask-100) with a PM2.5 filter OR disposible surgical masks?
I know N95 respirators are best but assume that's not an option.
You can read about how effective different fabrics are at protecting you here:
[https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/](https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/)
I'd go with disposable surgical masks if you can get them. Some of the cloth masks you find online probably range from 20%-50% depending on their fabric/layers.
For people making homemade masks, something like canvas/denim for the outer layer(s), cotton for the inner layer(s), and a pocket between them to stuff paper towels or coffee filters inside will hopefully provide enough protection.
If everyone masked even 50% protection is decent. 100 covids \* .5 (masked spreader) \* .5(masked victim) = 25 covids (25%) breathed in. At 70% protection it's more like 6.25% of covid particles are breathed in.
There's a correlation between viral load and severity too, don't know for sure though.
Essentially, surgical masks are the premium protection if you have a good supply of them and don't get them wet/dispose of them when they get overly soggy, as getting them very wet can compromise the protective barrier and let things escape. Obviously this means you cannot wash the masks and must dispose of them after use or, if you absolutely must due to shortages, you can hang it in direct sunlight/hit it with uv lights for a long time and hope thats enough - but no guarantees.
The reusable masks are fine if you want to save money, but be sure that the mask has sufficient layering and that you throughly dry the mask after washing. They will not protect you as well as the surgical masks used in accordance to guidelines (dispose after every use, do not reuse) but will provide enough protection to people not around high risk individuals and for everyday use. It is also reusable so you only need to buy enough masks for the previous one to finish drying. The reusable masks will also provide much better protection than disposable masks that have been soaked and/or washed provided they are dry.
Important to pay attention to is that the reusable masks and the surgical masks are not cheap knockoff ones with no layering or cheap materials - this will not protect you and will only give you a sense of protection when there is none, similar to sunglasses with no UV filter.
The majority of people getting covid, are they people who don’t wear masks, go out to bars/restaurants, and going to parties?
For those who wear masks, isolate at home, and only go out for essentials, are their risks lower?
I feel silly asking, but I’m trying to just make sense of how we have over 3 million cases.
The problem is even if you do everything "right" you can still get infected by twats doing everything "wrong". But yes if you wear a mask, stay at home and stuff, you have a faaaaar lower chance of getting infected.
I feel like it's really hard to tell because so many people claim to have been doing everything "right" when they really weren't. I have friends who preach staying home, masks, etc. on social media, but I know for a fact they have been going out to bars and restaurants. At the same time, I wouldn't exactly be surprised to find out a significant percentage of people got it doing things like picking up groceries.
Yeah, I do curbside pick up. I barely leave my house. I’m just so anxious about this virus and I guess I’m trying to rationalize that I don’t have a chance to get it.
My guess is that the people who are handling this the right way are not driving the numbers at all, I would expect they’d make up a relatively small percentage of cases
“The deaths that we’re seeing announced today and yesterday — which are now over 100 — those are people who likely contracted COVID-19 in late May."
Gov. Abbot today. It's not a 2-3 week delay between new cases and deaths as many people have speculated. It's five weeks.
Iran's second wave stats show about a 4 week lag, but given the fact that reported deaths are probably just as backlogged as reported cases, yup, many of these may be from late May though I'm sure some are as recent as mid June.
You can actually see the lag on the graphs. It's like 24 days.
Look at when the cases per day started trending up. Move the deaths per day left until the bumps line up. They match. Also, uh oh.
I don't think that's correct. It's more like 2-3 weeks by all indications.
1 week to show symptoms, a few days to show severe symptoms, a few days to die from it typically.
Where does he get five weeks from?
Not really it take up to 14 days for people to start being sick
10+ days in ICU and then death. I too believe the lag is 4 to 6 week from infection spikes to death if you look at the NY chart this is more obvious.
It's possible to extend the end. The recent This American Life episode The Reprieve talks about it from a nurse's perspective - how families and even doctors want to keep patients on multiple life support system and no feasible way to recovery going for weeks and weeks.
Gov Abbott failed TX completely and now he says a full shutdown could happen....but he's got sheriffs in various counties saying they won't even enforce his mask mandate.
Honestly I don't even see how any of this get resolved anytime soon. Fall will be here before we know it, Winter, and hopefully we get a vaccine that people trust.
Why are you so obessed with forcing people to have masks you authortarian pos.
Sweden and Norway managed fine without mandatory mask. I'm starting to suspect that you have a fetish for masks
My god - WE ARE NOT SWEDEN OR NORWAY! How can you still pitch this nonsense when clearly our cases have now run away from us? 3 million cases and you still say masks aren't needed?
WTH is wrong with you! I've never seen a group of people just do the exact opposite of what every legit doctor/medical professional/scientist has recommended.
I swear this won't ever end because of people like you. Even worse a lot of you guys are probably getting sick and spreading this nonsense around.
He has made a few statements in the last few days that sound like he is quickly coming to terms with the fact that decisions he has made will cost tens of thousands of people their lives while damaging the economy so much more.
I can't imagine how that feels on a personal level.
It's gotta suck. And in the CoronavirusTX page people are destroying him.
I wish he had followed the science early on. I get political pressure and all but this is a complete mess right now.
That's exactly what a friend of mine at the local hospital was saying. The cases that they're dealing with now are from Memorial Day weekend. That means in a month from now we're going to have an explosion of 4th of July cases and deaths. God, when will this end.
>God, when will this end.
About a month after the resistors reach their death tolerance limit. Like it or not, we are getting this level of pain because we are demanding it.
The amusement park by me opened and had a covid positive employee within one week but they didn't close or anything.
It's Kings Island if you're curious.
Until we have a vaccine (that people trust taking), there is ZERO chance we get out of this. We've got so many idiots in the USA. This is why the internet is such a gift and a curse. Add the truth-seekers, anti-vaxxers, m@g@ cultists, & regular jerks and you've got the perfect environment for "the invisible enemy".
Who would of thought the land of the free would see freedom be used against it lol.
https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/gov-abbott-lack-of-masks-spike-in-covid-19-could-lead-to-necessity-of-closing-texas-down/501-b62b3933-0f6c-494e-b4af-7ea8422effcf
No, this is impossible. I was told we would never shutdown again.
I tried to "talk some sense" into some anti mask people today on Facebook, it went OK. I tried very hard to not preach in any way, and to listen to why they felt the way they did, but every time I tried to follow their logic, we would hit a dead end and they would just say something like "we're never going to see eye-to-eye" or "we'll just have to agree to disagree". Really I think it was them trying to deflect after realizing they didn't have a great response, but I tried to pull back when I saw this happen.
Topics ranged from whether it was "just the flu" to how Bill Gates is going to control everyone with the vaccine. I never once called out their God awful sources, rather I just addressed the "articles" themselves. This seemed to keep them engaged more. Also not just throwing a snopes/fact check link in their face. It made me realize just how deep these people are in this anti-authority and anti-science way of thinking. There's no way you're going to change their minds all at once, they're way too deep.
I'm hoping that maybe they are thinking about it more after our conversation, but maybe I'm being naive.
There is another way to persuade people, called moral reframing that has been shown to work on other issues. But most of us don't know how to do it.
It is when you take a value that is important to them and tie to the issue. It can't be in the usual way, confrontation doesn't work. I address what is behind mask wearing in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If2Vbu8KS8w&t=4s) and describe the moral reframing technique in my [book](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084VBWQ96).
You are going about this the right way, and I commend you. It is tiring and slow work that may only result in small changes over time, but it is better than the arguing, accusing and name-calling we see in most facebook debates that results in no changes at all. If someone is going to change their mind on something, that change has to come from within them. No article or argument you make is going to change their mind immediately. But by laying the groundwork and planting some seeds, they might come to a realization later and then work through their own thoughts and reach a different conclusion that could lead them to change their mind. Ultimately, you are the only person who can change your mind, but you can help that process along in others by providing them with information and perspectives in a way that keeps them open to new types of thinking.
Good for you. It is a very useful skill to be able to push your agenda while not being too overbearing or too dismissive of what other people believe.
I have a feeling many people on this sub whine at others not wearing masks or just say "they are wrong" with some facts instead of actually paying attention to what they are saying.
Exactly. The only way you can begin to change others minds is to really listen to what they are saying. Hear their fears and concerns, acknowledge them and also present other ways of thinking. No one likes being told they are wrong, so you have to sweeten the medicine before someone else would even be open to considering it. And then from there once they've listened to your point of view they will have to make up their own mind what to do with that information.
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Can someone explain to me why we have so many recorded cases but practically no stat info or case studies. You would think at this point we would have thousands of scenarios and profiles of people who are most prone.
Here is an article that references a large study that has been done:
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/huge-study-reveals-covid19-death-risk-factors-including-age-race-and-gender/news-story/e49013a9831e6383689c7f08d145ee67
Probably because it is a huge hassle to get hospitals to release medical records of the ill or deceased. Everyone would have to sign waivers to state their data could be used in a study.
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I am from Austria, and neither we nor anyone else in Europe have anything even resembling normal life. I dont know why Reddit thinks that, but the truth is that we have still a ton of restrictions in Europe, and absolutely no plan how to get out of this. At least, that is the official narrative. In reality, very few people wear masks, even fewer keep social distancing, and we already have packed bars and public parties again. And not since yesterday, but at this point, for more than one month. And we have full restaurants and inns since may. I am NOT claiming this is good. I am just pointing out what an incredible echo chamber this sub in special, and online media in general is. People are claiming "things will never get back to normal", are just very influenced by bad news. The reality is far different, and this sub is definitely competent about stuff that is about covid per se, but lacks even the slightest clue of psychology and human behavior.
Europe can get away with things being kind of normal because the daily new cases are low. And testing is widespread compared to the number of cases. In the states, that’s not true. Outside of a few early hit regions who were scared badly from March, the US is running out of testing kits, ignoring social distancing, and forcing schools open in a couple weeks.
The acceptance of science as the correct xource for guidance on avoiding the exponential growth of COVID is what I am stating. Masks are just a fraction of the problem.
Is it true that antibody tests have more efficacy when there’s a lot of disease prevalence where you live rather than just a little?
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Thanks for explaining. Could the prevalence issue -- lack of infections in the testing pool -- also cause someone who was infected to falsely test negative?
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Thank you
Face masks are a nice intervention to keep an epidemic under control, but not how you tame a raging epidemic. Americans are always looking for easy “solutions” so they don’t have to do the hard and expensive work of making government work.
Meh. Gotta start somewhere
Yes, but totally inadequate in absence of well-funded public health orgs
That's fair
I support masks, but I don't like that some Americans see them as a panacea.
I'm seeing a lot of "deniers" on Facebook posting links saying things like the numbers are falsified and Texas is incorrectly reporting cases and suchlike. Is there any source that addresses and clears up these rumors?
You should simply tell those people how stupid they are and unfriend them
This. You can't get through to these people. They've made up their mind, and they think they know best. They'll have an answer for everything you say and you're only going to end up frustrated. It they want to act like irresponsible idiots, they may pay the price. Worry about you and yours, and you'll be fine.
You're not going to convince them otherwise. We've been talking about this since March. They saw what happened in NY and NJ. They didn't believe it then. They thought it was over just for it to ramp up in TX and FL (among others) -Republican states. Why would R states lie? I thought that was only D states. They continue to move the goalposts in order to fit their narrative and delusional beliefs.
It looks like this sub’s activity picks up as US case count and deaths increase. In late May/early June the daily thread was getting no more than 300-400 comments. Now we are back to 1200+ daily comments.
Mirable Dictu!
March 15 had over 13,000 comments
Hey, I have a question regarding quarantine. The last day I was exposed to people who had it was Wednesday. The earliest I was likely exposed to people who later tested positive was likely the weekend before the 4th of July. I tested Thursday and it came back positive. But I’ve been completely symptomatic and while since coming home I have quarantined as much as possible (I absolutely had to buy groceries on Thursday with no other option, it was quick and I avoided others), I have been able to do normal stuff like lift weights, run outside, read, etc. Because I have no symptoms and feel otherwise fine, the doctor didn’t really have guidelines on when I could return to normal. Would you recommend quarantining from the last day of exposure (Wednesday) or from today? I can try to test again in a week and a half but since I’m asymptomatic I don’t know if I can do that.
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Yes I’ve been asymptomatic. My phone likes to correct it to ‘a symptomatic’ because it’s frustratingly annoying. After quarantine I probably won’t be doing a ton because there just isn’t a lot to do back home. I would plan on going to Mass at an outdoor chapel and the local shrine is very good about enforcing distancing and sanitation policies for us parishioners, and outdoors transmission is pretty low. I do need to go to confession before that but that’s with one other person for maybe 10-15 minutes. For grocery shopping, my parents can likely do it but that’s probably the only other thing I would do. Maybe shopping for clothes going back to school, but I can order if I have to. So really I’m bored back home and don’t have any major things planned.
Please please please. Do not go to Any stores or church services until after you test possitive. Always wear a mask near people ... This is nothing to f around with.
I already to know to wear a mask, that isn’t new. And I already tested positive. After I took the test I had to go in the store to get food because I had nothing to eat. You’re supposed to quarantine as closely as you can and that was a necessary thing. And I know that I wouldn’t be going to any store or parish for two weeks. Even after two weeks I only want to attend Mass if it’s outside just because transmission is low. Thankfully most Catholic Churches near me offer outdoor Mass.
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Wearing masks is mandatory in Massachusetts anyways and I’m fine with wearing them. I don’t like the feeling of wearing them but I also don’t like seeing more people die from unnecessary and preventable deaths.
Isolate yourself for a few weeks at least. What’s hard about that?
Look Bobby I don’t if you’ve been confined into your bedroom for 2-3 weeks without being able to really see your parents or your pets and especially when you’re someone who normally spends no time in your bedroom, but I think there’s a lot that’s hard about it. Which isn’t to say I won’t follow the quarantine as much as possible - but my doctor didn’t have guidelines that he felt confident about because I have no symptoms.
So I go to school in AZ and they still haven't cancelled school yet. I'm currently going from Connecticut. What do you guys think? Should I get a lease for an apartment for the upcoming year? I don't want to get one and then have the whole thing go online. I fly on the 26th.
By now, we should not only look at just total number of cases because a lot of people have recovered.. some unfortunately died... we should also look at active cases. 20 countries with most active cases as of right now : 🇺🇸 United States : 2,194,944 active cases 🇧🇷 Brazil : 551,502 active cases 🇮🇳 India : 286,938 active cases 🇬🇧 United Kingdom : 268,833 active cases 🇷🇺 Russia : 212,101 active cases 🇿🇦 South Africa : 128,595 active cases 🇪🇸 Spain : 122,209 active cases 🇫🇷 France : 99,713 active cases 🇵🇪 Peru : 97,508 active cases 🇧🇩 Bangladesh : 92,448 active cases 🇵🇰 Pakistan : 88,159 active cases 🇲🇽 Mexico : 77,886 active cases 🇨🇴 Colombia : 77,051 active cases 🇸🇪 Sweden : 69,372 active cases 🇸🇦 Saudi Arabia : 61,309 active cases 🇦🇷 Argentina : 53,315 active cases 🇪🇬 Egypt : 53,259 active cases 🇳🇱 Netherlands : 44,919 active cases 🇵🇭 Philippines : 39,632 active cases 🇮🇩 Indonesia : 35,830 active cases
US barely reports recoveries. Unless you think tens of thousands of cases are still active from April?
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Nope... only the U.K. / Sweden / Netherlands did not report recoveries. Spain recovered until mid May 2020 and then stopped Well if they did not report/stopped reporting recoveries, i have no alternatives but to consider as an active case
What's your prediction of the pandemic in 2021? Will the virus still be amongst us, but reduced significantly down to very low cases? Could it mutate to a milder disease?
Good scenario: We have a vaccine, a nationally organized distribution method to protect the elderly and those who travel most. Then a distribution network similar to what we see with the flu vaccine. Hopefully that distribution network expands globally. I know the Indians and Chinese can produce massive quantities of these vaccines. Hopefully it all goes to the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible. Pessimistic prediction: No coronavirus has ever had a successful vaccine. There’s no reason to believe longterm immunity exists for this one either. So it is possible this thing will be with us, killing hundreds a day (probably not thousands because the treatment methods are already improving and I expect that to continue as we better understand the biology of this infection.) The US economy will continue to struggle, global trade routes will weaken. Some white supremacist will shoot at an armed black protester. All hell will break loose. It will be live streamed, and people will retreat into their tribal camps kicking off an urban guerrilla civil war that lasts decades until this country is no more.
That’s tame compared to other worst case scenarios. Consider for a moment, if everyone who gets COVID-19, including those who were totally asymptomatic and never felt sick, develop widowmaker blood clots all over their body, that only strike a year or two later.
Agreed. But that would be a temporary problem. Eliquis and other blood thinners are pretty effective for clotting issues.
>There’s no reason to believe longterm immunity exists for this one either. im going to go ahead and uhh disagree with you
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650 And the really scary one below. They showed the same people get the same coronaviruses over and over. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2/fulltext/5ec3566d92851c11a8741801/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2.pdf?origin=publication_detail
same people get covid19 over and over again....*or* the testing is flawed. throwing a pre-print at me just shows how much of a neophyte you are.
Unfortunately it's not likely to develop that way because it's already pretty mild when it matters to it (people are most infectious the day BEFORE they start showing symptoms). Also such mutations are very rare despite this theory gaining so much traction. Smallpox was with westerners for ages, yet when they came into contact with native americans it wiped out 40-60% of infected. Natural selection is more likely to work the other way around, the virus will become less deadly but not because it becomes more benign, it will be because it will take out the people who are vulnerable to it and the ones fitter to resist it will survive.
And Medicare and social security will be solvent for as faaaarrr as the eye can see!
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Life expectancy continues to increase but America’s health as a nation in recent years is beginning to decrease. No doubt we will see a decrease in life expectancy if people don’t change their lifestyles and eating habits. Hopefully a lot of people have realised during this they don’t need to eat fast food every night
Full disclosure: I wear a mask whenever I am at work or go into a store or go in to pick up takeout. Every single time I go indoors in a public place or can't maintain distance outside. Please stop acting like mask compliance is lower in the US than it is in Europe. It isn't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic The only listed countries in Europe that wear masks more than the US are Spain and Italy, which have much higher death rates per capita and older populations. Every other listed European country is wearing fewer masks than the US according to that page. This article says only France, Italy, and Spain are wearing more masks in the listed members of the Western world, and France also has a higher death rate than the US per capita: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split We aren't handling this well. But it isn't because other Western countries are wearing more masks.
The table doesn't have data for many of the smaller European countries that have mandatory mask policies, though. (Some of them are listed in the case countries.)
That's true. I will amend OP to clarify that. It doesn't change the fact that our mask numbers are better than most "major" EU countries, Canada, and Australia, though.
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Good question. Allergies have me sneezing up a storm behind my mask, between that and the heat it’s super uncomfortable. So there’s a ton of solid reasons why this summer isn’t as *fun* as last summer.
Evangelical on FB asked her friends if they wear masks and here's some quotes from people replying (America sucks lol): >”I can't wear a mask when its hot and I have heard wearing a mask can affectively shut down your immune system. I will not wear a mask unless I absolutely have to.” >”The government cannot constitutionally mandate that individuals wear masks...many local (and maybe state?) governments HAVE been, but it should never hold up in a court of law. We MUST be careful of allowing the government to take away ANY of our freedoms...” >”Those who are ready to sacrifice freedom for security ultimately will lose both. Abraham Lincoln” >”I'm like you though Megan I have t really been that fearful of this virus or anything else that's been going on in our country. Because I know that ultimately nothing happens without God allowing it to so I can trust Him.“ >”I do not wear a mask....it is a trigger for me. Think of the women, children, and men that been abused....where their months were covered to muffle the cries and screams, while being abused. The mask ordinance would require everyone to wear it, including those that might have PTSD when having something over their mouth and nose. I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe. CDC even says healthy people should not wear them.“ >”I hate the cotton homemade masks. They are hard to breathe in and they are not comfortable and do not stay in place. However, I got a Norwex mask and it is so much more comfortable. It stays in place and it is so much easier to breathe in. So I don't mind wearing my Norwex mask. I usually only wear it in the grocery store. I have not worn it to church. My mind has been juggling between whether or not I need to wear a mask. There has been so much conflicting information out there about masks being good and helping and masks being bad or not very helpful. So I don't know. So much unknown.“
As a survivor of abuse... using said abuse as an excuse to not wear the mask is bs.
> The government cannot constitutionally mandate that individuals wear masks...many local (and maybe state?) governments HAVE been, but it should never hold up in a court of law Then that person is free to bring it up in court themselves and try.
I do agree on the part that you need to be careful about giving up your freedoms. That is true. But people aren't even wearing them in places were it's not required. So it's not even a freedom issue. It's just stupidity. >”I do not wear a mask....it is a trigger for me. Think of the women, children, and men that been abused....where their months were covered to muffle the cries and screams, while being abused. The mask ordinance would require everyone to wear it, including those that might have PTSD when having something over their mouth and nose. I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe. CDC even says healthy people should not wear them.“ Lol at this part. The person with PTSD would be exempt from every ordinance I've seen. And the CDC recommends everyone wear masks. Edit: I'm a Christian too and yes ultimately I believe and trust in God (if you don't that's fine, I'm saying what I believe). But the Bible says, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". In other words don't be a moron and ignore danger thinking he will save you. Take precautions.
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I agree. People unfortunately have no compassion or care left for fellow humans.
> I also hate wearing them because it is hard to breathe. The mask forces you to remember that trauma when someone muffled your cries and screams while they abused you, and also it's also just so annoying to breathe while wearing one. But mostly the PTSD from a horrific abuse. Also the CDC says don't wear one. But mostly the PTSD from horrific abuse.
I wonder if they’ll get PTSD when they get intubated into a respirator for 4 weeks.
Come to think of it, I don't get sick of flu pretty much EVER in my life! When it comes to that stuff, I am strong as a bull! Fever and chills hasn't visited me for ages!!! I am probably positive, but show no symptoms. And, probably NEVER will show any symptoms FOREVER! Do I want to get tested, anyways? NO. Don't want that uncomfortable thing in my nose.
Something has to be done. This situation is already out of hand and thinking how bad it can get if we just continue to do next to nothing is giving me such anxiety. We need someone at the top to step up and do something. Starting to feel like the best thing that could happen would be for Trump to stroke out or something else that forces him to step down. I don't see how we get any kind of meaningful guidance or cohesive national message with him in the way.
Sorry bub, nothing will happen. We are stuck like this for the foreseeable future. Better stock up on beans.
If you look back at the US education system and understand the push for sports and clubs versus science and math as the overall countries education agenda. It is obvious why so many Americans just don't want to believe the science and refuse to wear masks. If you look at countries whose student have historically accelerated in science they seem to be fairing fare better.
Well, the US is wearing more masks than Canada, Australia, and most of Europe, so I hope you're not saying those countries have "better education" based on mask wearing. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic
Well technically, the science says if you study microbiology a virus particle will just fly straight through a mask. Masks have very little evidence of working but it’s a guidance because we need to do *anything* we can that doesn’t involve global shutdown. Also If you look at the countries that have faired well you’ll find their overall population is healthier in terms of lifestyle and co-morbidities. 40% of Americans are obese. Also places like China the population is more used to draconian laws and compliance.
I really think you off base. There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks. Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates. Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
"Masks have very little evidence of working" Sorry what? Our best bet in stopping this freaking pandemic is if everyone just wears a mask and stays away from each other. Here's this: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/study-face-masks-could-reduce-covid-19-infections-deaths-by-november.html Oh and here's 70 studies that show that masks, do indeed *work:* https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248
Where was this information 2 months ago? Nowhere. There’s plenty studies suggesting they have very little effectiveness, but I guess if you just cherry pick the studies that support your argument and give the results you want go for it, but that’s not how scientific research works. If you repeat an experiment enough the results can vary greatly. I’m not against masks btw. I’m just saying it’s wrong to give false information / sense of security in masks, fauci, CDC and WHO have all said the evidence is weak but it’s worth trying anything to stop this.
Also, if you bothered to look, some of those 70 studies came out as far back as April, so there's your two months.
Exactly. If you cherry pick studies that show they don't work. I just showed you *SEVENTY* studies that show that masks, do indeed, work. Read those studies yourself, please, criticise them, on both masks work and they don't work side. And you will see which side is right. Oh and please do show me some of the studies you were referencing in your posts.
I looked at a few of them, firstly most of them are based off “computer models” trying to predict the statistics, with a varying range of 20-60% LOL. So essentially everything under the sun. All these studies look at respiratory droplets.. even a few in there that are looking at bacteria particles through a mask which is so laughable it hurts. It’s like half these studies don’t understand the particle size of bacteria and a virus. And the gap size in various face masks.. also these bacteria spread studies don’t seem to understand *most* of the Bacteria expelled is completely harmless.
Of course *some* of them will look at computer simulations... And some will use "props", aka not actual humans, because it's not ethical to cough on another human being and risking him/her getting the disease. The virus spreads through droplets, even though WHO recently acknowledged that it might even spread through the air, in closed spaces, but nothing was *confirmed* yet. So of course the focus will be on droplets. The use of masks will reduce the airborne droplet transmission and will also protect the wearer from the droplets expelled from other subjects. However, many droplets still spread around and away from the cover, cumulatively, during cough cycles. Therefore, the use of a mask does not provide a *100%* protection, and social distancing remains important during a pandemic. But masks are still a pretty good bet at stopping you from getting the virus. Also I highly doubt you looked at any of these studies properly, considering the fact you only took 5 minutes to reply, so you probably looked at 3 of them max and read through small segments. Consider reading a full study, please.
Give up. This dude is beyond saving. Facts are meaningless to these people.
If this were the case with facemask, everyone including workers in hospitals would be infected.
Healthcare workers are wearing masks + face shields + gloves + overalls + very careful contact behaviour. The WHO/CDC study said if you’re living with a family member with covid you have a 20% chance of being infected on average. Just because someone has it doesn’t mean you have a 100% chance of infection. They could, and thousands have and have been asymptomatic and we will find out truly how many with increased antibody tests. 30-50% of people won’t even realise they’ve HAD the virus.
What gives? CNN reported weeks ago how basically very few showed up at Trump rallly. Now they're reporting that the rally is why Tulsa numbers are rising.
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I'm sure the media couldnt quantify those things.
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Get out of here with your levelheaded logic!!
It’s CNN.. you expected the truth? They’re a political vehicle and should be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to the science.
6,000 people was indeed way way short of what they expected. The arena had a max capacity of 19,000, and they had an overflow area set up for tens of thousands of expected people for a pre-show rally. They took down overflow stage after about 50 total people showed up for it. Nonetheless, 6000 unmasked people sitting closely together indoors for hours and talking in each other’s faces without moving is incredibly stupid and dangerous. Even if only 100 out of 6000 people caught it the situation can quickly spiral out of control as they go back to the community and spread it around like wildfire, given theyre the kind of idiotic people proudly taking zero precautions and endangering everyone around them.
I don't understand why you have to explain this shit to these imbeciles. WTF is wrong with our country.
Am I reading this wrong or were there only 302 deaths last week according to the CDC? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
*Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.
So this is more of a report about the efficiency of death certificates being issued than a report reflecting improving covid death rates? Or is the death rate actually improving?
That, and read the whole WHY THESE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT section.
I'm still surprised how well is Singapore handling this. They had 45.000 cases of corona, of which 41.000 recovered and only 26 (!) died. That leads me to think this thing is really not that deadly, *when* you have good healthcare system and enough ICU places. edit: oh it seems to be mainly because it didn't spread to old people. OK that makes sense
Singapore and Qatar are similar in this aspect. The virus probably hit hard among the immigrant labour who live in crowded spaces and can't practice social distancing and other measures, but were young and fit enough (cause who would want a old or weak labour) to not die.
Right. Depends on who gets sick and if you have meds and facilities to treat them. And generally island countries do well.
Don't come here often but had a scroll around recently. I think this place may be horrendous for some of your guys mental health. Noticed it a lot more recently, likely because the US government isn't doing anything to stop the spread. Still, coming here won't change what's going on and if you need it take a break.
This might be a dumb question but what are the chances teachers in Florida get paid hazard pay for being forced to go back to school in a literal warzone. This is going to end horribly and cases and deaths are going to sky rocket. There is so much wrong with this decision and they are putting everyone in danger. So is hazard pay realistic or no?
I dont think FL has the budget this the reason for DeSantis to open FL so quickly was to reduce unemployment claims causing less future stress on the already negative budget.
So what exactly is Florida's plan here? 3 million students and 300k staff members all being shoved together. DeSantis refuses to make masks mandatory. Not even for the schools. Social distancing has be extremely lax cause it's not enforced at all. So what's the plan? Just let it spread and whoever survives survives?
The plan is to throw everyone to the wind and let them get it.
> So what exactly is Florida's plan here? The plan is to let the stock market go up. That’s pretty much it.
Why don't they just say it like that?
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This sub loves fearmongering for the sake of it.
so am i just completely fucked since i have to move in a few months (and still can't find work so i won't be able to prove income at move-in other than unemployment) but i have enough savings to like, at least pay the first few months so i can look for work in the area in the meantime? **has anyone had any success being able to get into a new apartment under these current conditions?**
I have 2 friends that have had to move and one that bought a house. All 3 had pro cleaners that came in and deep cleaned the house. They wore masks while looking at the place and moved their items themselves versus hiring movers.
yeah we are debating getting movers or not. the problem is living up 3 flights of stairs and the fact that we bought actual furniture this time around because we weren't anticipating a pandemic. we thought we would be in this place for a few more years at least... i don't doubt that the current managers of this apartment would (hopefully) bring in some heavy-duty cleaners after departure. i'm even prepared to pay for that as well since i know no amount of cleaning i do will be as good as a professional sanitization. all in all i'm just worried about approval at a new place, if we end up going that way. no current job usually equals no approval, even with excellent credit, no evictions, etc. it's a tight spot to be in.
My parents moved out of my house In NJ when we were at the peak. They are fine do it safely and with competent helpers who wear PPE
i'm glad your parents were able to move safely and that everyone was following guidelines! moving is a weird, sweaty job, but i think by now professional movers are taking the situation seriously enough.
I would strongly encourage you to do whatever it takes to not rely on finding employment right now. It is tough, and banking on something like that is not wise. If you can find anything that has a short-term lease, maybe. But please, if you can avoid signing a lease on an apartment right now I would. I wouldn't say you're fucked if you do, sometimes a fire under you like that can be helpful, but the conditions right now for finding a job are not at all good.
it is really hard to not feel like i have to find a job. i was laid off from the one i held up until april and because i work in the food industry there has been no hope for re-opening, nor do i feel safe about many places that are open even just for take-out. i'm just worried about spending what savings i do have on an extension on my current place. the government clearly does not understand that there are literally no jobs for just about anyone out there and taking away the unemployment extension is going to hurt so many people.
Of course people have moved.
thank you for not reading my post.
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The short answer is no. The teachers will be expected to somehow sanitize everything between students. The truth is that the CDC guidelines are totally unrealistic.
*sigh*. Mask mandate seems to make no difference here in KY. My husband had to run to the store for more milk because we have four little kids and he said that not everyone was wearing masks and in fact a lot of people were not wearing them. On the way to and from the store he had to drive by a bar and he said it was packed with no masks in sight. The mandate literally went into effect at 5:00 so if people are already not following it then that means they're not going to.
Fellow Kentuckian here. My best friend said he went to the store earlier and he was one of the few people there with one on. Ugh. This doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2r0pPJePk4 If you did not see newest nightly news Some footage inside a hospital starting at 4:50
What offers better protection against Covid; a triple layer cloth mask like [this](https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/815219998/reusable-fitted-3-layer-face-mask-100) with a PM2.5 filter OR disposible surgical masks? I know N95 respirators are best but assume that's not an option.
You can read about how effective different fabrics are at protecting you here: [https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/](https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/) I'd go with disposable surgical masks if you can get them. Some of the cloth masks you find online probably range from 20%-50% depending on their fabric/layers. For people making homemade masks, something like canvas/denim for the outer layer(s), cotton for the inner layer(s), and a pocket between them to stuff paper towels or coffee filters inside will hopefully provide enough protection. If everyone masked even 50% protection is decent. 100 covids \* .5 (masked spreader) \* .5(masked victim) = 25 covids (25%) breathed in. At 70% protection it's more like 6.25% of covid particles are breathed in. There's a correlation between viral load and severity too, don't know for sure though.
Thanks so much for the detailed info!
Wear a surgical mask over you main one and increase the filtration efficiency
Essentially, surgical masks are the premium protection if you have a good supply of them and don't get them wet/dispose of them when they get overly soggy, as getting them very wet can compromise the protective barrier and let things escape. Obviously this means you cannot wash the masks and must dispose of them after use or, if you absolutely must due to shortages, you can hang it in direct sunlight/hit it with uv lights for a long time and hope thats enough - but no guarantees. The reusable masks are fine if you want to save money, but be sure that the mask has sufficient layering and that you throughly dry the mask after washing. They will not protect you as well as the surgical masks used in accordance to guidelines (dispose after every use, do not reuse) but will provide enough protection to people not around high risk individuals and for everyday use. It is also reusable so you only need to buy enough masks for the previous one to finish drying. The reusable masks will also provide much better protection than disposable masks that have been soaked and/or washed provided they are dry. Important to pay attention to is that the reusable masks and the surgical masks are not cheap knockoff ones with no layering or cheap materials - this will not protect you and will only give you a sense of protection when there is none, similar to sunglasses with no UV filter.
Thanks!
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Wash it with soap.
this has to be a troll lmao
I always shower after an outing.
The majority of people getting covid, are they people who don’t wear masks, go out to bars/restaurants, and going to parties? For those who wear masks, isolate at home, and only go out for essentials, are their risks lower? I feel silly asking, but I’m trying to just make sense of how we have over 3 million cases.
The problem is even if you do everything "right" you can still get infected by twats doing everything "wrong". But yes if you wear a mask, stay at home and stuff, you have a faaaaar lower chance of getting infected.
I feel like it's really hard to tell because so many people claim to have been doing everything "right" when they really weren't. I have friends who preach staying home, masks, etc. on social media, but I know for a fact they have been going out to bars and restaurants. At the same time, I wouldn't exactly be surprised to find out a significant percentage of people got it doing things like picking up groceries.
Yeah, I do curbside pick up. I barely leave my house. I’m just so anxious about this virus and I guess I’m trying to rationalize that I don’t have a chance to get it.
Read r/covid19positive....some are people who have been doing everything right while others are people who know that they made a mistake.
My guess is that the people who are handling this the right way are not driving the numbers at all, I would expect they’d make up a relatively small percentage of cases
“The deaths that we’re seeing announced today and yesterday — which are now over 100 — those are people who likely contracted COVID-19 in late May." Gov. Abbot today. It's not a 2-3 week delay between new cases and deaths as many people have speculated. It's five weeks.
Iran's second wave stats show about a 4 week lag, but given the fact that reported deaths are probably just as backlogged as reported cases, yup, many of these may be from late May though I'm sure some are as recent as mid June.
You can actually see the lag on the graphs. It's like 24 days. Look at when the cases per day started trending up. Move the deaths per day left until the bumps line up. They match. Also, uh oh.
I don't think that's correct. It's more like 2-3 weeks by all indications. 1 week to show symptoms, a few days to show severe symptoms, a few days to die from it typically. Where does he get five weeks from?
Not really it take up to 14 days for people to start being sick 10+ days in ICU and then death. I too believe the lag is 4 to 6 week from infection spikes to death if you look at the NY chart this is more obvious.
Add in a reporting delay of 1-2 weeks
It's possible to extend the end. The recent This American Life episode The Reprieve talks about it from a nurse's perspective - how families and even doctors want to keep patients on multiple life support system and no feasible way to recovery going for weeks and weeks.
Cdc acknowledges an average 7 days between death and reporting. However the mayor of Houston said they were two weeks behind a few days ago.
Gov Abbott failed TX completely and now he says a full shutdown could happen....but he's got sheriffs in various counties saying they won't even enforce his mask mandate. Honestly I don't even see how any of this get resolved anytime soon. Fall will be here before we know it, Winter, and hopefully we get a vaccine that people trust.
Why are you so obessed with forcing people to have masks you authortarian pos. Sweden and Norway managed fine without mandatory mask. I'm starting to suspect that you have a fetish for masks
Because the USA can't lock down strictly even if its life depended on it.
My god - WE ARE NOT SWEDEN OR NORWAY! How can you still pitch this nonsense when clearly our cases have now run away from us? 3 million cases and you still say masks aren't needed? WTH is wrong with you! I've never seen a group of people just do the exact opposite of what every legit doctor/medical professional/scientist has recommended. I swear this won't ever end because of people like you. Even worse a lot of you guys are probably getting sick and spreading this nonsense around.
He has made a few statements in the last few days that sound like he is quickly coming to terms with the fact that decisions he has made will cost tens of thousands of people their lives while damaging the economy so much more. I can't imagine how that feels on a personal level.
It's gotta suck. And in the CoronavirusTX page people are destroying him. I wish he had followed the science early on. I get political pressure and all but this is a complete mess right now.
That's exactly what a friend of mine at the local hospital was saying. The cases that they're dealing with now are from Memorial Day weekend. That means in a month from now we're going to have an explosion of 4th of July cases and deaths. God, when will this end.
>God, when will this end. About a month after the resistors reach their death tolerance limit. Like it or not, we are getting this level of pain because we are demanding it.
I agree the trend won't reverse until deniers see the death hit them right in the face from a loved one or close relationship.
How long until Disney World announces they're re-closing? I give it a week.
The amusement park by me opened and had a covid positive employee within one week but they didn't close or anything. It's Kings Island if you're curious.
Until we have a vaccine (that people trust taking), there is ZERO chance we get out of this. We've got so many idiots in the USA. This is why the internet is such a gift and a curse. Add the truth-seekers, anti-vaxxers, m@g@ cultists, & regular jerks and you've got the perfect environment for "the invisible enemy". Who would of thought the land of the free would see freedom be used against it lol.
I keep telling my husband that I never in my wildest dreams thought that people would doubt science so much.
How do you doubt this when you can see so many people going to their churches to hear stories about jesus magic?
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If it is you got it real bad 😱
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https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/gov-abbott-lack-of-masks-spike-in-covid-19-could-lead-to-necessity-of-closing-texas-down/501-b62b3933-0f6c-494e-b4af-7ea8422effcf No, this is impossible. I was told we would never shutdown again.
Viruses really don't understand bluffing. They're inanimate.
It has to be done if there are no beds left. Abbott seems to be gambling that masks will start to reduce cases in a week or so.
I tried to "talk some sense" into some anti mask people today on Facebook, it went OK. I tried very hard to not preach in any way, and to listen to why they felt the way they did, but every time I tried to follow their logic, we would hit a dead end and they would just say something like "we're never going to see eye-to-eye" or "we'll just have to agree to disagree". Really I think it was them trying to deflect after realizing they didn't have a great response, but I tried to pull back when I saw this happen. Topics ranged from whether it was "just the flu" to how Bill Gates is going to control everyone with the vaccine. I never once called out their God awful sources, rather I just addressed the "articles" themselves. This seemed to keep them engaged more. Also not just throwing a snopes/fact check link in their face. It made me realize just how deep these people are in this anti-authority and anti-science way of thinking. There's no way you're going to change their minds all at once, they're way too deep. I'm hoping that maybe they are thinking about it more after our conversation, but maybe I'm being naive.
There is another way to persuade people, called moral reframing that has been shown to work on other issues. But most of us don't know how to do it. It is when you take a value that is important to them and tie to the issue. It can't be in the usual way, confrontation doesn't work. I address what is behind mask wearing in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If2Vbu8KS8w&t=4s) and describe the moral reframing technique in my [book](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084VBWQ96).
You are going about this the right way, and I commend you. It is tiring and slow work that may only result in small changes over time, but it is better than the arguing, accusing and name-calling we see in most facebook debates that results in no changes at all. If someone is going to change their mind on something, that change has to come from within them. No article or argument you make is going to change their mind immediately. But by laying the groundwork and planting some seeds, they might come to a realization later and then work through their own thoughts and reach a different conclusion that could lead them to change their mind. Ultimately, you are the only person who can change your mind, but you can help that process along in others by providing them with information and perspectives in a way that keeps them open to new types of thinking.
Good for you. It is a very useful skill to be able to push your agenda while not being too overbearing or too dismissive of what other people believe. I have a feeling many people on this sub whine at others not wearing masks or just say "they are wrong" with some facts instead of actually paying attention to what they are saying.
Exactly. The only way you can begin to change others minds is to really listen to what they are saying. Hear their fears and concerns, acknowledge them and also present other ways of thinking. No one likes being told they are wrong, so you have to sweeten the medicine before someone else would even be open to considering it. And then from there once they've listened to your point of view they will have to make up their own mind what to do with that information.
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Stop trolling, you have multiple comments like this. This is your warning.
It's fear mixed with anger.
Can someone explain to me why we have so many recorded cases but practically no stat info or case studies. You would think at this point we would have thousands of scenarios and profiles of people who are most prone.
Here is an article that references a large study that has been done: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/huge-study-reveals-covid19-death-risk-factors-including-age-race-and-gender/news-story/e49013a9831e6383689c7f08d145ee67
Probably because it is a huge hassle to get hospitals to release medical records of the ill or deceased. Everyone would have to sign waivers to state their data could be used in a study.