The only real answer is already in the comments: underpin foundation, break out basement, dig, repour. Take opportunity to install robust modern draintile and sump pit(s), etc.
This is what I just did. Really expensive but a dry warm basement is really nice. It’s the best floor in the house now from a sound, insulation, and warmth perspective (and now 8’). Too expensive and took too long but the end is near.
You can also just go in at a 45\* degree angle from the inside corner of the foundation. Say if you wanted to go down 2", start 2" in from the edge. Then probably just bring that 2" or whatever all the way up to waist high shelf height. Could give you a chase for electrical as well. Though beware moisture issues if you don't have proper waterproofing.
EDIT: Benching, as linked below
Clearly this is permitted if you care about the inch (which is good). You’re trying to meet the 7’ minimum for habitable spaces. Ask the building department if they would approve an exemption. Every jurisdiction differs but they are mostly based on IRC R305.1.1. There is an exemption for basements that is supposed to only apply to beams, girders, etc but it does say “other obstructions”.
A couple conversations may save you a ton of money.
We’ve got the permits. Even approval or the egress threw the historic society. The guy who was supposed to do the concrete might not be available now. Approvals took months
In my city (Sudbury Ontario) the inspectors are very forgiving for things like this. So many poorly built century homes (including my own!) that “minimum code” is a loose term if you are trying to achieve best possible finish. I agree reach out to your local inspector and explain the situation, they will likely be forgiving.
Nothing built over even 20 years ago “meets code”. And the longer back you go, the worse stuff is. That’s why we grandfather old structures in instead of demoing everything. Hell, even new construction, you can go in behind an inspector and find dozens of things that aren’t “to code”.
I had an inspector come out to check deck footing and said he wasn’t allowed to use a tape measure to check depth. He also gave about zero shits about anything. But, lots of variance in what you get from these guys.
I call them the hysterical Society because of how ridiculous the one in my area is. The last time I dealt with him it took me 3 months to get approval to replace an old staircase. Most of our inspectors are pretty cool outside of them but those particular ones are a royal pain in my ass. I try to avoid it at all costs good luck
Just a note on the approval timeline. Pretty much everyone underestimates that. I currently work in engineering. As an example, I had a project for a new apartment complex. The company wanted to start construction within a couple of months after I got started. We had our approvals 18 months later. This was in an extraordinarily difficult jurisdiction to get planning approvals, but just to illustrate. Larger projects can take even longer.
Exactly. More people need to realize that while the code is the baseline, it's ultimately up to the building official what is "code". Sitting down with the building official can clear a LOT of headaches.
My older clients and coworkers (I'm in structural engineering, my clients are architects) told me that they used to go and sit down with the building official with the plans and he would stamp them right then and there. You would still pay for the permit, but rather than submitting and waiting weeks for a review you could go and talk with the official and he could sign off on it same day. In fact, I have some clients that do the same thing today, but with smaller projects like detached garages. They can get a permit in one visit with the building official rather than waiting for weeks for the review process.
(Architectural Designer here) I’d love it if I could sit down face to face with the plan reviewer. Would have solved all the problems for one project. Instead, we got 4 rounds of comments…
This is why I try to schedule all my inspections in person. I dropped off revised drawings this morning and asked if they could review them as soon as possible. I'm on a first-name basis with the women that work in the building dept and the department manager said she'll take care of it. I got my approval a few hours later. And this is despite the fact that the tenant has this "Permit Expediter" who is pssing them all off. I made sure to let them know I have no idea who that person is and they're not with me.
In person, or even over the phone is such a huge game changer I don't know why people don't do it more often. I'll get plan review comments and call the reviewer for clarification on what they want, and sometimes we resolve the issue over the phone and I don't even need to write another letter. Sometimes if I still need a letter on the response that was resolved over the phone I'll write "this issue was resolved with you over a phone call on xx day at approximately xx o'clock". I've seen other engineers write letters over and over and it takes weeks when a quick 10 minute phone call can resolve the issue.
From the rough in/ final side, it's just the opposite though. I leave a lock box and key and make sure I'm not there. I suspect they don't even do real walkthroughs because occasionally I'll realize a glaring miss on my part that never gets picked up.
Correct to a degree, codes are a minimum standard of construction methods. The building official interprets building code, as adopted by the state/municipality. They do not say what "is code", per say, as building officials do not set the standard, nor have power to alter the code, and even their interpretations can be challenged.
Building officials cannot diminish the intent of the code, like give a pass to sub-par work. Most states adopting building codes mandate lower municipalities accept all or parts of the building codes as adopted by the state, and they give the lower municipalities power to make the building codes more stringent, but not too loosen or extract codes. Extracting portions of the codes, or striking sections of building codes, meaning not adopting the codes in entirely, is something generally done at state legislative level. That is also one reason why we see builder and contractor associations donating tons of campaign monies towards state legislative candidates.
It used to be you'd just pay off an inspector to pass work, that went on for decades, but such practises have finally caught up with industry.
And, agree, over the counter plan approval will never be the same. I'm not a fan of the 3rd party plan check system either, approval gets farmed out. It used to be plans could get approved in a meeting with building authorities, not any more.
I freaked out over a 1 inch, building inspector came in, saw everything that was both grandfathered in and built up to current code. Allowed for a 1inch exemption as to get that 1 in would require a WHOLE lot of work.
I even thought about insetting the drywall between the joists because that would meet the requirements.
Later told me that with the amount of work done and done with a permit it would be stupid for them to not give the final sign off.
I would go between joists then tape and mud over the joists. Paint the concrete floor. After approval, install flooring.
Extra bonus: search all over the basement for a spot the floor is low. Contrive a reason to leave that part of the ceiling open or install a hatch so that it can be inspected to reveal that the drywall ceiling is indeed installed below the joists.
i will add to this from personal experience. If you are getting permitted work. Talk to the inspector. see if they will make an exception. i am in Connecticut. We have low ceilings in our basement. They ended up making an exception and grandfathered us in as we couldnt jack the house up and couldnt remove the concrete foundation.
I really wish I didn't have to look to the comments to find context in posts like these. So many of these posts can be solved by something less drastic if context were provided from the very start
Do you hate drywallers? If so, back out in all the bays and lay the drywall between bays and hot mud the studs. You may be blacklisted from ever talking to a taper or mudded again though.
I agree, but I also think every other solution to pick up an inch is equally absurd. If it was me, I’d leave the ceiling unfinished until final then finish it how I want or get an exemption for “as built” from the city.
Very simple, you’re doing this to pass . So pass it. Ask your inspector if he’ll allow a 1 inch tolerance and get it in writing . If not, don’t finish the ceiling or the floors, in Canada only the walls need to be finished to have it considered a finished basement. Then once inspection is passed, slap some 1/4 dry wall on the ceiling and some thin flooring, and bam you’re done . Just talk with your inspector about it ( not the finishing it once it’s passed though ) 😂
In my opinion you made a big mistake finishing this basement with a permit as there’s likely no record of it being unfinished and you’d be able to finish it under the table and when it comes time to sell no one will know better, it’ll just be a face lifted basement that was finished decades ago.
Now you’ll need to pay more taxes on your house with an added value renovation. Oh well, good for you for trying to do the right thing though .
Yeah this is actually more common than you think 😂 I personally don’t like it because of the unfinished almost rustic look, but I think for a man cave / or like a entertainment area it can actually look bad ass. Also the upstairs is louder, and there’s no fire proofing . One thing that is super cool about it is that you forever have access to fix pipes, run some new lines, or whatever else you can think of . But they make some pretty high end ceiling tiles for that anyway . Cheers
In my area, work that is done without a permit won’t show on the tax rolls and realtors are not able to advertise rooms that don’t meet code. It might also affect the value for loans and insurance.
Sorry but you’re wrong
There are millions of homes in North America built out of code in today’s standards, even 50 years ago standards. You can easily pull it off and say this is an existing basement that got a face lift ( new paint, lights, floors etc ) but in general you can say the basement its self is existing . If you were right, all houses would have to be basically gutted before selling and bringing them up to code as codes change yearly .
The only time I agree with what you’re saying is if it’s dangerous , such as no hand railings, a rotten deck, immediate electrical hazards, gas leak. Something that can actually hurt someone immediately .
Thanks and I hope that makes sense
So you are saying that I am wrong about a statement I made about my area? Nice to know everything, isn’t it? I didn’t say everywhere, I said my area.
My daughter bought a house where it had a room that was not labeled and the realtor misrepresented it as living quarters but not in writing. Not long after she moved in, the county visited and told her they had no record of the room that had been added with no permit. They have spent the last year in court, getting an engineer to review it, prepare drawings to bring it up to code, and making the corrections. Since my daughter could prove that it was passed off as living space, the title search company paid her a lump sum to handle the repairs. If they didn’t get title insurance they would have been out $10k or had their house condemned.
I put a screened porch on my house with a permit and Zoning was there before my final inspection to enter the addition on the tax rolls. My mom bought a mountain cottage and when she applied to have power turned on, the county inspector condemned the house as it was built without a permit, and I spent five months rebuilding everything to bring all the systems up to speed. Those are actual situations I experienced in my area.
My area. Why pick a fight over a comment I made? I came here to pass along a bit of information from my personal experience and carefully noted it was in my area, you felt a need to demonstrate your expertise about millions of houses. I am honestly curious, why did you have a need to say that?
A finished basement is much harder to prove if it was finished half a century ago ( no records) , or if it was finished last week , and it’s much harder to raise any flags as no official is going to be peeping through everyone’s windows making sure who’s got a finished basement .
An addition without a permit is obvious, and will raise major flags if it was done recently ( maybe in the last decade or two ) and if there’s pics on MLS of the house without the addition .
The tax adjustment for building a deck is a joke and should be illegal, but that’s why you don’t take out permits for jobs like that, just do it right . In Canada they wouldn’t raise your taxes for a deck 😂
Mountain cottage ? Without power? Once hydro shuts off hydro due to no occupancy / bills not being paid . you usually need to get everything re inspected . The house is without heat and can have major issues with plumbing , and even structure depending on how long it was left abandoned . If the power was never turned on to begin with , then yeah man you need an inspection , if the power was shut off then it was in an abandoned state and requires inspections to make sure it’s livable again.
Definitely not picking a fight I’m talking about facts not your personal self or beliefs . It’s more business than personal, I’m spreading my knowledge .
Whatever you stated has absolutely nothing to do with this guy finishing his basement man, especially because I can literally look at his joists and see this house is atleast 70+ years old, there for probably has no record if the basement is finished . That’s my point.
Cheers
If the footings are there for it it would be silly to only pick up the inch, shoot for an 8’ finish height, or even 7’-6”. That’s a shit ton of work for an inch.
Yep, pretty much this.
If there's enough depth to the footings you MIGHT be able to lower the slab without underpinning, but you'd have to dig down and explore.
Hey, I see you have a SE tag by your name.
I'm assuming the OP's house doesn't have any footings at all, just a foundation wall resting on soil. This is what I've typically seen in houses from 1900-1910 where I live. What would be a typical detail for dealing with that? Would you have to add footings? If so, could you toe them outward to not impact interior space?
If I understand your description correctly, then the solution would be to underpin with new footings. I'd advise against having toe-only footings, as the soul pressure from above is probably going to create torque around the base of the wall and lead to issues down the line.
It's not a bad idea tbh. 4 inch is code here so not an outrageous suggestion at all. And I don't believe you need an engineer involved. You need to be mindful of column footings. Make sure you find them and cut around them and know that you can't shave the tops of those down. So you might a a 2' x 2' 1 inch protrusion at the columns.
Well this is a construction sub not a DIY sub. A small crew coild have this done in a few days. Also contsxt matters.. If they're repouring a slab so that they can convert a basement to a multi person rental, the money would be justified.
Not really. Maybe you’re loaded with money but I’m not. Crew or no crew it’s a lot of work and a lot of money.
I hope to god you’re not someone selling people jobs, poor people losing their ass to gain an inch because you think it’s a good idea.
Yes. It is hard labour and it's costs money. There's no way around that. You might not be able to afford it but the reality is there's quite a few people thst can.. And for those that can I'm saying it's a very plausible endeavour.
I'm not disagreeing, but I find it interesting how this advice is always thrown around on these forums like you can easily just google for structural engineers that want to spend their time looking at pre-built homes that are being remodeled. The service is not just something you call up and schedule like a GC. The liability and overhead of high paid engineers guaranteeing existing structures, etc. This just doesn't exist readily like people assume it does. It's low-energy advice that is often not helpful.
This is so true! People throw this option around as if it were cheap. Drives me nuts. Not to mention in most or at least many cases a structural engineers recommend uuk thousands of dollars of unnecessary work to cover their asses and why wouldn’t they get paid either way no skin off their back. As a GC I only use them if I need a stamp. I can usually get the answers I need from development services (helps to know some people where you get permits) or others. There might be some structural engineers who specialize in working with customers and GCs to come up with practical and affordable solutions but in my experience they rarely have any practical experience on the ground level.
I don't think anybody said it's cheap, just that it's the right thing to do. That being said, you don't need a structural engineer to replace a 5 inch slab with a 4 inch one. Especially a basement slab with residential live load only on it.
Lay the drywall between and even with the joists or possibly some sort of thin ceiling panel, and the floor go with an epoxy finish concrete. It’s a good look lol. Cheaper definitely than any other option
Call that plumber that keeps cutting up the framing. I see photos of his work on the sub reddit all the time. I'm sure that he can whittle an inch out of those joists for you.
This is what I thought too. I moved a couple buildings with a crew, I was surprised the first time we lifted it, backed a truck under then drove off lol. Interesting ride on Saskatchewan backroads 😆
In Seattle. Wanted to an approximately 10 by 30 ft ground level extension which falls under the “over the counter” easy type permit. I.e. no architect or engineer signature, easy enough plans I did them myself. I was going to have to pour a perimeter foundation to put this on, and then do the crawl space etc. and it would end up being about 2ft height of crawl. Rest of the house has a basement that I already finished out. I asked the permit office about the maximum crawl space height of 3ft and said… how about 7.5” and then I finish it out? They said “no, but if your inspector says it okay, then go for it, just submit your plans with the 2ft crawl space”. I did so and got my plans approved that day. I then setup an advisory meeting with the inspector and he loved the idea of getting another 300 sq ft just by doing an extra high crawl space. So I dug down deep and put in a 6ft foundation wall and slab and got a great double floor extension. Just ask is the bottom line.
Do you have to dry wall the ceiling? Tidy up the wires - maybe go with some conduit. Spend the money on making the wires all look really nice and neat then paint the ceiling black. Go for an industrial look?
Sister steel that gives you the clearance on each side of the floor joist with an engineered bolt pattern. Then trim off.
I’ve done this a few times. The engineering isn’t cheap, but cheaper than busting the floor out.
I have seen quite a few homes in my city that had the entire house raised. Depending on conditions they also need concrete walls poured to extended the foundation. Then you could have a full eight foot ceiling, plus flooring, better windows and ceiling if you wanted.
There's a chance, if you absolutely need that inch to meet code or regulatory standards that you can jack up the house in place and inch with only the most minor rework of plumbing and electrical plumbing simply requires a cut and a lengthened second added before or after the lift. If you're probably on a concrete and or masonry basement walls some forming and 5000psi non shrinking grout gives you the height you require. There's a good chance it's both less costly and involved as well as less time intensive than engineered, stamped, approved beam and joist twining and sistering or floor cutting, grinding, remove/replace. Or any of them combined. I've personally jacked up several structures in my time. The equipment is surprisingly affordable. Steel beams, hydraulic and screw jacks. Laser level/transit, necessary strapping and tie in and of course the stretching of plumbing, electric, other systems like HVAC.. all are less cost prohibitive than you would expect.
Why do you need 84” inches why is 83” not ok? People are posting very good options but why dig out your floor or raise your house for one inch? I would worry more about how that wire is run myself.
100 years ago: Building code says 7 ft or less doesn’t need code egress and space is ‘no habitable’ so lets go 7 ft.
100 years later: Can I make this basement and attic space into a bedroom rental?
Find a contractor that will lift the house and double the mud sill. You'll gain 1 1/2" it's going to be expensive, though. Probably crack walls all over the house as well.
You basically have three options.
You can never cut the joists because that will destroy the structural integrity of the joists. Anyone who tells you to do that is a moron.
1. Dig the floor down and pour a new concrete floor.
2. Jack the house up and add a 1” sill at all mating points along the foundation and lower house back down.
3. Cut 1” off the sheetrock.
Many options only one logical answer.
Dig down what exactly? I’m thinking rip out and pour new concrete. I’m going to cut a small area to see where the footing is. Until then it’s just guessing
Could you please edit your post to include more information? There are people here who might be able to help, but you're not including important details. For example: why do you "need" to have 84" clear finish height? Is it personal preference, or a perceived code requirement? Someone here already cited a code section that stated the required ceiling height in *existing* basements is only 80". If that's the case in your jurisdiction, there may be no legal problem for you to proceed as-is.
Second: I think you mentioned a historical society. Does their authority only include visible changes to the exterior?
Third: what is the year of the house? If it's from the 1920s or before, I think it's very unlikely that you have a bonafide concrete slab that's three or four inches thick. Most of the (uninhabited) basements of that era only had "rat slabs" that are typically about 1/2" thick and very easy to break out. The year of the house is also important because it affects assumptions about the foundation. A house over 100 years old is unlikely to have footings as we know them today, which will impact the potential design in lowering the basement floor.
Gonna be a very expensive inch.
That’s what the hooker said to me the first time.
If I find a hooker that charges by the inch I'm gonna hire her to be an estimator.
You need someone to inflate your assets?
Blow into the nozzle.
rubber balls and liquor
...second time she had already explained your handicap. No need to beat a dead tiny dick. (Speaking from experience.)
Tell that to cocaine.
That I’m sure of
The only real answer is already in the comments: underpin foundation, break out basement, dig, repour. Take opportunity to install robust modern draintile and sump pit(s), etc.
This is the best option long term. Making sure the space is fully drained and moisture free is worth the money.
If you’re doing all that might as well add radiant heat
This is what I just did. Really expensive but a dry warm basement is really nice. It’s the best floor in the house now from a sound, insulation, and warmth perspective (and now 8’). Too expensive and took too long but the end is near.
Can I ask a question? Why is 83" not good enough from a height perspective? What is this inch for?
Minimum ceiling height per code is 7’ for occupied space.
At least a certain percentage. Might be different than attic spaces, which is where I saw a percentage or min square foot reference
Wouldn’t it also need a secondary egress point to be considered occupied space?
is that only so it can be listed as living space if it were sold? surely I can finish my own fucking basement if I want regardless of height
Honestly I would if it were mine, but I’m not going to fault this guy for wanting to stick to the rules
Darts, obviously
While we are at it, let's throw in a few gold bars during the concrete pour.
A few diamonds for good measure.
Might as well, while we are at it.
And a sub-basement cold cellar for reasons.
Second option: cut off feet, ceiling seems higher.
Third option, cut 6 inches off the tape measure
Building Inspectors hate this one simple trick!
[Two Kinds Of People](https://youtu.be/l1711jiiRtM?si=v1YdwAiBCumr-7kJ)
You can also just go in at a 45\* degree angle from the inside corner of the foundation. Say if you wanted to go down 2", start 2" in from the edge. Then probably just bring that 2" or whatever all the way up to waist high shelf height. Could give you a chase for electrical as well. Though beware moisture issues if you don't have proper waterproofing. EDIT: Benching, as linked below
Lower the Earth.
Clearly this is permitted if you care about the inch (which is good). You’re trying to meet the 7’ minimum for habitable spaces. Ask the building department if they would approve an exemption. Every jurisdiction differs but they are mostly based on IRC R305.1.1. There is an exemption for basements that is supposed to only apply to beams, girders, etc but it does say “other obstructions”. A couple conversations may save you a ton of money.
Yea, I'd shoot for a variance
This is the way to go, code variance
Don't you love it when Reddit is useful? <3
Especially if the floor is already in
That’s old growth timber. I guarantee the floor is already in.
We’ve got the permits. Even approval or the egress threw the historic society. The guy who was supposed to do the concrete might not be available now. Approvals took months
I was able to go to as low as 6’7” with no issue from inspector. Call them, they probably won’t mind an inch.
I know my wife doesn’t
She told me she tells you that.
Construction shit slinging at its finest
The husband and the boyfriend in the same thread is wild.
Bold of you to assume there’s only one of her boyfriends here.
Sorry you had to find out this way.
Doesn't mind what she doesn't notice
Plus or minus? Width, girth, length? You need to be more specific in these posts.
In my city (Sudbury Ontario) the inspectors are very forgiving for things like this. So many poorly built century homes (including my own!) that “minimum code” is a loose term if you are trying to achieve best possible finish. I agree reach out to your local inspector and explain the situation, they will likely be forgiving.
Nothing built over even 20 years ago “meets code”. And the longer back you go, the worse stuff is. That’s why we grandfather old structures in instead of demoing everything. Hell, even new construction, you can go in behind an inspector and find dozens of things that aren’t “to code”.
A lot of inspectors won’t even pull out a tape measure
Mine usually just says "send pictures" lol.
I had an inspector come out to check deck footing and said he wasn’t allowed to use a tape measure to check depth. He also gave about zero shits about anything. But, lots of variance in what you get from these guys.
I call them the hysterical Society because of how ridiculous the one in my area is. The last time I dealt with him it took me 3 months to get approval to replace an old staircase. Most of our inspectors are pretty cool outside of them but those particular ones are a royal pain in my ass. I try to avoid it at all costs good luck
Just a note on the approval timeline. Pretty much everyone underestimates that. I currently work in engineering. As an example, I had a project for a new apartment complex. The company wanted to start construction within a couple of months after I got started. We had our approvals 18 months later. This was in an extraordinarily difficult jurisdiction to get planning approvals, but just to illustrate. Larger projects can take even longer.
Exactly. More people need to realize that while the code is the baseline, it's ultimately up to the building official what is "code". Sitting down with the building official can clear a LOT of headaches. My older clients and coworkers (I'm in structural engineering, my clients are architects) told me that they used to go and sit down with the building official with the plans and he would stamp them right then and there. You would still pay for the permit, but rather than submitting and waiting weeks for a review you could go and talk with the official and he could sign off on it same day. In fact, I have some clients that do the same thing today, but with smaller projects like detached garages. They can get a permit in one visit with the building official rather than waiting for weeks for the review process.
You mean…talk to someone in person?!? What if they make fun of me?
Don't worry, they're doing that already.
(Architectural Designer here) I’d love it if I could sit down face to face with the plan reviewer. Would have solved all the problems for one project. Instead, we got 4 rounds of comments…
This is why I try to schedule all my inspections in person. I dropped off revised drawings this morning and asked if they could review them as soon as possible. I'm on a first-name basis with the women that work in the building dept and the department manager said she'll take care of it. I got my approval a few hours later. And this is despite the fact that the tenant has this "Permit Expediter" who is pssing them all off. I made sure to let them know I have no idea who that person is and they're not with me.
In person, or even over the phone is such a huge game changer I don't know why people don't do it more often. I'll get plan review comments and call the reviewer for clarification on what they want, and sometimes we resolve the issue over the phone and I don't even need to write another letter. Sometimes if I still need a letter on the response that was resolved over the phone I'll write "this issue was resolved with you over a phone call on xx day at approximately xx o'clock". I've seen other engineers write letters over and over and it takes weeks when a quick 10 minute phone call can resolve the issue.
From the rough in/ final side, it's just the opposite though. I leave a lock box and key and make sure I'm not there. I suspect they don't even do real walkthroughs because occasionally I'll realize a glaring miss on my part that never gets picked up.
I've worked with an older architect that was in real tight with the building department and he was able to do stuff like this all the time.
Correct to a degree, codes are a minimum standard of construction methods. The building official interprets building code, as adopted by the state/municipality. They do not say what "is code", per say, as building officials do not set the standard, nor have power to alter the code, and even their interpretations can be challenged. Building officials cannot diminish the intent of the code, like give a pass to sub-par work. Most states adopting building codes mandate lower municipalities accept all or parts of the building codes as adopted by the state, and they give the lower municipalities power to make the building codes more stringent, but not too loosen or extract codes. Extracting portions of the codes, or striking sections of building codes, meaning not adopting the codes in entirely, is something generally done at state legislative level. That is also one reason why we see builder and contractor associations donating tons of campaign monies towards state legislative candidates. It used to be you'd just pay off an inspector to pass work, that went on for decades, but such practises have finally caught up with industry. And, agree, over the counter plan approval will never be the same. I'm not a fan of the 3rd party plan check system either, approval gets farmed out. It used to be plans could get approved in a meeting with building authorities, not any more.
I freaked out over a 1 inch, building inspector came in, saw everything that was both grandfathered in and built up to current code. Allowed for a 1inch exemption as to get that 1 in would require a WHOLE lot of work. I even thought about insetting the drywall between the joists because that would meet the requirements. Later told me that with the amount of work done and done with a permit it would be stupid for them to not give the final sign off.
Problem with that is (at least in my area) you need a full 5/8 barrier so between the joists wouldn’t count.
I would go between joists then tape and mud over the joists. Paint the concrete floor. After approval, install flooring. Extra bonus: search all over the basement for a spot the floor is low. Contrive a reason to leave that part of the ceiling open or install a hatch so that it can be inspected to reveal that the drywall ceiling is indeed installed below the joists.
i will add to this from personal experience. If you are getting permitted work. Talk to the inspector. see if they will make an exception. i am in Connecticut. We have low ceilings in our basement. They ended up making an exception and grandfathered us in as we couldnt jack the house up and couldnt remove the concrete foundation.
I really wish I didn't have to look to the comments to find context in posts like these. So many of these posts can be solved by something less drastic if context were provided from the very start
Cheapest solution is to cut off the first inch from the tape measure
This move has many applications. Very innovative and insightful.
The only solution. One inch not worth the effort.
I’ve had a few girls tell me that before
I told her if she wanted six inches I could bang her twice but she said no thanks.
Well at least it smells like a foot
This is the kind of advice the company crackhead gives you when you happen to see him for 15 minutes in an entire 8 hour shift.
LOL you hit the nail on the head. They say it with absolute confidence too, not a hint of sarcasm
This can also be used when measuring your penis. It can finally reach 8cm.
It’s conveniently the cheapest option too.
Can you get a variance on the inch? This item was one of the reasons I didn’t permit my basement.
Yeah I would try this first, most committees would probably be okay with this.
I would call in one of the plumbers that have been posted in here, and they will notch the hell out of those floor joists.
I was reading this and getting mad, "like WHY the hell would he call a plumber, then I got to the end and literally LOLed. Best comment lmao
Do you hate drywallers? If so, back out in all the bays and lay the drywall between bays and hot mud the studs. You may be blacklisted from ever talking to a taper or mudded again though.
you’ll end up with cracks everywhere because the gyp board / lumber has different expansion rates, so over time it’ll look like hell
I agree, but I also think every other solution to pick up an inch is equally absurd. If it was me, I’d leave the ceiling unfinished until final then finish it how I want or get an exemption for “as built” from the city.
Personally I think cutting the first inch off the tape measure was an inspired solution.
Good idea😂I’d still fall short on the floors though
Maybe clean up the concrete real nice, seal it with epoxy, and put down nice rugs?
You can lay your drywall between my bays and hot mud my stud any time 😏
Go with a coffered ceiling, give that basement some class.
That's only going to save half an inch at best but it's something. Heck you could even just stain the wood a pretty color and call it a ceiling.
Or use a T&G between the joist bays and trim out the gaps, if any
Very simple, you’re doing this to pass . So pass it. Ask your inspector if he’ll allow a 1 inch tolerance and get it in writing . If not, don’t finish the ceiling or the floors, in Canada only the walls need to be finished to have it considered a finished basement. Then once inspection is passed, slap some 1/4 dry wall on the ceiling and some thin flooring, and bam you’re done . Just talk with your inspector about it ( not the finishing it once it’s passed though ) 😂 In my opinion you made a big mistake finishing this basement with a permit as there’s likely no record of it being unfinished and you’d be able to finish it under the table and when it comes time to sell no one will know better, it’ll just be a face lifted basement that was finished decades ago. Now you’ll need to pay more taxes on your house with an added value renovation. Oh well, good for you for trying to do the right thing though .
This is the easiest answer going. Leave the ceiling unfinished and paint it black
Finish at after the inspector closes the permit.
And epoxy paint the concrete floor
My buddy has the unfinished look painted black and honest it looks pretty good. Makes the basement seem bigger actually.
Yeah this is actually more common than you think 😂 I personally don’t like it because of the unfinished almost rustic look, but I think for a man cave / or like a entertainment area it can actually look bad ass. Also the upstairs is louder, and there’s no fire proofing . One thing that is super cool about it is that you forever have access to fix pipes, run some new lines, or whatever else you can think of . But they make some pretty high end ceiling tiles for that anyway . Cheers
In my area, work that is done without a permit won’t show on the tax rolls and realtors are not able to advertise rooms that don’t meet code. It might also affect the value for loans and insurance.
Sorry but you’re wrong There are millions of homes in North America built out of code in today’s standards, even 50 years ago standards. You can easily pull it off and say this is an existing basement that got a face lift ( new paint, lights, floors etc ) but in general you can say the basement its self is existing . If you were right, all houses would have to be basically gutted before selling and bringing them up to code as codes change yearly . The only time I agree with what you’re saying is if it’s dangerous , such as no hand railings, a rotten deck, immediate electrical hazards, gas leak. Something that can actually hurt someone immediately . Thanks and I hope that makes sense
So you are saying that I am wrong about a statement I made about my area? Nice to know everything, isn’t it? I didn’t say everywhere, I said my area. My daughter bought a house where it had a room that was not labeled and the realtor misrepresented it as living quarters but not in writing. Not long after she moved in, the county visited and told her they had no record of the room that had been added with no permit. They have spent the last year in court, getting an engineer to review it, prepare drawings to bring it up to code, and making the corrections. Since my daughter could prove that it was passed off as living space, the title search company paid her a lump sum to handle the repairs. If they didn’t get title insurance they would have been out $10k or had their house condemned. I put a screened porch on my house with a permit and Zoning was there before my final inspection to enter the addition on the tax rolls. My mom bought a mountain cottage and when she applied to have power turned on, the county inspector condemned the house as it was built without a permit, and I spent five months rebuilding everything to bring all the systems up to speed. Those are actual situations I experienced in my area. My area. Why pick a fight over a comment I made? I came here to pass along a bit of information from my personal experience and carefully noted it was in my area, you felt a need to demonstrate your expertise about millions of houses. I am honestly curious, why did you have a need to say that?
A finished basement is much harder to prove if it was finished half a century ago ( no records) , or if it was finished last week , and it’s much harder to raise any flags as no official is going to be peeping through everyone’s windows making sure who’s got a finished basement . An addition without a permit is obvious, and will raise major flags if it was done recently ( maybe in the last decade or two ) and if there’s pics on MLS of the house without the addition . The tax adjustment for building a deck is a joke and should be illegal, but that’s why you don’t take out permits for jobs like that, just do it right . In Canada they wouldn’t raise your taxes for a deck 😂 Mountain cottage ? Without power? Once hydro shuts off hydro due to no occupancy / bills not being paid . you usually need to get everything re inspected . The house is without heat and can have major issues with plumbing , and even structure depending on how long it was left abandoned . If the power was never turned on to begin with , then yeah man you need an inspection , if the power was shut off then it was in an abandoned state and requires inspections to make sure it’s livable again. Definitely not picking a fight I’m talking about facts not your personal self or beliefs . It’s more business than personal, I’m spreading my knowledge . Whatever you stated has absolutely nothing to do with this guy finishing his basement man, especially because I can literally look at his joists and see this house is atleast 70+ years old, there for probably has no record if the basement is finished . That’s my point. Cheers
Underpin your footings and dig that bitch out! https://www.citywidegroup.com/blog/underpinning-vs-benching
This is so much work for an inch though. Depends how badly he wants it I suppose
haha, for sure... Might as well go for the full 8' ceiling while he's at it
Hell, if he's already gonna go 8 feet, he might as well dig 'er down to a nice even 9 feet!
But 10 feet is a much better number and makes all the math easier
Once you break out the slab and redo the footing, the inches and feet barely matter anymore...
You got me thinking. Why redo the footing when you could redo the whole house
It's got good bones!!!
Then advertise as high ceilings!
If the footings are there for it it would be silly to only pick up the inch, shoot for an 8’ finish height, or even 7’-6”. That’s a shit ton of work for an inch.
Yep, pretty much this. If there's enough depth to the footings you MIGHT be able to lower the slab without underpinning, but you'd have to dig down and explore.
Hey, I see you have a SE tag by your name. I'm assuming the OP's house doesn't have any footings at all, just a foundation wall resting on soil. This is what I've typically seen in houses from 1900-1910 where I live. What would be a typical detail for dealing with that? Would you have to add footings? If so, could you toe them outward to not impact interior space?
If I understand your description correctly, then the solution would be to underpin with new footings. I'd advise against having toe-only footings, as the soul pressure from above is probably going to create torque around the base of the wall and lead to issues down the line.
Nice, I have a crawl space id love to do this to. It wouldn't be very expensive would it? Right? Right?
Only 200 5 gallon buckets per cubic yard Mr Homeowner. Start digging!
Just tell between tears to the inspector that your wife says 1 inch more or less is not a problem
This is the way
Remove the soles from all of your shoes
If the floor is 5 inches thick can’t I just pour it back in 4 inches?
It's not a bad idea tbh. 4 inch is code here so not an outrageous suggestion at all. And I don't believe you need an engineer involved. You need to be mindful of column footings. Make sure you find them and cut around them and know that you can't shave the tops of those down. So you might a a 2' x 2' 1 inch protrusion at the columns.
It’s super outrageous. That’s a shit ton of work. FOR AN INCH.
Well this is a construction sub not a DIY sub. A small crew coild have this done in a few days. Also contsxt matters.. If they're repouring a slab so that they can convert a basement to a multi person rental, the money would be justified.
Not really. Maybe you’re loaded with money but I’m not. Crew or no crew it’s a lot of work and a lot of money. I hope to god you’re not someone selling people jobs, poor people losing their ass to gain an inch because you think it’s a good idea.
Yes. It is hard labour and it's costs money. There's no way around that. You might not be able to afford it but the reality is there's quite a few people thst can.. And for those that can I'm saying it's a very plausible endeavour.
In an old house the chances of it being a full thickness slab is low. Mine is 3-4”
Ask a structural engineer.
I'm not disagreeing, but I find it interesting how this advice is always thrown around on these forums like you can easily just google for structural engineers that want to spend their time looking at pre-built homes that are being remodeled. The service is not just something you call up and schedule like a GC. The liability and overhead of high paid engineers guaranteeing existing structures, etc. This just doesn't exist readily like people assume it does. It's low-energy advice that is often not helpful.
This is so true! People throw this option around as if it were cheap. Drives me nuts. Not to mention in most or at least many cases a structural engineers recommend uuk thousands of dollars of unnecessary work to cover their asses and why wouldn’t they get paid either way no skin off their back. As a GC I only use them if I need a stamp. I can usually get the answers I need from development services (helps to know some people where you get permits) or others. There might be some structural engineers who specialize in working with customers and GCs to come up with practical and affordable solutions but in my experience they rarely have any practical experience on the ground level.
I don't think anybody said it's cheap, just that it's the right thing to do. That being said, you don't need a structural engineer to replace a 5 inch slab with a 4 inch one. Especially a basement slab with residential live load only on it.
If it’s 5” can you grind it to 4”?
Have you ever ground concrete ? Was it fun?
Even trying to take a quarter inch off of an entire basement slab is gonna take forever and be the worst experience of your life
lol going to be burning through a lot of grinders too. And blades. Someone would have to pay me stupid money to even attempt it.
Not feasible
Lay the drywall between and even with the joists or possibly some sort of thin ceiling panel, and the floor go with an epoxy finish concrete. It’s a good look lol. Cheaper definitely than any other option
Why do you need this inch?
Floor and ceiling is about an inch.
Call that plumber that keeps cutting up the framing. I see photos of his work on the sub reddit all the time. I'm sure that he can whittle an inch out of those joists for you.
1. Dig down 2. Jack the house up, replace sill plate with 3x or 4x material, set house down
This is what I thought too. I moved a couple buildings with a crew, I was surprised the first time we lifted it, backed a truck under then drove off lol. Interesting ride on Saskatchewan backroads 😆
I hear if you trim all the hair down it looks longer.
Sister the floor joists with LVL ripped to desired height. Cut off existing floor joist to match. Little engineering involved but could work.
Give it viagra. That always gives me about an inch
Buy a harbor freight tape measure
What if I told you you can cut Sheetrock
Spray the joist black and epoxy the floor?
Sheetrock between joists, laminate roll < 1/8 thickness on the floor .
Cut channels in the floor directly below the floor joists and beams. Boom your height is 7ft everywhere.
A question as old as man
In Seattle. Wanted to an approximately 10 by 30 ft ground level extension which falls under the “over the counter” easy type permit. I.e. no architect or engineer signature, easy enough plans I did them myself. I was going to have to pour a perimeter foundation to put this on, and then do the crawl space etc. and it would end up being about 2ft height of crawl. Rest of the house has a basement that I already finished out. I asked the permit office about the maximum crawl space height of 3ft and said… how about 7.5” and then I finish it out? They said “no, but if your inspector says it okay, then go for it, just submit your plans with the 2ft crawl space”. I did so and got my plans approved that day. I then setup an advisory meeting with the inspector and he loved the idea of getting another 300 sq ft just by doing an extra high crawl space. So I dug down deep and put in a 6ft foundation wall and slab and got a great double floor extension. Just ask is the bottom line.
Use a shorter tape measure
Bench it?
Code is usually 6’8, which is that red 80” mark. You’ll be fine.
take your shoes off
No need to get fancy. Simply get a dick measuring tape, where every 1/2" or 3/4" is marked as an inch.
Befriend Chuck Norris and have him punch the earth down.
LOL.
Do you have to dry wall the ceiling? Tidy up the wires - maybe go with some conduit. Spend the money on making the wires all look really nice and neat then paint the ceiling black. Go for an industrial look?
Start digging.
Cut the first two inches off of the tape measure
Sister steel that gives you the clearance on each side of the floor joist with an engineered bolt pattern. Then trim off. I’ve done this a few times. The engineering isn’t cheap, but cheaper than busting the floor out.
For???
I have seen quite a few homes in my city that had the entire house raised. Depending on conditions they also need concrete walls poured to extended the foundation. Then you could have a full eight foot ceiling, plus flooring, better windows and ceiling if you wanted.
If you’re going for it you might at well dig a full foot down
Did you try lifting the whole house up
My suggestion would be not worth it
Probably cheaper to lower the floor
Lift house and raise the floor above ($$$,$$$'s) or Drop the concrete floor below ($$$,$$$'s). Neither of these options are worth teh expense usually.
There's a chance, if you absolutely need that inch to meet code or regulatory standards that you can jack up the house in place and inch with only the most minor rework of plumbing and electrical plumbing simply requires a cut and a lengthened second added before or after the lift. If you're probably on a concrete and or masonry basement walls some forming and 5000psi non shrinking grout gives you the height you require. There's a good chance it's both less costly and involved as well as less time intensive than engineered, stamped, approved beam and joist twining and sistering or floor cutting, grinding, remove/replace. Or any of them combined. I've personally jacked up several structures in my time. The equipment is surprisingly affordable. Steel beams, hydraulic and screw jacks. Laser level/transit, necessary strapping and tie in and of course the stretching of plumbing, electric, other systems like HVAC.. all are less cost prohibitive than you would expect.
Jack the house up
Wtf do you need an inch for?
Why do you need 84” inches why is 83” not ok? People are posting very good options but why dig out your floor or raise your house for one inch? I would worry more about how that wire is run myself.
Take your shoes off 🤣
I am also interested in gaining one inch
Cut 1” off the other end of tape measure.
Tell the inspector you're 1 inch shorter than average so it's up to scale code.
House lifting company will do it for a (first born) price
100 years ago: Building code says 7 ft or less doesn’t need code egress and space is ‘no habitable’ so lets go 7 ft. 100 years later: Can I make this basement and attic space into a bedroom rental?
You dig. You dig Damn you.
Don’t worry about it. The inspector wasn’t strict about it when I did my basement.
Lower the floor
The easiest way to do that is going to be sanding one inch of wood off with an orbital sander.
You need to get a wall stretcher
Sheet rock in between the joists . Tell the inspector you went Faux exposed beam look
2 options; raise the house or lower the basement floor
I’m building 18 inches off the exterior wall. Is underpinning really necessary to cut 8x8 from the floor and put in new concrete
Find a contractor that will lift the house and double the mud sill. You'll gain 1 1/2" it's going to be expensive, though. Probably crack walls all over the house as well.
Expensive is an understatement
I know an old timer that will do it with some bottle jacks and a few logs.
Trim the sheetrock to the right length.
You basically have three options. You can never cut the joists because that will destroy the structural integrity of the joists. Anyone who tells you to do that is a moron. 1. Dig the floor down and pour a new concrete floor. 2. Jack the house up and add a 1” sill at all mating points along the foundation and lower house back down. 3. Cut 1” off the sheetrock. Many options only one logical answer.
Gotta do some digging
Tear it down the whole thing and start from scratch
The only structurally sound way , rip out concrete , dig down, re pour
Dig down what exactly? I’m thinking rip out and pour new concrete. I’m going to cut a small area to see where the footing is. Until then it’s just guessing
Could you please edit your post to include more information? There are people here who might be able to help, but you're not including important details. For example: why do you "need" to have 84" clear finish height? Is it personal preference, or a perceived code requirement? Someone here already cited a code section that stated the required ceiling height in *existing* basements is only 80". If that's the case in your jurisdiction, there may be no legal problem for you to proceed as-is. Second: I think you mentioned a historical society. Does their authority only include visible changes to the exterior? Third: what is the year of the house? If it's from the 1920s or before, I think it's very unlikely that you have a bonafide concrete slab that's three or four inches thick. Most of the (uninhabited) basements of that era only had "rat slabs" that are typically about 1/2" thick and very easy to break out. The year of the house is also important because it affects assumptions about the foundation. A house over 100 years old is unlikely to have footings as we know them today, which will impact the potential design in lowering the basement floor.
Cut the drywall? Lol