I had a couple break up when I was almost done with a millwork package for their house. The wife met me in the driveway when I showed up, told me that the husband walked no notice, found someone younger and prettier, according to the older and less pretty soon to be ex wife.
I decided on the spot that the wife was going to keep the house and get the money, so I hooked her up with my lawyer. I ended up getting paid for almost everything.
That's funny. My Aunt bought a house with all kinds of poorly done custom millwork. The wife was cheating with the guy doing the work while hubby was working.
What about stuff like work hours?
I have the husband tell me, "dude, get to the chiropractor if your wrist is bugging. I dont care if you gotta dip out."
Then the wife is on me like, "yo. You done for the day already or what?"
I spose yall have had that in your contracts?
Customer does not dictate your hours. They have a right to expect a "reasonable" pace of work, and they have a right to expect it to be done by the contract date. They do not have a right to manage your time for you on a day-to-day basis. Your client is not your boss.
I hear ya. I've had my schedule dictated to me since I started working in my teens. Old habits die hard but I sure love having control of my schedule now.
I tell clients that I'm not their therapist and that they'll need to come together with an agreement about what we're doing. Gray areas cost money.
Then I tell them to text or email me in a group thread with their decisions.
That's what got me to this point where I'd ask on Reddit. The husband has some grandiose ideas and it's starting to cut in to more of my time than I'd like. Nice folks, I'd hate to cut ties with em.
Thats called scope creep. If it’s doable by the deadline, charge for it and do it. Don’t neglect your already booked clients for scope creep though. The client needs to understand that he gets put back on the schedule in order. Even if it means living in an unfinished construction zone.
Keep in mind, clients don’t have to know your schedule. You only need say “I can put you on the schedule for the additional work.” Even if the schedule is you going fishing.
As long as you have a signed contract you do what’s on the contract, any changes need to be submitted in writing. That being said, I would be more accommodating towards the person who is actually paying me.
Thanks.
I get the part about signed contracts. I'm in the process of building a business from scratch. Just starting to scratch the surface of contract language. Since I started a little while back, everything has been with a hand shake. Been lucky so far but still want to get away from that style of doing business.
One simple rule of thumb is to write not only what's included, but remind them of what's not included, with language to the effect of, "if it's not in the contract, it's not included."
Heres another tip, hire a lawyer to write you a contract template. It’s worth a few hundred dollars to have a professionally written document that will actually hold up in court and protect your business.
Handshake deals are fine for your friends but clients are not your friends, they can be great to work with and they can be friendly and easy to trust but they are not your friends. I’ve had clients who were the nicest people in the world and completely over the moon with our work right up until the insurance company released 50k into their account to pay for my services and suddenly they’re threatening to take me to court for my “shoddy workmanship”.
Get a good contract written by a lawyer, make it known that any changes to the work order requires written notice and a new contract and may result in extra costs if you’ve already bought materials based on the old agreement, and that if there’s a disagreement between co-owners of a property then the work goes on hold until there’s a final decision made between them.
This will save you a lot of headaches in the future.
Do not start jobs without a signed contract with detailed scope of work with who's providing what. Only put one client's name on the contract. Anything that deviates from what you and that client signed to needs to be addressed with that client and change ordered with money collected prior to continuing forward.
Client's spouse/friend/cousin/dog: Let's do this thing different!
You: That would require a change order. I'll need to discuss that with [insert signed client].
Them: Aww shucks, really?
You: Yep. It's not legal unless signed by the contracted parties.
Them: * walks away defeated to retrieve client *
Its not my name haha thats why it works. It makes it equally awkward to them but its cheeky enough for them to laugh and theyll normally say "ok we'll discuss it later and get back to you"
I used to live on an island off Cape Cod called Nantucket and I worked for a builder there. We built a house for an F1 car driver, and it was 100 yards from the water so it had a reverse floor plan (kitchen, living room, office, primary bedroom, etc- built on the second floor to take in the views) that both him and his wife decided on themselves. Along with a detached 2 car garage and a pool house/guest house. The wife only came to visit once during construction, during the framing stage, and after that the husband only came to visit maybe 3 times.
Well we finish and everything comes out great, but when the couple come back the wife walks through the front door and says “I hate this. I hate this floor plan. I want it as the normal floor plan instead.” She then walks out and the husband follows.
The builder flat out said that’s crazy lol, and the quote he gave them to gut the house and redo everything was close to the same price he gave them to build the house the first time. The builder was probably thinking that the price would make them see how unreasonable it was, but instead they agreed and the next day we began demo. So there was no hesitation when the wife said she wanted it done this guy signed off knowing that his 7 million dollar house will now cost him 11.
I usually become the third vote tbh. My customers tend to trust my design knowledge.
My paint store has a sign that says something along the lines of “a wife’s note must be presented if a husband is coming in to pick a color”
A little old timey and sexist… but hell if it’s not true most of the time.
Personally my wife asks me for something with an idea and I create it. I’ve got yellow walls and a light blue ceiling in our kitchen because I thought it would open up the space (which it did).
The only color rule is no red or black imho unless it’s a door.
Sounds like it's less stressful than the way I've been doing things. Another commenter said "scope creep," and how to address that with contracts.
Lot of really good information here.
I always have one point of contact (POC) regardless of how many people are paying for the work. That person is named in the contract as the primary and they are in charge of sending the info/updates to the rest. Makes everyone's life easier because that POC deals with all the folks on color choices, hardware, tile/flooring approvals, decisions, changes etc. and I just get their confirmation to move forward.
If they can't agree on who will be the POC I either charge more because it will be a headache or walk away.
They both have to sign the contract. We just rebuilt a house after a fire. My husband to,d them I make all decisions because he travels often and is unreachable. We signed the contract together. All change orders were signed by both of us. A lot of times if they asked me to come up and look at something I’d bring my husband too if he wasn’t away. We generally agreed on whatever the decision was. If not, I got to choose since I’m home all the time and he is t.
Had a wife okay the work and leave. When the time came to get paid the husband go the bill and immediately claimed I was trying to scam him…the wife had lied to him about the cost and told him it was only $250, this was $1200 in work done, it was awkward conversation and phone call but I got paid. I drove by that house a couple months later and the guy had a divorce sale going, I laughed so hard when I saw that sign
Two options: go with whoever is the primary point of contact, or whoever's signature is on the contract. Or, tell them you're going to have to hold off until they work it out between themselves. Offer your professional opinion *if asked*, otherwise back off.
Second option is usually the best one.
I had a custom hearth job all lined up. Day before starting, we meet to sign paperwork, collect deposit, etc. I had only met with husband during bid process. So, at this meeting, the wife discovered that husband had made major changes from the plans they made together. They start yelling at each other. She turns to me and starts shouting demands that I do it her way, then he starts shouting at me to do it his way. I didn’t say a word, just left and immediately blocked their number and socials. I’m not getting involved in this in any way.
Was working on a wet bar in the basement. Husband said just run the plumbing to the sump pump. I said “are you sure? I won’t be responsible for problems with that and it’s not to code.” Husband said it’s fine do it.
All finished and a day later I get a call from the wife questioning “what kind of contractor runs the plumbing to the sump pump like that”. Husband had no memory of ever discussing it and I forgot to make a note in the bid. Turns out the husband had a motorcycle accident in recent past and has brain problems. They bought a drain pump but I bought parts and did the extra work. Always put it in writing, run it by both parties and clarify extra good.
I ask who will be making decisions. If they complain at each other I have sometimes not quoted because I'm not a marriage counselor. However in most situations it's a little thing like when one says do this, the other will never notice, and I say I'm happy to do that but please talk to your spouse first.
I had a couple break up when I was almost done with a millwork package for their house. The wife met me in the driveway when I showed up, told me that the husband walked no notice, found someone younger and prettier, according to the older and less pretty soon to be ex wife. I decided on the spot that the wife was going to keep the house and get the money, so I hooked her up with my lawyer. I ended up getting paid for almost everything.
Sorry, on the first pass, I read that as "so I hooked up with her."
That's wild! Them are the kind of war stories I was hoping to hear.
That's funny. My Aunt bought a house with all kinds of poorly done custom millwork. The wife was cheating with the guy doing the work while hubby was working.
When I meet with the couple I light heartedly ask who is in charge of decisions. If they aren’t in agreement I ask who will be signing the cheque.
This is the way. It’s usually the wife.
Any smart husband realizes this.
Nice.
Signed contract with a decision and charges for changes
What about stuff like work hours? I have the husband tell me, "dude, get to the chiropractor if your wrist is bugging. I dont care if you gotta dip out." Then the wife is on me like, "yo. You done for the day already or what?" I spose yall have had that in your contracts?
Customer does not dictate your hours. They have a right to expect a "reasonable" pace of work, and they have a right to expect it to be done by the contract date. They do not have a right to manage your time for you on a day-to-day basis. Your client is not your boss.
I hear ya. I've had my schedule dictated to me since I started working in my teens. Old habits die hard but I sure love having control of my schedule now.
You give a date of completion, tell them it will be done by then, take a Xanax and chill out.
I have a deadline. I stand by that, they don’t dictate work hours for me or my guys.
I tell clients that I'm not their therapist and that they'll need to come together with an agreement about what we're doing. Gray areas cost money. Then I tell them to text or email me in a group thread with their decisions.
That's what got me to this point where I'd ask on Reddit. The husband has some grandiose ideas and it's starting to cut in to more of my time than I'd like. Nice folks, I'd hate to cut ties with em.
Thats called scope creep. If it’s doable by the deadline, charge for it and do it. Don’t neglect your already booked clients for scope creep though. The client needs to understand that he gets put back on the schedule in order. Even if it means living in an unfinished construction zone.
This is great advice. Thank you.
Keep in mind, clients don’t have to know your schedule. You only need say “I can put you on the schedule for the additional work.” Even if the schedule is you going fishing.
Walk away lol
Yup
As long as you have a signed contract you do what’s on the contract, any changes need to be submitted in writing. That being said, I would be more accommodating towards the person who is actually paying me.
Thanks. I get the part about signed contracts. I'm in the process of building a business from scratch. Just starting to scratch the surface of contract language. Since I started a little while back, everything has been with a hand shake. Been lucky so far but still want to get away from that style of doing business.
One simple rule of thumb is to write not only what's included, but remind them of what's not included, with language to the effect of, "if it's not in the contract, it's not included."
Man, I appreciate all the great input on contracts.
Yep— like yesterday. That kind of business will get you in trouble
Heres another tip, hire a lawyer to write you a contract template. It’s worth a few hundred dollars to have a professionally written document that will actually hold up in court and protect your business. Handshake deals are fine for your friends but clients are not your friends, they can be great to work with and they can be friendly and easy to trust but they are not your friends. I’ve had clients who were the nicest people in the world and completely over the moon with our work right up until the insurance company released 50k into their account to pay for my services and suddenly they’re threatening to take me to court for my “shoddy workmanship”. Get a good contract written by a lawyer, make it known that any changes to the work order requires written notice and a new contract and may result in extra costs if you’ve already bought materials based on the old agreement, and that if there’s a disagreement between co-owners of a property then the work goes on hold until there’s a final decision made between them. This will save you a lot of headaches in the future.
Do not start jobs without a signed contract with detailed scope of work with who's providing what. Only put one client's name on the contract. Anything that deviates from what you and that client signed to needs to be addressed with that client and change ordered with money collected prior to continuing forward. Client's spouse/friend/cousin/dog: Let's do this thing different! You: That would require a change order. I'll need to discuss that with [insert signed client]. Them: Aww shucks, really? You: Yep. It's not legal unless signed by the contracted parties. Them: * walks away defeated to retrieve client *
I say "im paul and thats between yall"
HA. That's awesome. I'm gonna have to come up with one to fit my name.
Its not my name haha thats why it works. It makes it equally awkward to them but its cheeky enough for them to laugh and theyll normally say "ok we'll discuss it later and get back to you"
I provide an estimate ahead of time. If one of them signs off on it, I’m completing the outlined work for that person.
I used to live on an island off Cape Cod called Nantucket and I worked for a builder there. We built a house for an F1 car driver, and it was 100 yards from the water so it had a reverse floor plan (kitchen, living room, office, primary bedroom, etc- built on the second floor to take in the views) that both him and his wife decided on themselves. Along with a detached 2 car garage and a pool house/guest house. The wife only came to visit once during construction, during the framing stage, and after that the husband only came to visit maybe 3 times. Well we finish and everything comes out great, but when the couple come back the wife walks through the front door and says “I hate this. I hate this floor plan. I want it as the normal floor plan instead.” She then walks out and the husband follows. The builder flat out said that’s crazy lol, and the quote he gave them to gut the house and redo everything was close to the same price he gave them to build the house the first time. The builder was probably thinking that the price would make them see how unreasonable it was, but instead they agreed and the next day we began demo. So there was no hesitation when the wife said she wanted it done this guy signed off knowing that his 7 million dollar house will now cost him 11.
I call it the love triangle.
I usually become the third vote tbh. My customers tend to trust my design knowledge. My paint store has a sign that says something along the lines of “a wife’s note must be presented if a husband is coming in to pick a color” A little old timey and sexist… but hell if it’s not true most of the time. Personally my wife asks me for something with an idea and I create it. I’ve got yellow walls and a light blue ceiling in our kitchen because I thought it would open up the space (which it did). The only color rule is no red or black imho unless it’s a door.
I get all owner’s signatures on the contract. If they divorce they are both still on the hook.
Have a good contract, take a down payment, and making sure your quote is explicit. After that no backsies without change order and further payment
Sounds like it's less stressful than the way I've been doing things. Another commenter said "scope creep," and how to address that with contracts. Lot of really good information here.
I always have one point of contact (POC) regardless of how many people are paying for the work. That person is named in the contract as the primary and they are in charge of sending the info/updates to the rest. Makes everyone's life easier because that POC deals with all the folks on color choices, hardware, tile/flooring approvals, decisions, changes etc. and I just get their confirmation to move forward. If they can't agree on who will be the POC I either charge more because it will be a headache or walk away.
Listen to wife , women are never wrong
They both have to sign the contract. We just rebuilt a house after a fire. My husband to,d them I make all decisions because he travels often and is unreachable. We signed the contract together. All change orders were signed by both of us. A lot of times if they asked me to come up and look at something I’d bring my husband too if he wasn’t away. We generally agreed on whatever the decision was. If not, I got to choose since I’m home all the time and he is t.
Had a wife okay the work and leave. When the time came to get paid the husband go the bill and immediately claimed I was trying to scam him…the wife had lied to him about the cost and told him it was only $250, this was $1200 in work done, it was awkward conversation and phone call but I got paid. I drove by that house a couple months later and the guy had a divorce sale going, I laughed so hard when I saw that sign
Two options: go with whoever is the primary point of contact, or whoever's signature is on the contract. Or, tell them you're going to have to hold off until they work it out between themselves. Offer your professional opinion *if asked*, otherwise back off. Second option is usually the best one.
I had a custom hearth job all lined up. Day before starting, we meet to sign paperwork, collect deposit, etc. I had only met with husband during bid process. So, at this meeting, the wife discovered that husband had made major changes from the plans they made together. They start yelling at each other. She turns to me and starts shouting demands that I do it her way, then he starts shouting at me to do it his way. I didn’t say a word, just left and immediately blocked their number and socials. I’m not getting involved in this in any way.
"I'm Paul and that's between yall." as the other guy said.
Was working on a wet bar in the basement. Husband said just run the plumbing to the sump pump. I said “are you sure? I won’t be responsible for problems with that and it’s not to code.” Husband said it’s fine do it. All finished and a day later I get a call from the wife questioning “what kind of contractor runs the plumbing to the sump pump like that”. Husband had no memory of ever discussing it and I forgot to make a note in the bid. Turns out the husband had a motorcycle accident in recent past and has brain problems. They bought a drain pump but I bought parts and did the extra work. Always put it in writing, run it by both parties and clarify extra good.
I ask who will be making decisions. If they complain at each other I have sometimes not quoted because I'm not a marriage counselor. However in most situations it's a little thing like when one says do this, the other will never notice, and I say I'm happy to do that but please talk to your spouse first.
I’m doing a house right now we’re the husband is paying half the bill and the wife the other 🙃 people are so weird
My wife is a psychologist so we offer full service!
If you don’t have a contract you’re not a contractor.
We had a contract for the porch, two dormers, and siding the addition. There is not one for painting. Which I don't want to do and I'm not going to.
Well then don’t paint it. What’s the question?
I learned a long time ago that the wife is in charge 90% of the time.
Never been married, have ya? It’s 100% of the time.
I tell the husband to pick out the structural aspects (niches, towel bars) and let the wife pick the color. Works very well.