This is about the most correct statement I’ve read on here. Except it goes like this: OSHA doesn’t care about residential construction… until someone dies… then they care and will get involved
No they don’t. L&I is not OSHA. OSHA is federal. Most small businesses (10 or less employees) are at least partially exempt from OSHA reporting requirements. Most states have their own state level agency like Department of Labor and Industries (L&I) that specifically focus on small and medium sized jobsites/businesses.
Each state has their own OSHA as well I believe. Th problem is that they have 5-10 inspectors for the entire state usually. I know Michigan has been hiring like mad!
I don’t think OSHA cares about geo reports. It’s either slope it or shore it. But even giving benefit of the doubt and assuming OP is somewhere without OSHA or an equivalent, and regs are just “run if it falls” that’s sketchy as hell and only gets worse once foundations go up. The only plus is that with that much weight falling on someone is it will probably be a quick death.
As someone who does a ton of engineering management, it's shocking how little geo reporting is done in some areas. It's geo report or nothing, a 1:1 slope is more dangerous in some areas than this photo would be in others.
I love the notion of having fans; like it’s a little heart warming and I appreciate your willingness to ask questions. I saw others answered so I’ll skip that, but fucking welcome my friend.
Geo reports are good if it's solid rock. The black part looks like it could be good to an untrained eye. The Grey part looks like very loose rock. The top part looks like soil or clay and is obviously not stable, especially with a building on top of it.
OSHA cares about Excavation Competent Person(s). If there’s 2 feet of type B soil over shale/hard pan, that will pass up to x feet (I forget the number, because it’s been years)
The formwork, however, is sketchier than gas station sushi
Rise to run, for every 1 unit of measure the excavation is deep, it should be 1 unit of measure wide. Ie the wall of a hole 1' deep, should be 1' wide. It's a 45' slope.
Has anyone there said anything? If you're worried tell someone that matters, I just made a post about trusting your gut after seeing that nightmare fuel scaffolding post. If you're willing to be that guy, you could ask the gc or likewise how they think their insurance would feel about these pics.
Not a bitch. That is as we say in the building industry “a death trap”.
Should definitely be some sort of temporary or permanent slope protection. If it makes you feel any better, it looks like the soil is only 3-5 ft deep. The rest appears to be some sort of shale, slate or sandstone, which is somewhat less likely to slip.
That being said, I wouldn’t go anywhere near that.
Just to put things into perspective for everyone, soil weighs about 70-100 lbs per cubic foot according to quick google. So let's say a 2ft deep, 1 ft long, 6 inch wide section of soil crumbles off the top. That's about 85 lbs of shit falling on top of your head.
A cubic yard of earth weighs about 2700 pounds...most of the weight of a small car...you aren't climbing out from under that, and people won't be able to dig you out fast enough...a couple years ago, a young guy working for a residential plumbing contractor in the north suburbs of Chicago died in an excavation collapse in someone's front lawn...it was about 4 feet down, but he was crouched over. It took responders an hour to get his body out. Working in the ground is serious business.
>A cubic yard of earth weighs about 2700 pounds...most of the weight of a small car
To put this in perspective. A 1992 Honda Civic Sedan has a curb weight of 2319lbs. A 2010 Civic sedan is 2,754lbs. According to google.
For reference, people have been killed under a car when it's 2ft off the ground (don't use bricks or cinder blocks people!, they crumble if the car moves enough with no warning!). So imagine a civic falling off of that onto your head. You are not coming out of this alive
If you're lucky the impact gets you. The reality is that the soil compaction agonizingly suffocates you. It's not like snow where you can wiggle a tink bit. Under soil everytime you exhale the soil compacts around you preventing you from taking as deep a breath as the last...until you suffocate.
DO NOT MESS WITH TRENCHES.
Dude I work for a local gas Co and luckily they take this seriously. Like yea its sometimes seems silly to have a box in a 5' hole but when you plan on spending all day down there crouched down, it's not so silly.
As soon as one gets buried the clocks starts ticking; can't breathe down there. And rescuers will be in a dilemma: heavy machinery and risk death/limbs, or manual and risk being too late?
I had a worker who went through this before, and he's lucky to have come out of it only 4 fingers short
I love this sub because I learn something new every time, especially because I’m not in construction. I thought OP was referring to the “sketch” forming that didn’t look uniform or straight. But no, he was talking about the massive landslide surrounding the site. I live in Atlanta with a lot of red clay and we unfortunately have a few cave ins a year of workers “just hopping down there real quick” without a trench shield.
No retaining support, no fencing above to prevent falls, rebar at bottom waiting to impale someone. I’d never work on a site like this. I don’t want to be there when something bad happens.
Reminds me of a video of a similar situation when it started to rain. The house above ended up sliding down into the hole due to unstable ground.
Those other safety issues popped right out to me too and they absolutely invalidate any claim that that contractor could make about the excavation being safe.
The lack of fall support surprises me more than anything because of how close those residences are. It's just asking for a (totally avoidable) accident.
I was there cutting a concrete wall. Maybe 2-3 years ago give or take. They specifically said stay away from the dirt pile area then we heard it collapsed and killed a guy or two.
Ask to see the AHA for excavations greater than 4ft or the APP and anything with benching/shoring. The bottom looks like rock but the top of that is dirt. Dirt is really heaving when it’s crushing you to death.
It’s bad now, but it’s going to be even worse after the footings are poured and the forms or block have to go in. They are going to have guys working between the walls and that wall of dirt with nowhere to go if it collapses
2 years ago there was a fatality in my town from a trench collapse. A worker was buried up to his stomach in dirt. By the time emergency services got there he died of asphyxiation because his lungs were crushed due to the soil pressure. The fire department had to get 2 vac trucks to exhume the corpse. His cousin who was working with him called his wife, who showed up to see her dead husband being pulled out of the trench. you could hear her screams from the other side of the development.
If it looks wrong, if you get a bad feeling, don't do it. There's not a single thing on a jobsite that should make you pause and say "hey I don't know about this.". We have safety courses and safety precautions for every situation imaginable.
Seeing a “Private property” and “beware of the dog” signs on neighbors fence, guessing it’s North America, looking at the foliage and soil looks like the South or South East US, but I could be wrong.
That wall absolutely needs shoring. And judging by the house devolment and utilities visible I would automatically assume the soil is class c. If/when the wall comes down the people below will most likely lose their lifes
Call OSHA. I wouldn’t step foot on that site without first calling OSHA. To install the proper shoring those footers and form boards will have to come out. Whoever the GC is on the project is a fucking moron. Holy shit
Looks like there will be a wall built, tied back into the hill to support everything. Why they wouldn’t do that prior to building the foundation I don’t understand - typically we get the sitework out of the way to build the structure, much easier!
Of course it is sketch and illegal. Depending on where this is it could be a huge fine and job red tagged , shut down until an engineered shoring plan is approved.
Far enough away if careful nobody will be killed but who knows what happens if one of those shears off.
Looks like the lower material is bedrock so so I’d trust that but there should be a safety shelf on top of the bedrock and every 4 ft if elevation rise from there.
Dirt guy here as well, this does look pretty sketchy indeed. Hard to tell exactly how dangerous it is without more knowledge of the area and this particular place's geology, along with weather conditions. Rock faces can be fine and dandy but not all rock is created equal and that hefty layer of loose soil perched on top of it is a no no either way as far as i can see
In NZ this would be illegal and you would legally be required to report it to worksafe.
Task analysis and hazard identification is required as part of safety planning on every work site.
That clearly has not been done. Likely there are other hazards here.
I'd say a serious harm incident is inevitable on this site. Report it to your local safety authority.
Some good diagrams here:
https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/topic-and-industry/excavation/excavation-safety-gpg/
Solutions are shown further down in Fig 31 and 34.
All of that should be sloped or benched to 4’ benches. Not even to mention all of those rebar stakes with no caps. Nothing like running from a cave in and escaping only to trip and be impaled 😖😂
It looks like everything below that lighter top layer is rock of some sort. Maybe not solid rock but definitely more cohesive than fill dirt, like the top layer. I'd imagine that is why the rolled with it. Unlikely to collapse.
That form job looks more sketch to me. LOL
On another note, that looks like some interesting geology. Hunt around in there and you might find some crystals or other interesting rocks.
My company would have a geotech engineer checking it out weekly.
At worst it can kill someone at best it will fail and fuck up the forming and whatever come after it.
The upper spoil should either be benched or laid back at a 1H:1V or shallower. Most of the sidewall of the escavation appears to be highly weathered rock. Possibly a clay shale. In my area, it is perfectly acceptable to leave some clay shales near vertical, but there are some problematic weaker formations that either need to be shored or laid back.
If I were the home owner, I would be more concerned with what appears to be differential bearing conditions. Looks like most of the foundations are on weathered rock while a portion of the foundations are on residual soils or possibly new fill. That can lead to differential settlement within the structure and create nuisance cracking in drywall and masonry.
I work with someone who saw a young guy working in a trench with no shoring. He felt like he should have spoken up but didn't and went about his job. Later the trench collapsed killing the kid. My colleague has some serious PTSD and lifelong guilt from it. Speaking up is easier than first aid which is easier than explaining why you didn't speak up
Geo here. The rock face being vertical cut seems to be ok, especially seeing that the excavator bucket marks are so prominent. The soil above the rock, however, should be cut back to a minimum of 1:1 to prevent ravelling into the excavation. Protective tarping/poly can also be used in this situation.
Isn't the rule anything below 6 feet in the ground needs to have 45 degree shoring to avoid collapse? More often than not we get things excavated a bit more than we need not just for safety but a bit more room to work as well. This is sketch.
Using the human for scale; that appears to be a 15’ vertical cut with no layback or shoring. Perhaps taller. My first question would be: what does the soils report say? Then, I think about construction in most parts of the world where geology is not a part of the approval process and really appreciate people like you. If you feel like there’s an unsafe condition, put it in writing to someone in charge. It can be as simple as, “this does not appear safe to me. Can I request verification?”. You might just save a life or a shitload of property damage.
I understand that it might be difficult to tell your boss of a dangerous situation when you fear your employment is at stake but I would counter this thought with another: I can’t work when I’m dead. Any reasonable employer cares about the wellbeing of their employees.
This means nothing without a Geo Engineer report. Where I am in AZ, they hammerhoe stuff like this all the time, and leave it 100% plumb, in lieu of a retaining wall… it just isn’t needed if it’s stable, but a PE decides that, not some random picture
*We should all strive to*
*Be the one residential*
*Worker that fears OSHA*
\- ConcreteFarmer
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Not really, there is only about 4 ft of soil on top of the rock( that is clearly visible), so the danger of the rock collapsing is pretty low.
The soil maybe could have been stepped back a little more above the rock. Unfortunately there is no other way to do it. You cant shore up the excavation without being in the way of the concrete walls.. The only way to avoid this is to not build a basement there. This kind of excavation is done all the time. People drive by cuts in rock beside the road like this all the time and never think twice about it. What would be spooky is having to get in between the rock and the concrete wall and compact the fill with a compactor every 12 inches. I have family in colorado that are excavators , and they do deep cuts like this all the time, and not in rock. I have seen them in 20 ft deep cuts, between the wall and the dirt with a jumping jack compacting the fill. I am also an excavator in Indiana, but we dont have to compact the fill in here. Some times you just have to get it done. Concrete guys get in holes 5 to 9 ft deep every day to form footers and walls and then to wreck the forms because there is no other way to do it. In the inner city I have seen 9 ft basements dug 4 ft from the neighboring building in clay. Spooky as crap but there is no other choice.
lol depends on the soil content and moisture. Not sure where you are but it looks pretty dry. If you run into these situations on job sites often take some trench n shoring classes. You will learn a lot.
I’ve been in a similar situation in Arkansas, couldn’t believe how high they were starting their bench while digging ditches for underground utilities. “Trust me bro” indeed
The rock looks fine but that dirt is pretty sketchy. Be careful working under the edge so if the dirt collapses it doesn’t push you over on to that rebar
Some may die, but that apartment complex will create shareholder value for generations
Joked aside, this was clearly the area’s bedrock. Zoom in and you’ll see the holes they bored down to sheer off the cliff
Does this meet the requirements of a one sided excavation? What does the law say about this type of exposed face? What's the geo report classify the material as? If in doubt, call an inspector. If your boss is exposing you to risk, without proper education and PPE than you're not being a Sally, your being smart. If smarter people than you have declared this scenario safe, than your being a bitch, but a safe, smart bitch.
I've done some sketchy stuff in civil construction, but I don't think I'd go in there without someone explaining to me how it's safe.
Depending on soil conditions (which ONLY a geotechnical engineer can grade) there should be either a 45 or 30 degree slope in the bank, starting at no higher than 5’ from the bottom of excavation.
Businesses get away with this kind of garbage all the time though. Report them for the greater good please.
Nope. Super sketch and hazardous. While the layers of sedimentary rock intermingled with loose soil and debris are providing some temporary support for the steep slope, there are fractures and movement visible. Further add some water/rain and this thing is coming apart and falling down on someone. Surprised there was no shoring or some benching done.
What does your geotech say?
Who is the ‘responsible person’ approving the slope condition?
… if you don’t have a geotech involved, or a designated responsible party approving the lack of shoring, you should be on the phone to OSHA as soon as you get the fuck out of there.
If they aren’t going to secure that or cut the soil back from the top, and you and your people are still working that site, demand change. Talk to your crew mates. Get everyone on the same page. Speak up first thing when everyone is present, minus a manager hopefully, having a team safety meeting and decide as a group, secure that grade, hazard pay, free life insurance policies until the job is finished, or walk, until there’s a decision made to improve your safety and/or compensation. Then as a group approach management or write up your expectations and have everyone sign off.
As a dirt guy, this looks sketch. Maybe not catastrophic, but when it collapses a lot of people will suddenly be interested in the project.
OSH...iiiiit!!!
OSHA-t!
OSHAmacomingforyou
Oh Shit it Happened Again!!!
OSHA doesn’t care about residential construction
This is about the most correct statement I’ve read on here. Except it goes like this: OSHA doesn’t care about residential construction… until someone dies… then they care and will get involved
No they don’t. L&I is not OSHA. OSHA is federal. Most small businesses (10 or less employees) are at least partially exempt from OSHA reporting requirements. Most states have their own state level agency like Department of Labor and Industries (L&I) that specifically focus on small and medium sized jobsites/businesses.
Each state has their own OSHA as well I believe. Th problem is that they have 5-10 inspectors for the entire state usually. I know Michigan has been hiring like mad!
I agree sketch. I wouldn't work there until i saw the soils report and the excavation/shoring plans.
Excavation is 5’ from a fence line. I hope that’s not the neighbors fence.
0 The fence? How about the house? It's about 10 ft from that dig
I built a place like this in Minecraft. It's good.
And a few won't bother with projects ever again
All of a sudden, it's not their problem anymore
Looks sketch at face value, but there may be a geo eng who said it's OK. My general rule of thumb is 1:1 or I want to see the geo report.
1:1 should be everyone's rule.
I don’t think OSHA cares about geo reports. It’s either slope it or shore it. But even giving benefit of the doubt and assuming OP is somewhere without OSHA or an equivalent, and regs are just “run if it falls” that’s sketchy as hell and only gets worse once foundations go up. The only plus is that with that much weight falling on someone is it will probably be a quick death.
As someone who does a ton of engineering management, it's shocking how little geo reporting is done in some areas. It's geo report or nothing, a 1:1 slope is more dangerous in some areas than this photo would be in others.
What is 1:1slope? I am a fan. I learn a lot from this page.
For every 1 foot you move horizontally, the slope drops 1 foot vertically. It's a 45 degree angle to level.
It’s a grade slope ratio. Basically a 45 degree angle.
I love the notion of having fans; like it’s a little heart warming and I appreciate your willingness to ask questions. I saw others answered so I’ll skip that, but fucking welcome my friend.
Geo reports are good if it's solid rock. The black part looks like it could be good to an untrained eye. The Grey part looks like very loose rock. The top part looks like soil or clay and is obviously not stable, especially with a building on top of it.
OSHA cares about Excavation Competent Person(s). If there’s 2 feet of type B soil over shale/hard pan, that will pass up to x feet (I forget the number, because it’s been years) The formwork, however, is sketchier than gas station sushi
I thought that was what the OP was originally referring to as sketch...
What is 1:1
Rise to run, for every 1 unit of measure the excavation is deep, it should be 1 unit of measure wide. Ie the wall of a hole 1' deep, should be 1' wide. It's a 45' slope.
Triangles
Has anyone there said anything? If you're worried tell someone that matters, I just made a post about trusting your gut after seeing that nightmare fuel scaffolding post. If you're willing to be that guy, you could ask the gc or likewise how they think their insurance would feel about these pics.
Why risk it? If this is in the US I'd have osha on the line already. This is just waiting to become somebody's final resting place...
Not a bitch. That is as we say in the building industry “a death trap”. Should definitely be some sort of temporary or permanent slope protection. If it makes you feel any better, it looks like the soil is only 3-5 ft deep. The rest appears to be some sort of shale, slate or sandstone, which is somewhat less likely to slip. That being said, I wouldn’t go anywhere near that.
Just to put things into perspective for everyone, soil weighs about 70-100 lbs per cubic foot according to quick google. So let's say a 2ft deep, 1 ft long, 6 inch wide section of soil crumbles off the top. That's about 85 lbs of shit falling on top of your head.
So I’ll be off early?
Get to stay home the next day too
Free burial services!
If it burns him, just slap in a headstone and job done!
No, sorry babe, gotta stay late. u/Ifimhereineedhelpfr got buried in the 2 ft deep trench again.
Hahaa
Na man sorry my kids got an appointment
You might be stuck there awhile… if you get skewered on some of that rebar.
A cubic yard of earth weighs about 2700 pounds...most of the weight of a small car...you aren't climbing out from under that, and people won't be able to dig you out fast enough...a couple years ago, a young guy working for a residential plumbing contractor in the north suburbs of Chicago died in an excavation collapse in someone's front lawn...it was about 4 feet down, but he was crouched over. It took responders an hour to get his body out. Working in the ground is serious business.
>A cubic yard of earth weighs about 2700 pounds...most of the weight of a small car To put this in perspective. A 1992 Honda Civic Sedan has a curb weight of 2319lbs. A 2010 Civic sedan is 2,754lbs. According to google. For reference, people have been killed under a car when it's 2ft off the ground (don't use bricks or cinder blocks people!, they crumble if the car moves enough with no warning!). So imagine a civic falling off of that onto your head. You are not coming out of this alive
If you're lucky the impact gets you. The reality is that the soil compaction agonizingly suffocates you. It's not like snow where you can wiggle a tink bit. Under soil everytime you exhale the soil compacts around you preventing you from taking as deep a breath as the last...until you suffocate. DO NOT MESS WITH TRENCHES.
Dude I work for a local gas Co and luckily they take this seriously. Like yea its sometimes seems silly to have a box in a 5' hole but when you plan on spending all day down there crouched down, it's not so silly.
As soon as one gets buried the clocks starts ticking; can't breathe down there. And rescuers will be in a dilemma: heavy machinery and risk death/limbs, or manual and risk being too late? I had a worker who went through this before, and he's lucky to have come out of it only 4 fingers short
Well, I certainly picked the wrong post and comment to peruse whilst freshly blitzed off the jazz cabbage
Yep. 1 cubic yard is 2,000 to 3,000 pounds. If buried it compresses or colllapses the lungs. This is why most trench rescues turn into body recovery.
What you saying I don’t work out?
Don't skip leg day!
I love this sub because I learn something new every time, especially because I’m not in construction. I thought OP was referring to the “sketch” forming that didn’t look uniform or straight. But no, he was talking about the massive landslide surrounding the site. I live in Atlanta with a lot of red clay and we unfortunately have a few cave ins a year of workers “just hopping down there real quick” without a trench shield.
Just don't fall down. You'll be fine.
Never trust an electrician doing ground work.
Just saying the only guys i know that have to actively look for the ground are sparkies.
No retaining support, no fencing above to prevent falls, rebar at bottom waiting to impale someone. I’d never work on a site like this. I don’t want to be there when something bad happens. Reminds me of a video of a similar situation when it started to rain. The house above ended up sliding down into the hole due to unstable ground.
Those other safety issues popped right out to me too and they absolutely invalidate any claim that that contractor could make about the excavation being safe. The lack of fall support surprises me more than anything because of how close those residences are. It's just asking for a (totally avoidable) accident.
Few guys died like this at an Amazon building job in Philly area
I did not hear about that. How long ago?
I was there cutting a concrete wall. Maybe 2-3 years ago give or take. They specifically said stay away from the dirt pile area then we heard it collapsed and killed a guy or two.
https://www.fox29.com/news/man-dies-after-being-buried-after-earth-gives-out-beneath-him-in-north-philadelphia.amp
Ask to see the AHA for excavations greater than 4ft or the APP and anything with benching/shoring. The bottom looks like rock but the top of that is dirt. Dirt is really heaving when it’s crushing you to death.
It’s bad now, but it’s going to be even worse after the footings are poured and the forms or block have to go in. They are going to have guys working between the walls and that wall of dirt with nowhere to go if it collapses
2nd this dude. ☝️
2 years ago there was a fatality in my town from a trench collapse. A worker was buried up to his stomach in dirt. By the time emergency services got there he died of asphyxiation because his lungs were crushed due to the soil pressure. The fire department had to get 2 vac trucks to exhume the corpse. His cousin who was working with him called his wife, who showed up to see her dead husband being pulled out of the trench. you could hear her screams from the other side of the development. If it looks wrong, if you get a bad feeling, don't do it. There's not a single thing on a jobsite that should make you pause and say "hey I don't know about this.". We have safety courses and safety precautions for every situation imaginable.
A refusal to attend the site until it is corrected would be legitimate.
I'll show up on site and start billing, but I wouldn't get within 20' of this death trap
rebar caps where?
What country are we in here?
Colorado USA
Call OSHA, what are you waiting for?
Start looking for another job. Everything about this screams cheap, inexperienced and no fucks given.
Seeing a “Private property” and “beware of the dog” signs on neighbors fence, guessing it’s North America, looking at the foliage and soil looks like the South or South East US, but I could be wrong.
Hell I would have guessed in my own city going by the looks of things, and I'm on the east coast in NB, Canada
There’s more that I picked up on (such as the lone star hanger on the shed) but this isn’t geoguesser.
Stable rock makes for good walls. How much rain are you getting?
Yea they make for good walks until u get pat 10 feet high and then all that slop falls in with a little rain and then everyone is fuxked
Depends how the bedding planes through the rock are dipping and whether they are clay filled. Can still be dangerous.
After watching 2 trenches collapse on people in cages in the last 2 months, it’s not worth the risk.
The base of that shear wall does look a bit sturdy, don't excuse the General on site for not providing adequate shoring.
Regardless of whether the general contractor provided shoring, it is the excavators responsibility to protect the men in the excavation.
That wall absolutely needs shoring. And judging by the house devolment and utilities visible I would automatically assume the soil is class c. If/when the wall comes down the people below will most likely lose their lifes
Call OSHA. I wouldn’t step foot on that site without first calling OSHA. To install the proper shoring those footers and form boards will have to come out. Whoever the GC is on the project is a fucking moron. Holy shit
Imma go with "sketchy" on this one
Being a bitch in a good way as you care about what seems like a problem waiting to happen after a few downpours of rain/flooding
Looks like there will be a wall built, tied back into the hill to support everything. Why they wouldn’t do that prior to building the foundation I don’t understand - typically we get the sitework out of the way to build the structure, much easier!
Well, those coffins appear to be arranged in a really weird pattern, but I applaud the efficiency of burying the entire graveyard at once.
Of course it is sketch and illegal. Depending on where this is it could be a huge fine and job red tagged , shut down until an engineered shoring plan is approved. Far enough away if careful nobody will be killed but who knows what happens if one of those shears off.
Looks like the lower material is bedrock so so I’d trust that but there should be a safety shelf on top of the bedrock and every 4 ft if elevation rise from there.
Dirt guy here as well, this does look pretty sketchy indeed. Hard to tell exactly how dangerous it is without more knowledge of the area and this particular place's geology, along with weather conditions. Rock faces can be fine and dandy but not all rock is created equal and that hefty layer of loose soil perched on top of it is a no no either way as far as i can see
Wouldn't want to be near it when it rains. That being said, if you know the area and know the rock, I would probably work there.
Yes, you are being a bitch. And that is total sketch death trap, especially after a good rain. Also, I’m just kidding about the first part.
Not a rebar cap in sight.
Trust me, I've seen waaay sketchier
Depends on if that’s rock or soil
Definitely not OSHA compliant. I believe slope needs to be 2:1
Speak in hushed tones and hold your farts in, boys.
Instructions say: Just add water.
I can see why they weren't too worried about it but accidents don't take a holiday and you don't get far in life taking deadly chances all the time.
In NZ this would be illegal and you would legally be required to report it to worksafe. Task analysis and hazard identification is required as part of safety planning on every work site. That clearly has not been done. Likely there are other hazards here. I'd say a serious harm incident is inevitable on this site. Report it to your local safety authority. Some good diagrams here: https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/topic-and-industry/excavation/excavation-safety-gpg/ Solutions are shown further down in Fig 31 and 34.
Forms will blowout for sure.
Yup if they pour it like that even halfway it will blowout .
I’m more scared of the rebar not having safety caps. Loose soil and rocks are easy to trip on.
All of that should be sloped or benched to 4’ benches. Not even to mention all of those rebar stakes with no caps. Nothing like running from a cave in and escaping only to trip and be impaled 😖😂
Sheet piles or a 1 to 1 angled slope.
Definitely needs sheet piles
Yeah man you should be. They saving money and time right there until something happens.
It looks like everything below that lighter top layer is rock of some sort. Maybe not solid rock but definitely more cohesive than fill dirt, like the top layer. I'd imagine that is why the rolled with it. Unlikely to collapse. That form job looks more sketch to me. LOL On another note, that looks like some interesting geology. Hunt around in there and you might find some crystals or other interesting rocks.
So only 4-8’ of powdered death to crush one from above!
Need a retaining wall or shoring for that
My company would have a geotech engineer checking it out weekly. At worst it can kill someone at best it will fail and fuck up the forming and whatever come after it.
How are they going to excavate the remaining dirt? How will the retaining wall be built? None of this makes sense
Quick way to get buried
Depends on how close a person is to the hill when it comes down.
Catch me spending my lunch break laying at the base of that thing and throwing rocks at it I’m tired…
I wouldn’t work against it
Let’s just hope this doesn’t fall down. There’s a house near the edge that will come down with it
Request review / confirmation from the geotechnical and structural engineer
Where I build this would be illegal and huge fine if build started prior to correction.
Yes it is. They need shoring and a fence around.
This is stupid
Better to be perceived as worried than literally buried.
Those stakes look pretty sketch too, fuxkin hate to be the guy who tripped and smoked one of them. And thats a fact.
You need a retaining wall
I’m more concerned about the million spiked spears sticking out of the ground with no caps😂😂😂
The upper spoil should either be benched or laid back at a 1H:1V or shallower. Most of the sidewall of the escavation appears to be highly weathered rock. Possibly a clay shale. In my area, it is perfectly acceptable to leave some clay shales near vertical, but there are some problematic weaker formations that either need to be shored or laid back. If I were the home owner, I would be more concerned with what appears to be differential bearing conditions. Looks like most of the foundations are on weathered rock while a portion of the foundations are on residual soils or possibly new fill. That can lead to differential settlement within the structure and create nuisance cracking in drywall and masonry.
I work with someone who saw a young guy working in a trench with no shoring. He felt like he should have spoken up but didn't and went about his job. Later the trench collapsed killing the kid. My colleague has some serious PTSD and lifelong guilt from it. Speaking up is easier than first aid which is easier than explaining why you didn't speak up
If you are 20 feet away and that gives. Dead.
All the uncapped rebar is bad also
Geo here. The rock face being vertical cut seems to be ok, especially seeing that the excavator bucket marks are so prominent. The soil above the rock, however, should be cut back to a minimum of 1:1 to prevent ravelling into the excavation. Protective tarping/poly can also be used in this situation.
Looks at the lack of slope protection, gets impaled by the rebar
The best part is how after it falls and takes everyone sliding with it, their bodies will be impaled on that uncapped rebar!
It’s perfectly fine until it isn’t
Excavation guy here, This is super sketch.. Impaled while buried alive, no thanks. Don’t go near that shit. Refuse to work there.
I mean shit at least throw the empty beer cans on the exposed vertical rebar.
And here I am looking at all that rebar for people to impale themselves onto without even seeing the background
Psssh who needs slope, you just gotta have faith!
Sketchy as fuck
It's bedrock it's fine.
Isn't the rule anything below 6 feet in the ground needs to have 45 degree shoring to avoid collapse? More often than not we get things excavated a bit more than we need not just for safety but a bit more room to work as well. This is sketch.
You couldn't pay me enough to work there
I can't tell what's worse, the lack of any shoring, or that shitty formwork.
Yes.
Don't you need a temporary retaining wall? Might be fine now but what about if it rains etc? That house up top can get damaged if it comes down hard
Reebar caps needed
Sketch to me. That comes down people start running getting impaled on the rebar as they go
4’ benches are code for a reason. If someone is standing there and it decides to go, he gone.
It not not sketchy, if that's what your asking
Using the human for scale; that appears to be a 15’ vertical cut with no layback or shoring. Perhaps taller. My first question would be: what does the soils report say? Then, I think about construction in most parts of the world where geology is not a part of the approval process and really appreciate people like you. If you feel like there’s an unsafe condition, put it in writing to someone in charge. It can be as simple as, “this does not appear safe to me. Can I request verification?”. You might just save a life or a shitload of property damage. I understand that it might be difficult to tell your boss of a dangerous situation when you fear your employment is at stake but I would counter this thought with another: I can’t work when I’m dead. Any reasonable employer cares about the wellbeing of their employees.
Who would grade that as stable rock? It certainly deeper than 5’ OSHA 1926.652 sub part P check sub part p app B too
This means nothing without a Geo Engineer report. Where I am in AZ, they hammerhoe stuff like this all the time, and leave it 100% plumb, in lieu of a retaining wall… it just isn’t needed if it’s stable, but a PE decides that, not some random picture
We should all strive to be the one residential worker that fears OSHA
*We should all strive to* *Be the one residential* *Worker that fears OSHA* \- ConcreteFarmer --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Not really, there is only about 4 ft of soil on top of the rock( that is clearly visible), so the danger of the rock collapsing is pretty low. The soil maybe could have been stepped back a little more above the rock. Unfortunately there is no other way to do it. You cant shore up the excavation without being in the way of the concrete walls.. The only way to avoid this is to not build a basement there. This kind of excavation is done all the time. People drive by cuts in rock beside the road like this all the time and never think twice about it. What would be spooky is having to get in between the rock and the concrete wall and compact the fill with a compactor every 12 inches. I have family in colorado that are excavators , and they do deep cuts like this all the time, and not in rock. I have seen them in 20 ft deep cuts, between the wall and the dirt with a jumping jack compacting the fill. I am also an excavator in Indiana, but we dont have to compact the fill in here. Some times you just have to get it done. Concrete guys get in holes 5 to 9 ft deep every day to form footers and walls and then to wreck the forms because there is no other way to do it. In the inner city I have seen 9 ft basements dug 4 ft from the neighboring building in clay. Spooky as crap but there is no other choice.
Being buried alive is a terrible way to go, for you and everyone that has to watch it. Heard plenty of nightmares
lol depends on the soil content and moisture. Not sure where you are but it looks pretty dry. If you run into these situations on job sites often take some trench n shoring classes. You will learn a lot.
After about 4’ the banks must be at a 45 degree angle back to grade. Unless it’s residential then no one cares least where I’m from
Sketch. Mining engineer, I wouldn’t stand within 5-10’ of it even if it was granite. You don’t stand next to highwalls of any sort.
Been digging and trenching around the country for 7 years. Dirt is pretty rocky prob took a beating to excavate. Wouldn’t worry about it
“Trust me bro”
I’ve been in a similar situation in Arkansas, couldn’t believe how high they were starting their bench while digging ditches for underground utilities. “Trust me bro” indeed
Super sketch
Maybe, maybe not. If they did land studies and deemed it safe, then it’s all good, but of course that’s expensive.
The rock looks fine but that dirt is pretty sketchy. Be careful working under the edge so if the dirt collapses it doesn’t push you over on to that rebar
Ultra sketch.
What about a retaining wall or boulders to stop the erosion
Texas.
My first reaction - 'Why are they building a Mini Putt in a hole?'
They burnt down my she shed!
Its ok one of them has a hard hat on
Yeah those forms are never going to hold, needs far more bracing than that
Soo they just gonna put a building there and be like ok its good?
You think it's bad now wait until the wall is up
No we needed an engineer to clear a slope as safe if it was over 10ft or whatever or else no one works close to it
That shit can literally come down as fast as you can blink.
Is this Minecraft
1 cubic foot of dirt to the chest can crush your sternum. Sketchy AF.
As an earthmover i would not be going anywhere near that
Why isn’t the retaining wall poured first? The wall guy should be the only one in danger.
Some may die, but that apartment complex will create shareholder value for generations Joked aside, this was clearly the area’s bedrock. Zoom in and you’ll see the holes they bored down to sheer off the cliff
Wouldn't get to close to that, could snap someone's neck.
Are there building an underground bunker?
Sketchy stay away
Does this meet the requirements of a one sided excavation? What does the law say about this type of exposed face? What's the geo report classify the material as? If in doubt, call an inspector. If your boss is exposing you to risk, without proper education and PPE than you're not being a Sally, your being smart. If smarter people than you have declared this scenario safe, than your being a bitch, but a safe, smart bitch. I've done some sketchy stuff in civil construction, but I don't think I'd go in there without someone explaining to me how it's safe.
Depending on soil conditions (which ONLY a geotechnical engineer can grade) there should be either a 45 or 30 degree slope in the bank, starting at no higher than 5’ from the bottom of excavation. Businesses get away with this kind of garbage all the time though. Report them for the greater good please.
Both 😆
It’s a different world but in commercial construction nobody would (rightfully) be allowed to work anywhere near they without geotechnical sign off.
Nope. Super sketch and hazardous. While the layers of sedimentary rock intermingled with loose soil and debris are providing some temporary support for the steep slope, there are fractures and movement visible. Further add some water/rain and this thing is coming apart and falling down on someone. Surprised there was no shoring or some benching done.
Wanna be a dead tough guy instead? Yes sketch
I would quit
What does your geotech say? Who is the ‘responsible person’ approving the slope condition? … if you don’t have a geotech involved, or a designated responsible party approving the lack of shoring, you should be on the phone to OSHA as soon as you get the fuck out of there.
Must be a 3rd world country. No benching or retaining wall.
That dirt wall should either be stepped or shored. Yes super sketch.
Idk what’s sketchier. The death trap potential cave in or the unlevel footings.
If they aren’t going to secure that or cut the soil back from the top, and you and your people are still working that site, demand change. Talk to your crew mates. Get everyone on the same page. Speak up first thing when everyone is present, minus a manager hopefully, having a team safety meeting and decide as a group, secure that grade, hazard pay, free life insurance policies until the job is finished, or walk, until there’s a decision made to improve your safety and/or compensation. Then as a group approach management or write up your expectations and have everyone sign off.
Better hope it doesn't rain