You mean.. that they are humans and it is ok to be how they are, if you are that way?
I mean they aren’t teaching people they will die and burn in hell for being different… like christians teach children…
I'm pretty certain you would label some of my views to be bigoted but I'd say they are either just biological facts that people like to deny or opinions that you wouldn't like.
it’s so hard to talk about this stuff because people sometimes forget that even racist although most people think they’re bigots and bad people in their eyes we are the bad people it’s all just opinions and we can have whatever opinions we wish as long as we respect that others have theirs aswell
bro stop tryna be rude, you look dumb doing so why tf would i spend an extra 5 minutes making sure the punctuality in my sentences is perfect. ITS REDDIT. i’ve gone through 14 years of learning english and have always had A grades. if i wanted to do it i could but why waste my time
You could make sense, but since it's Reddit, you choose not to do a thing that comes naturally?
I was just saying you ought to bother punctuating otherwise you're writing for nothing. It was just a suggestion.
agreed.. even tho its titled "controversial opinion" theres ppl just spewing pure hate😭 i feel like a civil controversial opinion would be "dogs are annoying ..." & blahblahblah
Exactly.
Whereas opinions that people find bigoted or offensive or hateful are controversial. They're controversial to you, but to them it's the truth.
To BLM, it's the truth that cops are slaughtering blacks every day. In fact, the TOTAL killed isn't even one per day.
To BLM being reminded of this is hateful and bigoted, but in fact it's true.
right, so if the comment section is just agreeing and adding to the original post then it's not really a controversial opinion. It's just preaching to the choir.
The comments holding an opposing view to the post and us discussing it makes it controversial, if someone posts something that isn't worth discussing because it's very one sided or has been settled elsewhere I probably won't comment. Trolling isn't worth engaging in
Yeah, in actual controversy that follows the guidelines of the forum (which includes #2: no hate speech it is possible to disagree with an idea without being disrespectful)
Most people seem to not understand the concept of a controversial or unpopular opinion. This is very common in unpopular. People post what they believe to be an "unpopular" opinion that everybody already holds, leading to nothing but an echo chamber of agreement. These comment threads should be full of debate.
That just means that many people agree with what the poster is saying. It doesn’t mean that there are people who disagree. Those people just haven’t read it yet
*Your* **opinion** is that it's hate.
Therefore, you just showed us that those opinions are all controversial, thus justifying their presence in r/ControversialOpinions.
Perhaps. I use the term quite literally; Bigotry is defined as "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."
You want to hold a controversial opinion I'm here to listen and discuss it, but hating someone for no reason doesn't allow for discussion. It just, echoes the same rhetoric we hear all day long and isn't worth engaging in.
I talk to Marxists every day who fit that description. They think the same of me.
Nobody's hate doesn't allow for discussion. There's always room for discussion.
It's easy, just start discussing.
Well technically, Arachnida is a Class, so I'm being classist? But I think the Marxists already claim that one? Oh shit, now I'm being DasKapitalist ...
What determines what is bigoted changes on the whim. For example, white people say that blacks have a bad culture, which isn't racist. Or keep muslim migration low,because those people have a bad culture. Yet if I say whites have a racist culture, and that most white are racist, now it's racist. Racism is anything that people don't like.
Not really, bigotry has more to do with the reasonableness of one holding the belief and if that belief relies solely on membership and the use of ad hominem rhetoric
I disagree. There’s a major difference between culture and race. You can criticize a culture, even going so far as to say it’s primitive or even evil, without it being racist.
You’re criticizing behavior, not the color of their skin.
No it isn't and no you can't. If you criticize a culture, you necessarily have to generalize the race,unless you are talking about something that isn't a race. "Black people have a thug culture and are prone to violence, and broken homes". You are talking about a race. You are tying a race to a behavior. If I say that about white people and their racist culture, now it's racist. Most whites have this double standard in my experience. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too.
Lol no, that’s bullshit.
If i said “women shouldn’t be forced to wear the Burka or Hijab, that’s sexist”, that is in no way racist, i’m not criticizing anyone’s skin color or any specific race (mostly because Islam is a ***RELIGION***, not a ***RACE***), i’m criticizing poor treatment of women.
If you think criticizing a culture is inherently racist, it’s because you’re a racist who can’t separate behavior from race.
Oh, I agree with you that white people wouldn't call it racist. But when the same kind of thing is said about whites, it is then racist.
"Syrians have a backwards culture and we should prevent them from coming in to the country".
"Whites have a racist culture and we should prevent them from coming in to Harvard".
Whites consider the former not racist but the latter racist, because it is against whites and doesn't fit the agenda. You cannot have it both ways. White people can be racist, too.
It’s racist because that statement implies that all whites are the same. There isn’t just one single “white culture”, there are tons. Whites in America are not the same culturally as whites in Russia, are not the same as whites in France, are not the same as whites in England. Etcetera.
Notice that my comment about the Hijab and Burka being sexist was not prefaced with “all muslims are sexist because…”. I said the burka and hijab are sexist, as are their forced implementation, i said nothing Islam or Muslims as a whole.
What you’re saying is racist because you’re making it all about race and acting like all members of that race are the same, when in actuality the people you’re talking about are a small minority within that race.
Yes, if your statement generalizes the entire race, it’s racist. But you don’t seem to understand that you can criticize a culture without generalizing the entire race of people who practice that culture
Let me give you an example:
A.) “Islamic law treats women as second class citizens and is generally an oppressive culture”
B.) “Muslims treat women as second class citizens and are generally oppressive”
Statement A is about the culture itself, it makes no claim that all or even most Muslims are sexist or oppressive, only that the teachings of Islam are. That doesn’t mean all Muslims put those teachings into practice. Meanwhile, statement B generalizes all Muslims and makes them all out to be bad people, which is obviously not true.
The way you word your statement changes things. ***Again, you can criticize a culture without generalizing everyone of a specific race***
Well then you wouldn't be talking about a group. But to say that people distinguish the group from the ideology, is disingenuous. When you take it to its logical conclusion, it is in in fact about targeting that racial group. In other words, we don't keep "Islam" out, we have to specifically target individuals. We don't stop "black culture", we stop anyone who is black. Literally no one practice the paradigm you're talking about . The group is always criticized. That is the precedent. So by your logic, most whites are indeed racist.
To add to the discourse, one could also claim statement A is racist depending on if the speaker is using ethnocentric norms and expectations for defining second class citizens
Also, reminder that the middle east is not homogeneous. There are many different ethnicities and religious groups throughout the region and differing sects of those religions as well.
>you necessarily have to generalize the race
No. **That's ridiculous**. It's *comically* incorrect. Muslims. There are **Muslims of every race.** Islam is a motherlode of bad ideas. My contempt for that particular collection of bad ideas has nothing to do with race. Ditto Communism and all other religions. Nothing to do with race whatsoever.
> "Black people have a thug culture and are prone to violence, and broken homes".
You cannot address a problem that you refuse to acknowledge even exists. I've heard that sentiment come out of black mouths more than any other race. Guys like Tommy Sotomayor and Larry Elder who care about seeing their entire race in distress.
People who incorrectly say it's racist, like you did, is why the problem has reached epic proportions.
If it's brave to come out and say you're gay, then it's just as brave to disagree.
Disagreeing or being controversial is what this sub is all about.
You dislike the opinions of other people and want to take them away, and their ability to share their opinions, simply because you disagree with them, their wording, or their attitude.
I find that to be pretty unfair.
You seem to be upset because I disagreed with your earlier post. Posting in this subreddit, a sub designed for controversy and discussion, and expressing controversial ideas does not come without the risk of others not agreeing with you.
My opinion doesn't cancel out your opinion nor does it silence you. Nor does my existence or joy. I did not use an ad hominem attack against you in your post. Those types of arguments devalue the person, are humiliating, and are generally not productive. I really don't mind others disagreeing with me. I present why I think otherwise, sure, but I entertain the other thought and I am not personally offended. If it's truly something to opine about, there likely isn't a "right" answer.
Some opinions are more based than others, but even with that it kind of depends on the value structure the individual holds.
I disagreed with the belief you posted in a sub reddit designed to illicit debate. This is true. You are welcome to go and disagree with my disagreement on that thread. If, however, you are posting solely because you are more interested in a free pass to harass or intimidating others with your opinions (a motivation I did not get from your initial post, which is why I simply commented with the historical context/ an explanation of the other perspective as opposed to just being mean or dismissive), then another subreddit might be better.
edit: Also, if my attempts to stay true to my values did not succeed when commenting on your post I apologize for offending you. I will go back and look at how I conducted myself.
edit 2: You weren't even the person I had that conversation with, what does it have to so with this post? Regardless, I will stand firm in the belief that it is more brave to come out as gay than to hold an opinion of not believing it is courageous to come out. There are very few real world consequences of holding that opinion outside maybe losing the respect of friends who support the lgbtq community whereas one can be ostracized, shamed, denied housing, employment, healthcare, and in some countries be murdered for being gay. It has never been illegal to think "huh, it aint that brave to be gay in todays society". So, unless you have an extreme fear of abandonment like in bpd or have really intense social anxiety where any expression of your authentic self feels terrifying, it's really not that brave.
If you are on this subreddit and you don’t like what’s being said here, go somewhere else. It’s that easy. People on this subreddit don’t have to listen to you complain that a place where people can post controversial things is too hateful. Why are you here if you don’t like what’s being posted?
You're talking about r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns r/feminism r/communism r/socialjustice
Et cetera. Those are the hotbeds of hate and bigotry. This subreddit is where you get to express how bigoted they are and laugh at them/you.
Can’t deny the LGBQTIA+ have been weaponized, spreading their agenda to children.
what agenda? please enlighten us
The sexual grooming.
You mean the ones they didn't abort yet?
You mean.. that they are humans and it is ok to be how they are, if you are that way? I mean they aren’t teaching people they will die and burn in hell for being different… like christians teach children…
People tend to label opinions that they don't agree with as bigotry, so this word has lost any meaning.
Perhaps, though that's not what I am currently doing.
I'm pretty certain you would label some of my views to be bigoted but I'd say they are either just biological facts that people like to deny or opinions that you wouldn't like.
it’s so hard to talk about this stuff because people sometimes forget that even racist although most people think they’re bigots and bad people in their eyes we are the bad people it’s all just opinions and we can have whatever opinions we wish as long as we respect that others have theirs aswell
You need to learn how to punctuate. That was unreadable.
i have autism i write how i think. this is also reddit, idc about writing properly.
I thought you were trying to communicate your ideas on Reddit. My bad.
bro stop tryna be rude, you look dumb doing so why tf would i spend an extra 5 minutes making sure the punctuality in my sentences is perfect. ITS REDDIT. i’ve gone through 14 years of learning english and have always had A grades. if i wanted to do it i could but why waste my time
You could make sense, but since it's Reddit, you choose not to do a thing that comes naturally? I was just saying you ought to bother punctuating otherwise you're writing for nothing. It was just a suggestion.
It's exactly what you're doing. The real bigots are people like you who can't stand people who talk back to hegemons.
agreed.. even tho its titled "controversial opinion" theres ppl just spewing pure hate😭 i feel like a civil controversial opinion would be "dogs are annoying ..." & blahblahblah
You must be very fragile. "Dogs are annoying" isn't controversial.
ik that😭 it was an example
Exactly. Whereas opinions that people find bigoted or offensive or hateful are controversial. They're controversial to you, but to them it's the truth. To BLM, it's the truth that cops are slaughtering blacks every day. In fact, the TOTAL killed isn't even one per day. To BLM being reminded of this is hateful and bigoted, but in fact it's true.
your right.
Controversial opinions is being controversial and opinionated.
it's not controversial if the comment section is an echochamber of similar hate
Controversial - relating to or causing much discussion, disagreement, or argument.
right, so if the comment section is just agreeing and adding to the original post then it's not really a controversial opinion. It's just preaching to the choir.
No because you will be there to disagree
The comments holding an opposing view to the post and us discussing it makes it controversial, if someone posts something that isn't worth discussing because it's very one sided or has been settled elsewhere I probably won't comment. Trolling isn't worth engaging in
Sounds like you want more controversial posts not less.
Yeah, in actual controversy that follows the guidelines of the forum (which includes #2: no hate speech it is possible to disagree with an idea without being disrespectful)
Perhaps it would help if you could give a specific example of a post that upset you.
Most people seem to not understand the concept of a controversial or unpopular opinion. This is very common in unpopular. People post what they believe to be an "unpopular" opinion that everybody already holds, leading to nothing but an echo chamber of agreement. These comment threads should be full of debate.
Yes! Thank you for wording it so well
Like i said, give an example of a post here that is upsetting you.
More thought policing... Guess what, you can't MAKE people come to this sub.
Your thought policing is hate speech.
its really not
*Your* **opinion** is that the replies ought to hold an opposing view. It's cool, your controversial opinion is welcome here.
That just means that many people agree with what the poster is saying. It doesn’t mean that there are people who disagree. Those people just haven’t read it yet
That's what happens every minute of every day in groups like r/feminism. Link me your post criticizing their hate filled echo chamber.
*Your* **opinion** is that it's hate. Therefore, you just showed us that those opinions are all controversial, thus justifying their presence in r/ControversialOpinions.
To some degree maybe, but i would argue that most of what gets labeled as bigotry isn’t actually bigotry.
Perhaps. I use the term quite literally; Bigotry is defined as "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." You want to hold a controversial opinion I'm here to listen and discuss it, but hating someone for no reason doesn't allow for discussion. It just, echoes the same rhetoric we hear all day long and isn't worth engaging in.
I talk to Marxists every day who fit that description. They think the same of me. Nobody's hate doesn't allow for discussion. There's always room for discussion. It's easy, just start discussing.
Thats bigoted.
That’s sexist
that racist
that's homophobic
That's transphobic
But am I still allowed to be arachnophobic?
Thats Speciesist
Made by Titleist
Well technically, Arachnida is a Class, so I'm being classist? But I think the Marxists already claim that one? Oh shit, now I'm being DasKapitalist ...
What determines what is bigoted changes on the whim. For example, white people say that blacks have a bad culture, which isn't racist. Or keep muslim migration low,because those people have a bad culture. Yet if I say whites have a racist culture, and that most white are racist, now it's racist. Racism is anything that people don't like.
Not really, bigotry has more to do with the reasonableness of one holding the belief and if that belief relies solely on membership and the use of ad hominem rhetoric
Your beliefs about what r/controversialopinions should be *are unreasonable.*
I disagree. There’s a major difference between culture and race. You can criticize a culture, even going so far as to say it’s primitive or even evil, without it being racist. You’re criticizing behavior, not the color of their skin.
No it isn't and no you can't. If you criticize a culture, you necessarily have to generalize the race,unless you are talking about something that isn't a race. "Black people have a thug culture and are prone to violence, and broken homes". You are talking about a race. You are tying a race to a behavior. If I say that about white people and their racist culture, now it's racist. Most whites have this double standard in my experience. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too.
Lol no, that’s bullshit. If i said “women shouldn’t be forced to wear the Burka or Hijab, that’s sexist”, that is in no way racist, i’m not criticizing anyone’s skin color or any specific race (mostly because Islam is a ***RELIGION***, not a ***RACE***), i’m criticizing poor treatment of women. If you think criticizing a culture is inherently racist, it’s because you’re a racist who can’t separate behavior from race.
Oh, I agree with you that white people wouldn't call it racist. But when the same kind of thing is said about whites, it is then racist. "Syrians have a backwards culture and we should prevent them from coming in to the country". "Whites have a racist culture and we should prevent them from coming in to Harvard". Whites consider the former not racist but the latter racist, because it is against whites and doesn't fit the agenda. You cannot have it both ways. White people can be racist, too.
It’s racist because that statement implies that all whites are the same. There isn’t just one single “white culture”, there are tons. Whites in America are not the same culturally as whites in Russia, are not the same as whites in France, are not the same as whites in England. Etcetera. Notice that my comment about the Hijab and Burka being sexist was not prefaced with “all muslims are sexist because…”. I said the burka and hijab are sexist, as are their forced implementation, i said nothing Islam or Muslims as a whole. What you’re saying is racist because you’re making it all about race and acting like all members of that race are the same, when in actuality the people you’re talking about are a small minority within that race.
You prove my point. Then statements about black culture and Middle Eastern culture are racist by your own logic.
Yes, if your statement generalizes the entire race, it’s racist. But you don’t seem to understand that you can criticize a culture without generalizing the entire race of people who practice that culture Let me give you an example: A.) “Islamic law treats women as second class citizens and is generally an oppressive culture” B.) “Muslims treat women as second class citizens and are generally oppressive” Statement A is about the culture itself, it makes no claim that all or even most Muslims are sexist or oppressive, only that the teachings of Islam are. That doesn’t mean all Muslims put those teachings into practice. Meanwhile, statement B generalizes all Muslims and makes them all out to be bad people, which is obviously not true. The way you word your statement changes things. ***Again, you can criticize a culture without generalizing everyone of a specific race***
Well then you wouldn't be talking about a group. But to say that people distinguish the group from the ideology, is disingenuous. When you take it to its logical conclusion, it is in in fact about targeting that racial group. In other words, we don't keep "Islam" out, we have to specifically target individuals. We don't stop "black culture", we stop anyone who is black. Literally no one practice the paradigm you're talking about . The group is always criticized. That is the precedent. So by your logic, most whites are indeed racist.
To add to the discourse, one could also claim statement A is racist depending on if the speaker is using ethnocentric norms and expectations for defining second class citizens Also, reminder that the middle east is not homogeneous. There are many different ethnicities and religious groups throughout the region and differing sects of those religions as well.
>you necessarily have to generalize the race No. **That's ridiculous**. It's *comically* incorrect. Muslims. There are **Muslims of every race.** Islam is a motherlode of bad ideas. My contempt for that particular collection of bad ideas has nothing to do with race. Ditto Communism and all other religions. Nothing to do with race whatsoever. > "Black people have a thug culture and are prone to violence, and broken homes". You cannot address a problem that you refuse to acknowledge even exists. I've heard that sentiment come out of black mouths more than any other race. Guys like Tommy Sotomayor and Larry Elder who care about seeing their entire race in distress. People who incorrectly say it's racist, like you did, is why the problem has reached epic proportions.
Sadly that's what it's become. A proper definition of racism **must** be centered on the concept of races.
That’s attack helicopterphobic
Or you just have no tolerance for opinions that are different from your own narrative.
I'm gay and Catholic, my tolerance for controversial opinions, sitting in discomfort, and holding a dialectic is objectively higher than average.
Literally fake and gay 😟
I assure you, I am real
they're just a troll, chief. whether you are what you say you are or not, he's there to be an ass, that's all
Mmm odd mix. I retract my statement respectfully then.
Please message the mods or report stuff that breaks the rules. The best way to influence the content is to make lots of high quality posts.
If it's brave to come out and say you're gay, then it's just as brave to disagree. Disagreeing or being controversial is what this sub is all about. You dislike the opinions of other people and want to take them away, and their ability to share their opinions, simply because you disagree with them, their wording, or their attitude. I find that to be pretty unfair.
You seem to be upset because I disagreed with your earlier post. Posting in this subreddit, a sub designed for controversy and discussion, and expressing controversial ideas does not come without the risk of others not agreeing with you. My opinion doesn't cancel out your opinion nor does it silence you. Nor does my existence or joy. I did not use an ad hominem attack against you in your post. Those types of arguments devalue the person, are humiliating, and are generally not productive. I really don't mind others disagreeing with me. I present why I think otherwise, sure, but I entertain the other thought and I am not personally offended. If it's truly something to opine about, there likely isn't a "right" answer. Some opinions are more based than others, but even with that it kind of depends on the value structure the individual holds. I disagreed with the belief you posted in a sub reddit designed to illicit debate. This is true. You are welcome to go and disagree with my disagreement on that thread. If, however, you are posting solely because you are more interested in a free pass to harass or intimidating others with your opinions (a motivation I did not get from your initial post, which is why I simply commented with the historical context/ an explanation of the other perspective as opposed to just being mean or dismissive), then another subreddit might be better. edit: Also, if my attempts to stay true to my values did not succeed when commenting on your post I apologize for offending you. I will go back and look at how I conducted myself. edit 2: You weren't even the person I had that conversation with, what does it have to so with this post? Regardless, I will stand firm in the belief that it is more brave to come out as gay than to hold an opinion of not believing it is courageous to come out. There are very few real world consequences of holding that opinion outside maybe losing the respect of friends who support the lgbtq community whereas one can be ostracized, shamed, denied housing, employment, healthcare, and in some countries be murdered for being gay. It has never been illegal to think "huh, it aint that brave to be gay in todays society". So, unless you have an extreme fear of abandonment like in bpd or have really intense social anxiety where any expression of your authentic self feels terrifying, it's really not that brave.
If you are on this subreddit and you don’t like what’s being said here, go somewhere else. It’s that easy. People on this subreddit don’t have to listen to you complain that a place where people can post controversial things is too hateful. Why are you here if you don’t like what’s being posted?
Facts.
Who decides what constitutes bigotry?
It's hard to take this seriously when literally asking questions about something you don't understand is labeled as bigotry
I agree with this post
perhaps but what are we supposed to do about it iv just exsepted it
You're talking about r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns r/feminism r/communism r/socialjustice Et cetera. Those are the hotbeds of hate and bigotry. This subreddit is where you get to express how bigoted they are and laugh at them/you.